tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post6754075264316136685..comments2024-03-27T18:24:19.683-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: "I Quit Teach for America"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger89125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55312902345353667252013-09-25T20:16:44.760-07:002013-09-25T20:16:44.760-07:00Silver, I don't know who you are, but I do kno...Silver, I don't know who you are, but I do know that you are a silly ass who reads more into what I said than was actually there. <br /><br />I don't think all people are equal in the sense that you mean, i.e. I don't think that groups of people, as groups, are likely to have equal abilities. Nor do I think that "nurture" can make them equal in ability. I DO think that most or all children in the Western world today are very badly taught and fail to reach their potential, whatever that might be. <br /><br />The bad teaching may be the result of innate incompetence or inadequate training, but I strongly suspect that self-delusion, political correctness, laziness, and politics are also behind it. <br /><br />You appear to have mistaken me for an Education Progressive. <br /><br />Alias ClioAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-45548457410733702672013-09-25T19:33:00.153-07:002013-09-25T19:33:00.153-07:00The behavior of the students in these schools is a...<i>The behavior of the students in these schools is atrocious, and then some. You can't explain the whole thing with race, IQ, and all of that jazz. Culture is important, too.</i><br /><br />Where do you think the culture comes from?<br /><br />ben tillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-31999240797760718452013-09-25T17:45:05.852-07:002013-09-25T17:45:05.852-07:00The purpose of TFA can be explained via recourse t...The purpose of TFA can be explained via recourse to an old David Brooks article in City Journal on the NYT wedding page.<br /><br />The new upper class is richer than ever, but also feels more guilty about that. It is divided into "predators" (those who make the money) and "nurturers" (those who mitigate the bad effects of money grubbing on reputations).<br /><br />"Nurturers" are the various do-gooders like the TFA types. They have many options. They can simply marry a predator for the money. Then their nurturing gives him cache, and they get the money. They don't have to do TFA forever. They can transition to an easier nurturing job or else just quit altogether to raise their own kids. Two years in TFA is like two years in the Peace Corps, you are a sanctified Good Liberal Person for the rest of your life, even if you live off hedge fund money.<br /><br />Or, if the TFA student wants to become a predator herself, TFA's very selectivity is a HUGE help here. It helps get into elite jobs, Ivy business and law schools, and the like.<br /><br />TFA is part and parcel of what Steve describes as the elite making life easier for themselves. The very fact that they draw only from the upper, upper tier of elite schools and then pay nothing is instrumental to its purpose. Without some daddy money backing you up, you can't play.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-59130966270136017212013-09-25T16:37:20.218-07:002013-09-25T16:37:20.218-07:00Alias Clio,
"The problem with US education is...Alias Clio,<br />"The problem with US education is the constant threat of lawsuits from parents, which makes it impossible for teachers to teach without looking over their shoulder, and makes them cling to their unions for protection. Miss Blanchard actually mentions this issue, but you would have to read the article to know that."<br /><br />So what? Even if they could properly perform their jobs they would still be unable to make students perform equally. Students aren't equal. People aren't equal. They are just not equal. Never have been. Never will be. They are deeply unequal. Unequal, unequal, unequal. (And that's okay!) THAT, my dear, is the fundamental point. And until you can bring yourself to acknowledge it I couldn't care less about whatever brand new "wonder cures" you people dream up. Get it?Silvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-46020005345223684102013-09-25T15:22:03.084-07:002013-09-25T15:22:03.084-07:00Gringo, that's only natural, since the people ...Gringo, that's only natural, since the people creating and running both programs don't consider any of it "PC nonsense." To them, every bit of that is absolutely necessary to turn out properly sensitive, tolerant, capable teachers.Cail Corishevhttp://cailcorishev.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-68373782819449422942013-09-25T14:55:08.990-07:002013-09-25T14:55:08.990-07:00Bostonian @ 9/24/13, 7:15 PM linked to this articl...Bostonian @ 9/24/13, 7:15 PM linked to this article:<a href="http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_1_how_i_joined.html" rel="nofollow"><br />How I Joined Teach for America—and Got Sued for $20 Million</a>. This TFA recruit had similar opinion about the TFA training program: that it was too light on the nuts and bolts of basic teaching- what some cal Methods- and too heavy on PC fluff.<br /><br /><i>But the training program skimped on actual teaching and classroom-management techniques, instead overwhelming us with sensitivity training. My group spent hours on an activity where everyone stood in a line and then took steps forward or backward based on whether we were the oppressor or the oppressed in the categories of race, income, and religion. The program had a college bull session, rather than professional, atmosphere. And it had a college-style party line: I heard of two or three trainees being threatened with expulsion for expressing in their discussion groups politically incorrect views about inner-city poverty—for example, that families and culture, not economics, may be the root cause of the achievement gap.</i><br /><br />Having read from two different sources about shortcomings in TFA training- shortcomings which are inexcusable given its paltry five weeks- I conclude there is some truth to the claim that the TFA five week training course has its problems. It is also of note that these two critiques of the TFA training course are a decade apart, which lends credibility to the critiques.<br /><br />As a former teacher who has some strong criticisms of the traditional Ed School teacher training, it is interesting to see that an "Alternative" approach to teacher training replicates a lot of the mistakes of Ed School teacher training. Among the criticisms I had of my Ed School teacher training was that it needed more time spent on basic teaching methods and MUCH less time spent on PC nonsense. Which are both criticisms that these two former TFA recruits have made of the TFA teacher training program.Gringonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-15648484734817399922013-09-25T14:19:51.690-07:002013-09-25T14:19:51.690-07:00"There never was a good knife made from bad s..."There never was a good knife made from bad steel." - Benjamin Franklin<br /><br />Modern American educational theory is all about trying to make good knifes from bad steel. It can't be done.Melendwyrhttp://occludedsun.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73743743345914446192013-09-25T12:45:17.503-07:002013-09-25T12:45:17.503-07:00It looks as if people commenting here didn't p...It looks as if people commenting here didn't pay much attention to the article. Miss Blanchard, its author, is arguing that the training TFA teachers receive is so inadequate that they cannot do the jobs they are hired to do. She received little instruction in class discipline, little in lesson-planning, and hardly any classroom time. In addition, TFA teachers, she says, are placed with no regard for their majors. In other words (to contradict Steve Sailer) the program's results do not prove that nature supersedes nurture, among teachers, but the opposite. <br /><br />p.s. Trying to fix education by firing teachers whose students do poorly is a stupid idea, because it would encourage them to dumb down their lessons. The problem with US education is the constant threat of lawsuits from parents, which makes it impossible for teachers to teach without looking over their shoulder, and makes them cling to their unions for protection. Miss Blanchard actually mentions this issue, but you would have to read the article to know that. <br /><br />Alias ClioAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-89379029940247269632013-09-25T10:36:38.072-07:002013-09-25T10:36:38.072-07:00>Elite golf coaches would never go to public li...>Elite golf coaches would never go to public links, pick out random shlubs, and decide to coach them<<br /><br />You just made the career of some reality TV producer. <i>Stop giving the swipples bright ideas.</i> I say it over and over but does anyone listen...?<br /><br />>A question going unanswered is: why should they? What's in it for them? What incentive is used?<<br /><br />The incentive certainly isn't financial. TFA pays s--t.Davidhttp://david-passingparade2.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1091039396048186052013-09-25T10:17:58.818-07:002013-09-25T10:17:58.818-07:00"This guy seems to believe that stuff as well...<i>"This guy seems to believe that stuff as well:<br /><br />Why I moved my startup to Oakland"</i><br /><br />I'm not sure what to make of that. Oakland is a geographically huge city, and despite its reputation, 90% of the crime takes place in just two neighborhoods. The rest of the place is a normal middle-class city. It's hard to know whether this guy really means what he says, or whether he just wanted to score some PC points while covering up the fact that his move was motivated by his desire to pay lower rents and municipal taxes than he would in SF or San Jose. Anti-Democracy Activisthttp://antidem.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56052013975486104322013-09-25T08:31:53.335-07:002013-09-25T08:31:53.335-07:00How in hell does a modern society educate its youn...How in hell does a modern society educate its young? That's a tough one. <br /><br />I do not believe the British public school system is a good role model. It's basically pederastic. dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-31392881701970898992013-09-25T05:38:41.474-07:002013-09-25T05:38:41.474-07:00Anonymous: TFA has TREMENDOUS returns. Informally,...<b>Anonymous:</b> <i>TFA has TREMENDOUS returns. Informally, it has been explained to me that TFA is worth 7 LSAT points... for those outside of law, an interview at BigLaw is MASSIVE, they literally DO NOT recruit outside of a few very select schools. A TFA'er from the lower levels of the t14 has an unfathomable advantage...</i> <br /><br /><b>Alice:</b> <i>TFA founders are doing more for the Bell Curve argument than AmRen ever could... It is the red pill, but they didn't know it...</i> <br /> <br />Exactly.<br /><br />Darwin, meet Lamarck.<br /><br />Lamarck, meet Darwin.<br /><br />The great crossroads of Theory and Empiricism.<br /><br />Who ya gonna believe, The Canon or your very own lying eyes?<br /><br />The Lord works in mysterious ways.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-16468453921466713492013-09-25T05:30:36.231-07:002013-09-25T05:30:36.231-07:00"Anthony said...
Not really. While they look..."Anthony said...<br /><br />Not really. While they look for smarter teachers, they say they're looking for "more skilled" teachers - who've had the right sort of nurturing in college."<br /><br />Yes really. In what way are TFA teachers - fresh out of college, and never having taught - "more skilled"? Quite obviously, the implicit assumption made by the TFA screens is that these kids are smarter than the average teacher.Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-89667612524195855002013-09-25T05:27:55.556-07:002013-09-25T05:27:55.556-07:00"Anonymous said...
The behavior of the stude..."Anonymous said...<br /><br />The behavior of the students in these schools is atrocious, and then some. You can't explain the whole thing with race, IQ, and all of that jazz. Culture is important, too."<br /><br />And you imagine that culture has nothing to do with race? You can't explain the whole thing WITHOUT race. The prevalent socially-accepted way of looking at things is that race has no bearing - none at all.Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87686110381327977682013-09-25T04:33:15.954-07:002013-09-25T04:33:15.954-07:00This reminds me of the line from the movie "T...This reminds me of the line from the movie "The Big Chill" where one character mentions bailing on a public defender's job: <br /><br />"I didn't think they would be so guilty."rightsaidfredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14074128270057493787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-61312230198283854532013-09-25T01:45:54.519-07:002013-09-25T01:45:54.519-07:00Instead of Ivy League and liberal arts majors, TFA...Instead of Ivy League and liberal arts majors, TFA needs combat veterans. <br /><br />Discipline and intolerance of bad behavior are the key to raising test scores and having more functional schools. IQ has nothing to do with it. More discipline, more vouchers, and more expulsions of disruptive students would do it. Also, reduce single motherhood. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-28184091563826539802013-09-24T23:58:34.488-07:002013-09-24T23:58:34.488-07:00"Most teachers that make a difference do so b..."Most teachers that make a difference do so because they've spent 20+ years in one school. They've taught a thousand families' siblings. One of my kids' elementary teachers taught the father of my daughter's classmate."<br /><br />I had a teacher who had also taught my aunt. It gave me a warm feeling to know that. The teacher was competent and likable but not the best I ever had. I'd still rank her among the upper half of teachers with the ability to control or dampen the rebellious impulses of kids like me, ie kids who are not way out of control, but who will contribute to an atmosphere of mayhem if the teacher allows it but are also capable of shutting up and being very studious. Silvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-61051729660846767952013-09-24T21:37:22.713-07:002013-09-24T21:37:22.713-07:00The two year contract for TFA is a problem. A teac...The two year contract for TFA is a problem. A teacher won't even know how to navigate the supply closet for a year, much less make a meaningful impact on students.<br /><br />Something may come of the second year, but if they're now counting down the days until they can vamoose, how much good can they really do?<br /><br />Most teachers that make a difference do so because they've spent 20+ years in one school. They've taught a thousand families' siblings. One of my kids' elementary teachers taught the father of my daughter's classmate.rhonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-91337887820524146582013-09-24T21:29:35.322-07:002013-09-24T21:29:35.322-07:00my cousin now runs the entire TFA operation for on...my cousin now runs the entire TFA operation for one of america's largest cities. i mention her once in a while on here. i asked her about michelle rhee and she said she's met her and been in meetings with her, though that was back when rhee was on the east coast.<br /><br />her husband works for one of the major investment banks. he's a good guy, a southerner, who even served for a few years. but now he's going for the big bucks. needless to say, they're plugged into the elite machine which runs many of the cities in the US now. in a few years i'll have little in common with them.<br /><br />they are liberal do-gooders, and certainly not cultural marxists, but it's their circle of friends who will slowly change them over time from the people i know into...whatever it is that people become after they've been in political circles for too long in washington DC, new york city, chicago, los angeles, or san francisco.jodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64971474614690240322013-09-24T21:19:38.092-07:002013-09-24T21:19:38.092-07:00The Orwellian irony of TFA is outwardly its a do g...The Orwellian irony of TFA is outwardly its a do gooder program that benefits poor minorities; in reality it's a jobs program for smart upper class college grads who are increasingly having a tough time finding a job (good or otherwise ....). That it also carries high SWPL social status is icing on the cakeXavier R.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34416690908059331102013-09-24T20:40:11.070-07:002013-09-24T20:40:11.070-07:00I disagree. TFA is doing a service. It is allowing...I disagree. TFA is doing a service. It is allowing people to confront reality. TFA founders are doing more for the Bell Curve argument than AmRen ever could.<br /><br />Young, idealistic men and women coddled in their SWPL Ivies where institutional racism was the reason their black friends did so poorly join TFA and the scales fall from their eyes.<br /><br />They see that they spend hours a day teaching children the most basic math to have it be forgotten the next day. They see that 3 weeks later nothing is retained. They see how hopeless it is.<br /><br />They see that bad urban schools teaching SWPL constructivism *can never* teach the 2-digit IQers to function in the world, and they need some other form of basic direct unyielding instruction without high-faluting discussions or inquiry.<br /><br />It is a giant shot of reality into the arm. It is the red pill, but they didn't know it. It may not happen that first year, but it happens.<br /><br />Without TFA the illusions would never fail.Alicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-75575057943076169842013-09-24T20:38:57.134-07:002013-09-24T20:38:57.134-07:00I think a lot of the posters, and perhaps Steve hi...I think a lot of the posters, and perhaps Steve himself, doesn't get it. TFA has TREMENDOUS returns. <br />Informally, it has been explained to me that TFA is worth 7 LSAT points. That's the difference between Big State U and Harvard Law. That's the difference between a 100k ceiling and a 100k floor.<br />Places like the University of Chicago give out 30k scholarships PER YEAR for TFA grads. That's, basically, free law school. The present value of free law school is HUGE, especially when student loan rates are approaching 8% per annum.<br />Virginia offers half-off tuition.<br />Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft has aggressively recruited from TFA and offers assured interviews (for those outside of law, an interview at BigLaw is MASSIVE, they literally DO NOT recruit outside of a few very select schools. A TFA'er from the lower levels of the t14 has an unfathomable advantage)<br />I don't know much about the MBA admissions process, but I bet you find a similar element going on. <br />It's not that they sign on blind and idealistic, it's *much* more mercenary than thatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-15024778429255798032013-09-24T19:50:34.860-07:002013-09-24T19:50:34.860-07:00>TFA is not necessarily still composed of Ivy L...>TFA is not necessarily still composed of Ivy League >grads<br /><br />...any longer. That wasn't true a decade ago.<br /><br />>And to those of you asking what is in it for them: a <br />>respectable job and steady income when most of <br />>their peers are struggling. <br /><br />Also, TFA still has the reputation of only taking Ivy League/high-achieving types. So if you can get in out of state school with mediocre grades, at the end of your brief tenure, you will be able to pass as something better than what you are.Ichabod Cranenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72448685382710961552013-09-24T19:44:19.431-07:002013-09-24T19:44:19.431-07:00Right - he even had another book published last ye...Right - he even had another book published last year, at 97. Dave Pinsenhttp://twitter.com/dpinsennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21508007417655413432013-09-24T19:27:29.999-07:002013-09-24T19:27:29.999-07:00It is really pretty funny that progressives claim ...It is really pretty funny that progressives claim to think that the achievement gap is not due to either NAM IQs or the quality of classroom teachers. There really is nothing else that matters, but to be a progressive you have to deny both.<br /><br />But it would be easy to raise NAM test scores (half or a full standard deviation) for individual groups. The tests are so dumbed down that test scores against history or against other groups would be certain to go up radically.<br /><br />Here are the ingredients -- essentially take education out from under the dead hand of government and introduce individual choice.<br /><br />1) Get rid of unions so teachers could be managed like every other employee in the private sector, rewarded when they do well and fired when they don't.<br />2) Let schools compete for students and admit only the ones they want. (You could finance via vouchers if you want.)<br />3) Let schools expel disruptive students.<br /><br />Of course, if you implemented these changes universally then the IQ gap would come back, but everybody would be at a much higher level of performance.<br /><br />But I think Progressives really want a Harrison Bergeron solution. Steve in Greensboronoreply@blogger.com