tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post4970333949853738189..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: The Harry Dexter White Award for Economists' EthicsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-58266726758201845852013-03-25T21:06:53.187-07:002013-03-25T21:06:53.187-07:00""The Morgenthau Plan and the Problem of...<i>""The Morgenthau Plan and the Problem of Policy Perversion", Anthony Kubek.<br /><br />...<br /><br />Never before in American history had an unelected bureaucracy of faceless, "fourth floor" officials exercised such arbitrary power over the future of nations..."</i><br /><br /><br />Perhaps the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans" rel="nofollow">Office of Special Plans</a>, a like-minded group in the Pentagon that stovepiped the intelligence leading up to the Iraq war, comes close.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1285271946130661352013-03-24T19:44:45.875-07:002013-03-24T19:44:45.875-07:00Here's a backgrounder on the Morgenthau plan a...Here's a backgrounder on the Morgenthau plan and Henry White's (large) role:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v09/v09p287_Kubek.html" rel="nofollow">"The Morgenthau Plan and the Problem of Policy Perversion"</a>, Anthony Kubek.<br /><br />From the conclusion:<br /><br /><i>"The concentration of Communist sympathizers in the Treasury Department is now a matter of public record. ...<br /><br />Never before in American history had an unelected bureaucracy of faceless, "fourth floor" officials exercised such arbitrary power over the future of nations as did Harry Dexter White and his associates in the Department of the Treasury under Henry Morgenthau, Jr. What they attempted to do in their curious twisting of American ideals, and how close they came to complete success, is demonstrated in the Morgenthau Diaries, which I had the privilege of examining and which were published by the Subcommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, in 1967."</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23700827135554060112013-03-24T19:36:29.122-07:002013-03-24T19:36:29.122-07:00Project Venona, the crypto project so secret it wa...<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venona_project" rel="nofollow">Project Venona</a>, the crypto project so secret it wasn't even known to American presidents Roosevelt and Truman, nailed White:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/138847/benn-steil/red-white?page=show" rel="nofollow">"The code cracking took place over decades, and the first Venona cable identifying White as a Soviet mole was not known to the FBI until late 1950. In total, 18 deciphered cables refer to White, by various code names, all dated between March 16, 1944, and January 8, 1946."</a><br /><br />See also the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Dexter_White#Venona_project" rel="nofollow">Venona section in the wikipedia artile on White</a>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-38049301571692978432013-03-24T19:24:11.664-07:002013-03-24T19:24:11.664-07:00"Is this true?"
The source of that text...<i>"Is this true?"</i><br /><br />The source of that text is the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Dexter_White#Treasury_Department" rel="nofollow">3rd paragraph of the Treasury Department section</a> on White, so apparently, yes. This section is based on a couple of books, see the citations in the article. Also:<br /><br /><i>"The Nazis and Joseph Goebbels were ecstatic at the revelations, using the Morgenthau Plan as a propaganda coup to encourage their troops and citizens to fight on and to nullify emerging German criticism of the war and arguments for a separate peace with Western governments."<br /><br />"... Morgenthau still did manage to influence the resulting occupation... which forbade activities designed for economic reconstruction..."</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30176715082021651722013-03-23T02:35:07.324-07:002013-03-23T02:35:07.324-07:00Silver.
You simply do not know what you are talkin...Silver.<br />You simply do not know what you are talking about. All you are doing is making a fool of yourself by trying to defend untrue statements.<br />The current 2008 depression is the worst in recorded British history in terms of lost output. If you don't believe me look at any number of online sources.And it is a depression and not a recession, since it's gone on for so damned long.<br /> The English have had sub-replacement fertility since at least 1972. It is safe to say that ALL population growth in the UK is down to immigration and edscendants of immigrants. The last decade saw the biggest absolute increase in UK population ever recorded.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-7996445387502014762013-03-23T00:46:54.309-07:002013-03-23T00:46:54.309-07:00Look, Silver, I actually live in the UK.
I have a...<i>Look, Silver, I actually live in the UK.</i><br /><br />I have access to the same statistics you do so I don't see that this makes any real difference.<br /><br />You used the phrase "economic performance." In terms of economic performance, there have been periods of stagnation much longer than five or six years in Britain in the last 200 or so years (since reliable records have been available). 1900 to 1910 saw essentially no (per capita) growth, for example. In terms of unemployment, the recent recession (silly emotionalism to call it a "depression") has been much less harmful than the what occurred during the early Thatcher years. <br /><br />Immigration leaped up tremendously the past decade, true, but it was an illusion that it was "controlled" prior to this. A higher rate will cause displacement sooner, but a lower immigration rate will eventually achieve the very same effect. "Control," if it's to mean anything, would surely require the ability to prevent such displacement, but the authorities have been adamant throughout that the British simply must be ethnically displaced thus immigration must continue. <br /><br />Attempting to tie this displacement immigration to economic woes is tricky, however, since other countries who have had similar (or greater) inflows/displacement, such as Australia or Sweden, haven't experienced anywhere near the same economic turmoil.<br /><br />Lastly, I don't anything about the UK's population having been in a "slight decline" at any point the last fifty years. Really, when you overstate your case like this you have the opposite of the desired effect on any interlocutors. Even if they're concerned about similar goings on, overstatement simply turns them off (as they reflect on just what sort of loons or kooks they're associating themselves with).Silvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-58821489241994698492013-03-22T11:12:36.599-07:002013-03-22T11:12:36.599-07:00Is this true?
"Harry Dexter White was born...Is this true? <br /><br /><a href="http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/138847/benn-steil/red-white?page=show" rel="nofollow"><br />"Harry Dexter White was born in Boston, Massachusetts, the seventh and youngest child of Jewish Lithuanian immigrants. He was appointed assistant to Henry Morgenthau, Jr., the Secretary of the Treasury, to act as liaison between the Treasury and the State Department on all matters bearing on foreign relations. White eventually came to be in charge of international matters for the Treasury, with access to extensive confidential information about the economic situation of the USA and its wartime allies.<br />According to Henry Morgenthau's son, White was the principal architect behind the Morgenthau (postwar) Plan which, as authored by White, was to take all industry out of Germany, eliminate its armed forces, and convert the country into an agricultural community, in the process eliminating most of Germany's economy and its ability to defend itself if attacked. Someone in White's department with access to details of the plan leaked it to the press, and White himself provided an advance copy to Soviet intelligence. Wikipedia."</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35799084394213826102013-03-22T06:38:54.304-07:002013-03-22T06:38:54.304-07:00In third world countries, wages are very low, but ...<i>In third world countries, wages are very low, but prices are lower also, so it is possible to live on those lower wages. When they immigrate, their wages increase, but they are also buying everything at a much higher price. So their is more money, but everything costs more.<br /><br />You could pass a law that doubles everyone's income and as a side-effect doubles prices, and then there you have more money in the economy.</i><br /><br />And that's the fundamental Keynesian delusion Cowen operates under, even though NYT has made him its house libertarian.<br /><br />You haven't increased the size of the pie, you've just cut more slices. That's why the working class hasn't gotten a raise in almost 40 years. So, they send their wives out to work, shop at Walmart, move to the exurbs, constantly roll over credit debt.<br /><br />All legedermain obscuring a basic reality: we aren't getting any richer.The Anti-Gnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04386593803225823789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78476797238113764612013-03-22T05:00:21.859-07:002013-03-22T05:00:21.859-07:00I'll listen to Cowen about where to get some o...I'll listen to Cowen about where to get some obscure foreign cuisine. About economics, not so much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-28192216639607069162013-03-22T04:22:34.645-07:002013-03-22T04:22:34.645-07:00So, by the same logic, if a family comes and squat...So, by the same logic, if a family comes and squats in your house, you need to take into account the benefits to the squatters - don't be narrow-minded and and think only about what it means for you. <br /><br />It's time citizens were guaranteed some kind of ownership over the nation state they and their ancestors built up.Robnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39371722982184519442013-03-22T01:11:09.881-07:002013-03-22T01:11:09.881-07:00Look, Silver, I actually live in the UK.
The curr...Look, Silver, I actually live in the UK.<br /><br />The current depression (which was sparked off by the MMM in 2007, has been the longest and deepest, in terms of potential output lost in modern recorded British economic history).<br /> The previous worst depression started in the 1920s, but output recovered faster and less wealth was lost.<br /> Actually, before Labour got in in 1997, immigration into Britain was under control due to the Thatcher and Major governments. It amounted to around 50,000 net per yera (still to high). It really, really sky-rocketed under the Blair regime around about year 2000, when those bastards were feeling their oats. In fact, the UK population was in slow decline up to around 2000, and since then it has put in its largest actual growth increment, in absolute terms, ever. This is entirely due to immigration.<br /> The era of mass, uncontrolled Blairite immigration to the UK and the economic disaster more or less coincide.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64449396643786598992013-03-21T20:19:16.323-07:002013-03-21T20:19:16.323-07:00"In third world countries, wages are very low..."In third world countries, wages are very low, but prices are lower also, so it is possible to live on those lower wages. When they immigrate, their wages increase, but they are also buying everything at a much higher price. So their is more money, but everything costs more."<br /><br />That is a very good point. It is very expensive to live a decent and dignified life in the US (and getting worse). Nod Nistramnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69490657134408234252013-03-21T20:14:54.885-07:002013-03-21T20:14:54.885-07:00The immigration moralists seem to be invoking some...The immigration moralists seem to be invoking some kind of "lifeboat" morality of immigration. I fail to see why people who live in very large lands (Africa is 20.4% of the entire land surface of the earth), need to come to our "lifeboat" which is sinking rapidly.Edo Lasaninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41473410402586314472013-03-21T19:50:11.132-07:002013-03-21T19:50:11.132-07:00Cowen has lost, badly, many an empirical argument ...<i>Cowen has lost, badly, many an empirical argument over immigration with his commenters, so now he's falling back to pure abstract moralizing for his failures over the years as an empiricist.</i><br /><br />Yeah, but look at it from Cowen's point of view. A few noble souls like him are all that stand between liberty and an inevitable, imminent nazi takeover. (Cos what else could restriction possibly be about?)Silvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26507252611223486592013-03-21T19:45:52.300-07:002013-03-21T19:45:52.300-07:00It has also put in, contemperoraneously with the i...<i>It has also put in, contemperoraneously with the immigration deluge, the worst ever economic performance since such statistics were gathered - which in England is a long time ago indeed.</i><br /><br />Well that's just not true. The immigration deluge didn't just begin five years ago. It began decades ago, and England put up <i>the best</i> economic performance since statistics were gathered in that time. <br /><br />The last five years hasn't been the worst economic performance since data were gathered either, fyi. <br /><br />Restrictionists have so many good arguments I don't get why you have to make things up. Let the other side resort to BS (which is all they do).Silvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-14191461537665240052013-03-21T17:06:51.532-07:002013-03-21T17:06:51.532-07:00"As a political football, this piece looks to..."As a political football, this piece looks to me like a punt."<br /><br />Cowen has lost, badly, many an empirical argument over immigration with his commenters, so now he's falling back to pure abstract moralizing for his failures over the years as an empiricist.<br /><br />Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1639211650427199802013-03-21T16:27:52.045-07:002013-03-21T16:27:52.045-07:00Until I looked White up on Wikipedia to write this...Until I looked White up on Wikipedia to write this, I assumed he was another Alger Hiss-like WASP. White was a huge figure in his day, but he doesn't get talked about much since.<br /><br />Although Wikipedia says he died of a heart attack 3 days after having to testify about his Communist contacts in 1948, it later says he died of an overdose of heart medicine -- i.e., it sounds like suicide.Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65449311465781315522013-03-21T15:54:33.349-07:002013-03-21T15:54:33.349-07:00I'm going to play God's advocate for a mom...I'm going to play God's advocate for a moment. The stunning part of this piece is the frank acknowledgment that immigration is good *if* you count the fortunes of the immigrants. He doesn't make the usual argument that immigration is great for Americans. On that count, he breaks ranks with other open borders economists regarding what you are supposed to say in public. He lays his cards on the table and says" "No, this might not be good for current Americans." As Cowen might ask: Is this Straussian? <br /><br />As a political football, this piece looks to me like a punt. dirknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52372342727155033322013-03-21T15:45:26.360-07:002013-03-21T15:45:26.360-07:00"Harry Dexter White was a jewish communist tr...<i>"Harry Dexter White was a jewish communist traitor."<br /><br />I don't think he was Jewish.</i><br /><br />Steve just mentioned this fact right here on his blog a few posts ago. If you won't take his word for it, maybe you'll listen to Wikpedia:<br /><br />"Harry Dexter White was born in Boston, Massachusetts, the seventh and youngest child of Jewish Lithuanian immigrants, Joseph Weit and Sarah Magilewski...."ben tillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-31955603804952151632013-03-21T14:29:37.370-07:002013-03-21T14:29:37.370-07:00"'rootless cosmopolitans' to denote t..."'rootless cosmopolitans' to denote those supposedly not loyal to their country".<br /><br />When I read his article I thought he was transparently using Cosmopolitan in the same context others would use the term globalist, the difference being the writer thinks it's a complimentary term.Marc Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15526121114466617234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39033899265216466542013-03-21T13:25:53.822-07:002013-03-21T13:25:53.822-07:00He ignores externalities, trade-offs, and the soci...He ignores externalities, trade-offs, and the social capital and institutions necessary for a system of property rights to properly function. But other than that, he's an economist.C. Van Carterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09918883799053031223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-48578679018857393612013-03-21T13:17:40.885-07:002013-03-21T13:17:40.885-07:00He's such a nonentity it “distresses” him a na...He's such a nonentity it “distresses” him a nation might want to protect its culture. C. Van Carterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09918883799053031223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-71810827885234764812013-03-21T12:11:37.037-07:002013-03-21T12:11:37.037-07:00"University of Central Florida an immigrant w..."University of Central Florida an immigrant with the last name of Seevakumaran<br />Or was he just another disgruntled minority?<br /><br />He was frustrated because he couldn't find the Hobbits.Anononymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-66689373278307706352013-03-21T12:02:44.541-07:002013-03-21T12:02:44.541-07:00The Anti-Gnostic:
"How did we miss that tens ...The Anti-Gnostic:<br /><i>"How did we miss that tens of trillions?!"<br />Insane people with insane ideas. Tens of trillions?</i><br /><br />He may have a point.<br /><br />In third world countries, wages are very low, but prices are lower also, so it is possible to live on those lower wages. When they immigrate, their wages increase, but they are also buying everything at a much higher price. So their is more money, but everything costs more.<br /><br />You could pass a law that doubles everyone's income and as a side-effect doubles prices, and then there you have more money in the economy.Anononymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56325189188068202182013-03-21T11:55:45.264-07:002013-03-21T11:55:45.264-07:00Tyler Cowen's stuff always reminds me of this ...Tyler Cowen's stuff always reminds me of this old, old joke:<br /><br /><i>Two economists were walking down the street one day when they passed two large piles of dog shit.<br /><br />The first economist said to the other, "I'll pay you $20,000 to eat one of those piles of shit." The second one agrees and chooses one of the piles and eats it. The first economist pays him his $20,000.<br /><br />Then the second economist says, "I'll pay you $20,000 to eat the other pile of shit." The first one says okay, and eats the shit. The second economist pays him the $20,000.<br /><br />They resume walking down the street.<br /><br />After a while, the second economist says, "You know, I don't feel very good. We both have the same amount of money as when we started. The only difference is we've both eaten shit."<br /><br />The first economist says: "Ah, but you're ignoring the fact that together we increased the GNP by $40,000"</i>Paul Mendeznoreply@blogger.com