tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post6761811520437473102..comments2024-03-29T05:14:33.223-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Bill James Sold His SoulUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger82125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-78867763876083324322012-09-10T14:45:16.247-07:002012-09-10T14:45:16.247-07:00I think the 6'4" Canseco might fall into ...<i>I think the 6'4" Canseco might fall into this category. I notice that there seem to be more very tall players even though, according to the NCHS, Americans haven't changed much in stature since the 1950 birth cohort.</i><br /><br />While on Wolframalpha looking up Body Mass Index ( Kgs / cms squared OR Lbs * 711 / inches squared) and 24 and 26 were the same height whereas when Quetelet created the index 25 was the cut off point for calling in people to see if they were overweight.<br /><br />Has the population gotten bigger? The measure was thought up in the 1920s which is a few decades after 5' 6" was the average height in the British Army.<br /><br />Or did the original sample size suffer from being too small?<br /><br />I recall 8945 being the sample size the current numbers are based on when wandering around the site before.<br /><br /><a href="http://www2.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP8531a34237c9c35c8a500002g472a78cdidc182?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=11&w=484&h=259" rel="nofollow">Wolframalpha data</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49873151334243819062012-09-10T14:04:56.460-07:002012-09-10T14:04:56.460-07:00"BTW, someone's comment about Canseco got...<i>"BTW, someone's comment about Canseco got me to wondering this: does steroid use actually help or hinder speed?"<br /><br />More muscle = greater power to weight ratio = more speed. Think Ben Johnson and many other Olympic sprinters. (Probably also Usain Bolt - 2007 - 165 lbs. 10.03 100m personal best; 2008 - 200 lbs. 9.69 100m personal best. Bolt is probably another example of juicing allowing an unusually tall person to make better use of the leverage in his fram (he's 6'5", unheard of for a sprinter)).</i><br /><br />Bonds stole less bases when he came back the Home Run hitting Linebacker though some would say that was because he was not getting on base as often and slowing with age.<br /><br />1998 as a 33 year old Canseco stole 29 bases and was caught stealing 17 times which was his last time putting up big totals though he was 4 SB 0 CS as a 30 year old in 102 games 96 games as a 31 year old produced 3 SB 1 CS and 8 SB 2 CS in 108 games as a 33 year old.<br /><br />As a 28 year old in 1993 was the last time Barry Bonds had more SB than HR.<br /><br />As always statistics illuminate but also cast deceiving shadows.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-59186415969282919102009-09-03T08:57:59.516-07:002009-09-03T08:57:59.516-07:00erica said...
"Barry Bonds, and some of ...<i> erica said...<br /><br /> "Barry Bonds, and some of the other juicers, will probably end up having heart disease, prostate cancer, and a host of other androgen-related long-term disorders in their fifties and sixties. Just wait."<br /><br /> Lyle Alzado come to mind.<br /><br /> 8/08/2009</i><br /><br />Lyle Alzado's brain cancer was NOT caused by steroids, you ignoramus! Look it up; NONE of his doctors said that the tumor was a result of steroids. On top of that, there have been no long term epidemiological studies on steroids, like there have been with crack, heroin, coke, meth, etc. Could it be because steroids are NOT a public health problem, and a cause of daily street crime? You may also know that most steroid users are college-educated white men, hardly the type to rob people for a fix.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-18243877463326213342009-09-03T08:39:53.492-07:002009-09-03T08:39:53.492-07:00"I'm not a doctor or a scientist....liver..."I'm not a doctor or a scientist....liver damage...." . You know nothing about steroids, yet you're passing judgement on their use, swallowing govt. propaganda and media hysteria (liver damage is rare and only common with oral steroids--look it up). <br /><br />I personally think that this whole furor over steroids is a bunch of nerdy, unathletic sports writer engaging in sermonizing about the so-called honor and nostalgia of professional sports. It's all BS.<br /><br />You should watch the documentary "Bigger, Faster, Stronger". The maker interviews Henry Waxman, who proceeds to not even know the drinking age in America.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-5320624935932187072009-08-11T13:28:45.936-07:002009-08-11T13:28:45.936-07:00James and just about ALL commentators, especially ...James and just about ALL commentators, especially at ESPN have moral blinders on. Baseball was more important than it being just a game - it was the American pastime. Maybe it isn't anymore, but its importance to America is not diminished. It stood for tradition (stats going back over 100 years) and culture. To sever that link by "allowing" performance enhancing substances, lazer surgery, hyped up bats, juiced balls, levered arm supports, and Little League outfield dimensions only shows what our culture has become. <br />The obtuse and greedy Commissioner Selig paid himself $17 million last year to award himself on his ability to suppress the scandal over the last two decades. <br /><br />The deadbeats who cheated wronged not only their peers and fans, but they cheapened the traditions of the past and threatened the hopes of the future. Steroids and other issues are more than just cheating at baseball. Those who participated and/or acquiesced in the activity are guilty of true un-American activity. Those who played before this era have been disrespected.<br /><br />The managers are just as guilty and they should be denied public approval. I am waiting for a major leaguer to say that he would not allow himself to be inducted into Hall of Fame because the institution has been corrupted. The rot began when induction to the Hall of Fame allowed exceptions to major league service for Negro League players in the interests of Political Correctness under another moral leper Bowie Kuhn. And I am waiting for some of these clean players to suit the cheaters. <br /><br />Latin ballplayers will frequently "deny" use of steroids and then get caught - Palmeiro, Sosa, etc. Their culture like most of the non-western world sanctions lying in their own interests and those of one's family. They reject moral universals. Get the Gringos' money, amigo!Rick Johnsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-33292136768336886082009-08-10T17:22:39.196-07:002009-08-10T17:22:39.196-07:00"There was college player in the 80's nam..."There was college player in the 80's named Tony Madarich(sp?)"<br /><br />Stuff white people like #1,112<br /><br />Putting (sp?) after a word they have probably misspelled but are too lazy to look up.<br /><br />White people love to show off their knowledge of arcane trivia by commenting on blog threads, they do not however like being the target of other white posters who are "spelling flame sharks." <br /><br />Often replying from the office (graphic design, a community newspaper or the marketing department of a microbrewery), they should be working but are addicted like moths to a flame to the latest rather negligible topic. They reply quickly with no time to edit as they are terrified of the boss sneaking up upon them seeing Motherjones.com, the Huffingtonreport.com or Isteve.blogspot.com on their computer, so they use the (sp?) designation as a literary way of saying:<br /><br />"DON'T FLAME ME BRO!"Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-31316029256976315252009-08-10T14:11:58.196-07:002009-08-10T14:11:58.196-07:00Few NFL players are on steroids. The NFL has had ...Few NFL players are on steroids. The NFL has had stringent testing since the 80's. A couple guys get caught every year but most are too smart to risk it. MLB was irresponsible to wait so long to introduce serious testing of their own. <br /><br /><br />There was college player in the 80's named Tony Madarich(sp?) who was totally dominant at that level. He had good natural ability but he was also using massive amounts of steroids and switching urine for the tests. When he got to the NFL, he knew he would not be able to beat the league's tougher testing regimen, so he stopped taking the steroids and showed up at camp smaller and weaker than he had been in college. He played poorly and washed out of the league after a couple years, then made a comeback in 90's, where has won a starting spot played decently for several seasons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-71660574346060802912009-08-10T10:24:49.713-07:002009-08-10T10:24:49.713-07:00Why is baseball getting all the heat when roids ha...Why is baseball getting all the heat when roids have been used in football and other sports for decades? Is this "innocence lost" for it's devoted? Does anybody believe a 6'2, 330 lb lineman that runs the 40 in under 6 seconds gets like that purely from training and being corn-fed? Leave MLB alone unless your prepared to apply the same standards to other pro sports performed at the highest level. <br /><br />I say this as a hater of all things MLB, particularity it's fan base of statistics crazy, nerdy jock-sniffers like Bob Costas and that it is played during the hottest time of the year in primarily the most humid locales.Marc Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15526121114466617234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-18392813074422916862009-08-09T13:37:45.769-07:002009-08-09T13:37:45.769-07:00We're talking about steroids in sports. Can yo...<i>We're talking about steroids in sports. Can you kooky techno-fetishists please keep your obsession out of this? It has nothing to do with sports.</i><br /><br />Uh, you need some discernment my friend. The distinction you're looking for is between "sports," which is a ruthless and extremely lucrative business, no, an <i>industry</i>, and "athletics," which is a hobby designed to instill virtues of fitness, discipline and teamwork. I trust you have the same level of outrage for the greatest obscenities of them all: college football and basketball.<br /><br />Granted it takes fitness, discipline and teamwork to win a World Series but the end sought is the same as for any business: mounds and mounds of do-re-mi. <br /><br />If you want to "clean up" sports, then you will have to return it to its roots as an amateur pursuit for the leisure class. At the least, you'll need it to be a strictly patronage arrangement, where sponsors pay the expenses of people willing to play and coach the game for its own sake when they're not at their real jobs. <br /><br />Hell, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and I'd leave everything I had out on the field every effing game. But I wouldn't do it nearly as well as the pro's do it and that doesn't make for good TV. And of course, good TV is what it's all about.The Anti-Gnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04386593803225823789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6791493836085920672009-08-09T13:14:34.388-07:002009-08-09T13:14:34.388-07:00--High androgen levels are unnatural and not good ...--High androgen levels are unnatural and not good for you.-- <br /><br />Define high and define "not good for you." <br /><br />--for instance I don't think there's any good study out there about the effect of steroid use on life expectancy-- <br /><br />Just how do you plan to conduct such a study? There are so many steroids and limitless usage protocols. Therefore, you cannot definitively study the subject. We do know, however, that high normal testosterone is associated with higher quality of life. The only way most men will maintain high normal levels is through steroids. <br /><br /><br />--Suppose a sports player has the subjective judgment that he doesn't want to screw with the natural androgen levels in his body, because he doesn't want to turn into a circus sideshow. Is it right that he is at a disadvantage?-- <br /><br />Who cares if he is at a disadvantage. That is between the player and the league. I care only about yahoos who use the plight of athletes to advocate against the rights of the general population. <br /><br /><br />--but let's just take the side effects everyone agrees about--<br /><br />What side affects have universal agreement? I know of not one. You might be of the false belief that all steroids are the same and that all are used in such a way to induce negative health affects, but I know differently.Zylonetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-54966559996125686012009-08-09T09:52:45.079-07:002009-08-09T09:52:45.079-07:00"BTW, someone's comment about Canseco got..."BTW, someone's comment about Canseco got me to wondering this: does steroid use actually help or hinder speed?"<br /><br />More muscle = greater power to weight ratio = more speed. Think Ben Johnson and many other Olympic sprinters. (Probably also Usain Bolt - 2007 - 165 lbs. 10.03 100m personal best; 2008 - 200 lbs. 9.69 100m personal best. Bolt is probably another example of juicing allowing an unusually tall person to make better use of the leverage in his fram (he's 6'5", unheard of for a sprinter)).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12954433461961206962009-08-09T08:04:44.722-07:002009-08-09T08:04:44.722-07:00A few random reactions to points in this thread:
...A few random reactions to points in this thread:<br /><br />Steroids don't get you anywhere by themselves. Steroids plus a brutal workout regime get you ahead. So athletes who were juicing probably found it very easy to rationalize what they were doing. They ALL worked hard.<br /><br />Barry Bonds is a jerk, and as far as I know always has been. But it's hard not to feel sympathy for a guy who was a first-ballot hall of famer as non-juicer and only started using after getting overshadowed by McGwire and Sosa. <br /><br />I have Bill James' 2001 Baseball Almanac, and I treasure it (though even for 2001, he has a blind spot for steroids). If I had to guess, I would say he was right of center politically and had definite moral standards. We always need to be careful of assuming that, because someone doesn't condemn something we oppose, he has no standards at all.<br /><br />Re the people who want to see steroids legalized in baseball, it's going to take a long time, if ever. There is no thought of legalizing PEDs in track, because track is all about records. On the other hand, steroids don't create much controversy in football, because records mean very little. The importance of records in baseball is much closer to their importance in track than in football. Fans will not accept records that are the product of steroids.keypusherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07176947522040838625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-85133278604608257582009-08-08T23:21:59.029-07:002009-08-08T23:21:59.029-07:00Zylonet, I'm curious as to how you can quote m...Zylonet, I'm curious as to how you can quote me saying "HGH has side effects" and then ask incredulously "HGH has no side effects? I don't think so."<br /><br />High androgen levels are unnatural and not good for you. You can say that the health dangers are exaggerated, I don't think the subject has been studied exhaustively (for instance I don't think there's any good study out there about the effect of steroid use on life expectancy), but let's just take the side effects everyone agrees about, and admit that whether or not these are acceptable is a subjective judgment each man should make for himself.<br /><br />Suppose a sports player has the subjective judgment that he doesn't want to screw with the natural androgen levels in his body, because he doesn't want to turn into a circus sideshow. Is it right that he is at a disadvantage?<br /><br />Those are the people for whom rules about PED's exist - not the fans, who are generally callous bastards that couldn't give a rat's ass if a player tears his body to pieces so long as he performs, and not the enthusiastic juicers who don't care about the costs of juicing up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-19939037592421111652009-08-08T23:04:50.022-07:002009-08-08T23:04:50.022-07:00The stupidity on this comment thread is unbelievab...The stupidity on this comment thread is unbelievable.<br /><br />Nobody gives a flying "F" that baseball players damage THEMSELVES by using steroids.<br /><br />The problem is BASEBALL IS A COMPETITION. If your competitor is using steroids - you have to start using them or suffer the consequences. The end result is men who normally wouldn't use it are pressured into using it.<br /><br />Lets let the pitcher scuff up the ball and spit on it. Let batters use any bat they want and let the fielders use any kind of mitt - that's Libertarianism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-80729269760537376422009-08-08T20:58:12.018-07:002009-08-08T20:58:12.018-07:00--Anyone who thinks all this steroid use is just p...--Anyone who thinks all this steroid use is just peachy either doesn't know what these drugs do, or knows just a little too well, and is defending it for personal reasons. Or...is very confused about something. i.e. libertarian.<br /><br />HGH I can see; it has side effects but it doesn't turn you into a freak show. Steroids not only shrink your junk, give you acne and maybe reduce your average life expectancy, they make a lot of guys piss brown (and some have trouble pissing period), and I think they increase body odor as well.--<br /><br />HGH doesn't have side affects? Taken at high doses, it surely does. Check Google. <br /><br />As for testosterone and testicular shrinkage, I wonder why one man would concern himself with the testicles of another man. In any regards, testosterone supplementation does not always reduce testicle volume and volume is easily maintained with HCG. <br /><br />The therapeutic values of TRT are profound, while risks are far lower than alcohol usage. What many people fail to consider is that all drugs must be used responsibly. Idiots like Jose Canseco suffer because they are stupid to begin with. Who cares if he has suffered from misuse; that is his problem. Tylenol has been known for years to cause liver damage, but only recently are there any positive movements towards educating consumers. This should be your first clue that the government should not be trusted for accurate information. <br /><br />For those actually interested in learning the truth about steroids here are some interesting articles: <br /><br />This article demonstrates the degree of stupidity surrounding androgen therapy. <br />http://www.mesomorphosis.com/blog/2009/06/24/middle-aged-german-man-on-hormone-replacement-therapy-arrested-flying-into-florida/<br /><br />Joe Biden as the talentless hack that he is and possibly choosing to advocate against androgen therapeutics because of his inferiority complex: <br />http://www.mesomorphosis.com/blog/2008/08/26/joseph-biden-and-criminalization-of-anabolic-steroids/Zylonetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52019924142694935952009-08-08T20:34:26.173-07:002009-08-08T20:34:26.173-07:00--but deny other men similar enhancement.
Okay, ...--but deny other men similar enhancement. <br /><br />Okay, I'm totally uninformed so don't bite my head off, but...<br />Isn't the difference between surgery or corrective lenses and potentially dangerous drugs a non-trivial one?<br />Theoretically, if doctors sign off on enhancers, I say fine, but have they or should they? I don't want pro sports to be a situation where guys have to shoot junk to compete.<br />In other words, if there REALLY IS no difference, as you say, then I say fine, but I'm going to need convincing. Why aren't PEDs flying out over the counter?<br />~Svigor --<br /><br />Svigor, all drugs are potentially dangerous as are most human behaviors. Calling some drugs PEDs, but not others is also intellectually dishonest. Aspirin is a major PED so is Sudafed. If you want to increase your endurance, then pop two Sudafed and take some Advil. Painkillers are regularly used by pro athletes to fantastic effect and they are rarely referred to as PEDs. Since it is clear that certain drugs are singled-out and re-defined, you can bet that it's pure bunk. I am not an expert on why some people crusade against testosterone supplementation except to say that many people are highly intolerant. <br /><br />Regarding your last question, as to why PEDs are not flying off the shelves, they are when you consider aspirin, sudafed and similar drugs. Anabolics, however, do not fly from the shelves because they are now listed as a controlled substance. Their listing as such is a crime against humanity. Until you do the research you cannot imagine how many millions of men are suffering from lack of access to androgen therapy.zylonetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82219272495432369412009-08-08T18:50:26.260-07:002009-08-08T18:50:26.260-07:00Anyone who thinks all this steroid use is just pea...Anyone who thinks all this steroid use is just peachy either doesn't know what these drugs do, or knows just a little too well, and is defending it for personal reasons. Or...is very confused about something. i.e. libertarian.<br /><br />HGH I can see; it has side effects but it doesn't turn you into a freak show. Steroids not only shrink your junk, give you acne and maybe reduce your average life expectancy, they make a lot of guys piss brown (and some have trouble pissing period), and I think they increase body odor as well.<br /><br />But I suppose it really isn't fair to single out steroids. What about the surgical side of sports medicine? It too has the purpose of making people into sports-playing machines without much concern for the long-term health of the man being redesigned.<br /><br />And to say that these guys "choose it" because they "want to be the best" is just dumb. If nobody could get away with juicing, nobody would feel pressured to juice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65742789433705194252009-08-08T11:17:53.530-07:002009-08-08T11:17:53.530-07:00James Kabala said,
"In fairness, it was McG...James Kabala said, <br /><br />"In fairness, it was McGwire (and Sosa) who 'smashed' the record with the jump from 61 to 70; Bonds then made only a slight advance to 73."<br /><br />You are right, it was. Everyone should have known then that something was beyond fishy. Sports writers knew, but either they or they and their editors were not about to dump cold water on baseball's comeback from the strike. Perhaps writers were intimidated into not writing about what they knew, but more likely, they went along for the historical ride.<br /><br />When Barry surpassed McGwire, they were even surer. There was talk the year of McGwire and Sosa about a juiced ball (there's always talk in baseball about dead ball years versus live ball years), but I think all dead serious baseball fans knew something was wrong.<br /><br />In my family we had talked of Canseco and McGwire's bodies for years. Then, when Barry's face turned totally round and his ...we knew.<br /><br />The "journalists" of baseball are the like the "journalists" covering the Chosen One today--enablers, obfuscators.ericanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82378778694459404782009-08-08T11:09:31.740-07:002009-08-08T11:09:31.740-07:00Ian said,
"You mentioned that Jose Canseco ...Ian said, <br /><br />"You mentioned that Jose Canseco worked out like a fiend too. But El Hermano del Bash was not as good at baseball as Bonds was"<br /><br />Didn't say he was. Would never be idiotic to suggest it, even.<br /><br />However, Ian, I was addressing your point that it seemed unfair to you that Barry was the "poster boy" of the steroid era.<br /><br />In route to answering your question, I addresed another point of yours--that Barry worked hard. Well, okay, but as I pointed out, so did others. However, neither your comment about hard work not mine in response to it is either here or there when it comes to addressing why Bonds remains the poster boy.<br /><br />It's simple. Baseball fans, even those whose love has the breadth and depth beyond the casual fan's interest, prize the long ball records. The sluggers are the ones that live atop the summit of our mythology. Perhaps three-quarters up the mountain come the great pitchers, then the high average hitters, then the speed demons like Henderson and Brock, then the great fielders. The positions of all of these greats on the mountain of baseball history are debabate. What is not debatable is who is atop the mountain in the lore of the game--the long ball hitters. Bonds knew that too. I am sure he was not about to let the McGwires and Sosas of the world sit higher atop that mountain than he since they couldn't begin to carry his bat for him.<br /><br />That is why Barry is the poster boy even as revelations involving others reveal the scope of abusers.<br /><br />BTW, someone's comment about Canseco got me to wondering this: does steroid use actually help or hinder speed? Yes, I know steroids help the user bounce back more quickly from injury and so if someone like Canseco has a 40-40 season, the steroids would have helped him recover more quickly from some injuries he had, enabling him to appear in more games so that he could steal more bases... but what does steroid use do to speed? Can anyone answer?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44243633804243020032009-08-08T10:41:44.112-07:002009-08-08T10:41:44.112-07:00"Barry Bonds, and some of the other juicers, ..."Barry Bonds, and some of the other juicers, will probably end up having heart disease, prostate cancer, and a host of other androgen-related long-term disorders in their fifties and sixties. Just wait."<br /><br />Lyle Alzado come to mind.ericanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52781298696548265352009-08-08T10:17:36.586-07:002009-08-08T10:17:36.586-07:00I'd like to thank whoever wrote this (it was v...I'd like to thank whoever wrote this (it was very interesting, and probably the best explanation on the effect of roids' on certain performers that Ive ever seen):<br /><br /><br /><br />"2) I get the impression that muscle building PEDs may be helping players at extremes of stature more than average sized players. They probably help very big/tall people exploit the leverage in their bodies (increase a levers length and rotate it at the same speed from the pivot point and velocity at the end of the lever is faster), whereas unjuiced, they may not be able to move, swing, and throw with enough athleticism because they weren't strong enough to move their bodies well (longer levers = more torque and muscle contraction power increases as a function of cross-sectional area whereas weight increase with volume). I think the 6'4" Canseco might fall into this category. I notice that there seem to be more very tall players even though, according to the NCHS, Americans haven't changed much in stature since the 1950 birth cohort. I also think juice helps little fellers like Lenny Dykstra who would otherwise lack the size and strength to play the game. Without PEDs I suspect that the top players would tend to fall more in the average to high average stature category with a sturdy, compact physique (e.g., Mantle 5'11"/198 lbs., Mays 5'11", 180 lbs., Bonds pre-roids 6'1" 185 lbs.)"<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />By the way............does anybody remember the force that was Juan Gonzalez for a few years (Texas Rangers), and how he fell off the planet when he could no longer juice? Man that guy fell apart. Ken Caminiti literally fell apart physically. <br /><br />I dont think a man should have to risk his health to merely keep up in a sport by taking hormone alterning-testicle-shrinking-heart-disease-promoting-acne-inducing-behavior-affecting-kidney-and-liver-straining drugs. Should we allow for doping of racehorces? I dont think we should either. <br /><br /><br />It would be different if it were women that we were watching roid' up. When we seen them going bald, growing facial hair, losing their ability to have children, making them very man-like in appearance, we would then all say: "Softball isn't this important". I, and I might be one of the few, dont think baseball is all that important. <br /><br /><br />I dont think the long-term of effects of HGH and roids will be known until the current generation of ballplayers reach their mid-60's. I imagine that many of them wont, or will be unhealthy at that time. mAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65634250676262228452009-08-08T09:40:41.342-07:002009-08-08T09:40:41.342-07:00The reason steroids are controversial is because w...<i>The reason steroids are controversial is because we have foolishly accepted the notion that there can be no technological improvement in man.</i> <br /> <br /><br /><br /><br />We're talking about steroids in sports. Can you kooky techno-fetishists please keep your obsession out of this? It has nothing to do with sports.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22995210263140552212009-08-08T03:08:59.746-07:002009-08-08T03:08:59.746-07:00Let's not equivocate on the pitching vs. hitti...Let's not equivocate on the pitching vs. hitting argument.<br /><br />Juiced pitchers and juiced batters both result in harder-hit balls. It might be tough to get good wood on a 99-mph fastball, but any contact you do make will be thunderous. And that doesn't even take into account all of the successful junkballers, who don't reap any benefits from juicing.<br /><br />Also, the harmful effects of steroids on juiced pitchers are probably greater than those on juiced hitters. Hitters might strain an oblique every now and then, but pitchers routinely blow out their arms permanently with torque from muscles that their body couldn't have developed naturally.<br /><br />Yes, steroids probably prolonged the careers of a few power pitchers like Clemens. But they have probably destroyed many more pitching careers than they have saved.<br /><br />It's obvious from the statistics that power hitters benefited tremendously from the Steroid Era. Let's not pretend that widespread steroids evened everything out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-75643436019796766782009-08-08T01:18:12.454-07:002009-08-08T01:18:12.454-07:00"Yeah, but that's textbook libertarian at..."Yeah, but that's textbook libertarian atheism; what, you expect him to be forthright about his politics?"<br /><br />Eh, on the contrary, libertarians tend to mention that fact at every opportunity. I'm not sure "leftist" equals "libertarian" either.<br /><br />"A guy breaks... no, check that...SMASHES the single season HR record"<br /><br />In fairness, it was McGwire (and Sosa) who "smashed" the record with the jump from 61 to 70; Bonds then made only a slight advance to 73.James Kabalahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02335302113772004687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-24905769867833077522009-08-07T22:00:06.628-07:002009-08-07T22:00:06.628-07:00"I bet Canseco would have never bulked up muc..."I bet Canseco would have never bulked up much without the roids, and would have been a merely 6-4' 215 lb average hitter (.250's anyone) that merely hit perhaps 20-25 homeruns per year), with average speed."<br /><br />It's an interesting point you point out. I've always suspected that juicing changed the pecking order of who was good and primarily in two areas:<br /><br />1) People react differently to most drugs, PEDs probably help some athletes more than others.<br /><br />2) I get the impression that muscle building PEDs may be helping players at extremes of stature more than average sized players. They probably help very big/tall people exploit the leverage in their bodies (increase a levers length and rotate it at the same speed from the pivot point and velocity at the end of the lever is faster), whereas unjuiced, they may not be able to move, swing, and throw with enough athleticism because they weren't strong enough to move their bodies well (longer levers = more torque and muscle contraction power increases as a function of cross-sectional area whereas weight increase with volume). I think the 6'4" Canseco might fall into this category. I notice that there seem to be more very tall players even though, according to the NCHS, Americans haven't changed much in stature since the 1950 birth cohort. I also think juice helps little fellers like Lenny Dykstra who would otherwise lack the size and strength to play the game. Without PEDs I suspect that the top players would tend to fall more in the average to high average stature category with a sturdy, compact physique (e.g., Mantle 5'11"/198 lbs., Mays 5'11", 180 lbs., Bonds pre-roids 6'1" 185 lbs.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com