A few random observations:
- This evil bastard is one cold-blooded, rational Northern European. I'm reminded of an underlying tragic theme of Tolkien's Lord of the Rings that stems from Tolkien's combat experience on the Somme in the Great War: all of this Northern European efficiency can go terribly wrong when it turns to organized killing, at which Northern Europeans are the champs. This terrorist is the kind of rationalist who estimates the probability of failure of the various steps in his planning, like a 30% chance of getting caught while buying fertilizer to make his bomb. (It's a good thing that Finnish sniper Simho Hayha who killed, one at a time, 505 armed Russian soldiers in 1939-1940 wasn't an evil bastard or there could have been thousands of dead children.)
- For example, throughout his lengthy planning phase, he maintained a public persona online of being anti-Islamic but non-violent and, indeed, rather philosophical. Psychologically, that must be very hard to do. For the rest of us, this guy's ability to play a double game of being reasonable on the surface while homicidal underneath is of course going to be incredibly destructive of all anti-multicultural online dissent.
- The killer was, perhaps not surprisingly, a juicer. His 1500-page secret document has details of his various steroid cycles. Whether he came up with the idea of killing a bunch of children after he started on steroids, or whether he deliberately chose to use steroids to keep up his will power against attacks of angst, I can't say.
Or maybe the common link between his steroid use and his terrible crime is vanity.
- The killer was, perhaps not surprisingly, a juicer. His 1500-page secret document has details of his various steroid cycles. Whether he came up with the idea of killing a bunch of children after he started on steroids, or whether he deliberately chose to use steroids to keep up his will power against attacks of angst, I can't say.
When initiating the “chemical [fertilizer for his bomb] acquirement phase”, in end November/early December, I must admit I was filled with some angst. This was after all a critical phase, perhaps the most dangerous of all phases. If I messed this phase up, by being flagged, reported to the authorities etc. I would be neutralized before I could finalize my operation. Even when taking all possible precautions; I estimate it is a 30% chance of being reported to the system protectors at the national intelligence agency during this phase.
My concerns and angst relating to this phase impacted my motivation, to a point where I had to initiate specific counter-measures to reverse the loss of morale and motivation. I decided that the correct approach to reversing it was to initiate another DBOL steroid cycle and intensify my strength training. I also spent some time locating and downloading some new inspirational music. A lot of new vocal trance tracks and some inspirational music by Helene Bøksle. In addition; I decided I would allow myself to play the newly launched expansion: World of Warcraft – Cataclysm. The combination of these three counter measures, in addition to my 3 weekly indoctrination/meditation walks, resulted in my morale and motivation again peaking.
Or maybe the common link between his steroid use and his terrible crime is vanity.
- Ideologically, he's a neocon on steroids. From the Jerusalem Post:
'Norway attack suspect had anti-Muslim, pro-Israel views'By BEN HARTMAN
07/24/2011 18:37
1,500 page manifesto credited to Breivik, accused of killing spree, lays out worldview including extreme screed of Islamophobia, far-right Zionism.
Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian who killed nearly 100 people in a combined terror attack Friday that included car bombings in Oslo and a shooting rampage at an island summer camp, held fiercely anti-Islamic and pro-Israel views, according to a 1,500 page manifesto he uploaded before his killing spree Friday.
In the 1,500-page tome, which mentions Israel 359 times and “Jews” 324 times, Breivik lays out his worldview, which includes an extreme, bizarre and rambling screed of Islamophobia, far-right Zionism and venomous attacks on Marxism and multi-culturalism.
- In terms of personality, he seems somewhat less like the usual comparison, Timothy McVeigh (although they are both examples of how right wing white male terrorists, while less numerous, might be more deadly on average due to higher competence levels), and more like the highly intelligent, cold-blooded leftwing assassin of Pym Fortuyn, Volkert van der Graaf, whose story has disappeared down the memory hole after the European press put out a cover story that he was an animal rights nut. His court testimony explained that his chief cause for murdering the potential prime minister was to halt immigration restrictionism. This had been a topic of obsessive coverage in the European respectable press, climaxing the day before the murder. A two weeks hate had been conducted throughout Europe against Le Pen's candidacy in the French Presidential election the day before the murder. In general, elite reaction in Europe to Fortuyn's murder was that this political outsider more or less had it coming.
- Neither this guy nor Fortuyn's killer seemed terribly crazy, just evil.
- I was reading up awhile ago on Norway's summer camp-style prisons and maximum 21-year sentences for murder. Hopefully, Norway's also got a non-summer camp to send this guy to on, say, the north coast of Spitzbergen, and that the 21-year max is per murder, not overall.
- Neither this guy nor Fortuyn's killer seemed terribly crazy, just evil.
- I was reading up awhile ago on Norway's summer camp-style prisons and maximum 21-year sentences for murder. Hopefully, Norway's also got a non-summer camp to send this guy to on, say, the north coast of Spitzbergen, and that the 21-year max is per murder, not overall.
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190 comments:
Venomous attacks on Marxism?
Heavens, you kill 100 million people and you have to endure "venomous" attacks? How unfair!
I agree this atrocity comprises the fight against multiculturalism. The 1st article I read mentioned his eye and hair color twice.
You really have it in for neocons. maybe he was a paleo or a neo isolationist.
From watching the video attributed to him, he seemed to endorse isolationist sentiments, explicitly rejecting imperialism. Although he was also very pro-crusader and referred to his "movement" as a new crusade.
By all accounts he seems to be a fairly intelligent person. He's also good looking and was fairly well off. He owned his own small business.
In other words, the sort of person who is the bed-rock of the modern Western state. If he's a one-off, no problem. If he reflects a trend among even a small percentage of his demographic, the modern Western state cannot survive.
Well, I think it's always important to distinguish between mere symptoms and their ultimate underlying causes...
For example, based on a casual examination of that Oslo guy's writings, it seems reasonable to regard him as being an extended phenotype of that fanatically anti-Islamic Fjordman fellow (who amusingly enough often shows up on rightwing blogs to denounce them for their "extremism"). But looking a bit more deeply, I think it's also obvious that the Fjordman crowd themselves are merely extended phenotypes of David Horowitz and his friends, whose money and media dominate the discourse. Similarly, the Scandinavian multiculturalists whose activities over the years had so riled up the Oslo guy almost certainly represent extended phenotypes created by Hollywood and its dominant belief system over the last few decades. Therefore, in crude terms, a Neocon rampage-killer slaughtered scores of Left-Liberals, thereby acting out the sort of righting revenge-fantasy periodically touted by America's more violent "conservative" talk-radio hosts.
The whole situation contains many ironies. While David Horowitz and his Hollywood opponents are exchanging snide remarks or casual banter at the endless West LA cocktail parties they mutually frequent, halfway around the world their gullible proxies are meanwhile treating each other in far grislier fashion, while remaining totally unaware of the true causes of all their local misfortunes. Obviously, these former antagonists have a much more pleasant lifestyle than do the latter ones, thereby underscoring the considerable advantages which accrue to groups which are highly skilled in extending their ideological phenotypes, and applying "action at a distance."
An important conclusion to be drawn from this unfortunate incident is the tremendous good judgment displayed by the PRC leadership in preventing foreigners from gaining domination over their own electronic media. This is certainly one of the many reasons it seems increasingly likely that China will soon become the primary inheritor of worldwide human civilization.
Given his sympathies for the Serbs and the Crusades, I'd say closer to "Chronicles on steroids"
It's interesting that there does not seem to be anything about HBD in his writings. He seems to have been a reader of various right-wing blogs, but not Sailer's. He's a strict "culturalist", and his views are almost politically correct in the current European climate where Merkel, Sarkozy, and Cameron have all condemned multiculturalism.
In his "manifesto", he espouses antiracism on several occasions, and apparently he spent time on neo-Nazi sites arguing against anti-Semitism. He supports gay rights. He did not target immigrants in his attacks. It seems that even mass-murdering lunatics are, by and large, politically correct in their views in Scandinavia.
Of course it's possible that he's hiding his real racialist, white nationalist, reactionary agenda for tactical reasons, to make his views more palatable to the masses, but how could the masses then learn about those views?
Good thing Steve that the perpetrator wasn't a Muslim extremist, or otherwise we would've heard about it the moment the news broke out on every single HBD blog for days on end, with an endless stream of hysterical denunciations coming from the white nationalist camp. Thank god the perp was one of you guys. Clearly that's allowed everyone to maintain their cool and respond so much more rationally to this entire ordeal.
Steve Sailer, I remember you were rather worked up over the Omar Thorton shooting, where the black guy killed a few white co-workers. Surely this Anders guy must piss you off far worse then, since he not only killed almost 100 whites, but 100 Nordics, and most of them youths.
And yet I detect a surprising lack of anger towards Anders compared to say Omar Thorton.
The attack is exactly what the EU needs to abort the Populist and Nationalist trend that has already taken power THROUGH PEACEFUL AND FUNCTIONAL DEMOCRACY in several small Euro countries.
Now the EU can plausibly associate the will of the people with mass murder.
Based on history and experience I'm going to assume there's an agent provocateur somewhere in the setup, though we'll never know.
Further ammunition for leftists to discredit conservatives and internet sites expressing taboo thoughts.
Mencius Moldbug has a good analysis of this too.
Reading through this post and this blog in general I can't help but notice the extreme poisonous racially-tinged pseudo-scientific poser this author really is.
It's quite sad to see how his entire way of thinking is so warped. He should just step back and notice how his obsession with race instead of giving any sort of scientific respectability sounds so stupid.
Oh yeah, especially the post about how smart Obama is you sound SOOOO STUPID AND PETTY. Tell me, what have you accomplished Steve Sailer besides being a second-rate wannabe be analyst? Do you have any actual scientific training or do you like to just babble?
I bet you are a petty and bitter white man lol.
The guy lifted much of his manifesto from the Unabomber. So he's about as political as Ted Kycinzski (sp?) or Cho Seung Hui or George Sodini. I have a post up exploring his motives tomorrow, basically another Beta Male Rampage. Like those Chinese guys attacking Kindergartners. A red flag, other men's children.
The guy is an "anti-racist" according to his postings, anti-nazi, pro-Israel, an admirer of Churchill and some Norwegian WWII Resistance Fighter, and pro-gay. He's also a fan of Tru Blood, Dexter, the Shield, Caprica, and Stargate Universe. He's a fan of Kafka's The Trial and Orwell's 1984. He likes the movie 300.
So he goes and kills lots of kids at a Youth camp. That ought to be the red flag, he does the most sustained killing on the targets he hates the most -- other men's kids (no woman in his life, utterly predictably).
If he was an anti-multiculturalist, why did he kill all those Norwegian kids, all of whom could combat what he despised just by breathing and (eventually) reproducing?
Not that I expect rationality from such a despicable person.
Ironically this guy will get women coming out the woodwork to be with him, in conjugal visits, and attractive ones too, not hideous beasts. That is utterly predictable. He was nothing, became the real life monster of the fantasies (aimed at women and gay men) he watched. Now he's someone and being famous and a killer will do better than he ever would have done had he never hurt anyone.
This won't hurt anti-multiculturalism a bit, because it never had a chance anyway. White guys are too equal to White women, and so generate among White women a desire for multi-culti which is thinly disguised desire for dominant, aggressive, violent males. Which they can't get among their male peers. The fight against multi-cult, PC, Diversity, and mass immigration was doomed from the start because it is driven by White Middle/Upper class women's desire to (borrowing from Justin Timberlake ) "get sexy back."
Roissy is right. Be poolside.
cameron, sarkozy and merkel share the same view on multiculturalism as this norwegian.
Can somebody please explain why such a smart and conscientious guy went and did something that would so obviously damage his cause? I mean, what the hell was he thinking?
@Anon #2
Well everyone thought it was a rogue immigrant/muslim the second they heard explosions. So hearing that the gunner was in fact a blonde blue eyed man who spoke Norwegian with no accent was appalling. They don't get many white criminals in Norway I assume..
And who shouldn't 'have it in' for the neocons.. Bastards cost us trillions in bs wars.
Feels a little sacrilegious to mention, but the thing about "summer camp" and "children" is misleading. The place in question is a camp owned by the Norwegian social democrats, the hegemonic party in Norway. Some of the people there were high schoolers, but the youth organization is basically a group for younger soc-dems that exists to identify and support potential future leaders of the party. It's an incubator for politicians. They're by and large decent people. To be chosen, you have to have a combination of political attractiveness, smarts and ambition. Norwegians are nice, honest people, so most of the people in the chosen group are nice, honest people, too. But they're people whose biggest ambition is to compel their countrymen to realize their visions (right or wrong, but almost always currently fashionable) under threat of arrest.
Did anyone raise a fuss about this?
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/05/shock-report-every-rape-in-oslo-norway-in-past-5-years-was-by-non-western-foreigner-video/
Massive 'immigrant' rape in Norway.
In the spirit of Omar Thorton, let's not be quick to pass any judgment.
So, your heart is with him but your head saids: "no, no, this is not the way to go!"
"You're doing it wrong!"
The unfortunate thing is that this screws our side, a lot. The media have their new Timothy McVeigh and they'll flog this thing for the next three or four decades.
The media tried to build up Jared Loughner, who was a Jewish-American anarchist, as a right wing extremist. With this guy, unfortunately, they have a more credible case. They're going to nail the immigration-restrictionist right's collective rear end to the wall over this.
Anders manifesto starts with an intellectual bang:
"One of conservatism’s most important insights is that all ideologies are wrong. Ideology takes an intellectual system, a product of one or more philosophers, and says, “This system must be true.” Inevitably, reality ends up contradicting the system, usually on a growing number of points. But the ideology, by its nature, cannot adjust to reality; to do so would be to abandon the system."
Interesting. His actions aside, I want to read a defense and a criticism of this argument. I digress...
What is it Scandinavians are good at? IQ is too simple since East Asians aren't coming up with paragraphs like that.
My guesses are:
1. non-judgmental observation
2. abstraction
3. organization
4. intuition
I wouldn't say this guy was a neocon either, he's all over the map. Neocons like multiculturalism, this guy opposed it along with Muslim immigration. There's he's closer to Jared Taylor. From what I gather he opposed Norway being part of NATO or in the Libya/Afghan campaigns. That's also Jared Taylor-like. But he's pro-gay rights, somewhat anti-Christian (he takes pains to criticize pre-Enlightenment Christianity several times and asserts he's no Christian). Which would make him partly neo-con.
His main beef seems to be that he was a nobody, and he gloms onto anything that criticizes the society that leaves him in that state.
I am not that impressed with his planning, killing a bunch of kids in an unarmed and passive society is not anything requiring a mastermind. It takes stupidity to screw that advantage up. What struck me was the extreme passivity, again echoing Columbine, Virginia Tech, Montreal. Boaters rescued kids in the water, but had no weapons to go after this guy.
Western society is almost totally disarmed and passive.
The effectiveness of one right wing white terrorist is pretty chilling. Imagine what 10 working in coordination could do?
Perhaps a post providing a current definition of neoconservatism is in order, because there seem to be some differences between this Norwegian terrorist's views and those of American neocons. For example:
*American neocons favor active support of Israel (selling weapons to it, diplomatically, financially). Does this Norwegian favor Norway doing that?
*American neocons think (or thought)that Arabs could benefit from democracy. My guess is that the Norwegian couldn't care less about that.
To the Norwegian, Israel is probably just a proxy in the war between Europe and the Muslims, a modern day Crusader state.
Actually, though they have a maximum overall sentence of 21 years, they can apparently detain a prisoner indefinitely longer if they still consider the prisoner to be a potential menace to society.
Really, besides the death penalty, seems to me to be not that much different from what we have here, other than in terms of semantics. Yeah, a guy here may get a 40 or 50 yr sentence, but he could be out in 20 on good behavior, so what's the difference on his end?
lawrence auster on view from the right has some good insights on this.
All I can say is thank goodness he wasn't anti-semitic - it would be the dream evil guy for MSM his pro israel stance at least tempers their hate fest somewhat.
after 9/11 george bush visited a mosque and declared islam a religion of peace, and academics and the left formed a society for the protection of aliens.
After the fort hood shootings, the army went out of its way to say he was an isolated lunatic, and that it would be a shame if diversity suffered.
needless to say 'we' the non neocon right, cannot expect the same treatment.
i can't imagine what would go throught he guy's head to make him think this would accomplish anything, and, perhaps I am old fashioned, but I don't believe in killing unarmed people, young, old, idealogical whatever...
if we claim our civilization is worth preserving and that muslims have barbaric cultures, how could anyone in turn behave like this?
it doesn't make sense.
This is a wet dream for the left/globalists/multiculturalists they can barely contain their glee, its a cart blanch like 9/11 was for the neocons, only 'we' are iraq.
he's almost from left wing central casting:
blond, blue eyed
using a GUN (gun control!)
shooting innocent kids at a camp who were just trying to bring peace...
they have already tried to peg him as a 'Christian fundamentalist' but from what i understand he was not religious.
It's going to take a lot longer than a few days and a quick read of his "manifesto" to get to the bottom of this guy, maybe forever. As for "no surprise he's a juicer", that's perceptive...if you view his taking them as just another hyper-rational move on his part, just as steroid use in baseball and golf is also rational. If you blame steroids for his doing what he did, then that's beyond idiotic. If your stance is the latter, it might behoove you to find out about steroids, since you've never demonstrated anything more than the most cursory media-derived knowledge of them. What is D-BOL anyway? Do you even know?
It's time for Steve examine the "counter-jihad" phenomenon.
"An important conclusion to be drawn from this unfortunate incident is the tremendous good judgment displayed by the PRC leadership in preventing foreigners from gaining domination over their own electronic media. This is certainly one of the many reasons it seems increasingly likely that China will soon become the primary inheritor of worldwide human civilization."
Wise words.
"What is it Scandinavians are good at? IQ is too simple since East Asians aren't coming up with paragraphs like that.
My guesses are:
1. non-judgmental observation
2. abstraction
3. organization
4. intuition"
Contentiousness, introversion and strong visual-spatial skills are what gives Scandinavians their unique psychological profile among whites. They resemble Mongoloids in these traits(but are very different in other ways).
He's also been compared to Baruch Goldstein, who perpetrated the Purim massacre of Muslims in Hebron in 1994. Speaking of which, it is more than a little strange for someone with such an apparent anti-Islamic animus to choose to kill his decidedly non-Islamic fellow Norwegians. What a world!
Every time someone murders a lot of people, a chorus starts from every direction: "It is his political veiws that made him do it". Bullshit in every case. World would be a simpler place if this were the case. The sad reality is that the world is full of Raskolnikovs who will, with certain probability, kill because that's the BIG THING to do. There are countless rationalizations involved but the bottom line never has anything to do with politics and everything to do with the person being a sociopath.
The only place where politics enters the equation is when it explicitly enables and encourages sociopathic actions (commies and Nazis are textbook examples here).
What's eerie is some people are coming to his defense, at least indirectly, by admitting they agree with his political philosophy. Normally, people immediately condemn everything and everyone associated with a person like this.
I guess the lesson is people like competence, above anything else. A competent, coherent person must be right, our primal reptilian brain thinks.
He was competent, his timing was Navy Seal precise, and he was clean shaven. In his manifesto, he budgeted for tanning and make-up to present the best face possible.
Maybe this is why the fashion industry exists.
People follow intelligent good looking people, even if straight off a cliff.
"Roissy is right."
No, he's completely wrong and a hilariously washed-up old creeper.
But please, by all means, keep worshiping him. Take yourself out of the dating market. More for me.
"The effectiveness of one right wing white terrorist is pretty chilling. Imagine what 10 working in coordination could do?"
Well, take a look at Libya. Bam Boom Wham.
Lol. I grabbed a couple dozen links from G**gle news yesterday, and a few people dropped in threads today, and lazily scanned a few for mentions that this guy is a Zionist (which I knew from reading Tan's post at Age of Treason).
I should've known to go to the Jewish and Israeli press for confirmation in the mass media. Duh.
He's an "anti-racist" too.
Leftoids think they're going to have a field day pinning this on fascistsracistsnazis but they're wrong. It's roughly equivalent to trying to pin Bolshevism on American leftists without getting any egg on the Mensheviks.
This world becomes stranger and stranger; I find myself in at least partial agreement with Whiskey. Setting aside his politics, two things leapt out at me immediately. The first was the use of the word "tragedy." This was not a tragedy, this was an atrocity. By my definition, a monstrous crime. The second thing that seemed appalling, and yet has attracted, so far as I have heard, little comment, was the extreme passivity of the victims and survivors.
Per the last report I saw, there were over 650 people on the island, and one man with a rifle "made them all his bitches" to use the argot, walking around for over an hour, shooting people. I am not a tough guy, but I cannot comprehend how six hundred and fifty people could be so cowed by a single man. If twenty people had bum-rushed him, they could have killed him, ripped him limb from limb. A gun would have come in mighty handy, but in the absence of firearms, well, there are clubs, bricks, sticks, cars, hands and teeth.
In the compound word "gunfight" the operative and most important word is "fight" and the Norwegians seem to have lacked the will to resist. This terrifies me. The Norwegians seem to have meekly awaited their deaths, like good little (pre-Warsaw ghetto uprising) Jews. So much for "O Lord, deliver us from the fury of the Northmen!"
Say, do you think this guy reminds Whiskey of Jared Taylor? (Nice and subtle there, Whiskey.) His blogosphere communications with Fjordman and his explicit advocacy of the "Vienna School" (which I take as a reference to Gates of Vienna, where Fjordman hangs out at times) might have made that the comparison to draw, since AIPAC hates hates HATES Jared Taylor, but hey, let's let Whiskey be Whiskey.
I imagine that the MSM will be conflicted about the Norwegian Shooter because he has demonstrated just how vulnerable the liberal elite are.
Indeed, the MSM, who creamed their jeans over this fine example of an evil, blond, blue-eyed Nordic terrorist that they failed to realize that they were telling everyone out there that he managed to cause a lot of damage to the liberal elite.
Where do they go from here? Drop it all in a deep hole?
I am an avid reader of HBD sites and especially hold high esteem for this blog. The subject of HBD appears to have the most useful, explanatory information regarding the differences among ethnicities in academic, technological, and economic achievements. However, I often sense a strong whiff of petty narcissism and self-aggrandizement on these blogs.
White males are to be praised and appreciated when they found Google, develop the scientific method, or establish wondrous nations like Germany. However, it cheapens HBD if even a heinous serial killing can be used as another attempt at self-glorification. Some nineteen or so men murdered 3,000 Americans on 9/11/01 without the use of rifles, ICBMs, or biological weapons. Half a million or more Hutus and Tutsis were slaughtered in only a hundred days in Rwanda. Should we praise these “efficient” examples perpetrated by Arabs and sub-Saharan Africans? When did HBD become an ethnocentric celebratory dance?
It just seems quite churlish and distasteful to use any example, no matter how horrific, to beatify one’s race. Euclidean geometry, the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, thermodynamics, and Boolean algebra should suffice.
Svigor shows his humanity by starting his first blog comment here on this tragedy with "Lol".
The dude is ugly. And "over six feet" ain't tall for a Nordic. I hear the average guy in Denmark is over six feet.
But he was well-off, way I heard it. Maybe this tells us something about the well-off? He was also heavy into politics. Maybe this tells us something about people who are heavy into politics? People who quote Kant? Dig Orwell and JS Mill?
Good thing Steve that the perpetrator wasn't a Muslim extremist, or otherwise we would've heard about it the moment the news broke out on every single HBD blog for days on end, with an endless stream of hysterical denunciations coming from the white nationalist camp. Thank god the perp was one of you guys. Clearly that's allowed everyone to maintain their cool and respond so much more rationally to this entire ordeal.
So you're saying our little corner of the Web responded to Breivik (two days on, mind) the way the mainstream media responded to the Wichita massacre, the Zebra murders, the ongoing dispossession of the Afrikaners, black crime, Pim Fortuyn's assassination, Yahweh ben Yahwen, "flash mobs," etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum?
And yet I detect a surprising lack of anger towards Anders compared to say Omar Thorton.
In other words, you can dish it out, but you can't take it?
i dont know of too many neocons, steve, who talk abut the need for the Nordic race to remain pure.
I don't know of many "racists" who promote cultural determinism and "anti-racism," either.
He's a classic anti-Jihadist. Or as we're now calling them, students of the "Vienna School," a la Fjordman.
*American neocons think (or thought)that Arabs could benefit from democracy. My guess is that the Norwegian couldn't care less about that.
He's opposed to trying to bring the democracy.
Steve Sailer, I remember you were rather worked up over the Omar Thorton shooting, where the black guy killed a few white co-workers. Surely this Anders guy must piss you off far worse then, since he not only killed almost 100 whites, but 100 Nordics, and most of them youths.
And yet I detect a surprising lack of anger towards Anders compared to say Omar Thorton.
----
Steve wasn't angry about Omar Thorton particularly, you ignoramus. He was angry that the toadish media was pretty much saying that his victims deserved it because they were racists or something.
Omar Thorton type killings are a dime a dozen.
Based on what is available on the web (I have not read his manifesto, nor will I, as that would be rewarding this vicious killer) his views could not be characterized as extreme. They don't sound much different than those of Mark Steyn. As such his actions are completely out of step with his professed beliefs. Perhaps he is not driven by his beliefs so much as by whatever murderous instincts drive most mass killers. Perhaps he is nothing more than a more highly functioning version of Jared Loughner or George Sodini, with a highly refined sense of grievance made worse by too many steroids and no female companionship.
It was a thoroughly evil crime of murder. It was Anders Breveik's crime, not that of any other paleocon, immigration restrictionist, HBD proponent, or anti-jihadist, and none of them should feel the least bit guilty for it.
He might be bi-polar; a 1,500 page manifesto sounds like someone writing things down while in a manic state or made up of successive writings compiled during manic phases. He also seems to have augmented his grandiose feelings with steroids which he probably found enjoyable and gave him an enhanced sense of being on a mission of world importance.
Although he seems extremely focused and rational on the surface, being able to explain his own personal logic and carrying out his actions in a methodical manner, there's a disturbed person at the core.
And yes, I was astounded at the body count. The water must be cold there. The press has mentioned that some died from drowning and I assume they're being included in his tally.
Thought exercise: when guys like our angry anonymous (who posts serially to make it look like he's actually a crowd of anonymous leftoids) try to guilt trip you, consider how leftoids would respond to one of their own murdering a hundred youths at a summer camp for the children of Nazi intellectuals. That ought to sober you up right quick.
Consider how much splainin' greens had to do for the Unabomber.
In fact, that's not just a thought exercise, that's my answer.
"Anonymous said...
Steve Sailer, I remember you were rather worked up over the Omar Thorton shooting, where the black guy killed a few white co-workers.
And yet I detect a surprising lack of anger towards Anders compared to say Omar Thorton."
The media isn't making excuses for this guy, as they did for Omar Thornton. And anyway, Steve referred to Breveik as an "evil bastard" - I don't remember that he ever described Thornton in such categorically condemnatory terms.
Sorry for the serial posts Steve, but I forgot to ask: does anyone actually know the ages of the victims? I ask because I heard somewhere that they were mostly twenty-somethings, but the media keeps calling them "kids" and "children" and obviously someone's wrong here.
"And yet I detect a surprising lack of anger towards Anders compared to say Omar Thorton."
Stephen, he read you like an issue of Penthouse Letters.
Yeah, I'm with you guys, those 8 good white folks a month getting black eyes and busted lips courtesy of flash mobs; horrific.
This guy reminds me of the Virginia Tech nut more than anyone.
Oklahoma City was a sting gone wrong. Nothing in common with this.
I'm not happy that anybody is dead, but, as sad it may sound, I'm glad they're Norwegian rather than from an English-speaking country. I think the cultural and linguistic barrier has slowed the diffusion of this story to the broader world. For hours after the story first broke the lead news story was still the budget ceiling talks. And then Amy Winehouse died...
On my own local paper's site, the Breivik story is listed as one of the "Top Stories," but is not in the top 10 of either the "Most Popular" or the "Most Commented." People in the USA aren't even paying attention. Three months from now most people won't even recognize Breivik's name. This is good, because everytime the rare right-wing extremist actually surfaces the goal of the Left is to silence conservatives.
As it is, I feel no need to excuse myself for my political beliefs or bear some guilt for Breivik's actions.
I am opposed to affirmative action. I am opposed to racial quotas and set-asides. I am opposed to large-scale public welfare, for people of any race. I am opposed to "white guilt," or being made to feel guilty for the real and alleged crimes of some of my ancestors. I am opposed to the bashing of Western culture, or the promotion of non-Western culture in heretofore Western countries that non-Westerners have chosen to move to, often because their own countries are quite awful. I am opposed to illegal immigration. I am opposed to legal immigration at the present, absurdly high rates, especially at a time of 9% unemployment. I am opposed to policies that would make me and my children racial minorities in our own countries.
It is not bigoted, racist or extremist to hold such views, nor will I be made to feel like such for holding them. But if you tell people they're extremists for holding them, it just so happens that maybe he'll start to feel like he is one, and go out and act like Breivik.
Breivik's actions don't make me want to crawl into a closet. They remind me of the importance of open discussion of the most important topics of the day. I won't let the Left marginalize me, and neither should anyone here.
"He was also heavy into politics. Maybe this tells us something about people who are heavy into politics?"
Indeed. I used to have a few friends on Facebook who posted incessantly about politics - left wingers, both of them, and both reasonably intelligent. I dropped them both after they blamed conservatives for the Loughner shootings.
What I wanted to tell them was that it isn't someone's political views that scare me so much as how obsessed they are with them. I'm far more scared of people like my old Facebook friends, who post constantly about politics, than of any random right winger who only occasionally mentions his beliefs.
"White males are to be praised and appreciated when they found Google"
Wasn't Google founded by Jewish immigrants?
Truth always makes perfect sense. Due to recent events in Norway black youths are free to throw full beer bottles in random strangers faces (Milwaukee) or stomp them until their victims legs are broken (Philadelphia).
"He's opposed to trying to bring the democracy."
So that's one issue on which he doesn't pick the crazy answer. But his actions Friday, aside from being evil, don't even make sense. If his goal was to stem Muslim immigration, the logical way to do that would be to unmask Muslims as violent extremists (easy enough to draw the crazy out of them, with cartoons, amateur movies, and other stunts), or to highlight the contradictions between the pro-gay views of the Norwegian left and the intolerance of the Muslims.
Killing a bunch of unarmed Norwegians though? Could he have done anything worse to hurt his cause? Lefties will use this as proof that Muslims are no more capable of violence than Nordic Norwegians; they'll also use it to delegitimize rightist parties.
Good thing Steve that the perpetrator wasn't a Muslim extremist, or otherwise we would've heard about it the moment the news broke out on every single HBD blog for days on end, with an endless stream of hysterical denunciations coming from the white nationalist camp. Thank god the perp was one of you guys.
He wasn't a white nationalist.
Next stupid comment?
> An important conclusion to be drawn from this unfortunate incident is the tremendous good judgment displayed by the PRC leadership in preventing foreigners from gaining domination over their own electronic media. This is certainly one of the many reasons it seems increasingly likely that China will soon become the primary inheritor of worldwide human civilization.
Quite agree. Smart guys, determined guys. Almost wholly admirable, to my mind. I remember when it basically dawned on me that their terrible oppressive blah blah censorship was the very kernel of wisdom. Anybody with two neurons to each innervate the other can realize the same, but we know that they won't.
I have pointed out before that the whole hyperpower thing is one reason for our intensified decadence from 1990. I like a strong China. In the same way, feeling that W-Europe needed a stimulus to her system, Nietzsche prayed in the 1880s for a strong Rossiya.
Can somebody please explain why such a smart and conscientious guy went and did something that would so obviously damage his cause? I mean, what the hell was he thinking?
Depends on what you think his cause is. It seems pretty clear that he wants a war with the left, and sees Muslims in Norway as just a symptom of the lefts agenda. So viewed in that light, his actions do make some sense.
But his actions Friday, aside from being evil, don't even make sense. If his goal was to stem Muslim immigration, the logical way to do that would be to unmask Muslims as violent extremists (easy enough to draw the crazy out of them, with cartoons, amateur movies, and other stunts), or to highlight the contradictions between the pro-gay views of the Norwegian left and the intolerance of the Muslims.
Yeah, if that was his goal. But if you look at his manifesto you'll see that was not his goal.
I remember you were rather worked up over the Omar Thorton shooting, where the black guy killed a few white co-workers. Surely this Anders guy must piss you off far worse then, since he not only killed almost 100 whites, but 100 Nordics, and most of them youths.
I guess one difference is that Thorton is an American who killed Americans, and not a foreigner who killed foreigners. Some people consider that an important distinction. You seem to be complaining that Steve is not the "Nordicist" you wanted him to be in your fantasy world.
Truth:
"And yet I detect a surprising lack of anger towards Anders compared to say Omar Thorton."
Stephen, he read you like an issue of Penthouse Letters.
So that's what you call the kind of mind-reading you approve of, eh? But God forbid if we try to "read" Obama the same way.
Steve calls Anders "evil bastard." If that's not angry enough for you, then do provide examples of how angrily we are supposed to react from your past comments on Omar Thornton.
Here, let me get you started: Did the Hartford Massacre victims have it coming?
(Media's reaction and Steve's own also present for convenient comparison of anger levels.)
Somebody can be read like a open book here, but it isn't Steve.
See, Truth, this is what happens when you let lesser trolls make inane comments for you. Please make your own next time.
> It just seems quite churlish and distasteful to use any example, no matter how horrific, to beatify one’s race. Euclidean geometry, the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, thermodynamics, and Boolean algebra should suffice.
I really don't think any glorification was going on, Steve was just noting the fact that McVeigh and such have been more competent than the 'crotch bomber' type. This matters for a number of reasons other than any sense of 'glory' in malevolent technical abilities.
However, you are right that the 'fact' may simply not be correct: Steve may have just forgotten to give attention to 9-11. As you say, coming up with that plan showed a certain level of intelligence and creativity - though as I recall, the collapse of the towers may not have been anticipated by anyone. Even if you discount the collapse casualties, muslim terrorism has been highly fatal on average, just because of 9-11 alone. At the same time, the number of failed 'crotch bomb' and 'shoe bomb' etc efforts is slightly surprising.
Here is Nightwatch, a mainstream daily summary of open-source intelligence and a consultant to various government agencies:
"Some citizens in Norway, Switzerland and France, among others, recently have displayed a backlash against their governments' open door policy of allowing immigration from Islamic states. The liberal attitudes of government leaders are out of touch with their constituencies. France is an exception in that it requires assimilation.
"The murders in Norway may be understood as a dark symptom of a fundamental flaw in the way that Norwegian democracy works or doesn't. The shooter has been portrayed as deranged in US media, but the sentiments he expressed are not unique to him, according to NightWatch first-hand experience in Oslo.
Yes, Norwegian lakes are very cold, even in the summer. I once took a swim in one when I was young and foolish and nearly paid with my life!
Thanks Steve- great analysis.
BTw, the Killers Pro-Israel comments were never reported by the MSM.
I don't know why.
i dont know of too many neocons, steve, who talk abut the need for the Nordic race to remain pure.
Good point. Neocons do worry about a certain people remaining pure, but of course it's not the "Nordic" one so that's all right.
Actually this whole thing happened because Norwegians won't act like Norwegians.
Why is this small Nordic country importing Muslims and 3rd World'ers, or getting involved with Afghanistan or Israel, or basically doing anything in terms of foreign policy?
Its nuts. The only sane people in Europe are the Swiss.
61 comments, and I'm the first to suggest that this guy might be a Manchurian Candidate/product of MK ULTRA?
Seems like that has to be considered a strong possibility, given the weirdness of this dude.
As mentioned by someone else, never forget that if the killer had murdered 93 Norwegian "neo-nazis" the coverage would be completely different.
Further, if the killer had been Muslim, the MSM would now be full of "he was just a lone Kook" and "Don't blame Muslims for this" articles.
ABB will probably be sentenced to 21 years and "forvaring", meaning that rather than being let out after 21 years, the court will reconvene every five years to judge whether it's safe to release him now.
"ABB will probably be sentenced to 21 years"
And maybe he'll end up with a teaching gig like Bernadine Dohrne and Bill Ayers. Terrorism is the weapon of the powerless. 60s radicals felt powerless and turned to terrorism, but now that they have the ivory tower, they use government, elite institutions, and the law.
In fact, most of Europe is now run by the May 68 generation, the people who once called for violent overthrow of the entire system. Funny how history works out. Now, the patriots are out of power, and this guy clearly went cuckoo cuckoo. But maybe he should take heart from the example of Ayers who even got to dillydally with a man who would become future president.
"61 comments, and I'm the first to suggest that this guy might be a Manchurian Candidate/product of MK ULTRA?"
You need to stop watching movies.
Besides, this was more like the Terminator.
It could be the US media won't play on this as much as it would like to because of the pro-Zionist angle.
Is he really a Christian Zionist? If so, he seems to think Muslim immigration will be bad for Jews as well. Indeed, many rightists are puzzled as to why Jews support immigration from the Muslim world into Europe when so many Muslims don't like Jews.
Maybe the answer can be found in the game of chess. To win in chess, you have to give up certain pieces in order to gain strategic advantage on the board. So, it's simple-minded to wonder... "hmm, how does this guy hope to win when he's giving up his pieces and even sacrificing certain pieces in gambits?" In fact, of course, the player loses certain pieces but gains greater dominance on the board. Chess cannot be won without gaining dominance over the board, and that cannot achieved without giving up certain pieces. So yes, more Muslims mean more anti-Jewish hostility in Europe. But it also means reduced power for the white majority that had been the bane of Jewish power for centuries.
In a way, Breivik should be a sticky figure to Jews. On the one hand, he is the ultimate nightmare that Jews have feared: the crazy ultra-rightwing nationalist killer. Thankfully, he's a lone nutjob but what if many Europeans were to come to share his views? Might it not lead to another Holocaust? For this reason, Jews feel safer in a more diverse Europe. (Ironically, otoh, it's greater diversity which creates extreme figures like Breivik.)
On the other hand, due to extensive Holocaust consciousness (or Holoconsciousness) and laws against antisemitism, even the European Right has become philosemitic. It's as though the only acceptable way to be a European nationalist is in the defense of Jews and Israel. And Breivik fits that mold too. As Europe becomes more anti-Zionist and pro-Palestinian(like the Norwegian Labour Party), Israel is in an uneasy position of having to forge closer ties with the European Right, among whom there are some extreme figures like Breivik.
What Manson was trying to do with 'Helter Skelter', Breivik might pull with this incident (without the bug eyed, STD infested female coterie), if the whole thing boils down to one 'roided out kook, and not some larger conspiracy. The immigrant loving, high taxation, over regulating "Diversity Is Strength" behemoth is evaporating its credibility all over Europe, here in the US and in Australia with Gillard's crazy new carbon tax. Canada is still keeping it real - for now.
With every day bringing new holes in their already leaky tires, maybe this is a better executed "Operation Fast And Furious" for the EuroSoc's to gin up their dwindling base against the splintering nations and ethnicities of Europe? While the Guardian and the BBC went big on the Muslim angle from the first dispatches from Oslo (covering their butt?), they swung hard and heavy once the homegrown nativist angle became obvious. This is a dream story for such people, they won't be letting go of it as a tool to beat on English Defense League types and Marine le Pen for a long time.
And maybe, despite witnesses on the island noting two directions of gunfire, he is just a lone kook?
Having had to listen to left leaning friends list "root causes" as sufficient reason not to ride too hard on the Omar Thorntons, Hamas suicide bombers, illegal aliens from Guatemala, teen flash mobs and Mugabes of the world, I can't help but wonder if anyone will give credence to what pushed Breivik over the edge from internet blathering to storing 6 tons of fertilizer and getting ahold of a submachine gun. Cultural Marxism and multiculturalism are no less real and no less menacing because of Breivik's act. Like Captain Jack Aubrey says, this is no time to back down on anything. Anyone who wants to shove this in my face will get all the argument they want.
Breivik going for the children of the Eloi-like Scandinavian Socialists is true terrorism, akin to Beslan and numberless Iraqi, Palestinian and Afghani atrocities. If taken at face value with no new surprises, it is a declaration of war from an isolated member of a vague Silent Majority against the entrenched Powers That Be, who seem to be losing their grip a little more each day. There must be a fair amount of fear among EU bureaucrats of all stripes that copycats may take note at how defenseless and sheeplike these people were in the crunch.
Along with Manson, I see Breivik as a possible John Brown. The Corporate Statists and those who stand against them (a disorganized but growing rabble, akin to the Loyalists in 1936 Spain) have been spoiling for a fight for a long time. With the economy becoming more unbolted every day, and every advanced Western nation containing a mini Yugoslavia within its borders, it could blow up real big real quick.
In 1941 the world was full of natural resources, Third World populations were radically smaller and the US was a fairly monocultural manufacturing and oil pumping powerhouse. People were still fairly patriotic and Europeans were still attached enough to the notion of Life to actually have children.
In 2011 it is turned on its head. Resources are shrinking, the illiterate hordes are spawning like mad while the intelligent and skilled are riddled with ennui and self loathing. It's almost enough to drive a compulsive online posting independent farmer over the edge!
I think the 20th Century will be to the 21st Century what the 19th Century was to it - a mild prelude. This could be a watershed event.
And yes, you can't help but think the Muslims will have to top this somehow, or lose credibility. McVeigh and Breivik make them look like the rank amateurs they are, Mohammed Atta excepted.
Many people are expressing puzzlement.
"If the killer's Cause is anti-Muslim-immigration, then how could he logically believe that killing almost 100 white Nordic kids would help that Cause?"
"It makes no sense."
If something makes no sense, it's because one (at least) of your premises is wrong.
Now let's do a logical analysis, one that's in danger of being reductive it's so simple.
First, the premises. 1) The murderer is anti-Muslim-immigration. 2) He murdered a bunch of white Nordic kids.
Of these two, we know 2) is true. We know he murdered white Nordic kids.
But, do we know premise 1) is true? How do we know that he really is anti-Muslim-immigration?
-- a) He said so. It's in his manifesto.
-- b) He's a tall blond who opposes multiculturalism - again, he said that last part in his manifesto.
Regarding a): The manifesto is 1,500 pages long. It contains many things. We know it contains absolute contradictions. For example, he's against multiculturalism but claims to be "anti-racist"; he claims to be "anti-racist" but is (according to the JP) an "extreme pro-Zionist." The manifesto is all over the map, a farrago of politician-like assertions (no matter how far-out the various groups he's playing).
Regarding b), see the above. The manifesto is worthless. Particularly when we remember that people lie, and that actions speak louder than words.
All we know is that he killed white children and then declared mass-murder the necessary outcome of anti-immigration sentiment.
Now, what kind of a person would do that? If his views are important, what views would such actions imply?
He murders whites ... and tries to link mass-murder and immigration restrictionism.
Before the red light of "conspiracy theory" starts flashing on your dash, causing you to turn the wheel sharply, you have to admit that nothing seems like a false flag operation if this doesn't.
(Regarding being steroid-poisoned and woman-starved: plenty of men can cop to these things. But there's only one Breivik.)
evil bastard
That he clearly is, and more than one kind of crazy.
But that won't stop the coming harangues about, and condemnations of, the "evil" that supposedly motivated him. I don't think anyone can be crazy enough to do that.
This guy was convinced by the logic of Inglourious Basterds; that one can predict, preempt, and thus prevent a genocide. The thought of the rise of political violence in Europe, and the thought of Europeans becoming a vanishing minority in Europe, are both sickening. Thus the need for freer speech and media access for European conservatives.
I'm reading the guy's manifesto, and the first thing that strikes me is that the guy seems pretty smart. Not uber-intelligent, not a complete sophisticate, but he seems to diagnose Europe's problems well, and his ideology in the parts is fairly informed. In particular, he doesn't seem to be megalomaniacal, the sort of nutter they would typecast him as in anovel. He appraised his chances and went about his business in an entirely purposeful, methodical manner. Unfortunately, It's a damn shame that his business was a monstrous business, and by association leftists in the media will tar his rather sensible ideology by the same brush. Productive energy wasted, I think.
"Contentiousness, introversion and strong visual-spatial skills are what gives Scandinavians their unique psychological profile among whites. They resemble Mongoloids in these traits(but are very different in other ways)."
Hmm. Probably right. I'm a very atypical Scandinavian; being the opposite on those traits.
Norweigans and Swedes are very similar. Danes, on the other hand, are more fun-loving, have an anarchistic side and are much more willing to state their own opinion (Sweden is sadly very much a society based on public consensus rather than open debate).
A common trait among Swedes, probably Norweigan even though I'm not sure and Finns is a melancholic mindset. Maybe because the dark winter nights.
Guys, I hope you know a lot of that manifesto is ripped off from other sources. He's intelligent and quite articulate even in his second language, but you can't give him credit for every idea, analysis and reflection in those 1,500 pages.
I gave you a hard time for your uncharacteristic silence about these events.
So I have to give you credit for admitting that Breitvik is close to being your ideological soulmate, something no other rightwinger has been honest enough to do.
When threatened with annihilation, we had to defend ourselves and felt compelled to send a moderate but swift and clear message to those bigoted, blond, haters.
Ron:
"An important conclusion to be drawn from this unfortunate incident is the tremendous good judgment displayed by the PRC leadership in preventing foreigners from gaining domination over their own electronic media. This is certainly one of the many reasons it seems increasingly likely that China will soon become the primary inheritor of worldwide human civilization."
Can't argue about the 'good judgement', but perhaps unfortunately for us, the Chinese are not interested in replacing the USA/Anglosphere/West as the inheritor of worldwide human civilisation. They're just not universalists by inclination. They're not going to save us from ourselves; they just don't care about us, or about Civiliation, except in terms of what useful stuff they can get from us.
It is good to know that Civilisation, in some sense, will survive on Earth, in the Far East, even if, as looks likely, it fails in the West. But that should not distract Westerners from seeking to preserve our cultures and our peoples, because nobody else will.
Unfortunately, sir, the maximum total is 21 years in prison as penalty, but as another commenter mentioned, he may be put in custody beyond that.
In theory, he may be in prison for 21 years and beyond that in custody for the rest of his life.
There are speculations that it may end up like that in practice as well.
I disagree with RKU that China will inherit global leadership in the same sense the US had it, mainly because they don't seek that kind of role. They want to exploit much of the world for their own benefit of course, but they have almost zero interest in any larger reorganization of the world. Also, I like what RKU has done with his living room, although I would have gone with a lighter shade of green.
And I'm not so sure that this event will set criticism of multiculturalism back, because the media don't seem to be covering it that much. I see debt talks, Anthony Casey, lots of heat wave talk ... and surprisingly little about this event. I guess it doesn't quite serve anyone's interests?
I can see no difference between events in Norway and those in London on 7-7. Both are evil reactions to globalization, an equally evil project. See Norway, 9-11, 7-7, Madrid...
> An important conclusion to be drawn from this unfortunate incident is the tremendous good judgment displayed by the PRC leadership in preventing foreigners from gaining domination over their own electronic media.
The wiser members of the ruling elites from the Old America knew this-witness the famous taped conversation between Richard Nixon and Billy Graham. I think what Nixon was noticing at that time was the merger of the MSM, the universities and the managerial state into a single hegemonic revolutionary force-and he could do nothing about it, despite being head of state and
government.
"Whether he came up with the idea of killing a bunch of children after he started on steroids..."
- I doubt that steroids had anything to do with that aspect of it. 'Roid rage is a real phenomena, but it's more of the 'beat to death the careless guy in front of me who just accidentally scuffed my shoes' heat of the moment violence. This guy apparently meticulously planned out what he did over the course of several years.
"Steve Sailer, I remember you were rather worked up over the Omar Thorton shooting, where the black guy killed a few white co-workers. Surely this Anders guy must piss you off far worse then, since he not only killed almost 100 whites, but 100 Nordics, and most of them youths.
And yet I detect a surprising lack of anger towards Anders compared to say Omar Thorton."
- You've made up a straw man argument to complain against [pretty common strategy from the lefties]- Steve called what was done a terrible crime and called Breivik a cold, calculating, evil bastard (did you bother to even read the post you commented on?). Care to make any reality-based comments?
Angry multiposting anonymous is insincere ethnocentric Chinaman Yan Shen. See here.
"You need to stop watching movies.
Besides, this was more like the Terminator."
LOL, keep living in your Dream World. You think cybernetic robots are more real than CIA mind control schemes? The former is the hollywood fantasy, not the latter, which is an historical fact. Google MK ULTRA if you don't believe me.
The guy talks about the dangers of multiculturalism destroying traditional European civilization and culture, but also discusses the need for the Nordic race to preserve its genetic purity.
Where? Show us the quotes, Yan Shen. Else we'll be forced to conclude you're (still) a liar.
By the way a true believer would have shot up a mosque not made some crazy-assed "political statement" at a labor party campground.
My guess he was a victim of his own intelligence and conscienciousness in the sense that he wouldn't hit an obvious target of his anger. So he had to the "traitors" first.
"Thank god the perp was one of you guys."
He wasn't one of "us", you idiot. Unless you think all white folks look alike.
An important conclusion to be drawn from this unfortunate incident is the tremendous good judgment displayed by the PRC leadership in preventing foreigners from gaining domination over their own electronic media. This is certainly one of the many reasons it seems increasingly likely that China will soon become the primary inheritor of worldwide human civilization.
China won't be able to keep pesky foreigners out of their electronic media forever, and the more foreigners see, the less they will be interested in vesting worldwide human civilization to the tender care of the Chinese. Russia kept out foreign involvement in their media for decades, and didn't exactly become world beaters because of it. One does not logically follow the other.
"What is it Scandinavians are good at? IQ is too simple since East Asians aren't coming up with paragraphs like that."
I come up with stuff like this in in my sleep. Are you kidding?
How about this? "Ideology is simply articulated social planning and is an inescapable feature of all human societies numbering more than 2. To have a belief in conservatism as a non-ideology is self-cancelling."
Now where's the paean for my Asian insight? "Intuition, IQ, depth, etc." LOL.
Does anyone know how many of those killed were white? It seems to me that quite a few of the people on that island were non-white according to the pictures that I saw. Who was he actually targeting?
We know it contains absolute contradictions. For example, he's against multiculturalism but claims to be "anti-racist"; he claims to be "anti-racist" but is (according to the JP) an "extreme pro-Zionist."
None of these things are contradictory at all. His views are a completely mainstream strain of right-wing politics in Europe. His views are that of Geert Wilders essentially.
So, your heart is with him but your head saids: "no, no, this is not the way to go!"
Well? he couldn't really do it either. He had to juice himself up with steroids to keep the murderous fire lit. Armchair rebels dream of some Nietszchean heroes to do their fighting for them, but the average white dude cannot overcome thousands of years of civilizing forces. Only the hardcore high-T criminals can do that. The left already tried harnessing that *energy* and it was crushed by the govt.
That's why this sort of "action" is just so wrong.
i think steve and his commenters were more worked up about matthew yglesias's mugging than they are about this. of course i didn't expect otherwise
Russia kept out foreign involvement in their media for decades, and didn't exactly become world beaters because of it. One does not logically follow the other.
The USSR was about quite a bit more than barring foreigners from control of media. Does someone really have to point that out to you?
"Steve Sailer, I remember you were rather worked up over the Omar Thorton shooting, where the black guy killed a few white co-workers."
Then you misremember. Steve got rather worked up over the MSM's contradictory narrative of blaming Thornton's white victims for their putative racism and implying that it was Thornton himself who was the true victim in that slaughter due to the racism he allegedly experienced.
"And yet I detect a surprising lack of anger towards Anders compared to say Omar Thorton."
That's because your powers of detection aren't any better than your memory. Steve has already condemned the Norwegian shooter as an "evil bastard", a harsher description than any he applied to Thornton.
Nice balancing act you got going there between ignorance and arrogance.
"In the spirit of Omar Thorton, let's not be quick to pass any judgment."
In the spirit of Omar Thornton, let's not be quick to pass any judment on the shooter. Instead, let's blame his victims.
There. Fixed it for you.
OhioStater: "What's eerie is some people are coming to his defense, at least indirectly, by admitting they agree with his political philosophy."
This is a seriously stupid statement. Agreeing with something a person says doesn't implying approving all actions that person takes.
Cennbeorc
"I cannot comprehend how six hundred and fifty people could be so cowed by a single man. If twenty people had bum-rushed him, they could have killed him, ripped him limb from limb. A gun would have come in mighty handy, but in the absence of firearms, well, there are clubs, bricks, sticks, cars, hands and teeth...
...the Norwegians seem to have lacked the will to resist. This terrifies me. The Norwegians seem to have meekly awaited their deaths, like good little (pre-Warsaw ghetto uprising) Jews."
No, like good little 21st century multiculturalists.
LOL, keep living in your Dream World. You think cybernetic robots are more real than CIA mind control schemes?
Um, no one claimed that "cybernetic robots" are real. Presumably the point of the reference was that he was able to kill so many people because no one there was able to effectively fight back.
"One of conservatism’s most important insights is that all ideologies are wrong... ideology, by its nature, cannot adjust to reality; to do so would be to abandon the system."
I was astonished that a mass murderer would come out against ideology in such an eloquent way.
But a google search reveals that these are not his words, but those of William S. Lind.
That is not an issue for the MSM reporting the membership of the mass murderer Anders Breivik in the Norwegian Masonic Lodge I can understand. But this is also the case with the anti-jihad blogs, which is strange. His being a Mason is now discussed only on the blogs of traditional Catholics and the Masons themselves. Is this oddity not worth at least a little consideration? Would it not also an excellent relief strategy for the Anti Jihad blog scene under fire now? A-la: The guy was not only reading our blogs but also a valued member of the "humanist brothers". Why are they then not also under suspicion? -
Why is nobody having this argument? My guess in this regard at the end.
First on Breivik: On one of his photos he poses as a Masonic. In his manifesto it says that he was recently to be initiated in the combined fourth and fifth Degree of the Norwegian lodge, what he had to decline because he was already in the final preparations for his slaughter feast. I.e. He was third-degree Mason. According to him, the lodge was "unfortunately" not political, but dominated by a Christian and socially conservative environment, in which he felt fine. As you may know,the degrees 1-3 of Masonry are outside degrees. Would Breivik be initiated in the fourth and fifth Degree, he might have noticed that Freemasonry is not as apolitical as he thought. And that the roots of cultural Marxism and multiculturalism go deep and are nourished from the progressivist idea treasure of enlightenment, which would be inconceivable without the Masons (and which can also be put on a "conservative" mask). I do not think that Breivik wanted this to know. Because ideas cannot be shot and his demonic viciousness needed target coordinates of flesh and blood.
Describing himself as a Christian, "but not very religious", and to imagine the lodge for a Christian organization is only possible in countries that have been prepared for centuries by Protestantism for the wickedness of godlessness and where "Christian" became a completely diffuse term. This leads on to my hunch, why the Anti-Jihad scene is so shy about the issue of Freemasonry: This scene is primarily anchored in culturally Protestant / Puritan influenced countries, in which even Masons can belong to a "culturally conservative" environment. This scene is not aware of the inherently heretical, progressive, anti-Christian and atheistic character of Protestantism / Puritanism / Gnosticism and Freemasonry, because otherwise they would have to call the "conservative" founding myths of their own culture in question. This kind of "conservatism" contains the seeds of the modern attack in itself and is, at best, helpless or just plain cynical.
"His views are that of Geert Wilders essentially."
Which are themselves contradictory.
But his actions Friday, aside from being evil, don't even make sense.
The Labor party is running the country, so presumably he blames them for whatever is, in his eyes, wrong. It doesn't make sense from a PR perspective, but the goal was intimidation, not PR.
"European efficiency can go terribly wrong when it turns to organized killing, at which Northern Europeans are the champs."
I thought E. Asians were champs?
> China won't be able to keep pesky foreigners out of their electronic media forever
Why can't they?
In any case, I think that 30 years from now you will find the entire world acutely conscious of the ruin inhering in many (not all) of the post-1960 Western ideas (and to some extent certain pre-1960 ones). And, as with communism, they will recognize that the ideas are not just bad ones, but also wielded cynically in pursuit of power.
Will 'intellectuals' dream up some new memeplex of harmful stuff? It's possible. But the possibilities are limited. These brews have to play on or 'hack' or 'surf' human nature, and human nature has only so many strong drives and aspects susceptible to manipulation. I don't think the new brew will be as strong or as delectable as marxism or kulturmarxism have been. I also think that, after seeing those two do their thing - especially the latter, which is going to turn out much worse - the index of suspicion is going to be high worldwide. No one will be saying, 'aww, how could a little meme or three hurt anything?' William Blake's "dynamist" proverb "expect poison from standing water" is not going to be anyone's byword. Rather, they will say, "expect (or at least suspect) poison from ideas promoted by other people and other powers, suspect it from any sort of radical change, etc. Hew to your civilizational roots. Save your dynamism for the arts and sci/tech and commerce; we aren't going to be re-arraying the moral-social world in any but incremental ways".
For Yan Shen...
Norway massacre: Breivik manifesto attempts to woo India's Hindu nationalists
Norway massacre suspect Anders Behring Breivik’s manifesto invites Jewish groups in Israel, Buddhists in China, and Hindu nationalist groups in India to contain the spread of Islam.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2011/0725/Norway-massacre-Breivik-manifesto-attempts-to-woo-India-s-Hindu-nationalists
Angry multiposting anonymous is insincere ethnocentric Chinaman Yan Shen.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if that was so. It also wouldn't surprise me if he's the same yellow gent that plagued Amren back in the day. He's definitely similar in that he's a very, very unusual sort of Chinaman, with a huge chip on his shoulder against ethnopatriotic whites. The Amren nut sent me a nutty email once, and Kato doesn't seem that nutty, but it wouldn't surprise me.
> I doubt that steroids had anything to do with that aspect of it. 'Roid rage is a real phenomena, but it's more of the 'beat to death the careless guy in front of me who just accidentally scuffed my shoes' heat of the moment violence.
Virtually all male-female differences are mediated almost solely by the sex steroids, as seen in the case of total androgen insensitivity (due to genetic mutation of the receptor), which produces an almost totally normal XY female.
Women are daunted by nasty things, or even by insects, and accordingly they do a lot less murder with or without forethought - not to mention mass murder which seems basically a 100% male avocation, as opposed to 9:1 or 7:1 or whatever for ordinary moidah.
Anytime you see any marked gender difference it's unlikely that the sex steroids are altogether uninvolved. However, there are many effects that they can only (or mostly only) exert at certain ages. For example, I could be wrong, but I suspect that no matter how much testo I might inject now, I'm not going to get much better at math or worse at verbal intelligence tasks. But I would get that effect if I took exogenous testosterone from puberty through age 18 (I think - not 100% certain).
So I would suspect it's quite possible T has to do with people's 'success' in going through with mass-violent plans (or single moidah with forethought), but I would definitely not be certain of this.
The guy talks about the dangers of multiculturalism destroying traditional European civilization and culture, but also discusses the need for the Nordic race to preserve its genetic purity. So, assuming that hes not an anti-Semite and basically considers Jews to be "white", hes clearly a white nationalist who probably despises everyone apart from jews and gentile europeans.
I'm sure he thinks that Nordic genes a) have a functional influence on the kind of culture the Nords have and he thinks is best, b) provide a strong human link to the kind of culture he loves and he thinks is best and c) are aesthetically kind of beautiful.
I'd have a hard time going from any of that to despising. But then maybe it's all the years of reading HBD blogs that put me in that position of being skeptical that people (from any group) ever really hate other ethnic groups so much as love their own.
TGGP: Although he was also very pro-crusader and referred to his "movement" as a new crusade.
There's probably no way to find out (maybe it's somewhere in his breezeblock of a manifesto I can't be bothered to read) but I'd bet you that Breivik would agree with the assertion by Rodney Stark* (and fellow travellers) that the Crusades were a defensive war and "blowback" to an imperialist Islam, and that he'd repudiate them if he really believed it were not.
Not only is this pretty popular in the broader anti-Islamic right (I wouldn't be shocked if it were the modal view, really), anything else doesn't really fit with the man's self styled image as a purely defensive protector of his people, and he'd notice and be bothered by the inconsistency.
* which is "dubious" to put it lightly - see Tim O'Neill's takedown http://armariummagnus.blogspot.com/2010/05/gods-battalions-case-for-crusades-by.htm.
V for Vendetta.
James Bond movies.
Bourne Trilogy.
Red Dawn.
Blow em all up.
Hezbollah abducted two Jewish soldiers back some yrs ago, and Israel totally flattened parts of Lebanon, killing 100s, mostly civilians. It's possible Breivik admires Israel for that reason. It will do anything to defend itself.
And when Gazans shot rockets and killed 2 Jews, Zionists unleashed violence that killed 100s of Gazan women, kids, and even babies.
Adn I think there was an orthodox Jew in the late 80s or early 90s who shot a whole bunch of Muslims with an assault rifle. But that didn't stop Zionist determination to preserve Israel as it is. And it wasn't used to smear all of Zionism.
Here, I think, is a clue for why he did what he did (on page 4): "I am 100% sure that the distribution of this compendium to a large portion of European patriots will contribute to insure our victory in the end."
In other words it was a publicity stunt to get readers for what he was "sure" was "the answer." It appears to be working.
I wouldn't be surprised if he got the inspiration for this stunt while under the influence of acid many years ago.
What's eerie is some people are coming to his defense, at least indirectly, by admitting they agree with his political philosophy.
His political philosophy is that of the vast majority of the human race, so it's no great surprise that some people "admit" they agree with it.
That's not to say that they "admit" they agree with what he did.
I notice that the actions of Baruch Goldstein (who shot up a mosque and killed 29 Muslims in prayer) have had zero negative impact on Jewish nationalism. I don't recall seeing any media hand wringing about the Jewish ethno-state, or any left-wingers ranting and raving about those evil racist Jews. So you'll pardon me if I don't get terribly worked up over what happened in Norway, and if I react to your feigned outrage with a laugh.
Describing himself as a Christian, "but not very religious", and to imagine the lodge for a Christian organization is only possible in countries that have been prepared for centuries by Protestantism for the wickedness of godlessness and where "Christian" became a completely diffuse term.
What could be more godless and wicked than Pope Alexander VI banging his own daughter?
It is not bigoted, racist or extremist to hold such views, nor will I be made to feel like such for holding them. But if you tell people they're extremists for holding them, it just so happens that maybe he'll start to feel like he is one, and go out and act like Breivik.
This is an extremely important point, which Captain Jack doubtless would have made a bit clearer if he'd had more time. Let me flesh out: the signal achievement of both the euro and north american Left over the past 20 years has been to shut down rational discussion of policy debate, using the scare word "racist." By definition, any act is only extreme by reference to the availability of more moderate alternatives. To the extent you eradicate those alternatives, i.e. basic political dialogue, you are disqualified from complaining of extremism. I suppose that this killer was anticipating happening to his country what the Brits and Swedes are already going through.
Here's another amusing detail. The Oslo guy seems to describe his ideology as being that of the "Vienna School", and everyone says he's referring to Gates of Vienna, a leading "Counter-Jihadist" blogsite where his hero Fjordman hangs out. Now I'm not too familiar with GoV myself, but from the chatter I've generally read on rightwing blogsites, I always had the strong impression it was run on a shoestring by a couple of European-nationalist grassroots activists outraged at the influx of immigrant Muslims into their countries.
But after the Oslo guy's rampage, the NYT got in touch with the fellow called Baron something who runs GoV. Turns out he's actually a "consultant" based in the DC area---ha, ha, ha! I'd say the odds are just about 100% he's some paid neocon activist. Now maybe all the rightwingers already knew that their "European nationalist" website was run by a DC neocon...but maybe not.
I think one reason this sort of ideological false-flag operation works so well is that rightwingers tend to be exceptionally dumb and easy to manipulate...
Now I'm not too familiar with GoV myself, but from the chatter I've generally read on rightwing blogsites, I always had the strong impression it was run on a shoestring by a couple of European-nationalist grassroots activists
Turns out he's actually a "consultant" based in the DC area---ha, ha, ha
Is your ignorace really a matter for mirth? Those of us on the right have know for years that many of the anti-jihad/anti-muslim websites are run by Americans in America. Besides GoV there is Robert Spencer and Atlas Shrugged, run by that Jewish "neo-Nazi" Pamela Geller.
Ho, ho, ho!
I think one reason this sort of ideological false-flag operation works so well is that rightwingers tend to be exceptionally dumb and easy to manipulate...
Says the imbecile who has convinced himself that Hispanics have a high IQ and a low crime rate.
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!
And it was no "false-flag operation", the only people on Earth who were under the the impression that GoV was a European blog were cretins such as yourself.
It's remarkable how you can expose your own comical ignorance, and then attribute the same ignorance to other people who do not suffer from it!
Like so many very stupid peple, you suffer from the delusion that you are actually quite intelligent.
RKU said...
"But after the Oslo guy's rampage, the NYT got in touch with the fellow called Baron something who runs GoV. Turns out he's actually a "consultant" based in the DC area---ha, ha, ha! I'd say the odds are just about 100% he's some paid neocon activist. Now maybe all the rightwingers already knew that their "European nationalist" website was run by a DC neocon...but maybe not.
I think one reason this sort of ideological false-flag operation works so well is that rightwingers tend to be exceptionally dumb and easy to manipulate..."
I haven't spent much time at GoV since the mid-oughts, but I even remember his "about me" listing Baron Bodissey as a consultant in Virginia.
Why would anyone who read the blog think he was European?
"However, it cheapens HBD if even a heinous serial killing can be used as another attempt at self-glorification."
DAJ, you're making WAY too much sense...
Omar Thornton kills a bunch of white folk -- "See, it's proof he's stupid!"
Anders Breivik kills a bunch of white folk -- "See, its proof he's brilliant!"
"But he was well-off, way I heard it. Maybe this tells us something about the well-off?"
"The well-off" or "white folk?"
"It was a thoroughly evil crime of murder. It was Anders Breveik's crime, not that of any other paleocon, immigration restrictionist, HBD proponent, or anti-jihadist, and none of them should feel the least bit guilty for it."
You are SOOOOOOOOO right; precisely why I don't feel guilty about the OJ or the Zodiac killers.
"toadish media was pretty much saying that his victims deserved it because they were racists or something."
I missed that article.
"Truth always makes perfect sense. Due to recent events in Norway black youths are free to throw full beer bottles in random strangers faces (Milwaukee) or stomp them until their victims legs are broken (Philadelphia)."
Broken Leg>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Death
Hmmmmmmmm?
"Yeah, maybe like in the Omar Thornton incident the whole media establishment will deeply delve into rather or not these teenagers really did deserve to die."
I missed that article too. I need to check the archives.
Omar Thornton kills a bunch of white folk -- "See, it's proof he's stupid!"
I don't recall anyone saying that, at all.
It was -- "See, it's proof he's racist!"
As the kid of a diplomat, I wonder if he had ever attended one of these 'youth camps'.
How many people even know about such 'camps'?
"Some people consider that an important distinction. You seem to be complaining that Steve is not the "Nordicist" you wanted him to be in your fantasy world."
LMAO! HBD blog comment of the year!
"Steve calls Anders "evil bastard." If that's not angry enough for you, then do provide examples of how angrily we are supposed to react from your past comments on Omar Thornton."
YOU'RE JUST NOT GETTING IT, TOMMY!
Steve calls him 'evil bastard' not 'evil (white) bastard' (the parenthesis represent obvious subtext) GET IT NOW (please write yes.)
Understand one thing: This white man has (probably) killed more white people (good white people, not you polluted, inferior Southern Euro types and half-breeds) than any black person IN THE HISTORY OF THE PLANET!
If I'm wrong please name his black successor.
I assumed that this nutjob's reference to the "Vienna School" was a mangled version of the Austrian School of economics (Hayek, et al):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School
"That's because your powers of detection aren't any better than your memory. Steve has already condemned the Norwegian shooter as an "evil bastard", a harsher description than any he applied to Thornton."
Steve calls a guy who murders 100 (good, pure, elite) white people an 'evil bastard'?
STEPHEN, CONTROL YOUR TEMPER YOU'RE GOING TO BLOW UP!
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
To the MK Ultra guy;
There is a good chance that you are correct, but was the Thornton thing an MK Ultra operation as well?
The combination of these three counter measures, in addition to my 3 weekly indoctrination/meditation walks, resulted in my morale and motivation again peaking.
Good Lord, he's EVIL Seth Roberts (the REAL Seth Roberts, I should stress, is a great guy).
2004 Roberts, S. Self-experimentation as a source of new ideas: Examples about sleep, mood, health, and weight. Behavioral and Brain Sciences, vol. 27, pp. 227-262. replications. Excerpt in Harper's
http://sethroberts.net/about/index.html
Hunsdon:
"Deliver us from the fury of the Norsemen"
Most of the Norsemen who attacked and conquered England and France and Sicily and Russia were Danes and Geats - people from Denmark, Schleswig, and southern Sweden.
The Norwegians mostly focused on the essentially uninhabited northern fringe of Scotland and Ireland, the Hebrides, Orkneys, Faroe Islands, Shetlands, Iceland, Svalbard, and Greenland.
In later history, Norwegians turned into the bitches of first the Danes and then the Swedes and did not gain independence until 100 years ago. They were basically the pussies of Scandanavia.
Wow T, you're really on a roll. Work it, bra. *snicker*
In fairness to the MK-Ultra guy, he's not completely off base. There is a book, Harvard and the Unabomber: The Education of an American Terrorist by a respectable author, Alston Chase, that tells the story of "Ted" Kaczynski involvement with government testing while at Harvard. It's a fascinating story. Why it's not more well known, I don't know.
"Norway massacre suspect Anders Behring Breivik’s manifesto invites Jewish groups in Israel, Buddhists in China, and Hindu nationalist groups in India to contain the spread of Islam."
Perhaps that was his goal all along...
"I don't recall seeing any media hand wringing about the Jewish ethno-state, or any left-wingers ranting and raving about those evil racist Jews"
Maybe not in the mainstream media, because the mainstream media is not comprised of leftists. Liberals, yes. Leftists, no. They're two different things.
"Is he really a Christian Zionist? If so, he seems to think Muslim immigration will be bad for Jews as well. Indeed, many rightists are puzzled as to why Jews support immigration from the Muslim world into Europe when so many Muslims don't like Jews.
Maybe the answer can be found in the game of chess."
I like your explanation 'cause its g-loaded.
"Most of the Norsemen who attacked and conquered England and France and Sicily and Russia were Danes and Geats - people from Denmark, Schleswig, and southern Sweden."
To bad for you, there was a time when Denmark had a non-germanic population, probably celts. It is not a secret, it is just not published widely after ww2, as that would put the urheimat of the germanic peoples in Scandinavia.
This is one modern reference from genetics, but it had been known for a very long time among older Scandinavian archaeologists.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18046774
So even if that means that the urheimat was only in Sweden, Norwegians have managed not to get conquered by the Swedes for quite some time, not a bad feat at all, considering swedens much larger size, and all the other countries that Sweden dominated for centuries.
If you look at a map, it is quite easy to see that the result of all the wars in Scandinavia, is that Norway-Denmark is a result of what could be defended from the sea, while Sweden has taken everything where wagons were better suited.
Also when it comes to bravery, there were quite a few brave ones at Utøya. Would you have the balls to take a small boat to pick up youth on the island while being shot at? As far as I know all the boats that were available were used.
Among the killed was also a policeman, who according to witnesses tried to stop the killer. As this was a stepbrother of the royal princess and a card carrying labor party, it might be propaganda, but I don't think so. There are also other reports of grown-up trying to stop him.
What I find annoying is that the youths are trained to run and wait for the police, instead of trained to pick up something and throw it on an armed attacker.
Same with a school shooter, children should be drilled to gather in large groups, and throw their book or chairs on a shooter who enters the room. After this they should all charge him.
Now maybe all the rightwingers already knew that their "European nationalist" website was run by a DC neocon...but maybe not.
For RKU: When you click on the name "Baron Bodissey", a standard Blogger profile opens:
* Industry: Consulting
* Location: Virginia : United States
Shocking, I know :-)
Brievik was just acting out the hatred that commenters here spew every day, and Steve enables...look how many posts in this thread are basically sympathetic to him.
This white man has (probably) killed more white people (good white people, not you polluted, inferior Southern Euro types and half-breeds) than any black person IN THE HISTORY OF THE PLANET!
Is that like why Asian people should shut about racial violence from Whites because the biggest spree killer of Asians in history was an Asian?
He certainly killed a lot more people than Mark Essex though http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Essex
Anders Breivik kills a bunch of white folk -- "See, its proof he's brilliant!"
I'm not sure it's really being used as proof he's brilliant, as a way to inappropriately "boost" White status at an inappropriate time - just that it's necessary for Steve to explain why he can kill so many, while in general, Blacks with a racial animus, and White Americans with the grievances they have, for example, have been able to kill comparatively so few and are so ineffective. It's the kind of thing his audience would expect him to pass comment on.
And the answer, for a race realist at least the null hypothesis, would presumably lie to some extent the rationalised, well planned, methodical approach that Scandanavians are culturally known for and the trusting, relatively low murder societies (compared to the US at least) that they have. (or at least that's a convenient explanation that dovetails with our stereotype)
Now I'm not too familiar with GoV myself, but from the chatter I've generally read on rightwing blogsites, I always had the strong impression it was run on a shoestring by a couple of European-nationalist grassroots activists outraged at the influx of immigrant Muslims into their countries.
Ron: Unless you can support with quotes, that sounds more like your own dumb guy American preconception to be honest - i.e. any website run regarding Islamisfication of Europe must be run by Europeans and any website which is in Europe and contrary to the relatively left elite must be marginal.
Not that you're a dumb guy. But even the name "Gates of Vienna" is kind of an American construct. Americans and neocons do really tend to phrase the ongoing Islamic migration to Europe in a more rhetroic fashion than Europeans do (Breivik is obviously kind of an outlier here). Europeans don't want it to happen, and are really much more opposed than yanks, but they seems not really like "Eurabia Sharia Caliphate" (or conversely "Greater Aztlan Reconquista") kind of guys, in general, so much.
Reportedly, there is an option for more than 21 years of imprisonment as penalty. If he is charged with crimes against humanity, which he as of very recently was not, and probably still isn't, he could get 30 years.
Still, there is the possibility of custodial confinement beyond that.
RKU seems to really love the idea of clever U.S. Jews manipulating brutish Euro-gentiles, so much so that he comically shoots himself in the foot by claiming the Gates of Vienna creators posed as Europeans, when they made it abundantly clear on their blog that they are an American couple residing in Virginia. Oh, and they're not Jewish. That would also be clear to anyone familiar with their blog.
The manifesto goes some way to prove the Norway killer was a Lucifer worshipping Freemason, not a Christian.
He writes
"After 5 years in the Freemasons I was finally accepted for rank 4-5."
You can word search the document for that. I've not linked it because it keeps getting deleted everywhere. Apparently someone might get the idea to grab a gun and go beserk.
Breivik declined the offer due to lack of time, which is why he was 3rd degree).
In it he writes
"Q: Do I have to believe in God or Jesus in order to become a Justiciar Knight?
A:
As this is a cultural war, our definition of being a Christian does not necessarilyconstitute that you are required to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus. Beinga Christian can mean many things;
- That you believe in and want to protect Europe’s Christian cultural heritage
It is not required that you have a personal relationship with God or Jesus..."
He repeats this
"So no, you don’t need to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus...
It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian-
atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christiancultural legacy (Christian holidays, Christmas and Easter)).
The PCCTS, Knights Templar is therefore not a religious organisation but rather aChristian “culturalist” military order."
It should be pretty obvious to most on the right side of the bell curve that you can't be a Christian and not believe in God and Jesus. Not read it all and I'm not going to. Might say more elsewhere though.
It is getting harder by the day in Europe to "wave the bloody flag" of WWII. The living memory is fading and so it the guilt by association. The left surfed that wave well for 60 years but the ride is coming to an end. If the left thinks they can glom on to this guy as a way to renew the white bad black good guilt trip they are sadly mistaken. Muslims (which is what we are still really talking about) will always kill at a higher ration and leave a messier trail.
How is this human evil, Mr. Sailer? By taking the actions he did, he became famous in an instant and now is much more attractive to (some) females than he ever was before. He is now in a position to have many more offspring by many different females, paid for by other humans via the Norwegian government, than he ever would have had he not performed this act.
I would deem his actions, from an evolutionary standpoint, an extraordinary instance of adaptation. What you call "evil" is probably just your genes expressing their jealousy that another member of your species will reproduce in much greater numbers than you will.
prawnster
"Blacks with a racial animus, and White Americans with the grievances they have, for example, have been able to kill comparatively so few and are so ineffective."
Thornton, for example, killed 11 people THAT HE KNEW. He then called 911 to tell them what he had done and shot himself. If he had wanted to leave the building and drive up and down the streets of Hartford shooting random white people,instead of doing himself, his IQ would have "miraculously increased" Don't you think?
And by the way, what is so G-loaded about shooting unarmed people with a gun anyway?
"Is that like why Asian people should shut about racial violence from Whites because the biggest spree killer of Asians in history was an Asian?"
No, the biggest spree killer of Asians in history was a white man...the one who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.
"Reportedly, there is an option for more than 21 years of imprisonment as penalty. If he is charged with crimes against humanity, which he as of very recently was not, and probably still isn't, he could get 30 years."
Buddy, are you EFFING kidding me. This is a ultra-high IQ white man, (according to this blog) there is only one "punishment" suitable for this man that would fit the crime of killing 100 young, beautiful, undiluted (Nordic) whites: He should be locked in a house with 100 of the most beautiful, intelligent young women in Norway, and not let off his sentence until he has impregnated each and every one of them, to "make up" for his crime.
So what the guy made a little mistake, we'll just get him to make up for it, no harm. We can't let this kind of White potential high-IQ progeny die in his dried up testicles, can we?
"It is getting harder by the day in Europe to "wave the bloody flag" of WWII. The living memory is fading and so it the guilt by association."
It's even harder to do so - it should be impossible - in countries which actively fought the Nazi regime, like Great Britain. I recall coming across a speech a few years back by a black Afro-Carib British baroness, who basically made the argument that Great Britain owed handouts to blacks because Nazi Germany slaughtered Jews.
It sounds totally nonsensical, and it is, but nevertheless it's an argument that the Left has been making for years.
It's hard to ascribe N. European efficiency here when it took Norw. police 90 minute to get to the place.
"I recall coming across a speech a few years back by a black Afro-Carib British baroness, who basically made the argument that Great Britain owed handouts to blacks because Nazi Germany slaughtered Jews"
I'd LOVE to see video of that speech. Oh wait, it never happended? OK nevermind.
"he's almost from left wing central casting:
blond, blue eyed
using a GUN (gun control!)"
He also has his own organic farm. He copied and pasted his "manifesto" from the Unabomber's. He came into the equivalent of $100,000 suddenly and mystriously in 2007. His father is an ambassador. He is connected to all sorts of shady british groups.
Quite frankly. He IS from Globalist Central Casting. Anyone who does not even suspect that there is something untoward here is either lying or too stupid for words. The fact that this angle isn't even broached here just makes me remember why I ditched this site.
Or who knows, maybe Gerald Posner will write a book about how this guy was also a lone nut.
Brievik was just acting out the hatred that commenters here spew every day, and Steve enables...look how many posts in this thread are basically sympathetic to him.
Indeed. I mean, let's examine the associations here, and assign some guilt, shall we?
1. Breivik opposed Norway having a majority of its population originating from Muslim countries.
2. Anyone with a similar belief is guilty by association.
In other words, everyone who cares about Norway is guilty of Political Incorrectness.
We kinda knew that already. We already knew that most of what the left calls "evil" is actually good, and most of what the left calls "good" is actually evil.
Didn't the movie DIRTY DOZEN say it's okay to kill not only Nazi officers but their wives as well?
Does terrorism ever work? After the attack on US Marines in Lebanon, US did leave.
And Algerians did drive out the French via terrorism.
No, the biggest spree killer of Asians in history was a white man...the one who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.
Whitey's always wrong, isn't he? Well, when we finally balkanize- and we're well on our way, you wont have to hang around whitey anymore.... won't that be nice?
Hey truth, did you now that Oslo now has a rape rate 7 times that of New york, and despite being less than 10% of the population 66% (some estimate as high as 85%, )of the rapes are committed by 3rd world immigrants- 100% of the victims are Norwegian women. Some Norwegian women are even dyeing their hair to avoid harassment.
how do you explain the rape rate? Racism?
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article190268.ece
"The unfortunate thing is that this screws our side, a lot. The media have their new Timothy McVeigh and they'll flog this thing for the next three or four decades."
No s**t?
http://americangoy.blogspot.com/2011/07/europe-first-nativists-dealt-crushing.html
Feel free not to post this Steve-o, but it is terrifying how much political damage this will do throughout Europe to nativists.
Secret police will be sicced on any organization that is "anti mass immigration".
On EVERY organization.
"I would deem his actions, from an evolutionary standpoint, an extraordinary instance of adaptation."
Um, probably not. But for anyone who thinks that having a mass murderer in the family tree is an irremovable stain, I would only point to the descendants of John D. Lee, the (alleged) leader of the Mountain Meadows Massacre - one of the largest massacres in American history. Lee was not executed until 20 years after his crime. He had 19 wives. He is the great-great-grandfather of at least 4 U.S. senators (inlcuding 3 current), as well as the ancestor of a U.S. solicitor general, a Secretary of the Interior, and several other men of note.
I confess that I didn't read all
of the more than 160 comments here, but a question hovers over this--perhaps more remote to the specifics thus far known of this matter than maybe to other "nut like" atrocities: The question is whether current black arts technology and knowledge is sufficient for some clandestine organization to create a "Manchurian Candidate" to carry out something like this. The question pertains to technology and knowledge, not so much to the particulars of this tragic destruction of human life.
I wonder whether Breivik's "anti-racism" was merely a front.
Breivik IS a race realist. I suspect that he has at least 150 pages in his manifesto on race. I also suspect that he read HBD blogs.
Go to his manifesto and do a search for 'genotype' or 'nordic' or 'race-mixing' or 'genes'.
This from his manifesto suggests he cared about race:
“In any case, we need to get over this taboo as soon as possible because it is estimated that the Nordic genotypes will be extinct completely within 200 years. This is mainly due to intermarriage between Nordics and non-Nordics. Multiculturalist doctrines have speeded this “indirect extermination process” up further in many Western European countries so the extinction might happen sooner. F example the Norwegian cultural Marxist government has created a vast network of asylum camps all over the country
(and in historically isolated small towns and villages) which will contribute to accelerate this process substantially. The Nordic genotypes might be wiped out within 200 years and yet not a single counter-measure has been employed to prevent this from happening due to the fact that it is considered politically incorrect.”
Well, I certainly made a fool of myself for being lazy and relying upon my impression that the Gates of Vienna website was thought to be run by European-nationalists rather than actually taking a look at it. Not the first time this sort of thing has happened to me, and certainly not the last.
RKU,
The material at GoV is not typically neoconnish.
See Fjordman's writings:
http://kleinverzet.blogspot.com/p/fjordman-files.html
RKU:
Regarding Baron Bodissey, see:
http://conswede.blogspot.com/2011/07/nazification-spells-and-philosemitic.html
Was Breivik's "zionism" merely a front?
So says blogger Conservative Swede: "Any [European] white right-wing group critical of MC/PC/Immigration/Islam must protect itself from Nazi charges by putting the support of Israel and the Jewish people among its top objectives."
http://conswede.blogspot.com/2011/07/nazification-spells-and-philosemitic.html
...
RKU:
Regarding Baron Bodissey, see:
http://conswede.blogspot.com/2011/07/nazification-spells-and-philosemitic.html
7/26/2011 11:21 PM
The question is whether current black arts technology and knowledge is sufficient for some clandestine organization to create a "Manchurian Candidate" to carry out something like this.
Ted Kaczynski was a prodigy who entered Harvard at the age of 16, and shortly afterward volunteered to be a guinea pig in those "mind control" experiments that the CIA was so big on in the 50's, which was the beginning of the end, for him. To that extent, it's interesting that Breivik cut and pasted so much of the Unabomber's ramblings in his own "manifesto" - if Breivik did, in fact, even write it in the first place - but that doesn't prove anything.
"The well-off" or "white folk?"
Hey, good point. He's well-off, so maybe it says something about the well-off, and he's white, so maybe it says something about whites.
I wonder whether Breivik's "anti-racism" was merely a front.
Breivik IS a race realist. I suspect that he has at least 150 pages in his manifesto on race. I also suspect that he read HBD blogs.
Hey, I see what you mean. Maybe his anti-Islam sentiments, and the Nazism being attributed to him in the press, are merely fronts, too; after all, he didn't murder Muslims, he murdered his fellow Norwegians.
"Hey truth, did you now that Oslo now has a rape rate 7 times that of New york, and despite being less than 10% of the population 66% (some estimate as high as 85%, )of the rapes are committed by 3rd world immigrants- 100% of the victims are Norwegian women."
Well, first of all, your link says nothing of the sort, and second of all, most of the rapes committed in Norway are committed by Aye-Rabs, or as Steve-O and Richard J Hernstein call them, "white folks."
Truth:
I think Mao has Truman beat in the government murder of Asians category, even if you count all the war dead in Japan. Among whites who've ordered the mass murder of Asians, I'm guessing that record is held by some British, French, or Dutch colonial official.
"most of the rapes committed in Norway are committed by Aye-Rabs, or as Steve-O and Richard J Hernstein call them, 'white folks.'"
That Arabs are Caucasian is not much in doubt, SFAIK (though unlike most Caucasians their native language is not an Indo-European one). Whether or not they are "white" is another matter entirely. Whites are a subset of Caucasians.
Steve: For the rest of us, this guy's ability to play a double game of being reasonable on the surface while homicidal underneath is of course going to be incredibly destructive of all anti-multicultural online dissent
i think that's the most tragic aspect of this event. I mean, the hundred dead norwegians is bad enough, but think of the chilling effect it will have on "anti-multicultural online dissent." my god. they should string him up for that alone.
"I think Mao has Truman beat in the government murder of Asians category, even if you count all the war dead in Japan."
They didn't directly murder people though. The guy who dropped the bomb did.
l'infâme said...
"i think that's the most tragic aspect of this event. I mean, the hundred dead norwegians is bad enough, but think of the chilling effect it will have on "anti-multicultural online dissent."
mmm, its too early to tell...in the short term the msm are going to have a field day. but they cannot make all the nasty symptoms of their failed ideology go away.
I see no "field day" for the forces of evil in this. Norway's PM declared everyone has the right to hold and express the shooter's views - the only stipulation being that no one should use violence to enact them.
"Stoltenberg strongly defended the right to speak freely – even if it includes extremist views such as those held by Anders Behring Breivik, the 32-year-old Norwegian who has confessed to the attacks and claimed they were necessary to fight what he called Muslim colonization and multiculturalism.
"'We have to be very clear to distinguish between extreme views, opinions – that's completely legal, legitimate to have. What is not legitimate is to try to implement those extreme views by using violence,' he said in English."
Source.
Most recent statement by PM Stoltenberg.
In the first link, note this sentence:
"The U.S. has been frustrated by what it considers Scandinavia's lack of aggressive investigation and arrests."
The United States is frustrated? Why? WTF business is it of the United States?... Oh, I forgot. The United States contains a very powerful foreign lobby of - um, Norwegians, I guess.
"RKU said...
Here's another amusing detail. The Oslo guy seems to describe his ideology as being that of the "Vienna School", and everyone says he's referring to Gates of Vienna, a leading "Counter-Jihadist" blogsite where his hero Fjordman hangs out. Now I'm not too familiar with GoV myself, but from the chatter I've generally read on rightwing blogsites, I always had the strong impression it was run on a shoestring by a couple of European-nationalist grassroots activists outraged at the influx of immigrant Muslims into their countries.
But after the Oslo guy's rampage, the NYT got in touch with the fellow called Baron something who runs GoV. Turns out he's actually a "consultant" based in the DC area---ha, ha, ha! I'd say the odds are just about 100% he's some paid neocon activist. Now maybe all the rightwingers already knew that their "European nationalist" website was run by a DC neocon...but maybe not.
I think one reason this sort of ideological false-flag operation works so well is that rightwingers tend to be exceptionally dumb and easy to manipulate..."
I think most American white nationalists have long been aware that GoV and that whole milieu are basically neocons pulling the same trick on nationalists that they did on conservatives.
mmm, its too early to tell...in the short term the msm are going to have a field day. but they cannot make all the nasty symptoms of their failed ideology go away.
i was being sarcastic. but thank you for interpreting my comment as a sincere lament.
>i was being sarcastic. but thank you for interpreting my comment as a sincere lament.<
You're welcome. I always take seriously any intelligent comment. I guess I took yours too seriously.
Try [/sarc] at the end of your sarcastic comments so the rest of us can keep up. It works on 90% of people. (Ten percent cannot decipher it but they may be ignored.)
Anders Breivik is a sick,common criminal.I hope, he rots in hell for what he did to those innocent people and anyone who agrees with such scum can join him.I just hope that they bring back the death penalty for creatures like him.
Opposition to large scale Muslim immigration is not limted to the far Right. France's Communist Party favors their deportation. Since Leftists/Marxists hate religion(opiate of the people-according to the "teachings" of Karl Marx), this should suprise no one. One can also expect growing opposition to Islamic extremists, and Muslim immigration, from the generally Leftist wwomen's movement. Over such issues as female genital mutilation, burqas, and other issues. And, with the growing economic crisis, Europeans of any, or no, political opinions, will see immigrants, of any type, as a threat to their jobs9if they still have them0 and their full bellies. Also, the leftist european welfare states are reaching the point where they won't be able to provide services to Europeans; let alone millions of unassimilated foreigners.
Opposition to large scale Muslim immigration is not limted to the far Right. France's Communist Party favors their deportation. Since Leftists/Marxists hate religion(opiate of the people-according to the "teachings" of Karl Marx), this should suprise no one. One can also expect growing opposition to Islamic extremists, and Muslim immigration, from the generally Leftist wwomen's movement. Over such issues as female genital mutilation, burqas, and other issues. And, with the growing economic crisis, Europeans of any, or no, political opinions, will see immigrants, of any type, as a threat to their jobs9if they still have them0 and their full bellies. Also, the leftist european welfare states are reaching the point where they won't be able to provide services to Europeans; let alone millions of unassimilated foreigners.
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