tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post657327272807894825..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Who says the social sciences aren't sciences?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger75125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-79823162334259818002008-11-11T16:27:00.000-08:002008-11-11T16:27:00.000-08:00"Yep, the earlier poster was confusing Stuyvesant ..."Yep, the earlier poster was confusing Stuyvesant and Bed-Stuy. (Quite a howler.)"<BR/><BR/>New Yorkers are kind of funny about their town's microgeography. Like if you reveal that you don't know what borough something is in, they think you must be an idiot. This is true even if the conversation is taking place in, you know, Madagascar or something, and they know you've never been to New York, and you've just drawn a remarkably accurate freehand map of the world in a Mollweide Projection.... <BR/><BR/>I like to mess with them right back, referring to Manhattan as "New York County". They deny that it is. I ask them what county it's in. "It's <I>The City</I>" they say. So where is New York County? "There is none." Then I look it up and show them. "But nobody calls it that!" No, New Yorkers don't call it that. Encyclopedias do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-71941027519438890862008-11-11T12:14:00.000-08:002008-11-11T12:14:00.000-08:00I'm inclined to agree with our host on this one. ...I'm inclined to agree with our host on this one. Social studies can be scientific <B>as long as you don't try too hard (or at all) to explain facts that aren't true</B>. For example, it's no good saying hate crimes give black people lower self-esteem than white people if (a) black people have higher self-esteem than white people and (b) whites suffer more interracial hate crime than blacks. <BR/><BR/>You could, however, make a decent case that hate crimes give white people lower self-esteem than black people, also noting that (c) whenever white people are victimized in hate crimes they are called racists if they speak out about it. If I were a TENURED social science professor, this is exactly what I would be studying. (If I were a TENURE TRACK professor, I suppose I'd write at length about how anyone who even SUGGESTED that blacks could make it on their own before the Civil Rights era is a total racist jerkhead.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45029864820497147092008-11-11T09:46:00.000-08:002008-11-11T09:46:00.000-08:00Actually, your comments are heavy on the 'semi' an...<I>Actually, your comments are heavy on the 'semi' and rather light on the 'informed'. Stuyvesant is located in upper-class Battery City Park Manhattan:</I><BR/><BR/>Yep, the earlier poster was confusing Stuyvesant and Bed-Stuy. (Quite a howler.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-75874987553927298222008-11-10T16:12:00.000-08:002008-11-10T16:12:00.000-08:00Klein's name is now being floated for Education Se...Klein's name is now being floated for Education Sec. in the Obama administration.Dennis Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03233729780363740881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-868671848283168782008-11-10T12:36:00.000-08:002008-11-10T12:36:00.000-08:00There is a science of psychology, and there is a "...There is a science of psychology, and there is a "liberal art" of psychology.<BR/><BR/>The science has been trapped by the liberal art in the same way that a fledgling bird might be trapped beneath a hippo.<BR/><BR/>Psychiatry is mostly nonsense, and large parts of psychology are nonsense. But part of psychological are scientific.<BR/><BR/>It's just that you can't speak of psychology as a whole as a science, because it contains too much incompatible with the scientific method.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-47966719134354265042008-11-10T11:40:00.000-08:002008-11-10T11:40:00.000-08:00prestopundit saidThis isn't "science" [...]Statist...prestopundit said<BR/><BR/><I>This isn't "science" [...]Statistics isn't a form of science, it's a form of mathematical logic. Applying statistics to human phenomena isn't "science"[...]You're making a pun here using the word "science", if you're trying to say this is natural science going on here.</I><BR/><BR/>That's true only if racial differences in intelligence are assumed not to be genetic. Genetics (in the widest sense) or eugenics are indeed sciences. The stats aren't random correlations, perhaps.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-66967702091708556782008-11-10T07:08:00.000-08:002008-11-10T07:08:00.000-08:00Anon, I agree with you. If trends continue, white...Anon, I agree with you. If trends continue, whites will be a minority by 2042. I take some solace from the fact that Asians will be 10% of the population by that time. This means that a majority of the population will still be from a culture that emphasizes hard work, education and middle-class values. I am less concerned about competition for my children getting in to Harvard than I am about them being victimized or seduced into joining the growing underclass of America.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67360549409913027942008-11-10T03:26:00.000-08:002008-11-10T03:26:00.000-08:00Reading this from England is very interesting, sin...Reading this from England is very interesting, since the whole premise of the original debate (ie 'gifted programs' in schools) is not applicable.<BR/> You see, previous Labour administrations in England outlawed 'educational selection' in state schools on the grounds that it 'promoted class division'In the 1960s and 50s before large scale non-White immigration, 'class' was as 'race'is to England as America. (the fact that England's eltie expensive fee-paying school were not affected by this legislation simply failed to register).<BR/> So therefore 90% of secodary education in England is done in 'mixed ability' classes with no streaming due to ability whatsoever - with dire consequences.<BR/> Strangely enough a few dozen selective 'grammar schools' survived the purge.These are now by far the best performing schools and the available places are very hotly contested.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-17232935031310447202008-11-09T20:38:00.000-08:002008-11-09T20:38:00.000-08:00Svigor, I wrote the comment you are replying to. ...Svigor, I wrote the comment you are replying to. I don't have a problem with whites wanting to preserve the "whiteness" of America, just as long as they can tolerate a reasonably small minority of undisruptive, successful Asians. Which is in fact, what most of them are. Besides, Asians have a very high rate of intermarrying with Whites, and their offspring will be White in culture, if not necessarily in appearance (and in all likelihood, will probably end up marrying Whites themselves, further diluting the Asian genes). That, plus the fact that it will always be harder to immigrate from Asia than from Latin America, will always keep the number of Asians in the U.S. negligible. So I really think the few WN's who specifically seem to have a problem with Asians are wasting their time and energy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64216354415616710902008-11-09T18:10:00.000-08:002008-11-09T18:10:00.000-08:00"A few semi-informed comments:...Stuyvesant is jus..."A few semi-informed comments:...Stuyvesant is just a part of Brooklyn where the black people are scary."<BR/><BR/>Actually, your comments are heavy on the 'semi' and rather light on the 'informed'. Stuyvesant is located in upper-class Battery City Park Manhattan:Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-66547399073265400902008-11-09T16:52:00.000-08:002008-11-09T16:52:00.000-08:00"Yeah I'm in one. Most university libraries close ..."Yeah I'm in one. Most university libraries close early on Friday and Sat. nights so it sounds like you are making stuff up."<BR/><BR/>I doubt American Goy is making anything up. I've known plenty of college libraries to be open late on Friday and Saturday nights, especially when there is cramming to be done (and a few that are open late the whole year). Libraries do sometimes respond to demand; if there are no Asian students may they're too empty those times to justify staying open. Many Asian students where you go?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50254056595459988712008-11-09T16:12:00.000-08:002008-11-09T16:12:00.000-08:00I wrote the #5 anon post and I apologize for being...I wrote the #5 anon post and I apologize for being rude to Steve.<BR/><BR/>Otherwise: I never said Asians were not intelligent. I said that their intelligence was different from whites. <BR/><BR/>Asian elites are good for the Asian nations. But Asian and/or Jewish elites will obviously transmogrify white nations and eventually lead to the destruction of white nations.<BR/><BR/>It all comes down to a question of whether white nations have the right to continued existence. And the answer from the alien elite is a resounding No! and the white nations are now to be repurposed according the whims of the Jewish/Asian elite. <BR/><BR/>I say the white nations have a right to continued existence as white nations, and the idea that these nations can only compete in the modern world if they import an alien elite is the most vicious, genocidal, Big Lie to ever come along. <BR/><BR/>And, because the scheme is a lie, it will ultimately fail, probably to the spectacular detriment of everyone all over the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78756564063338735532008-11-09T15:37:00.000-08:002008-11-09T15:37:00.000-08:00http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-i...<A HREF="http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html" REL="nofollow">http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49450158757500266982008-11-09T15:12:00.000-08:002008-11-09T15:12:00.000-08:00In contrast, high IQ whites are now raised to be "...<I>In contrast, high IQ whites are now raised to be "creative" and go into field such as advertising, creative design and urban planning and move to Williamsburg, Brooklyn.</I><BR/><BR/>http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/adg/910101343.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39040659479393677292008-11-09T13:02:00.000-08:002008-11-09T13:02:00.000-08:00Remember Columbus thought he was going to China, y...Remember Columbus thought he was going to China, yet when he met the Caribean Indians he immediately recognized them as not being Chinese.<BR/><BR/>The conventional theory of the origin of native Americans is that they are descended from Asiatics (Siberians) who migrated to the Western Hemispere about twelve thousand years ago. Presumably Han Chinese and Japanese are also descended from these same ancestral Asiatics.<BR/><BR/>Yet today, as you point out, in NYC schools the genetic contribution from these Siberians to so called Hispanics (largely American Indian) seems to make them stupid, whereas the Asiatic contribution to Chinese and Japanese deems to make them smart.<BR/><BR/>This suggests that what we now recognize as Asian IQ developed in the last ten thousand years or so in Asia. The Siberians who came to the Americas missed out on whatever was that transforming event.<BR/><BR/>What could it have been? I have no idea but I'm convinced that something happened.<BR/><BR/>Just as the evidence of classical writers like Vegetius suggests that the Jews were not always smart. So too the scores of those with a large measure of ancient Asiatic genes like Hispanics, suggests that Chinese and Japanese were not always smart.<BR/><BR/>We should be able to figure this out. We should be able to identify Jew smarts and the quite different Chinese smarts. After that we should be able to control it.<BR/><BR/>How much better would it be to pay off our guilt about the Indians by giving them Asian brains rather than gambling concessions?albertosaurushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13209465319904999278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52548997275542835922008-11-09T12:41:00.000-08:002008-11-09T12:41:00.000-08:00"One of the things I love about these kinds of art..."One of the things I love about these kinds of articles is they bring out the anti-Asian whites, although that is not the intent. The intent is to point out that efforts to raise black and hispanic achievement relative to whites and NAMs are futile due to inherent differences, and the powers that be look like idiots for failing to recognize it. But inevitably, some white nationalist (like anonymous post #5 above) puts on his white victim hat and tries to rationalize how "Asians aren't really that smart" when most empirical evidence suggests the contrary. Empirical evidence which I'm guessing Mr. White Nationalist would have no problem using to compare whites to hispanics and blacks."<BR/><BR/>While I diagree with #5's tone("screw you Steve"), I don't think what he was saying was that Asians weren't that smart. Rather, an Asian/Jewish dominated America would be different from a white one and some of these differences may not be diserable. To take a simple example, how much would an Asian dominated society value objective truth? What about the inherent disadvantages of diversity? And finally, is there any evidence that non-whites can be persuaded to think non-racially, a precondition for Sailer's "citizenism"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-43624978134107464502008-11-09T11:18:00.000-08:002008-11-09T11:18:00.000-08:00If drivel like this is what passes for "science" w...If drivel like <A HREF="http://www.halfsigma.com/2008/09/sarah-palins-iq-no-higher-than-110.html" REL="nofollow">this</A> is what passes for "science" with your friend Half Sigma, it would seem that there's been some self-delusional confusion of "science" with snobbery. Citing someone who can't tell the difference between personal bias and objective evaluation rather undermines your claims about the social sciences being "scientific."Keyser Sözehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07422083960323480070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65582916427125472122008-11-09T10:58:00.000-08:002008-11-09T10:58:00.000-08:00I agree. The science is pretty clear now that East...I agree. The science is pretty clear now that East Asians have an IQ of about 4 points above the white average. However, most East Asian families are raised in such competitive and nurturing environments that they perform way above their IQs and go into field such as engineering, computer science, etc. That is a wonderful thing! In contrast, high IQ whites are now raised to be "creative" and go into field such as advertising, creative design and urban planning and move to Williamsburg, Brooklyn. This seems to be happening in Western Europe as well.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-7062451269117062482008-11-09T10:24:00.000-08:002008-11-09T10:24:00.000-08:00Neurochemistry and molecular biology are hard scie...Neurochemistry and molecular biology are hard sciences. Psychology is not. The difference is that the first is based on measurable physical phenomenon. The second is not. Psychology can become a real science once the neurochemistry of the brain is understood and can then be linked to specific psychological states. This is only starting to occur. I expect psychology to become a real science by, say, 2030 or 2040. But it certainly is not right now.kurt9https://www.blogger.com/profile/02101147267959016924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-68725931517675840132008-11-09T09:29:00.000-08:002008-11-09T09:29:00.000-08:00Empirical evidence which I'm guessing Mr. White Na...<I>Empirical evidence which I'm guessing Mr. White Nationalist would have no problem using to compare whites to hispanics and blacks.</I><BR/><BR/>Don't pretend you can handle an informed WN in an argument. If you can, get a nick and sidle on over to majorityrights.com.<BR/><BR/>WNs don't want their family replaced with stupid blacks or brilliant yellows. What's so hard to understand about that? You don't want your family replaced either, you just have a different radius of family; gee, what a monumental distinction!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-18104009730437919562008-11-09T09:15:00.000-08:002008-11-09T09:15:00.000-08:00"One of the things I love about these kinds o..."One of the things I love about these kinds of articles is they bring out the anti-Asian whites, although that is not the intent. "<BR/><BR/>Oh, please, you mean the anti-White Asians. I knew something was dodgy with the blog as if it weren't dodgy enough already. So it's not that a group of children have taken charge but rather a group of Asians with their half-psycho solaris ways have assumed control. <BR/><BR/>Asians who send their children to Harvard law school so that they can become Constitution "experts", finding ways to prove the document allows for all kinds of authoritarian government intervention. Cause Asians have the authoritarian gene that won't be eradicated by any amount of education.<BR/><BR/>Kill yourselves now, whitey. The first thing those Asians do is outlaw fun.<BR/><BR/>"psychology is absolutely, positively real science. it is experiment, experiment, experiment, and then experiment some more. it is far more advanced than economics. it does real science on a continuous basis, digging into the nervous system with trial after trial, and then publishing the results in peer reviewed journals so other scientists can either tear the work to shreds or concur that it is valid."<BR/><BR/>Emphatic as your pro-psychology riffs have been over the past 24 hours, you've said absolutely nothing. I doubt you've had Psych 101 or even know the different branches of psychology or that a PhD in psychology would likely be a PhD in ___________ psychology or else not a PhD at all.<BR/><BR/>Smart as you think you are, Jody, you need more details & for that you will have to do some reading other than this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87301975310163566182008-11-09T09:10:00.000-08:002008-11-09T09:10:00.000-08:00Jody wrote: the greatest failure is psychology is ...Jody wrote: <I>the greatest failure is psychology is it's inability to get the message out that freud was wrong. so utterly and mind blowingly wrong about everything. and yet, freud is what the average person thinks about when they think of psychology.</I><BR/><BR/>Agreed, and if we look at areas of social science most relevant to education policy, disputes are over hypotheses involving human <I>groups</I> -- human ecologies -- sociology, political science and economics. For example, it is frequently and authoritatively asserted that one cannot pay attention to an individual's IQ because social, political and economic influences on that individual wash out any significance of IQ. If one points to mere <I>correlations</I> and <I>natural</I> as opposed to <I>controlled</I> experiments, the cavalcade of sophistic critiques available to them to "poke holes" in IQ-as-causal is virtually unlimited -- and they will avail themselves of them all with the full force of the Supreme Court and the 14th Amendment.Jim Boweryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12686155123469135528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-32548455913912259972008-11-09T08:59:00.000-08:002008-11-09T08:59:00.000-08:00jody said:"...the greatest failure is psychology i...jody said:<BR/><BR/><I><BR/>"...the greatest failure is psychology is it's inability to get the message out that freud was wrong. so utterly and mind blowingly wrong about everything. and yet, freud is what the average person thinks about when they think of psychology."<BR/></I><BR/>I have discussed Freud with several psychologists. All defended him. I took Psych 101 in college 15 years ago. Our prof spoke glowingly of Freud. Jody, are you involved in psychology professionally? If so, you would be the first such person I'm aware of who thinks that Freud was a fraud. Of course he WAS a fraud, but that's not the point. The point is that your views on him, while correct, seem to be out of step with what seem to be prevailing views in your field. How come no one is defrocking (so to speak) psychoanalists, for example? Why is Freudiansim tolerated in every major university's psychology department? Here I quote the Wikipedia's article on psychoanalysis: "Some psychoanalytic training has been set up as a post-doctoral fellowship in university settings, such as at Duke University, Yale University, New York University, Adelphi University, and Columbia University."<BR/><BR/>And the problems in psychology go far beyond Freud. Once, out of curiosity, I perused a book titled "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders". It is full of pseudo-science of the worst kind. No rigorous definitions of any terms, constant attempts to portray vaguely-described and mostly-harmless personality traits as deseases. Allusions to the "treatment" of such "deseases".<BR/><BR/><I><BR/>"...the amount of information that psychologists have discovered about the mind and brain in the last 100 years is huge. for things that are fairly well understood, like memory and learning, psychology can predict what people will do with a high degree of reliability."<BR/></I><BR/>I find that so hard to believe, Jody. It is my impression that almost nothing definite and non-trivial is known about the workings of the mind. I suspect that you're simply exaggerating here out of defensiveness. I don't have immediate access to the DSM, but I suspect that an overly defensive attitude of this type would be classified there as a desease in urgent need of treatment. ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34192506028021428072008-11-09T07:45:00.000-08:002008-11-09T07:45:00.000-08:00One of the things I love about these kinds of arti...One of the things I love about these kinds of articles is they bring out the anti-Asian whites, although that is not the intent. The intent is to point out that efforts to raise black and hispanic achievement relative to whites and NAMs are futile due to inherent differences, and the powers that be look like idiots for failing to recognize it. But inevitably, some white nationalist (like anonymous post #5 above) puts on his white victim hat and tries to rationalize how "Asians aren't really that smart" when most empirical evidence suggests the contrary. Empirical evidence which I'm guessing Mr. White Nationalist would have no problem using to compare whites to hispanics and blacks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30840771504970942442008-11-09T06:59:00.000-08:002008-11-09T06:59:00.000-08:00a new doctorate in psychology has done hundreds to...a new doctorate in psychology has done hundreds to thousands of hours of experimental design, data collection, and number crunching.<BR/><BR/>psychology is absolutely, positively real science. it is experiment, experiment, experiment, and then experiment some more. it is far more advanced than economics. it does real science on a continuous basis, digging into the nervous system with trial after trial, and then publishing the results in peer reviewed journals so other scientists can either tear the work to shreds or concur that it is valid.<BR/><BR/>the amount of information that psychologists have discovered about the mind and brain in the last 100 years is huge. for things that are fairly well understood, like memory and learning, psychology can predict what people will do with a high degree of reliability.<BR/><BR/>by far the greatest failure of psychology is not that it is not real science. it is so totally real science that it is not funny - it is slow, methodical, and boring. no, the greatest failure is psychology is it's inability to get the message out that freud was wrong. so utterly and mind blowingly wrong about everything. and yet, freud is what the average person thinks about when they think of psychology.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com