tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post526436951063273116..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Sunstein and Agents ProvocateursUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-11422369494848816302010-01-24T22:49:18.889-08:002010-01-24T22:49:18.889-08:00Steve Sailer said:
In my experience, the greater ...Steve Sailer said:<br /><br /><i>In my experience, the greater problem than the public being overly willing to "connect the dots" and imagine false secret conspiracies is the mainstream press being too unwilling to notice the effects of actual public conspiracies.</i><br /><br />I don't think that the Bush admin. examples you cite of conspiracies "in plain sight" do not really make the cut. A conspiracy is by definition a private plot to hoodwink and rip-off the public. Bush made no attempt to hide his agenda.<br /><br />His disastrous "debtquity & diversity" lending policies and equally silly "see no evil" ethnic profiling procedures were blatant attempts at ethnic pandering. The fact that the press and public intellectuals chose to look the other way because of their politically correct indoctrination is an indictment of the press and public intellectuals, not of Bush.<br /><br />But there is one conspiracy that Bush <i>is</i> guilty of: the blatant lies about Iraq's non-existent WMDs and connections to 911-WTC that were told to justify the Iraq-attack. I <a href="http://catallaxyfiles.blogspot.com/2003_03_16_catallaxyfiles_archive.html#90829774" rel="nofollow">saw through them</a> at least six months prior to the invasion but still supported the war, more fool me. But most of the press bought the lies hook, line and sinker. <br /><br />The Brits are currently holding an inquiry into this debacle. But no one seems various anxious about bringing Bush admin officials to account on this. No doubt too many Democrats were compromised.<br /><br />And of course it would not do to retrospectively "Pat Bu....", now would it?jack strocchihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17534084770633227131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-4924899855844767782010-01-24T14:04:20.050-08:002010-01-24T14:04:20.050-08:00A matter that maybe touches on both "provocat...A matter that maybe touches on both "provocateurs" and "cognitive infiltration" and the varied forms of Contelpro 2010 are some of the entries in wikipedia especially on taboo topics regarding IQ and fortunately clarified elswewhere by Steve Sailer--a one man truth squad! One on IQ testing is laced with misinformation. Jared Taylor has written about how wiki at its worst can spread misunderstanding--something far worse than mere honest ignorance. This problem comes full circle when some government agent--fed, state, or local--relies on what they were taught overtly in the classooms on campus about these matters in order then to deem it unnecessary to ask questions of or listen to a "suspected" person. It produces enough confusion and protest to create a lot of job demand for those paid to do it. I'm not sure where, if anywhere, the daylight is gonna break through the clouds in all this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49292081412645698312010-01-22T00:54:59.859-08:002010-01-22T00:54:59.859-08:00The correct spelling is agents provocateurs Wikipe...The correct spelling is <i>agents provocateurs</i> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur" rel="nofollow"><i>Wikipedia</i></a>, <a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agent%20provocateur" rel="nofollow"><i>Merriam-Webster</i></a>. No variant spellings are admitted.<br /><br />Style and usage guides notwithstanding, it is tempting to italicize <i>agents provocateurs</i> to remind readers that this plural noun + plural adjective construction is a French one.<br /><br />One sees similar blunders when <i>bons mots</i> appears in English as "bon mots".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82723941591309795272010-01-20T09:10:38.003-08:002010-01-20T09:10:38.003-08:00Ya, ya ya.........The GOV is out to get you. I th...Ya, ya ya.........The GOV is out to get you. I think its your guilty conscience, pay your taxes, your DMV fees and register your guns. I instead of being leeches on Society, contribute like most of us. So you won't have dreams that The GOV is after you.Prestonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56658800019466007442010-01-19T21:27:25.681-08:002010-01-19T21:27:25.681-08:00Yeah, AFAIK it's agents provocateur, like cour...Yeah, AFAIK it's agents provocateur, like courts martial.Svigorhttp://majorityrights.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41261312981130935372010-01-19T19:17:14.128-08:002010-01-19T19:17:14.128-08:00"Albertosaurus said...
P.J. O'Roarke..."Albertosaurus said...<br /><br /> P.J. O'Roarke has written a number of wonderful stories about how when he was a hippy his group was infiltrated by a agent provocateur from the FBI.<br /><br /> He gives advice on how to spot your infiltrating Fed - he'll be the one who always has dope."<br /><br />I loved his story about working at an underground newspaper in Baltimore in the early 70's, when their pathetic little office was taken over by an even more radical group that called itself "The Balto-Cong".Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23288684681147661122010-01-19T18:22:59.127-08:002010-01-19T18:22:59.127-08:00It took us 15 years to pop the balloon of the ecop...<i>It took us 15 years to pop the balloon of the ecopagan cult of AGW.</i><br /><br />No, not eco-pagan, but one more brick in the christo-communist wall of sacrifice for its own sake.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-47177835705553289832010-01-19T18:13:06.469-08:002010-01-19T18:13:06.469-08:00albertosaurus:
Your facts are correct--there were...albertosaurus:<br /><br />Your facts are correct--there were convictions of the participant companies (but only somewhat token p[enalties). What is less clear is that there was actually anything in the nature of conspiracy in the normal sense of the word (which is that there be an objective against the law or public welfare) or, rather, merely an agreement in furtherance of an aim not averse to the public welfare (whether or not in some technical violation of the law).<br /><br />The major argument advanced by those unconvinced of antisocial conspiracy or restraint of trade is the observation that, in those very same years, almost all the rail lines went out of business and were generally replaced, if at all, by busses. In other words, the same thing was happening everywhere--without involving the conspirator companies. Ordinary people have a word (and the same word has the same meaning in business): agreement. But, if it can be shown that said agreement violates some facet of law, the people who formerly thought they were in agreement awake to find themselves charged as criminal conspirators. <br /><br />The takeaway from this is that, in this episode, we have no clearcut case either of restraint of trade nor of any intent to defraud the public, though some facet of their agreement was in violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust law (and for which they were convicted and fined). It's a case of law itself being the cause of the crime.Gene Bermannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-83696169299921304062010-01-19T16:30:53.031-08:002010-01-19T16:30:53.031-08:00OT:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2...OT: <br /><br />http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/0111/Israel-s-plan-to-stem-African-immigration-Wall-on-Egypt-s-borderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67513820895038922010-01-19T16:24:36.218-08:002010-01-19T16:24:36.218-08:00Steve:
I believe the correct expression is "...Steve:<br /><br />I believe the correct expression is "agents provocateur."Gene Bermannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-4214894704498350202010-01-19T12:07:00.404-08:002010-01-19T12:07:00.404-08:00P.J. O'Roarke has written a number of wonderfu...P.J. O'Roarke has written a number of wonderful stories about how when he was a hippy his group was infiltrated by a <i>agent provocateur</i> from the FBI.<br /><br />He gives advice on how to spot your infiltrating Fed - he'll be the one who always has dope.albertosaurushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13209465319904999278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-74849237031065631032010-01-19T12:00:58.973-08:002010-01-19T12:00:58.973-08:00The biggest conspiracy in US history involved very...The biggest conspiracy in US history involved very well known companies who were convicted of conspiracy under the Sherman Anti Trust Act. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court. This conspiracy was no myth. Its effects can be seen in every American city today especially Los Angeles.<br /><br />In fact its story was made into a movie that everyone saw and almost everyone admired. Yet it remains relatively obscure. <br /><br />The conspiracy was the National City Lines Conspiracy and the movie was <i>Who Framed Roger Rabbit?</i>.albertosaurushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13209465319904999278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-4149695888046471902010-01-19T10:36:09.216-08:002010-01-19T10:36:09.216-08:00Thats right Chalmer, let us all go back to sleep,m...Thats right Chalmer, let us all go back to sleep,much better that way. Eyelids...getting...heavy...zzzzzAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-75999176442793091072010-01-19T10:29:46.709-08:002010-01-19T10:29:46.709-08:00Law enforcement bothering legal conduct is very in...Law enforcement bothering legal conduct is very inviting to many agents and cops. In regular crime detection and prosecution, very real blemishes can enter the personnel folders of people involved if, say, there's a face-off with the prosecutor about the quality of evidence your investigaton has produced. And your file can be blemished if you get on the witness stand and have a type of "Mark Furman revelation" <br />Investigating lawful conduct evades both of these possibilities. One obvious citizen recourse is to pry out info as to the total person hours being devoted to looking into lawful behavior that is politically exceptional--not illegal. A taxpayer impact assessment just doesn't get done "on the inside".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-19200041719035797952010-01-19T10:01:22.196-08:002010-01-19T10:01:22.196-08:00Congress shall make no law respecting an establish...Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.<br /><br />Sounds like a teabagger proposal to me...<br /><br />WTF is government doing monitoring and regulating speech and opinion?<br /><br />Fighting "conspiracy theories" = fighting theories you don't like.<br /><br />And to try to discredit "conspiracy theorizing" by means of forming conspiracies... is insanity.<br /><br />The "conspiracy theorists" have one thing right. This is a government of liars and it is swiftly becoming illegitimate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-60191796473676611282010-01-19T09:50:57.239-08:002010-01-19T09:50:57.239-08:00It seems to me that an authentic neo-Nazi would no...It seems to me that an authentic neo-Nazi would not engage in Holocaust denial - he would simply say; "Yeah, we killed 6 million Jews and I wish we could have killed 6 million more!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45835414975628858052010-01-19T08:27:59.563-08:002010-01-19T08:27:59.563-08:00"Sunstein then offers a truly brilliant plan ..."Sunstein then offers a truly brilliant plan for how the government should combat conspiracy theories: by mounting secret conspiracies against conspiracy theorists!"<br /><br />HAH! The nelly (anti)constitutional professor from Chicago is advocating COINTELPRO. This comes as no surprise after the MIAC report, which warned police agencies that the most dangerous criminals were white males with the most reverence for the constitution.Marc Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15526121114466617234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-20278924040140323982010-01-19T08:22:17.126-08:002010-01-19T08:22:17.126-08:00Theory in our scientific age amounts to notions am...<i>Theory in our scientific age amounts to notions amendable to fact finding and reasonable discourse moving toward skepticism and rejection OR toward positive regard and increased credibility. Within this parameter, science is wonderfully and productively tolerant of initially seemingly nutty notions and sceptical of initially comfy and annointed notions.</i> <br /><br />That's utter and complete bullshit.<br /><br />It took us 15 years to pop the balloon of the ecopagan cult of AGW, and, even then, we needed Putin's people to break into the computers at East Anglia to get the emails.<br /><br />Even now, we still have a Nobel-prize-winning "physicist" as Secretary of Energy who continues to believe in the myth of AGW.<br /><br />Something about their arrogance makes "scientists" much more easy to fool than commoners.<br /><br />Or else the "scientists" know damned well that they're selling snake oil, but they're doing it because they have ulterior motives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-32665026195013563982010-01-19T08:06:12.598-08:002010-01-19T08:06:12.598-08:00Andreas Strassmeir is the classic modern example o...Andreas Strassmeir is the classic modern example of an agent provocateur gone wrong. The son of a high-ranking German official, he'd studied counter-terrorism in Germany before being let into the US on a visa supposedly to participate in Civil War reenactments. He gets involved in domestic militia groups and winds up with one in Texas but gets kicked out when they get suspicious and follow him one night to a government building. he heads to eastern OK and becomes head of security at a white nationalist compound. There he tries to foment domestic terrorism, and his name is sent to the ATF, SPLC and FBI by various plants throughout the compound. He meets Tim McVeigh at a gun show, is the recipient of McVeigh's one known call to the compound ("Tell Andy I'm coming through") and is seen numerous times in McVeigh's company in OK and Kansas. After the bombing he's allowed to stay in the US on an expired visa for several months and never once questioned by the FBI. When stopped by the local police shortly after the bombing he's found with a valid TN drivers license and SS#, and the local cops get a call to let him go. Eventually he leaves the US via Mexico and returns to Germany. Evans Ambrose-Pritchard of the Financial Times got him to admit most of this in The Secret Life of Bill Clinton.<br /><br />Interestingly, McVeigh himself told his death row cellmate as well as Terry Nichols that he was also working for the government to infiltrate gun shows and the white ntlst movement, and went AWOL on them. This would certainly connect some dots, but who knows if it's true or not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-57479293842794521742010-01-19T06:23:52.134-08:002010-01-19T06:23:52.134-08:00A possible disincentive an abused citizen might br...A possible disincentive an abused citizen might bring against outfits like SPLC or local police agencies would amount to a meritorious contention that file content assembled has been deliberately skewed and selected<br />so as to amount to a body of created, creative material the content of which the person in focus has a property claim upon (as in copyright). This gains potential legally inasmuch as allegedly a key aim in assembling the lurid and omitting what exonerates is to seek revelations to potential donors via their lawyers from lawyers serving the entity assembling the file material--the "juicier" the file content and the greater punishments being visited upon the person in focus, the quicker the potential donor becomes an actual donor. A property-based assertion having promise of legally complicating such a sophisticated racket is worthy of the fullest regard and assertion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-3223061198059386372010-01-19T06:04:16.831-08:002010-01-19T06:04:16.831-08:00To get a fix on why it is soo veery important to m...To get a fix on why it is soo veery important to monitor and tamper with first amendment rights, consider that in routine,<br />genuine law enforcement there are two potential burrs in your saddle that can't happen in lawful "extremeism" cases: (1) You can get into a tussle with the prosecutor over the quality of your evidence; (2) you can get into the witness chair and have a "Mark Furman" experience. If you can stay away from genuine crime investigation as an FBI/ATF agent or local detective, you can coast to small promotiomns as long as you are smart enough to play the game but dumb enough to lack insight into its consequences for others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-24763502920537735512010-01-18T23:03:07.970-08:002010-01-18T23:03:07.970-08:00"For instance, the old-fashioned Bilderberg G..."For instance, the old-fashioned Bilderberg Group is a bunch of rich, powerful people who quietly get together in fancy hotels and talk things over in private, away from the press."<br /><br />Why isn't this news? Why is this quiet? Hmm....Jeremiah Whitmoorehttp://neopaleocons.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-27750004376574748482010-01-18T22:51:04.567-08:002010-01-18T22:51:04.567-08:00Theory in our scientific age amounts to notions am...Theory in our scientific age amounts to notions amendable to fact finding and reasonable discourse moving toward skepticism and rejection OR toward positive regard and increased credibility. Within this parameter, science is wonderfully and productively tolerant of initially seemingly nutty notions and sceptical of initially comfy and annointed notions. The late Carleton Coon's written opinion on the possibility of a Big Foot actually existing is not "conspiracy theory" in the sense that term is used/misused. His fact-based reasoning and clear logic and dispassionate commentary deflate fast any snickering contempt toward the question. Science is in significant part one long discovery of the nutty being true and the annointed being barnyard droppings--as in the notion of the sun NOT rising in the East and setting in the West. Extremism is defined OVER TIME AND NOT HERE-AND-NOW in a free society as the initially seemingly nutty gains consensus and respect via informed discourse or as the seemingly sacrosanct starts to wilt and go down the drain. With a little encouragement a local book phobic sheriff or a group-think young FBI agent can see through their enthusiasms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73305403987097375552010-01-18T22:31:04.558-08:002010-01-18T22:31:04.558-08:00Federal law--the Privacy Act-- permits a citizen t...Federal law--the Privacy Act-- permits a citizen to submit for entry into his personal file and other files referencing his name documents or commentary submitted by him that would correct, complement, or dispute content already on file. A lot what seems at issue in this matter, espcuially with dainty outfits resembling $PLC, is what, in effect, is the cookie cutting, cherry picking of data to make it<br />"media juicy" or local sheriff "juicy" etc. etc. There is no statute or reg known to me that permits a person to compel an $PLC type operation to correct its files in the service of truth. But enough info "walks around" within various levels of law enforcement and allied entities that corrective file content to a federal file base can deservedly boomerang against smear efforts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-31689363975766130432010-01-18T20:23:47.103-08:002010-01-18T20:23:47.103-08:00That 'Psychological Warfare Team' seems to...<i>That 'Psychological Warfare Team' seems to be doing a great job</i> <br /><br />You must have been on Mars throughout calendar year 2008.<br /><br />Or make that Venus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com