tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post998427519318911286..comments2024-03-29T05:14:33.223-07:00Comments on Steve Sailer: iSteve: Nicholas Wade and Creativity v. IntelligenceUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger97125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65803676491449736442014-05-24T06:47:30.192-07:002014-05-24T06:47:30.192-07:00"I think that intelligence is deductive think..."I think that intelligence is deductive thinking and that creativity is spontaneous thinking."<br /><br />But lots of logical ideas are arrived at spontaneously. The connections just click into place when one least expects it. <br /><br />And there's an underlying pattern to creative thought. It may not be logical like math but relies on configurations, patterns, shape, texture, tones, and etc, all of which require mental acumen to carry from inspiration to execution. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-39522157083034888652014-05-22T02:05:36.987-07:002014-05-22T02:05:36.987-07:00Anonymous (in response to Bryan Townsend):
"...Anonymous (in response to Bryan Townsend):<br /><br /><i>" Esa-Pekka Salonen, who won the Grawemeyer Prize in 2012, and Arvo Part--two fine composers"<br /><br />Fine, if you like modern music but not likely to be remembered in a generation.</i><br /><br />I would bet on him not being remembered in a generation either (because that's the winning bet for 99.9% of all composers or musicians), but I'm not sure if their music is entirely what most people call "modern music" (like atonal compositions or amusical noise or whatever). According to Arvo Pärt's Wikipedia page, he started out as a usual "modernist" atonalist whatever composer, but it proved to be a creative dead end for him, and he started to compose works influenced by early music, and his compositions are usually sacral choral works. I especially enjoy Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms (and the Gardiner recording I have at home has some nice Lili Boulanger compositions, also mostly psalms), and I also sometimes listen to early music as such, so I'll probably check out Arvo Pärt as well.<br /><br />As far as I know, composers no longer create totally unlistenable Johnny Cage etc. stuff.reiner Torhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870196532441237336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49253071487393161802014-05-21T14:30:22.842-07:002014-05-21T14:30:22.842-07:00The late realist Hans Eysenck wrote a 1995 book on...The late realist Hans Eysenck wrote a 1995 book on creativity.<br />He intersected aspects of his theory of "psychoticism" as a <br />normal personality trait that at<br />high levels also generated<br />creativity. This publication took place shortly before his terminal illness. Clearly, he viewed "psychoticism" as very distinct from disordered behavior that the conventional term "psychotic" refers to. It is an approximation to his (research derived) point of view to suggest that latent psychotic<br />tendencies often impact creative accomplishment; active, disordered psychotic tendencies clearly sabotage creativity (Hippie assumptions to the contrary, notwithstanding ) Brains are helpful in seeing and maintaining the distinction. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22730574135386733402014-05-21T13:23:27.761-07:002014-05-21T13:23:27.761-07:00Pat Boyle, it isn't necessarily that blacks ar...Pat Boyle, it isn't necessarily that blacks are better at basketball per se, although many black youths are brought up playing it. Black players are given more opportunities in the NBA simply because the organization itself is inherently biased towards them, for whatever reason. If there were a different basketball league with all the same rules as the NBA, except comprised of talented white players, or whoever else, you wouldn't notice a difference. Skill has nothing to do with race.<br /><br />I'm reminded of how some people believe that only Spanish guitar players can truly bring out the emotion in a piece of music written by one of their own race, or how whites lack soul, or *insert racial stereotype*. If someone recorded five different guitarists, one of which was Spanish, playing the same piece of music and then played each recording without anyone knowing who's who, nobody would be able to single out the Spanish player just by listening. Not a chance.Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-30698028175136981922014-05-21T10:33:11.374-07:002014-05-21T10:33:11.374-07:00That's actually EMPIRE.That's actually EMPIRE. Stillichonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-57619830786818696682014-05-21T10:25:20.222-07:002014-05-21T10:25:20.222-07:00Western Civilization was born in this period. It w...Western Civilization was born in this period. It was necessary to wash away the Med and Levant infused Empire for some thing better to be born.<br /><br />In the South of France Rome never quite ended anyway. Constantinople was the Middke City anyway. Stillichonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-8509090411367301332014-05-20T22:41:51.865-07:002014-05-20T22:41:51.865-07:00I'll bet it's nearly 10% in cracker sectio...I'll bet it's nearly 10% in cracker sections of Florida. Possibly more.Davidhttp://david-passingparade3.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-35516453446481133482014-05-20T21:46:36.844-07:002014-05-20T21:46:36.844-07:00There are a number of superstar classical musician...There are a number of superstar classical musicians who are young Asians. A truly great (but older) pianist is Kun Woo Paik, a Korean. (Although his Mexico City concert, which is on YT, was bad, he is still unusually reliable and brilliant.)Davidhttp://david-passingparade3.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-64129761451084624102014-05-20T21:35:51.834-07:002014-05-20T21:35:51.834-07:00>Nobody really likes that stuff<
Black jazz...>Nobody really likes that stuff<<br /><br />Black jazz musicians play out all the time at numerous nightclubs and festivals which are well attended by blacks and whites, even in my neck of the woods. (Two fine jazz clubs are within an hour's drive of me.) Jazz may be a boutique genre when compared to Miley Cyrus, but it's caviar to a lot of generals.Davidhttp://david-passingparade3.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-47342273019232159102014-05-20T21:23:14.956-07:002014-05-20T21:23:14.956-07:00I was taught history just at a time that early &qu...<i><br />I was taught history just at a time that early "Dark Ages" was being reframed as "late antiquity" whereby continuity of Western civilization was emphasized over the previous paradigm of cultural and economic collapse.</i><br /><br />Western civilization most certainly did not survive into the Middle Ages. You misunderstand what civilization is. Civilization is centralization, the organizing of population into high concentrations called "cities".<br /><br />Western culture, of course, survived. ben tillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-86994664982957645112014-05-20T20:18:13.932-07:002014-05-20T20:18:13.932-07:00Not all geniuses are motivated by their legacies. ...Not all geniuses are motivated by their legacies. In fact, that may seldom be a motivation. Bruce Charlton's blog contends that creativity and conscientiousness are opposed personality traits. Orson Welles and Alfred Hitchcock, among other successful creatives, were both fond of the old saying, "What did posterity ever do for me?" In his creative function, a person is concerned only with what he's doing (the work) and not with who he is. Maybe dialing back reputation-anxiety will free you to find and do what you want to do?Davidhttp://david-passingparade3.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-34248328877377592522014-05-20T09:53:25.764-07:002014-05-20T09:53:25.764-07:00One of the problems with discussions of creativity...One of the problems with discussions of creativity is that it is usually undefined. There are no tests for creativity that make any sense.<br /><br />Most of the commenters here end up talking about painting and especially music. They are not the same neurologically or in the human mental property space.<br /><br />The reason that IQ is so important is that it is general. If you are good at - for example - world history you are likely to also be good at lots of other things. That's why Lawrence - a classical scholar was sent into the desert. If you can learn Greek grammar they would hire you at the bank in Victorian England.<br /><br />Paintings is part of 'g'. It requires visuo-spatial intelligence. Feynman 'saw' physics problems in this way. The Goodenough 'Draw a Man Test' sort of works as an IQ test.<br /><br />But music isn't a pert of general intelligence at all. General IQ seems to be a function of the whole cerebrum such that more brains equals smarter brains. But musical ability seems to be located only in the posterior anterior gyrus.<br /><br />Musical ability is considered a 'special ability'' - not part of IQ at all. You can verify this for yourself. Go to the violin section of any major symphony orchestra and strike up a conversation with one of the players. These people are at the top of their profession - the crème de la crème - but they are typically as dumb as a bag of rocks. <br /><br />Pat BoylePat Boylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13477950851915567863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-53137722956847901252014-05-20T09:36:28.961-07:002014-05-20T09:36:28.961-07:00This thread has degenerated into a discussion of c...This thread has degenerated into a discussion of creativity as seen in black music.<br /><br />This is a central theme in black apologetics.<br /><br />About a decade ago Derrick Bell - black law school professor associated with Obama - had a screenplay shown on HBO. Robert Guillaume of 'Soap' fame played the lead. The plot was that the space aliens had come into orbit and asked the white people of earth for all the black people. As I remember the aliens were going to pay with a cure for cancer or some such.<br /><br />This sets the Guillaume character up for some philosophical musings about the contribution of blacks to world culture. In the end he decides that there are but two things - basketball and jazz.<br /><br />Don't get mad at me. I didn't say that. That's Derrick Bell - Obama's mentor.<br /><br />It is certainly true that blacks are a whole lot better than whites at basketball. With 13% of the population they have earned 90% of the starting slots in the NBA. <br /><br />But Jazz? Who really likes jazz? Blacks certainly don't. It is a very minor musical genre. In the sixties somehow sitar music became popular proving I suppose that anything is possible. But when was the last time a real jazz number made it in the Top 40. Now that they've found Casey Kasem do you think he'll play some jazz on the air? <br /><br />The idea that jazz is high art is a modern affectation. Nobody really likes that stuff so some intellectuals figure it must be art.<br /><br />Pat BoylePat Boylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13477950851915567863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-26130517916976405062014-05-20T06:14:31.434-07:002014-05-20T06:14:31.434-07:00What an crock. Blacks didn't invent jazz. It d...What an crock. Blacks didn't <i>invent</i> jazz. It developed over a long period of time in the hands of both white and black musicians -- a clash of cultures -- until it became recognized as its own thing. No one race can take credit for its existence.<br /><br />As for who invented rock, many argue Chuck Berry did in 1955. Regardless whether or not that's true, there's no arguing that it was developed out of southern blues, which is distinctly black.<br /><br />Regardless, as other posters have noted, none of it would've been possible without the direct influence, instruments and technology of whites and Europeans. All of the melodic intervals and harmonic combinations utilized by black jazz and R&B singers are derived from western tonality and modality, brought to prominence by European composers from the 1500's upwards.Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-21826484887111857492014-05-20T03:33:25.932-07:002014-05-20T03:33:25.932-07:00Speaking of Stravinsky, and the various musical ge...Speaking of Stravinsky, and the various musical genres created by blacks, I am reminded of one of Stravinsky's most notorious quips: "Vivaldi didn't write 600 concerti. He wrote the same concerto 600 times."<br /><br />Similarly, blacks not in Africa keep reinventing more or less the same genre, over and over again. Modern Abraham, above, gets this about right.<br /><br />The differences between rap & hip-hop are about as interesting as the differences between Vivaldi's Four Seasons and his concerti for lute &/or mandolin.<br /><br />vinteuilAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02430867207058515194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-65566077981100875992014-05-20T03:32:42.517-07:002014-05-20T03:32:42.517-07:00Speaking of Stravinsky, and the various musical ge...Speaking of Stravinsky, and the various musical genres created by blacks, I am reminded of one of Stravinsky's most notorious quips: "Vivaldi didn't write 600 concerti. He wrote the same concerto 600 times."<br /><br />Similarly, blacks not in Africa keep reinventing more or less the same genre, over and over again. Modern Abraham, above, gets this about right.<br /><br />The differences between rap & hip-hop are about as interesting as the differences between Vivaldi's Four Seasons and his concerti for lute &/or mandolin.<br /><br />vinteuilAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02430867207058515194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-73794456547491860352014-05-20T03:11:23.588-07:002014-05-20T03:11:23.588-07:00As our Wagnerian friend reiner Tor (aka pure fool,...As our Wagnerian friend reiner Tor (aka pure fool, aka Parsifal) points out, to claim that blacks are more creative because they have come up with more new "genres" like jazz & rock & hip-hop is just silly. It depends on an unreflective notion of what counts as a "genre."<br /><br />Consider a genuinely & inarguably great composer: Igor Stravinsky. It would hardly be an exaggeration to say that he created six new genres every day before breakfast. Firebird, Petrushka, Rite of Spring, The Wedding, Apollo, Oedipus, Orpheus, The Rake's Progress, Agon - each work is *sui generis.*<br /><br />vinteuilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-90503693629244418052014-05-20T00:20:17.025-07:002014-05-20T00:20:17.025-07:00When John Cheever was inducted into the military i...When John Cheever was inducted into the military in the Second World War, he twice failed to score high enough on his IQ test to qualify for officer training. I'm not saying Cheever would have made a capable officer (probably he wouldn't have), but it's nevertheless an interesting example of a disparity between creativity and measured intelligence.Black Seahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347464061061628147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-79937010969291562602014-05-19T23:24:14.503-07:002014-05-19T23:24:14.503-07:00Some people just won't let this one go. Do we ...<i>Some people just won't let this one go. Do we have to spend another comment thread exploding the myth of the "dark ages"? Europe was as advanced as anywhere else in the world long before the 16th century.</i><br /><br />I was taught history just at a time that early "Dark Ages" was being reframed as "late antiquity" whereby continuity of Western civilization was emphasized over the previous paradigm of cultural and economic collapse.<br /><br />So, no, I don't subscribe to the archaic notion of "Dark Ages" of Europe plunging into stone ages. But some of these white supremacist types go too far when they make bold claims about the level of civilization during the chaotic aftermath of the fall of Rome and some centuries thereafter. To be sure, there was a great deal of civilizational loss, decline in trade, rise in autarky and the general decline of living standards (and hygiene).<br /><br />And there were considerable stretches of time during which Chinese civilization did possess superior technology over Europe. Look at ship-building, for example. The Chinese utilized watertight bulkheads in their ships hundreds of years before Europeans took to them. It was a bit of an accident of history that the European explorers and traders began to muscle in on the Indian Ocean spice trade just as the Chinese began to withdraw from it from internal reasons (until then they were the lords of the high seas in Asia). It was not because of technological inferiority or lack of skillful and daring seafarers that the Chinese withdrew from the looming competition.<br /><br />Had they not done so, the colonial history of "the Indies" and indeed the whole world might be very different today.<br /><br />The RMA of modern Europe was indeed revolutionary. Classical Mediterranean civilizations, the high culture of Medieval Europe and, of course, the Renaissance that ushered in modernity should all be celebrated. But it is foolish and contrary to history to think that Europe was always superior to Asia. Europe has been an important pole in the vast spectrum of Eurasian civilizations that have vied for supremacy since civilizations began in the river valleys. The West's dramatic rise in the last five hundred years is an almost miraculous story, but one that is not necessarily a proof of the immutable superiority of the European.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-56997241393170625832014-05-19T19:07:58.937-07:002014-05-19T19:07:58.937-07:00Sorry, Dan, the music genres you listed were mostl...Sorry, Dan, the music genres you listed were mostly started by black men. Some of it was concurrent with white guys in the UK, Germany and a couple other places, but it is fascinating how a lot of the ultrawhite club music has black roots.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-44336169093144908272014-05-19T17:28:59.158-07:002014-05-19T17:28:59.158-07:00"As much as we Westerners like to claim that ..."As much as we Westerners like to claim that our superior civilization trumped the "stultifying" East, the reality is that we were behind the East in many technological things even beyond the 16th Century."<br /><br />MANY ways, really? Name a few. Actually, name any.bleachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-22078604987881014362014-05-19T17:24:52.792-07:002014-05-19T17:24:52.792-07:00"in my home country germany at least one in t..."in my home country germany at least one in tenth of teh german women have their kids with men of westafrican ancestry."<br /><br />Oh come on<br /> bullshit. In the USA with vastly more blacks, not even close to one-tenth of white women breed with Africans. Blacks are close to the bottom of the sexual market, despite what Jewish pornographers want you to believe.bleachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-9990233501463917182014-05-19T17:22:00.560-07:002014-05-19T17:22:00.560-07:00in my home country germany at least one in tenth o...<i>in my home country germany at least one in tenth of teh german women have their kids with men of westafrican ancestry</i><br /><br />Wtf?! I doubt 10% of all German women are having mixed race babies let alone 10% just with West Africans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-58508123438112755662014-05-19T17:16:57.941-07:002014-05-19T17:16:57.941-07:00African-American creativity in music is astounding...<i>African-American creativity in music is astounding. They invented Jazz, Blues, Rock, Funk, Hip Hop. How many new genres have whites created in the last several centuries?</i><br /><br />Yet all those things rely upon white creativity to get them started.<br /><br />The technology that allows those things to exist is white, the means by which they are heard is white. Thats aside from any non-black musical input.<br /><br />Take a creative African deny him access to electric amplification, records, CDs, tapes, computers, keyboards etc etc and where is he then?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9430835.post-49035319727845008542014-05-19T16:55:53.685-07:002014-05-19T16:55:53.685-07:00Brian Wilson is probably the single most gifted po...Brian Wilson is probably the single most gifted popular musician I've ever heard. Dannoreply@blogger.com