Of course; I meant that this is an impressive line up of academics who agreed to an interview for a publicly published blog. Razib has a bigger collection of such interviews, but he has a fairly high profile in the science blogging world while HBD books is a brand new blog.
Hoste: I presume hereditarians and environmentalists would only debate what percentage of the underclass can’t be helped. What should be done with these people, particularly when it comes to passing on their genes?
Nisbett: It’s true that I don’t doubt that IQ – and intelligence however measured – are substantially influenced by genetics. I don’t believe we know exactly how much for any population. I certainly think some proportion of the population are unable to care for themselves. Does anyone not believe this? I wouldn’t care to hazard a guess as to what proportion that would be. Are you suggesting eugenics for such people? That’s not been a popular position since WWII.
--- I love how these people think they can win any argument by throwing around the word "eugenics." It's just like people who throw around the word "racist" or use the old "reductio ad Hitleram." They can't win an argument on the merits, so they try to foreclose the possibility of argument.
Eugenics not popular? Break your news to the dairy farmers. Then whisper with those involved with directing/managing/ human sperm donations to otherwise infertile couples.
Actually, I know of no research or even anecdotal reports as to how many dull normal people or EMH people have been suitably interviewed about voluntary eugenics for themselves. The celluloid image is that birth control is usually softly or directly imposed upon them. Interviewing these people requires expertise and caring (& objectivity
Asking Nisbett the question about eugenics took some guts. I'm impressed. The article on Tim Wise and other one on whiteness studies were something else too.
What's wierd is that nobody brought up the following
"Hoste: Regarding the study of the French children adopted into the top social class having IQs 12 points higher than those adopted into the lowest SES group: even hereditarians will concede that intelligence is to a certain extent malleable in childhood. Is there any evidence, from this or other studies, that these gains hold into adulthood?
Nisbett: There are no data that I am aware of on IQ of adult adoptees. Such data would be extremely informative."
No data on adult adoptees? It sounds like he means at all, not just in this study. Could he really not know what he's talking about to that extent?
Re portion of Interview about The Milwaukee Project/ Rick Heber. The main case against Heber was in Fed Court for W. Dist. of WI and is Case No. 81--CR--20--C. The 09-day jury trial ended July 30, 1981 and that same day Heber was found guilty on all 13 counts he was indicted for. He served prison time in a min. security facility at Bastrop, TX.--36 mo or less.
The Heber Affair has been so beclouded for nearly 30 years that there is even misinformation as to when he died. Heber was among 13 American tourists and a Kenyan pilot who were all killed Dec. 03, 1987 in Rwuanda. His address then was Monument, Co, where apparently he settled after transitioning from the min. security prison in Bastrop, Texas.
Monument Colorado "where apparently he settled after" Not so. He lived in Colorado--probably at the Monument "ranch" (He was a multi- millionaire, not dependent at all on a professor's salary ) where, in addition to one or two other ranches, he imported, trained, bred, and showed fine Arabian Horses. He reportedly was in realistic terms, domiciled in Colorado for years during which time he was a full time tenured professor at U. of Wisconsin, Madison. He reportedly exuded power and prestige wherever he went, was a close friend of the Kennedy family, of Anwar Sadat, and so on. He had a ranch about 20 miles from Madison, but it appears it was more or less a "travel stop" (whenever he dropped into Madison?) He was not convicted for getting funny with money granted into the Milwaukee Project (and there was oceans of it) or for not having detailed raw research data for the Project. It appears no one--feds, University, etc.--wanted to touch with a hundred foot pole anything involving the issue of Blank Slate IQ boosting vis a vis Jensenism. Once he had a covert operative generate a whole lot of media hype in the summer of 1971 about how the Project (Blank Slate based, in the final analysis ) was creating a "Miracle" of boosting IQ's as much as 30 points---no one wanted to hear later that it was "fool's gold". In Octoberf 1972 a respected educational psychologist, Prof. Ellis Page, published a several page paper detaiing all the oddities and "question marks" hanging over the Heber Milwuakee "Miracle". For eight years--repeat: eight years--no one could think of Page's paper, see anything wrong with Heber's cloud covered project. By the late 70's, Heber was whispered on campus to be "The Howard Hughes of Retardation Research" because most of the time no one knew where the hell he was or what he was doing. He bought and sold valuable research, flew his own private jet planes, taveled all over the world about Arabian horses, and did a lot of presentations, etc. about mental retardation. When he was hauled into court to be convicted on 13 counts of money fraud it was for funds that had been granted to a workshop/ seminar / project he had on campus attendant to his being head of the campus (U of MADison Wisconsin ) center for the study of retardation. No one appears to have wanted to even touch the Milwaukee 'Miracle" project because of the taboo nature of any face off between environmentalism and Jensenism. Heber spent about 03 years in fed country club prisons, some of it near his horse ranch at Monument, Co. Information about the Project is oddly scattered and meagre. How a ton of money could be poured into the Project with no accounting on campus, in D.C. etc. is great comedy material.
How does this guy manage to get interviews with people like Nisbett, Geoffrey Miller, and Richard Lynn? He's just an anthropology grad student.
ReplyDeleteVia email?
ReplyDeleteOf course; I meant that this is an impressive line up of academics who agreed to an interview for a publicly published blog. Razib has a bigger collection of such interviews, but he has a fairly high profile in the science blogging world while HBD books is a brand new blog.
ReplyDeleteHe shows initiative!
ReplyDeleteHoste: I presume hereditarians and environmentalists would only debate what percentage of the underclass can’t be helped. What should be done with these people, particularly when it comes to passing on their genes?
ReplyDeleteNisbett: It’s true that I don’t doubt that IQ – and intelligence however measured – are substantially influenced by genetics. I don’t believe we know exactly how much for any population. I certainly think some proportion of the population are unable to care for themselves. Does anyone not believe this? I wouldn’t care to hazard a guess as to what proportion that would be. Are you suggesting eugenics for such people? That’s not been a popular position since WWII.
---
I love how these people think they can win any argument by throwing around the word "eugenics." It's just like people who throw around the word "racist" or use the old "reductio ad Hitleram." They can't win an argument on the merits, so they try to foreclose the possibility of argument.
Eugenics not popular? Break your
ReplyDeletenews to the dairy farmers. Then
whisper with those involved with
directing/managing/ human sperm donations to otherwise infertile
couples.
Actually, I know of no research or
ReplyDeleteeven anecdotal reports as to how
many dull normal people or EMH
people have been suitably interviewed about voluntary eugenics for themselves. The
celluloid image is that birth control is usually softly or directly imposed upon them. Interviewing these people requires
expertise and caring (& objectivity
Asking Nisbett the question about eugenics took some guts. I'm impressed. The article on Tim Wise and other one on whiteness studies were something else too.
ReplyDeleteWhat's wierd is that nobody brought up the following
"Hoste: Regarding the study of the French children adopted into the top social class having IQs 12 points higher than those adopted into the lowest SES group: even hereditarians will concede that intelligence is to a certain extent malleable in childhood. Is there any evidence, from this or other studies, that these gains hold into adulthood?
Nisbett: There are no data that I am aware of on IQ of adult adoptees. Such data would be extremely informative."
No data on adult adoptees? It sounds like he means at all, not just in this study. Could he really not know what he's talking about to that extent?
Re portion of Interview about
ReplyDeleteThe Milwaukee Project/ Rick Heber.
The main case against Heber was
in Fed Court for W. Dist. of WI
and is Case No. 81--CR--20--C.
The 09-day jury trial ended July 30, 1981 and that same day Heber was
found guilty on all 13 counts he
was indicted for. He served prison
time in a min. security facility
at Bastrop, TX.--36 mo or less.
The Heber Affair has been so beclouded for nearly 30 years that there is even misinformation as to when he died. Heber was among 13
ReplyDeleteAmerican tourists and a Kenyan pilot who were all killed Dec. 03, 1987 in Rwuanda. His address then
was Monument, Co, where apparently
he settled after transitioning from the min. security prison in
Bastrop, Texas.
Monument Colorado "where apparently
ReplyDeletehe settled after" Not so. He lived in Colorado--probably at the Monument "ranch" (He was a multi-
millionaire, not dependent at all on a professor's salary ) where, in
addition to one or two other ranches, he imported, trained, bred, and showed fine Arabian Horses. He reportedly was in realistic terms, domiciled in Colorado for years during which time he was a full time tenured professor at U. of Wisconsin, Madison. He reportedly exuded power and prestige wherever he went, was a close friend of the Kennedy family, of Anwar Sadat, and so on. He had a ranch about 20 miles from Madison, but it appears it was more or less a "travel stop" (whenever he dropped into Madison?) He was not convicted for getting funny with money granted into the Milwaukee Project (and there was oceans of it) or for not having detailed raw research data for the Project. It
appears no one--feds, University, etc.--wanted to touch with a hundred foot pole anything involving the issue of Blank Slate
IQ boosting vis a vis Jensenism. Once he had a covert operative generate a whole lot of media hype in the summer of 1971 about how the
Project (Blank Slate based, in the
final analysis ) was creating a "Miracle" of boosting IQ's as much as 30 points---no one wanted to hear later that it was "fool's
gold". In Octoberf 1972 a respected educational psychologist,
Prof. Ellis Page, published a several page paper detaiing all the
oddities and "question marks" hanging over the Heber Milwuakee "Miracle". For eight years--repeat: eight years--no one could think of Page's paper, see anything wrong with Heber's cloud covered project. By the late 70's,
Heber was whispered on campus to
be "The Howard Hughes of Retardation Research" because most of the time no one knew where the hell he was or what he was doing.
He bought and sold valuable research, flew his own private jet
planes, taveled all over the world about Arabian horses, and did a lot of presentations, etc. about
mental retardation. When he was hauled into court to be convicted on 13 counts of money fraud it was for funds that had been granted to a workshop/ seminar / project he had on campus attendant to his being head of the campus (U of MADison Wisconsin ) center for the study of retardation. No one appears to have wanted to even touch the Milwaukee 'Miracle" project because of the taboo nature of any face off between environmentalism and Jensenism. Heber spent about 03 years in fed
country club prisons, some of it near his horse ranch at Monument,
Co. Information about the Project
is oddly scattered and meagre. How a ton of money could be poured
into the Project with no accounting on campus, in D.C. etc.
is great comedy material.
ref comment made on 02/27/2013
ReplyDelete**************
I believe the commentator must
have intended to say "bought and
sold real estate" (not "research")