One of the more controversial LA area questions over the last decade was whether or not Latino and black gangs were fighting a low-level ethnic cleansing struggle in the mixed ethnicity slums, as blacks often alleged. Civic leaders, such as LAPD chief William Bratton vociferously denied it, as well they might considering potential repercussions.
Slowly, the story is coming out in court cases. My guess is that the answer will turn out to be: Yes, but only in certain times and places, often depending upon the whim of local gang leaders.
From the LA Times' ace crime reporter Sam Quinones:
In contrast, there have only been three homicides in Florence-Firestone neighborhood over the last seven months, so the situation there is much improved.
And here's Quinones's latest, on the testimony of a different Mexican Mafia leader, one who must have watched The Godfather trilogy a lot. I bet he identified with Al Pacino's character:
Slowly, the story is coming out in court cases. My guess is that the answer will turn out to be: Yes, but only in certain times and places, often depending upon the whim of local gang leaders.
From the LA Times' ace crime reporter Sam Quinones:
Six Florencia 13 gang members sentenced to life in prison
Court action may close the door on a rampage that began in 2004 and evolved into what some residents saw as a race war.
The sentencing of six Florencia 13 gang members to life in prison appears to bring to a close a prolonged and terrifying spate of violence in the Florence-Firestone district allegedly brought on by orders from a prison gang member in solitary confinement 700 miles away.
Beginning in 2004, the unincorporated Los Angeles County area north of Watts [unincorporated parts of LA County are patrolled by LA Sheriffs rather than LAPD] was the site of one of the region's worst gang sieges since the early 1990s, evolving into what some residents felt was a race war.
The violence left dozens of people dead, including many with no gang affiliation, and required enormous county resources to combat. ...
U.S. District Judge David Carter sentenced Florencia member Francisco Flores, 24, to life in prison on Wednesday, saying that he "preyed on victims because they were black and for no other reason," according to a U.S. attorney's office news release. ..
Their trial, which took place in federal court in Santa Ana in 2008, grew from an indictment of 104 Florencia gang members on charges that included racketeering, conspiracy to sell drugs and murder.
Of those indicted, 94 have pleaded guilty or have been convicted. Four more await trial; two have died and four are fugitives.
The case showed the remarkable power the Mexican Mafia prison gang holds over Southern California Latino street gangs. Prosecutors alleged that Mexican Mafia member Arturo "Tablas" Castellanos essentially created a crime wave in the Florence-Firestone district.
Castellanos was not indicted because he is already serving a life prison term in a maximum security cell in Pelican Bay State Prison. He hasn't been on the streets since 1979.
Yet he wrote letters, introduced as evidence at the trial, that presumed to control a street gang, most of whose members had never seen him.
Castellanos ordered gang members to stop rampant infighting; to tax drug dealers in their neighborhoods, as well as prostitutes, fruit vendors and vendors of phony ID cards in nearby Huntington Park; and to funnel the proceeds to him and other mafia members. He also ordered the gang to attack the local Crips gang, whose members are black.
"The Mexican Mafia has a powerful grasp on these [Latino] gangs," said Peter Hernandez, the assistant U.S. attorney who prosecuted the case.
"The prison system is a segregated place. Those rules and letters from Castellanos attempted to adhere those prison rules to the street," he said.
As Castellanos' letters appeared on the street in the fall and winter of 2004, Florencia 13 erupted in a spate of violence against African Americans.
"They just went out and started shooting" at black people, Hernandez said.
East Coast Crips responded with shootings of their own, often targeting Latinos who were not gang members.
Few actual gang members died. Instead, residents said, they lived amid a race war.
Tapped cellular phone calls introduced as evidence at the trial tracked Florencia members driving the streets looking for people to shoot.
Black men, in particular, reported not walking to the store for groceries or riding bikes.
Florence-Firestone, with a population of 60,000, had 43 homicides in 2005.
In contrast, there have only been three homicides in Florence-Firestone neighborhood over the last seven months, so the situation there is much improved.
And here's Quinones's latest, on the testimony of a different Mexican Mafia leader, one who must have watched The Godfather trilogy a lot. I bet he identified with Al Pacino's character:
Real tried to break from his family and go straight, even receiving First Communion alone at 17, he said. But, "every time I try to get out, they pull me back in.
My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer
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35 comments:
One problem with our multicultural paradise is that the number of prisoners serving heavy sentences are such a drain on the public till. Schwartzenegger suggested outsourcing illegal alien convicts to Mexico. An excellent concept. We've outsourced everything to China, why not our convicts? I'm sure the Chinese could come in with a reasonable bid to incarcerate our felons and do it at a lower cost. I believe they have underutilized prisoner facilities left over from the '50's-'70's. Inspectors from the USA could be on site to monitor quality of service provided, ensuring that human rights are safeguarded in keeping with our standards. Look for the label "Incarcerated in China" as a mark of quality.
It's kind of funny (at least to me). I remember all those blacks in south-central L.A. (and elsewhere) yelling and screaming like jackasses when O.J. Simpson got off. Like they had achieved something great. Now all the blacks in L.A. are being pushed out by Latinos who have no use for them at all. What a hollow victory. A lot of blacks think they will be better off when Hispanic immigration finally makes Whites a minority. They don't know how blacks are treated in Latin America or they wouldn't think such nonsense.
I wonder why we haven't heard about this on any major News Outlets? What if it was whites ethnically cleansing blacks? Would that make the news?
An excellent concept. We've outsourced everything to China, why not our convicts?
Because courts have determined that prisoners are wards of the court. If they have their rights abused while they are in custody of the state, you might as well hand the money over. Except of course if they are raped by other prisoners. That's the other prisoners right.
"I wonder why we haven't heard about this on any major News Outlets? What if it was whites ethnically cleansing blacks? Would that make the news?"
Because the MSM doesn't really care about blacks.
Minorities are used a pawns in a perpetual status game for libs to show how enlightened they are.
This story doesn't have the usual "redneck whitey is evil" slant to it, so it is ignored.
It's interesting that three pudgy Florencia 13 members are used to illustrate Ron Unz's AmCon article on how we've hysterically overestimated Latino crime (page 3). The one in the middle facing the camera recalls Maidenform's Sixties ad campaign eg. "I dreamed I danced all night in my Maidenform bra." For him, it would probably be "I dreamed I ran the yard at San Quentin in my Maidenform bra."
Regarding Unz's piece and the counter-intuitive statistics contained therein I can deliver no first-round knockout debunking it. Unz and Razib Khan are not fools and it will require someone with more sophisticated statistical chops than I possess. But how's this for an opening volley? The numbers they've so reverently deployed are close to meaningless.
Crime stats are fatally queered by two major factors. First, the unwillingness of victims and witnesses to come forward in ganged-up areas -- the "don't snitch" phenomenon. It's understandable -- it's not easy to report muggings, rapes etc. if it means that your house will be torched, violence against family members launched etc. This applies in many of the apparently non-violent Latino areas that Unz cites.
Second, there is the police tendency to under-report crimes. Police are under pressure to reduce crime rates. The easiest way to achieve this is to make crimes disappear. There have been scandals about this in New York, Detroit, Atlanta, Philadelphia and other major cities. These have been widely reported. You may want to check Nicholas Stix's piece www.vdare.com/stix/040526_crime.htm for some quick background. Also, just search "police underreporting crime" and see what comes up.
"In contrast, there have only been three homicides in Florence-Firestone neighborhood over the last seven months, so the situation there is much improved."
This begs the other question. Are fewer blacks being killed because there are fewer blacks to kill?
Until you've witnessed some cholos in a lowrider mow down some homeboys, you just don't know what "vibrant" means.
The black people ethnically cleansed whites out of the city of Detroit in the late 1960's. That's over a million people chased out of an entire important industrial city, built by their forefathers from the ground up from a wilderness. It's one of the biggest crimes of the latter part of the last century and it's not even in the history books. The Feds sat back and let it happen.
Would China let Shanghai be ethnically cleansed of the Han people ? I think not. But here, it's completely standard behavior.
The interesting thing is how people still remain patriotic in a country that behaves like this.
I read the story kinda fast. Did it mention any indictments for 'hate crimes'? If so, I missed it.
I love how the Mexican writer, Quinones, quotes the Mexican US Attorney, Hernandez, who blames the ethnic cleansing in South Central on the evil white prison system.
Paraphrasing: "José Killerez was just transferring the evil prison segregation to the streets. He just done did what de white folks taught him to do behind bars, thassall."
I say we take him up on his challenge: let's integrate the blacks and Mexicans in all US prisons and let them have at it.
Ok, a few might die, but once those one or two bad apples are gone, the rest will surely be sitting around campfires, holding hands, rocking back and forth in the firelight singing Kumbayah -- and telling their home boys to do the same.
Why are we killing each other!
/"civil rights" activists
Blacks are so dumb. They think that aligning with the illegals they will become the majority. They should check this out. The New World Order that is taking place right now, was originally named the New Anglo Order. But they renamed it because they knew that that would never fly. That is why our border will never be secure. This is a giant scheme that our presidents have been involved in for some time with the United Nations, to control the money of the world. I think that would leave blacks out in the cold. The Democrats just use the blacks and they are too dumb to see it.
It seems to be a case of parasites fighting over access to the host.
It has occured to me that because of the ongoing demographic changes in LA since 1995, O.J. Simpson (or a black celebrity-athlete like him) might well be convicted if the trial was held in 2010.
That sounds like an eerie reverse version of the Zebra murders. Please refer to the book "Zebra!" on amazon. This affair too has been strangely silenced in the mainstream media.
It would appear that latino gangs are clearing out the criminal niches for themselves, much as the Russian mafia is doing to the Cosa Nostra.
I find the possibility of any such attempts at ethnic cleansing to be extremely disturbing. Which population has the upper hand in this conflict & is it related to IQ? If Hispanics do, I am disturbed by the possibility that the reason more is not done by the elites to prevent illegal immigration is because they secretly wish to aid the Hispanic gangs by supplying them with an endless flood of new members.
Does any data exist on the average IQ of inner-city blacks and how many blacks live in the inner city? The reason I ask is that for over 90 years, it's been assumed that the average African American IQ is about 85, but Jensen and Rushton (citing Charles Murray) have raised the possibility that 90 years of research has been wrong because almost all of the samples have excluded blacks from the inner city and the rural South (few psychologists would dare give an IQ test in the inner-city). If such blacks were included, they speculate that the overall black average in the U.S. might be dragged down to 78:
http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/2010%20Review%20of%20Nisbett.pdf
Of course schooling is so bad in the inner-city and rural south that it probably wouldn't even be fair to give such blacks a standardized test as this would probably be a rare example of where the tests really are culturally biased.
This reminds me of Baghdad, albeit with many fewer deaths. The death rate has gone down because the Mexicans won.
From the LA Times article: "The sentencing of six Florencia 13 gang members to life in prison appears to bring to a close a prolonged and terrifying spate of violence in the Florence-Firestone district allegedly brought on by orders from a prison gang member in solitary confinement 700 miles away."
Apparently ace crime reporter Sam Quinones has an irony deficiency.
This is a very slow form of "ethnic-cleansing" in my opinion. I'm surprised though, that gentrification isn't called "ethnic-cleansing" more often, by the "usual suspects" although this is different from what is happening in South-Central LA.
The idea of outsourcing our mostly minority prison population to China sounds good in some ways but it's a non-starter. The U.S has the world's largest prison population(not just per capita, but the total number), and in some ways I think this could be considered an underexploited human resource. Keeping these criminals locked up costs us over $50 billion a year.
As an animal-rights activist, I've long championed the idea of using incarcerated murderers for medical experiments, many of whom would otherwise be on death-row. Since over 95% of animal rights activists are far-left loonies who think my idea is extremely "racist", I have almost no allies among my fellow activists. I always thought the idea behind incarceration was that you lost certain rights that law-abiding citizens enjoy.
As a compromise, I've suggested the idea of using only white convicted murderers. Still, that wouldn't be "fair", it would violate their human rights, according to AR activists. Maybe I could get feminists interested in this idea, if we only use white males. Or even better, we only use rich white male heterosexual Christian Republican convicted murderers for medical experiments.
It's such a lonely existence fighting for animal rights when you're not on the left, and believe in HBD.
And the blacks are bound to come out as losers in California today and in the U.S.A tomorrow. They are fighting against a population with a much higher IQ and which is far more organised. Besides Hispanic numbers are rising much faster. In the coming Hispanisation of the U.S.A, blacks will lose far more than Whites. Hispanics in the U.S.A are like the Bangladeshis and Pakistanis in the U.K. And wherever these have come across blacks, blacks have always lost as they cannot compete with the Asians in business acumen nor do the S.Asians suffer from pangs of guilt and thus do not hesitate to use violence against uppity blacks if needed. The recent race war in Birmingham occurred primarily due to the inability of blacks to compete with S.Asians economically. The last decade in that neighbourhood saw one black after another black business going bust with the Asians buying up whole streets. Wherever blacks come across brown people they tend to come out as losers.
How come blacks driving out non-blacks isn't called ethnic cleansing?
"Or even better, we only use rich white male heterosexual Christian Republican convicted murderers for medical experiments."
Well, after you've experimented to death the one you find, then what?
Yuppie whites and Jews can use money and laws to drive out blacks out of gentrified areas. Since Mexicans don't have this option, violence may be the only option.
What bothers me about topics like this is it fit into the general or grand narrative of seeing blacks as 'victims'.
We are to assume that nasty 'racist' and chauvinistic Mexican-Americans are using ruthless violence to drive out 'noble' and 'peace-loving' blacks. But, most interracial violence between blacks and hispanics is overwhelmingly black-ON-hispanic. If anything, Hispanic violence against blacks is defensive and reactive.
Because Hispanics fear black crime and violence, some of them use collective violence to discourage blacks from living nearby. The Italian Mafia used similar methods in the NY to keep the blacks at bay.
It's been easier for Hispanics to do this because the liberal grand narrative assumes and pushes the notion of a united people-of-color oppressed and marginalized by evil white people. Also, since Hispanics are seen as a disenfranchised minority, the white and Jewish liberal media are inclined to expose Hispanic 'evils' since one tenet of liberals says "minorities cannot be 'racist'".
But supppose poor whites had done even a fraction of Mexicans in LA are alleged to have done against blacks. We would never hear the end of it.
The LA riots were largely a war between Hispanics and Blacks, with Asians caught in between. But, the media underplayed this as presented it more as a rainbow riot against 'racist' white America. And black violence was interpreted as a form of 'social revolution' than as bigoted black violence against non-blacks.
We still hear about what the Nazis did to Jews on Kristallnacht, but black bigotry and violence during the LA riots have been swept under the rug by the media. Victims of black violence have become non-people. Instead, LA riots came to be remembered by trash movies like Strange Days by that shallow and disgusting Cameron, hypocritical jerk.
"It's such a lonely existence fighting for animal rights when you're not on the left, and believe in HBD."
I'm the same way! Are you also a vegan? I used to be one but gave it up. I'm still pro animal rights though.
I must also agree that inn my personal experience, most animal rights people are totally bonkers, even by left wing standards.
"Look for the label "Incarcerated in China" as a mark of quality."
Fucking brilliant.
The black people ethnically cleansed whites out of the city of Detroit in the late 1960's. That's over a million people chased out of an entire important industrial city, built by their forefathers from the ground up from a wilderness. It's one of the biggest crimes of the latter part of the last century and it's not even in the history books. The Feds sat back and let it happen.
It was a crime and there has been at least one history book written about it. E Michael Jones gives a thorough account of the ethnic cleansing of Polish-American Roman Catholics from Detroit in The Slaughter of Cities: Urban Renewal As Ethnic Cleansing. The Feds didn't sit back and let the blacks ethnical cleanse whites out of their neighborhoods. The WASP/Yankee elite actively used blacks to destroy the city "built by their forefathers from the ground up from a wilderness," in order that the Roman Catholic Ethnic population of Detroit would never realize political power.
In the movie, El Torino, Clint Eastwood plays Detroit's lone remaining Polack.
The WASP/Yankee elite actively used blacks to destroy the city "built by their forefathers from the ground up from a wilderness," in order that the Roman Catholic Ethnic population of Detroit would never realize political power.
WASP/Yankee elite hmmmm. One wonders if the book's author is overlooking certain Scots-Irish elements there.
Wrong Place, Wrong Time: Trauma and Violence in the Lives of Young Black Men
He also started wondering why, exactly, all these young men were ending up in the hospital.
Most of them were believed to be thugs or drug dealers, Rich says. Even among doctors and nurses, the assumption was that these young black men weren't true victims; that they had done something to get themselves shot.
So Rich began taking the time to interview the knife and gunshot victims who came to the hospital. He learned that many of them weren't, in fact, responsible for their own injuries — some had been robbed, others had talked to the wrong girl at a party or been caught in the line of fire while walking home.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122791527
It was a crime and there has been at least one history book written about it. E Michael Jones gives a thorough account of the ethnic cleansing of Polish-American Roman Catholics from Detroit
Jones also covers Chicago, Boston and Philly.
>Rich began taking the time to interview the knife and gunshot victims who came to the hospital. He learned that many of them weren't, in fact, responsible for their own injuries — some had been robbed, others had talked to the wrong girl at a party or been caught in the line of fire while walking home.<
He learned they were innocent by asking them. Brilliant.
"I was just walking along and they started beatin the hell outta me..."
Don't forget, most of the victims of black violence are themselves black. The victimization of non-blacks is spill-over. Any attempt by police to restrain such violence, even (or maybe especially?) to protect blacks and other minorities, is "racist police brutality".
"The first sentence is a blatant lie. Almost every chart that I've seen indicates that violence between blacks and hispanics is overwhelmingly hispanic-ON-black, whether in California or on a national scale."
This may be true when it comes to major organized drug gang violence, but if we are talking about one-on-one violence, most of the violence is black-on-hispanic. I've seen it on street level all my life. HIspanics fear blacks, not the other way around. Blacks ONLY fear Hispanics when outnumbered, like a bear fears a large pack of wolves.
When hispanics vastly outnumber blacks, they may have the upperhand. But, in a community that is 50/50 black and Hispanic, it will be the hispanics who will be scared. Just look at the physical difference between a big black guy and a short stubby mexican guy. No contest. I went to a mixed-race school in the NY area. Blacks always whupped Hispanic ass.
"Don't forget, most of the victims of black violence are themselves black."
ONLY because most blacks live with other blacks. This is true of all peoples. Most white crime is white on white, most Hispanic crime is Hispanic on Hispanic, most Asian crime is Asian on Asian.
But, in a mixed-race community, a lot of blacks will prefer to predate on the weaker races than on fellow blacks. If you're a black mugger, would you rather attack a short Mexican or Vietnamese or a big black guy?
Of course, there is a lot of black on black violence even in mixed race communities, but this is because tough guys generally fight other tough guys for king-of-the-hill spot. Since non-blacks dare not challenge blacks for alpha-male status, the fight usually ends up being between tough blacks vs tough black guys.
Boxing is mostly men beating up other men, not men beating up other women. Women don't stand a chance in the male world of boxing and so they don't even dare participate. Even so, much of social violence is male-on-female.
So, we must differentiate the kinds of violence. When it comes to violence-for-alpha-maledom, it is indeed mostly black male on black male. But, when it comes to robbery, rape, and etc, black criminals prefer easier non-black victims IF they were given the chance to predate on non-blacks.
Of course, many blacks don't have this chance since most non-blacks do everything possible to live outside predominantly black areas. For damn good reason!!
>These "brown people" you speak of would be busy using their higher IQ and organizational skills to build up their own countries, wouldn't they?<
What for? They get free health care, free education, various forms of welfare and first dibs on all blue-collar jobs up here.
Maybe they are smarter than we think.
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