The National Football League requires all draft prospects to take the 12-minute Wonderlic IQ test, but it's not clear how much, if any, predictive value it has.
On the other hand, is yards passing the best dependent variable? And there are some arbitrary cut-offs involved. What do you do with all the quarterbacks who have barely gotten to play at all? There are quite a few drafted quarterbacks in the data table with 120+ IQs who have barely gotten into an NFL game.
I wouldn't be surprised if teams keep an eye out for Brian Griese-types -- smart quarterbacks who aren't that physically talented -- and keep them around in case injuries wipe out the top two quarterbacks and they need to plug in a warm body who has memorized the playbook and won't throw too many interceptions. In non-emergency situations, you can use them as quasi-assistant coaches in the meantime, having them do clipboard-associated chores. The smarter ones won't rebel as much at not getting any glory and will be working hard mentally to learn the game so they can become coaches later on. And they're not likely to go to prison for dog-fighting.
Or maybe the NFL uses the Wonderlic for purposes of negotiating contracts? "This kid got 6 right out of 50 and he's being represented by his uncle. Nobody in that family will know "net present value" from a hole in the ground, so let's offer them a $10 million dollar contract with $9 million deferred until 2040. They'll think they're going to be rich." (Dennis Rodman signed that kind of deal with the Chicago Bulls once, where he got $100,000 per year for 30 years -- of course, that annual $100k might be what's keeping Rodman living indoors at present.)
It seems like with all the money involved, somebody should make up a quarterback specific cognitive test rather than rely just on a standard IQ test like the Wonderlic. I've played quarterback for a handful of plays in six on six flag football, but I was quickly yanked because I was clearly overwhelmed by the cognitive demands of following four receivers while dodging the pass rusher. Compare quarterbacks to baseball pitchers. The physical demands aren't that different -- a tall guy with a strong arm -- but pitchers can concentrate on one thing at a time, with just a little bit of multitasking for checking the baserunner's lead at first.
The QB brain test would involve things like memorizing plays and tracking multiple receivers and defensive linemen simultaneously -- the military probably has a "situational awareness" test for fighter pilot applicants that could be adapted.
You could validate the test at summer camps for elite high school quarterbacks, where you can get a big sample size, and then track them at the camp, in high school, and then in college.
My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer
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25 comments:
"And they're not likely to go to prison for dog-fighting."
That was priceless. I almost choked on my drink reading that. No, I don't imagine Brian Griese will be arrested for dog fighting.
- Fred
What was the name of the QB from Harvard who got a perfect score on the Wonderlic and wound up going on to write football books?
Vince Young, he of the reportedly 7 score on Wonderlic, recently mused that he almost thought about retiring after his first season.
Square peg, meet round hole.
He's now backtracking on the statement, presumably prodded by his progressive management team lest he give the wrong impression that blacks with not-great intelligence aren't cut out to be QBs.
There's some sort of personality test out there for QBs that is said to be an good predictor of performance; it red-flagged Ryan Leaf, anyway. Can't find a - ah, found it:
"For sports franchises, typing players may be the most exciting application of Niednagel's research. Every executive wants to remove as much guesswork from the draft and trades as possible. That was why the Chargers hired Niednagel prior to the 1998 NFL Draft. While scouts debated whether Manning or Ryan Leaf would develop into the better quarterback, Niednagel believed without a doubt that Manning was wired for success. Many might argue that Manning, with an NFL quarterback for a father, was a safer bet regardless of brain type.
But at the time, it sounded like a bold prediction, one that did not exactly sit well with the San Diego front office. The Chargers selected Leaf, despite his ESTJ brain type, and it proved disastrous. According to Niednagel, ESTJs perform poorly under pressure, developing tunnel vision and a more mechanical throwing motion in stressful situations.
"I couldn't hardly wait to get to the office after seeing Jon on TV one night [discussing the NFL draft]," said former Chargers quarterback coach June Jones. "I told [general manager] Bobby Beathard about Jon. He said, `Yeah, we're paying him.' I said, `We're paying him and we're moving up to draft Ryan Leaf?' But it was so new at that time that nobody trusted it. So that was about a $15 million mistake. I think Danny was one of the first guys that really trusted Jonathan."
www.braintypes.com/bglobe.htm
Looks like it got Carson Palmer wrong though: from 2004:
"In Palmer's case, it is how he managed to win a Heisman Trophy, become the top pick in the draft and earn millions.
``Even if a quarterback has the top brain type, unless he's coached properly, he'll never make it,'' Niednagel said. ``There are some who aren't wired as good, but have better coaches, work harder and have better players around them.''
Niednagel has identified 16 brain types, derived roughly from the four personality-type dichotomies of the Myers-Briggs test, made vogue by the business world. The difference, is that Niednagel believes brain types carry physiological as well as personality traits.
Niednagel classifies Palmer's brain type, in the Myers-Briggs vernacular, as ISFJ ISFJ - Introverted Sensing Feeling Judging (Myers-Briggs personality type indicator) - introverted, sensing, feeling and judging.
It is so rare among athletes that Niednagel has never seen it in an NFL quarterback. He rates ISFJ among the bottom half of brain types for quarterbacks, but declined to be more specific.
ISFJ types possess dominant gross motor skills, allowing them to throw the ball long and hard, he says. They're also perfectionists, disciplined and able to throw extremely accurately - when relaxed."
www.thefreelibrary.com/HEAD+GAMES+DOCTOR:+BRAIN+TYPE+COULD+LIMIT+PALMER'S+SUCCESS-a0121867808
Joe Montana, perhaps the best QB ever, was likely a ISFJ. Not the greatest social animal, but very calm, cool, collected at game time. He always figured he could just out-execute the defense. So Palmer is not likely an aberration. Heck Eli is probably the same way. Not as outgoing as his older brother. Still Superbowl champ over Brady.
Who is over-rated.
It's not just QB, there's a movement afoot to promote WR who can actually catch the ball, as opposed to merely run a blazing 40. Jerry Rice is pretty clear, he's said speed is probably only half of what makes up a WR, the ability to create separation in an instant and catch in traffic and hold on during brutal tackles is what makes a champion WR. Rice holds that with most teams having only one really fast guy, the defense can double-cover him and even the fastest speedster is not going to get open unless he can have superior body control to create separation in "an instant" as he says.
I think coaches are going to move towards players who can more reliably execute, rather the "super athlete" who demands lots of coddling, is at risk for all sorts of off-the-field idiocy, and so on. Lovey Smith cut Tank Williams, so it seems the Black Coaches in particular (Smith, Edwards, Dungy) are fed up with coddling bad attitude players.
Yeah, the Falcon's experience is probably object lesson #1 for the rest of the league. Though I suspect IQ is not as important as attitude and ability to execute no matter what. [If you have NFL Network, don't miss "Inside Training Camp" particularly Edwards with KC. VERY interesting.]
"I think coaches are going to move towards players who can more reliably execute, rather the "super athlete" who demands lots of coddling,"
Buddy please, whatever you do here, don't sound like double-talking, mealy-mouthed, constipated PeeCee weennie! Let me help you out:
WHEN ARE NFL GM'S GOING TO SIGN MORE WHITE GUYS.
Now was that so hard?
Truth, there's slow black guys too. Particularly at WR, the choice between a guy who can run say .3 or .4 slower but catch the ball, and a guy who's just fast, could be the difference.
Some white guys might start. It'll probably look more like the 80's Niners. A few white guys (Clark) but probably mostly black. Since that position is dominated by black players for the moment. Simple numbers mean coaches will still select mostly Black players but won't select purely for speed.
Rice IIRC was undrafted out of Mississippi State, and was considered "too slow" but managed to catch a few here and there. Not everything is in racial terms, coaches don't care about anything but W's and networking for their (next) job. Character is likely to count though. Most teams would rather have a Rice than say, Brian Bosworth. A guy like Rice's offseason conditioning will put pressure on others to come into camp, basically fit enough to play immediately.
I've heard Young talk btw on NFL Network. He's no Charles Woodson, or Terrell Davis, but he's at least as intelligent as say, Matt Leinart. He doesn't shoot his mouth off. No trouble that I can see. Wants to win. Tennessee's coaching troubles probably affected him, Chow had major issues with Fisher.
In the biggest college football game of the decade, the 2006 Rose Bowl, Vince Young played the greatest college football game of the decade.
He's all right by me.
Steve- you are on fire this week- excellent stuff. Right about Young- greatest performance ever in a bowl game- although I knew he wouldn't work out in the pros. Thought Leinart would and he still may. Akili Smith (AA) had really high wonderlic but was awful.
Jerry Rice- drafted in 1st round from Miss Valley St- still late for best player ever
Brian Griese does not fight pit bulls- he does however enter his Maltese into dog pageants
I don't know if I'd call it the greatest college football game of the decade, but Vince Young's performance in the '06 Rose Bowl was unreal. When a guy that big is that fast, he's deceptively fast. He dominated that game. Harder to do against a much faster and more disciplined NFL defense though.
Truth,
Nice to see you again. Feel free to check back in to our discussion on the "Do Brazilians Hate Reading..." thread. Looking forward to your response.
- Fred
Testing99 said:
"Rice IIRC was undrafted out of Mississippi State, and was considered "too slow" but managed to catch a few here and there."
Not sure who "Rice IIRC" is but Jerry Rice of Mississippi Valley State was drafted by the 49ers in the first round of the '85 draft.
In the biggest college football game of the decade, the 2006 Rose Bowl, Vince Young played the greatest college football game of the decade.
He's all right by me.
Me too! Best big game performance since Anthony Davis against Notre Dame in '72.
If a test can be made for the quarterback, why not for the whole team? A short battery of tests could be assigned and the results of these tests could be used to place potential draftees into the right position.
The amazing thing about Young's performance in the BCS championship is that he did it just as well in the Rose Bowl against Michigan a year earlier, and everyone has forgotten. That may have been the second best performance ever in a big college football game.
Wonderlic scores are a nice thing, but if they were overly important in the NFL, Steven Hawking would be QB-ing the Vikings. Sports are primarily a physical persuit and anyone who can decipher an NFL playbook is fairly smart.
Heath Shuler, strangely enough, who is now a US congressman and one of the biggest QB busts ever is reputed to have been "too dumb" to play NFL QB in his days with the Redskins. One of his coaches said something along the lines of "we'd signal in a play something would also get fouled up between there and the snap." He now works with complicated budget and foreign affairs issues so he's not dumb, just without the right cognition for football.
Fred, are we persisting with this?
In all possible respect, your points seem to have been corrupted by an emotional attachment to the material. You continually harp on the fact that blacks score lower on these tests than whites. I do not dispute that. One the other hand it seems that you had to go through three days of soul-searching to admit that some whites score higher than other whites.
You rationalize this by saying that all people on the nature side of this debate readily admit that the North East Asians are smarter than they are. This is marginally true with a few very large caveats:
1) "BS, look what we've invented and look what they've invented."
2) "They're only superior at one type (mathematical) of intelligence."
3) "Their Bell Curve is skinnier- less true geniuses."
4) "Their societies are not corrupted by blacks and the Jew-spiracy."
5) They're not smarter they just study harder."
6) "who the hell wants to be a slanty-eye'd nerd anyway?"
I could go on.
However, if you were to tell Tiago in Lisbon, Theodore in Athens, Juan in Barcelona, Seamus in Limerick and Lukas in Split that they are simply genetically and irreversibly dumber than Hans in Berlin, and Magnus in Oslo, and if you were to tell the latter two that not only do we want to get rid of the darkies, but that the semi-darkies are inferior welfare recipients from of your hard-earned EU dollars, this would change the course of the world don't you think?
If you spend some time reading about Hitler, one of the interesting things that I read was that he had no moral compulsion about invading France, or czechoslovakia because he consider the Guals and Slavs to be inferior human beings, he had very little respect for the Russians and even Italians but was torn by bombing England and would have done all he could to avoid it because he considered the Anglos to be of the same "race".
In your opinion, old boy, with this in mind, where did Hitler fall on the IQ scale?
By the way, Cleveland Browns quarterback Frank Ryan, who has a Ph.D. in math from Rice U., was known for not having a lot of on-field football smarts. He wasn't a great decisionmaker. He was admired by his teammates, though, for being tough and brave.
Truth,
"In all possible respect, your points seem to have been corrupted by an emotional attachment to the material."
You seem to be projecting here. It was you who brought up the subject of IQ differences on that thread in the first place, not me. The irony is that for all of your protestations, you and I seem to agree on the basic facts of race and IQ, the facts that comprise the consensus for most experts in the field. Nevertheless, you managed to hypothesize spurious Jared Diamond-like explanations for why the Portuguese became a major trading power while the Ghanaians were in a largely primitive society at the time. I'm not sure what your point was there.
As for your "caveats", you seem to be conflating the average white supremacist (and admittedly there are a few lurking here) with serious researchers on race and IQ. It's a fair point with respect to the white supremacists, but it's not an accurate statement about serious researchers such as Charles Murray,
or Steve Sailer, for that matter. It's also not an accurate statement about me.
The argumentum ad Hitlerum is pointless. As Sailer has pointed out on this site before, Hitler's racial theories were as unscientific as those of today's liberal creationists, who deny that there is any hereditary component to intelligence. Like the liberal creationists, Hitler started with an ideological conclusion and tried to line up data to support it, while rejecting all data that refuted his ideological bias (e.g., as Sailer has noted here, banning IQ tests in Germany after seeing that German Jews scored higher than German non-Jews).
Since we agree on the facts, the meta-question is what we should do with those facts. Sailer has done some thinking about that (see, for example, his series on how to help the left half of the bell curve). I haven't seen Sailer recommend invading Poland or France. The question of what policy responses might make sense for America in light of the facts about IQ also shouldn't be determined by what Tiago in Lisbon or Theodore in Greece might think about them.
- Fred
"Sports are primarily a physical persuit and anyone who can decipher an NFL playbook is fairly smart."
Being a QB also involves mental abilities that aren't tested on traditional IQ tests, and not just the situational awareness Steve has mentioned. Consider the challenge of the QB throwing to a running receiver while the QB himself is running to avoid the pass rush. That requires a lot of intuiting/estimating the defenders' angles of pursuit, where the ball needs to be thrown to meet the receiver, etc.
Even a bit of QB side work such as placing the ball for place kickers requires a lot of coordination and poise: receiving the snap, placing the point of the ball right where your left finger was on the ground, making sure the ball is tilted at the correct angle, rotating the ball so the laces face away from the kicker -- and doing all that in less than a second as defenders are rushing in on you.
- Fred
The amazing thing about Young's performance in the BCS championship is that he did it just as well in the Rose Bowl against Michigan a year earlier, and everyone has forgotten. That may have been the second best performance ever in a big college football game.
He was able to coast through the 12 games in between those two bowl games. He didn't have to put Texas on his back and carry them like Tebow had to do last year with the Gators. There is no telling what kind of numbers Young could have put up had it been necessary for the 'horns to score more.
And we may never know how good he could be in the NFL if he's required to run a traditional offense. I might be in the minority on this: but the uniformity of NFL's offenses bores me. Let Vince improvise.
I stand corrected on Rice. He was taken low though for the caliber of the player.
I also think we are looking at the wrong things.
What stands out with Rice, or a guy like Montana, or heck Peyton Manning (I STRONGLY urge anyone with NFL Network to check out training camp reports during Aug) is the constant practice. Last year I saw the Colt's training camp and Manning was out there with Harrison early in the morning running routes for 3 hours or so. Manning was interviewed and he said the repetitions were crucial because the movement had to be automatic, no thought. Burned into muscle memory by endless reps.
I think if Young works at it he can be that caliber of QB. It will take countless reps but I think he can get it done. I'm not a fan of running QBs cause they get hurt and don't play long, but mobility to buy two-three extra seconds and make the play is outstanding.
FWIW, his college coach swore by his preparation, so maybe he needs more adjustments coaching-wise. Eli struggled his first few years, as has KC QB Brody Croyle.
The running QBs like Vick, Randall Cunningham, McNabb always seem to leave the league early because of the pounding. A scrambler like Favre is to me where it's at.
Young has media obligation
Commentary by DAVID CLIMER • Senior Writer • June 1, 2008
You expect rookie mistakes.
You deal with sophomore slumps.
Advertisement
But Vince Young is entering his third NFL season. It's time to get with the program.
Specifically, Young needs to start playing the role of an NFL quarterback, both on the field and off. And like it or not, part of that responsibility is dealing with the media.
To the point: Stop sending mixed messages in interviews.
One day, Young tells Thomas George, a senior columnist for NFL.com who is recognized as a very thorough reporter, that he "really thought long and hard" about quitting football after his rookie season in 2006.
A week later, Young tells our Titans beat writer, Jim Wyatt: "I was never going to quit football." He says the report on NFL.com was "blown out of proportion."
This just in, V.Y.: Everything you say or do is going to be blown out of proportion. It's time for you to understand that and proceed accordingly.
You're an NFL quarterback. Joe Blow can blend into the background. You can't. Fair or not, this is the game you play.
This isn't the first time Young has raised eyebrows with his comments. In an interview with 60 Minutes last year, Young reflected upon a situation in his rookie season when he missed the team plane to Philadelphia and had to catch a later flight.
"I was just so mad, I was to the point that I didn't want to play," Young said.
Power of the press
This revelation, several months after the fact, did not sit well at Titans Central. You miss a flight and then you don't want to play in some kind of protest of your own tardiness? Huh?
Now, I'm not going to pretend I know what goes on in Young's head or in Young's world. When he says there "was so much going on with my family" after his rookie season, I take him at his word. He has kept much of his private life exactly that — private. More power to him.
Young prefers the approach taken by Colts receiver Marvin Harrison, who steadfastly refuses to talk to the media.
Sorry, VY, but you can't have it both ways. If you're going to be the face of the franchise — and you are, like it or not — you almost must be the voice of the franchise.
Let's face it: This isn't a media market that eats its Young. Ask second-time-around Titan Jevon Kearse about his four years in Philadelphia and some Media Gone Wild horror stories.
So it's time to wipe the slate clean and start anew. What you say and how you say it carries considerable weight.
This is your team and your town. Handle with care.
http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080601/COLUMNIST0202/
806010390/1002/SPORTS
Not that he needs defending by the likes of me, but when he takes time out from sleeping with some of the most beautiful women in the world, meeting the Pope, being the guy that every woman in America wants to marry and every parent wants for their daughter, and polishing his three Super Bowl rings, Tom Brady is a pretty good little quarterback. The reason he was the losing QB in last year's Super Bowl was due to his injured ankle, which didn't allow him to avoid the Giants' pass rush; with an uninjured Brady, the Patriots don't lose by 3, they win by 14. He's the best in the NFL in feeling the pressure and making the right play, something that is innate.
The difference between the Brady/Manning axis and the Vicks/Vince Youngs of the world is not lack of melanin, but the fact that the former are looking to make the completion, and the latter are too quick to take off when there's the slightest bit of a pass rush; in doing so they may be playing to their strengths, but they're also hurting their teams.
Re: Brady-the rookies at the Patriots' minicamp this spring were surprised when, upon their 6 AM arrival, they found Brady in the middle of his workout. He took the time to talk to each of them, some of whom will not be back for a second look, which made a huge impression on them. Of course, he's not an advertisement whore like some NFL QB's we could name, so he has the time to be a good teammate. Leadership is one of the more important aspects of the quarterback's job, and Brady takes second place to nobody in that facet. Contrast that with the Mannings of the world, quick to throw a teammate under the bus in adverse times.
Finally, never underestimate the advantage of carrying the clipboard for a year or two. Brady got to understudy Drew Bledsoe, poster boy for the million dollar arm/ten cent head brigade. Were it not for a serious injury to Bledsoe, the world may never have heard of Tom Brady.
Brutus
As others have noted, Jerry Rice did not go undrafted- however, he did plummet to the bottom of the first round, where the already potent 49ers were able to pick him up, making them the most explosive offense in the NFL.
In the same way, Emmitt Smith, the all-time leading rusher in NFL history, fell all the way to 17th overall pick. Yes, still a first rounder, but obviously something scared a lot of teams away from taking the best player in that class.
One never knows exactly what scouts and executives are thinking, or why a player can move up or down so quickly. A herd mentality sometimes takes over on draft day. So, if a guy who was SUPPOSED to go in the top 3 picks is still on the board toward the end of Round 1, teams start wondering and whispering, "What's wrong with him? Why didn't somebody ELSE take him? Do they know something we don't? Is he injured? Is he a head case?" And that player may wind up sliding a long, long way before someone finally drafts him.
The Cowboys and the 49ers were lucky enough to pick up some gems that other teams foolishly bypassed.
As for Vince Young... I'm certainly concerned about his lack of progress. I don't think he's dumb- rather, I think he's been too successful for his own good. A less gifted, less successful QB would see the need for intensive study. Vince has always had such sheer physical talent that he hasn't see that need. When defenses have been too tough to read, he's taken off running- and that's usually worked spectacularly well! It even worked in his rookie year in the NFL.
But last year, teams decided to contain Young, and DARED him to beat them with his throwing arm. That strategy paid off, and Vince seemed to backtrack as a quarterback.
That Vince couldn't or wouldn't learn from Norm Chow is disturbing. But I recall that many observers in Dallas thought Troy Aikman was dumb too, and that Troy seemed unable to learn from David Shula or Jerry Rhome. So, I'm not yet prepared to write Vince off as a lost cause. I'd just like to see him study a lot harder.
Truth:"...where did Hitler fall on the IQ scale." More interesting,where would he have fallen on the Wonderlic scale? Hitler,a bit short and pudgy,but imagine the "superior" nutrition and training in the USA,you may have one heck of a QB. COACH:"Yo Hitler,remember last Sunday,when Leroy dropped that sure TD pass,and we lost the game and a playoff berth?" HITLER:"Yeah..." COACH:"Uhm,have you seen him? I mean its been 5 days and not a word,and well,you did go out with him for dinner Sunday nite..." HITLER:"What are you saying...coach?" COACH:"Uhm...n-n-never mind!" HITLER:"That a boy. Hey,hows the draft look this year?" Plus, I can see him with Giselle Bundchen. "You're a German,eh? Brazil,its a nice place right? Good to know...you know,just in case..." :) PS:FRED,what is a "white supremacist". Its not helpful to use such a term unless you can define it exactly.
Brutus is quite right to note that Tom Brady benefitted from not having to jump right in as a starting quarterback in his rookie year.
When a quarterback is drafted high in the first round and paid a lot of money, management wants to get some kind of return on their investment quickly, and fans expect to see immediate results. If that quarterback struggles early, he's liable to be written off an an expensive flop in a big hurry. And if an unheralded scrub completes a few throws in the 4th quarter of an exhibition game, fans will quickly decide they like the scrub better than the "overpaid, overhyped" rookie (witness how quickly Redskins fans turned on Heath Shuler, and called for Gus Frerotte to start).
Matt Hassellbeck, who was a late round selection the same year that Ryan Leaf was taken second overall, has expressed some sympathy for Leaf. Hassellbeck acknowledges that Leaf didn't handle things well, but he also admits, "If the Chargers had drafted me in that spot and made me the starter right away, I would have fallen on my face just like Ryan, and people would be writing what a bust I was."
Instead, like Tom Brady, Hassellbeck got to carry a clipboard for a while and work his way into the system. He wasn't earning top dollar, so there was little pressure for him to perform like an All-Pro right away.
If Aaron Rodgers is able to do the job in Green Bay this fall, he may thank his lucky stars that his stock plummeted so far. And Alex Smith may soon be wondering if he'd have been better off on the bench for a few years.
"being the guy that every woman in America wants to marry and every parent wants for their daughter"
Eh, this may be overstating the case. The guy did knock up his actress ex-girlfriend and then dump her for the world's highest-paid model. Maybe some parents would want Brady as a meal ticket, but who would want to see their daughter dumped when the next pretty face turns his head? Contrast that with Eli, who just married his college sweetheart.
"The reason he was the losing QB in last year's Super Bowl was due to his injured ankle, which didn't allow him to avoid the Giants' pass rush; with an uninjured Brady, the Patriots don't lose by 3, they win by 14."
The Pats only won by 3 in their regular season match up. It could have gone either way, but the Giants won because they out-played the Pats, particularly the Giants D-line versus the Pats O-line. The Pats peaked too early in the regular season. The Giants peaked in the Super Bowl, after a great effort against the Pats in their last regular season game and three great playoff games.
- Fred
Truth:"...where did Hitler fall on the IQ scale." More interesting,where would he have fallen on the Wonderlic scale? Hitler,a bit short and pudgy,but imagine the "superior" nutrition and training in the USA,you may have one heck of a QB. COACH:"Yo Hitler,remember last Sunday,when Leroy dropped that sure TD pass,and we lost the game and a playoff berth?" HITLER:"Yeah..." COACH:"Uhm,have you seen him? I mean its been 5 days and not a word,and well,you did go out with him for dinner Sunday nite..." HITLER:"What are you saying...coach?" COACH:"Uhm...n-n-never mind!" HITLER:"That a boy. Hey,hows the draft look this year?" Plus, I can see him with Giselle Bundchen. "You're a German,eh? Brazil,its a nice place right? Good to know...you know,just in case..." :) PS:FRED,what is a "white supremacist". Its not helpful to use such a term unless you can define it exactly.
See, this is why I get annoyed at PC. This would make a heck of a good SNL sketch.
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