tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post4342148237103298280..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Positive ThinkingUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-19225843062828841192010-01-04T16:39:18.326-08:002010-01-04T16:39:18.326-08:00The difficulty with positive psychology mirrors fa...The difficulty with positive psychology mirrors failed attempts at socialism and communism: It is the idea that we can systematically direct people towards happiness, health, & wealth. <br /><br />In contrast, science is more effective at identifying and solving problems, a process that involves analysis. When you lose this deficit-model - which is something positive psychology eschews - you're in sketchy territory. <br /><br />It's one thing to solve problems; it's another to point humanity in the right direction. I'd argue that the former is much more rewarding than the latter, b/c given the tools & conditions to succeed, people will thrive just fine on their own.kerrjachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14446419956533734149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1658712285452618042010-01-04T11:39:47.031-08:002010-01-04T11:39:47.031-08:00I haven't read Bright-Sided yet, but I don'...I haven't read <i>Bright-Sided</i> yet, but I don't think she's arguing against the basic idea that people with positive attitudes tend to be happier and do better than people who dwell on the negative. (And I would put people like Sailer and Derbyshire on the positive side of the scale, because while they may be pessimistic about certain things like societal change, they've got a light-hearted attitude about it. They don't fret in the way that, say, your average liberal frets about global warming.)<br /><br />What goes much further than that, and what I think Ehrehreich is responding to, is the prosperity gospel stuff that became so popular in the last couple decades. It says positive thinking doesn't just <i>tend</i> to produce positive results, but does so like clockwork. It says if you think positive and say your affirmations and all that stuff, your life <i>will</i> be good, and if you worry all the time, bad stuff will happen to you. The universe is seen a big transistor: increase the positive charge on one side and the positive charge on the other side increases proportionally. Therefore, it's okay to take on a huge mortgage that you can't afford, because by thinking and acting like you can afford it, you <i>cause</i> it to be affordable.<br /><br />This stuff sold really well when the economy was growing and credit was cheap and easy, and most people were going to become more prosperous (at least as defined by owning more stuff) whether the positive thinking worked or not. Now that many people are becoming less prosperous, it's going to be a harder sell. <br /><br />After all, if you got a no-money-down mortgage because you thought positive about it (or as some preachers put it, God wanted you to have a house), then your foreclosure must mean you stopped thinking positive and started asking for a foreclosure. So either you have to blame yourself; or if you know your thinking didn't suddenly switch from positive to negative, then you have to admit the whole thing was bunk from the start.Aaronhttp://www.butteredham.com/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-80464608692931842962010-01-03T20:09:38.012-08:002010-01-03T20:09:38.012-08:00"Just saw a couple of good quotes from JFK in..."<i>Just saw a couple of good quotes from JFK in the latest Esquire magazine, like this: '...the problems are more difficult than I imagine them to be. The responsibilities placed on the US are greater than I imagined ... greater limitations upon our ability to bring about a favorable result than I had imagined...' Try giving that speech to the neocons and their followers."</i><br /><br />Well, Adlai Stevenson was probably the most pessimistic candidate of any major US party since the war. And we know what happened to him. Twice.<br /><br />Here he is on the subject of getting the 1952 nomination - he was so relentlessly downbeat, his more sensitive hearers must almost have wanted to top themselves:<br /><br /><i>"I accept </i>[said Stevenson]<i> your nomination and your program.<br /><br />I should have preferred to hear those words uttered by a stronger, a wiser, a better man than myself. But, after listening to the President's speech, I even feel better about myself. None of you, my friends, can wholly appreciate what is in my heart. I can only hope that you understand my words. They will be few.<br /><br />I have not sought the honor you have done me. I could not seek it, because I aspired to another office, which was the full measure of my ambition, and one does not treat the highest office within the gift of the people of Illinois as an alternative or as a consolation prize.<br /><br />I would not seek your nomination for the Presidency, because the burdens of that office stagger the imagination. Its potential for good or evil, now and in the years of our lives, smothers exultation and converts vanity to prayer.<br /><br />I have asked the Merciful Father -- the Father of us all -- to let this cup pass from me, but from such dreaded responsibility one does not shrink in fear, in self-interest, or in false humility. So, 'If this cup may not pass from me, except I drink it, Thy will be done'."</i><br /><br />Pessimism, rumination, <i>plus</i> a New Testament allusion near the end. We can't be allowed to have all those in 2010, can we?R J Stovenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67921799139614567462010-01-03T01:29:12.222-08:002010-01-03T01:29:12.222-08:00Yes, depressive thinking can sharpen awareness (w...Yes, depressive thinking can sharpen awareness (when taken in moderation). But it lowers the will to take action. <br /><br />The key is to cultivate resilience, not empty positive thinking. <br /><br />(Turning to David D's off topic statement that "there are two main camps of theology within Christianity in America today: Arminianism and Calvinism". <br /><br />I think he means "within Protestantism".)Felixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-16678761291739094462010-01-02T13:30:23.626-08:002010-01-02T13:30:23.626-08:00Without any firm evidence I'd bet that this ha...<i>Without any firm evidence I'd bet that this happy talk phenomenon has roots in the Jesus-is-your-best-friend attitude of Christianity.</i><br /><br />Which Christianity?<br /><br /><br /><i>The Five Points of Calvinism<br /><br /><br /> There are two mains camps of theology within Christianity in America today: Arminianism and Calvinism. Calvinism is a system of biblical interpretation taught by John Calvin. Calvin lived in France in the 1500's at the time of Martin Luther who sparked the Reformation. <br /><br /> The system of Calvinism adheres to a very high view of scripture and seeks to derive its theological formulations based solely on God’s word. It focuses on God’s sovereignty, stating that God is able and willing by virtue of his omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence, to do whatever He desires with His creation. It also maintains that within the Bible are the following teachings: That God, by His sovereign grace predestines people into salvation; that Jesus died only for those predestined; that God regenerates the individual where he is then able and wants to choose God; and that it is impossible for those who are redeemed to lose their salvation.<br /><br /> Arminianism, on the other hand, maintains that God predestined, but not in an absolute sense. Rather, He looked into the future to see who would pick him and then He chose them. Jesus died for all peoples' sins who have ever lived and ever will live, not just the Christians. Each person is the one who decides if he wants to be saved or not. And finally, it is possible to lose your salvation (some arminians believe you cannot lose your salvation). <br /><br /> Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.<br /><br />Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)<br />Unconditional Election <br />Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)<br />Irresistible Grace<br />Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)<br /><br />...</i><br /><br />http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htmDavid Davenportnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-11339718857162340872010-01-02T12:10:15.337-08:002010-01-02T12:10:15.337-08:00When the Dear Leader was giving his Afghan speech ...When the Dear Leader was giving his Afghan speech at West Point,several peole,like Limbaugh,commented on the seeming boredom,indifference and not altogether welcoming attitide of the cadets to the One. Someone said he turned off the cadets by talking in a(somewhat) pessimistic tone,and if he had mentioned FREEDOM,the cadets wouldve come alive and started cheering. Bush,whatever his IQ,etc.had the rep for being stupid,I think,because thats exactly what he would do. His policies were not wel thought out,or well explained,--or explained at all!,and the limits of what we could do not addressed.He just yelled,"Freedom!Democracy!!" and the suckers started applauding. I once heard some 'Southern Man' call a talk show,talking about how his son is over there--fighting for freedom.Well-meaning suckers like this constitute a huge segment of the Red nation.Thats why a boob like Sarh Palin,with the flag of Israel on her wall,(eyes roll)is seen as some kind of Red answer to Obama. The positive thinkers make ya feel good,but the negatives are more Reality-based. I am anti-Obama,of course,but his look at all sides,nuanced view is not all bad.I mean,he isnt TOTALLY anti-American,right? he doesnt want to wreck everything,does he?? Just saw a couple of good quotes from JFK in the latest Esquire magazine,like this: "...the problems are more difficult than I imagine them to be.The responsibilities placed on the US are greater than I imagined...greater limitations upon our ability to bring about a favorable result than I had imagined..." Try giving that speech to the neocons and their followers. Let sarah give THAT speech!!A younger Kennedy also had this to say:"I have just had an escapade. Got a fuck and a suck in a Mexican hoarhouse for $.65 so am feeling very fit and clean..." Make of that what you will.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87019498504898551762010-01-02T08:44:56.840-08:002010-01-02T08:44:56.840-08:00I have a couple of living, breathing pep talks - m...I have a couple of living, breathing pep talks - my beautiful little daughters!Dutch Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02687679491743923216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-77744633132345923702010-01-02T07:40:29.553-08:002010-01-02T07:40:29.553-08:00I grew up in an evangelical household... Without a...<i>I grew up in an evangelical household... Without any firm evidence...</i> <br /><br />What firmer evidence would you need than growing up in an evangelical household?<br /><br />And, more generally, do you suppose that Christians always seem so happy because...<br /><br /><br /><br />[WAIT FOR IT NOW]<br /><br /><br /><br />[DRUMROLL PLEASE]<br /><br /><br /><br />...they ARE happy?<br /><br />Naahhh, that would be too obvious of an explanation - they must be faking it somehow.<br /><br /></CYNICISM>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49139846612223266442010-01-01T17:30:51.319-08:002010-01-01T17:30:51.319-08:00"Boy, it's depressing to read about the d..."Boy, it's depressing to read about the depression of atheists.<br /><br />Y'all need to cheer up: God loves you."<br /><br />I grew up in an evangelical household and the happy talk is part and parcel of the modern protestant experience. Christian book stores are jam-packed with self-help books that encourage what would otherwise be New Age mysticism if there weren't some bible verses thrown in for justification. Without any firm evidence I'd bet that this happy talk phenomenon has roots in the Jesus-is-your-best-friend attitude of Christianity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6867498980238999992010-01-01T16:33:46.022-08:002010-01-01T16:33:46.022-08:00An aphorism attributed to the US Marine Corps -- t...An aphorism attributed to the US Marine Corps -- the exact wording varies:<br /><br />"Always be civil to other people, and also always be ready to kill them if necessary."David Davenportnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-91374420104620773542010-01-01T16:17:13.809-08:002010-01-01T16:17:13.809-08:00Speaking of getting through cancer, I did it by us...Speaking of getting through cancer, I did it by using positive thinking and believing in a nonsectarian cosmic force some call God. It worked, and works.<br /><br />Rationality was made for man, not the reverse. If rationality tells you that you should crawl in a hole and die, that's when it's not doing its intended evolutionary job. Bring out the optimism on those occasions.<br /><br />But yeah, to walk around with an idiot grin on your face can be sickening. And no - it isn't really optimism the flat-earthers are guilty of, it's conscious dishonesty and nihilism in a funky blend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87796620536487221292010-01-01T15:36:39.494-08:002010-01-01T15:36:39.494-08:00I recommend "We Are Doomed" by John Derb...I recommend "We Are Doomed" by John Derbyshire. An antidote to mindless optimism and a pretty good diagnosis of what ails us.Grumpy Old Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06885003732996511989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-13409336132103629752010-01-01T10:51:43.446-08:002010-01-01T10:51:43.446-08:00Prager gets a lot of stuff right - he's far an...Prager gets a lot of stuff right - he's far and above the best radio personality on the air, imo. He's particularly good and dismantling the left. He does, however, have a huge blind spot when it comes to recognizing that things like intelligence cause systematic differences in how groups will achieve in America. He greets any talk of IQ with a passionate 5 minute rant about how it doesn't matter and it's a stupid idea. Very weird for a guy who always says "first we should tell the truth". This is a truth he ignores, and if he were forced to asdmit it he would say "so what?".<br /><br />Dennis, if you're out there, there is a mountain of iterature on IQ that explains TONS about group/racial/ethnic achievement gaps in America. It's an eye opening topic. Start with your friend Charles Murray's book "The Bell Curve". You have to actually read it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78132947331085524602010-01-01T09:20:09.260-08:002010-01-01T09:20:09.260-08:00Having finally seen the Coen Brothers' A Serio...<i>Having finally seen the Coen Brothers' A Serious Man last night, which is like a less funny version of Curb Your Enthusiasm in which mild-mannered physics professor Larry Gopnik is relentlessly abused by the spontaneity of human interactions with people like Ms. Ehrenreich, I'd say that a little social smiling isn't such a bad thing.</i><br /><br />Uh, no. A Serious Man is about evil and the inability of a lunkheaded optimist (a scientist) to recognize its existence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-25852330897211014092010-01-01T08:23:28.690-08:002010-01-01T08:23:28.690-08:00Boy, it's depressing to read about the depress...Boy, it's depressing to read about the depression of atheists.<br /><br />Y'all need to cheer up: God loves you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-51449940523883798612010-01-01T07:26:31.443-08:002010-01-01T07:26:31.443-08:00I think it's a little more complicated than th...I think it's a little more complicated than that. You're assuming the rich control their organizations and can shape every aspect like an author writing a book.<br /><br />In reality, they have control over their immediate environment composed of their direct reports...division heads, and such, all of whom are trying to suck up and please their superiors. The boss can't look at every bathroom stall in every factory, even if he actually cared about the company (which seems rare these days) and is dependent on his chief financial officer, chief information officer, and so on, all of whom are trying to get on his good side. And since the most effective way to advance is to tell people what they want to hear...<br /><br />It's not so much a diabolical conspiracy against the white race, working class, or whoever, as people trying to take what they can get, and whoever's less powerful or not organized as a unitary group gets screwed.SFGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34737813861622877962010-01-01T02:56:24.377-08:002010-01-01T02:56:24.377-08:00Reading some of the posts at Ms. Ehrenreich's ...Reading some of the posts at Ms. Ehrenreich's forum I'm reminded of the post-menopausal shrews at my work who gossip and complain all day. Until now I have avoided them as much as I've been able. I guess I'm missing out.lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-46315646157279667022010-01-01T00:20:56.125-08:002010-01-01T00:20:56.125-08:00Happy talk may not help someone to live longer, bu...Happy talk may not help someone to live longer, but if they die with a smile on their face, then that's worth something, isn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-76957809958426744812010-01-01T00:08:37.150-08:002010-01-01T00:08:37.150-08:00I remember way back in the early 70s, fresh from P...I remember way back in the early 70s, fresh from Psych 101 classes and from talks with my high IQ friends taking psychology, all of us gung ho on the idea that such study could lead to a panacea for humankind that would hopefully be spearheaded by that "science". It was a belief held by many in that field at the time. Of course, it turned out to be a quixotic attempt to find the answers to very difficult problems that we humans are afflicted with.<br /><br />It's a noble aim, one that the "enlightened" person seeks to obtain. But it's a very elusive target. Personally, the best tips I've received over my decades on the planet have been:<br /><br />- floss and brush your teeth<br />- eat well<br />- keep moving, don't settle in<br />- exercise<br />- keep expectations reasonable<br />- and yes, don't be whiny<br /><br />Not a very sophisticated list I admit, but I've yet to see many others that offer more benefit. Personally, I'm a bit disillusioned; perhaps I'm not giving all these mental gurus the credit they deserve.<br /><br />Oh yeah, reading Sailer has a certain pragmatic benefit also.Figgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11471054232094209230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26098763023047162082010-01-01T00:00:50.484-08:002010-01-01T00:00:50.484-08:00What or who did you use to bring yourself under hy...What or who did you use to bring yourself under hypnosis?Truth(er)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-32748690162407542642009-12-31T22:29:04.031-08:002009-12-31T22:29:04.031-08:00"I could only imagine myself responding to a ..."I could only imagine myself responding to a statistical argument."<br /><br />Well, that's the point of hypnosis -- the statistics were against me.Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23013748468991295102009-12-31T22:19:20.107-08:002009-12-31T22:19:20.107-08:00Hypnotism is very effective in childbirth as well....Hypnotism is very effective in childbirth as well. I am a cynical, negative kind of person, but I also wanted to avoid experiencing labor pain as much as possible, so my cynicism took a backseat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-74704661943387291802009-12-31T22:13:37.956-08:002009-12-31T22:13:37.956-08:00How did you come to try hypnosis? I think that...How did you come to try hypnosis? I think that's worth a post right there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44255398342125893592009-12-31T22:01:27.657-08:002009-12-31T22:01:27.657-08:00I crafted a personalized pep talk for my hypnotist...<em> I crafted a personalized pep talk for my hypnotist to give me when I was under.</em><br /><br />You made me wonder what my pep talk would be in such a situation. I could only imagine myself responding to a statistical argument. Get the facts and some peer reviewed papers that'll show I'm ok. I'm far too cynical and dare I say rational for anything else.Richard Hostehttp://hbdbooks.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-17259392189900185002009-12-31T21:06:17.220-08:002009-12-31T21:06:17.220-08:00I wonder if Barbara Ehrenreich mentions the findin...I wonder if Barbara Ehrenreich mentions the findings - 30 years back - of Lauren B. Alloy and Lyn Yvonne Abramson ("Judgment of contingency in depressed and nondepressed students: Sadder but wiser?", <i>Journal of Experimental Psychology</i>, Vol. 108, pp. 441-485). These findings created quite a stir at the time they were published (1979), and therapists like the best-selling author Martin Seligman refer to them. <br /><br />Alloy and Abramson discovered, in the experiments they did, that pessimistic patients are actually better at perceiving the nature of their environment than optimistic patients are. The outcome is called "depressive realism". (Yes, it is perfectly compatible with smiling, being courteous, and the avoidance of outright bellyaching.)<br /><br />Of course, you will not find Alloy and Abramson appearing as guests on Oprah. Depressive realism runs entirely counter to the post-Christian West's civic religion of Happy Talk. How much more Happy Talk the post-Christian West can actually afford is, <i>naturellement</i>, a different issue.<br /><br />A happy (and depressive-realistic) 2010 to Steve Sailer, BTW.R J Stovenoreply@blogger.com