tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post8474911808113334278..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: SAT score changes by race since 1996Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-43538798151897988252011-09-17T23:08:46.102-07:002011-09-17T23:08:46.102-07:00"Ever notice why state tests are always chang..."Ever notice why state tests are always changing, reconfiguring, etc? hard to draw patterns when you can't keep a baseline. Wonder why?"<br /><br />The testing companies are staffed by euro whites who love change and innovation.<br /><br />That is why there is still one orthodox church in the east, but in the west there are thousands of little denominations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65884301581456630472011-09-16T11:54:14.907-07:002011-09-16T11:54:14.907-07:00It's a mix of things.
First, the 2005 changes...It's a mix of things.<br /><br />First, the 2005 changes made the math subject material easier, but an actual high score became harder because there were fewer hard problems and the impact of "unforced errors" became higher. Kids who were bright but careless could get a high score because the occasional unforced error was wiped out and more with their performance on the high difficulty questions. That last sentence describes whites more than Asians. <br /><br />So since 2005, the ability to nail every question and not make unforced errors--something that drill does, indeed, help--has been rewarded, whereas the number of creatively difficult problems is 0 or 1 per test. This hurts white students, on average, more than Asian students just by personality trait, and then the Asian tendency to drill for this test gives even more of an advantage. <br /><br />The reading test has been made unequivocally easier. I'm not sure what you mean about some reading questions being moved to the writing section. This is not true. The writing test is a near-exact replica of the old English Composition Achievement test, or the English Writing Subject test. There were no changes to it at all from a content perspective--they just changed the type of essay prompt and reduced the number of questions.<br /><br />Certainly, the easier reading test makes it easier for Asians to get high scores. The writing test rewards attention to detail above all.<br /><br />So the test changes play a part, both in how they reward the traits more likely to be in asians over whites, and then in the Asian prep ritual--which really has to be seen to be believed. I teach in these schools, and the kids are in prep taking tests for 2 years. Even the ones who aren't getting super high scores are getting better scores, and that's bumping the average up.<br /><br />Then there's the fact that Koreans, Chinese, and Indians are immigrating here in huge numbers, which is presumably offsetting the once larger percentage of Filipinos and Tongans. <br /><br />I'm assuming you were only looking at US students, right? Koreans in Korea are taking the test as well, and there they study 40-60 hours a week, instead of school. The prep schools there buy copies of the most recent tests from students and use the tests to prep their students (something that's frowned upon here, although not technically illegal). The kids learn how to write essays by rote, and have whole essays memorized (use this essay for "change", this one for "education", and so on).Mitchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-36222456025544322332011-09-16T11:24:55.716-07:002011-09-16T11:24:55.716-07:00These widening racial gaps are a sad reminder how ...These widening racial gaps are a sad reminder how far we as a society have yet to go to build a fair and just society. <br /><br />Whatever self-esteem, diversity and other PC educational movements have been implemented over the pa<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0" rel="nofollow">Dennis</a>Dennis, Not Old or a Ladynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-69588016368473716552011-09-16T11:22:32.012-07:002011-09-16T11:22:32.012-07:00"It would be interesting to see SAT gender ga..."It would be interesting to see SAT gender gaps by race."<br /><br />along the same lines, i've proposed bizarre HBD contests on here before. for instance, could a group of random chinese women outwork, outconstruct, and outengineer a group of random mestizo men? the mean group IQ difference is between 15 and 20 points according to the evidence we have, yet men are natural builders and constructors.<br /><br />how much IQ would be required to overcome the natural instincts and abilities men have to build and contruct, versus women's complete lack of any instincts or ability for that kind of thing on average? "He's handy" is a description you hear of guys who have even below average brainpower - you never hear that about even a brilliant woman.jodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-4660437375356781742011-09-16T11:17:05.716-07:002011-09-16T11:17:05.716-07:00still gotta break the "asian" category o...still gotta break the "asian" category out into groups to see who is doing what. there are easily as many flips as koreans, so they would offset, leaving the chinese to have most of the net positive effect. nammers and thais would probably offset too but with more moderate effects alone. indians and pakistanis would offset.<br /><br />it's kind of interesting the participation rate went up and "white" performance still went up slightly. since lots of non-europeans are in the "white" category now, and their proportion of the "white" category grows every year, this probably means the test taking performance of actual europeans went up a little more than the numbers indicate. the population of ashkenazi jewish kids is declining, so they're having less effect on this category over time as well. not that they ever had some huge effect, being perhaps 3% of the people counted in the category. today the amount of people who are not european but count as "white" is probably 10%, conservatively. every 9/11 terrorist, for instance, was "white" according to the US government.jodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-19882993920730759572011-09-16T10:24:21.973-07:002011-09-16T10:24:21.973-07:00It would be interesting to see SAT gender gaps by ...It would be interesting to see SAT gender gaps by race. Since the SAT math doesn't go beyond what a typical middle class East Asian would study in the 9th grade and is, mostly, a matter of practice for those who are able to understand it, is the Asian gender gap significantly narrower than the white gender gap? Since alcoholism affects men earlier in life (or used to, at least), is the Amerindian gender gap narrower?Mayanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-13588873796745160312011-09-16T10:08:20.357-07:002011-09-16T10:08:20.357-07:00"I think this is why black reading/writing is..."I think this is why black reading/writing is so bad--the grammar in the black community is definitely non-standard."<br /><br />Well, blacks do even worse on the math part than on the verbal part.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-5837014971836375812011-09-16T08:36:59.740-07:002011-09-16T08:36:59.740-07:00Students today definitely take the SAT multiple ti...Students today definitely take the SAT multiple times in an attempt to maximize their scores.<br /><br />I've known kids who started taking the test in their freshmen year so they can get used to it.<br /><br />Most kids at my high school in the '70s took the test just once.poolsidenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-87622625925796510242011-09-16T08:20:48.425-07:002011-09-16T08:20:48.425-07:00Ever notice why state tests are always changing, r...Ever notice why state tests are always changing, reconfiguring, etc? hard to draw patterns when you can't keep a baseline. Wonder why?alexishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14958611059030729965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-67674435249658029442011-09-16T07:38:18.111-07:002011-09-16T07:38:18.111-07:00I've got those pictures of "whites" ...I've got those pictures of "whites" posted at Vdare in my mind.<br /><br />For purposes of low IQ are some folks that might not be thought of as white treated as if they were white.<br /><br />The whole if one is a perp, he is white, and if one is a victim, he is some kind of "other".<br /><br />Steve any chance that you could require those of us posting as Anon... give some kind of ID.<br /><br />GoatweedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-80634388017810267992011-09-16T07:32:24.508-07:002011-09-16T07:32:24.508-07:00This trend will provoke a counterblast of discrimi...This trend will provoke a counterblast of discrimination against asians and whites in college admissions. Watch-- the odds ratios for admission by race of applicant will move in inverse relation to SAT score achievement by race.<br /><br />The College Board's barrel-scraping is making things worse. Too many college admissions staffers think they have a duty to compensate for disparity in qualifications by race. When they read that minority scores are falling (and asian scores rising) relative to whites, admissions staffers will try to "fix" the situation by favoring low-scoring NAM applicants over high-scoring applicants, even though from a neutral viewpoint that is perverse. If the College Board didn't recruit so many unqualified test-takers, the statistical disparities wouldn't look so bad and the admissions staffers would calm down a bit.Pipernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-29942038298679172212011-09-16T06:54:21.658-07:002011-09-16T06:54:21.658-07:00The Asian verbal increase may arise from a change ...The Asian verbal increase may arise from a change in the nationality mix of immigrants who count as Asian. From Census charts it appears that Indian immigration has increased much faster than Chinese or Korean over the last 20 years. Indians already speak something resembling English.Polistrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09594313902571823549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50435398576004489162011-09-16T06:39:32.837-07:002011-09-16T06:39:32.837-07:00The large number of high scorers is frankly suspic...The large number of high scorers is frankly suspicious, at least as regards the claim that the test is the same difficulty over the time span in question. I suspect that the test has been getting easier and that the (rather small, really) declines you see for some groups are just a residual. Of course the guys who design the tests know, but they aren't talking.bbartloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809977239420353712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9640963628450912292011-09-16T05:51:59.999-07:002011-09-16T05:51:59.999-07:00There are a lot more second-generation, native-Eng...There are a lot more second-generation, native-English-speaking Asian-Americans than there used to be. That would help on the Verbal, no?slumber_jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9385029707891454222011-09-16T05:47:42.656-07:002011-09-16T05:47:42.656-07:00"These kids who take both tests probably tend..."These kids who take both tests probably tend to be fairly ambitious ones who are looking to game the system by taking both tests, then submitting only the test score they did better upon."<br /><br />Not quite. Ambitious students are searching nationawide and applying to way more colleges, then rank ordering the ones they get admitted to based on the US News and World Report ratings. Largely, it's the relentless pursuit of prestige by Chinese students driving this. A white student is likely to accept the fact fairly early in his high school career that he isn't Ivy material, or decide that the odds are too long to be bothered applying if he is in only the top 2 percentile, but not Chinese kids.<br /><br />With 2100 SAT scores Chinese kids will apply to every last Ivy League school and all the second tier schools to boot. If your kid only went to the University of Illinois, your Chinese neighbors will endlessly brag to you about how their kid got into Macalester College. I know, it's pretty stupid but in a culture of a billion people who mostly look alike and live crammed together in shoe box size apartments, every jot and tittle of prestige in a resume may mean the difference between being big boss or having someone's boot on your neck. To the Chinese education = prestige = influence = money = happiness, which is easy to understand in a place where middle class really means the top 5%.<br /><br />But now that immigration and affirmative action have destroyed an easygoing, sheltered middle class lifestyle as a white American birthright, you will see white kids acting increasingly like asians.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-81319181533304575912011-09-16T05:10:19.904-07:002011-09-16T05:10:19.904-07:00"the grammar in the black community is defini..."the grammar in the black community is definitely non-standard"<br /><br />So in other words, The Test Is Racist (tm).Gilbert Ratchethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13448063418910836848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64856729528194015772011-09-16T04:50:23.212-07:002011-09-16T04:50:23.212-07:00Off topic, but I was listening to NPR about the we...Off topic, but I was listening to NPR about the wealth gap. Such a big fuss, all of this; it seems to preoccupy the whole culture, and no-one but iSteve is saying the obvious. Whites are still a majority, things have to break your way eventually. Too bad there isn't a better way for you to capitalize on it /right now/. <br /><br />We need a new way of seeing / framing things, such that the biological truth can be openly expressed + tolerated. Or even just internally accepted, even if still talked around. I suppose /something/ must and will change as the racial, genetic effect is made too clear, or, the rigidity of enforcement (discrimination by outcome) causes it to reach evident ridiculousness and breaks.<br /><br />But maybe I'm assuming people in goodwill truly believe that all races have the same potential, and aren't just fanatically sticking harder to orthodoxy as the doubt grows.panjandrumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-71965406207333460632011-09-16T02:37:27.225-07:002011-09-16T02:37:27.225-07:00I should mention that the study by Sackett and She...I should mention that the study by <a href="http://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/sacketshen.pdf" rel="nofollow">Sackett and Shen</a> lists the black-white and Hispanic-white gaps in terms of Cohen’s d going back to 1987, which I graphed on my <a href="http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2011/09/sats-cohens-d-topography-of-iq.html" rel="nofollow">blog</a> for the black-white gap.nooffensebuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02461190919466049463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-79071587967681247672011-09-16T02:13:09.744-07:002011-09-16T02:13:09.744-07:00“In contrast to all other ethnic groups, who fell ...“In contrast to all other ethnic groups, who fell farther behind whites over the last 15 years, Asians had a 5 point advantage over whites in 1996, which blossomed to a 49 point lead by 2011…”<br /><br />Yes, even though their increased participation outpaced that of whites throughout that period. Murray and Herrnstein accessed the full records going back to 1976. They said that standard deviations by race only started being listed in 1980, and I do not think Murray and Herrnstein used pooled variance for Cohen’s d comparisons. In 1980 (I think, as there was some ambiguity in the text), Asians had an average math score of 509 (86 points lower than now!) and an average verbal score of 396. Black people had an average verbal score of 330 (98 points lower than now!), which was 1.16 standard deviations lower than whites. Their math score was 1.27 standard deviations lower. Hence, Murray and Herrnstein were impressed that black people made so much progress, but that <a href="http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2011/08/meet-towelie-iq-test-of-future.html" rel="nofollow">came to a halt</a> after The Bell Curve was published. I am trying to request the older reports, and I would be happy to share them.nooffensebuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02461190919466049463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86213049437636265702011-09-16T00:47:25.539-07:002011-09-16T00:47:25.539-07:00As a test prep instructor, I can say that the key ...As a test prep instructor, I can say that the key to the SAT math is drill. There are not that may concepts and they are not too difficult but you have to be fast and accurate. Asians are notoriously good at drill. <br />But the verbal increase is more striking (10 times the white increase, whereas the Asian math increase is only 3 times the white increase). Reading and writing are tough to cram and depend mainly on having a good ear. I would guess that a lot of the improvement in the past 15 years come from the fact that a much, much larger fraction of Asians taking the SAT are native speakers and even children of native speakers so that they have developed good ears. For example, if their parents consistently say "me and him went to the store" for decades it is difficult to correct the student a few weeks before the test. I think this is why black reading/writing is so bad--the grammar in the black community is definitely non-standard.Antioco Dascalonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10617669156986603638noreply@blogger.com