tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post8004099374002703131..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: "The Dönme: Jewish Converts, Muslim Revolutionaries, and Secular Turks"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49304038410752129412012-04-30T22:00:12.742-07:002012-04-30T22:00:12.742-07:00well i am an alevi and i do really think we are he...well i am an alevi and i do really think we are hellenized and then islamized pan jewish nation because lots of common esoteric relations, rituals and symbols we have been sharing with current jews.there is no difference between levite and alevite just a mask of islam thats all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69312530734939203922010-02-23T10:37:20.651-08:002010-02-23T10:37:20.651-08:00hmm......"secular ultranationalists" tha...hmm......"secular ultranationalists" that are against an "Islamic-inspired" government......perhaps the "secular ultranationalists" are the "scotch-irish" of turkey....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-38637555523117102042010-02-23T10:35:33.381-08:002010-02-23T10:35:33.381-08:00"In one of the toughest actions against the p...<i>"In one of the toughest actions against the powerful Turkish military in the history of modern Turkey, the police detained three of the country’s highest-ranking former generals on Monday as part of a vast and lengthy investigation into a shadowy ultranationalist movement accused of planning to overthrow the Islamist-inspired government."</i><br /><br />Once again, Steve is ahead of the news.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-37427255698565816822010-02-22T10:05:51.442-08:002010-02-22T10:05:51.442-08:00"In one of the toughest actions against the p..."<i>In one of the toughest actions against the powerful Turkish military in the history of modern Turkey, the police detained three of the country’s highest-ranking former generals on Monday as part of <b>a vast and lengthy investigation into a shadowy ultranationalist movement accused of planning to overthrow the Islamist-inspired government.</b></i>"<br /><br />"...<i>The case, which has riveted Turks, revolves around <b>a suspected conspiracy by secular ultranationalists accused of developing several plots to attack civilian targets, like a mosque in central Istanbul, and to provoke a crisis with neighboring Greece, with a goal of paving the way for a coup.</b></i>"<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/23/world/europe/23turkey.htmlmint_teahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665091430837114673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82148561192398356572010-02-19T11:49:36.440-08:002010-02-19T11:49:36.440-08:00Anon of 2/18 - of course it is true that the Persi...Anon of 2/18 - of course it is true that the Persians and Indians also contributed greatly to the so-called golden age of Islamic learning.<br /><br />The point to be made here is that Islam conquered areas previously inhabited by two of the world's great ancient civilizations - the Greco-Roman (Asia Minor, Egypt, Syria, Palestine) and the Persian. Almost nothing in its so-called golden age was originally Islamic. The glories of Abbasid Baghdad or Ottoman Turkey were essentially the result of living off cultural capital that had been earned long before the rise of Islam. Islam deserves no credit for the result. <br /><br />When the jihadis invaded Alexandria, they burned the manuscripts of its ancient library to heat their bath water. This seems to me to be entirely typical Muslim behavior. <br /><br />Christendom, on the other hand, inherited the Italian peninsula and a handful of Rome's less wealthy and less developed imperial possessions in Gaul, Britain, and Iberia. To them it added parts of northern Europe that the Romans never conquered, and with these seemingly unpromising raw materials created western civilisation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-14894479165682569582010-02-18T21:20:29.872-08:002010-02-18T21:20:29.872-08:00"it is worth pointing out that much of the so..."it is worth pointing out that much of the so-called golden age of Islamic learning was due to the ancestors of these people - followers of late antique Neoplatonism who preserved the knowledge of Greek and translated many ancient Greek philosophical and scientific works into Arabic."<br /><br />Yes but also most of the leading figures of that golden age were Persians or "central asian aryans" ie intellectuals from Bactria, Transoxiana, Sogdia, etc. who converted to Islam and spoke Arabic but whose cultural legacy was Persian, not Arabic. It wasn't just Greek learning that supported the Islamic Golden Age, but Persian and even Indian learning (from whence we got our "Arabic" numerals, for instance), translated into Arabic. <br /><br />"of course, as David said, you can find exotic religious beliefs downtown in the US. but they simply don't have the history and class of their Middle Eastern counterparts"<br /><br />Not being persecuted they don't have to hide and dissimulate, so that makes them appear less exotic. But also, Western culture simply doesn't have the same affinity for metaphysical speculation or the same mania for preserving ancient folkways and superstitions. <br /><br />In the USA, the Mormons or the snake-handlers or the Scientologists or the Seventh Day Adventists are minor irritants, at best; they aren't normal. In the middle east they would be normal. That is to say, even as oppressed minorities, their tendency to form inbred sectarian communities is the norm in the middle east; it is not the norm in the West.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34429171289799115092010-02-18T19:02:05.282-08:002010-02-18T19:02:05.282-08:00I wonder how things would have played out if the T...I wonder how things would have played out if the Turks had sat out WWI like they sat out WWII. If Mussolini been like more like Ataturk, Italy might have been spared too.Ducenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-28581261341763061502010-02-18T09:49:21.428-08:002010-02-18T09:49:21.428-08:00A picture says a thousand words. Just look at him!...A picture says a thousand words. Just <a href="http://www.mrdowling.com/images/608ataturk1.jpg" rel="nofollow">look</a> at <a href="http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&um=1&q=ataturk&sa=N&start=0&ndsp=20" rel="nofollow">him</a>!<br /><br />And here's <a href="http://img.mynet.com/ha2/ismailcem.jpg" rel="nofollow">smail Cem</a>, the recent foreign minister.<br /><br />The level of conspiracy theories among Turks is quite extraordinary, but you can't really blame them. The more you learn the more you get sucked into the idea of machinations within machinations, worlds within worlds...mint_teahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665091430837114673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-79383392817268901462010-02-18T08:03:48.858-08:002010-02-18T08:03:48.858-08:00Felix M
I meant that if you want to find crypto-J...Felix M<br /><br />I meant that if you want to find crypto-Jews, you can find them downtown in Anywhere USA. You can even find them running the megachurch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64064248408046008802010-02-17T21:39:57.025-08:002010-02-17T21:39:57.025-08:00and don't forget the fascinating Mandeans - a ...and don't forget the fascinating Mandeans - a religious group found in Iraq and Iran<br /><br />their origins are obscure but it seems to me that the best guess is they're the descendants of Gnostics from 1st century Israel <br /><br />of course, as David said, you can find exotic religious beliefs downtown in the US. but they simply don't have the history and class of their Middle Eastern counterpartsFelix Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73174591282172778272010-02-17T14:20:38.165-08:002010-02-17T14:20:38.165-08:00Apropos of the "50,000 Gnostics in Southern I...Apropos of the "50,000 Gnostics in Southern Iraq who believe in planetary archons," it is worth pointing out that much of the so-called golden age of Islamic learning was due to the ancestors of these people - followers of late antique Neoplatonism who preserved the knowledge of Greek and translated many ancient Greek philosophical and scientific works into Arabic. Thebit ben Corath, one of the principal mediaeval Arabic authorities on algebra, was one of these people. They were allowed to survive as dhimmis, because they had a sacred scripture (the Corpus Hermeticum) and believed in a creator - thus qualifying as one of the "peoples of the book" along with Jews and Christians.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-14017693548053434452010-02-17T11:51:40.404-08:002010-02-17T11:51:40.404-08:00The Catholics should move to the Republic if they ...<i>The Catholics should move to the Republic if they don't want to be British.</i> <br /><br /> <br /><br />Or the British could just go back to Britian.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30957348406909077222010-02-17T02:45:23.632-08:002010-02-17T02:45:23.632-08:00So Huffington Post stateside and the mainstream ne...So Huffington Post stateside and the mainstream news outlets in Europe have published the smiling mug shots of the eleven person Mossad assassination team caught working in Dubai.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/dubai/7251265/Dubai-Hamas-assassination-Israeli-hit-squad-used-fake-British-passports.html" rel="nofollow">Dubai Hamas assassination: 'Israeli hit-squad' used fake British passports</a><br /><br />...but 'conservative' Matt Drudge and the rest of the big 'liberal' news services in the USA mostly took a pass.<br /><br />What is this sneaky group of international criminals to be called -- Moshe's Eleven? Blogs are chattering anew about that Spielbergian Mossad vengeance movie from a few years back. Rent it today! And you too can begin piecing the Dubai mystery together along with Scotland Yard! <br /><br />I wonder what sort of Hollywood office suite shouting matches took place during the production of that Spielberg film. I will guess that the sticky wicket was 'just how much of our Israel business do we really want to show them (the audience)?' I bet there were some conversations this week where deep regrets were voiced about the wisdom of doing that movie.<br /><br />Hmmmmmm. Anyway, Steve, our friends in internet land seem to disagree on just what is the news and what is thought crime. Kudos to Ms Huffington for refusing to allow Mossad to have editorial control of her website.Tel Aviv Scots-Irishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65397353100635405462010-02-16T21:03:16.370-08:002010-02-16T21:03:16.370-08:00"The interesting part is the impact of dysgen..."The interesting part is the impact of dysgenic fertility. My understanding is that the low IQ rural people have been outbreeding the high IQ urban people for a long time now."<br /><br />You're talking about Turkey, right? Or...every other civilized society in history? I can't tell.<br /><br />If dumb hicks having more kids than city slickers is "dysgenic" then we hit rock bottom a long, long time ago. A little more won't hurt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23362757833284572482010-02-16T20:11:33.900-08:002010-02-16T20:11:33.900-08:00"Armenians . . . wanted to preserve the Armen..."Armenians . . . wanted to preserve the Armenian nature of their great grandchildren here in the USA."<br /><br />The Kardashian great grandparents must really be spinning in their Los Angeles graves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-47685241295503944192010-02-16T19:04:45.042-08:002010-02-16T19:04:45.042-08:00Perhaps they forged themselves some Scotch-Irish p...<i>Perhaps they forged themselves some Scotch-Irish passports.</i> <br /><br />LOL.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44822204789564732292010-02-16T17:41:00.031-08:002010-02-16T17:41:00.031-08:00A little off-topic, but over at AoSHQ, they're...<i>A little off-topic, but over at AoSHQ, they're discussing what sounds like a real-life Ziva David operation.<br /><br />Apparently somebody forged themselves some Irish passports...</i><br /><br />Perhaps they forged themselves some Scotch-Irish passports.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12510853582050609212010-02-16T17:26:10.699-08:002010-02-16T17:26:10.699-08:00"And yet, Turkey has managed to get through t..."And yet, Turkey has managed to get through the last 85 years with mostly only some regrettable Kurd-stomping and a few coups. Most Turks have lived out their lives in peace."<br /><br />Right, and there is a reason for that: the practically unchallenged power of the military. After all, this was Ataturk's legacy, the army as ...guarantor of 'secular democracy'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-11247455997977888422010-02-16T17:00:04.212-08:002010-02-16T17:00:04.212-08:00"Repartition of Ireland/Northern Ireland the ..."Repartition of Ireland/Northern Ireland the same way, that little matter would be solved."<br /><br />That was already done. The Catholics should move to the Republic if they don't want to be British.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-53660842866410890572010-02-16T16:47:05.788-08:002010-02-16T16:47:05.788-08:00Cypress should be returned to Greece, as should Co...Cypress should be returned to Greece, as should Constantinople.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-51045209311886540392010-02-16T16:46:21.525-08:002010-02-16T16:46:21.525-08:0085 years is an interesting cut off steve, since 90...85 years is an interesting cut off steve, since 90 years ago they had ethnic cleansing in proportion to the numbers - far worse than anything in WWII - they have been stable because they ethnically cleansed.. so why are we trying to do the opposite?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86668002643357769272010-02-16T13:36:47.695-08:002010-02-16T13:36:47.695-08:00Good fences make good neighbors as far as I am con...<i>Good fences make good neighbors as far as I am concerned.</i><br /><br />The great and the good are all agreed that the current partition of Cyprus. Turks in the north east, Greeks in the south west, is A Very Bad Thing which must be ended as soon as possible. Yet for thirty years people on the island havent been killing each other.<br /><br />It looks like a solution to me.<br /><br />Repartition of Ireland/Northern Ireland the same way, that little matter would be solved.<br /><br />Then there is Sri Lanka, the Cypriot solution screams out its obviousness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-19145003700652202012010-02-16T13:22:33.232-08:002010-02-16T13:22:33.232-08:00Turkey strikes me as one of the great diplomatic /...Turkey strikes me as one of the great diplomatic / political success stories of the last 85 years. If you look at a globe, the single most strategic location is probably Turkey -- it's the opposite of Sweden, which is on the road to nowhere. Turkey, even more so than Lebanon, Iraq, and the Holy Land, is hub of the Old World. <br /><br />And yet, Turkey has managed to get through the last 85 years with mostly only some regrettable Kurd-stomping and a few coups. Most Turks have lived out their lives in peace.Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39530130311283068332010-02-16T11:53:19.111-08:002010-02-16T11:53:19.111-08:00Ataturk was indeed a Donme born, not in Turkey, bu...Ataturk was indeed a Donme born, not in Turkey, but in Salonika, Greece. The Young Turks (called the Ittihad in Turkey) were a nationalist (not Islamic) party who were instrumental in the Turkish entry into WW I and the concurrent massacre of the Armenians. Ataturk continued the secular and nationalist cause after WW I with the massacre and expulsion of Greeks from western Turkey. Both the Ittihad and Ataturk's followers included numerous Donme.Dutch Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02687679491743923216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-59915199208570118062010-02-16T10:58:53.381-08:002010-02-16T10:58:53.381-08:00What is most interesting to me about Turkey isn...What is most interesting to me about Turkey isn't the fate of various minorities, be they Christian or Jewish. <br /><br />The interesting part is the impact of dysgenic fertility. My understanding is that the low IQ rural people have been outbreeding the high IQ urban people for a long time now. <br /><br />The result is that each successive government is more and more beholden to the low IQ rural people who happen to be more islamic. There is no hope for non Islamic people in Turkey. They are best off moving somewhere else. <br /><br />I am not a greek and I am not a Turk so I have an outsider's perspective on the battle between Greeks and Turks. But it seems to me that the separation of the two groups, through population exchange, was immensely successful. I mean, if Greeks and Turks still lived intermixed with each other there would be constant fighting and the GNP of both countries would be consumed in warfare. <br /><br />Good fences make good neighbors as far as I am concerned. <br /><br />In general, I think that if ethnic groups can't get along with each other, they should find an orderly and humane way to sell their businesses and houses and move to different countries. <br /><br />For example, if you are a person of Japanese ancestry living in the USA, and you are concerned that your children will pick up values and habits that you don't like, you can move back to Japan where you will be welcomed with open arms. Your children will grow up in a racially pure place, and marry other Japanese.<br /><br />Similarly, if you want to live in a place that is all white that practices traditional Catholicism, Poland is the place to go. If you raise your kids in Poland they are certain to marry whites and certain to grow up with a level of respect for Catholic doctrine that you just can't find in the USA. <br /><br />History shows that in the USA, just about all groups bleed in to one. The fact that pretty much all kids born here speak English and all go to public schools with kids of other ethnicities means that it is hard to maintain any sort of tradition here over the course of a few generations.<br /><br />In the USA of 1910, just about everyone wanted their children and grandchildren to marry within the same narrowly defined ethnic group. I mean, Chinese people in the USA wanted ethnically pure Chinese great grandchildren to be living in 2010. Armenians, with a fresh experience of genocide certainly wanted to preserve the Armenian nature of their great grandchildren here in the USA. Irish people wanted ethnically pure Irish great grand children to be living in 2010. But it just doesn't play out that way here in the USA. <br /><br />It seems to me that the only way to preserve your ethnic group is to live within an enclave that is closed to the outside world (ie live like the Amish) or instead move to an ethnically pure country (like Poland or Japan)<br />Anything else, and you are doomed to having great grandchildren that are different than what you wantAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com