tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post5018631229069391261..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: "OECD Warns West on Education Gaps"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-42995120618171365782014-03-21T02:16:55.911-07:002014-03-21T02:16:55.911-07:00http://www.edu-huayu.com/【Mikihouse】ミキハウス【Hot-bisc...http://www.edu-huayu.com/【Mikihouse】ミキハウス【Hot-biscuits】ホットビスケッツHotb☆お顔がドン!!-jp-2258.html<br />http://www.edu-huayu.com/緊急値下げ【代引き手数料無料】【アップリカ】 カルーン マルチドットbk 驚きの軽さ『3.6kg』--jp-2783.html<br />http://www.edu-huayu.com/大幅値下げ【代引き手数料無料】【アップリカ】ベビーカーnew-スティック フラットaprica-ne-jp-2709.html<br />http://www.edu-huayu.com/【スペシャルセール レインカバー付】カム-ミクロ-レッド都市型のスタイリッシュバギーCom-micr-jp-2553.html<br />http://www.edu-huayu.com/【イングリッシーナ】アビオ フットマフ ショート-avio【新商品続々入荷中】-fs3gm-upup-jp-2383.html<br /> <br />http://www.irandior.com/【大幅値下げ中】※只今最安値中【Drop:ドロップ】|ペンダントライト|ycl862|Youwa|【-jp-2647.html<br />http://www.irandior.com/【大幅値下げ中】※只今最安値中【期間限定】Qween【クイーン】|ytl833|インテリア照明|スタ-jp-2923.html<br />http://www.irandior.com/【大幅値下げ中】【Richard:リチャード】シャンデリア|ペンダントライト|照明|ライト|お洒落|-jp-3124.html<br />http://www.irandior.com/【大幅値下げ中】【インテリア照明】【Fores:林工芸】-wb2004fg|ミニスタンド|木製ベース-jp-2861.html<br />http://www.irandior.com/【大幅値下げ中】【赤橙】【Emporisekitou:エンポリセキトウ】【ガラスシェード】【和風テー-jp-2866.html<br /> <br />[url=http://www.lntele1000.com/led看板-掲示板-「Sale」「セール」★ledネオン看板★売出バーゲン店頭販売-led看板chs-jp-2182.html]ledネオン看板[/url]<br />[url=http://www.lntele1000.com/ペットキャリー-犬-猫-用-304-新型-スケルトン扉ペットキャリkn0304☆-jp-2220.html]犬-猫-用[/url]<br />[url=http://www.lntele1000.com/ベッドテント-キャンプテント-ベッド-収納bag付-防災-災害にもアウトドアテント-テント71108-jp-2425.html]キャンプテント[/url]<br />[url=http://www.lntele1000.com/選べる4色-ダストボックス-12l-スチールゴミ箱-ペダル式角ゴミ箱15d12l☆-jp-2185.html]ダストボックス[/url]<br />[url=http://www.lntele1000.com/おでん鍋-仕切付-家庭用-湯豆腐-熱燗に-電気保温調理器-寒い次期に恋しいあつあつおでん。おでんだけ-jp-2217.html]おでん鍋[/url]<br /> <br />[url=http://www.lntele1000.com/ペットキャリー-犬-猫-用-304-新型-スケルトン扉ペットキャリkn0304☆-jp-2220.html]犬-猫-用[/url]<br />[url=http://www.lntele1000.com/キャスター付き作業椅子パーツボックス★工具箱ボックスg594☆-jp-2172.html]工具箱ボックス[/url]<br />[url=http://www.lntele1000.com/エアーベッド-エアベッド-日よけ付き-ビーチ-海水浴-日除け-エアーベッド027113☆-jp-2214.html]エアベッド[/url]<br />[url=http://www.lntele1000.com/ボール盤-電動-卓上-コンパクト-穴あけ作業-木材金属-トリマーzj3104★-jp-2409.html]ボール盤[/url]<br />[url=http://www.lntele1000.com/超特大業務用-ミスト扇風機-タンク容量41l-ミストファン-クールダウン-工場-倉庫-サービスエリア-jp-2492.html]ミスト扇風機[/url]<br /> <br />http://www.locsites.com/louis-vuitton-ルイヴィトン-タイガ-ポルトモネ?ボワット-アカジュー-コインケース-美-jp-2700.htmlアカジュー コインケース<br />http://www.locsites.com/miu-miu★ミュウミュウ★クロコ調★二つ折り★ファスナー長財布★キャメル★レザー【中古】【中古】-jp-2104.html二つ折り ファスナー長財布<br />http://www.locsites.com/ルイヴィトン-エピ用-ショルダーストラップ-美品?ヴィトン ルイ?ヴィトン ルイビトン ビトン ショ-jp-2528.htmlショルダーストラップ<br />http://www.locsites.com/chanel-シャネル-ラムスキン-アイコン-二つ折りがま口長財布-ブラック?がま口財布 レディース-jp-3666.htmlラムスキン アイコン<br />http://www.locsites.com/louis-vuitton-ルイヴィトン-スピーディ25-m41528-ボストンバッグ-レディース?-jp-2838.htmlボストンバッグ レディース<br /> <br />http://www.macrolink.biz/オロビアンコ-シルベストラ-orobianco-silvestra2wayショルダーバッグ-prem-jp-2295.htmlオロビアンコ シルベストラ<br />http://www.macrolink.biz/パタゴニア-patagonia-レディース-アドボケートラティス-スリップオンシューズladies--jp-2065.htmlレディース アドボケートラティス<br />http://www.macrolink.biz/スノーボード-3点セット-板-【送料無料】-レディース-1314-two-b-one-paint-1-jp-2228.htmlレディース スノーボード<br />http://www.macrolink.biz/グレゴリー-gregory-タラック18-tallac18【18リットル】【バックパック】【デイパッ-jp-2289.htmlタラック18 tallac18<br />http://www.macrolink.biz/スノーパンツ-white-スノーボードウェア-ユニセックス-女性用-男性用-スノボ-ウェア-スノーボ-jp-2242.htmlスノーパンツ<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-42904776588846265822013-12-14T03:48:56.737-08:002013-12-14T03:48:56.737-08:00@ Anon of 12/13/13, 10:52 AM
1. Traditional, part...@ Anon of 12/13/13, 10:52 AM<br /><br />1. Traditional, particularly neutrally-intentioned, stereotypes usually hold true – by definition (I will not explain further).<br /><br />2. Gaokao is standardised among China’s 33 provinces, except perhaps 2 cases of Beijing and Shanghai which use their own Gaokao papers (i.e. usually easier). Even so, there’re plenty of other reliable means to gauge or standardise Beijing and Shanghai’s performance in Gaokao in relation to others.<br /><br />3. Homogeneity is not everything that needs to be taken into account. For geographically small countries such as Sweden, South Korea, England or Japan etc, relatively much higher percentages of their national population are concentrated in or in close proximity of their capital cities and/or their largest commercial cities. Then of course these cities would usually score their national best by default of high urbanisation rates of industrialised countries. <br /><br />Not the case though for a geographically humongous country like China with multiple mega-city belts spreading over wide geographical areas. This is also further complicated by China’s long & unified history of 2,000 years that makes huge north-south and east-west or vice-versus migrations and hence the widespread of cognitive elites possible. Relatively low urbanisation rate of China distorts the picture further, in which a relatively much higher percentage (in comparison to the aforementioned countries) of its cognitive elites lives in the countryside. Under these circumstances it’s borderline foolish to assume that Chinese (cognitive) elites live mostly in several largest and/or the richest cities as critics such as Tom Loveless asserts. This is not the case even for a country with a short unified history of 200 years like a homogeneous USA (think in terms of 1960’s), when the US cognitive elites have already spread across the whole country at a time, apart from just NYC and Washington DC. Again, has NYC or LA or Chicago produced the highest average SAT in the post WW2 US, ever?<br />SPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35964301626650106552013-12-13T10:52:10.159-08:002013-12-13T10:52:10.159-08:00@ SP
Thing is that traditional views are probably...@ SP<br /><br /><i>Thing is that traditional views are probably much more reliable as rules of thumb</i><br /><br />Entirely possible that there is IQ variance amongst the Han China and that Shanghai is merely is the top third or so, rather than the very best. I'm bet the Chinese views on people from various provinces definitely are based on something and are both no more or less accurate than the traditional views Germans, Italians or Japanese hold on the various parts of their nation, and how variant the people within the nation are.<br /><br />Nonetheless, if the Gao Kao is not actually standardized within China and thresholds between the non-standardized exams are are not even normalized on the goal of equal intellectual ability, rather than various political considerations, it seems that different thresholds to enter university between provinces tells you not very much.<br /><br /><i>From another angle, since USA's financial capital is NYC which is also full of American elites, therefore NY must score the highest in the states?</i><br /><br />For Whites that's probably basically true. Close to true within other ethnic groups as well.<br /><br />Comparing countries with a similar ethnic homogenity to China, you probably would find the rich Stockholm scores best (or close to it) in Sweden, Tokyo best (or close to it) in Japan, London (for ethnic English) in the UK, etc.<br /><br />Shanghai could be an exception. But when the only exception to this kind of pattern, internationally, is due to major ethnic structure, then the burden of proof is definitely on the person who wants the exception without the ethnic structure...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-15411267769055133172013-12-11T16:26:56.573-08:002013-12-11T16:26:56.573-08:00"It's hard to understand why these tests ..."It's hard to understand why these tests should be taken seriously when they fail to show a strong correlation between how a country does on the test and its economic and especially intellectual status...<br />The biggest thing to take away from these tests is how little relationship they have to a country's real world rank."<br /><br />Not true, compared to other metrics the significance is huge - especially when you add in factors like time since communist.<br /><br />Also on that point don't forget the Bolsheviks specifically targeted the top 10% of the various indigenous nations under their control, put them in concentration camps and murdered them by the million. It must take a while to recover from something like that.<br /><br />#<br /><br />"And Polish liberals are on the ascent because, let's face it, Polish conservatives are among the dumbest and least imaginative people on Earth."<br /><br />See above (plus Jews on average must be the most racist people on earth after gypsies).<br /><br />#<br /><br />"What is interesting about China is how poorly it is doing compared to its test results and its population size."<br /><br />What is interesting about China is it shows just how terrible communism is as an economic system - just look at the gap between then and now and China is what, maybe only halfway recovered from it.<br /><br />#<br /><br />"Well, while you guys have been worrying about Education gaps, Obama's had his eyes on a more down to earth prize:"<br /><br />That's the Wall St banking mafia's doing. Obama is just an actor.<br /><br />#<br /><br />"Conservatives are usually relatively bright and talented, but have stupid leadership, a situation much like the British Army of yore."<br /><br />The NCOs were intelligent so it didn't matter.<br /><br />#<br /><br />"what does that imply? 1) Culture plays a bigger role than genetic/biological factors within the same racial group;"<br /><br />Culture drives genetics - that's what it's for.<br /><br />#<br /><br />"That Chinese kids are so ready to forgo the special pleasures of childhood and instead put their noses to the grindstone speaks poorly of them and their culture."<br /><br />The Chinese should look at the disintegration of the West and do the exact opposite of what white liberals say.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55710562315345087392013-12-11T14:19:46.960-08:002013-12-11T14:19:46.960-08:00@ Anon 12/11/13, 12:21 PM
Be careful when quoting...@ Anon 12/11/13, 12:21 PM<br /><br />Be careful when quoting Wiki as a source, since many of wiki stuff are either not reliable at all or way out-of-date. Sorrty but actually I don't have the exact answers to your questions, because if different quotas (probably vary by years as well, on top of perhaps different exam papers...) are taken into considerations on thresholds, the picture will become much more complex...<br /><br />Thing is that traditional views are probably much more reliable as rules of thumb: Shanghai people on average are very smart people...Shanghai is China's financial capital... Shanghai Model (not only economic but also educational etc) will be most likely emulated by most parts of China, etc. etc., no doubt with all of these, but if Shanghai kids go to national exams, somehow they just tend to score around the national average. End of. <br /><br />-------<br /><br /><br />Again, my points were: <br /><br />A. Gaokao is very hard (no problem due to being dumbed down the way UK's GCSE exam is) and test most students in China, hence it paints a much more accurate picture than PISA (i.e. this doesn't discredit PISA in any way though), due to the lack of controversies on sampling and which statistical model to deploy etc. <br /><br />And B. Ask any Chinese student you can find about Shanghai's performance in Maths and Science within China, he/she will tell you it's average. It is beyond any doubt that Shanghai is NOT China's Massachusetts, far from it. I don't get it why some dilusional Western experts such as Tom Loveless keep arguing that since Shanghai is the financial capital of China, and with "Hukou", then it must be China's Massachusetts - China's best. I've almost lost confidence in humanity whenever I see 5-year-old "logic" like this. Is this Loveless a Harverd Professor? Un-F-believable! From another angle, since USA's financial capital is NYC which is also full of American elites, therefore NY must score the highest in the states? If no, how about big cities such as Chicago and LA score inside the US? Pretty much on the top, eh? Per cap income of rich Hollywood is quite high, so Hollywood must score higher than, say, Palo Alto or Denver? If no, why they assume so natually that it is the case in China?<br /><br />SPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-37397281016319110822013-12-11T12:21:05.306-08:002013-12-11T12:21:05.306-08:00@ SP
Re these Gao Kao matters, apparently the fo...@ SP <br /><br />Re these Gao Kao matters, apparently the following is a significant factor in province level variance in Chinese entrance exam entry - <br /><br /><i>"A university usually sets a fixed admission quota for each province, with a higher number of students coming from its home province. As the advanced educational resources (number and quality of universities) are distributed unevenly across China, it is argued that people are being discriminated against during the admission process based on their geographic region. For example, compared to Beijing, Henan province has fewer universities per capita. <b>Therefore, Henan usually receives fewer admission quotas compared with Beijing, which makes a significantly higher position among applicants necessary for a Henan candidate to be admitted by the same university than his Beijing counterpart. "</b></i><br /><br />So a place like Shanghai may have lower entry thresholds than other states due to high local educational resources - which would be consistent with them being a showpiece to China in the same manner as Mass is to the US - rather than because of local lower ability level and an equal province level quota.<br /><br />Also the exams themselves aren't constant but have province level variance in their difficulty - <br /><br /><i>"The national college entrance examinations in some regions such as Hubei and Anhui provinces are more difficult than in Beijing. This is best illustrated with the example of Hubei Province. Students who can just reach the admission cut-off score for a key university in their entrance examination are more likely to be admitted by a much better university if they take the entrance examination held in Beijing, which has now been prohibited"</i><br /><br />(All quoted sections from la Wikipedia).<br /><br />The University of Sydney and Adelaide, Australia seems to have markedly different percentile thresholds for different Gao Kao state/province exams. <br /><br />http://sydney.edu.au/documents/future_students/PR%20China%20-%20GaoKao%20Entry%20Requirements.pdf<br />http://www.international.adelaide.edu.au/apply/admission/gaokao/<br /><br />Presumably the Aussies (for all that they have admittedly lower entry bars than Chinese universities, unstudious Gwai Lo and all that) don't have an interest in randomly excluding Chinese from particular states, unlike the quota driven PRC, so will work towards a "fair" and equal entry barrier for all Chinese. That doesn't really square with them all being of equal difficulty and thus comparable to derive an ability metric from.<br /><br />Maybe these Australian metrics might be a good control to determine which provinces have easier and harder entry exams?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1916702447897439342013-12-11T01:27:18.328-08:002013-12-11T01:27:18.328-08:00Even though there're differences such as Taiwa...Even though there're differences such as Taiwan includes Chinese from allover China, and Singapore's immigration policy attracted some of mainland Chinese form all parts of China as well, one can't deny that amongst China's 33 provinces Fujian Province is the best proxy for Singapore and Taiwan if you must choose one.<br /> <br />Dunno how did that happen in Guangdong... traditionally Guangdoing region is above Chinese average in Gaokao, but definitely not amongst the top ranking ones in Science, the weight class of Zhejiang, Jiangsu or Shangdong. <br /><br />Luck and possible different gaokao exam questions aside, one of the reasons could be that being the manufactoring hub of the world for decades it has attacted lots of migrated Chinese families (i.e. different from young migrant workers, these families are presumablely above Chinese average) from the Northern, Western and Eastern Han Chinese heartland. Some giant new metropolitans have been formed by Chinese from overall China in Guangdong... Shenzhen, Dongguang, Zhuhai, etc come to mind.<br /><br />Another factor could be that Guangdong is benefitted from Flynn Effect slightly earlier than other places in China, due to higher growth, faster urbanisation rate, higher average income, better conditions of universal educational investment, etc. The score is about the average, after all.<br /><br />BTW on GDP per cap, Shanghai is not the richest area in China as what mainstream media claim, Guangdong province is, topped by Shenzhen.SPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-42983628677057601082013-12-11T01:12:40.502-08:002013-12-11T01:12:40.502-08:00It is because that those 12 provinces included onl...<i>It is because that those 12 provinces included only 2 or 3 top ones, 4 or 5 average ones, but abslute 4 rock bottom ones (Western Muslim province, all the Southen and South-western ethnic minority provinces). <br /><br />However, as we all know that the REAL China is of >90% Han Chinese. The provinces that Han Chinese represent as overwelmingly majority were not reflected in the average results of either 2009, or 2012 (tested 10 provinces, 30% of which are non-Han minority regions).</i><br /><br />I can't fine any data to actually quantify the effect of this. The extreme scenario would be that there is a one sd gap between these states, so the average was pushed down a third of an SD, which would probably take China's results up to about where the RoC is, from it's Vietnam-Germany like average.<br /><br />But then it would be easier to quantify with accuracy with real numbers.<br /><br />It's a lot like how Singaporean Chinese have talked up a deficit from Singapore Malays, but the only data which breaks out Singapore Malays, the 1999 TIMSS, has them comfortably outscore many Western nations (regardless of whether this actually translates into economic performance or scientific / cultural accomplishment). And thus could not be responsible for a large score deficit.<br /><br /><i>B. as I noted previously, PISA is biased against top-ranking Chinese provinces (e.g. Zhejiang) during sampling by selecting 80% of their scores, both in 2009 and in 2012, from poor rural areas, instead of random sampling like any other country or region.</i><br /><br />Again, this would depend on what the rural-urban gap and real urban-rural percentages are like. If the sampling of rural people is 80% and the real percentage is 60%, then the average is shifted 20% towards the rural average (which if it's like less than half an SD difference, is not going to change the numbers very much).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23318930918566259452013-12-10T18:04:51.690-08:002013-12-10T18:04:51.690-08:00"19.Fujian Province 66.8 (a proxy for Taiwan,..."19.Fujian Province 66.8 (a proxy for Taiwan, and Singapore. Shanghai beats them both in PISA. Surprise?)"<br /><br />You seriously think Fujian is a proxy of Taiwan and Singapore? So what happen to Guangdong, a proxy of Hongkong by your logic? It shouldn't have score higher than Shanghai.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6465656739081255502013-12-10T14:16:51.920-08:002013-12-10T14:16:51.920-08:00Below is 2012 score scaling of Chinese national Ga...Below is 2012 score scaling of Chinese national Gaokao exam. Since almost every student got tested, it is far more accurate than the picture PISA paints.<br /><br />A full score of 100 degree in University Entrance test, Shanghai students, for example, got at least 67.5 can enter a university, ranking only 17th of 33 provinces within China in the important Science and math.<br /><br />Note that Gaokao seperates into Science and Liberal Arts 2 big categories. Both test maths, but math tested in Science is far more difficult. <br /><br />The West thinks Shanghai is the best of China? ROFL. Have fun!<br /><br /><br />For Science(as full score=100)<br /><br />1.Guangdong Province 76.5 (a big surprise that the Canonese did exceptional well last year)<br />2.Zhejiang Province 76.2<br />3.Sichuan Province 74.9<br />4.Shandong Province 73.9<br />5.Beijing 73.3<br />6.Hebei Province 71.7<br />7.Liaoning Province 71.7<br /><br />8.Jilin Province 71.3 (with a sizeable ethnic Korean population)<br /><br />9.Jiangsu Province 70.4<br />10.Hubei Province 70.3<br />11. Heilongjiang Province 70.3<br />12.Tianjin 69.5<br />13.Chongqing 69.3<br />14.Jiangxi Province 68.9<br />15.Guangxi (Minorities + Han)region68.0<br />16.Hainan Province 67.6<br /><br />17.Shanghai 67.5<br /><br />18.Henan Province 67.3<br /><br />19.Fujian Province 66.8 (a proxy for Taiwan, and Singapore. Shanghai beats them both in PISA. Surprise?)<br /><br />20.Hunan Province 66.0<br />21.Yunnan (Minority region)66.0<br />22.Shanxi Province 65.7<br />23.Anhui Province 65.3<br />24.Gansu Province 65.2 (sparsely populated minority region)<br />25.Shanxi Province 64.7<br />26.Inner Mongolia 64.3<br />27.Tibet Autonomous Region 62.7<br />28.Ningxia (Muslim Region)60.7<br />29.Guizhou Province(heavily minority region)59.9<br />30.Xinjiang (Muslim region)59.1<br />31.Qinghai (sparsely populated. largely Tibetans)51.1<br /><br /><br /><br />For Liberal arts(as full score=100)<br /><br />1.Guangdong 79.2 (a very big surprise as well)<br />2,Zhejiang 76.4<br />3.Shandong 76.0<br />4.Sichuan 75.6<br />5.Hebei 74.8<br /><br />6.Shanghai 74.7<br /><br />7.Hunan 74.3<br />8.Chongqing 74.1<br />9.Hainan 74.1<br />10.Liaoning 73.9<br />11.Beijing 73.2<br />12.Guangxi 72.1<br />13.Anhui 72.0<br />14.Shanxi 72.0<br />15.Tianjin 71.1<br />16.Jiangxi 70.9<br />17.Hubei 70.8<br />18.Guizhou 69.6<br />19.Yunnan 69.3<br />20.Henan 69.2<br />21.Fujian 68.4<br />22.Jiangsu 68.3<br />23.Jilin 68.0<br />24.Shanxi 67.6<br />25.Heilongjiang 67.2<br />26.Gansu 67.1 (minority region)<br />27.Ningxia 64.5 (muslim region)<br />28.Tibet 64.0 (minority region)<br />29.Inner Mongolia 63.2 (minority region)<br />30.Xinjiang 61.3 (muslim region)<br />31.Qinghai 58.0 (minority region)<br /> SPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-5326161165873509792013-12-10T13:34:16.321-08:002013-12-10T13:34:16.321-08:001. With as large as about 46% students missing, Vi...1. With as large as about 46% students missing, Vietnam's scores undoubtedly have some water. But in spite of this, Vietnam is quite good nonetheless. But don't forget that Vietnam, like Korea, was China's vassel state for 1000s of years until recently, therefore both Vietnam and Korea (for that matter Japan as well) are Confucius country with a culture that values education as the highest alongwith hardwork. So Vietnam's score (more or less) doesn't surprise me though, and good for the Viets.<br /><br />2. Vietnam's national average IQ is about 96. Vietnam's average can not beat ANY Han Chinese province of China, by a long shot. It was so in the history and it is so now. Southern Vietnam is of South-East Asian stock (similar to the native Malays and Fillippinos) with IQ of mid to high 80s. However, the northern part of Vietnam, its intellectual hub, is by and large a cross between Han Chinese(who settled there 2,000 years ago) and Southern Vietnamese, with avg IQ of probably 100.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72203086250639952762013-12-10T13:17:51.018-08:002013-12-10T13:17:51.018-08:00" how does this square with previous figures ..." how does this square with previous figures from 2009 that place China's average on the PISA at about where Vietnam is here (as reported in a previous comment thread by A Karlin)? <br /><br />If major provinces are above Shanghai, then we'd have to have other major provinces way below Vietnam to balance out...."<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />China 2009 PISA tested only 12 provinces. The results are NOT average of China by any shape and colour, but JUST the average of those 12 provinces tested, used as a rough proxy by A Karlin to second-guess the national average IQ (of course, personally I think it's underestimation). So these are 2 very different concepts that can not be interchanged wihtout very questionable assumptions.<br /><br />It is because that those 12 provinces included only 2 or 3 top ones, 4 or 5 average ones, but abslute 4 rock bottom ones (Western Muslim province, all the Southen and South-western ethnic minority provinces). <br /><br />However, as we all know that the REAL China is of >90% Han Chinese. The provinces that Han Chinese represent as overwelmingly majority were not reflected in the average results of either 2009, or 2012 (tested 10 provinces, 30% of which are non-Han minority regions).<br /><br />2 more things further extorted both 2009 and 2012 resuts to the downside:<br /><br />A. PISA gives the equal weighting to a sparsely populated non-Han enthinc minority province to a densely populated high-achieving Han Chinese province.<br /><br />B. as I noted previously, PISA is biased against top-ranking Chinese provinces (e.g. Zhejiang) during sampling by selecting 80% of their scores, both in 2009 and in 2012, from poor rural areas, instead of random sampling like any other country or region.<br /><br />Sure, there're some with scores above Shanghai and there're bound others below it. The real average however, is quite close to Shanghai - 2 good reasons for that:<br /><br />A. since Shanghai usually scores about average or slightly above average within Chinese national Gookao, which is far more accurate than PISA since Gaokao doesn't require sampling but just tests almost everyone.<br /><br />B. generally speaking , well-above average students in very high PISA ranking Hong Kong or Singapore score either poorly or average in Chinese Gaokao. This means that the Chinese national average should be somewhere above HK and Singapore - therefore, again, quite close to the average performer Shanghai.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-38512525176198882812013-12-10T12:09:22.209-08:002013-12-10T12:09:22.209-08:00@ Anon 3:29, how does this square with previous fi...@ Anon 3:29, how does this square with previous figures from 2009 that place China's average on the PISA at about where Vietnam is here (as reported in a previous comment thread by A Karlin)? <br /><br />If major provinces are above Shanghai, then we'd have to have other major provinces way below Vietnam to balance out....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69297456199108211422013-12-10T07:22:03.259-08:002013-12-10T07:22:03.259-08:00“Zhejiang people's average IQ is higher than A...“Zhejiang people's average IQ is higher than Ashkenazi Jews.”<br /><br />I don’t understand why so many people here would talk about Ashkenazi Jews as if they were another race. Well, they are essentially white Europeans/americans with Jewish values and culture, who also have a tougher survivor mentality as a result of persecutions in history. If they do score higher in iq tests or accomplish better in society than white Europeans/americans, what does that imply?<br /><br />1) Culture plays a bigger role than genetic/biological factors within the same racial group;<br /><br />2) Results in IQ tests are highly correlated with social performance and can be served as a good indicator of such.Winsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-17797491331158644222013-12-10T04:06:41.093-08:002013-12-10T04:06:41.093-08:00Considering that the majority of overseas Chinese ...<i>Considering that the majority of overseas Chinese were descendants of poor and illiterate peasants/labors, isn't it strange that the elite from a much larger talent pool in mainland China did so much worse than overseas Chinese?</i><br /><br />That's not surprising at all, given that in China, as in much of the rest of the world, access to education was allocated on the basis of power and wealth, which was pretty much predetermined by birth. A peasant in China was illiterate because he wasn't part of the conquering elites who ran the country, not because he was innately stupid. Those who fled China, as with so many other foreigners who came to the US, were ambitious, shrewd and tough enough to survive in a foreign environment with no family connections and no knowledge of the native language. That's not nothing. The fact that the Chinese still in China worshiped a madman like Mao for close to three decades and continue to view him as some kind of Chinese Jesus doesn't speak well for their collective judgment, whatever their raw test scores.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49694551585360644612013-12-10T03:29:09.298-08:002013-12-10T03:29:09.298-08:00@ Steve Sailer
China's disclosure of only Sha...<br />@ Steve Sailer<br /><br />China's disclosure of only Shanghai scores is actually giving the West face.<br /><br />You see Shanghai scores, you think you've seen the best? <br /><br />Now hold tight.<br /><br />Zhejiang Province (China) 2012 PISA scores:<br /><br />Math: 623 (Shanghai 613)<br />Reading: 570 (Shanghai 570)<br />Science: 582 (Shanghai 580)<br /><br /><br />Heavy sample bias contained in the scores:<br /><br />1. 80% of the scores are taken from the rural areas of Zhejiang, which is only 38% rural.<br /><br />2. All elite schools of Zhejiang didn't participate in the PISA test.<br /><br />So Zhejiang's PISA scores by and large don't include the far right side of the IQ curve.<br /><br />Zhejiang people's average IQ is higher than Ashkenazi Jews.<br /><br />If each of China's 20 somthing provinces is standalone, they would take the top 10 spots in PISA ranking. The rest of a dozen or so provinces will scatter between no.11 and no.25 alongwith Sinpapore, HK, Taiwan, Korea and Japan.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-28531127880218150072013-12-09T20:26:44.316-08:002013-12-09T20:26:44.316-08:00"The point is that for most real world routin..."The point is that for most real world routine math type jobs rote memorization is the appropriate learning approach."<br /><br />Sure. High school and college are basically designed for this- its all about memorization. <br /><br />The complicated understanding you describe is more for graduate and professional work.<br />Powerpoint Fan clubnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6673850476158221572013-12-09T20:20:56.480-08:002013-12-09T20:20:56.480-08:00"Perhaps the current conventional wisdom of c..."Perhaps the current conventional wisdom of competition / multiculturalism doesn't work well at uplifting the masses?"<br /><br />Multiculturalism is the gift that keeps on giving as the Singapore riots recently showSelester C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-66318665681027900082013-12-09T19:29:52.108-08:002013-12-09T19:29:52.108-08:00"Chinese communities elsewhere in the world r..."Chinese communities elsewhere in the world rarely make important intellectual contributions or serious innovations... Chinese performance seems to show the same attributes wherever they end up"<br /><br />What's your standard of making IMPORTANT intellectual contributions or serious innovations?<br /><br />There are 8 Chinese that won Nobel science prize. All are overseas Chinese and NONE of them are from mainland China. With that said, it's not true that Chinese performance is the same everywhere, at least from views of winning Nobel prizes. Considering that the majority of overseas Chinese were descendants of poor and illiterate peasants/labors, isn't it strange that the elite from a much larger talent pool in mainland China did so much worse than overseas Chinese? This is because 1) mainland China did not really open up and develop until 30 years ago, and 2) there is always a big time lag between scientific results and Nobel prize recognition. I do not think Nobel prize is the sole way or even a sufficient one to measure how well a country's science develops, however, given that China is now doing well in many scientific frontiers (for example, in fields of superconductivity, nanotechnology, space technology, Bio-gene technology, quantum teleportation etc.), i believe we will see more and more Chinese Nobel prize winners soon.<br /><br />Further, do you know that in silicon valley, many startups were/are founded by Chinese? Chinese engineers are considered overrepresented there (same for wall street too). It's well known that Chinese students have taken up an over-proportionally large percentage at elite universities. That is also becoming true for Chinese faculties and researchers. Given their success in the academic and researching fields, even if you think Chinese rarely make important contributions at present, would you still say so for the future generations?<br /><br />"if Germany had a billion people, or Japan had a billion people, I think it's obvious they would be infinitely wealthier and more powerful than China."<br /><br />Maybe not. One of the fundamental differences between Europe and China is the fact that China was unified 2000 years ago whereas Europe was split into many and remains as such. China is a big civilization state with a huge population, which is good or bad. Why? First, one of the factors that triggered industrialization in Europe i believe was the competitions between countries. Being a big state with a massive population and land size, China certainly has many advantages over smaller countries in the development of its civilization. However, when it reaches some peak, it will either become too strong/arrogant to accept others' ideas, or too stagnant to reform. And that brings out my second point: one of the reasons why Japan industrialized first in Asia is because it is much smaller. China was just too huge to be that flexible and responsive. Therefore, your suppose that with a billion people, Germany or Japan would be infinitely better than China is essentially flawed, as being with a huge population is not just an advantage but also a disadvantage sometimes. Historically, China was indisputably the dominant power and cultural center of east asia, do you really think Japan is innately better than China?Winsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-89607049094807968762013-12-09T17:54:12.205-08:002013-12-09T17:54:12.205-08:00"Ports are not very good. "
Uh-uh. Cam ..."Ports are not very good. "<br /><br />Uh-uh. Cam Rahn Bay, baby. Cam Rahn Bay. <br /><br />The finest port in the Southwestern Pacific. <br /><br />The other ports do have their strong points. The bar girls were nicer in Subic Bay,. There were some truly fine bar girls (and dope!) in Sattahip--another good deepwater port.<br /><br />Putting the women and drugs aside, however, Cam Rahn Bay is the best port in that corner of the world.Irving Crutchlownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49329701646659928572013-12-09T17:43:29.698-08:002013-12-09T17:43:29.698-08:00The Czech Republic is a middling country now. In 1...<i> The Czech Republic is a middling country now. In 1939, it had the eighth highest per capita income in the world.</i><br /><br />Wrong. Aside from Portugal and Spain every western European country was wealthier, and then add the US, Canada, Australia, NZ and Argentina. Czechs were well below 8th spot.Silvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55494725943979860402013-12-09T17:35:12.710-08:002013-12-09T17:35:12.710-08:00What is interesting about China is how poorly it i...<i>What is interesting about China is how poorly it is doing compared to its test results and its population size.</i><br /><br />How exactly is it doing poorly? Since 1978 it has grown at more or less the same pace that other rich asian countries that developed earlier grew at, like Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore.<br /><br />And it's not "obvious" that other countries with similar resources would be "infinitely" richer. Please.Silvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44499035214144564792013-12-09T17:31:29.507-08:002013-12-09T17:31:29.507-08:00"Japanese and Koreans regularly outscore Chin..."Japanese and Koreans regularly outscore Chinese on IQ tests, as do a host of of European countries; Poland notably among them"<br /><br />seriously? you don't mind telling us where the source of this tidbit?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-75097073112603670882013-12-09T17:09:27.519-08:002013-12-09T17:09:27.519-08:00I have Vietnamese students - yes they always have ...I have Vietnamese students - yes they always have Marxist-Leninist studies on their CVs.<br />My impression of them is that they seem harder working than other south-east Asians. Academic ability seems moderate, similar to global norms. We have not had any problems with academic dishonesty from them; unlike several other nations including Pakistan, Indonesia, Georgia, and Saudi Arabia. But Saudi has produced about ten times as many serious cheaters as anywhere else.Simon in Londonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12825497309915083302013-12-09T16:56:44.716-08:002013-12-09T16:56:44.716-08:00@mika
("if Germany had a billion people, or ...<br />@mika<br /><br />("if Germany had a billion people, or Japan had a billion people, I think it's obvious they would be infinitely wealthier and more powerful than China.")<br /><br />Comparing a static point in history as you do without any context regarding the tartgets of comparison is logically as pretty much retarded as claiming that I am running much faster than Usain Bolt in 100m spirint because between 11th metre to 12th metre, as we can see now, I am ahead of him. <br /><br />The same logic can goes to that "if South Africa had 40 million people it would have been infinitely and more powerful than Eastern Germany and perhpas the entire Communist Eastern Europe combined.<br /><br /><br />For almost entire written history except the last 100 years, intellectually, technologically and culturally in any sphere you care to measure, Japan vs China was like Iceland vs USA.<br /><br /><br />("Also, although it's a minor quibble and doesn't affect the point you're trying to make, Japanese and Koreans regularly outscore Chinese on IQ tests, as do a host of of European countries; Poland notably among them. ")<br /><br />Really? rofl. Show your data or stop daydreaming, will yer?<br /><br /><br />( "And Chinese communities elsewhere in the world rarely make important intellectual contributions or serious innovations.")<br /><br />Errr...you go to college?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com