From WCBS in New York:
There were hurt feelings and racial tensions as white applicants were left standing outside a prep class on Wednesday night, reports CBS 2’s Lou Young.
“Whoever’s name is not on the list is not getting in, so were just following orders. That’s just the way it is,” the applicants were told.
Joseph Basile was one of those who didn’t get in.
“It wasn’t a good feeling. It felt like it was discrimination,” Basile said.
The class was conducted by the Vulcan Society, a group of African American firefighters in an overwhelmingly white department. Many applicants who were turned away preregistered online on forms that did not ask for their race, which made for testy moment. ...
Wednesday night’s class was the third in a series of prep exams given by the Vulcan Society. The previous two were integrated. The one Wednesday was the only one from which people were barred from attending.
To the ranks of Tiger Mothers and Eagle Fathers, we can add the Dalmatian Dads of the Fire Department of New York, who encourage their sons and nephews to study hard the family trade of saving people from burning buildings.
"Of course we all know the 15 pt IQ gap between whites and blacks is entirely genetic and has nothing to do with whites being more bookish and nerdy than blacks.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand the entire Asian-White gap exists because those Asians are so studious."
There is a confusion here between intelligence and achievement. Achievement is affected by innate intelligence, but also by hard work. Some people are under-achievers, and others are over-achievers.
The gap in test scores between the groups of firefighters may reflect both innate differences in intelligence and a willingness to study. The average difference in IQ between blacks and whites is substantial and already evident at ages 3-4.
The average difference in IQ between whites and East Asians is comparatively small, but is also evident at ages 3-4. However, the average difference in study time is enormous; in comparison to other population groups East Asians are tremendous over-achievers.
Two points:
ReplyDelete1. Test scores don't matter, right, but the Vulcans beefed up on test prep courses in order to perform well on the tests.
2. The guy representing NYFD's black firefighters in the disparate impact litigation is Jewish - named Levy. Jews make up 2% of the population yet are 105% of attorneys.
Vulcans? So Leonard Nimoy is black?
ReplyDelete...who encourage their nephews to study the family trade of saving people from burning buildings hard.
ReplyDeleteYes, I'm sure it's almost altruistic -- they just want to be devoted public servants etc. Has nothing to do with a bunch of guys of mostly at best average intelligence trying to snag a fat salary, benefits, and pension for doing a low-skill, mostly do-nothing job (note I do say mostly, twice). There's something ineffably sad about the whole spectacle. And that goes double for the associated race brouhaha.
Has anyone else noticed that all the "nurture" explanations for Teh Ghap are all completely insulting to blacks?
ReplyDeleteGranted, they have social pathologies the like of which would kill them without Daddy White Man stepping in.
But, in the midst of all that, they're not as truly awful as they'd have to be for any of the nurture side's explanations to work.
The only things stopping blacks from slapping these arguments - and the people behind them - down are:
(1) They like the money and effort that coems with the attempts to improve them.
Or
(2) They assume that the arguments are directed at other people.
@Anon 7:28am:
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth, *I* think the Asian-White gap is down to IQ. Studiousness helps, but it would not work so well if they didn't have the raw material to start out with.
Maybe that was where answers to the test were to be surreptitiously given out. Is the Vulcan Society and the things they do, such as these classes, self-financed entirely by black contributors or do they get money from other sources?
ReplyDeleteA little off-topic, but that website ["newyork.cbslocal.com"] was allowing unedited comments on the story all weekend*, and it was shocking [but also very, very reassuring] to see the absolute torrent of pent-up rage which the commenters were unleashing.
ReplyDeleteMakes you wonder what iSteve would look like if Komment Kontrol weren't breathing down our necks all the time.
*This morning, it looks like CBS-NY has either turned off the comments altogether, or is at least starting to screen the comments.
I imagine that when all the Scots-Irish arrived for work this morning at CBS-NY, and saw what had been posted while they were gone for the weekend in the Hamptons, they must have been so horrified that they felt as though they had eaten a side of bacon for breakfast.
“It wasn’t a good feeling. It felt like it was discrimination,” Basile said.
ReplyDeleteIt WAS discrimination!
We live in an Orwellian world where the meanings of words are as malleable as wax.
"On the other hand the entire Asian-White gap exists because those Asians are so studious.
ReplyDeleteGo HBD!"
Most HBDers don't claim that. That claim comes far more often egalitarians. Good job failing at insults too.
Why don't whites just form their own groups? What's good for the goose...
ReplyDelete"On the other hand the entire Asian-White gap exists because those Asians are so studious."
ReplyDeleteNo, sweetness, East Asians have higher average IQ than whites. That's a given by Steve and his commenters. Stick around for 15 minutes or so and you'll see.
Asians also are very studious. I don't fully understand their reasoning, but it's because they are less, not more, diligent than whites. Yeah, counterintuitive and my initial reaction was to disagree with it, but I try to have an open mind, so I'm withholding judgment till I"ve had a chance to study and think about it. You should try it.
The title of your article didn't quite fit the content. Since it essentially functions as a thesis, you'd do well by adding a few lines for further explanation. Also the article you quoted was awkward. Perhaps you could find a more coherent version of it online.
ReplyDeletePeople studying too hard...yep, it's all about Asians, even when no Asians are involved, isn't it? Libs are scared to DEATH their kiddies won't get into Harvard because of the Yellow Menace - they STUDY! Eek!
ReplyDeleteThus, the whole thing transfers to any discussion of race.
There are probably both nature and nurture factors and interaction terms: those who are more intelligent get a greater return on their investment of time and get more enjoyment out of activities which exercise the mind.
ReplyDeleteRisto
OT. You know how cigarettes come with warning labels. Do you think all college courses should come with the same, reminding students of success rates in each field and ratio between tuition and financial payoff as career field?
ReplyDeleteFor example, for those majoring in dance or drama, the warning label should say 'only 1 in 1000 graduates find gainful employment in the field'.
"we can add" not had, sweetheart.
ReplyDeleteI wish SWPL liberals /east coast neocon/liberal elite would just be honest about things....
ReplyDeleteWhy do they hate us so much? Is it the 'fear of the cossacks' thing??
Why white folks be studying for the tests and shit when black folks don't? That be racist! It be like them asian mofos in CA studying like they's retarded or something.
ReplyDeleteOf course we all know the 15 pt IQ gap between whites and blacks is entirely genetic and has nothing to do with whites being more bookish and nerdy than blacks.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand the entire Asian-White gap exists because those Asians are so studious.
Who is "we"? I've never heard anyone make that pair of claims.
Anonymous: "On the other hand the entire Asian-White gap exists because those Asians are so studious"
ReplyDeleteNot agree. "g" regulates the rate of learning. A low IQ is a liability, whether you are studious or not.
Furthermore:
http://menghusblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/parent-and-family-involvement-in-education.pdf
"Homework checking varied by race/ethnicity and poverty status according to parent reports. At the K through 8th-grade level, a greater percentage of Black students (98 percent) had homework checked by an adult than White (94 percent), Hispanic (96 percent), and Asian (88 percent) students. Similarly, at the 9th- through 12th-grade level, a greater percentage of Black students (83 percent) had homework checked by an adult than parents of White (57 percent) and Asian (59 percent) students."
Hey, first Anon,
ReplyDeletePeople with decent IQs also think it pays off to study.
There are too many white firefighters who study too hard and artificially skew the composition of qualified firefighters.
ReplyDeleteIf these people would stop gaming the system there would be the correct amount of blacks admitted.
ReplyDeleteso we're just following orders
(Error in the original fixed.)
I seem to recall that at some momentous occasion in the past that excuse was not acceptable ...
Can't for the life of me remember, though.
firefighters? forget that. the EU has reached sheer insanity. in europe the battle cry apparently is "Not enough women!"
ReplyDeleteNYT http://tinyurl.com/76nwj65
AP http://tinyurl.com/6rad3of
corporate executives may be required by law to be 40% women. enforced by quotas, of course. and completely insane. many EU nations are in a recession, and by far the most important thing is that capable men are removed from executive positions and replaced by affirmative action women?
note the now mandatory language about how this won't cost the companies, it will actually benefit them. "Women do not mean cost for companies. Women mean a benefit. Women mean business,"
it doesn't even make sense. companies are out for profit. it changing half their executives to women would increase their profit 50%, they would have done it 100 years ago.
... 'we can /add/ the Dalmation Dads'
ReplyDeleteSo, the implication is that only black applicants were allowed into the test prep? The article never explicitly says that, only that your name had to be on a certain list.
ReplyDeleteWaiting for the post on Obama's tranny nanny.
ReplyDeletehttp://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-obamas-transgender-ex-nanny-outcast-070907242.html
"Hurt feelings." Sometimes I look at this country, recall the Jeffersonian ideal of a sturdy peasant yeomanry, and weep.
ReplyDeleteStudying hard is cheating! Just ask those Asians!
ReplyDelete"Dalmatian Dads..."
ReplyDeletePerfect!
"Why white folks be studying for the tests and shit when black folks don't? That be racist! It be like them asian mofos in CA studying like they's retarded or something."
ReplyDeleteLMAO, your attempt at ebonics suggests that you're retarted...and you've been watching too much Sanford and Son on TBS.
"Has nothing to do with a bunch of guys of mostly at best average intelligence trying to snag a fat salary, benefits, and pension for doing a low-skill, mostly do-nothing job "
ReplyDeleteDo I detect a little sinecure envy? Like the rest of us, you must have the hardest job in the world, with the worst compensation.
One reason I turned down an acceptance and partial scholarship to EE at a famous engineering college was that I knew my shot at a design engineering slot was going to be tough because I'd be competing against a lot of Asians who would work harder than I would, yes, and be better at test taking, yes, but also would never have the creativity I had at finding non-cookbook solutions. By that time I had designed half a dozen new circuits which got implemented in revenue production as a test technician, and had a lucrative part time guitar amp repair business on the side.
ReplyDeleteI knew that unless I graduated in the top five percent of my class, I'd be facing a "service engineer" (glorified technician) or "sales engineer" (salesman) job from any first tier company-even second tier-if I was lucky enough to get that. The design engineer slots would go to Asians, who would proceed to cookbook and kludge their way (but with great intensity) to success but likely never come up with anything really fundamentally new or creative.
It would work better if they made the Asians the service engineers, where diligence and puzzle solving count for more than creativity, but the MBAs that run the electronics business can't understand that.
@ Jody.
ReplyDeleteTrue if women were equal and only earning 80c to the man's $ then any business would be a fool not to hire 1/.8 women.
Do I detect a little sinecure envy?
ReplyDeleteDon't know if you detect it or not. If you do, it's time to have your malfunctioning detector checked. Like maybe check it at the door next time.
New York City Fire Department - Benefits and Salary
After five years they earn $100k, including "fringe benefits". And don't forget about that "Generous pension".
Pigs jockeying for position at the trough.
Hey, y'all boy Rush is about to get a vacation for calling a white woman a nappy headed ho!
ReplyDelete"Hey, y'all boy Rush is about to get a vacation for calling a white woman a nappy headed ho!"
ReplyDeleteWhat's funny is how she completely was a ho, whereas Imus had no basis for what he said (unless he knew way more about that basketball team than we did).
My (white)female cousin attended law school at a Big East Conference basketball (Catholic) school.
ReplyDeleteThe day before big tests, the Black student association would have meetings with a faculty member. Rumors abounded that the faculty adviser gave out answers to the test.
My cousin tried to attend one meeting and was promptly thrown out.
Of course we all know the 15 pt IQ gap between whites and blacks is entirely genetic and has nothing to do with whites being more bookish and nerdy than blacks.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand the entire Asian-White gap exists because those Asians are so studious.
Go HBD!
Here's the thing:
Intensity of educational experience is far more similar between Whites and Blacks than Whites and Asians, while Whites and Asians are more similar in actual educational accomplistment than Whites and Blacks.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110505103345.htm
"Asian high-school students spend significantly more time studying and doing homework, Ramey found, than any other ethnic or racial group. Averaged over the entire year (including summer vacations), the average, non-Hispanic white student spends 5.5 hours per week studying and doing homework, while Hispanic and non-Hispanic black students spend even less (if you check the graphs Blacks spend 3 hours on homework, while Hispanics spend 4.95 hours) . In contrast, the average Asian student spends a whopping 13 hours per week. Parents' educational levels do not explain the differences, Ramey said, as these become even greater if the sample is limited to children who have at least one parent with a college degree.
The average Asian high-school student does not fit every aspect of Chua's prescription for her daughters, Ramey discovered. In particular, the average Asian student spends no more time practicing and performing music, about the same amount of time watching TV, and more time playing on the computer. But Asians do spend less time on sports and socializing than any of the other ethnic groups. The biggest difference, though, is in time spent working at a job: White students spend 5.8 hours per week on average, and Asian students spend only 2.4 hours."
The White-Asian homework time gap, assuming this is a proxy for overall educational intensity, is around 3 times the size of the White-Black homework gap, while the White-Black educational outcome gap is is around 3 times the size of the Asian-White educational outcome gap.
Assuming a linear relationship and that all of the Asian advantage over Whites is from study (unlikely, more like half at best), Blacks would only very slightly close their gap by adopting White study habits.
Maybe if were's talking in IQ point terms, assuming all the Asian advantage is study based, they gain a point.
In addition, Blacks are more into the "intellectual culture" in other ways - they're the group most likely to go on to university when scaled to their SAT scores (Whites are least - Asians may not go to prestigious schools as often due to AA, but they go to a school more often than Whites, relative to their already impressive SATs - although Japanese Asians beat them out as less university educated relative to their SATs).
"The day before big tests, the Black student association would have meetings with a faculty member. Rumors abounded that the faculty adviser gave out answers to the test.
ReplyDeleteMy cousin tried to attend one meeting and was promptly thrown out."
1. grading is blind
2. stuff happens, not always racially based. profs have their pets.
3. what kind of test was it? multiple choice? That'd be stupid. If it was essay, what "answer" could they be given?
"note the now mandatory language about how this won't cost the companies, it will actually benefit them. "Women do not mean cost for companies. Women mean a benefit. Women mean business,"
ReplyDeleteit doesn't even make sense"
Sure it does. You just need to get the most current NewSpeak dictionary.
If gov't is going to fine you for not employing as many women as they think you should, then if you have enough women, you don't have the cost of gov't fines, and you can continue to stay in business.
"LMAO, your attempt at ebonics suggests that you're retarted..."
ReplyDeleteIf failing ebonics suggests "retarted,"
what is suggested when someone doesn't know that the word in English he wants is "retarded"?
Maybe I am having a bad day today, so I am going to ask this anonymously.
ReplyDeleteWhat does 'Dalmatian Dad' mean?
I'm surprised by the TV part but not surprised at all about hours spend on video games and computer. I remember seeing a survey showing that Asian kids watched the least TV.
ReplyDelete3. what kind of test was it? multiple choice? That'd be stupid. If it was essay, what "answer" could they be given?
ReplyDeleteAre you serious? They don't need the fricking answer! If given the essay question 24 hours in advance, they should presumably come up with the answer.
In the U.S., it's a tradition that Dalmatian-breed dogs are kept at fire houses as mascots and sometimes ride along on fire engines.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteWhat does 'Dalmatian Dad' mean?
Dalmations are the traditional fireman's dog.
"Pigs jockeying for position at the trough."
ReplyDeleteFirst, why not get the best quality pig for the money? Isn't that at least a start?
I agree, it is probably the best of the risky civil service jobs - all of the other ones involve baby sitting low lives. But it never seems to pop up in the corruption exposes like janitoring or building inspecting.
Maybe it pays too much and the retirement is too early. Should we lower the pay until people start to quit?
What irks me more is low income apartments in luxury Manhattan buildings - talk about lucky pigs!
Disparate impact and Congress.
ReplyDeleteIt must be raciss to go after poor ethics among those in Congress.
I wonder if we will see a Supreme Court case out of this?
(Quick, look the other way so I can move all that green out of my freezer.)
Here's what Rush is:
ReplyDeleteRush to Apology
"LMAO, your attempt at ebonics suggests that you're retarted..."
ReplyDeleteC'mon Truth, why the schoolyard insults? There must be a Cultural Studies paper you could cite proving that Ebonics is complex as Mandarin; older than
Sanskrit; lyrical as Persian; logical as German; harder than Hebrew and appears on more public buildings than Ancient Greek.
Gilbert Pinfold.
My father was a NYC firefighter and pushed me to take the test. I took it in 1983 as a 19 year old. It was 50/50, written and physical test at the time. The written test was very easy and I got a 96, the physical test was still very difficult and I got a 85 on that. I'm not sure whether there was any litigation about that test, but I never got called as my number was too low and I did not take the test again.
ReplyDeleteWhat this brouhaha again highlights is the importance of prep schools. Maybe if the parents of ethnic whites: irish, italian, slavic etc prepped their kids for the SATs instead of fireman and policeman tests we would see more of them in schools like Stuyvesant and colleges like Harvard where they all are heavily under-represented?
ReplyDeleteFor example muslim bangladeshis are a very tiny minority in New York, a small fraction of the irish and italians, yet they are disproportionally represented in the elite schools of NY: Stuyvesant, Bronx High School of Science, Brooklyn Tech. Why? Because of the Khan Tutorial prep schools that cater to the NYC bangladeshi students. And these are mostly children of taxi drivers and restaurant workers. In the Bronx High School of Science there are some 200 bangladeshi-american students out of a total enrollment of ~2400 from a poor community of less than 1% of NYC residents.
While I understand the attraction of continuing a family tradition of firefighting, I don't get the need to do that firefighting in NYC.
ReplyDeleteIn some ways those Whites got lucky. Now they can apply to a FD in a town with a lot fewer problems fighting fires-and which may be in far better fiscal condition.
Its an ill wind...
On the other hand the entire Asian-White gap exists because those Asians are so studious.
ReplyDeleteGo HBD!
Nice sleight of hand there. But the real gap that needs explaining is the achievement gap. As in, the non-credentials achievement gap.
Why Asians Lag needs some 'splainin IMO.
"Are you serious? They don't need the fricking answer! If given the essay question 24 hours in advance, they should presumably come up with the answer."
ReplyDeleteYou've been "given" the answer all through the semester. If they aren't smart, 24 hours won't help.
For what it's worth, *I* think the Asian-White gap is down to IQ. Studiousness helps, but it would not work so well if they didn't have the raw material to start out with.
ReplyDeleteFor all we know, conscientiousness is raw material. Why does everyone act like they know for sure that it isn't? Most of this HBD stuff is mostly about aggregates, after all.
For all we know, conscientiousness is raw material. Why does everyone act like they know for sure that it isn't?
ReplyDeleteConscientiousness changes over time. Generations within the same family can vary dramatically in this quality. You wouldn't need Tiger Moms or Dalmatian Dads otherwise. Right?
On the other hand IQ is claimed to be written in stone by some, including you I assume...
"C'mon Truth, why the schoolyard insults?"
ReplyDeleteYou don't think one should attempt to be exemplary at everything he does?
"What's funny is how she completely was a ho"
ReplyDeleteLimbaugh's been divorced 3 times.
"Woman inspector humiliated failing fitness test and gets set her own personal standard."
ReplyDeleteWoman humiliated by her failure to write her name in the snow, sues half the human race.
Makes you wonder what iSteve would look like if Komment Kontrol weren't breathing down our necks all the time.
ReplyDeleteCome on, be fair. Steve's moderation is very lenient. You'd be hard pressed to find less censorship among professional blogs. If you want rage, go to "forums".
"Makes you wonder what iSteve would look like if Komment Kontrol weren't breathing down our necks all the time."
ReplyDeleteHere, here.
Go to Stormfront, Komment Kontroll Kornball.
"Limbaugh's been divorced 3 times."
ReplyDeleteNon sequitur du jour, courtesy of Truth.
@ eh:
ReplyDelete"Pigs jockeying for position at the trough."
1. grading is blind
ReplyDeleteBullshit.
Schools claim that grading is blind. You have no way of knowing that the claim is true.
"Non sequitur du jour, courtesy of Truth."
ReplyDeleteYou don't think divorcing 3 women is "slutty" behavior?
I was always told you married once and for life.
Defeated said... “I agree, it is probably the best of the risky civil service jobs - all of the other ones involve baby sitting low lives. “
ReplyDeleteTalk to some firefighter/paramedics or EMTs about babysitting low lives. You will hear many depressing stories.
In the U.S., it's a tradition that Dalmatian-breed dogs are kept at fire houses as mascots and sometimes ride along on fire engines.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention that Dalmatian has a particularly appropriate meaning in racial discussions :)
@Anonymous 3/5/12 7:59 PM
ReplyDeleteI knew someone was going to post something like that...
It's worth a response, albeit barely.
Look: I know that fireman -- also the police of course -- perform needed services, mostly conscientiously and pretty well; I have no desire to minimize that basic fact. For example, I'd prefer to live in a community with a professional fire department rather than volunteers. Nor did I mean to in any way disparage any particular group, e.g. the NY firefighters who died on 9/11.
But that does not change the fact that firefighters spend the vast majority of their time not fighting fires -- either doing nothing, or with 'make work' activities. Just like most police officers never fire their weapon during an entire career. Which is not to say both never experience dangerous moments, for which training is necessary. And thanks.
So my opinion/analogy about this particular spectacle is unchanged: pigs jockeying for positions at the trough. To paint it any other way -- e.g. as if they just want to serve the public by fighting fires -- is, quite honestly, ludicrous and dishonest.
"I was a laughing stock sobs 5' 1" firefighter"
ReplyDeleteThat's a story from England... How about here, in America? Is there a shortage of little damsels in the fire fighting business? You know, in the interest of a more enriching environment for all involved?
The reason I ask is that I know someone who's 5'1", and she would actually WANT to be on permanent desk duty because she doesn't want to ever run into a burning building. And she would never, ever, ever drag anyone to court because of locker rooms or dirty jokes or not liking what the guys are watching on TV. She'd change in the car, smile sweetly and bring a book for when she's bored. She'd even bring home made cookies! Now, is that a great deal for any fire department in America, or what! So... How would such a person go about dropping hints and getting herself hired?
"Schools claim that grading is blind. You have no way of knowing that the claim is true."
ReplyDeleteArgumentum ad ignoratium, then?
I was always told you married once and for life.
ReplyDeleteYes, black males have a lot to teach the world about marital fidelity and the sanctity of the nuclear family.
The rational, though wasteful and annoying (to the sparks) response is to require a college degree to become a firefighter. Such a scheme can be marketed to the leftist dweebs who infest government agencies and the courts (they're all credentialed, proud of it, and quite sure that everyone ought to emulate them) and it will discourage the NAM's with little patience for the classroom. The sparks have only a little more patience, perhaps, but it will be enough.
ReplyDeleteArgumentum ad ignoratium [sic], then?
ReplyDeleteA misspelling is always hilarious in a context like this.
I was a laughing stock sobs 5' 1" firefighter
ReplyDeleteWas this 5'1" firefighter a 210 lb (muscle not fat) Turkish weight lifter?
Not to mention that Dalmatian has a particularly appropriate meaning in racial discussions
ReplyDeleteDalmatia is part of Croatia, isn't it?
"Was this 5'1" firefighter a 210 lb (muscle not fat) Turkish weight lifter?"
ReplyDeleteNo, it was a dainty lady, a former teacher, no less. We are tragically underrepresented in the firehouses of America. I think I could really brighten up a commons room.
"A misspelling is always hilarious in a context like this."
ReplyDeleteHey, argumentum ad hominem! "You spelled it wrong; therefore you're wrong!" Anything to help your ego, champ. Sorry it's so fragile. You getting help?
Anonymous 3/5/12 7:59 PM here,
ReplyDeleteWould you put your life on the line for a yearly $100k?
I dont know if I would.
A great number, if not the majority, are volunteer, not career firefighters. They may provide this invaluable service out of a sense of deep calling or even sheer altruism.
It doesn't surprise me that this may appear ludicrous and dishonest to some.
Whatever the motivations of these guys, your snarky comment was unwarranted.
"Truth said...
ReplyDelete""Makes you wonder what iSteve would look like if Komment Kontrol weren't breathing down our necks all the time.""
Here, here.
Go to Stormfront, Komment Kontroll Kornball."
Well, at least we agree on something. That guy needs to Kool it and Khill at someone elses Krib. I'm sure we would all say: "Kiao!"
I'm surprised by the TV part but not surprised at all about hours spend on video games and computer. I remember seeing a survey showing that Asian kids watched the least TV.
ReplyDeleteIf it's the same survey I saw, it showed that Blacks watch 7 hours of TV a day, Whites 5, and Asians 2 (or was it 3?).
5-7 hours of TV a day...average... is just an amazing figure.
Conscientiousness changes over time. Generations within the same family can vary dramatically in this quality. You wouldn't need Tiger Moms or Dalmatian Dads otherwise. Right?
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand IQ is claimed to be written in stone by some, including you I assume...
No, I think environment affects IQ. I just think people have some wild ideas about how much, and perhaps more importantly, how much it can affect the gaps. And I think people tend to overestimate just how much environment actually varies; they blow small environmental differences out of proportion so they can shoehorn the gaps into them.
As for generations within the same family, well, I did say I was talking about aggregates. Keep in mind that conscientiousness is intertwined with work and reward (i.e., is the rich boy really less conscientious, just because he doesn't work hard? Hard to tell, unless we throw him into a situation where he has to work hard to succeed). I don't claim to know anything here - I really was just asking a question.
Svigor:If it's the same survey I saw, it showed that Blacks watch 7 hours of TV a day, Whites 5, and Asians 2 (or was it 3?).
ReplyDeleteFull paper's here:
http://weber.ucsd.edu/~vramey/research/Tiger_Mothers.pdf
Ethnicity TV per week
Asian 13.6 hrs
White 13.7 hrs
Black 17.6 hrs
Hispanic 15.6 hrs
Assuming equal hours spent each day
Ethnicity TV per week
Asian 1.94 hrs
White 1.95 hrs
Black 2.51 hrs
Hispanic 2.29 hrs
Full paper's here
ReplyDeleteYeah, different study/survey. I may be an hour off on Yellows, but I distinctly remember 7 hours per day average for Blacks, and 5 for Whites.
Your study is much more heartening. :)