tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post4018789823608174183..comments2024-03-19T02:31:02.140-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: My VDARE.com column on Haiti vs. Barbados and the Dominican RepublicUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55309936299490916742010-01-21T03:18:05.567-08:002010-01-21T03:18:05.567-08:00You take it for granted that that part of that isl...<i>You take it for granted that that part of that island is *theirs". Why should, or would, any people hold themselves to one particular piece of land? That is for losers and a sure way to receive the Darwin award.</i><br /><br />Holding themselves to land they consider "theirs", fighting to the death for it, has been a motivation for humanity for much of history. Guess you know better though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-53065247190712214852010-01-19T19:36:57.840-08:002010-01-19T19:36:57.840-08:00"I meant NO slavery you fool. Just like there..."I meant NO slavery you fool. Just like there was NO slavery in Quebec."<br /><br />Buddy, with all possible respect, get some old textbooks and use your head. <br /><br />Quebec: Massive empty land mass from which people can run off and never be found, four month growing season, little in the way of agriculture that can't be grown in France anyway, fishing, hunting, fur trapping economy.<br /><br />Haiti: Isolated island, 12 month growing season, sugar, cocoa, coffee, exotic fruits, etc. that demand high labor and cannot be grown in France.<br /><br />Now which one is better off settled by a few hundred fishermen, trappers and their wives, and which is better off assigned to a rich guy to bring in slaves and work the land.<br /><br />The reason the WhiteMan brought slaves into the Caribbean is because it was a good business decision. It really isn't that complicated.Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41124100895006219522010-01-19T18:29:22.414-08:002010-01-19T18:29:22.414-08:00In the early 90s, blacks were 30 million. In aroun...<i>In the early 90s, blacks were 30 million. In around 17 yrs, they became 40 million!! They expanded by 35% in that short period!!</i><br /><br />Black birth rates are about replacement level. Also, we get immigration from the Caribbean and Africa. The black population is similar to Argentina's in its size and age structure.corvinusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45368263250717397822010-01-19T18:23:24.203-08:002010-01-19T18:23:24.203-08:00"Alot of them seem to have appreciably high c..."Alot of them seem to have appreciably high crime rates, but still pale compared to Haiti."<br /><br />And to repeat for a third time. Port au Prince is chaos but there are many small cities in Haiti that are extremely safe and orderly. If you don't believe me, look into Jacmel. <br /><br />This will probably be too inconvenient to Steve's worldview for him to look into.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-77865834216488439522010-01-19T17:05:36.961-08:002010-01-19T17:05:36.961-08:00Selective migration like the case of the settlemen...Selective migration like the case of the settlement of Barbados isn't that likely. Many people overlook that literally not a single other black majority country or territory in the carribean, or any other with a significant black population is as remotely bad as Haiti. Alot of them seem to have appreciably high crime rates, but still pale compared to Haiti.<br /><br />Jamaica has awful crime, but it's economic status and living standards are worlds above Haiti.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73689125427693402202010-01-19T16:24:04.492-08:002010-01-19T16:24:04.492-08:00"Indeed, all of Africa may be better off if, ..."Indeed, all of Africa may be better off if, instead of nations, there were only city-states or aggregates made up of 100,000 to 500,000 people. It may be easier to manage things that way for blacks."<br /><br />Of course it would be easier.<br /><br />Any country that doesn't have the capacity or the social/political and economic infrastructure to feed its people would be better off with a smaller population. The same would hold true if we were talking about whites. <br /><br />"So, per capita GDP is less instructive than mean GDP."<br /><br />I think you mean Per Capita income? The average amount of money that residents of a country recieve, as opposed to the average value of what they produce. GDP Per Capita is essentially the same thing as "mean" GDP.Marlonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21172366580713652872010-01-19T10:07:02.940-08:002010-01-19T10:07:02.940-08:00Free birth control appeals to child-averse college...Free birth control appeals to child-averse college students, not to Third World nations where kids are the best social security net you'll ever have.<br /><br />The contracepting West and countries like China are facing "demographic winter" where aging populations place large burdens on the smaller cohort of young working people.The Unnamednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9071918321049613732010-01-19T09:38:37.948-08:002010-01-19T09:38:37.948-08:00The Blackadder Says:
Dahlia,
In the conclusion...The Blackadder Says: <br /><br />Dahlia, <br /><br />In the conclusion to his book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Misconception-Struggle-Control-Population/dp/0674034600/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263922682&sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">Fatal Misconception</a> Matthew Connelly compares the declines in birth rates in countries with strong population control programs to countries that did little to nothing on the issue, and finds no effect. The main correlate seems to be the female illiteracy rate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-88915324914841806432010-01-19T07:26:17.106-08:002010-01-19T07:26:17.106-08:00Melykin, don't forget Detroit was also a Frenc...Melykin, don't forget Detroit was also a French colony at one time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-20824542480864376632010-01-19T02:22:19.014-08:002010-01-19T02:22:19.014-08:00Reply to "truth";
As usual with your st...Reply to "truth";<br /><br />As usual with your stupidity you have misrepresented what I said.<br /><br />I meant NO slavery you fool. Just like there was NO slavery in Quebec.<br /><br />Quebec was a land of very harsh winters and no distinct advantage for agriculture. But the French there managed to create a self-sufficient economy. <br /><br />By the way they probably did work 16 hours a day too on their tiny farms. What do you think they did in the 17th and 18th centuries. Sit around and watch TV?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49905929051702424782010-01-19T01:15:40.698-08:002010-01-19T01:15:40.698-08:00Dominicans are mostly "black" by America...Dominicans are mostly "black" by American standards. Few Dominicans are as white looking as A-Rod.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-77526854467469549432010-01-18T23:53:25.609-08:002010-01-18T23:53:25.609-08:00"Based on the twin pillars of tourism and off..."Based on the twin pillars of tourism and offshore finance, the Bahamian economy has prospered since the 1950s."<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bahamas<br /><br />Off-shore finance? Hmm, seems like people running the show may not be blacks, just like the people really running the Indian Casinos are not Indians.cocktailnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-90589508743247891892010-01-18T23:50:03.021-08:002010-01-18T23:50:03.021-08:00http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Community
...<b>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Community<br /><br />But the fact of the matter is, most Caribbean islands are majority black, and most of them are capable of "holding their own", even Jamaica (under stable political conditions). Haiti is an exception. </b><br /><br />I wonder about some of these islands having per capita GDP of $18,000. Could it be that a few people are fabulously rich while most people are very poor? <br />If you have great concentration of wealth plus a relatively small overall population, that would make per capita GDP look impressive. <br />Suppose some tycoon in an island of 100,000 people owns 95% of the wealth. Suppose the total GDP is a $1 billion. Divide one billion by 100,000 and per capita GDP comes to $10,000. It seems like a decent sum, but keep in mind that most of the wealth is held by the tycoon. The actual per capita GDP of an average person on that island could be closer to $1,000. <br /><br />Suppose there's a near-identical island except that the population is 10,000,000 instead of 100,000. <br />Suppose it earns about the same amount of tourist money as the island with 100,000 people. It too has a tycoon who owns most of the wealth, and the national GDP also comes to $1 billion. But divide it by 10,000,000 and the per capita comes to a mere $100. <br /><br />So, it could be that a lot of people in the more successful Carribbean Islands aren't doing all that well. It's just that the smaller population makes the per capita GDP look better. And, since there are fewer people, it's manageable for the economy to provide basic services to most people. (A nation with one guy who makes a billion and 100,000 who are beggars will still have a per capita GDP of $10,000.)<br /><br />There was a lot of talk of the rise of Indonesian economy in the 80s, and the numbers did look impressive. But, it turned out that Chinese in Indonesia, though only 2% of the population, owned up to 75% of all the wealth--mostly by Chinese tycoons than your average Chinese. So, even as the per capita GDP rose, the fact remained that most people still remained mired in poverty. <br /><br />So, per capita GDP is less instructive than mean GDP.san soleilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-19799783408433112562010-01-18T23:25:42.537-08:002010-01-18T23:25:42.537-08:00"There is a chapter in Riccardo Orizio's ..."There is a chapter in Riccardo Orizio's Lost White Tribes: Journeys Among The Forgotten about Poles who settled in Haiti."<br /><br />Chalk up another one for the Polish jokebook.How many lightbulbs?noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-54768056259509796992010-01-18T23:23:40.726-08:002010-01-18T23:23:40.726-08:00Burmuda, the Virgin Islands and the Bahamas all ha...<i>Burmuda, the Virgin Islands and the Bahamas all have greater GDP Per Capita than the Dominican Republic. Do these countries have a greater percentage of mulattos and European descendants than the DR? <br /><br />HBD logic would lead one to believe that this must be the case. <br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Community<br /><br />But the fact of the matter is, most Caribbean islands are majority black, and most of them are capable of "holding their own", even Jamaica (under stable political conditions). Haiti is an exception.</i><br /><br />Carribbean islands with smaller populations are better off than Jamaica or Haiti. If tourism is main economy in this region, it alone may be able to sustain the peoples of Bermuda or Virgin Islands. It's easier for 300,000 to live off a tourist-derived economy than for a nation of nearly 9 million--like Haiti. <br /><br />Indeed, all of Africa may be better off if, instead of nations, there were only city-states or aggregates made up of 100,000 to 500,000 people. It may be easier to manage things that way for blacks. <br /><br />Are most of the hotels and resorts in the Carribbean owned and run by blacks, or are blacks generally employees and lower-level managers working for white owned and run enterprises? <br /><br />My guess is most of the wealth in the region comes from rich Western tourists. Maybe a black population of 300,000 is less likely to turn into an angry and enraged(and destructive)political force than a black population of several millions. <br /><br />Or, maybe black populations that 'don't make sudden moves' are better able to attract white tourists and money. Maybe smaller black populations tend to make fewer 'sudden moves'.where is my coconut?noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9179476893122213662010-01-18T23:09:19.017-08:002010-01-18T23:09:19.017-08:00Best piece I've seen on Haiti. Ten thousand NG...Best piece I've seen on Haiti. Ten thousand NGOs! Astonishing. <br /><br />One additional way in which Haiti is like Africa: its farming still relies on the hoe or digging stick, rather than the plow. Raises the question of why they are still stuck with such unproductive technology.<br /><br />But why is Haiti, though poor, somewhat richer than much of Africa? I suspect its because Haiti gets more remittances from migrants and more aid (all those NGOs) thanks to being closer to the US.Harmonious Jimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-32732942778110175012010-01-18T21:29:34.196-08:002010-01-18T21:29:34.196-08:00Again. Knowing how some parts of Haiti like Jacme...Again. Knowing how some parts of Haiti like Jacmel are nice. This article is stupid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-7417883450409352672010-01-18T20:06:59.792-08:002010-01-18T20:06:59.792-08:00No, Truth, Trujillo is a black man, so he would be...No, Truth, Trujillo is a black man, so he would be in the same pantheon as Mugabe, L'Ouverture, Chaka Zulu, and Dessalines, all heroes of their respective peoples. Honored for slaughtering their enemies and ignored for butchering their own kind in even bigger numbers.Big billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-18651302307494497422010-01-18T18:33:35.978-08:002010-01-18T18:33:35.978-08:00"Had France treated Haiti like Quebec and jus..."Had France treated Haiti like Quebec and just sent good hard-working French families there,"<br /><br />Yes, good hard-working French families that wanted to work 16 hours a day without pay and have their children born into slavery...I think it would have worked great!<br /><br />"Though it has a lot of blacks, it is a totalitarian police state ruled by iron-fisted whites...Maybe the problem with mulatto rule in Haiti was it wasn't totalistic enough.<br /><br />You have seen photos of Fidel Castro, right?<br /><br />"Presumably, it will, sooner or later, or they wouldn't keep printing the same headlines, but as far as I can tell from reading the fine print, as of Sunday night, this hadn't yet gone through the formality of taking place:"<br /><br />Yeah, kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it? (well scratch that, maybe not.)Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-15544210760279041162010-01-18T18:12:22.347-08:002010-01-18T18:12:22.347-08:00Burmuda, the Virgin Islands and the Bahamas all ha...Burmuda, the Virgin Islands and the Bahamas all have greater GDP Per Capita than the Dominican Republic. Do these countries have a greater percentage of mulattos and European descendants than the DR? <br /><br />HBD logic would lead one to believe that this must be the case. <br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Community<br /><br />But the fact of the matter is, most Caribbean islands are majority black, and most of them are capable of "holding their own", even Jamaica (under stable political conditions). Haiti is an exception.Marlonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56053082863211017052010-01-18T17:49:08.090-08:002010-01-18T17:49:08.090-08:00About white immigration : Around the turn of the 2...<i>About white immigration : Around the turn of the 20th century there was a small but extremely influential german community in haiti. They've mixed into the local mulatto community but their names are still around.</i><br /><br />There is a chapter in Riccardo Orizio's <i>Lost White Tribes: Journeys Among The Forgotten</i> about Poles who settled in Haiti. (The two pictures in the book of some of them in the 1990s show some of them to be indistinguishable from the locals, others look lighter skinned). These 'Poles' are the descendants of soldiers sent to Poland by Napoleon's brother-in-law General Leclerc in the early 19th century to put down the slave rebellion. According to Orizio legend has it that these Poles deserted the French revolutionary army and helped Dessalines overthrow French rule. For that reason they are mentioned in the Haitian constitution of 1805:<br /><br />Article No.12 - <i>'No white person, of whatever nationality, may set foot upon this territory as a land owner or master, nor may such persons in future acquire any property whatsoever.'</i><br /><br />Article No.13 - <i>'The preceding article does not apply to white women who have been naturalised by the government, nor to their eventual offspring. The provisions of this article also include those of Polish and German birth whom the government has naturalised'</i>Matranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22705166089921635952010-01-18T17:35:20.487-08:002010-01-18T17:35:20.487-08:00"Had France treated Haiti like Quebec and jus..."Had France treated Haiti like Quebec and just sent good hard-working French families there, rather then allowing plantation-style agriculture sustained by slave labor how different things would be today. Haiti would be a nice little tropical Quebec and not a basketcase."<br />-----------------------<br /><br />It would probably have turned out more like Argentina (at best), but that would still a LOT better than how Haiti is now, of course.<br /><br />Quebec is actually a bit of a basket case itself compared to the rest of Canada. It has a lot of corruption. The other provinces regard Quebec as a spoiled, indulged child--always demanding more than its fair share, and usually getting it. If it was a separate country, it would be a must worse basket case than it is. <br /><br />For some reason almost every place that was colonized by France seems to have turned out much worse than similar places colonized by other countries, even by Spain. Even Lousiana seems to be a bit of a basket case compared to the other states.Melykinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-4636509136173504832010-01-18T17:18:47.891-08:002010-01-18T17:18:47.891-08:00"Not really. Have you noticed how the usa bla..."Not really. Have you noticed how the usa black population is not growing much ?"<br /><br />In the early 90s, blacks were 30 million. In around 17 yrs, they became 40 million!! They expanded by 35% in that short period!!honeypienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26763606125570507532010-01-18T16:44:03.523-08:002010-01-18T16:44:03.523-08:00Blumenthal said...
" ...faster genetic chang...Blumenthal said... <br />" ...faster genetic change are more likely the larger the population..."<br />...<br />Right, but don't you also need certain cultural constraints so that more productive people have more children.<br />---<br />I agree with you that a greater amount of mutations isn' all that matters. There has to be a mechanism which allows for normatively "positive" alleles to increase in the population. Because if all we get is more and more variation, then maybe populations get rewarded with an increases in the frequency of very violent, ultra masculine people. Not a good outcome, though it is an example of evolution.<br />---<br /><br />Dahlia said... <br />"I don't buy population control as a solution for Haiti's problems. Barbados, for example, as a higher population density than Haiti. <br /><br />---<br />Yes but Barbados seems to have left the malthusian world, while haiti is trapped in it. In the malthusian world, too much population is always a problem because the magic of modern economic growth is not happening. Thus, in its present destitute state, haiti could only be helped by population control, imho. <br />---<br />Bring a 100,000 Haitians into the US, and they'll double every 20 yrs. The 100,000 will grow to 3.5 million in a 100 yrs<br />---<br />Not really. Have you noticed how the usa black population is not growing much ? Haitians would converge to the black usa averages of their respective social groups : middle class and higher folks would be having very few kids and a few ghetto rats would be popping them out in batches of 5. But that whole having 11 kids thing would be gone in 1 generation Imho.<br />---<br /><br />Anonymous said... <br />This is a article that shows the limitation of Internet research. <br /><br />Haiti outside of Port-au-Prince can be very different. I've been to a city about 50km south called Jacmel. It is incredibly safe. Crime is so under control that I once saw a Haitian girl in a mini skirt walking alone to the club at 1am. It is also the cleanest city I've seen in the third world. (Search for pictures on flickr.)<br /><br />The orderliness of Jacmel throws in doubt far fetched theories about slave selection from 200 years ago. <br />----<br />Please choose a nickname anonymous. Interesting stuff. One thing that I've always heard about Jacmel though is that it was a mulatto town, basically. is that what you observed ? The south of haiti has always been considered more mulatto and the north more purely african.ogunsironhttp://www.google.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-11289349384242438432010-01-18T16:01:46.492-08:002010-01-18T16:01:46.492-08:00Steve,
There is another problem with the "pop...Steve,<br />There is another problem with the "population control" outlook to fix problems that has always bothered me. It reminds me so much of the Abortion Cut Crime theory in that it assumes no impact to culture. It's affected our culture and is still controversial after 80 years (when mainline Protestants accepted birth control), but how does it affect a third world culture? Whatever it does for us, amplify it for them seems to be a pretty good rule.<br /><br />I tried finding the study that Agnostic discussed, but could not. Hopefully, he can shed light on this. My memory is that two similar third world peoples (different country regions?) were compared. One was inundated with free birth control and educational materials, counselors, etc. The other was left completely alone. When they were examined later (when?) Their birth rates still matched each others.<br /><br />My take, in essence, is that everything they're doing from a genetic point of view and to a lesser extent, a personal point of view, is perfectly rational. You take it for granted that that part of that island is *theirs". Why should, or would, any people hold themselves to one particular piece of land? That is for losers and a sure way to receive the Darwin award. Due to their low I.Q.s they do not have the luxury we have of sustaining the land they live on; they have their own intellectual tools for dealing with this problem: make a boat and leave.Dahlianoreply@blogger.com