tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post5368138350654807427..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Hungry football playersUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger109125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86641798262715063542011-11-22T18:48:27.166-08:002011-11-22T18:48:27.166-08:00Has it entered your head that even non-nerds can b...<i>Has it entered your head that even non-nerds can be appalled at the inherent contradictions and distortions of college athletics?<br /><br />The wild popularity of college sports would suggest not.</i><br /><br />"Professional" wresting and cash advance paycheck stores are also very popular. What does that say about the wisdom of crowds?<br /><br />Football *fanaticism* is a class marker like tats and smokes. Football crazies just include the mass cultural middle class as well as the core lower classes. Note the inverse relationship above between elite colleges (the best avenue to the powerful and connected) and elite BCS football programs.<br /><br />Sure, there is the oddball lower/middle class who makes a fortune and wastes some of it on his state college football team like OkStU. However, their offspring will be generally be more well-bred and pour the old man's money into curing tropical diseases abroad, closing the ed gap at home or become an patron of the arts.<br /><br />You certainly don't see high-IQ fortune makers or holders like Gates, Buffet or Soros pouring their money into "college" sports.<br /><br />That's not to be anti-sport or the important lessons one can learn from participating in team or individual competition. It's just putting spectator football into perspective of as the entertainment it is.Curiousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-10699155136154728262011-11-22T05:25:04.855-08:002011-11-22T05:25:04.855-08:00Has it entered your head that even non-nerds can b...<i>Has it entered your head that even non-nerds can be appalled at the inherent contradictions and distortions of college athletics?</i><br /><br />The wild popularity of college sports would suggest not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-18239365880112616832011-11-21T18:12:20.437-08:002011-11-21T18:12:20.437-08:00Football serves a useful function at some of the S...<i>Football serves a useful function at some of the Southern and Midwestern College factories like Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Alabama, Old Miss, etc.<br /><br />It not only creates alumni loyalty it helps the reputation of the school.</i><br /><br />My impression is that football reputation is generally anti-correlated with academic rigour.<br /><br />Curious, I list the USNWR ranking in () of the current top 20 ranked BCS schools. <br /><br />1. LSU (#128)<br />2. Alabama (#75)<br />3. Arkansas (2nd tier, unpub)<br />4. OkState (#132)<br />5. VA Tech (#71)<br />6. Stanford (#5)<br />7. Boise St. (regional, #67)<br />8. Houston (2nd tier, unpub)<br />9. Ok (#101)<br />10. Ore (#101)<br />11. KS St (#143)<br />12. S.Car (#111)<br />13. GA (#62)<br />14. MI St. (#71)<br />15. Mich (#28)<br />16. Wisc (#42)<br />17. Clemson (#68)<br />18. Baylor (#75)<br />19. PSU (#45)<br />20. TCU (#97)<br /><br />Then I did the reverse, listing the top 20 USNWR ranked schools with their current BCS ranking in (). NOTE: the pro-private/anti-public university slant of USNWR rankings slighly exaggerate the anticorrelation trend by omitting top public universities like Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan and Virgina.<br /><br />1. Harvard (not D1)<br />1. Princeton (not D1)<br />3. Yale (not D1)<br />4. Columbia (not D1)<br />5. CalTech (not D1)<br />5. MIT (not D1)<br />5. Stanford (#6)<br />5. UChi (not D1)<br />5. UPenn (not D1)<br />10. Duke (#94)<br />11. Dartmouth (not D1)<br />12. Northwestern (#64)<br />13. JohnHopkins (not D1)<br />14. WashU (not D1)<br />15. Brown (not D1)<br />15. Cornell (not D1)<br />17. Rice (not D1)<br />17. Vanderbilt (#60)<br />19. NotreDame (#22)<br />20. Emory (not D1)<br /><br />The results were as expected. In general, rich and smart universities/colleges generally have poor football programs and visa-versa.<br /><br />Now is national basketball ranking more or less anti-correlated with USNWR ranking?Curiousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-71438256756448894472011-11-21T16:12:51.605-08:002011-11-21T16:12:51.605-08:00Troofie, what part of HOCKEY EAST didn't you u...Troofie, what part of HOCKEY EAST didn't you understand? The ECAC is the Ivy League and the flotsam and jetsam hockey schools added to pad the schedule as the real hockey powers left. It's been 30 years since an ECAC school even made it to the NCAA finals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-48458777263147082752011-11-21T10:39:09.432-08:002011-11-21T10:39:09.432-08:00Japan and China do well enough without all this jo...Japan and China do well enough without all this jock bullshit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67084410463608252982011-11-21T10:38:42.374-08:002011-11-21T10:38:42.374-08:00Why shouldn't they be paid for their hard work...<i>Why shouldn't they be paid for their hard work, skills,</i><br /><br />Why shouldn't nerds be paid (in more ways than money) for their hard work and skills too?<br /><br /><i>and assumption of the risk of serious injury?</i><br /><br />Like getting beaten up for being unpopular?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64167403029447200652011-11-21T05:20:33.729-08:002011-11-21T05:20:33.729-08:00Bottom line, college athletic departments just nee...<i>Bottom line, college athletic departments just need to be dismantled, root and branch.<br /><br /><br />Ah, the eternal, tortured wail of the nerd.</i><br /><br />Has it entered your head that even non-nerds can be appalled at the inherent contradictions and distortions of college athletics?The Anti-Gnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04386593803225823789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-25368297596845745652011-11-20T20:51:05.051-08:002011-11-20T20:51:05.051-08:00Grinnell is a rich school due to early investments...Grinnell is a rich school due to early investments in Intel and Buffett's firm. Its basketball coach always plays hurry-up basketball so everybody gets to score. A typical Grinnell game will have 17 players scoring with 8 in double figures. And they'll probably lose 125-114, but a good time will be had by all.Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84371229079691653962011-11-20T18:33:19.999-08:002011-11-20T18:33:19.999-08:00Haverford and Williams wiki don't list varsity...Haverford and Williams wiki don't list varsity participation rates. Haverford lists only 7 generally highly competitive sports, but Williams appears uniquely athletic being #1 academically among small lib art schools by USNWR and #1 athletically by D3NCAA rankings 2004-2011 with 50% participation in varsity or formal club sport.<br /><br />Picking 2 small liberal arts colleges at random: Grinnell College has ~33% of it's 1688 students (~562) compete in one of the 20 varsity sports teams and Occidental has ~25% compete in one of 21 varsity sports teams. This does not include the more common club and intermural sports.<br /><br />In contrast, LSU fields 21 varsity sports team for about 24,000 students or approximately 600/24,000= 2.5% which is probably par for the course.<br /><br />No doubt, large elite colleges like HYP fall somewhere inbetween, closer to large public schools due to scale. Interestingly, Harvard offers no scholarships for their 41 varsity D1 sports teams which number as the most among any D1 college in the US.<br /><br /><i>Stanford & Duke, being relatively new institutions that view their national-level athletics as ROI</i><br /><br />Hard to believe any womens sport or most mens sports are directly profitable unless you count them as advertising and brand building. Even then, it's hard to argue most sports like womans field hockey provide Duke or Stanford with a positive ROI.Questionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-48570717956089319662011-11-20T18:21:57.291-08:002011-11-20T18:21:57.291-08:00that guy said...
Caltech probably has a football...<i>that guy said... <br /><br />Caltech probably has a football team, although I can't imagine what it's like at the moment;</i><br /><br />CalTech's football team went <a href="http://media.caltech.edu/press_releases/12408" rel="nofollow">undefeated and unscored upon in 1944.</a> It has been undefeated since 1993. <br /><br />That was the year they discontinued the program. However, CalTech does seem to be actively promote true scholar-athlete sports there. Of 900 undergrads, 210 (23%) are on at least one of the 17 varsity sports teams.<br /><br /><a href="" rel="nofollow">"I think the Caltech athletic experience is best summed up by the expression 'process over product,'" says Jack. "What that means is that the students think of their experience in athletics as one that emphasizes the individual enjoyment of practice, preparation, hard work, the spirit of competition, and so on, but doesn't necessarily include trying to become a star athlete, or winning a championship as a top goal.</a>Questionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-37564468576501519792011-11-20T17:24:43.052-08:002011-11-20T17:24:43.052-08:00Off topic:
How about some Sailerian analysis of t...Off topic:<br /><br />How about some Sailerian analysis of this year's Rhodes Scholars?<br /><br />http://www.rhodesscholar.org/assets/uploads/2011_Winners_List.pdf<br /><br />* almost exactly 50 percent male/female<br /><br />* unbelievably SWPL in the ambitious do-gooderism of organizations founded, initiatives led, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67584692109114503252011-11-20T15:02:37.332-08:002011-11-20T15:02:37.332-08:00I believe a significant chunk of the Sony/ATV cata...I believe a significant chunk of the Sony/ATV catalogue, which included the Beatles' stuff, is now controlled by Fortress Investment Group and particularly its Drawbridge Special Opportunities Fund, which took it as collateral on a colossal loan it bought from BoA in the mid-2000s.slumber_jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50838004660071657022011-11-20T07:32:47.378-08:002011-11-20T07:32:47.378-08:00Football serves a useful function at some of the S...Football serves a useful function at some of the Southern and Midwestern College factories like Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Alabama, Old Miss, etc.<br /><br />It not only creates alumni loyalty it helps the reputation of the school. It shouldn't but it does.<br />The elite Ivies don't need sports & the smaller less endowed schools can't afford them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-40952419502025128942011-11-20T06:21:40.544-08:002011-11-20T06:21:40.544-08:00Question: I hate to be "that guy" but th...Question: I hate to be "that guy" but the beginning of your q--<i>"old scholar-athlete (HYP, CalTech, Small Liberal Arts Colleges) model or the semi-pro athlete model (LSU, Alabama, etc)"</i>--is riddled with false dilemmata, excluded middles, or some similar term I'd have learned in college. Caltech probably has a football team, although I can't imagine what it's like at the moment; most "small LAC" in the Williams or Haverford sense, just can't afford it period. Even within HYP or PHY or etc. there is variation, as well as divergence over time; Princeton for a long time had a formidable basketball team. But their division disallows athletic scholarships so the idea of "UGa vs UPenn" is rendered preposterous and obviates any useful comparison. Stanford & Duke, being relatively new institutions that view their national-level athletics as ROI rather than frittering away money, are structurally devolved into collaborating fiefdoms, similar to Michigan or Cal Berkeley for the gov't counterexamples. It probably does hurt the snob appeal of their diplomas (in Stanford's case, not by much) but 5 or 10 bil in endowment $ is also nice.that guynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72959635698078313762011-11-19T21:25:17.650-08:002011-11-19T21:25:17.650-08:00Hungry, Hungry Football Player.Hungry, Hungry Football Player.Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-83870382762915027392011-11-19T21:24:42.456-08:002011-11-19T21:24:42.456-08:00Wasn't The Hungry Football Player the name of ...Wasn't The Hungry Football Player the name of a popular children's book?edgy gurlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-66989211150189527972011-11-19T20:43:11.925-08:002011-11-19T20:43:11.925-08:00"As far as revenue, my understanding is that ..."As far as revenue, my understanding is that semi-pro big college sports are money losers overall despite the top teams earning a lot (Texas, UGa and UPenn the top 3 revenue makers)."<br /><br />Shirley you meant Penn State. UPenn is a 2nd -tier Ivy League school with no BigMoney sports or child-rape scandals to speak of.betachainsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-37050632365149913402011-11-19T17:30:54.707-08:002011-11-19T17:30:54.707-08:00I wonder if a college benefits more on a per capit...I wonder if a college benefits more on a per capital basis from the old scholar-athlete (HYP, CalTech, Small Liberal Arts Colleges) model or the semi-pro athlete model (LSU, Alabama, etc)?<br /><br />Wouldn't a student who actually played, gutted it out and bonded with a sports team like LaCross at Duke or even a HYP football team be more passionate about their school experience and more likely to donate than some jock-sniffing football spectator alum of LSU? <br /><br />Granted there are a lot of big sport jock-sniffing spectators at these big public Us. Perhaps semi-pro athletes and big sports is the the only/best way big Us can build a sense loyalty among their alumni.<br /><br />Colleges like Stanford and Duke seem to walk the line.<br /><br />As far as revenue, my understanding is that semi-pro big college sports are money losers overall despite the top teams earning a lot (Texas, UGa and UPenn the top 3 revenue makers).Questionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-63070437143321210242011-11-19T17:25:45.389-08:002011-11-19T17:25:45.389-08:00amongst the schools that have made the most widely...<i>amongst the schools that have made the most widely-accepted academic progress of the last 40 years; Alabama and Florida, with Miami U. possibly the most improved academic institution in America over that period of time.</i><br /><br />Can we see some cites for that, sport?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-89190172890657527372011-11-19T17:13:15.436-08:002011-11-19T17:13:15.436-08:00I think i'm in the right one:
http://www.ecac...I think i'm in the right one:<br /><br />http://www.ecachockey.com/splash/indexTruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67030552245572404012011-11-19T16:30:40.332-08:002011-11-19T16:30:40.332-08:00Anon 11:50-CFL: 9 teams, 42 players per team with ...Anon 11:50-CFL: 9 teams, 42 players per team with half the spots reserved for Canadian citizens, 19 regular season games, 4.5 million dollars PER TEAM salary cap, rookie base salary $42K!!! Some D-1 studs get more money in college...<br /><br />Troofie, ECAC Hockey?! Which century are you in? But my comment was to your statement that other sports aren't revenue positive, not by how much, straw man.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-90686164071742634012011-11-19T16:18:43.891-08:002011-11-19T16:18:43.891-08:00Anti-Gnostic said...
Bottom line, college athleti...Anti-Gnostic said...<br /><br /><i>Bottom line, college athletic departments just need to be dismantled, root and branch.<br /></i><br /><br />Ah, the eternal, tortured wail of the nerd.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84641004010966170522011-11-19T13:43:53.355-08:002011-11-19T13:43:53.355-08:00"They get paid after they leave, Troofie.&quo..."They get paid after they leave, Troofie."<br /><br />So you are against college athletes getting paid, great. Any comparison between SEC football and ECAC hockey is similar to a comparison between an '87 Yugo and a McLaren Formula One Automobile -- they're both cars. <br /><br />We're not talking about a program that draws 9,000 fans, 22 times a year at $15 a head plus parking and hot dogs, we're talking about BILLIONS of dollars in TV revenue, stadiums that seat 102,000 fans, memorabilla marketing that continues long after the athlete ceases playing for the university,<br />(Go to Auburn today and you still se Bo Jackson jerseys in the bookstore) and video game deals that electronically mimic the players athletic ability and mannerisms...all without playing the players a dime. <br /><br />This is in addition to ancillary benefits such as increase enrollment and outreach garnered through successful football and basketball teams (look it up).<br /><br />This revenue is of course, not used only for the football program, but to keep "novelty" sports programs alive, and to enhance the reputation of STEM programs (amongst the schools that have made the most widely-accepted academic progress of the last 40 years; Alabama and Florida, with Miami U. possibly the most improved academic institution in America over that period of time.)<br /><br />There are no easy answers to highly complex questions.Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45283024314812101622011-11-19T13:29:30.940-08:002011-11-19T13:29:30.940-08:00"If it's all about revenue, a casino woul..."If it's all about revenue, a casino would generate just as easily, for far less expense in infrastructure and with far less corruption."<br /><br />And how, exactly, would the 12 SEC teams building competing casinos foster the collegiate "strong mind HEALTHY BODY" ideal?<br /><br />One thing that objective intellectuals realize. JSM, is that there is a cause and effect to every result, and a cause and effect to every cause and effect. The greater the level of intellect, the deeper one may go into the "cause and effect abyss."Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-91379486999935613032011-11-19T11:50:56.375-08:002011-11-19T11:50:56.375-08:00Football players are limited to the NFL
And Canad...<i>Football players are limited to the NFL</i><br /><br />And Canadian football.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com