tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post8777124495749090287..comments2024-03-28T16:22:14.888-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Skyscrapers v. campusesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73253882599740925132011-02-10T20:52:16.418-08:002011-02-10T20:52:16.418-08:00Lawyers and financiers work in high-rises because ...Lawyers and financiers work in high-rises because downtown is traditionally where such work is done, because they're in service businesses and need to be near clients, and because downtown is where courthouses tend to be. Engineers aren't generally directly serving customers, and such companies aren't traditionally in city centers, nor do they need to be. Engineers are more likely to be involved in research or in manufacturing, and that's not something you'd generally do in a high rise.<br /><br /><i>"In Washington the office buildings aren't allowed to to be more than 12 stories lest they over shadow the Washington Monument the world's tallest all masonry building."</i><br /><br />I thought it was the Capitol they weren't allowed to rise above? Anyway, Charleston, SC has a similar height restriction, with the maximum height being that of the steeple of one of the old churches.<br /><br />The problem with big buildings is that they leave a very huge footprint on a city when 5pm rolls around and all those workers hit the streets. In cities where most of the resdidents live in single-family homes - and that's most cities - public transit isn't a viable option and all the workers are in cars. A city of low rises at least <i>seems</i> mor efficient: dense enough to maintain vibrancy, but not so dense as to have a lot of bottlenecks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-37278115378085952042011-02-10T05:00:56.077-08:002011-02-10T05:00:56.077-08:00Steve,
As a former Chicagoan, I thought you'd...Steve,<br /><br />As a former Chicagoan, I thought you'd want to know that there are now a lot of office parks outside of downtown made from old warehouses and factories. The most successful are probably the Ravenwood lofts on Ravenwood and Lawrence. These have a campus-y vibe to them. The Wachowski brothers even have a studio located in one of them.<br /><br />Urban living is Generation Y's ultimate signal so expect a lot more of it in the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-634421587600916622011-02-09T15:25:55.349-08:002011-02-09T15:25:55.349-08:00Possibly interesting sidelight to the SV campus th...Possibly interesting sidelight to the SV campus thing: about 10 yrs. ago, a company that built many of those low rise tech campuses, Berg & Co., sued Schwab. Berg's bookkeeper, a vibrant mestiza, had embezzled $14 million and, after buying the ferrari and some land in Hawaii, had used much of it to play the market with Schwab. Berg's theory was that Schwab should have known a bookkeeper wouldn't have that kind of cash to "invest." To me this looked like a summary judgment loser, but Schwab settled for $4 mil.volokh lurkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39797565357035725662011-02-09T15:12:43.909-08:002011-02-09T15:12:43.909-08:00I can see how people who have never left the Unite...I can see how people who have never left the United States would dislike mass transit, since mass transit in the US is either shitty or nonexistent. But spend some time in Shanghai, Hong Kong, Tokyo, or Singapore and you'll never want to live in a city without a decent metro system again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73685301520722511102011-02-09T14:44:47.728-08:002011-02-09T14:44:47.728-08:00The population density of paris is greater than an...The population density of paris is greater than any US city:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_proper_by_population_density<br /><br />You don't need skyscrapers to have a dense city.sfernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-41953874340813004162011-02-09T14:40:43.386-08:002011-02-09T14:40:43.386-08:00"Incidentally, I am amazed at this hostility ..."Incidentally, I am amazed at this hostility to skyscrapers. Skyscraper is a quintessential part of American cultural heritage. They are a symbol of this country, one of the first things that the foreigners think about when they hear about America. Yes, I get it, the skyscrapers are in cities, and cities are full of people you don't like. But still."<br /><br />Insightful observation.<br /><br />Also, Ayn Rand seemed to like skycrapers.<br /><br />In the New York Area, the important people work in Manhattan, the engineers work in office parks in New Jersey.<br /><br />The engineers are not considered important because they are Chinese and Indians, and as you know, our high-level executives are RACIST.Half Sigmahttp://www.halfsigma.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-7588234802767139282011-02-09T12:19:50.364-08:002011-02-09T12:19:50.364-08:00" Engineers don't work in skyscrapers bec..." Engineers don't work in skyscrapers because it's a low prestige occupation. Corporations don't want to waste expensive skyscraper office space on engineers."<br /><br /> Engineering a low-prestige<br />occupation? How could Americans<br />consider engineering like that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-79827109209972008722011-02-09T08:54:11.534-08:002011-02-09T08:54:11.534-08:00"'You could just picture it filling up wi...<i>"'You could just picture it filling up with Chinese and Indians. Disgusting.'<br /><br /><br />What the hell is this, Steve. I believe in HBD, but this blatant white supremacy shouldn't be encouraged on your website. You should focus more on differentiating between productive immigrants and unproductive immigrants in your blog posts."</i><br /><br />Funny guy. But leave the dry wit to Steve. He really does do it best.Kylienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22690537083985407302011-02-09T08:10:17.126-08:002011-02-09T08:10:17.126-08:00Washington DC also has a height limit.
Skyscrape...Washington DC also has a height limit. <br /><br />Skyscrapers did indeed come from Chicago. The Monadnock building was the last of the compressive tall office buildings. It had masonry walls 12 feet thick. There wasn't much office space left on the ground floor what with all the load bearing walls.<br /><br />Skyscrapers are a product of structural steel. In Washington the office buildings aren't allowed to to be more than 12 stories lest they over shadow the Washington Monument the world's tallest all masonry building.<br /><br />So the limitations of stone are visited on the buildings made with iron skeletons - recursive irony?. <br /><br />AlbertosaurusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56208538670258261842011-02-09T07:40:05.621-08:002011-02-09T07:40:05.621-08:00"ogunsiron said...
Same here.
I like city l..."ogunsiron said...<br /><br />Same here.<br /><br />I like city living in general. I like well designed, clean mass transit too. What matters the most if whom you're sharing the city with."<br /><br />Exactly so. The thing that makes for a good mass-transit system is the same thing that makes a "good school" good - the people who use it.Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-3757573424353391962011-02-09T07:37:05.254-08:002011-02-09T07:37:05.254-08:00"Captain Jack Aubrey said...
Honestly, I'..."Captain Jack Aubrey said...<br /><br />Honestly, I'm in love with skyscrapers and bullet trains, but I'm not sure there's generally a lot of economic sense in either."<br /><br />I suspect that high-speed trains would make a lot of economic sense, if the planning and construction of them were not stymied and interfered with by lawyers and environmentalists, and if the TSA did not take over the terminals and turn them into the same kind of 4th-amendment free zone that the airports have become. In short, if America today were more like the America of 50 years ago, it might make sense.Mr. Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-58767202146141314892011-02-09T06:47:44.204-08:002011-02-09T06:47:44.204-08:00"Big buildings are the reflections of big, ce..."Big buildings are the reflections of big, centralized, top-down organizations."<br /><br />As someone who worked both in skyscrapers and in suburban "campuses" I can tell you that you are full of ______.<br /><br />A typical layout of a suburban office is a giant, flat, soul-crushing cubicle farm. Skyscrapers on the other hand are relatively skinny, which makes for a small, more private floor plan. A floor of a skyscraper typically has private offices around the perimeter, with only a few cubes here and there. This is why the lawyers, the investment bankers, the high-powered salespeople like skyscrapers so much. It's perfect for a kind of small business or department that have mostly "important" people plus a few of the supporting personnel. If you put engineers in skyscrapers you'd have to give most of them private offices and this is simply not done.<br /><br />Incidentally, I am amazed at this hostility to skyscrapers. Skyscraper is a quintessential part of American cultural heritage. They are a symbol of this country, one of the first things that the foreigners think about when they hear about America. Yes, I get it, the skyscrapers are in cities, and cities are full of people you don't like. But still.Has to benoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56547290548856611112011-02-09T06:18:01.872-08:002011-02-09T06:18:01.872-08:00Johnson: I believe in HBD, but this blatant white...Johnson: <i>I believe in HBD, but this blatant white supremacy shouldn't be encouraged on your website.</i> <br /><br />While we're at it, could we leave the stupid and sloppy use of "supremacy" and "supremacist" to the NYT and the SPLC? I have no idea if "eh" is a supremacist of any sort, and neither do you. "Ethnocentrist" or "racialist" or even (in this restricted context) "racist" would be accurate and sufficient.<br /><br /><i>You should focus more on differentiating between productive immigrants and unproductive immigrants in your blog posts.</i><br /><br />Or maybe readers should wean themselves from question-begging. (I don't know if not making a distinction between ethnocentrism and supremacism is a cause or a consequence of that tendency.) Since there is wide and lively disagreement about whether economics should be the chief or only criterion for immigrant selection, why should he? (Not that I've noticed that Steve has any aversion to that particular aspect.)Rohan Sweenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-50425941105308880342011-02-09T05:58:56.657-08:002011-02-09T05:58:56.657-08:00Both skyscrapers and campusus are white elephants ...Both skyscrapers and campusus are white elephants that are costly to operate and maintain. Companies would be better off to rent or own non-descript buildings in industrial parks or other like spaces. How many people really identify a company with it's headquarters anyway? Buildings like skyscrapers and office campusus are just ego boosters to the corporate board and architects.Dahindanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-11698301306057086762011-02-08T23:11:32.057-08:002011-02-08T23:11:32.057-08:00I find the skylines of Chicago and New York viscer...<i>I find the skylines of Chicago and New York viscerally exhilarating</i><br /><br />Interesting to look at and pleasant to live and work in are different things. The pyramids are interesting to look at but were not so much fun as a work site.<br /><br />Life in skyscrapers is ideological. Odds are you're going to be sucked into some damn committee about how to allocate space or organizing common services. You wind up living a life designed in broad outlines by the architect, and I'm inherently suspicious of smart people telling me how I should live.<br /><br />I suspect the campus approach has economic advantages as well. For example, you can incrementally add or rehab buildings with less disruption to the rest of the company. <br /><br />Big buildings are the reflections of big, centralized, top-down organizations. No thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-55577269110693923072011-02-08T22:48:25.480-08:002011-02-08T22:48:25.480-08:00"I guess I'm alone here, but I really lik..."I guess I'm alone here, but I really like skyscrapers. I find the skylines of Chicago and New York viscerally exhilarating: the first sight of them from the air or driving into the city just excites me. How strange for me to find a bunch of smart people, many of whom strike me as like-minded in a lot of ways, who seem to see no value in this phenomenon. On a purely aesthetic level, I can't imagine preferring an office park to this alternative. I'm baffled."<br /><br />You're not alone slumberer_j....I mean, I prefer rural landscapes over any other type of setting, but if I'm going to be in a city, I at least want it to look like a city, and not my old high school. I agree with whoever said office parks are sterile. Many of them seem like warehouses (in my section of the country at least). Who would want to work in a warehouse.SouthernAnonyianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-17788924851007141702011-02-08T21:25:47.410-08:002011-02-08T21:25:47.410-08:002/08/2011
slumbrer_j said...
I guess I'm ...2/08/2011<br />slumbrer_j said...<br /><br /> I guess I'm alone here, but I really like skyscrapers....<br />----<br />Same here. <br />I like city living in general. I like well designed, clean mass transit too. What matters the most if whom you're sharing the city with.<br />-----<br />slumbrer_j said...<br />... smart people, many of whom strike me as like-minded in a lot of ways, who seem to see no value in this phenomenon. <br />------<br />A lot of right wing people reflexively look down upon anything that's closely associated with swipples. Just because I enjoy skyscrapers, lattes and walking around my city ( it's pretty safe)doesn't mean that I should be posting at the huffington's post instead of here :)ogunsironhttp://www.gmail.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-5509386389930314342011-02-08T21:07:32.881-08:002011-02-08T21:07:32.881-08:00"Yeah making efficient use of things is bad t...<i>"Yeah making efficient use of things is bad times"</i><br /><br />Efficient use of what, land? The US has lots of land. Lots and lots and lots of it. 3.8 million square miles of it. If high rises are "efficient," then how come they're so damned expensive?<br /><br />Honestly, I'm in love with skyscrapers and bullet trains, but I'm not sure there's generally a lot of economic sense in either.Captain Jack Aubreynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-91420672790229125702011-02-08T21:06:46.633-08:002011-02-08T21:06:46.633-08:00"You could just picture it filling up with Ch..."You could just picture it filling up with Chinese and Indians. Disgusting."<br /><br />I thought this was quite obviously a troll.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-84348020358072410782011-02-08T21:00:29.318-08:002011-02-08T21:00:29.318-08:00@Nikos:
Thanks for the link to your talk, which i...@Nikos:<br /><br />Thanks for the link to your talk, which is interesting.<br /><br />You're almost certainly right in your excoriation of the concept of the "green" skyscraper. In fact, as you probably know, for many years now people have done analyses that seem to show that skyscrapers are not reasonable to build from a purely internal economic standpoint--even disregarding the externalities: more height=too much core, etc. Fair enough.<br /><br />Nevertheless, when you start discussing the social pathology of tall buildings, I can only imagine that you're unfamiliar with traditional ideas about how skyscrapers should interact with the street. The fact that people are building a lot of *bad* skyscrapers nowadays does not necessarily gainsay the practical and theoretical work of Louis Sullivan, for example.<br /><br />The notion of the skyscraper and its place in the urban environment neither started nor ended with the depredations of Le Corbusier, no matter what he or his acolytes wanted us to believe.slumber_jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-42920465751779175162011-02-08T20:16:25.761-08:002011-02-08T20:16:25.761-08:00I guess I'm alone here, but I really like skys...I guess I'm alone here, but I really like skyscrapers. I find the skylines of Chicago and New York viscerally exhilarating: the first sight of them from the air or driving into the city just excites me. How strange for me to find a bunch of smart people, many of whom strike me as like-minded in a lot of ways, who seem to see no value in this phenomenon. On a purely aesthetic level, I can't imagine preferring an office park to this alternative. I'm baffled.slumbrer_jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-23213674865457948252011-02-08T19:57:21.050-08:002011-02-08T19:57:21.050-08:00"It's interesting how the single most imp..."It's interesting how the single most important economic center to emerge in my lifetime -- Silicon Valley -- has resolutely resisted Glaeser's logic."<br /><br />it's not like they any real choice. You probably aren't even allowed to build a skyscraper in Silicon Valley. Or if you are, it would take you decades to get all the permissions, etc. This being California. <br /><br />Much simpler to build a bunch of barns and call them "campus".Has to benoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44862635742957221342011-02-08T19:42:13.711-08:002011-02-08T19:42:13.711-08:00I've heard that the Pixar campus is amazing.
...I've heard that the Pixar campus is amazing. <br /><br />One thing about the campus though is that you're isolated from the rest of your peers working at other companies. I can see how engineers would be corralled like this and lawyers less so.<br /><br />This isolation probably has it's own benefit in company loyalty, with the downside being cult like mass delusion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-83996230855396284712011-02-08T19:23:30.147-08:002011-02-08T19:23:30.147-08:00I'm starting to wonder if libertarian economis...I'm starting to wonder if libertarian economists aren't more harmful than middle-of-the-road ones.<br /><br />They do stress less state intervention, less of a welfare state, etc., but really that train has already left the station. The interventionist-welfare state has only grown over time and shows no signs of stopping, notwithstanding a dip below the trendline here and there.<br /><br />So, while ideologically we'd agree with them here, their stance is of little practical value.<br /><br />What about their views on things that *are* relatively up-for-grabs like immigration, housing, education, drugs, etc.?<br /><br />Most of them seem pretty nuts on most of these issues. Not just crazy, but stubbornly crazy -- haven't even looked at consequences, can't tell what matters to real people, and so on.<br /><br />That's more frightening than a crazy person who is just winging it and knows it.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65480324818526857612011-02-08T18:52:39.908-08:002011-02-08T18:52:39.908-08:00And yet Goldman Sachs just finished a new skyscrap...<i>And yet Goldman Sachs just finished a new skyscraper in downtown Manhattan, directly behind the WTC site.</i><br /><br />You do know the difference between a hedge fund and an investment bank, no? <br /><br />Many hedge funds have moved to Connecticut.<br /><br />Many investment banks have moved uptown from Lower to Midtown Manhattan.<br /><br />GS has stayed downtown.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com