tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post7176037935452080943..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Carlos Slim getting his money's worth out of NYTUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger111125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-15384424812836593892010-04-23T17:05:29.877-07:002010-04-23T17:05:29.877-07:00Even a casual glance at the data, as opposed to yo...Even a casual glance at the data, as opposed to your silly college report, shows that lawyers earn significantly more than engineers.<br /><br />Well, I expalained it once, and I will try it once, AND ONLY ONCE more. Being an attorney takes AN ADVANCED DEGREE. Being an engineer DOES NOT. Many attorneys have BS degrees in engineering. Please compare APPLES TO APPLES and compare lawyers to engineers with grad. degrees.<br /><br />For those of you who are engineers making $16.22 an hour, don't blame the field, blame your lack of guts to ask for a fucking raise!Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34550876521934561022010-04-22T19:10:55.355-07:002010-04-22T19:10:55.355-07:00"Captain Jack Aubrey said...
By focussing on..."Captain Jack Aubrey said...<br /><br />By focussing on first year salary you only ignore about 40 years of a professional career."<br /><br />Good point, and as usual "Truth" reached for a convenient though irrelevant point. The list he links to was for starting salaries, not career average or lifetime earnings. And anyway, a lot of engineers don't have 40 year long careers. They may work for twenty years, get laid off in their mid forties, and end up working at Home Depot. That's a not uncommon career arc nowadays.Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-52522043212267201902010-04-22T16:37:51.973-07:002010-04-22T16:37:51.973-07:00"This seems to be your favorite tactic - reph..."This seems to be your favorite tactic - rephrase what was said into something you can argue against."<br /><br />Exactly. That was why Twoof altered anonymous' "There is no neccessary correlation between the average age of a population and the cost of goods and services," to a sneering "A connection between labor costs and prices?" in a patently dishonest attempt to make the poster look foolish.kudzu bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00865247508134005274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-81302281063925863202010-04-22T09:29:04.505-07:002010-04-22T09:29:04.505-07:00Engineering grads may have higher starting salarie...<i> Engineering grads may have higher starting salaries than lawyers ..</i> <br /> <br /><br />They don't, according to the BLS data.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-1697399830355676492010-04-22T09:26:52.076-07:002010-04-22T09:26:52.076-07:00"They don't pay engineers "so much m...<i>"They don't pay engineers "so much money", you loon. If they did all the smart white people would be becoming engineers instead of lawyers."</i> <br /><br /><br /><i>The top 10 Highest paying college majors.</i> <br /><br /><i>Well what a shock! Nairy a Fine arts, Humanities, or Philosphy degree in the bunch, and engineers are nine of the top ten.</i> <br /> <br /><br /><br />This seems to be your favorite tactic - rephrase what was said into something you can argue against. Nothing was said about "Fine arts, Humanities, or Philosphy degree"s. You just injected that into the discussion because you were losing the one we were having. <br /><br />Even a casual glance at the data, as opposed to your silly college report, shows that lawyers earn significantly more than engineers.<br /><br />http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm#earnings<br /><br />http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm#earnings<br /><br />And it takes less intelligence to earn that extra money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-27677286937943131832010-04-22T07:11:50.214-07:002010-04-22T07:11:50.214-07:00Jack, all workers fall into one of three categorie...Jack, all workers fall into one of three categories:<br /><br />1) Those who directly generate revenue for companies.<br /><br />2) Those who don't.<br /><br />3) Owners.<br /><br />The lawyers, and the engineers who make the money fall into categories "1" and "3". I didn't make the rules of capitalism, I just abide by them.Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-92057980394394142072010-04-21T23:00:54.097-07:002010-04-21T23:00:54.097-07:00Truth, the *real* difference between an engineerin...Truth, the *real* difference between an engineering degree and a law degree is about 2 years. Engineering coursework is far more difficult than that found in your typical pre-law major, and an engineering major typically requires about 30 hours more classes through the ENG or related depts (math, physics, comp sci, chem, etc) for graduation. The result is that a large portion of engineering majors wind up taking 5 years to graduate, especially if they changed majors after their freshman year.<br /><br />Then there is this concept I'll carry over from the physical sciences called "acceleration." Engineering grads may have higher starting salaries than lawyers but a lawyer's pay has higher acceleration. By focussing on first year salary you only ignore about 40 years of a professional career.Captain Jack Aubreynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-61370114764943102632010-04-21T15:52:46.656-07:002010-04-21T15:52:46.656-07:00"They don't pay engineers "so much m..."They don't pay engineers "so much money", you loon. If they did all the smart white people would be becoming engineers instead of lawyers."<br /><br />The top 10 <a href="http://www.scholarships.com/resources/college-prep/choosing-a-major/top-ten-highest-paying-college-majors.aspx" rel="nofollow">Highest paying college majors.</a><br /><br />Well what a shock! Nairy a Fine arts, Humanities, or Philosphy degree in the bunch, and engineers are nine of the top ten. <br /><br />"Well how can the be?!?!" says anonymous;<br /><br />Well how about this for a start; ENGINEERS CAN WORK IN THEIR FIELDS WITH A BACHELOR'S DEGREE, YOU BUFFOONS, A LAW DEGREE IS CONSIDERED A PHD.<br /><br />That means that a lawyer has to go to school for 3 years (and accumulate $120,000 extra dollars in debt (if he goes in state and eats PB&J the whole time).<br /><br />Oh and guess what, the average starting salary for a lawyer (even after three extra years is about <a href="http://www.aboutlawschools.org/law/jobs/salaries/" rel="nofollow">$56,000</a><br /><br />That's right, ALL 9 varieties of engineers start off, with a bachelor's degree making more money than a lawyer. You do not compare apples to apples, that's one of your problems, you think that F. Lee Bailey represents the average lawyer.<br /><br />Good advice for you; if you are an engineer and you don't feel like you are making enough money, grow some stones at start your own firm.Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-5515365237405693562010-04-21T09:11:55.893-07:002010-04-21T09:11:55.893-07:00That may be, but a machine to pick apples does not...<i>That may be, but a machine to pick apples does not exist NOW. Be sure to tell the guy with the orchard to fire his workers because someone is imagining the machine of his dreams as we speak</i> <br /><br /><br /><br />Nobody expects him to fire his workers. We are merely saying that he must pay them the wages which the market requires rather then trying to subvert the market. If he cannot stay in business paying his workers market wages, that is the market telling him that he should redirect his efforts elsewhere.<br /><br /><br /><i>Then why do they pay engineers so much money?</i> <br /><br /><br />Thay <i>don't</i> pay engineers "so much money", you clown. That's why all the smart white peope become lawyers rather than engineers. Go to an engineers forum where they discuss jobs and they all say the they would never let their kids become engineers.<br /><br />You really don't have the foggiest idea what you are talking about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34216164993255851852010-04-21T09:02:36.186-07:002010-04-21T09:02:36.186-07:00Then why do they pay engineers so much money?
...<i>Then why do they pay engineers so much money?</i> <br /><br /><br /><br />They don't pay engineers "so much money", you loon. If they did all the smart white people would be becoming engineers instead of lawyers. We're importing Indian engineers because they don't pay engineers enough money.<br /><br />Go to one of the forums where engineers discuss this stuff and they are all saying that they would never let their kids become engineers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-7134876764177172362010-04-20T23:14:56.056-07:002010-04-20T23:14:56.056-07:00Twoof's method of operation:
Step one: Say so...Twoof's method of operation:<br /><br />Step one: Say something factually untrue and/or outright stupid.<br /><br />Step two: Get called on said B.S.<br /><br />Step three: Insult caller.<br /><br />Step four: Repeat step one.<br /><br />It's like a perpetual motion hamster wheel.<br /><br />Twoof should forget those water-fueled automobiles he won't admit to believing in and start droppin' that science of his into the gas tank instead.kudzu bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00865247508134005274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-43743975144943158042010-04-20T22:38:02.371-07:002010-04-20T22:38:02.371-07:00But again, on the same reading comprehension tip, ...<b>But again, on the same reading comprehension tip, the original point was that LABOR costs would triple by using immigrant vs caucasian labor.</b><br /><br />My point was that it is irrelevant how much money the good natives "save" from having their homes built or crops picked by illegal labor. First, because thanks to increased demand for homes (by immigrants) the savings are actually captured by major landowners and homebuilders, not the purchasers. Second, home prices in desirable neighborhoods increase because most Americans don't want to live in neighborhoods overrun by illegals living 3 families to a home.<br /><br />Did home prices fall as the immigrant share of California's population soared to 27%?<br /><br />Nope.<br /><br />Immigrants came, home prices soared. Doesn't really get much simpler than that.<br /><br /><b>Do you know the biggest waster of water in Western states, Jack? White guys who play golf.</b><br /><br />My God, you are SO right! Now why the hell didn't I think of that? We should get rid of the gold courses. And the swimming pools. And the Bellagio fountain. And all the stufff that makes life somewhat enjoyable. And all the stuff that drives the economy of Vegas and Phoenix and Palm Springs.<br /><br />Why, ya know...hell...if we just gave up all of our extravagant waste we could live the good life like the good people of Chihuahua or Ethiopia, packing in as many people per square yard as ever nature would allow.<br /><br />My God, why didn't I think of that??? Silly, silly me!Captain Jack Aubreynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86018494336607254782010-04-20T20:08:02.438-07:002010-04-20T20:08:02.438-07:00"Given sufficient incentive, an apple-picking..."Given sufficient incentive, an apple-picking machine is entirely imaginable."<br /><br />That may be, but a machine to pick apples does not exist NOW. Be sure to tell the guy with the orchard to fire his workers because someone is imagining the machine of his dreams as we speak.<br /><br /><br />"Robots may not pay taxes, but profitable corporations do."<br /><br />Good luck making profits with no one to sell to. As I've written numerous times here, the labor force is only half the value of immigration. People at the top have to have someone patronizing their businesses in order to make money; in other words, manager positions are made by people who by useless shite at Wal-Mart.<br /><br />How about a compromise solution:<br /><br />They invent robots, then they give them a paycheck. They then take 30% of their paycheck to give to taxes (so that the old people who now make up your country can have their meds and their garbage disposal). They then invent baby robots, (so that the teachers, guidance counselors and administrators can keep their jobs), and evil doppelganger robots for the manufacturing ones (so that the police, firemen, baliffs, and wardens can do the same). They cut up the rest of the robot's checks and give them to the grocer, the guy who owns the car washes, the movie theaters etc. Then finally the invent Abe Foxman/ Jesse Jackson model robots so that we don't take to much money from the android's paychecks!<br /><br />(or they could just let in immigrants.)<br /><br />"Oh, please, stop with the "American White men are too dumb / lazy to learn calc." That's a lie promulgated by multinational corps to import cheap H1-B labor."<br /><br />Then why do they pay engineers so much money?<br /><br />"And let me ask you guys one more question. When they build the 100,000 acre factories to build the robots...who builds them?<br /><br />"Another example is Twoof's claim that whites make up 20% of South Africa's population, when in fact the number is a mere 9.1%."<br /><br />My Lord Bob, you are right, it couldn't have been 10 years ago that SA was about 19% white. That absolutely stuns me.<br /><br />You people are going away fast!Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-68558611769779665992010-04-20T19:26:39.918-07:002010-04-20T19:26:39.918-07:00"CA housing boom built by illegals getting $1..."CA housing boom built by illegals getting $10 / hr: Avg. home price for 3 bed 2 bath 2 car garage, $300 - 400 K. Wyoming building boom built by Whites with avg. carpenter wage $25: Avg. home price for 3 bed 2 bath 2 car garage, $180 K."<br /><br />Oh, so real estate prices have something to do with the cost of a house? Funny, I never once considered that. <br /><br />But again, on the same reading comprehension tip, the original point was that LABOR costs would triple by using immigrant vs caucasian labor. For some strange reason I never once considered comparing real estate costs in Califorina and freaking WYOMING(!)<br /><br />There's a very good reason I didn't respond to it the first time, Jack.<br /><br />. Water is in very short supply because of unsustainable population growth - growth which is driven by, you guessed it, mass immigration."<br /><br />True, and not true. Do you know the biggest waster of water in Western states, Jack? White guys who play golf. That's right. keeping 600 acres of desert scrubland in Las Vegas green is incredibly taxing on the environment. Look it up for yourself.<br /><br />"Game, set and match, "Truth."<br /><br />Truthfully Jack, your a good jr. level player, but a couple years with Bolletteri would help you...your second serve is about 60 mph.Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-90390142622336650432010-04-20T14:21:59.344-07:002010-04-20T14:21:59.344-07:00"why take any unskilled legal immigrants?&quo..."why take any unskilled legal immigrants?"<br /><br />To help improve their lot and allow them to pursue their dreams?<br /><br />Not everything should be based on what helps the economy the most. Which is not to say there shouldn't be a balance here between individual aspirations and group utility.ben gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-75586468585385418272010-04-20T13:56:35.579-07:002010-04-20T13:56:35.579-07:00"Long story short - you once again don't ..."Long story short - you once again don't know what you are talking about."<br /><br />Indeed. Another example is Twoof's claim that whites make up 20% of South Africa's population, when in fact the number is a mere 9.1%. I tried to post this correction earlier, but for some reason it never made appeared.kudzu bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00865247508134005274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-59635222914212049592010-04-20T11:41:30.647-07:002010-04-20T11:41:30.647-07:00You are another one who is not reading aren't ...<i>You are another one who is not reading aren't you?</i> <br /><br /><br /><i>The argument was Old society vs. young society, and it was couched in RELATIVE terms.</i> <br /><br /><br />And what do "RELATIVE terms" have to do with whether it is possible to overpay for something in a free market?<br /><br /><br />Another mistake you make is in thinking that "dockwork, warehouse personel, manufacturing, day labor..." is young people work. It's not. Not unless your definition of young people covers everybody under fifty.<br /><br />Day labor, dockwork, etc add virtually nothing to the cost of goods and services. Manufacturing does, but you live in a fantasty world if you think that manufacturing is still done by muscle power.<br /><br /><br /><i>Not everything (now and in the foreseeable future) can be mechanized; i.e. machines can efficiently pick rows of lettuce, they cannot pick apples off a tree.</i> <br /><br /><br /><br />People used to say the same thing about cotton and tobacco. Here's a link that will break your heart.<br /><br />http://www.freshplaza.com/news_detail.asp?id=3967<br /><br />Even road work is increaingly done by machines, not by gangs of young men wielding shovels. <a href="http://www.dkimages.com/discover/home/technology/Engineering/Roads/Road-laying-Equipment/index.html" rel="nofollow">For instance.</a><br /><br />Long story short - you once again don't know what you are talking about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-91217724587187033422010-04-20T07:15:21.396-07:002010-04-20T07:15:21.396-07:00"machines can efficiently pick rows of lettuc..."machines can efficiently pick rows of lettuce, they cannot pick apples off a tree."<br /><br />Who says? <br /><br />Machines to efficiently pick lettuce were only developed because the cost of labor was prohibitive, so growers had an incentive.<br /><br />Given sufficient incentive, an apple-picking machine is entirely imaginable. The engineering work to develop one hasn't been done because illegals were readily available and cheap.<br /><br />Robots may not pay taxes, but profitable corporations do. And anyway, all tax is ultimately paid by the customer. Duh.<br /><br />Roads? You serious? First of all, with a smaller workforce, the road wear will be greatly reduced. And even today, it's not exactly done by hand by men with picks and shovels, you know. More equipment = fewer workers.<br /><br />You are seriously asking me to give away my demographic numerical superiority to Mexicans, who are Marxicans, as per Brenda Walker, in order to save the *free markets*!?<br /><br />Oh, please, stop with the "American White men are too dumb / lazy to learn calc." That's a lie promulgated by multinational corps to import cheap H1-B labor. <br /><br />Does anyone else around here get the idea that Truth has never even read Steve's and VDARE'S stuff?<br /><br />"Can lead to a drop in prices. Business owners invest in mechanization when the cost falls to less than the cost of employees"<br /><br />Aye, Captain. When cheap labor is unavailable and the biz invests in the mechanization as a result, then the fact that they have no more labor cost for that area from then on, THAT's what leads to drop in prices.Curvaceous Carbon-based Life Formnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44127053104059156682010-04-19T23:01:32.368-07:002010-04-19T23:01:32.368-07:00Mechanization leads to a DROP in prices.
Can lead...<b>Mechanization leads to a DROP in prices.</b><br /><br /><i>Can</i> lead to a drop in prices. Business owners invest in mechanization when the cost falls to less than the cost of employees.<br /><br /><b>CA housing boom built by illegals getting $10 / hr: Avg. home price for 3 bed 2 bath 2 car garage, $300 - 400 K. Wyoming building boom built by Whites with avg. carpenter wage $25: Avg. home price for 3 bed 2 bath 2 car garage, $180 K.</b><br /><br />Given that illegal immigrants drive down the price of labor for any particular city. An inflow of people, legal or illegal, will drive up demand for land. An inflow particularly of poor, uneducated Latin Americans will drive down the number of neighborhoods in which it is desirable to live.<br /><br />Did housing get cheaper during the immigrant boom, or did its price outpace (dramatically) average wages?<br /><br />I won't even get into the supposed fact that illegal immigrants are saving American agriculture. The California ag industry is about to hit a wall, with water in short supply. The Colorado River is tapped out; during the last drought cycle Lake Mead and Lake Powell were at their lowest levels since the 70s, showing bathtub rings. Water is in very short supply because of unsustainable population growth - growth which is driven by, you guessed it, mass immigration.<br /><br />Game, set and match, "Truth."Captain Jack Aubreynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56372326780217558692010-04-19T21:51:00.819-07:002010-04-19T21:51:00.819-07:00"There is no such thing as "overpaying&q..."There is no such thing as "overpaying" for a thing in "<br /><br />You are another one who is not reading aren't you?<br /><br />The argument was Old society vs. young society, and it was couched in RELATIVE terms.Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-70246966366878559262010-04-19T21:48:55.406-07:002010-04-19T21:48:55.406-07:00"Mechanization leads to a DROP in prices.&quo..."Mechanization leads to a DROP in prices."<br /><br />"All that importing a bunch of low-IQ peasants does is INCREASE the burden on the few, smart, native young people."<br /><br />This is one of the not-well-thought-out- parables here. A few random thoughts:<br /><br />1) Workplace productivity is only a piece of a puzzle; robots don't pay taxes, workers do. If you have a country (ostensibly) full of old people who have left the workforce, and robots, how do the roads get fixed?<br /><br />2) Not everything (now and in the foreseeable future) can be mechanized; i.e. machines can efficiently pick rows of lettuce, they cannot pick apples off a tree.<br /><br />3) What happens to the small companies that cannot afford expensive robots? Why they sell out to large companies, of course. This creates monopolies, and destroys a country's free markets. This is happening now with American organic farming.<br /><br />4) A nation of robots creates a need for a whole new (albeit smaller) class of immigrants. 10,000,000 machines need 2,000,000 engineers, and white men are too busy learning to make microbrews to take Calculus III...hello Brahmins!Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12045892007991725142010-04-19T19:51:23.727-07:002010-04-19T19:51:23.727-07:00A lack of young people to do traditionally young p...<i>A lack of young people to do traditionally young people's (dockwork, warehouse personel, manufacturing, day labor...) jobs</i> <br /><br /><i>That leads to...</i> <br /><br /><i>Companies having to overpay to fill these jobs.</i> <br /><br /><br />There is no such thing as "overpaying" for a thing in a free market system. Things cost what they cost. You're thinking like a lefty again and imagining that you can know the "correct" price for various commodities, including labor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-16442832557608925052010-04-19T19:20:09.354-07:002010-04-19T19:20:09.354-07:00No, Truth.
The answer isn't importing a new y...No, Truth.<br /><br />The answer isn't importing a new young people, it's mechanization. Don't you read Steve's stuff?<br /><br />Mechanization leads to a DROP in prices.<br /><br /><br />Mechanization cuts the load down to size of dockwork jobs so the few young can be so much more productive that it only takes a few.<br /><br />The Japanese have the right idea. Robotics to assist the elderly so they can stay in their own homes, and the grown kids can keep an eye on 'em through webcams.<br /><br /><br />All that importing a bunch of low-IQ peasants does is INCREASE the burden on the few, smart, native young people. For instance: nursing. Low IQ peasants can't do that kind of work, but need it done for them. Which DECREASES the supply of nurses available for the aged and drives up costs.<br /><br /><br />The flaw in your argument here:<br /><br />"A lack of young people to do traditionally young people's (dockwork, warehouse personel, manufacturing, day labor...) jobs"<br /><br />is:<br /><br />That's not traditional young people's work. It's traditional low-IQ, low-skill work.Curvaceous Carbon-based Life Formnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-58185643527895493622010-04-19T16:13:12.788-07:002010-04-19T16:13:12.788-07:00"There. Fixed that for you yet again. Wouldn&..."There. Fixed that for you yet again. Wouldn't want anybody to think that you were deliberately misquoting Anonymous."<br /><br />Alright Bobby, admittedly I have a problem here on this site:<br /><br />I have a tendency to go from A to Q without touching upon B...C...D...etc in the middle. Here's the long form for you:<br /><br />A country has an aging population and an old median age.<br /><br />That leads to...<br /><br />A lack of young people to do traditionally young people's (dockwork, warehouse personel, manufacturing, day labor...) jobs<br /><br />That leads to...<br /><br />Companies having to overpay to fill these jobs.<br /><br />That leads to...<br /><br />Additions to the price at each station of the manufacturing process, import, wharehousing, manufacturing, delivery, retail, etc.<br /><br />That leads to...<br /><br />Higher prices.<br /><br />That leads to...<br /><br />The aforementioned connection between median age and price for goods and services.Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286755693955361308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-81716723940737158772010-04-19T14:57:14.996-07:002010-04-19T14:57:14.996-07:00"A connection between labor costs and prices?..."A connection between labor costs and prices?"<br /><br />Sorry. Your theory gets shot down by looking at CA vs WY.<br /><br />CA housing boom built by illegals getting $10 / hr: Avg. home price for 3 bed 2 bath 2 car garage, $300 - 400 K<br /><br />Wyoming building boom built by Whites with avg. carpenter wage $25: Avg. home price for 3 bed 2 bath 2 car garage, $180 K. <br /><br />Nope. It's the land prices.Curvaceous Carbon-based Life Formnoreply@blogger.com