In the first round of the NBA draft last week, we saw the same pattern as we've seen over the last decade in the NBA: a large majority of the top white guys grew up in foreign countries. Six of the seven white guys who went in the first round were from foreign countries. Jimmer Fredette of BYU, the collegiate scoring champ and player of the year, went 10th, winding up in Sacramento, while three overseas whites went ahead of him in the top 10.
Similarly, of the nine active white players who are in the NBA top 50 in career win shares, eight grew up abroad.
Similarly, of the nine active white players who are in the NBA top 50 in career win shares, eight grew up abroad.
On the other hand, in the second (and last) round, four American whites (Kyle Singler, John Leuer, Josh Harrellson, and John Diebler) were picked versus three foreign whites. So, overall, out of the 14 whites drafted, nine were foreign and five were American.
This is a pattern that needs some explanation.
This is a pattern that needs some explanation.
One short term reason for the 2011 draft is the Nowitzki Effect. A foreign white was the Finals MVP, so a couple of weeks later, lots of teams are looking for foreign whites.
But, long term, I can see two plausible explanations for this pattern: the first would be that star basketball players are merely genetic freaks with culture having no effect So, because there are more whites outside the U.S., there are more white genetic freaks from outside the U.S.
The second is that we are witnessing a classic example of disparate impact discrimination against whites within U.S. basketball.
But, long term, I can see two plausible explanations for this pattern: the first would be that star basketball players are merely genetic freaks with culture having no effect So, because there are more whites outside the U.S., there are more white genetic freaks from outside the U.S.
The second is that we are witnessing a classic example of disparate impact discrimination against whites within U.S. basketball.
It's a nature-nurture question. How important is it for NBA stardom that there are more white guys outside the U.S. versus how important is that U.S. culture is more basketball-centric?
One way to think about this is to look at the substantial success in the NBA of people from the two most basketball-centric cultures in Europe: ex-Yugoslavia. For example, out of the nine foreign whites drafted in 2011, four were from the ex-Yugoslavian republics, two from Lithuania, one from next-door Latvia, one from Turkey, and one from the Czech republic.
Ex-Yugoslavia and Lithuania have been outstanding at basketball as far back as I can recall. They have been highly over-represented, which suggests that nurture plays a role (although, those two places are pretty tall on average, which might be why they took to basketball so avidly).
In contrast, much of the Europe isn't well represented in the NBA: the British Isles (the only NBA player I can think of was John Amaechi, but he was awful, although that was because he was gay and hated sports), France (Tony Parker being the exception that validate the tendency -- his father was a black American playing ball professionally in Europe), the Low Countries (7'4" Rik Smits being the best illustration of sheer height triumphing over a culture's lack of basketball orientation), Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Scandinavia, etc.
Ex-Yugoslavia and Lithuania have been outstanding at basketball as far back as I can recall. They have been highly over-represented, which suggests that nurture plays a role (although, those two places are pretty tall on average, which might be why they took to basketball so avidly).
In contrast, much of the Europe isn't well represented in the NBA: the British Isles (the only NBA player I can think of was John Amaechi, but he was awful, although that was because he was gay and hated sports), France (Tony Parker being the exception that validate the tendency -- his father was a black American playing ball professionally in Europe), the Low Countries (7'4" Rik Smits being the best illustration of sheer height triumphing over a culture's lack of basketball orientation), Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Scandinavia, etc.
In contrast, the Mediterranean countries have been crazy about basketball for a generation or two, although they weren't well represented in the NBA because they weren't that tall until the last couple of decades and because their leagues could pay decent money, especially Italy's league, to keep talent close to home. Ex-Yugoslavia and Lithuania were tall, crazy for basketball, and poor, so they;ve been disproportionately represented in the NBA.
Taking all that into account, my expectation would be that there would be about as many top white Americans as top white foreigners. There used to be, but there haven't been for a decade or more. This suggests that tall white guys in America (e.g., 6-9" John Isner, now playing at Wimbledon) have been turning against basketball.
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48 comments:
THIS is why young American white boys don't play basketball anymore.
Nothing more, nothing less.
[Sorry, Twoof.]
What about Gheorghe Mureşan?
The Netherlands also produced Swen Nater, though he did attend high school in California.
Do the Baltics and the Balkans have anything else in common, which might explain this? I've heard "Dinaric" blood was an advantage in some sports, but Lithuania is outside that racial zone, right?
I think Fredette may surprise a few skeptics as well as disappoint a few people in Utah. He'll probably help Sacramento at the gate as well; hard not to see that as deliberately arranged behind the scenes by the NBA.
Steve,
The NBA has a pretty useful list of "international" players on its official site. The list is updated each season based on opening-day rosters.
I'll take a quick run through the list for you. I'll skip countries that obviously don't produce white players. Some players from mostly white countries aren't white themselves; I'll give you the rundown on those as well.
Argentina: All four are white.
Australia: 2 out of 3 white. David Andersen also holds a Danish passport. Andrew Bogut is the son of Croatian immigrants. Patrick Mills is an Indigenous Australian, with one parent from each of the two main subgroups in that community (Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders).
Brazil: Tiago Splitter is clearly white. Anderson Varejão may wear his hair in an Afro style, but he looks to be primarily white if not totally so. The other two (Nenê and Leandro Barbosa) are black.
Canada: Nash is the only white among the four listed. (See below for a fifth not on the list.)
France: All of the league's French players are black. (Parker has a white mother, as does Joakim Noah—but Noah isn't on the list for a reason you'll find out below.)
Georgia (as in former USSR): Zaza Pachulia
Germany: Dirk is the only German-born player in the league, but there's another white in the league who represents Germany internationally, as you'll see below.
Iran: Hamed Haddadi
Israel: Omri Casspi
Italy: All three are white.
Latvia: Andris Biedrins
Lithuania: All three are white. Two of them played college ball in the US—Linas Kleiza at Missouri and Darius Songaila at Wake Forest.
Mexico: Eduardo Nájera looks heavily if not totally Spanish. He's from Northern Mexico (Chihuahua city, to be exact), and played college ball at Oklahoma.
Montenegro: Nikola Pekovic
Netherlands: Neither of the two on the list are white, although both were born in the Netherlands. Francisco Elson is black and of Surinamese descent. Dan Gadzuric is mixed—black father and Serbian mother. (Elson played at Cal, Gadzuric at UCLA.)
Poland: Marcin Gortat
Puerto Rico: Hard to tell where either of the players, Carlos Arroyo or J. J. Barea, fits in the spectrum. They do seem to be more mixed than, say, Nájera, but not as much as Noah or Gadzuric.
Serbia: All four white.
Slovenia: All three white.
Spain: All four white.
Sweden: Jonas Jerebko. His father is an American who played professionally in Sweden and settled there.
Switzerland: Thabo Sefolosha is mixed—mother a well-known (white) Swiss painter, father a black South African.
Turkey: All five white.
Ukraine: Kyrylo Fesenko
Venezuela: Greivis Vásquez (who played at Maryland) appears to be mostly if not completely white, though some pictures I've seen of him make me wonder.
Note that the league defines "international" as players born outside the 50 states and DC—Puerto Ricans and Virgin Islanders are classified as "international" even though they're US citizens by birth. That's why Joakim Noah isn't on the NBA's international list; he was born in New York City and spent most of his youth in the US. There are a few other US-born whites I know of in the NBA who represent other countries internationally:
Chris Kaman—Born in Grand Rapids and raised in its suburbs; represents Germany by virtue of a German grandparent.
Kosta Koufos—Born and raised in Canton, Ohio, but represents Greece. Both parents are Greek immigrants..
Andy Rautins—Born in Syracuse and raised in that area, but represents Canada, where he's coached by his father (Leo Rautins, former Cuse star and NBA player).
I think that one of the reasons why Europeans are more likely to play basketball than white Americans is that the sport has become associated with black criminality in the United States. Since there are fewer blacks in Europe, basketball was less likely to be associated with crime over there. In other words, basketball is seen as a thug sport in the United States but not in Europe.
I don't really follow Basketball, but there is a professional league here in Germany which attracts quite a number of players from abroad, including many from the United States. Quite a number of these players are white (click on the English sounding names):
http://www.beko-bbl.de/teams/spieler-von-a-z.html
If you read the story of Josh Harrellson you wonder why there are any white guys in the NBA.
http://www.nj.com/college-basketball/index.ssf/2011/03/politi_kentuckys_josh_harrellson_is_making_a_big_impression_in_ncaa_tournament.html
Two separate coaching staffs at Kentucky basically dared this guy to quit, even as recently as December. Now he's drafted in the 2nd round. I guess what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
spain has plenty of good basketball players.
argentina also has good white players currently in the NBA.
IMO, the college system and playing with the new generation of arrogant black players have not been good for young whitey's self esteem--even tho these new generation of bigger, stronger, faster black players lack fundamental skills like shooting and a back-to-the-basket game that their predecessors had.
Add that to the fact that gentlemen no longer play basketball since it became football without the padding.
"This is a pattern that needs some explanation."
Oh Steve would you please stop this and get real?
There IS no disparate impact, there is white disengagement from anything 365Black.
Sports is combat. From Day Dot, white boys are taught to give in to blacks, humor them, run away, because of what Anonymous #1 linked to.
Basketball is 365Black. It's a garbage sport played by garbage people. Probably more white boys are playing Ultimate Frisbee than b-ball nowadays. Or LaCrosse.
Blacks across the country are attacking whites and instead your old-man middle-aged blog highlights ladies rooms in firehouses.
I'm fascinated by how much "bandwagon" effects influence NBA draft position. During the Western Conference finals this year, Serge Ibaka, the first Congolese NBA player, played fairly well. So naturally in this draft one player from the Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire) was taken in the lottery and another player from the Republic of Congo (Congo-Brazzaville) was taken in the late second round.
What parent wants to immerse their kid in the culture that has grown up around basketball today?
The NBA has overplayed it's hand in trying to tap into the naivete and natural rebelliousness of young kids.
Basketball has become a class marker like full body tats. It's not what the mass of middle class anything aspires to - unless they can play it in the safety of some suburban enclave.
Are you still beating this dead horse, Sailer? Seriously, how many times have you pondered this?
Steve,
You say that whites have turned against basketball as if they were high-achievers who have simply moved on to something else. The fact is that white gentile culture has declined for decades now and this has manifested itself in a variety of ways. Basketball is just one small piece of the story.
American whites want to avoid the violent, criminal nature of young blacks. So they avoid basketball. European whites can enjoy basketball without having to surround themselves with such dangerous people.
I played basketball. At lower levels it was fun. By high school the team was almost all black and I had nothing in common with my teammates and no desire to hang out with them. Less fun. And it gets really old to be constantly called "white boy" in an aggressive, violent tone -- by both opponents and teammates.
Also played baseball. The few black guys on our baseball team were treated 100x better than me and the other white guy on the basketball team.
It's not just basketball. I see it in my own suburban area. The white kids are taking up lacrosse, soccer, golf, track, hockey and leaving basketball, football, baseball. White parents make decisions, consciously or not, about what sport their kid's gonna play based on who else is playing it. But that just makes sense, right?
I remember Steve Sailer theorizing that bullying might be what is keeping white players away from basketball.
One thing I have noticed over the years is that basketball culture is intensely hostile to white people. Funny thing is that ESPN hires a lot of racist blacks to cover basketball.
Just listen to this ugly, fat faced goof called Vincent Thomas. Just Google Do You Still Hate Duke? and check out what he wrote for Slam Online.
Here are some select quotes--
My Pops was a Georgetown fan because, like many of his cronies, he was enamored with John Thompson the Fearless and Defiant Black Leader....
....So, still in middle school, I picked up the Sports Illustrated college basketball preview. “Here Come The Hot Shots” was the title. It had Billy Owens dunking on the cover. That freshmen class featured ‘Zo, Owens, the great Chris Jackson … and Christian Laettner.
(he then goes on to refer to the school Laettner went to as smarmy and elitist and calls Laettner "just some" prep school "buster".)
And, yeah, I’m gonna go ahead and admit it: I thought America’s love affair with Duke — from both the fans and the media — had a conspicuous racial component. “Come on preppy, hard-working white guys that play the game the right way! Beat those black guys!” I even convinced myself that Coach K recruited stereotypes to perpetuate an image of being an anti-”black black” program. A squad full of white dudes and a few whitewashed black guys.
...I still had this overwhelming feeling that this was an aristocratic institution. It was like Duke was a discriminating country club. As a teenager, I almost came to blows with my only friend or associate that had the audacity to be a Duke fan … from the hood. “You sellout,” I shouted. “What? You wanna throw Nelson Mandela back in prison, too?!” Crazy. But that’s how I was on it back then. If you rooted for Duke, you were like a pro-apartheid Afrikaan, to me.
And now? I mean, can you really gin up authentic hate, rage, antipathy and rancor for that squad Duke trotted out? It was a mediocre starting lineup and bench full of lead-foot Opies. My younger brother and I scanned that bench and couldn’t stop laughing. It was like Krzyzewski was being a prankster or something. That’s when Scottie Reynolds and Dante Cunningham walloped them into glum, sheepish submission. And I watched it all without even the slightest sense of vindication. That’s when I asked myself, “Do you still hate Duke?” I guess not."
Of course, those white "jokes" ended up winning the championship the very next year in 2010 (Duke started three white players that year and had several white players coming off the bench). Bet this Vincent Thomas dork feels like a foolish moron now. But watching this slowed brained chump try to write a column is like watching the Special Olympics. You just end up pitying him.
Vincent Thomas now ooks and eeks for ESPN, and continues to look like that black boy from Saturday Night Live.
As for the intense racist anger many blacks and liberal whites feel about white players, I can see why white players stop playing the game in high school. I feel like I'm selling my people out when I just watch the game on TV. Imagine playing a game with these racist ghetto chumps in front of a crowd of white liberal pussies. Sure, you can toughen up and tolerate it, but it makes more sense to play another sport that has fewer blacks.
Yeah, the threat of getting in a fistfight is a BRILLIANT reason to forego a potential a 6 year 72 million contract.
Don't forget, too, that David Stern is considered among the best/most sophisticated commissioners out there (admittedly, there's a low bar...). His emphasis on developing the NBA outside of the U.S. could be a factor; think international TV distribution, product sales, etc.
I've read that the tallest people in the world are the people of the Dinaric Alps (former Yugoslavia). By the way, many other mountanous areas (the Caucasus, the Pyrinees, the Andes, the Himalayas, Tibet, Afghanistan) produce short people. So the mountainous nature of the Balkans is probably not the cuase. I wonder if the Romans, who ran Illyria for centuries, ever wrote anything about the locals' height. Just curious about how persistent this trait of theirs is.
OT: Nick Paumgarten's in-depth study of online dating in the New Yorker confirms every single prediction from evolutionary psychology about how the sexes behave:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/07/04/110704fa_fact_paumgarten?printable=true
eh, don't want to get into it this too much right now, but the draft produces some hard to explain weirdness these days. in round 2 you had teams drafting african africans who were so obscure the experts didn't know who they were. one team drafted an african who was averaging 0 points per game in some foreign league.
meanwhile good NCAA players who are way, way better than these random international nobodies, were not drafted. the undrafted guys get to be free agents which can often be better than being drafted by a team where they don't fit in well, but it's a head scratcher.
seems like many teams are deliberately taking foreign players who will never be good enough to play a single NBA game, rather than take proven americans who would at least average 12 minutes and 3 or 4 points.
"Yeah, the threat of getting in a fistfight is a BRILLIANT reason to forego a potential a 6 year 72 million contract."
Which you then multiply by the ratio of number of NBA player to total number of scholastic and collegiate players in the world. That gives you the probability-adjusted payout, which ends up being, what, a few pennies?
"OT: Nick Paumgarten's in-depth study of online dating in the New Yorker confirms every single prediction from evolutionary psychology about how the sexes behave:"
So evolution's losers, who don't marry their high school sweethearts and start pumping out kids instantly, are the one's who act the way evolutionary psychology predicts?
Ouch! Sucks for evolutionary psychology! It turns out they were researching the fringes of behavior!
Jimmer and Kyle Singler failed probability science.
I was raised in a racially diverse/integrated basketball hotbed. I realize now that the reason I didn't experience the anti-white fury of blacks was b/c we had all literally been friends since kindergarten. The first time I experienced it was in college (in the very same town, actually). I subsequently encountered younger kids from my hometown (typically younger brothers of friends) who were just beginning to avoid basketball b/c of the blacks. That would have been the early 90's.
You can choose your terms (fear, distaste, whatever) and your anecdotal evidence may vary, but it's hard to believe that anyone who has any experience in this area can deny the obvious. Ignore it, yes. But, not deny it.
I've tended to blame modern liberalism (rather than anything innate in blacks' nature), but I find it increasingly difficult.
It seems the black athletic edge in basketball is monumental at heights shorter than 6'6". There's no point debating it.
What we are talking about are the tall guys. Every white guy you referenced is a forward or center. Rubio from Spain is a short-ish guard, but the Spanish are swarthy and he's a freak.
Maybe European guys are simply taller than white American guys. Most of the white Europeans you reference are German, Polish, eastern bloc, etc, whereas most white Americans are English or Irish stock.
Scandinavian men are tall on average, but I'm not aware of any Swedish or Norwegian man, living or dead, that is 6'10".
"Jimmer and Kyle Singler failed probability science."
Mighta failed physics, too. I wonder if they just float in the ether, then? After all, gravity's a physical force...
Yeah, the threat of getting in a fistfight is a BRILLIANT reason to forego a potential a 6 year 72 million contract.
Given that the fulcrum of the judo throw was roughly the base of White Bread's neck, I'd say that the kid is lucky not to be a quadraplegic.
It seems the black athletic edge in basketball is monumental at heights shorter than 6'6". There's no point debating it.
If you mean the edge they are given by the NBA in the draft, sure. I'm not sure that's based on anything tangible though. Is Kyrie Irving actually a much better guard than Fredette? Time will tell, but based on their college careers I can't see why Irving was picked no 1.
I am not sold on Steve's argument that whites in foreign countries excel in the NBA because they dont have to compete with blacks.If that were true, why dont more whites who play soccer in the USA excel in the Premier League and Serie A.There is not a suburb in the US where there are not lots of whites playing soccer
If there's not already a "law", we can make one now. White American players have a handicap which can be expressed in inches (of height). That is, a white American has to be at least x inches taller than a similarly skilled black to be rated as equal in the NBA's eyes.
If Fredette was some amount taller than he is, and some amount taller than Kyrie Irving, he'd have gone first or maybe second in the draft. What is that amount? About four inches I think.
Based on Galactic Overlord's breakdown, it's clear that having ancestors who were adapted to hilly or mountainous places is a big factor.
That also correlates with a heavier reliance on pastoralism, once the farmers took all the good land at lower elevation.
Why so few with ancestors from England, France, Germany, Russia, Ukraine, etc.? Yet there's a Georgian, a Persian, an Israeli, lots of Turks, a Greek, an etc.
It looks like these ethnic groups do well even when they move to the Netherlands, Australia, and so on. So it may not be so much a nurture effect of their ancestral environment, but how it shaped their genes.
I have no clue what makes a person good a basketball other than height, which we've already seen is probably not the main factor for why some whites rather than others make it big-time.
But it's worth looking at what about herders dwelling at higher elevation would make them better at basketball. They have a pronounced culture of honor and revenge, and they don't back down even over small things. Maybe that kind of fierce independence makes them less likely to get bullied on the court, where it's easier than in other sports to get isolated from your teammates and have to rely on yourself.
You guys might be on to something regarding the cultural milieu. I have noticed that foreign born whites do seem less intimidated by the posturing of American born blacks in sports like basketball and boxing, particularly if they come from a poorer country like Argentina, Brazil, or the former Eastern bloc countries. It's often amusing in boxing in particular, because guys from the working class environs in Europe and South America seem genuinely baffled by why posturing is supposed to make them pee their pants in fear, and the black dudes seem equally baffled as to why it isn't working on European or South American whites when it works on American whites like clockwork.
Steve what is the point of these kind of discussion if you're not going to discuss the height of the players involved?
How many of these guys are 6'7 and over? 'Cause in that case we're talking about genetic freaks. Maybe you could name all the white guys> 6'7" playing ANY Sport other Pro Sport than BB? Like uh, and then there's who'it.
If you're 7'2" and can walk and chew gum at the same time you're an NBA prospect.
Lots of BB players from Croatia and Estonia because these two countries have a lot of freakishly large people.
there was almost no discussion about this, because like always, the NBA is now strictly about lebron james, lebron james, lebron james, and the 2011 finals were not about the mavericks winning but the heat losing.
but nowitzki totally outplayed bryant, durant, wade, and james, head to head, and back to back to back. that was easily one of the greatest NBA playoff performances of all-time. en route to the title, he broke the NBA record for consecutive free throws made.
imagine if nowitzki had played with 3 other hall of fame players in their prime the way bird did. the mavericks would have like 4 titles by now. nowitzki is 1 of only 4 players in NBA history to average over 25 points and 10 rebounds a game in the playoffs. contrary to the tremendous abuse he took over the last 10 years in the US sports media, he was never the reason the mavericks couldn't win. in fact he just won the title over james, wade, and bosh, and the second best player on his team was jason terry. (note bill simmons pointed out much of this as well).
in reality, for a while now, the biggest problem with the mavericks was erick dampier. as soon as the mavericks replaced him, they won the title. that bascially zero basketball analysts could see this made me really call into question their expertise. by 2009, erick dampier, a starter, was often scoring 0 points per game in the playoffs, while nowitzki was routinely scoring over 30. yet it was always said to be dirk's fault when the mavericks lost a close playoff game by 3 or 4 points. what if garbage dampier had scored just 2 buckets a game?
some things never change though. erick dampier scored 0 points per game for the heat, keeping his playoff scoring average over the last couple years intact.
Early puberty onset by Blacks eliminates many White Americans in integrated areas (explaining why Whitopia graduates are the only ones making it to the highest level).
Also, Euro leagues discriminate in the favor of its people: limiting foreign players on their squads.
Meanwhile, American feeder leagues (i.e. college ball) discriminate AGAINST Whites, due to affirmative action.
It all adds up to severe under-representation.
"Given that the fulcrum of the judo throw was roughly the base of White Bread's neck, I'd say that the kid is lucky not to be a quadraplegic."
I think you watch too many late-night movies on cable.
"Is Kyrie Irving actually a much better guard than Fredette? Time will tell, but based on their college careers I can't see why Irving was picked no 1."
Irving is 19, Jimmer is 22. If IRving stayed in college until he was senior, he would have been so dominant they would have had to change the rules.
"and the black dudes seem equally baffled as to why it isn't working on European or South American whites when it works on American whites like clockwork."
Dude, you're speaking like you have a little experience there.
Forgot to add Russia in my breakdown. Both white—Andrei Kirilenko (who took out US citizenship last year) is 6-9, Timofey Mozgov is 7-1.
"...most white Americans are English or Irish stock."
Wrong. Germans have been by far the biggest white ethnic group in the United States for over a century. About as many Americans have a German ancestor as have a Irish or English ancestor combined.
To the anonymous commenter who remarked on the height of these players:
Here's the whole list of non-US whites (or at least mostly-whites) on 2010 opening day rosters under 6-7:
Carlos Delfino (6-6, Argentina)
Manu Ginóbili (6-6, Argentina)
Steve Nash (6-3, South Africa-born Canadian; Welsh mother and English father)
Andy Rautins (6-5, Canada). Not on the NBA's international list because he was born and raised in the US. Lithuanian descent.
Goran Dragic (6-4, Slovenia)
Beno Udrih (6-3, Slovenia)
José Calderón (6-3, Spain)
Rudy Fernández (6-6, Spain)
Greivis Vásquez (6-6, Venezuela)
If Carlos Arroyo and J. J. Barea are counted as white, add two more; Arroyo is 6-2 and Barea is listed at 6-0 but is widely thought to be noticeably shorter.
Ricky Rubio is currently listed at 6-4.
In short: The bulk of non-US whites in the NBA are clearly at least 6-7 (as listed), and many of the others are pretty close to that height.
BTW, I also forgot to throw in the UK in my original rundown. All three on the NBA international list are black. Kelenna Azubuike is of Nigerian origin though born in London; he actually does not have British citizenship. Pops Mensah-Bonsu is of Ghanaian descent and also born in London. Luol Deng was born in what will soon be the independent country of Southern Sudan. After escaping the civil war there, his family eventually settled in London, and Deng is now naturalized in the UK. Another UK-born player, Ben Gordon (also black), is not on the NBA international list; he has lived in the US from infancy. All four played college ball in the US.
Dude, you're speaking like you have a little experience there.
No, I just assume most white guys they meet at home act that way or they wouldn't keep doing it. I can vividly remember Bernard Hopkins taunting Joe Calzaghe, going on and on " I will never lose to a white boy " and Calzaghe just standing there looking puzzled as to why that was supposed to intimidate him. I'm guessing that was the first white boy that didn't respond the way Hopkins wanted and so he kept repeating himself like he was trying to get the cadence just right. You can watch the exchange on Youtube.
David Stern is an idiot. He's failed absolutely to develop the NBA into anything resembling money for the league. All those Kobe shirts in China are run off predictably by pirates (who are part of the crony capitalist system). No TV revenue, no affiliate league, no nothing out of China. Or Europe for that matter. That's why the NBA is in lock-out. Like the NFL it has no outside revenues other than US-based TV, tickets, and merchandise. None of which has grown to cover owners debt service (many borrowed against their teams). See also the Mets and the Wilpon family. Or Los Dodgers filing for bankruptcy (I wrote that their problem was demographics, poor Mexicans don't buy real pricey season tickets and lots of merchandise, instead they beat White fans into comas).
Basketball is a sport for Black thugs in the US. Thats what it is, and what it will remain. If you are a talented White guy who is tall, its easier to be a QB, or a pitcher, and not deal with unrelenting hostility from team-mates, coaches, fans, and the like. Basketball belongs to Alan Iverson, LeBron James, and Ron Artest. Thats what league owners, coaches, players, and fans want.
About Hopkins, Kelly Pavlik (an white american) had the talent to beat him. I think he was a favorite before their match. But Kelly was unprofessional IMO in a way typical to the white american boxers. Everyone kept telling him that his small town coach couldn`t teach him anymore more stuff in particular counter punching and he needs to move on. But of course Pavlik was too loyal for his mentor. Needles to say Hopkins fought a tactical fight using Pavlik`s weaknesses and won (on points).
Then there was Baby Joe Mesi who tried to fight like Marciano or Lamotta and ended with brain damage. And always if there is some
guy who tries to fight like Tyson, it`s an american white guy.
About Hopkins, Kelly Pavlik (an white american) had the talent to beat him.
I didn't see the fight but i'll assume you are probably right, Pavlik beat Taylor twice, and Taylor beat Hopkins twice, so Pavlik with his power should have knocked out Hopkins, but Hopkins had a far superior trainer I'm guessing, particularly if he was still with Freddie Roach. Additionally, Pavlik apparently has a drinking problem, so that may have had something to do with it as well.
"and the black dudes seem equally baffled as to why it isn't working on European or South American whites when it works on American whites like clockwork."
Dude, you're speaking like you have a little experience there.
Well, Truth, I'm talking from experience. I flatly refuse to put up with any BS from blacks and I would literally rather die than take lifetime crap from blacks the way US whites have for the past forty years. You don't know anything about me, feller, but believe me, for someone who spent his entire young life hating "the nazis," for me to now, more or less, take their side says something. (I mean, I don't consider myself one, but I will no longer hold it against anyone who is.)
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