On the Today Show today, there was the following exchange between interviewer Ann Curry and the mother of the late Trayvon, Sybrina Fulton:
Q.: I want to ask Tracy and Sybrina, either of you can take this question. If you were to come face to face with George Zimmerman, what do you want to tell him? What do you want to ask him?
A.: One of the things that I still believe in: a person should apologize when they are actually remorseful for what they've done. I believe it was an accident. I believe that it just got out of control, and he couldn't turn the clock back. I would ask him, did he know that that was a minor, that that was a teenager and that he did not have a weapon? I would ask him -- that I understand that his family is hurting, but think about our family that lost our teenage son. I mean, it's just very difficult to live with day in and day out. I'm sure his parents can pick up the phone and call him, but we can't pick up the phone and call Trayvon anymore.
That seems about the most sensible thing anybody has had to say so far about this tragic mess-up.
Not surprisingly, a few hours later, it was retracted.
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124 comments:
Not just retracted, lawyered.
She said, "we believe Zimmerman stalked our son and shot him in cold blood"...
LOL
Interesting to speculate that a face-to-face heartfelt explanation and apology, might have aborted this whole lynching.
Could it be that Trayvon's parents were just trying to put a little pressure on the Sanford PD and now things have spiraled totally out of their control?
Like Tawana Brawley, who was just a 15 y/o trying to escape another beating at the hands of her mother for staying out too late?
Fuller quote of Fulton's retraction statement (link) --
"Earlier today, I made a comment to the media that was later mischaracterized. When I referenced the word ‘accident’ today with regard to Trayvon’s death, in NO way did I mean the shooting was an accident. We believe that George Zimmerman stalked my son and murdered him in cold blood. The ‘accident’ I was referring to was the fact that George Zimmerman and my son ever crossed paths. It was an accidental encounter. If George Zimmerman hadn’t gotten out of his vehicle, this entire incident would have been avoided. My son was profiled, followed and murdered by George Zimmerman, and there was nothing accidental about that."
The problem is that even if Zimmerman feels remorse of the "I wish this hadn't happened" variety, he'd be an idiot to say so publicly, because it would be used to imply guilt. Saying "I'm sorry" can make you liable, no matter how you mean it.
How far from home was Zimmerman when the shooting happened?
Can Z get a change of venue?
Can Florida go after the Black Panthers? Are there only federal laws on the "reward"?
Goatweed
"When I referenced the word 'accident' today with regard to Trayvon's death, in NO way did I mean the shooting was an accident," Fulton said. "My son was profiled, followed and murdered by George Zimmerman, and there was nothing accidental about that."
I know exactly how she feels. Just the other day I referenced the word "accident" to the rape/torture/murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom and everyone IMMEDIATELY starting jumping on my case!
Wha' ha' happened was.... Martin attacked George. He didn't know that George was carrying. I'll buy "mistake" on the assailant's part, but not "accident" on the part of the victim. Nice try on the mom's part, though.
Certainly in the poerson of Attorney Crump,Tom Wolfe's fiction has been outdone by truth.Crump? Really??
"Not surprisingly, a few hours later, it was retracted."
The change from her sensible statement to the current "cold blood" one is shocking. Doubtless her vulture lawyers and Sharpton et al got to her. May they all burn in Hell.
Ha, ha! I'll bet that once people start checking, they'll discover that Lil' Trayvon's extended family and friends has been involved in lots and lots of these sorts of "unfortunate accidents" over the years.
And Mrs. Trayvon is a fair-minded individual, not a bigot or a racist. So why should she be particularly angry at Zimmerman over his "accident" compared to the twenty or thirty other such "accidents" that had previously touched her life and the lives of her friends. Just as long as poor Zimmerman agrees to apologize, the whole thing will be forgiven and forgotten...
I guess what she said was an accident.
A veritable Rodney King moment. Somehow they never seem to last.
NBC "News" (yes, "News" in scare quotes, since NBC is one of the most egregious organs of Media-Pravda) this evening reported that on the police phone call recording Zimmerman said, "They always get away."
Martin's mother said she takes these words to be proof that Zimmerman was "profiling" Martin.
NBC "News" did nothing to discourage its viewers from forming an alternative take on "They always get away"; for example, that Zimmerman may well have meant that he has no power to detain a suspect and has always had to cease surveillance of suspects when they leave his watch area. It could also have been that in Zimmerman's experience his phone calls to police hadn't gotten the police on-scene in time for the police to detain and question the suspicious characters Zimmerman has reported to the police.
Nope, none of those possibilities will Media-Pravda countenance, let alone investigate, because for Media-Pravda it is always, "White racism (and Islamophobia) yesterday, white racism (
and Islamophibia) now, white racism (and Islamophobia) forever."
Of course you won't hear such obvious - to you and me- speculation to what else "They always get away" may have meant from Media-Pravda or from any of the Diversity Fairytale talking heads that Media-carefully chooses and whose commentary Media-Pravda expertly edits to get across the "message" that Media-Pravda wants to get across. Nope, "They always get away" can and must always and only mean one thing: white racist profiling.
Steve, According to Sailer's Law of Personal Energy you are heading for a manic episode over this farce. It's not worth it. People can see what's happening in Florida.
Gilbert Pinfold.
Steve is spraying typos all over his posts. Steve, forget it. You did what you could. Now crack open a beer and move on to the next thang. Put an S on "calls" in the title of this post and get happy.
What kind of mother gets her son's name trademarked after he's shot? It just rubs me the wrong way.
I'm broken-hearted. My son is dead.He's been shot.I think I'll just run over to my attorney's office and trademark his name and sell some t-shirts.
The whole Trayvon/Zimmerman incident is starting to look like a staged and scripted event.How quick the black panthers and neo-nazis descended on Sanford.Almost on cue.
Nothing about this whole affair seems spontaneous to me. Joe
Even the original statement was nonsensical, it obviously being irrelevant that Martin was a minor. Is it possible blacks are in denial about how dangerous their kids are? A 35 year-old black guy once told me that if I'd gone to his high school, "you wouldn't have lasted a week."
Radley Balko points to another case nearby where it looked a lot like self-defense but prosecutors were pressured to charge the shooter. He was convicted.
Yes, this went far beyond a retraction. It was a repudiation of everything she said earlier.
RKU said,
"Just as long as poor Zimmerman agrees to apologize, the whole thing will be forgiven and forgotten..."
Truth may be stranger than fiction. ABC quoted Zimmerman's lawyer that he is open to apologizing with all the usual caveats.
Nobody else has said or mentioned this, but I will... Zimmerman is extremely pleasant looking and just looks so nice. Seriously, he looks almost angelic in his mug shot and the way he gazed today.
He looks nothing like the old booking photo.
If indeed the prosecution is counting on Z's words, already subjected to endless scrutiny, that "they always get away", as importance evidence that Z was "profiling" Martin, and was, therefore, of "depraved mind", then that tells us all we need to know about the strength of the prosecution's case.
It is truly child's play to put another exceedingly reasonable construction on those words that involve nothing remotely resembling racial profiling.
They better have something a thousand times better up their sleeve, or this is going to be very embarrassing for them.
"Can Florida go after the Black Panthers? Are there only federal laws on the "reward"?"
What about going after Spike Lee?
Her statement actually makes the situation worse. If she thought he acted in malice, then all the hoopla could actually be about justice. But if her statement reflects her real state of mind, it means she's just out for revenge--of the "look how I'm hurting, so I want to hurt you back" variety.
"look how I'm hurting, so I want to hurt you back"
That's a pretty normal way to feel.
Note to self: when police dispatcher says "we don't need you to do that," attorneys hear "do not pursue the suspect or any violence the suspect perpetrates against you will be justified in the eyes of the law"
"Steve is spraying typos all over his posts. Steve, forget it. You did what you could. Now crack open a beer and move on to the next thang. Put an S on "calls" in the title of this post and get happy."
I thought "Trayvon's mom call it an accident" was just Steve's attempt at ebonics. I kind of like it, it puts me in mind of something Sleepy John Estes might sing.
I bet all this material just falling into his lap makes Steve happy. He's gotten pretty good mileage out of it so far.
Not just retracted, lawyered.
She said, "we believe Zimmerman stalked our son and shot him in cold blood"...
If that's lawyered, it's very badly lawyered inasmuch as that statement exposes her to libel liability.
"But if her statement reflects her real state of mind, it means she's just out for revenge--of the 'look how I'm hurting, so I want to hurt you back' variety."
What's wrong with that? Why do people always say, "So-and-so just wants revenge" as though that was inherently a bad thing?
A revenge all out of proportion to whatever set it in motion is wrong but I look at revenge as putting the scales back in balance. In Innocent Blood P.D. James muses, "Perhaps that was why revenge was so satisfying; it worked."
Call Trayvon's mother out for the tawdry exploitation of her son's death but not for any presumed desire for revenge. It's possible to hold opposing viewpoints simultaneously. She may very well feel devastated by her loss in between discussions of how best to profit from it.
Trayvon's mom is surprisingly reasonable, considering she just lost her son. She must be a pretty good person.
An accident is still a bigger payoff in the civil suit than justifiable homicide.
But really, she wasn't there, so her opinion about what really happened is as irrelevant now as when she was calling for justice for Trayvon.
May they all burn in Hell.
Do you ever wonder whether the standards for eternal damnation are different for folks with IQs in the 80s, 70s, and 60s than they are for folks with IQs in the 120s, 130s, and 140s?
The latter group is certainly going to have a more difficult time pleading ignorance.
And do you suppose that the titillation of evil is experienced differently by the two groups, or do you suppose that it's largely the same thrill?
Zimmerman was a self-identified Hispanic and registered Democrat before all this mess. He probably moderately favored the idea of identity politics. After this is all over, I'll be interested to hear if he's changed his mind about anything.
Did anyone else see Dershowitz on Hardball mocking the prosecution's case and tearing it apart for its flimsiness?
I was pleasantly surprised at his vitriol in this. I wonder what he sees coming down the road to take this stance and swim against the narrative so strongly?
Anon @ 6:50
Presuming you're speaking of Christian teaching:
But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.
Luke 12:48 (Excerpt from Christ's teaching)
From that, one would expect the standards would be higher for those gifted with more (resources, intelligence, charisma etc).
I liked the title of this entry better when it was more vibrant.
If she hadn't sent Trayvon "NLN" Martin to stay with his latchkey dad*, he'd be alive today.
If latchkey dad had brought his son along to dinner, instead of ditching him, he'd be alive today.
*(who leaves a "child" alone at home-away-from-home to go out to dinner?)
Dershowitz says arrest affidavit is so flimsy as to be "irresponsible and unethical".
http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/04/12/alan_dershowitz_zimmerman_arrest_affidavit_irresponsible_and_unethical.html
He's not popular around here I'm sure but, you can't say he isn't smart + knowledgeable.
Does anyone think Alan Dershowitz might be getting ready to join team Zimmerman?
Henry Orient said...
Henry Orient! You mean you're this Henry Orient?
Henry Orient Plays The Henry Orient Concerto
Can I have your autograph?
This is by far the (unintentionally)funniest neocon rant about arts/culture I've ever read. It's totally cuckoo-bananas and reads like a parody of rightwing fuming about liberal/leftist control of culture. Everyone's reduced into a cartoon with a few choice quotes(as if their entire body of work can be summed up that way), and the grand theory as to how highbrow intellectuals killed culture connects the dots in the weirdest ways, from Mencken to Ortega to Huxley to Howe to Sontag to MacDonald, and etc. But I must say the Irving Howe quote comparing Donald Duck to the Nazi SS is a riot.
Btw, the word NOXIOUS again:
"The wildly successful attack on American popular culture in the 1950s was an outgrowth of NOXIOUS ideas that consumed the intellectual classes of the West in the first five decades of the 20th century."
I hear it so often now. "Noxious" is the new "racist".
"Zimmerman was a self-identified Hispanic and registered Democrat before all this mess. He probably moderately favored the idea of identity politics. After this is all over, I'll be interested to hear if he's changed his mind about anything."
I feel sorry for him. La Raza won't have him and declared its support of Martin.
And whites won't have him and call him 'Hispanic'.
Okay, I'll take him. He's my homeboy. But I think he should change his name to George Dylan and sing a few songs... though hopefully not 'the answer my friend, is blowing away Trayvon, the answer is blowing away the Trayvon Martin.'
"I'll buy "mistake" on the assailant's part, but not "accident" on the part of the victim."
Now there's a shock.
"So why should she be particularly angry at Zimmerman over his "accident" compared to the twenty or thirty other such "accidents" that had previously touched her life and the lives of her friends."
Oh, I don't know, Sport, but I'm willing to try on "because her son is dead" as an option.
"who leaves a "child" alone at home-away-from-home to go out to dinner?"
Oh, so a 17-year-old is a "child" again now?
Zimmerman isn't rich. It's more like Bonfire of the Inanities.
I'd love for Dershowitz to volunteer his legal services to GZ.
I know he's been steaming about how the Obama/Holder duo has handled this and he's no fan of Obama for other reasons, as we know.
Some things are too terrible to mention.
If Zimmerman is sentenced to anything, it will be x years and gay rape, or x years and murder.
The number of male on male rapes may exceed those on women(in the US); of course almost all of the gay rapes are in prison, and surprise, surprise, almost all of it black on white.
What drives the black male passion for white men? No wonder black women are so damn angry.
Seriously, there should be separate prisons for different races. Rape is cruel and unusual punishment. No white parent gives his kid The Talk about how to stay safe in prison. Judges don't impose rape as a punishment, but, in reality, they are.
Anon at 3:06 said,
"Interesting to speculate that a face-to-face heartfelt explanation and apology, might have aborted this whole lynching."
Nope, the mother wouldn't have done anything differently because this whole thing has been orchestrated by the race hustlers.
She always said she "wanted an arrest" and "nothing more."
Huh? Can she be that dumb? Arrests don't take place unless authorities determine a crime has taken place and if they so determine that and feel they can get a conviction, then they'll arrest.
She seems to think a person can simply be arrested, even when authorities are not sure of the evidence, then the person can say "sorry" and nothing else happens.
She baffles me, but she has repeatedly said, "We *just* want him arrested," as if arrests don't lead to anything else. Weird.
"Earlier today, I made a comment to the media that was later mischaracterized. When I referenced the word ‘accident’ today with regard to Trayvon’s death, in NO way did I mean the shooting was an accident. We believe that George Zimmerman stalked my son and murdered him in cold blood. The ‘accident’ I was referring to was the fact that George Zimmerman and my son ever crossed paths. It was an accidental encounter. If George Zimmerman hadn’t gotten out of his vehicle, this entire incident would have been avoided. My son was profiled, followed and murdered by George Zimmerman, and there was nothing accidental about that."****************************
Wow. I saw both her video this morning and now read this statment. What a POS.
Alan Dershowitz on Hardball came to the conclusion that the prosecutor overcharged for political reasons in the Zimmerman case. More detail,but basically what I said earlier.
He says, correctly, that it is unethical to overcharge to get a plea bargain. It is, but it is a common practice. Another version is to offer a lighter sentence on the original charge.
http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/04/war-on/
"look how I'm hurting, so I want to hurt you back"
Steve S : "That's a pretty normal way to feel.'
Not normal to say in an interview what you seem to really be thinking and feeling--that this was a tragedy that played out because of accidental, happenstance--everything that could have gone wrong, everything that could have been miscontrued by two parties did go wrong--then after your race hustlers get ahold of you , you suddenly believe the "accident" was murder?
Ms Fulton, Trayvon's mother, filed applications with the U.S. Trademark and Patent Office to seek ownership of the phrases 'I Am Trayvon' and 'Justice for Trayvon’ which supporters have adopted as rallying cries.
Yeah, she sounds like a real sweetie-pie.
Why should random strangers in the T-shirt business make money off your family's tragedy but not you?
Funny, I read her original comments as an admission that the evidence of Zimmerman's criminal guilt is so thin that he'll most likely be acquitted, i.e., that she wanted to be on the right side of history while still acknowledging the tragedy.
It is indeed appropriate to praise Trayvon's mother for her empathy. Is it appropriate to praise the entire black community in America for its restraint? Why aren't black people rioting? Why haven't there been any Rodney King-scale riots since Rodney King? What kind of incident would it take to make black people riot? Is it harder for black people to riot due to factors external to their community, like stronger police forces? Is it harder to get riots started due to factors within black communities? For example, maybe Charles Murray's theory about more efficient sorting by IQ is bringing all the halfway smart mover-and-shaker types out of ghettos and into the middle class where they would loose their good jobs if they started rioting. Maybe there aren't enough people with the motivation, chrisma, and other capacities that are necessary to organize and incite riots. This sort of thing should be easier now that flash mobs can be assembled with cell phones, but maybe there just doesn't exist the critical mass of smart-ish, highly intuitive, and highly impulsive people with the ability to get a city-wide riot off the ground.
Do you ever wonder whether the standards for eternal damnation are different for folks with IQs in the 80s, 70s, and 60s than they are for folks with IQs in the 120s, 130s, and 140s?
I'm no expert but one gets the vague sense that in most of the world's religions that have a concept of afterlife reward and punishment, its humans that fall into hell, and since human is really just a grade of animal, it would follow logically that the IQ of the sentient being in question correlates with its capacity for both evil and good. Therefore it would follow that the smarter you are the greater your capacity for bad intent and the negative karma that must follow.
While that's just speculation on my part, a more down-to-earth consideration is that, legally speaking, responsibility and rights go hand in hand. If people think that a low IQ can excuse one from a punishment they should also ask that low IQ people be stripped of their rights too, but that kind of consistency is too much to ask for these days.
Why should random strangers in the T-shirt business make money off your family's tragedy but not you?
Because people are not [always] utility maximizers. A mother concerned with money at a time of her child's death is an unnatural (not adaptive) human response.
Does anyone think Alan Dershowitz might be getting ready to join team Zimmerman
No. Dershowitz is an attention whore but he is smart enough not to join the Team Hispanic White.
That's a pretty normal way to feel.
Agreed. But it is not the same as justice. The worst thing this case could do for Americans would be to perpetuate the perception that the law and the criminal justice system exist to mediate private disputes. They exist to replace private disputes, but not to mediate them.
Why should random strangers in the T-shirt business make money off your family's tragedy but not you?
Like I said, a real sweetie - if anybody is going to pimp out her son's death, it should be her.
BTW, Steve, I remember very well Pinker's discussion of revenge in Better Angels, including the fact that it can trigger SEEKING behavior long after RAGE circuits have been shut down. ("Revenge is a dish best served cold.") But that isn't a justification for revenge. Just so stories about nature or neuroscience should not be a sort of materialist natural law system. And it does not, as another commenter said, put the scales back in order. That may be intuitive, but is not an accurate description of reality.
My first thought when I saw that was 'She's black, she's stupid, she can't keep her story straight'. (See previous post linking to the analysis of SAT scores.) But yes, shame on me. I have not seen video of her speaking. And she did just fairly recently lose her son.
That seems about the most sensible thing anybody has had to say so far about this tragic mess-up.
Then I would say you have not read all that much about this, Mr Sailer. Lots of words have been shot into cyberspace about it, many of them well worth reading. And that goes also for reader comments. Of course I've no doubt the vast majority of those words were written by white men.
And what was the result? The powers that be brought in a disgusting, stupid woman to spit a 2nd degree murder charge back into their faces.
And now the trial has been assigned to a woman judge (it could have been worse -- it could have been a 'woman of color').
And just to show they're not letting up, here's a 'family foto' of the woman who said Ann Romney had never worked a day in her life. Lovely.
mess-up
Maybe you could clarify: where was the "mess-up" here? Or who 'messed-up'? Did Zimmerman 'mess-up' when he shot Martin? He said he did it because he was being beaten.
Zimmerman has never claimed the shooting was an accident -- unintentional.
Hey, Truth, this was a 17 year old kid who had been suspended for ten days and who had had other problems at school.
The dad wanted to help straighten him out, he said. So you know what, Truth, most parents with kid that has been misbehaving keep a close eye on him. It's called common sense. Take him and his little brother with you to dinner--it tends to be very helpful in forming a family, you know, those human units that are going by the wayside.
My first impression when I read the post was that the prosecutor was manipulating the Treyvon's mother to get a virtual admission of guilt.
When I saw the retraction at the bottom my impression was that her lawyers thought her statement might weaken her civil suit claims.(Though one of the commenters here seems to think just the opposite)
The prosecutor's cozying-up with Treyvon's folks might be unprofessional/unethical in more than one ways.
Affirmative retraction.
NBC: affirmative redaction.
where are white leaders on this?
we meed the concept of racial rights. since whites are weaker than brutal blacks, they have a right to live safely away from them.
Dershowitz...Zimmermann...my head is spinning. Usually you find the likes of Dershowitz on the opposite side, why is he all of a sudden willing to back up a "white" kid?
His name got traydemarked.
Re: Dershowitz;
It's nice to see that Harvard-educated, ultra-liberal, "communist" civil-rights attorney's, are so popular here...
You will not be disappointed with your vote for Barry in November.
Missiom accomplished. Race riot avoided... for now.
"It is indeed appropriate to praise Trayvon's mother for her empathy. Is it appropriate to praise the entire black community in America for its restraint? Why aren't black people rioting?"
Our hockey teams are doing pretty well this year.
"ecause people are not [always] utility maximizers. A mother concerned with money at a time of her child's death is an unnatural (not adaptive) human response."
Applying for a trademark does not necessarily mean that she is concerned with money, it means that she does not want anyone else making money.
When does an incident become an event. When it is made so. It's like 'the Boston Massacre' became an event because it was made into one.
Media have the biggest power to turn something into an event, but even those with less power can turn something into an event by organizing marches, making speeches, creating an atmosphere of outrage.
The biggest shame is not what blacks are doing with this issue--they're just working in their racial interests--but that whites fail to turn black-on-white incidents into events. Sure, the media are against us, but they come to fear us--once we organize and show our rage--, they will respect us.
People on the Right keep looking back to the Founders, but if they wanna emulate the Founders, they should look forward. Founders didn't look back(as there was little to look back, as what they were about to embark on was unprecedented). They invented a new kind of politics--indeed even before the French Revolution!
They perfected the art of turning an incident into an event, of fanning the flames, or harnessing manufactured public rage. They founded something. Who among white people today have such vision, guts, and determination? Founders were not bland white boys but fervent activists. They understood and executed the art of seizing power. Though not radicals in their program, they were radicals in the art of politics. It's the only way to get things done during crisis times.
Not just retracted, lawyered.
She said, "we believe Zimmerman stalked our son and shot him in cold blood"...
Idiot. Martin was close to the house he was staying in when he decided to turn back and go almost the length of a football field to attack Zimmerman so who was the stalker?
"if Martin had been a white hispanic and Zimmerman had been black, many of the people here defending Zimmerman would do a 180 and be calling for Zimmerman's head. If people are going to be honest."
You hit the jackpot. If a 28 year old man with criminal arrests was stalking a white (hispanic) returning from a 7-11 ,around the complex with a loaded gun and killed him, the posts would be quite different.
The only mistake you made was in saying "many." "Almost all" would be more accurate.
I just watched yet another 'legal expert' expound on the propriety of the charges against Zimmerman.
She said the only reason Zimmerman suspected Trayvon was because he was black, and that is racial profiling.
Not really. Nobody seems to recall that a gated community is private property and not public property.
Anybody who is not a resident or guest of a resident is a trespasser.
Trayvon was [apparently] a guest of a resident, but he was unknown and could be asked by any resident what he was doing on private property.
Judging by the 9-1-1 call what called him to Zimmerman's attention was the fact that his behavior was strange, as if he were drunk or on drugs, and he seemed to be looking at the houses. Those are legitimate reasons for anyone in the community to inquire further.
It will be interesting to see what the toxicology report on Trayvon says...if they allow it to become public.
Zimmerman clearly had the right to inquire why an unknown person acting strangely was on private property.
This incident did not take place on public property.
I realized that I only had to turn round and it would all be over. But the whole beach was reverberating in the sun and pressing against me from behind. I took a few steps towards the spring. The Arab didn't move. Even now he was still some distance away. Perhaps because of the shadows on his face, he seemed to be laughing. I waited. The sun was beginning to burn my cheeks and I felt drops of sweat gathering in my eyebrows. It was the same sun as on the day of mother's funeral and again it was my forehead that was hurting me most and all the veins were throbbing at once beneath the skin. And because I couldn't stand this burning feeling any longer, I moved forward. I knew it was stupid and I wouldn't get out of the sun with one step. But I took a step, just one step forward. And this time, without sitting up, the Arab drew his knife and held it out towards me in the sun. The light leapt off the steel and it was like a long, flashing sword lunging at my forehead. At the same time all the sweat that had gathered in my eyebrows suddenly ran down over my eyelids, covering them with a dense layer of warm moisture. My eyes were blinded by this veil of salty tears. All I could feel were the cymbals the sun was clashing against my forehead and, indistinctly, the dazzling spear still leaping off the knife in front of me. It was like a red-hot blade gnawing at my eyelashes and gouging out my stinging eyes. That was when everything shook. The sea swept ashore a great breath of fire. The sky seemed to be splitting from end to end and raining down sheets of flame. My whole being went tense and I tightened my grip on the gun. The trigger gave, I felt the underside of the polished butt and it was there, in that sharp but deafening noise, that it all started. I shook off the sweat and the sun. I realized I'd destroyed the balance of the day and the perfect silence of this beach where I'd been happy. And I fired four more times at a lifeless body and the bullets sank in without leaving a mark. And it was like giving four sharp knocks at the door of unhappiness.
if Martin had been a white hispanic and Zimmerman had been black
That's not a role-reversal. That's a fantasy-reversal.
It's nice to see that Harvard-educated, ultra-liberal, "communist" civil-rights attorney's, are so popular here...
You will not be disappointed with your vote for Barry in November.
[...]
You hit the jackpot. If a 28 year old man with criminal arrests was stalking a white (hispanic) returning from a 7-11 ,around the complex with a loaded gun and killed him, the posts would be quite different.
In other words, 365 Black. You don't like us agreeing with Dersh, because he worked against Team Trayvon (i.e., Team Black). You criticize Whites, when they aren't on Team Trayvon (i.e., Team Black). Whites supporting a Mestizo is raciss. Blacks supporting a Black is justiss.
Anonymous at 8:05
You're right, you know. Too much of the Alt-Right crowd is obsessed with high minded navel gazing and long winded diatribes on dead philosophers.
Quoting a dead German philosopher isn't going to save you when you're about to culturally enriched.
"Zeb Quinn said...
If people are going to be honest, if the roles were reversed, actually if the races were reversed, if Martin had been a white hispanic and Zimmerman had been black, many of the people here defending Zimmerman would do a 180 and be calling for Zimmerman's head. If people are going to be honest."
Actually, no. Black homeowner and neighborhood watch volunteer shoots and kills a white (presumed) prowler who attacks him? I've got no problem with that. Especially if it turned out, for example, that the white "youth" was a scary-looking meth-head, not a fresh-faced moppet as he is always portrayed by the media.
You hit the jackpot. If a 28 year old man with criminal arrests was stalking a white (hispanic) returning from a 7-11 ,around the complex with a loaded gun and killed him, the posts would be quite different.
You're full of crap. Nobody here would say a word against Jay Lewis.
t's okay for commenters to have predictable biases. People commenting unpaid on a website are not required to be impartial magistrates. Clashing biases help get more facts and ideas into the discussion.
Truth - for some reason I find myself wanting to like you. It could be that you are a black guy willing to mix it up with some conservatives (not to mention what appear to be lots and lots of people that live in their Mom's basements).
But it would help if you occasionally posted something that had a point to it. It seems what you mostly do is select segments of other posts (seemingly) at random and then offer a smart-ass reply to it.
Example somebody asks "why aren't black people rioting" and you're response is "our hockey teams are doing well this year". It doesn't make sense, nor is it funny.
You could write something like "being able to do simple math, I must acknowledge blacks are orders of magnitude greater threats to whites than vice versa. But as far as I can tell, blacks are usually punished for those crimes - evidence being the prison systems are chock-full of vibrant diversity. Our complaint is not that this black was attacked by a white/hispanic/white hispanic/ mestizo/ whatever, but that he until now apparently wasn't going to be punished for it".
Of course, I fully concede you probably don't care if I like you or not. But I think you can do better. Just my $0.02.
"Example somebody asks "why aren't black people rioting" and you're response is "our hockey teams are doing well this year". It doesn't make sense, nor is it funny."
I didn't get it the first time, but now that you bring it up again, I get it: It's a reference to the riot in Vancouver last May or June when the Vancouver team lost the NHL finals. With that in mind, it does make sense, and it is pretty funny.
"n other words, 365 Black. You don't like us agreeing with Dersh, because he worked against Team Trayvon (i.e., Team Black). You criticize Whites, when they aren't on Team Trayvon (i.e., Team Black). Whites supporting a Mestizo is raciss. Blacks supporting a Black is justiss."
I don't mind you supporting anyone at all, and quite honestly I don't give a shit whether Zimmerman is ruled guilty or innocent. I just felt that it was a miscarriage that he was not arrested for shooting someone under murky circumstances.
I'm just happy to see that you've morphed into an ACLU card-carrying, Harvard lawyer-idolizing, liberal, Jewish/Peruvian busybody.
Can you fault a guy for that?
"Nobody here would say a word against Jay Lewis..."
(crickets chirping)
"Example somebody asks "why aren't black people rioting" and you're response is "our hockey teams are doing well this year". It doesn't make sense, nor is it funny."
Doesn't make sense, Really?
"being able to do simple math, I must acknowledge blacks are orders of magnitude greater threats to whites than vice versa. But as far as I can tell, blacks are usually punished for those crimes - evidence being the prison systems are chock-full of vibrant diversity. Our complaint is not that this black was attacked by a white/hispanic/white hispanic/ mestizo/ whatever, but that he until now apparently wasn't going to be punished for it".
Yeah, THAT'S what I was trying to say!
(except the part about blacks being greater threats to whites, that indicates
small sample size)
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/24/nyregion/24commute.html
I wish I knew how to hypertext this.
Somebody post a link with instructions please.
Probably the most similar story. Black adult shoots unarmed white kid. Chose not to call 911. Serves a laughable sentence, shortened by Gov. Patterson. Today he is a black hero.
Truth said...
"Example somebody asks "why aren't black people rioting" and you're response is "our hockey teams are doing well this year". It doesn't make sense, nor is it funny."
Doesn't make sense, Really?
4/13/12 3:34 PM
That's the best you've got? What were the arrests for? How many were for serious crimes? Pictures look pretty tame - a guy burning a newspaper, etc. The only looters caught in the act were very dark - one black guy and an almost black guy - illustrating that even during a hockey riot blacks are 1000 times more likely to be looters.
The Public Prosecutor asked him whether I paid my board regularly. Celeste laughed and said, 'Things like that were just details between him and me.' Then he was asked what he thought of my crime. At that he placed his hands on the edge of the box and you could see that he'd prepared something. He said, 'I think it was a mishap. A mishap, everyone knows what that is. You can't guard against that. So there you are! I think it was a mishap.' He was going to go on, but the judge told him that that would be all and thanked him. Celeste was left rather dumbfounded. But he announced that he wanted to say something else. He was asked to be brief. He again repeated that it was a mishap. And the judge said, 'Yes, all right. But we are here to judge such mishaps. Thank you.' And as if all his knowledge and all his goodwill could avail him no further, Celeste turned towards me. I thought I could see his eyes glistening and his lips trembling. He seemed to be asking me what more he could do. I didn't say anything, I didn't even move, but it was the first in my life that I'd ever wanted to kiss a man. The judge again instructed him to step down. Celeste went back to his seat among the public.
And I should add, to be fair, if the races were reversed, if Martin had been a white hispanic and Zimmerman had been black, many of those out there now calling for Zimmerman's head (NBC, the race hustlers, etc.) would do a 180 and be defending Zimmerman to the max.
The other reality about race relations in this country.
By the way, Zimmerman was a registered Democrat.
Do you suppose he still supports Obama?
Also, does having the President of the United States involving himself in your case risk polluting the jury pool?
Clashing biases help get more facts and ideas into the discussion.
Assuming, of course, that Komment Kontrol ever allows your "facts and ideas into the discussion" in the first place.
"Is it appropriate to praise the entire black community in America for its restraint? Why aren't black people rioting?"
They're waiting for whites to make them an offer they can't refuse. They may not excell at future time orientation but they can exhibit remarkable funds of patience when they know a pay-off is imminent.
I think they know they've hit the jackpot this time.
"Anonymous said...
""Clashing biases help get more facts and ideas into the discussion.""
Assuming, of course, that Komment Kontrol ever allows your "facts and ideas into the discussion" in the first place."
Will you cut it out with the "Komment Kontrol" crap already? You sound stupid. I can therefore only conclude that you are stupid.
This is Steve's site. Steve is "Komment Kontrol". If you have a problem because this nebulous, all-powerful force you call "Komment Kontrol" is thwarting your will, then your problem really lies with Steve, and perhaps you just shouldn't post here. I'm betting that would suit any number of us just fine.
"So you know what, Truth, most parents with kid that has been misbehaving keep a close eye on him. It's called common sense. Take him and his little brother with you to dinner"
It's always great when people who have no kids give such wonderful child-rearing advice.
"That's the best you've got? What were the arrests for? How many were for serious crimes?"
There's a riot in a Canadian city every time one of their teams wins the Stanley Cup, take your pick...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VzOUKODdZ4
And I should add, to be fair, if the races were reversed,
Then Martin would be a MESTIZO, and Zimmerman would be Black, you halfwit.
"Then Martin would be a MESTIZO, and Zimmerman would be Black, you halfwit."
Pow...Zing...Svigolino again with the technically passable, yet totally useless and pedantic correction to a post of clear intention!
When I saw the retraction at the bottom my impression was that her lawyers thought her statement might weaken her civil suit claims.(Though one of the commenters here seems to think just the opposite),
You can't un-say something. The retraction has no legal significance.
Anything she has said can be put into evidence by Z in a civil suit as an admission of party opponent. Anything she says to make her case look good is inadmissible. She can make the same retraction when she testifies at trial, but retracting it before then means nothing.
So the statements she's making on advice of counsel, as you see it, have no purpose other than to bias the jury pool.
we meed the concept of racial rights. since whites are weaker than brutal blacks, they have a right to live safely away from them.
Whites are not weaker than Blacks.
Whites have more self-control and are much less likely to attack strangers unprovoked. Whites also value their own lives more than Blacks value their own lives, so that Whites won't fight to the death over over a pool table or a basketball court or three dollars in the pizza delivery guy's pocket.
The real problem is physical and emotional differences. Blacks are tougher and more aggressive....
Blacks are not tougher. In fact, they're disproportionately mama's boys. You ever seen a White man pull a Dwyane Wade and require a wheel chair for a shoulder injury?
If people are going to be honest, if the roles were reversed, actually if the races were reversed, if Martin had been a white hispanic and Zimmerman had been black, many of the people here defending Zimmerman would do a 180 and be calling for Zimmerman's head. If people are going to be honest.
You're saying that the killer would have been labeled a "White Black" and I would have been held responsible for his actions?
You have no idea what's going on.
Our defense of Z is primarily due to the fact that is that his alleged guilt is being imoputed to us and we are being tried along with him.
I don't know what happened, and Z might be guilty of a crime, but -- God damn it -- I'm not, and neither is the White race.
"I don't know what happened, and Z might be guilty of a crime, but -- God damn it -- I'm not, and neither is the White race."
Hey Ben, I didn't rape any white people either; welcome to the club, My N-
"...whites are weaker then brutal blacks.."
"...blacks are tougher and more aggressive.."
Blacks are not, in the aggregate, stronger then whites. You ever see a strongman contest? You ever see a powerlifting competition? Almost everybody is white.
It's just that blacks are (in the aggregate) more readliy disposed to violence and more willing to engage in verbal hostilities, often over the most trivial matters, then other races. Blacks also tend to have poor impulse controls and many of them are projectionists. Many black males, especially younger ones, seem to sense that they intimidate people, who simply prefer to avoid trouble, and tend to thrive on it. I used to work for years with this smartass black guy who always baited and harassed me. I never rose to it, since I didn't want to lose my job for being "racist". Some time later I ran into him (I was no longer working there and had nothing to lose) and he started talking S*** to me. I gave it right back to him with interest. He backed off right away.
"Truth said...
""So you know what, Truth, most parents with kid that has been misbehaving keep a close eye on him. It's called common sense. Take him and his little brother with you to dinner""
It's always great when people who have no kids give such wonderful child-rearing advice."
Once again "Truth" exercises his psychic powers - somehow divining that a poster named "Anonymous" has no children.
Pow...Zing...Svigolino again with the technically passable, yet totally useless and pedantic correction to a post of clear intention!
It's the foundation of the point he's trying to make with his "role-reversal" silliness.
"ben tillman said...
Our defense of Z is primarily due to the fact that is that his alleged guilt is being imoputed to us and we are being tried along with him."
I'll tell you why I defend him. Because he's on our side. He may not be perfect, but he's on our side. Blacks have made it perfectly clear that this is tribal with them. Fine. It is with me too. I'll stick with my tribe - the tribe of people who are fed up with black criminals and their apologists.
"Hey Ben, I didn't rape any white people either; welcome to the club, My N-"
Sorry, gotta play the odds. Why should we take all the risks to make you happy? A lot of people say pit bulls aren't a violent breed but when you see the misfits who say it, you want to steer clear of the dogs and their owners.
I like Komment Kontrol. It becomes a game to see if I can write a good enough comment to be posted. In a way it is merciful, some of the clunkers I've sent in, in retrospect, could have been embarrassing. Steve doesn't want to sully Anonymous' good name.
"I'll tell you why I defend him. Because he's on our side"
How many cops have you assaulted? How many people on the way home have you shot?
"Sorry, gotta play the odds. Why should we take all the risks to make you happy?"
There's very little chance of you making me happy. I'm already happy.
" I like Komment Kontrol. It becomes a game to see if I can write a good enough comment to be posted."
Jesus Christ, I'd like to take all of you Komment Kontrol dorks, put black shoe polish and hoodies on you and drop you from a helicopter into Zimmerman's backyard.
How many cops have you assaulted?
Charges against Zimmerman were dropped, so it's likely that the cop was just being a total dick that day. This happens; I know of a case where a cop laid assault charges against someone who merely grabbed onto his own kitchen faucet to avoid being bodily hauled out of his own home during a false arrest.
How many people on the way home have you shot?
Martin wasn't on his way home. First, he wasn't within 200 miles of his home. Second, he had to head AWAY from his father's place to get back to where he attacked Zimmerman.
Nice little Orwellian thing you've got going there, "Truth".
Radley Balko on the Zimmerman indictment.
"There's very little chance of you making me happy. I'm already happy."
Why would I make such an assumption? I assume posting here, an essentially lily white virtual neighborhood, makes you happy or you wouldn't do it. But you do. I think you prefer the company of white commenters. I don't think there is a black equivalent to this site and if there was, would anyone here visit it? Why would they, to be assaulted by mindless invective? At least here, you know that for the most part you'll be assaulted by thoughtful invective.
"Charges against Zimmerman were dropped, so it's likely that the cop was just being a total dick that day"
They were not dropped, he plea bargained to a misdemeanor; and anyway, why do assume a real cop is "being a total dick" and a fake cop isn't?
"Martin wasn't on his way home."
If you have a key, and a place to sleep, that's your home.
"Second, he had to head AWAY from his father's place to get back to where he attacked Zimmerman."
There is no evidence he attacked Zimmerman.
Why would I make such an assumption? I assume posting here, an essentially lily white virtual neighborhood, makes you happy or you wouldn't do it. But you do. I think you prefer the company of white commenters.
T-Dog does seem to love to hang out with the White folks.
From the Balko link:
The likelihood of error in these later statements is even greater if they were made after they “pooled information” with other witnesses, learning what others thought they heard and saw. Memories influenced by post-event information and pooling of information are major causes of faulty eye-witness identification, which in turn is the leading cause of wrongful convictions in this country.
Indeed. Certain, very famous, collective narratives spring to mind.
From the Balko link:
The one thing I’d add is that I was taken aback by Corey’s statement at the press conference that the first thing she did after she was appointed to the case was pray with Trayvon Martin’s family. I find the idea of a prosecutor praying with a victim’s family off-putting in general. But it’s particularly troubling in this case.
Don't hold your breath waiting for libtards to howl about "separation of Church and State."
"Truth said...
""Second, he had to head AWAY from his father's place to get back to where he attacked Zimmerman.""
There is no evidence he attacked Zimmerman."
Another lie (no quotes) from "Truth" (in quotes).
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