tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post8047809777174455234..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Classical music and IQUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35907495554619034902011-02-25T11:20:48.813-08:002011-02-25T11:20:48.813-08:00love the article. on the classical music topic che...love the article. on the classical music topic check also <a href="http://www.squidoo.com/how-to-understand-music" rel="nofollow">mine.</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12881863132453259002011-02-12T08:29:48.273-08:002011-02-12T08:29:48.273-08:00Some of us really do love classical music...
I di...<i>Some of us really do love classical music...</i><br /><br />I didn't mean to imply that people couldn't find classical enjoyable. I am more interested in debunking the idea that classical is somehow 'better' than any other kind of music. Way more effort and attention gets put into it than it deserves, IMO.<br /><br />And I also don't mean to deny the importance of social signaling. Even tho I try to be relentlessly rational I find myself doing it quite a lot and it too can be can be pleasurable. A particular kind of music is often quite closely associated with particular social groups. There is a wikipedia page covering the scores of varieties of 'metal' music which illustrates this idea very well.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13392508706320844392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35630127779676144102011-02-09T23:56:32.174-08:002011-02-09T23:56:32.174-08:00Now its only use is for social signaling.
Uh, no....<i>Now its only use is for social signaling.</i><br /><br />Uh, no. That's not its <i>only</i> use. Some of us really do love classical music and don't care what the fuck it "signals".<br /><br />You're right about Telemann, though. But most classical music radio stations nowadays are run by marketers with no understanding of or love for the music and are just trying to lure in those silly Yuppies who <i>do</i> use it for status signaling. Which is why those who really love classical music have stopped listening to most classical stations. (I haven't listened to my local station in years.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67919775212921619852011-02-09T18:00:24.360-08:002011-02-09T18:00:24.360-08:00Classical music? Bah. Back in its day it was just ...Classical music? Bah. Back in its day it was just popular music for popes and kings. Now its only use is for social signaling.<br /><br />Case in point: Telemann. Has anybody heard a piece of his which was not boring, vapid and uninspired? Yet he is still in heavy rotation on the local classical station.frostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-13351453245473662212011-02-07T09:41:44.653-08:002011-02-07T09:41:44.653-08:00>the "income boost" from liking class...>the "income boost" from liking classical music is bigger than the boost from having a college degree, [...] maybe if the president really wants to invest in our children's future, he should just find ways to make classical music really popular among kids<<br /><br />I fear that would be putting the cart before the donkey. Classical music doesn't make one smart. Being smart tends to make one like or at least appreciate classical music.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-82996553612589975542011-02-06T19:29:38.909-08:002011-02-06T19:29:38.909-08:00classical is boring as shit idiot pride yallclassical is boring as shit idiot pride yallAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-60767591872234702732011-02-06T17:31:11.010-08:002011-02-06T17:31:11.010-08:00FeministX: "You do not appear to grasp the co...FeministX: "You do not appear to grasp the concept. Jazz is easy to clap to because it "swings". It is *because* the notes are held for very slightly differing periods that some beats seem heavier on a consistent basis."<br /><br />No kidding. What you're groping for is that running eighths in jazz are played in "swing time". But swing time is just a convention where two written eights are shorthand for a performed quarter and eighth triplet. There are plenty of "swing note" passages in classical music, too; the notation is just different.<br /><br />But don't take my word for it: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swung_note" rel="nofollow">In music, a swung note or shuffle note is a performance practice, mainly in jazz-influenced music, in which some notes with equal written time values are performed with unequal durations, usually as alternating long and short. <b>Music of the Baroque and Classical notes inégales era follow similar principles....</b><br />In most styles of music that use swing rhythm, the music is written with straight eighth notes, with an implicit understanding that eighth notes should be played with swing feel.</a><br /><br />So, to recap:<br /><br />(1) classical music can be swung, and jazz's swing time doesn't make it "more flexible;" <br />(2) classical music is full of rubato and any competent performance will have plenty;<br />(3) Baroque music, in particular, made use of unmeasured notation and pervasive improvisation.<br /><br />I believe this settles the rhythm issue since every one of your arguments has been refuted.<br /><br />It's pretty dumb to cite Liszt and Rachmaninoff's published pieces as evidence that classical piano music isn't improvisatory. Liszt and Rachmaninoff were superlative improvisers. For instance, Liszt would often take arbitrary themes from audience-members and improvise elaborate, lengthy solos from them.<br /><br />Both wrote pieces for the home market to be performed "as written," much as jazz greats would publish carefully arranged albums in which everything other than the solos was precisely calculated, like <i>Sketches of Spain</i> or any Stan Kenton album.<br /><br />Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, et al were extremely dedicated improvisers, eg JS Bach would improvise 5-voice fugues, and Beethoven would improvise 20-minute piano solos that got rave reviews (see the critical response to the concert where he premiered the 5th and 6th symphonies; the improvisation beforehand got the best reviews.)<br /><br />Moreover, in Baroque music, except for solos (and sometimes <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_concertos#Brandenburg_Concerto_No._5_in_D_major.2C_BWV_1050" rel="nofollow">even then, see 2nd mvmt</a>), the keyboard part was <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basso_continuo" rel="nofollow">expected to be improvised.</a><br /><br />I sincerely hope that next time, you spend 5 minutes browsing Wikipedia before posting the kind of off-the-top arrant nonsense that makes educated professionals despair. Much less pursuing it through however many ill-informed posts.<br /><br />-bbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86551292438574047382011-02-06T15:41:05.475-08:002011-02-06T15:41:05.475-08:00The comments in these last posts prove that all ki...The comments in these last posts prove that all kinds of people really, really care about music.<br />And that's me being tactful.<br /><br />Gilbert Pinfold.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-60097677308289493462011-02-06T15:17:16.744-08:002011-02-06T15:17:16.744-08:00Steve Sailer asks: "Given the existence of th...Steve Sailer asks: <i>"Given the existence of the saxophone, how inevitable was the development of a more sexualized music like jazz?"</i><br /><br />I'm not convinced that it was inevitable in the slightest. For something like 80 years, the saxophone had been used by classical composers in France well before jazz was thought of. Examples of these composers include Meyerbeer, Berlioz, Bizet, Massenet, Saint‐Saëns, and Vincent d'Indy. They just used it as one more orchestral tone color (ditto German composers such as Richard Strauss and Hindemth later on), with no sexual connotations.Robertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-48807332472555597622011-02-06T14:59:56.470-08:002011-02-06T14:59:56.470-08:00The GSS has only directly inquired about musical p...The GSS has only directly inquired about musical preferences once, in 1993, but it's the best quantitative measure we have available to consult. The mean wordsum score for that year among whites was 6.24, so it's reasonable to presume those answering 7-10 of the vocab test questions correctly have triple digit IQs, while those answering 5 or fewer correctly are in double-digit territory.<br /><br />The median score is consistently 6, however, so placing this middling group firmly in either the XX or XXX camp is unsatisfying. Consequently, only the 0-5 and 7-10 cohorts should be considered. Further, foreign-born respondents need to be excluded to avoid language fluency issues.<br /><br />The percentage of XXers who say they like classical music "very much" (the strongest affirmative option) is 8.2%, compared to 23.6% of XXXers. Looks like when the person in question is a XXer, you'll get a false positive about one in twelve times.<br /><br />Among XXXers, 4.2% report "disliking it very much" (the strongest negative option), and only another 9.5% say they merely "dislike" it, the rest either having mixed feelings towards or appreciating it, bringing the total among XXXers who have no use for classical music to 13.7%. By comparison, 41.2% of XXers feel this way. Gottfredson's tactic appears to be one that doesn't return too many false negatives, either.Audacious Epigonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07495507254628580077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-12679482838730065362011-02-06T10:33:13.452-08:002011-02-06T10:33:13.452-08:00Anon. writes that "Bach and Handel compoosed ...Anon. writes that "Bach and Handel compoosed a lot of music for brass, but... [i]t was like a horse trained only to trot along chosen paths."<br /><br />The reason for this was technological, not artistic. The natural trumpets in use in their day could not play the complete diatonic scale. Valved instruments can, but were not invented until the nineteenth century. Their invention, in turn, required machining capacity of sufficient precision, which was not available in the time of Bach and Handel.Crawfurdmuirnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67241342056435506842011-02-06T09:39:47.574-08:002011-02-06T09:39:47.574-08:00Anyway, the people who wielded the power of high/s...Anyway, the people who wielded the power of high/serious culture in 19th century America tended to look down on American culture while promoting slavish admiration of all things American. So, Europeans came to see the genius of Edgar Allan Poe before Americans did. And Mark Twain's stories weren't taken seriously by the literary brahmins of his time. They preferred 'serious' works that imitated European literature. Today, Twain is remembered but most of those 'serious' novels are all but forgotten. (And in the 50s, it took Europeans, especially the French, to point out that Hollywood has its share of genuine artists. Of course, Hollywood took its stories, ideas, etc from all spectrum of American life. The western or gangster story was not ignored because it was 'too low'. Hollywood wasn't just about SERIOUS ART all the time. It drew from life, myths, legends, lore, etc.) <br /><br />American music had its folk richness in the 19th century, but most of this was ignored by the cultural elite who looked to Europe for REAL CULTURE. This surprised Antonin Dvorak who toured the US and was amazed by the musical variety and richness, not least among the Negroes. He advised Americans to take inspiration from their own musical/historical material, but most brahmins of American taste--centered in Boston--sneered at this. Because serious American composers neglected their own cultural roots, Dvorak decided to take a go at it, and produced his greatest work: the New World symphony. Now, some music critics have said that Dvorak's borrowing from American sources was rather superficial; NWS in fact owes more to Bohemian music than to American sources, Negro, Indian, or otherwise. But in spirit at least, Dvorak made a legit point. Americans were stupid to sneer at their own culture, experience, and expressions. <br /><br />Horowitz agrees with Dvorak and traces the downfall of classical music in America to this never-ending slavishness to Europeanness instead of finding inspiration in its own history and folk music. Horowitz credits the success of jazz, pop, and rock to the fact that they did draw from indigenous sources. True to some extent, but I would argue the appeal of classical music was bound to be limited in America because it is elite music, and America is a democratic nation. Also, the indigenous sources of American music, rich as they were, were more suited to popular forms of music than classical music. <br /><br />Even so, the aesthetic strictures of the 19th century demonstrates the danger of elitism. Art is by nature elitist, but cultural elites can serve it very badly by insisting ONLY THIS IS ART. If such people wield a great power and influence, especially among the patrons of the arts, it can kill the chances of a serious artist who cannot rely entirely on popular support; after all, popular taste has its own tyranny in the form of LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR. <br /><br />The kind of support a true artist needs is seriusness of appreciation among the elites but also broadmindedness. <br />Of course, the problem today is the elites call ANYTHING art or music. If the elites in the past were afraid of being considered 'vulgar', elites today are deathly afraid of being considered 'conservative' or 'unhip', so they praise anything that's supposed to be 'radical'. <br /><br />Anyway, it seems like people like Chua are not using music appreciation in her kids as a bridge between life/history and art/culture but using music as a castle surrounded by a moat from the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-13453320588223832172011-02-06T09:39:25.853-08:002011-02-06T09:39:25.853-08:00This is an interesting book well worth reading tho...This is an interesting book well worth reading though maybe a bit PC for my taste. There was a good review by Terry Teachout in Commentary magazine. <br /> <br />CLASSICAL MUSIC IN AMERICA:<br /><br />A History of its Rise and Fall<br /><br />by Joseph Horowitz<br /><br />http://www.josephhorowitz.com/content.asp?elemento_id=13<br /><br />And our discussion of Asian interest in Classical Music echo some of the issues in this book. We say East Asian devotion to classical music is slavish than creative, reverent to the point of being mindlessly programmatic. <br /><br />Horowitz says much the same about American classical music in the 19th century. Instead of encouraging the drawing of inspiration from the rich/complex/exciting world around them, the brahmins of good taste in music promoted a slavish admiration of European music. There was nothing wrong with admiring and learning from European classical music, of course; after all, it was the finest in the world. Even so, for Americans to be truly creative and original, they would have had to explore/express their own particular emotions and experiences to the music. But the American experience, subjects, and influences--folk music, etc--were considered too uncouth, vulgar, lowly, and elementary for something as high/mighty and noble as classical music. So, elite American composers were encouraged to strictly adhere to the European model. Those who deviated from this rule were shunned or neglected and became nobodies.<br />Today, we have greater regard for Stephen Foster than most 'serious' American music composers of the 19th century. (One of the great things about American Western music--the best ones anyway--is the classical use of frontier themes. The score for SHANE and BIG COUNTRY are really grand and uplifting, even if it may not be truly great music. It's very American.) <br /><br />This kinda reminds of the power of Bosley Crowther as a film critics from the 40s to 60s. As head critic of NY Times, he had the power to make or break any foreign film. For a long time, his was the final word on aesthetics and morality. FOREIGN FILM RENAISSANCE ON AMERICAN SCREENS by Tino Balio does credit him for promoting many foreign films, but his narrow moralism/humanism also ruined many films, and by the 60s, he was a dinosaur behind the times. As Andrew Sarris said at the time, the problem with Crowther was really his power than his taste.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-11198660174111488302011-02-06T06:46:24.169-08:002011-02-06T06:46:24.169-08:00The amount of improvisation expected in Litzt or R...The amount of improvisation expected in Litzt or Rachmaninov is nowhere near what is normally expected in jazz. <br /><br />Anon,<br /><br />And about clapping to classical- that has nothing to do with rhythmic flexibility. You do not appear to grasp the concept. Jazz is easy to clap to because it "swings". It is *because* the notes are held for very slightly differing periods that some beats seem heavier on a consistent basis. Those beats stand out and will be clapped to.FeministXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01635838586833298292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-72546360917322430832011-02-06T02:19:57.180-08:002011-02-06T02:19:57.180-08:00I've known plenty of classical performers - pr...I've known plenty of classical performers - professional musicians in orchestras etc - who were as dumb as three boxes of rocks. Not sure how one reconciles this with Steve Sailer's conclusion. (Because orchestral players' labor unions tend to be remarkably powerful, even in countries like America where unionism is on the skids generally, it's hard nowadays to dismiss even the most lethargic player from his job.)Leonardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-294074889217135732011-02-06T02:02:21.621-08:002011-02-06T02:02:21.621-08:00Interesting about brass instruments.
It's wor...Interesting about brass instruments.<br /><br />It's worth considering how much styles drive instrumentation and how much instruments drive styles. Given the existence of the saxophone, how inevitable was the development of a more sexualized music like jazz?Steve Sailerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920109042402850214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-88558721888181220662011-02-05T20:29:11.543-08:002011-02-05T20:29:11.543-08:00Here's a rendition of Louis Couperin's unm...Here's a rendition of Louis Couperin's unmeasured prelude no. 9, played on a Yamaha YPR9 electronic keyboard (using a vibraphone setting!):<br /><br />http://www.andrys.com/lcoup9.m3ucrawfurdmuirnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8828384056475259672011-02-05T20:18:31.929-08:002011-02-05T20:18:31.929-08:00FeministX - Again, it depends upon whether by '...FeministX - Again, it depends upon whether by 'classical' one has in mind the narrower definition, meaning music from the period following the Baroque/Rococo and preceding the Romantic, or its broader signification as European art music before (say) the deaths of Puccini or Rachmaninoff. But even within the less inclusive category, there is music in which the performer has a great deal of interpretive and improvisational leeway. Any concerto that has a place for a cadenza is an invitation to the improvisational skills of the performer. It was also standard practice well into the classical period strictly so called for a composer to provide a figured bass, the realization of which was largely up to the instrumentalists responsible for it.<br /><br />There are even more remarkable examples in the Baroque period, such as the unmeasured preludes of such 17th-c. French composers as Louis Couperin, Champion de Chambonnières, and Jean-Henri d'Anglebert. See:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmeasured_prelude<br /><br />An easy example to play is Henry Purcell's imitation of such a piece, with the realization written out, in the prelude to the "Suit of Lessons" (Z. 665).crawfurdmuirnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-6339783634884109542011-02-05T20:15:44.498-08:002011-02-05T20:15:44.498-08:00And kids should be made aware of this fullness of ...And kids should be made aware of this fullness of life. They should be made to come in contact with the rawness of life too. Besides, kids naturally relate to animals in zoo and nature and all that. Kids should be led toward classical music, not taken straight to it while everything else is bypassed and neglected. <br />Without connection to the raw source of life, its creativity,and musical spirit, classical music cannot be truly appreciated. It's like in WINGS OF DESIRE. The angel abandons his wings and becomes human. Just being a refined spiritual creature wasn't enough for him. He needed to feel real emotions and real pain and real raindrops. <br />Indeed, what is the point of heaven without the experience of life? Going to heaven and being one with God only has meaning if one has lived a life. If classical music is the heaven of music, one should know the music of the earth before one reaches for the gold-lit sky. <br /><br />It's like the casting of the bell in ANDREI RUBLEV. Tarkovsky doesn't just show us the wonderful final product but shows us the crazy, arduous, unpredictable, haphazard, violent, and wild process. And from this Andrei Rublev himself comes to understand that an artist, no matter how talented, cannot divorce himself from the raw stuff of life.<br /> <br />The odd thing about Chua is that the lifestory of her ancestors is very interesting, dramatic, compelling, the very stuff life's ups and downs. Even as she makes a big deal out of it, it's as though she's going all out to shield her children from that reality. It's as if, on some level, she feels ashamed at the lowly hardships and difficulties underwent by her ancestors and only wants the best, refined, and dignified stuff for her kids.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-4408439328718856882011-02-05T20:15:44.101-08:002011-02-05T20:15:44.101-08:00And kids should be made aware of this fullness of ...And kids should be made aware of this fullness of life. They should be made to come in contact with the rawness of life too. Besides, kids naturally relate to animals in zoo and nature and all that. Kids should be led toward classical music, not taken straight to it while everything else is bypassed and neglected. <br />Without connection to the raw source of life, its creativity,and musical spirit, classical music cannot be truly appreciated. It's like in WINGS OF DESIRE. The angel abandons his wings and becomes human. Just being a refined spiritual creature wasn't enough for him. He needed to feel real emotions and real pain and real raindrops. <br />Indeed, what is the point of heaven without the experience of life? Going to heaven and being one with God only has meaning if one has lived a life. If classical music is the heaven of music, one should know the music of the earth before one reaches for the gold-lit sky. <br /><br />It's like the casting of the bell in ANDREI RUBLEV. Tarkovsky doesn't just show us the wonderful final product but shows us the crazy, arduous, unpredictable, haphazard, violent, and wild process. And from this Andrei Rublev himself comes to understand that an artist, no matter how talented, cannot divorce himself from the raw stuff of life.<br /> <br />The odd thing about Chua is that the lifestory of her ancestors is very interesting, dramatic, compelling, the very stuff life's ups and downs. Even as she makes a big deal out of it, it's as though she's going all out to shield her children from that reality. It's as if, on some level, she feels ashamed at the lowly hardships and difficulties underwent by her ancestors and only wants the best, refined, and dignified stuff for her kids.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-29614949454352981462011-02-05T20:15:23.211-08:002011-02-05T20:15:23.211-08:00Here's the problem with control-freak parents ...Here's the problem with control-freak parents who start their kids off with classical music. They are starting with refined stuff than with raw stuff. Kids need to come in contact with the raw before they come to know the refined. It's like you don't start mountain climbing at the top but at the bottom. You must first know the world of dirt, plants, rivers, streams, animals, people, etc, before you venture up the mountain. The view from the peak is thrilling because you've been down there at the bottom with rest of mankind, animalkind, plantkind, and earthkind. Even at the top, you feel an emotional connection to the world below--with all its good stuff, bad stuff, beauty, ugliness, nobility, vulgarity, etc. Astronauts out in space appreciate the view of Earth because they've been down there. Similarly, a diamond gem is cut out of rough diamond rock, marble sculpture is made from a crude slab of marble, and gold ring is made from a clump of gold. Before you get to the refined final product, you must first know the feel of the rough stuff. Only then do you appreciate the finer stuff. It's natural for man to refine stuff, make it more perfect, more poetic. Poets work on their verses over and over, and filmmakers edit the raw material into a movie. But they must first deal with raw reality, raw truth, real emotions, real passions, etc. The refined object is the final product of a process that begins with the raw stuff of life and creative materials. Though electric guitar playing became very elaborate and sophisticated, it began with country and blues guitar playing, and the great guitarists understood and appreciated this connection. As Dylan said of rock music, kids shouldn't just listen to him but the people who came before and influenced him. <br /><br />Similarly, a gardener doesn't begin with flowers. He begins with seeds, soil, water, etc. He must get his hands dirty and he must have a feel for earth. And the seed sprouts by feeding on the nutriets in the soil--the rot, the dead insects and leaves, the crap, etc. It reaches above the ground and toward the sun, but it is connected to the earth. It has roots in the soil. The pleasure of a gardener as he gazes at the blooming petals owes to the fact that he toiled with the soil, He understands that the flower's beauty doesn't exist independently. It is linked to the soil. Likewise, music is connected to the muck of life, creativity, emotions, etc. Classical music refined and grew out of that matter. Great classical artists seemed to understand this, but I don't think people like Chua do. I can understand her disdain for the trashy vulgarity of much of modern pop music, but her disdain of Gamelan music as 'simple' folk music is just stupid. She sees the blooming petals but is blind to the stem, the roots below the earth, the earth itself. <br /><br />So, children should be introduced to folk music, the soil, the muck, and nutrient of all music, before they're introduced to classical music. Similarly, a mother loves her kids precisely because of the pain and ewww-ishness of childbirth, with all the yucky slimy stuff coming out of the vagina. But that's where life comes from. No child arrived on the planet all clean, pretty, toilet-trained, well-behaved. Instead, the parent has to take raw biological material and shape it into a 'person' through caring, concern, affection, and all that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8238890817816434132011-02-05T19:10:48.831-08:002011-02-05T19:10:48.831-08:00The danger of classicism is form without individua...The danger of classicism is form without individuality. The danger of modernism is individuality without form. <br />People who are taught only to play or draw in a certain way--to master established techniques--are not encouraged to develop their own style or personality; and this may indeed be a problem with many Asian classical musicians. Also, some music teachers demand that their students do it ONLY THIS WAY, and the students come think there is no other way. <br /> <br />But the other danger is excess modernism where students are not required to master anything but just 'express' whatever. Many art schools don't even teach stuff like drawing anymore. It's 'anything goes' mentality. It's like everyone's an 'instant artist' and it's 'reactionary' to 'force' them to master old dead white male art. Requiring students to draw 'conventionally' would be to 'impose' a discredited or outdated definition of art on his budding creativity and originality. In fine art, this leads to all the crap we see in contemporary museums. In music, we have a lot of crappy noise which puts itself forth as 'bold', 'daring', 'different', and 'avant garde' or some such. <br />Early modernists knew both form and embraced freedom. PIcasso learned the conventional craft of art--and knew all about it--before he embarked on his experiments. But the later fools just did whatever and got worse and worse. And when the art world got tired of all that, art was no longer art but 'art', something to be determined by the 'discourse' between the 'artist', critic, market forces, etc, etc. It became a form of sociological intellectual game, and maybe idiot Warhol was its master. After all, no one really cares about WHAT Warhol did but HOW he did it. <br /><br />The Romantic period was especially interesting as a bridge between form and individuality. It broke free from the formal strictures of the classical period and made room for greater individuality but it didn't believe art was 'whatever you feel like'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8744430648549798172011-02-05T18:54:36.767-08:002011-02-05T18:54:36.767-08:00Whatever one may say of Rock Music, it most certai...Whatever one may say of Rock Music, it most certainly unleashed the greatest vocal variations and styles ever. And lots of personalities too, everything from Lennon's snarl to Dylan's growl to McGuinn's snicker to Hendrix's roar to Burdon's raging to McCartney's sweetness to Springsteen's dash to Gaye's groove, etc. Too bad classical suppressed all this by not only favoring but demanding only few sets of vocal styles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-58561101811030083182011-02-05T18:50:56.238-08:002011-02-05T18:50:56.238-08:00Another problem of classical music is its vocal re...Another problem of classical music is its vocal restrictions. Opera may well be the greatest form of vocal art, but, as with everything else, its expressive range is limited. It's emotionally grandiose, ripe, rich, creamy, etc. Certainly powerful, beautiful, tragic, uplifting, noble, humorous, but there's a whole bunch of emotional shades it cannot express. Pavarotti's operatic takes on song-songs are insufferable. The problem isn't opera per se but the rules of classical music that required all SERIOUS vocal music to be either be choir-ish or opera-ish. Even those German lieds are mostly female falsetto or some guy bellowing. Such refinement or narrowing of style removes or suppresses variety, personality, etc. Again, the problem isn't the opera or German lied per se but the idea in classical music that all vocal music had to be like that. Classical music had no use for someone like Stevie Nicks, which is too bad. <br />This may sound philistine-ish, but I'd rather listen to JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR than most classical vocals. True, JCS is mostly crap, but Yvonne Elliman's "I don't know how to love him" has real heart, personality, etc. It really sounds like a hooker who's come to feel shame and know grace. If it had been song in an operatic or German lied style, the hooker wouldn't sound like a hooker but an iconized sacralized version of a hooker. Western painting and classical music elevated 'nobleness', beauty, and holiness to such extent that naturalness was often lost. Just look at all those Crucifixion paintings where everyone is painted with ripe colors and making SIGNIFICANT gestures. It's overly mannered. Now, there is a place for that kind of art, and I'm not knocking it. But when it comes to dominate THE RULES OF WHAT ART MUST BE--and all SERIOUS artists conform to it--, there goes vitality, variety, and vivacity out the window. <br />There isn't much vitality in classical vocals. There's a lot of beauty, grandeur, nobility, etc, but little feeling of 'this is me and my feelings from the heart'. Too much of classical music are like those giant European paintings of classical themes or dead Jesus and people striking grand poses all around him. I mean enough already. I'm not saying Danny Boy is better than an opera; I'm only saying classical music should have provided room for vocal music other than choir or opera or overly mannered German lied stuff. And so, I'd rather listen to Danny Boy than German lied. I'd rather listen to old German folk songs than German lied. Anything but German lied.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55359297870323680522011-02-05T18:27:12.588-08:002011-02-05T18:27:12.588-08:00Regarding the piano, one could argue if classical ...Regarding the piano, one could argue if classical or jazz went further in exploring its potential, but one thing for sure, jazz piano was more dazzling--like musical skipping stones. One problem with classical piano was its one-dimensionality. Classical piano can be fast and virtuoso, but it seems to concentrate on one idea at a time whereas jazz had the feeling of multi-dimensionality. Jazz piano has more surprises. It is elegant and playful at the same time whereas classical piano tend to be either wimpy-tinkly or heavy-sticky. Of course, jazz piano cannot do a lot of things classical piano do, and I suppose it's kinda like applea and oranges. <br /><br />Similar to the neglect of brass is the neglect of beat in classical music. Western music has beat in marching bands, folk music, etc, but generally drums were distrusted as 'savage' and 'wild'. So, drums in marching band music tend to be orderly and disciplined than free and colorful. And since Western culture had been moralized by Christian distrust of sensuality, even folk music could had to go easy on too much rhythm and beat. (Of course, white people weren't all that rhythmic to begin with.) In the area of the beat, Hindus, Africans, and even Japanese were far more expressive than Europeans. For Africans, it wasn't just music but a language with which people could hold entire conversations. Before blacks had free-form rap battles, Africans had drum-trash-talk-contests. As a result, Africans developed a very rich and varied use of drum music. <br />Maybe it was necessary for the West to suppress excess drum-ishness since a civlization needs orderly and disciplined people--just look what's happening to the underclasses in the US with all that hip hip ass-shaking beat. Even so, something was lost in Western music with the suppression of beat--and indeed modern Western music gained a new life through incorporation of this beat. Modern pop music owes a great deal to Western melody and harmony, but it wouldn't be the same without the beat and rhythm that came from non-western, especially African/black, sources. Brazil has tons of great music, and they owe something to African rhythm and beat--Africans also had a great sense of harmony through their folk songs. There's one theory that the music of Amazing Grace may have been inspired by an African songAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com