Here's the beginning of that famous speech, following a few introductory formalities:
With that, he tapped into a load of powerful sentimental fantasies rampant in America today, many of them contradictory, but all of them self-congratulatory about how this could only happen in America! For example, Harold Meyerson claims today in the Washington Post:Tonight is a particular honor for me because - let's face it - my presence on this stage is pretty unlikely. My father was a foreign student, born and raised in a small village in Kenya. He grew up herding goats, went to school in a tin-roof shack. His father - my grandfather - was a cook, a domestic servant to the British.
But my grandfather had larger dreams for his son. Through hard work and perseverance my father got a scholarship to study in a magical place, America, that shone as a beacon of freedom and opportunity to so many who had come before.
While studying here, my father met my mother. She was born in a town on the other side of the world, in Kansas. Her father worked on oil rigs and farms through most of the Depression. The day after Pearl Harbor my grandfather signed up for duty; joined Patton's army, marched across Europe. Back home, my grandmother raised their baby and went to work on a bomber assembly line. After the war, they studied on the G.I. Bill, bought a house through FHA, and later moved west all the way to Hawaii in search of opportunity.
And they, too, had big dreams for their daughter. A common dream, born of two continents.
My parents shared not only an improbable love, they shared an abiding faith in the possibilities of this nation. They would give me an African name, Barack, or "blessed," believing that in a tolerant America your name is no barrier to success. They imagined me going to the best schools in the land, even though they weren't rich, because in a generous America you don't have to be rich to achieve your potential.
They are both passed away now. And yet, I know that, on this night, they look down on me with great pride.
I stand here today, grateful for the diversity of my heritage, aware that my parents' dreams live on in my two precious daughters. I stand here knowing that my story is part of the larger American story, that I owe a debt to all of those who came before me, and that, in no other country on earth, is my story even possible.
"Now, I mean to take nothing away from McCain's Americanness by noting that it's Obama's story that represents a triumph of specifically American identity over racial and religious identity. It was the lure of America, the shining city on a hill, that brought his black Kenyan father here, where he met Obama's white Kansan mother. It is because America is uniquely the land of immigrants..."
Where to begin? First, Barack Obama Sr. was not an immigrant and didn't conceive of himself as one -- he was a foreign student, who acquired a bachelor's and master's degree in the U.S. in order to immediately return to Kenya and grab for the brass ring of political power as a Big Man.
There was nothing uniquely American about providing scholarships to Kenyans. Barack Obama Jr.'s kinsman and sometimes political ally, Raila Odinga, Luo warlord and Kenya's new Prime Minister, got his degree in communist East Germany at about the same time.
And, for the love of God, Obama Jr. wrote a 442 page book about his pursuit of a racial identity (black); there's not a word about him pursuing a non-racial "specifically American identity." The subtitle of his autobiography is "A Story of Race and Inheritance," and he ain't kidding about that.
But, let's leave aside Meyerson's irrelevant obsession with romanticizing immigration and examine the warm romantic glow that surrounds this and so many other accounts of Obama's parents' relationship. When examined carefully, their affair turns out to be a sordid one, with disastrous long-term consequences. That's hardly uncommon, but what is uncommon is successfully positioning your parents' squalid, catastrophic relationship as a major reason for electing you President!
Let me ask a question that I haven't seen asked before:
How old was Ann Dunham when Barack Obama Sr., an already married 24-year-old, impregnated her?Barack Obama Jr. tells us that he weighed eight pounds, two ounces when he was born on August 4, 1961 (p. 22 of Dreams from My Father), so we can assume he went close to full term, or nine months.
His parents' bigamous marriage is said to have taken place six months before his birth on 2/2/1961, when she'd be about starting to show.
Nine months before Obama's birth would be early November 1960, about three to four weeks before Ann Dunham's 18th birthday on November 29, 1960.
So, Barack Sr., a married man of about 24 (he was born in 1936), almost certainly impregnated a 17-year-old girl.
Recall how the big scandal discovered in the raid on the Fundamentalist Mormon town in Texas was all the girls ages 13-17 who were pregnant by polygamous older men? So, the much admired All-American love of Obama's parents turns out to be basically the same as the FLDS scandal -- underage pregnant girl, older man, and polygamy -- just done freelance-style.
Barack Sr. then bigamously married Ann, then soon abandoned her and her tiny son because the scholarship offer from the New School of Social Research that would have paid for the whole family to move to New York City wasn't as prestigious as the scholarship offer to Harvard that paid just his own living expenses.
The candidate's father then married another American woman bigamously, took her back to Kenya, but carried on polygamously with his original Kenyan wife, until wife #3 divorced him. There was another kid by a fourth woman. Somewhere along the line he killed a man in a drunk driving incident, then got himself killed in another.
Meanwhile, the candidate's mother married an Indonesian guy who tried to bring home the bacon for her and another man's kid, but she got tired of the poor sap, had a baby with him anyway, then abandoned him, but then lived most of the rest of her life in Indonesia ...
It's the American Dream!
| Ann Dunham Dates | Date | Her Age | Barack Sr. Age |
| Born | 11/29/1942 | | 1936 |
| Conceived Barack Jr. (approx) | 11/3/1960 | 17.93 | 24 |
| Married | 2/2/1961 | 18.18 | |
| Gave birth | 8/4/1961 | 18.68 | |
| Barack Jr.'s birthweight | 8.125 |
Among the many moronic hypocrisies of our laughable non-society, the double standard applied to blacks and whites when it comes to sexual relations takes the cake.
ReplyDeleteWhole doorstops could be written about the subject - without, I suspect, the writers ever coming to more than an unsatisfactory, pulling-out-their-hair end.
In the Loving case which effectively legalized miscegenation, the A-A girl was 11 and the white guy was 17 when they starting "spending time together," as the NYT puts it.
In the case of Barry's mom, she was impregnated at 17.
Our culture celebrates these two. But, what is its attitude toward any underage relationship between two white people?
Part of the "outrage" in the FLDS case is that incestuous relationships are alleged to have occurred. But the other, almost equally strong part is the allegation that many of the relationships involved underage girls.
You know, like 11 or 17 years old.
Are whites held to "higher" (different) standards than blacks in matters of sexual morality?
Does the state show a consistent pattern of selective outrage, dependent upon its perceived political needs at a given time? For instance, if the federal judiciary considered it socially advantageous to legalize miscegenation, would judges overlook the moral hazard of underage sex in a given case - in order to uphold publicly the alleged probity, desirability, and romanticism of mixed-race couples? Would a similarly motivated media do the same?
If the government were hostile to a certain outgroup, might the renegades be made to feel the brimstone belching from the lips of its armed Savonarolas, and the blubbering shrieks of nightly news numbed soccer moms - partly for the very thing at which it winks in an ingroup?
Does a bear- well, let's leave off here.
The age of consent is 16 (15 in some states) was it higher then?
ReplyDelete"Our culture celebrates these two. But, what is its attitude toward any underage relationship between two white people?"
ReplyDeleteOh, "I don't know, I think those ostracized, publicly belitteled white-white relationships are generally called "going steady"
White American 12 year olds "going steady" do not have insertive intercourse with each other. At least, they didn't used to.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with the Obama coalition is that it is an alliance of blacks and rich whites who don't know blacks at all but hope giving them money will make them white. That works in an affluent society with money to spend (or waste) finding the prodigious little astronaut unjustly languishing in the hood.
When a nation runs out of its surplus, it needs to direct resources to causes that actually produce more than they consume.
What working class whites and blacks need to think about when casting their votes is, which candidate's policies will deliver attainable jobs that pay the bills in this country. If nobody fits the bill, then pressure like hell to make one. It's not in any person's (or any race's) interest to throw our economy in the garbage on unwinnable wars or creating more failing bureaucracies. (Scratch that - at least wars make jobs. We could probably do with some new major public works to fix and grow our aging 1950's infrastructure).
Are you counting using months or weeks?
ReplyDeleteTypical human gestation is 38 +/- 2 weeks post conception.
There's also a slight racial difference in gestation period, with 51% of blacks being born at week 39, vs, 33% for whites. Source doesn't say if those are weeks from conception or LMP.
Split the differences and guess Barack was conceived 39 wks prior to his birth: Friday Nov 4 or Sat Nov 5.
Barack Senior had 8 kids by 4 different women if I remember correctly.
ReplyDeletealso, You have mentioned that Barack is "Nilotic" - however the autobiography points out the Barack's tribe was Nilotic with Bantu admixture. So there is a *small* connection to West Africa.
The age of consent in HI was raised from 14 yrs to 16 yrs in 2001. Before 2001, the HI law had the nation's lowest age of consent law to avoid criminalizing teenage sex.
ReplyDeleteSomeone who is 14 may consent to sex in Hawaii with an individual who is no more than 19.
In the likely event that the age of consent laws were no more lax in 1960 as they were in 2006, it appears that Obama Sr. criminally conceived Obama by statutory rape being 24 yrs old at the time. This only reinforces the picture of Obama Sr. as a sleeze bag of the first order: a charming and gifted man who wasted his potential as a sperm daddy abandoning numerous polygamous wives/children, a violent alcoholic who committed manslaughter and also eventually drunk himself to death behind the wheel, a frustrated African big man failure.
Obama is not responsible for his sleezy father or flaky mother. However, for Obama to repeatedly propagandize his parents very brief and tawdry germ cell exchange as some sort of transcendent racial love story of the globalized world makes him a bald faced liar.
If they got married. I still have seen no good primary evidence that Barack Sr. and Stanley Ann ever officially married. It is far more likely to have been a shack up later called a 'marriage' by virtue of a sham divorce.
ReplyDeleteTime's "On Feb. 2, 1961, several months after they met, Obama's parents got married in Maui, according to divorce records" (emphasis mine) just doesn't cut it. Divorce filing papers are typically full of lies on both sides--where are the original marriage records located?
Grandpa Dunham to fellow veteran at the VFW hall, ca. 1970: "Aren't you glad we won WWII?".
ReplyDeletelol.
Karl Malone, the retired NBA all-star, has a son that was drafted by the Buffalo Bills as an Off Tackle. Initially, Malone fought the paternity suit and eventually reached a lump-sum payment for the child support. Malone did not have any relationship with the boy.
ReplyDeleteHere's the kicker, the mother of the baby WAS 13 at the time of birth. Karl Malone was 19 or 20.
This occurred in La. Link is below.
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-32-167/Karl-Malone--Demetrius-Bell--and-Mother-s-Day.html
I think it's fascinating/sad that the guy hoodwinked an entire political party w/ a single speech back in 2004.
ReplyDelete(ie. the age of his mom is less interesting to me than is the comparison of his 2004 speech w/ the reality of his family history)
Well, Steve, you are starting to wean me from my Obama infatuation. Don't know what I am going to do.
ReplyDeleteObama is so repugnant in every way. I pity how far America has fallen.
ReplyDeleteAnon said - "This only reinforces the picture of Obama Sr. as a sleeze bag of the first order: a charming and gifted man who wasted his potential"
ReplyDeleteAh, but did he waste it? Maybe his potential was as a sleaze bag, alcoholic waster. In which case he fulfilled it perfectly.
Let's not forget "underage" is only a social construct. If a female can be impregnated then she isn't underage as far as Mother Nature is concerned.
ReplyDeleteYou don't have to know how to read or write
When you're out with a feller in the pale moonlight
You don't have to look in a book to find
What he thinks of the moon and what is on his mind
That comes natur'lly (that comes natur'lly)
(with apologies)
To Steve Sailer:
ReplyDeleteThe comments bring up two questions:
(1) Were Obama's parents married?
(2) Did Obama Sr. commit statutory rape?
Some guys get their Jones on by imagining/doing underage girls. I guess Obama has their vote.
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty disappointing coming from you, Steve. Too much time identifying with the idiotic moral twitch-switches of mainstream conservatives. Maybe you're going propagandistic and trying to rile up the zoo, but I don't have time for lies. Many societies marry fertile girls at 13 or 14, because they're fertile, to men of various ages. You sound like Bill O'Reilly, trying to nail some pitiful subconscious moral reflex, to prove your point. You should be ashamed of yourself. If your wife's old or whatever, whatever, that doesn't give you the right to morally judge the mess of sex relations in human societies. There's no proper or moral answer or standard. It's a mess. Life is a mess.
ReplyDelete"His father - my grandfather - was a cook, a domestic servant to the British."
ReplyDeleteHey, Obama, my great-grandfather was a domestic servant to the British too. He was an englishman, living in England, tending the garden at some toff's estate. The english had lots of domestic servants in their own country.
Am I special too? Am I now emblematic of the American Dream? Or am I just a TWP (typical white person)?
The presumption of this guy is amazing. Biography is neither talent nor qualification.
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteMany societies marry fertile girls at 13 or 14, because they're fertile, to men of various ages."
Not OUR society. Not in 1960, and not now. What you call "moral twitchiness" is what I call morality. It's necessary for the preservation of society.
David: Among the many moronic hypocrisies of our laughable non-society, the double standard applied to blacks and whites when it comes to sexual relations takes the cake.
ReplyDeleteBack during the FLDS threads here at iSteve, I tried to submit a comment about how the attack on the FLDS is basically an attack on Caucasian fertility - that there isn't a dime's worth of difference between what the FLDS in their compounds are doing with their teenaged wives, and what the blacks & hispanics in the ghettos & barrios are doing with their teenaged baby mommas.
But either the comment got eaten by the blogger.com back end [which has got to be one of the suckiest pieces of software that I try to deal with on a regular basis], or else Steve Sailer censored the comment as being too inflammatory for his website.
Be that as it may, the bottom line is that the laws against statutory rape are enforced against white men, but ignored when it comes to black & hispanic men, and, in the meantime, the white race just keeps dwindling away to nothing.
"I think it's fascinating/sad that the guy hoodwinked an entire political party w/ a single speech back in 2004."
ReplyDeleteNever underestimate the power of a great convention speech. If he had wanted to, Mario Cuomo could have ridden his corker at the 1984 Democratic National Convention to the Democratic nomination in 1988 or 1992.
- Fred
Hmm, was there a wedding? Now that's an interesting question.
ReplyDeleteI could have sworn I'd seen a wedding photo-- oh, here it is... http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/07/2004333750.jpg
But 10 seconds later, I found a picture (clearly taken at the same time) of Barack Sr. posing with adolescent Barry, Christmas 1971 if I had to guess.
http://thisrecording.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/28585925.jpg
There are no other pictures that I could find of Stanley Ann and Barack Sr. posing together (though on second thought, if she looked too much like a child bride, the campaign would wisely hold those photos back).
Nevertheless, the only facts we have is what Stanley Ann told Barry since he was too young to recall what happened when his dad split (or perhaps was kicked out?). The old man's not around to tell his side of the story, then or now.
I'm suspicious of whatever Stanley Ann says if only because she treated her second husband Lolo Soetero like crap (as presidential stepdads go, a far better human being than, say, Roger Clinton Sr.). Here's a shot of Lolo, poor bastard. http://www.kansasprairie.net/kansasprairieblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/copy-of-28585926.jpg
The internet is amazing, you can find the age of consent in Hawaii by googling 10 minutes.
ReplyDeletehttp://hawaii.gov/ag/main/publications/reports/legislative_reports/regular_sess_03/rpt_age_of_consent_tf.pdf
“Between 1925 and 1973 the Territory, and later the State, of Hawaii prohibited males from having sexual contact with a girl under 12 or sexual intercourse with a girl under 16.”
Obama Sr would have been of the hook on this one.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1073649
In 1950 the legal age of marriage without parental consent was 20 for women, (16 with consent), and had by 1980 been raised to 18. Unclear when this changed, but I didn’t search further on this one; their marriage wasn’t legal anyway on the count of the bigamy.
Here is an article from the Chicago Tribune 27/3
http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-0703270151mar27,0,14968,full.story
Obama's mom: Not just a girl from Kansas, Strong personalities shaped a future senator
“ interviews with their friends from Kansas, now in their mid-to-late 80s, and interviews with their daughter's former classmates and teachers, now in their mid-60s or older, paint a vivid portrait of Barack Obama's mother as a self-assured, iconoclastic young teen seemingly hell-bent to resist Eisenhower-era conformity.
Boyish-looking, Stanley Ann was prone to rolling her eyes when she heard something she didn't agree with. She didn't like her nose, she worried about her weight, she complained about her parents -- especially her domineering father. Her sarcasm could be withering and, while she enjoyed arguing, she did not like to draw attention to herself. The bite of her wit was leavened by a good sense of humor.
While her girlfriends, including Box, regularly baby-sat, Stanley Ann showed no interest. "She felt she didn't need to date or marry or have children," Box recalled. "It wasn't a put-down, it wasn't hurtful. That's just who she was."
The non-conformist feminist who didn’t feel the need to marry or have children got knocked up at 17?
Anonymous:
Some societies do let children get married; Islam has the age of consent at 9. I even agree with you that sexual activity between sexually mature young adults isn’t necessarily a problem, the age of consent is 15 in Sweden where I was raised, and it was never a social problem (there is a huge differences between some well adjusted 16 year olds dating, and old men taking advantage of young girls, but that’s another matter).
The issue is what the society Barack Obama is trying to get elected feels different about what a responsible age for having children may be. This wouldn’t be as big as an issue if Barack Obamas parents idiotic and irresponsible behavior wasn’t a core pillar of his presidential campaign.
One thing about O'Reilly:
It’s easy to dismiss people that seem to be emotionally advocating norms, tradition for the sake of tradition “Its Just Wrong!”. But you are fooling yourself if you only look at the proximate motivation for O'Reilly and the like.
Many times the traditions they are defending have strong intellectual foundations, even if O'Reilly himself may or may not be able to articulate it. Teen pregnancies are costly for both society and the individual, and the people most likely to handle also tend to be those least capable of sound judgment. In that case norms work better than discretion. Hardwiring traditional sexual norms into their heads is more efficient than convincing underclass teens to maximize their future job market outcome.
Barak Obama is the (innocent) fruit of the relationship of 17 years old White American girl and an African student. He has made a political carreer working in Chicago's Black neighborhoods, and he is accepted as a bona fide American Black, which he is not. This situation has demanded from him to confuse the issue of his ethnic identity, and he has become very good at dissimulating it. He is also able to assume the ideological coloration of their opponents and convince them that he is one of them.
ReplyDeleteSteve,
ReplyDeleteSo good- another 50$ goes into your till through Amazon- because PayPal threw me out due to some online poker incidents I don't want to go into right now. He knocked up a 17 year old! Now that's a story that the MSM won't touch with a 9 foot pole...even Limbaugh won't touch it or NRO- bottom line- they are complete pussies. You are The Brave One...In fact, they should have gotten you to star in that movie instead of Jodie Foster.....although she was good in Panic Room....where can I read your reviews of both of those movies? I feel like I know Obama more than my brothers after reading you. I want to sell bumperstickers that read Obama/Wright 08....would that do well? I know it's not groundbreaking but it's funny nonetheless.
Ps
ReplyDelete"Stanley Ann was prone to rolling her eyes when she heard something she didn't agree with. She didn't like her nose, she worried about her weight, she complained about her parents"
I am not an expert on raising teenage girls or anything, but doesn't this describe - like - all of them? Couldn't the Chicago Tribute at least have been a little creative, rather than lifting up brat behavior as somehow extraordinary?
wow- that Karl Malone link was revealing- still hard to criticize the man....too good on the pick and roll...in the hay- how about it????
ReplyDelete"Harold Meyerson claims today in the Washington Post:"
ReplyDeleteIt is crucial that persons such as Harold Meyerson frame the debate on the issues so that the masses can gain a nuanced understanding.
You will find many fellow travelers of Harold Meyerson installed in every news outlet in the country. They are deliberately positioned in order to control the debate. They generate acceptable interpretations of events for consumption by the masses.
In other words, this cohesive group of persons is instructing the masses on exactly how and what to think about the past, present and future.
Also, Obama's description of his grandfather as "a cook, a domestic servant for the British," while technically true, is a little tendentious.
ReplyDeleteHussein, his grandfather, did start out as a cook and domestic servant. But Chapter 19 of "Dreams from My Father" makes it clear that by the time Barack Sr. went to study in the United States Hussein was a fairly prosperous (relative to Kenya) farmer. For example, on page 420 of the paperback edition, Hussein's youngest wife tells Barack Jr. that he was "a well-off man" and talks about "the family's wealth".
Hussein is clearly a very impressive guy, someone who made a tremendous success of himself from extremely humble beginnings through hard work, willpower and behaving responsibly. (FWIW, I think the secret to understanding "Dreams" is that its the story of Barack Jr. realizing that his grandfather, rather than his father, is the man he needs to emulate if he wants to make something of his life.) But the idea of Hussein as an oppressed servant pinching pennies to provide his son with an opportunity to have a better life is silly: Hussein was a success, whose dreams for his son were that he would be a success as well.
iSteve:
ReplyDeleteIf you had come out with this a week ago you might have helped BHO with the West Virginny vote. A man at 24 is likely to be a newly-minted grandfather there ... or an uncle ... or both!
I agree on Nature here. Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed. That is what nature says, at least. The age of bleeding does vary by race and environment, too.
ReplyDeleteThe high age of consent in Western societies has little to do with traditional morality and everything to do with bourgeois/middle class economic ambitions. Teenagers are expected to stay in school, nowadays through their 20's if they want to be "be something of worth." (By the way, younger mothers are healthier and so are their babies, so nature *favors* younger births in that sense.)
Pregnancy aborts that whole process of higher education. Is this system of higher education unnatural? Probably so, and it probably has a lot to do with low birth rates in the West. The process also creates useless intergenerational conflict by forcing energetic teenagers who are biologically ready to go out into the world to instead sit in classes and obey mommy and daddy's rules.
Where many "conservatives" go wrong is in confusing bourgeois morality with traditional morality. In fact, the bourgeous life is amoral in traditional terms for many reasons (neglect of family, economic dependence on speculation/usury, abandonment of religion, unbalanced pursuit of wealth without responsibility, etc).
Back to the whole Obama issue: young motherhood is not a *traditional* moral issue in most religious systems. The offense against traditional morality is not the age of the mother, but whether the father supports the child. Older men marrying younger women is also not an offense against traditional morality, as long as the man is fit and healthy enough to fulfill his duties as a husband. The idea that older/younger couplings are unnatural comes from the bourgeois ideal of equality. Which is nonsense: men and women are not equal in any sense, whether they are the same age or different ages. A young pretty woman who gets banged up and mistreated or abandoned by some asinine boy her own age (women mature much earlier than men) is wasted and ruined. Our society is full of women like this.
Sorry to double comment. But to boil down what I was saying: our society's institution of "teenagehood."
ReplyDeleteTeenagehood: a time when young people should follow parents' rules, go to school, engage in gross consumerism, and abstain from reproducing. (Replacement for older institution of young adulthood, when people would ordinarily begin economic and reproductive lives).
Our American/Western idea of teenagehood has nothing to do with traditional morality or nature and everything to do with greed. It is designed to push little junior through school to make money. That's the American goal of life, right? Make lots of green stuff, or you are considered worthless. Bottom line, there it is.
Does this artificial institution of teenagehood create social strain, reduce fertility, waste resources on people not suited for higher education? Absolutely.
Many societies marry fertile girls at 13 or 14, because they're fertile, to men of various ages."
ReplyDeleteYeah, nature can be a bitch sometimes--the idea that it always acts in our best interests is patent often had disastrous results, if you check child and maternal mortality in places where this went on, or where it still goes on. Adolescents do not make good mothers as a rule, they are still ego centered at this age. The psychological, not to mention physical, changes that occur around 21 is quite profound and makes a big difference in how most mothers would relate to a child.
They would give me an African name, Barack, or "blessed," believing that in a tolerant America your name is no barrier to success.
ReplyDeleteAnother lie. The name" Barack" is only African by way of Kenia, since it's Arabic in origin.
The original form is "Barakah" (likewise, "blesing").
http://www.ummah.net/family/masc.html
One of the reasons I never understood the brouhaha behind his middle name "Hussein" was that "Barack" was so obviously Arabic and Muslim to me.
Definitely he should have settled for Barry, or for the Chistian and Latin equivalent of "Blessed": Benedict ("benedictus") or even "Bennet".
David said...
ReplyDelete“In the Loving case which effectively legalized miscegenation, the A-A girl was 11 and the white guy was 17 when they starting ‘spending time together,’ as the NYT puts it.”
“Our culture celebrates these two. But, what is its attitude toward any underage relationship between two white people?..... In the case of Barry's mom, she was impregnated at 17.”
Does our culture celebrate Obama’s mother (for having been impregnated at 17)? I don’t think so.
In the case of Loving, “spending time together” may mean nothing more than courting without sexual intercourse. If memory serves, Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old first or second cousin back in the 50s. That created quite a stir in some quarters, which baffled Lewis. Being from Louisiana, marrying a cousin or marrying very young females probably wasn’t all that uncommon back in those days. The same can be said for much of the South and perhaps parts of the Midwest at that time too. Therefore, the age at which the female half of the Loving couple began spending time with her future husband was not out of the ordinary in Virginia at that time.
What was problematic was the interracial nature of their relationship, its openness, and its eventual blossoming into a marriage, which was illegal. (Personally, I doubt the Loving case would have been successful if the male had been black and the female white.)
Further, many white men in the South (Strom Thurmond being one of a few) did have clandestine black paramours with whom they had children. This was acceptable at that time because these relationships weren’t substantive or headed towards actual marriage.
Maybe everyone here is being a little hard on Obama Sr.
ReplyDeleteThere seems to be no evidence there ever was marriage. There is official record or certificate for the February 2nd, 1961 marriage which strongly suggests there was no marriage. There are no photos and not even supporters seem to have ever claimed to have been at any ceremony, celebration or been a legal witness.
Given these facts, a more likely story is that the 24yr old Obama Sr. was horny alpha male looking for a little action during his studies abroad. He just used the young, somewhat attractive-at-the-time and probably very willing Stanley Ann for sex.
Obama Sr. came from rising family and tight clan. His personal fortunes seemed unlimited back in Kenya as their first student sent to study in Hawaii and later to be offered a slot at Harvard. His family was opposed to marrying any white woman and a naïve western wife like Stanley with confused yet outspoken leftist views on feminism/politics/etc. would been a serious political liability in the tribal politics of post colonial Kenya.
This explains why Obama Sr. would never likely marry Stanley Ann and why he felt no hesitation in abandoning her or Obama for wherever his education or career opportunities took him. In all likelihood, he was probably upset at worst or indifferent at best that Stanley Ann got pregnant with Obama. This is probably why he left them both without looking back – no letters, phone calls or visits except for one brief stop to see a 10yr old Obama probably out of curiosity. Obama Sr. clearly felt no connection, obligation or relation to the boy.
As is usually the storyline for millions of single teen mothers over the years, the native 17yr old Stanley Ann probably read into Obama Sr's smooth talk and physical sex various feelings and love that the guy simply didn't have for her. He just wasn't that into Ann (except for the free sex).
The twist in the story is that most abandoned teen mothers tend to eventually wise up, realize they were played by the (often older) guy and grow angry. Being an extreme idealistic, 3rd world-firster and probably sincerely infatuated with Obama Sr., Stanley Ann couldn't accept the obvious pedestrian truth that she'd been used and tossed aside by a man – especially by a Black man which fed the all the negative stereotypes that her upbringing, life and reality were purposely constructed to deny.
Instead, Stanley had to invent an elaborate story for herself and her son about how Obama Sr. was a great man destined to do great things even if it meant sacrificing his undying true love for her and their son. It’s pathetic to see the photo of the 10yr old Obama clinging onto his biological “father’s” arm in this photo. For his part, I suspect Obama still somewhat buys into his mother’s fairy tale idolization of Obama Sr even though he knows these cold facts and consciously lies about their relationship for political gain.
Some mothers would file divorce papers even if not married to spare their innocent child the psychological tax of knowing they are “bastards” and provide an alibi to explain why “dad” disappeared. For Stanley, it was even more important to preserve her image of 3rd world men and never have to face the realities that challenged her ideology.
I suspect this is the true reason why Obama’s grandmother refuses to speak to anyone about anything. She seems the only semi-realistic, responsible and high functioning member in Obama’s family. As such, she probably both knows the sad sordid reality of Obama’s parents and childhood but lacks the blinding ideology of Stanley and Barack that let’s her convincingly lie about it.
As Steve has pointed out (gazillion times, but it bears repeating because it's important) rich white yuppies can afford to indulge in all sorts of things like drugs or underage sex and teen pregnancies. Money can make problems go away.
ReplyDeleteHowever, working class people are in much tougher spots when things like teen pregnancies give rise to say ... 70% illegitimacy rate among Blacks (90% in the urban core). You get no parental involvement whatsoever from fathers, who spread their seed (like Obama Sr) and then take off.
O'Reilly may be a blowhard, but he's right to insist on standard sexual behavior because that is the foundation of the West's comparative advantage: restricting sexuality so that most ordinary men have an opportunity to form families (no Big Man polygamy ala FLDS or Obama Sr.).
That in turn leads to lack of genetic bottleneck (Big Men are not the only ones impregnating women), more cooperative behaviors inherited, high levels of average fatherly investment in children, incentive to become moderately successful (only "average" income is needed to mate/reproduce unlike Big Man societies). This leads to stability, rule of law, higher levels of cooperation.
China, South Korea, and Japan's post 1945 emergence onto the world scene as economic powers are based on these principals.
I would not want to live in a nation run by Karl Malones and Obama Srs.
Here is a disturbing link:
ReplyDeletehttp://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/04/shocking-new-obama-audio-posted-online.html
How am I going to get over this? Will we see it in the fall?
I am depressed.
Another question for Steve Sailer:
ReplyDeleteWhy did Obama's parents divorce?
Is it because Obama's father left for Harvard, abandoning them?
Or did Obama's mother find out about his first wife?
Now that I think about it, wasn't James Watson 39 when he married a 19 year old?
ReplyDeleteAlso: as far as these "American Dream Love Stories" go, are you referring the 50% of American marriages that end in divorce? Camille Paglia (citing the research of others) theorized that the cause of this was the extremely recent stigma against marriages btw younger women and significantly older men.
She might be wrong, but I don't think the usual conservative scapegoats like porn (which ALL men look at) or the welfare state (which ALL americans benefit from) are gonna cut it.
"O'Reilly may be a blowhard, but he's right to insist on standard sexual behavior..."
ReplyDeleteDoes he?
http://www.salon.com/news/
2004/10/13/o_reilly/
"I would not want to live in a nation run by Karl Malones and Obama Srs."
What about a world run by Thomas Jeffersons and Strom Thurmonds and Larry Birds?
http://specials.tribstar.com/bird/
corrie.htm
"Boyish-looking, Stanley Ann was prone to rolling her eyes when she heard something she didn't agree with"
ReplyDeleteThats pretty much the liberal/left/feminist debating strategy right there!
In 2005 on the BBC's Question Time panel, Peter Hitchens was making a point and Jane Fonda responded by banging her head on the desk in front of her in a theatrical manner. And there may have been eye-rolling too...
Can't remember what they were talking about (well talking in his case, head banging in hers) but as far as I was concerned he had won right there. From that moment I found I couldn't give her a shred of respect for anything she has ever said.
Poor Richard -- while I agree that adolescent consumerism is a waste, delayed marriage, and indeed delayed gratification, education, rule of law, getting and staying married at a mature age, etc. those "bourgeois values" are the key to European success.
ReplyDeleteWhen everyone else, including China, was pursuing "Big Man" policies, the bourgeois institutions of marriage, and delayed marriage, nuclear families, and so on created the bedrock of Western competitive advantage, particularly advancing technology, as well as the rule-of-law competitive marketplace.
I for one (and I suspect Steve is with me on this for personal reasons) would rather have the bourgeois system of science and technology, particularly medical technology, even with mindless consumerist materialism, than the fake-mystical shamanistic societies of Big Men. Steve is thankfully alive today because of that "bourgeois" system, as are several of my family members.
Yes declining fertility is a problem. Yes the intergenerational conflict you describe (and the reason for it) is a problem. I suspect nearly everyone would rather have those problems than say, the problems of Ivory Coast (people hacking arms/legs off in an orgy of violence). Or General Butt Naked.
There's also a slight racial difference in gestation period, with 51% of blacks being born at week 39, vs, 33% for whites. Source doesn't say if those are weeks from conception or LMP.
ReplyDeleteThat would be the LMP time (dated from the end of the last period)
One of the reasons I never understood the brouhaha behind his middle name "Hussein" was that "Barack" was so obviously Arabic and Muslim to me.
If not for Iraq, the Hussein thing wouldn't have been nearly as played up. It's like asking why, say, someone named "Faisal bin Laden Smith" would have his middle name talked about all the time to the exclusion of his first name.
Something similar to this post happened on LOST tonight.
ReplyDeleteIn a sense, the bourgeois nuclear family works because of job stability for young men. In in the older traditional system, you had somewhat older men and somewhat younger women because they men needed to establish themselves in the world before they could pay the dowry.
ReplyDeleteIn the West, young doctors, lawyers, etc are a decent economic bet for a young mother absent any major character flaws. And if he divorces her, at least she gets her half in the courts. That kind of relationship requires a strong stable civil society economy. No wonder the prosperous 50's were the heydey of nuclear families.
Ultimately, the psychological relation to marriage, sex, and reproduction gets very skewed in this professional class segment of the West. Children are no longer considered a joy, and are more like an "investment."
Late teenage pregnancy works because grandma raises the child. Most young mothers, including young mothers in their 20's and 30's, can be pretty hopelessly selfish. The worst are the "smart career women" who have squelched any feminine/maternal instinct they had. Grandma already has the skill and lots of experience raising kids. But good Western people lock grandma away in a home somewhere and see her once a year.
This really comes down to gender roles. Since we are talking about Biblical morality: the Bible and Jewish folklore has a lot to say about gender roles. Eve versus Lilith. Who is Lilith? She is the woman who says she is Adam's equal and will only ride atop him. She is considered a demon and a mother of demons, depicted as spiritually/maternally barren. It looks to me that our society is filled with Liliths. That is fundamentally why fertility rates are down.
It's obvious that Barack was conceived in hope - his mom succumbed to his dad's advances the day she saw Kennedy elected. (A bit like those 80s coming-of-age movies where they lose their cherries after seeing Kennedy assassinated.)
ReplyDeleteHe's probably wise not to boast about it in his speeches, though.
Many societies marry fertile girls at 13 or 14, because they're fertile, to men of various ages."
ReplyDeleteNot OUR society. Not in 1960, and not now. What you call "moral twitchiness" is what I call morality. It's necessary for the preservation of society.
Age of consent has been trending up, not down, over the years. Jerry Lee Lewis legally married his 13-year-old second cousin in Mississippi back in the 1950s. In Utah a 14-year-old could legally marry (with parental consent) until they changed the law about a decade ago. The new age is still just 16.
The Utah and Mississippi laws were not aberrations created by backwards cultures. They were pretty much standard all over the Western world until recently.
Ages have been trending upwards because lifespans have been increasing and because our more complex world require more emotional maturity and education in order to survive.
John Derbyshire got in a bit of trouble a few years back for arguing that a woman's years of prime beauty were between 15-25. Given that most models are discovered around the age of 15 I'm not quite sure why this was so controversial, but it was.
But let's put it another way: if the human race had always insisted on marrying/sexual relations at the age of 18, it would have gone extinct.
______________________________
As for the age of Obama's mother when she was impregnated? Get over it, Steve! You're talking about the most important birth in 2000 years. Not since the power of the Highest overcame a betrothed Hebrew woman in a minor province of the Roman Empire some 2,000 years ago has an event of such magnitude occurred. It is an event worthy of its own name: perhaps the Ejaculate Conception?
I mean, really, how many other presidential candidates mothers have been given cover stories on major newsmagazines?
As one historian wrote of the event: "His mother is a pioneer, a woman who’s interest in World affairs and the plight of the common working class is historical. She is a mother to all of us! It is rumored that when Obama was born, Eagles flew over the house and circled eight times and flowers began to bloom."
I cannot express it more profoundly.
his mom succumbed to his dad's advances the day she saw Kennedy elected.
ReplyDeleteEwwwwww.
Bill Clinton gave us video of him shaking hands with Kennedy. Let's hope we never get video of Obama's "Kennedy moment."
Hail Stanley, full of the other race.
ReplyDeleteThe Hope is with Thee.
Blessed art Thou among women.
And blessed is the fruit of thy
womb, Barack.
Holy Stanley
Mother of Change
Pray for us racists now,
And at the hour of our imprisonment by the Thought Police.
Derbyshire got in trouble (though he shouldn't have) for saying it was 15-20. The guys at Gene Expression defended him but added that the highest period of fertility is 15-24. After reading this, he granted their point.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure why this is controversial. Provided we're not talking about pre-pubescents, I think most rational people would argue that a 15-20 year old choosing a sex partner requires less maturity than marriage, taking out a mortgage, etc. Though I suppose one could argue that sex leads to pregancy, marriage - however, whose fault is that?
Hint: its not the evil liberal educators trying to hand out condoms.
Did Barack Sr. commit statutory rape against Stanley Ann Dunham? To settle the debate once and for all: http://starbulletin.com/2000/08/25/news/story3.html
ReplyDeleteHawaii's legal age of consent was 14 in August 2000. It may have changed since. It was probably the same in 1960 - I can't imagine a bunch of politicians lowering it to that age, unless they really got caught up in the 60s.
I think most rational people would argue that a 15-20 year old choosing a sex partner requires less maturity than marriage, taking out a mortgage, etc. Though I suppose one could argue that sex leads to pregancy, marriage - however, whose fault is that? Hint: its not the evil liberal educators trying to hand out condoms.
ReplyDeleteUtah has one of the lowest teen birthrates in the country, the highest white birthrate, and no liberal educators handing out condoms.
Whether the rest of the nation wants to adopt Utah's religious fiction in order to obtain same I'll leave for others. For me preferably not, if it's a matter of civilizational life-or-death, I guess I'll buy. (Though can we at least get them to allow booze?)
The argument that discouraging 15 yo's from breeding is part of an attack on white birthrates is ludicrous. If you're trying to increase birthrates you want women to start young, but not that young. Very late teens, early 20s has been shown to be ideal. Young women aren't just more fertile at that age - they also have the energy to chase kids around, the energy they're currently burning up at those late-night college parties.
The real reason his birth certificate won't be released until after the election is that he would be disqualified due to the fact that his mother needed to have waited 3 more years for him to have automatic U.S. citizenship. Please read onc.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that Barack Obama is not qualified to be president after all for the following reason:
Barack Obama is not legally a U.S. natural-born citizen according to the law on the books at the time of his birth,
which falls between December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986 . Presidential office requires a natural-born
citizen if the child was not born to two U.S. citizen parents, which of course is what exempts
John McCain though he was born in the Panama Canal.
US Law very clearly stipulates:
If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided
in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.
Barack Obamafs father was not a U.S. citizen and Obama's mother was only 18 when Obama was born,
which means though she had been a U.S. citizen for 10 years,
(or citizen perhaps because of Hawaii being a territory) the mother fails the test for
being so for at least 5 years **prior to** Barack Obama's birth, but *after* age 16. It doesn't matter *after* . In essence, she was not old enough to qualify her son for automatic U.S. citizenship.
At most, there were only 2 years elapsed
since his mother turned 16 at the time of Barack Obama's birth when she was 18 in Hawaii.
His mother would have needed to have been 16+5= 21 years old, at the time of Barack Obama's birth for him to have been a natural-born
citizen. As a for mentioned, she was a young college student at the time and was not. Barack Obama was already 3 years old at that time his mother would have needed to have waited to have him as the only U.S. Citizen parent.
Obama instead should have been naturalized, but even then, that would still disqualify him from holding the office.
*** Naturalized citizens are ineligible to hold the office of President. ***
Though Barack Obama was sent back to Hawaii at age 10, all the other info does not matter because his mother is the one who needed
to have been a U.S. citizen for 10 years prior to his birth on August 4, 1961, with 5 of those years being after age 16.
Further, Obama may have had to have remained in the country for some time to protect any citizenship he would have had,
rather than living in Indonesia.
Now you can see why Obama's aides stopped his speech about how we technically have more than 50 states, because it would have led to this discovery.
This is very clear cut and a blaring violation of U.S. election law.
I think the Gov. of California would be very interested in knowing this if Obama were elected President without being
a natural-born U.S. citizen, and it would set precedence. Stay tuned to your TV sets because I suspect some of this information will be leaking through over the next several daysc
don't know about all that but there still may be more than meets the eye.
Indeed. If Barack Obama did in fact skate on false birth records that would mean he fooled:
The Harvard Law School
The Illinois State Bar
The State Legislature of Illinois
The United States Senate
The State Department
-and The Department of Defense
Keep digging! And get to the bottom of what his middle name really is!
Rumor has it that he changed his first name from Barry when a teenager studying Islam. He used his stepdad's name and used his passport when he went to Hawaii meaning he is a citizen of Indonesia.
I read somewhere that 24 is the ideal age for a woman to give birth, from a health standpoint.
ReplyDeletePsychologically, most young girls are not ready to be mothers. Nor are they ready economically.
Other cultures may encourage teenage motherhood, but the young mothers receive much help from older relatives ( like the grandmother) as well as economic help from the older father.
In the West, we're not set up for
teenage motherhood--at least we haven't been for a long time.
I am a genealogist and I receive many genealogy newsletters every day. This morning, I received one that has a link to Obama's Family Tree.
ReplyDeletewww.genealogy.about.com/od/aframertrees/p/barack_obama.htm
I click on the link and read through it and notice that Obama's birth date is listed, but his parent's marriage year - 1960 - is listed only. I find that strange as it should be a lot easier to find more recent records than his grand-parents marriage records.
Noticing how poorly this supposed "family tree" is researched, I look further and find another link. That link doesn't tell the actual date of marriage either. (Sorry, I can't go back to get the link without losing Steve's Blog.)
Now, with all of the other concerns regarding the black/white issue, parent's age issue, immigrant/citizen issue, etc., I believe that the MOST important issue is the NOT stating of facts to begin with. It shows he's not lying... he's just not telling. And what he is telling, he's blowing it up to sound like a wonderful Hollywood story.
Why don't they just come out and state the facts? Just boggles the mind, doesn't it???
Is this blog for white supremist or what? What a bunch of ignorant haters you all are!
ReplyDeleteSteve what the hell is your point.. Looks like Sarah Palin daugther is how old and as you call it "knocked up"???? that's right Isteve. she's 17 years old. This proves that someone who can't even raise their child would be running on the Republic ballot. Typical BS buddy :)
ReplyDelete"Meanwhile, the candidate's mother married an Indonesian guy who tried to bring home the bacon for her ..."
ReplyDeleteThat's not exactly halal.