From the NYT, a classic statement of how only white people possess moral and empirical agency, and everybody else today is just a puppet of how white people felt generations ago. It's not like new immigrants would be so uncouth as to believe their lying eyes about African Americans; instead, they must be picking up the white man's vibes from Jim Crow days. Blacks and Hispanics in 2012 are just automatons under the control of powerful brainwaves sent out by Lester G. Maddox from the Great Beyond.
March 31, 2012
In Florida, a Death Foretold
By ISABEL WILKERSON
Tampa, Fla.
... Americans tend to think of the rigid stratification of caste as a distant notion from feudal Europe or Victorian India. But caste is alive and well in this country, where a still unsettled multiracial society is emerging from the starkly drawn social order that Dollard described. Assumptions about one’s place in this new social order have become a muddying subtext in the case of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed black teenager slain at the hands of an overzealous neighborhood watch captain, who is the son of a white father and a Peruvian mother.
We do not know what George Zimmerman was thinking as he watched Mr. Martin from afar, told a 911 dispatcher that he looked suspicious and ultimately shot him. But we do know that it happened in central Florida, a region whose demographic landscape is rapidly changing, where unprecedented numbers of Latino immigrants have arrived at a place still scarred by the history of a vigilante-enforced caste system and the stereotypes that linger from it. In this context, newcomers — like previous waves of immigrants in the past — may feel pressed to identify with the dominant caste and distance themselves from blacks, in order to survive.
A study released in 2006 by Duke University on attitudes on race in Durham, N.C., a city with one of the fastest-growing Latino populations in the country, found that an overwhelming majority of Latinos — 78 percent — felt they had the most in common with whites, while 53 percent of them felt they had the least in common with blacks.
So it would make sense for those respondents to act with the same assumptions about blacks that they perceive are held by native whites. In fact the Latino respondents, many of them immigrants from Mexico and Central America, actually reported higher negative feelings toward blacks than most native-born whites. Nearly 60 percent reported feeling that few or almost no blacks were hard-working or could be trusted, while only 10 percent of whites held that view.
On the other hand, almost three-quarters of blacks felt that Latinos were hard-working or could be trusted. Black Americans appear to view Latinos as more like themselves. “Blacks are not as negative toward Latinos as Latinos are toward blacks because blacks see them as another nonwhite group that will be treated as they have been,” said Paula D. McClain, the lead author on the study. Even as blacks worry about losing jobs to new immigrants, they are less supportive of harsh anti-immigration laws, she said, “because they know what laws have done to them.”
But shared hardships don’t necessarily make allies. “As linked fate rises, so does competition,” said Michael Jones-Correa, a professor of government at Cornell who specializes in immigration and interethnic relations. “It’s like a sibling rivalry,” he said. “This is not a painless relationship.” And, of course, Latino immigrants don’t just enter a pre-existing racial hierarchy; they bring with them their own assumptions based on the hierarchies in their home countries. “When we come to the U.S.,” Eduardo Bonilla-Silva, a professor of sociology at Duke, who is Puerto Rican, said, “we immediately recognize whites on top and blacks on the bottom and say, ‘My job is to be anything but black.’ ”
This uneasy coexistence has had tragic consequences in the past. A series of riots broke out in Miami in the 1980s after several black men were shot dead by Latino police officers who claimed self-defense and were later acquitted. In 1982 in Miami, a 20-year-old black man named Nevell Johnson Jr. was killed at a video arcade by a white, Cuban-born police officer. Seven years later, after a routine traffic stop in that same Miami neighborhood, a black man riding a motorcycle, Clement Anthony Lloyd, was shot dead by a Colombian-born police officer. The motorcycle then crashed; another black man who was riding on the back died the next day.
Just last year in California, a gang of 51 people, mostly Latinos, were indicted in the San Gabriel Valley, east of Los Angeles, after a 15-year campaign of assaults and firebombings of African-American residents, whom they were trying to force out of the neighborhood.
In this atmosphere, blacks are the target of the highest number of hate crimes in the United States, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation — higher by a wide margin than any another group of Americans by race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or disability. While blacks make up 12.6 percent of the country’s population, they were 70 percent of the victims of racial hate crimes in 2010.
WHATEVER role caste may have played in the Trayvon Martin case is unknowable, and it is far too early to tell whether Mr. Zimmerman will be arrested, tried or convicted. But that encounter unfolded in Seminole County, where Latinos have overtaken African-Americans as the dominant minority group, rising to 17 percent from 11 percent in the last decade. Blacks now make up 11 percent and whites, 66 percent. The area had a history of vigilante justice long before the new arrivals, dating back to 1920, when blacks in the nearby town of Ocoee were burned out of their homes after two black men tried to vote.
Despite all that has gone before, there is reason for optimism. One of the great tragedies of the last century was the pitting of immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe against African-Americans who had migrated from the rural South to the industrial North. Both groups were seeking the same thing and were pretty much the same people — people of the land trying to make a way for their families in forbidding and alien places. Fear, suspicion and uneven access to unions, jobs and housing kept them apart. Firebombings and white flight followed, and we are still living with the aftereffects of those divisions.
The arrival of a new kind of immigrant to a country that has endured so much discord offers a chance for re-examination and redemption. Indeed, one of the most encouraging signs noted by Mr. Jones-Correa is that Latinos are maintaining a distinct identity and are increasingly choosing to be identified as “other” rather than black or white. “We have a history of immigrants coming to America and proving themselves as American by identifying as white,” he said. “Latinos see themselves as a third category. I think they will continue as a third position beyond the black and white rhetoric.”
Isabel Wilkerson is a former national correspondent and bureau chief for The New York Times and the author of “The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America’s Great Migration.”
Whatever happens,
Whites have got
Culpability,
And we have not.
P.S., the graphs used to illustrate this essay are a real hoot.
Posts
146 comments:
Kinda OT, but there is a story in the Daily Mail Online about the 7th birthday of twin girls born to multiracial parents. One is white, blonde and blue-eyed, the other dark and brown-eyed.
The kicker is that the mother says Kian, the dark twin, is "a bit bossier, a bit louder", while Remee, the white one, "is a bit more laid back. She'll think a bit longer before she does something".
HBD from the same gene pool!
In this context, newcomers — like previous waves of immigrants in the past — may feel pressed to identify with the dominant caste
As in, convert to Judaism?
Too Byzantine to read in full.
I turned down two job offers this week because:
1) One was in an HR department where I'd have to be constantly saluting the flags of the quota system and the diversity crusade;
2) The other was with a company that acknowledged that I have many years more experience than their management. They spoke at great length about their need to learn from my vast experience. And yet, white guy, that I am, I would be about three rungs down the ladder with the quota hire on the top calling the shots.
Being a member of the dominant class ain't what it used to be.
Indeed, one of the most encouraging signs noted by Mr. Jones-Correa is that Latinos are maintaining a distinct identity and are increasingly choosing to be identified as “other” rather than black or white. “We have a history of immigrants coming to America and proving themselves as American by identifying as white,” he said. “Latinos see themselves as a third category.
And this is an encouraging development why exactly?
"Caste" in "Victorian India"? Do they mean to say that "caste" didn't exist in "India" until the (white) "Victorians" arrived?
Christ, but they're just plain evil. Every time you want to correct them because you think they're just shallow or stupid, remember, No: they're fucking evil.
> “Blacks are not as negative toward Latinos as Latinos are toward blacks because blacks see them as another nonwhite group that will be treated as they have been,” said Paula D. McClain, the lead author on the study. Even as blacks worry about losing jobs to new immigrants, they are less supportive of harsh anti-immigration laws, she said, “because they know what laws have done to them.”
> “When we come to the U.S.,” Eduardo Bonilla-Silva, a professor of sociology at Duke, who is Puerto Rican, said, “we immediately recognize whites on top and blacks on the bottom and say, ‘My job is to be anything but black.’”
Professors Paula D. McClain and Eduardo Bonilla-Silva were both members of the so-called Group of 88, the mostly-faculty signatories of a rush-to-judgement ad that did so much to inflame emotions and promote the Duke Lacrosse Rape Hoax/Frame.
Neither has apologized for their role.
Just for the record, Eduardo Bonilla-Silva is a member of the Gang of 88 at Duke.
From the article - Americans tend to think of the rigid stratification of caste as a distant notion from feudal Europe or Victorian India.
Heaven forbid they might think of the rigid stratification of caste as a notion from modern India.
Have you spent much time reading the Facebook pages and tweets of some of the people involved in these recent events?
I've been working on a theory, based on observations of friends, about the various negative effects of these social media. People simply are not meant to socialize this way. It brings out all the worst emotions and pathologies.
But, my theories are based on people who have been raised and continue to live in relatively decent environments. I hadn't considered the effect on the less ... priveleged. It's hard to imagine than following this new thread will lead to anything better than what I've already found.
It must be especially sweet for Duke Group of 88-ers McClain and Bonilla-Silva to be prominently featured in the New York Times. After all, this was the mainstream media organ that undertook the heavy lifting to have the Duke lacrosse players sacrificed on the altar of racial grievance, facts be damned.
It's a Who?-Whom? reunion -- let's party!
Hey, guys--that white Hispanic guy can be the pinata! This is gonna be fun, as well as a Brawleyesque career builder.
In the early 1980s, around the time of black-Latino tensions, I visited my father in Miami. My father’s only close friends were a childless Jewish couple, probably because only Jewish people could tolerate my father’s, uh, eccentricities.
The four of us were driving downtown, when some boisterous young black men passed in front of our stopped car. The blacks gave my father a look of jocular hostility. My father, a good old boy from Arkansas, returned the look in kind.
The blacks then saw the Jewish couple, of whom they knew nothing other than that they looked Jewish. They gave this couple a look of cold hatred.
Yep, I guess they must have picked that up form Lester Maddox.
How much of this attitude is genuinely about whites, versus simply fear that they've got no other gig?
Truly stunning. Great post Steve.
If there's any fairness in America, this kid needs to get her job back:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-trayvon-martin-cartoon-20120330,0,1783290.story?track=rss
Yes, immigrants imitate whites by having MORE negative attitudes than whites! I'm sure their home countries are completely colorblind.
Just what we need: another tribal bunch amongst us.
or from pre-Victorian India ...
The endless refrain in white supremacist sites like Stormfront is that jews are using blacks against whites.
Well, what about whites using mestizos, japonazis etc against blacks?
Uh, most Hispanic societies are racist. The blacks are at the bottom and the whites at the top with variations of color in between.
Its always annoying how Americans think immigrants come here as blank slates and their previous experience in the "old Country" doesn't effect them.
One of the great tragedies of the last century was the pitting of immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe against African-Americans who had migrated from the rural South to the industrial North. Both groups were seeking the same thing and were pretty much the same people — people of the land trying to make a way for their families in forbidding and alien places.
I'm pretty sure those Southern and Eastern European immigrants never believed they were "pretty much the same people" as blacks.
It's hurt pride. It must be hard to see all these other people come into your country and surpass you.
They ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till we start giving them the evil eye and start pointing the bone.
One of the great tragedies of the last century was the pitting of immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe against African-Americans who had migrated from the rural South to the industrial North. Both groups were seeking the same thing and were pretty much the same people — people of the land trying to make a way for their families in forbidding and alien places.
I'm certain those Eastern and Southern European immigrants never believed they "were pretty much the same people" as blacks. Different races. Different histories. Different religions. Oh, why do I bother? There is no reasoning with blank slate idiots.
"Caste" in "Victorian India"? Do they mean to say that "caste" didn't exist in "India" until the (white) "Victorians" arrived? Christ, but they're just plain evil. Every time you want to correct them because you think they're just shallow or stupid, remember, No: they're fucking evil.
That was the first thing I picked up on as well. My own personal theory is that elites are dumbing down the schools so they can have millions of ignorant proles willing to believe any stupid argument they make.
"Americans tend to think of the rigid stratification of caste as a distant notion from feudal Europe or Victorian India."
Take that sentence to any random American and ask them what's wrong with it and something north of 75% of the population wouldn't have a fucking clue.
While blacks make up 12.6 percent of the country’s population, they were 70 percent of the victims of racial hate crimes in 2010.
Given the fact that blacks, 13% of the population, commit 40-50% of the crime in this ccuntry - commit nearly any other type of crime at rates about 10 times higher than whites - I find it highly unlikely that they're committing hate crimes at low rates.
In this context, distinguishing between a "hate" crime and any other type of crime is a ruse. I honestly don't give a shit why someone harms me, and any random black is about ten times as likely to harm me as the random white.
There's a whole academic discipline, called White Studies, that churns out this sort of nonsense. Look up Nell Irvin Painter, for one.
"I'm pretty sure those Southern and Eastern European immigrants never believed they were "pretty much the same people" as blacks."
Quite, but how could a PC Genoan or Venetian respond to this other than to silently choke on his corn-flakes?
Gilbert Pinfold.
The old NYT narrative was that Latinos came here to do "work that [black] Americans didn't want to do."
Vincente Fox made that point explicitly, as I remember, pointing out how lazy black folks were.
Farrakhan told a black church that Fox was right. Farrakhan said that black folks would not do certain work and were leaving that to Mexicans to do. Apparently dirty, sweaty, hard work is beneath blacks to do. They prefer to leave that to lesser races (e.g. Mexicans).
As Farrakhan bluntly put it, black folks have "picked enough cotton" [... and presumably roofed enough houses, repaired enough cars, washed enough dishes, mowed enough lawns, and emptied enough garbage cans, too.].
If Mexicans are doing work that black folks turn their noses up at, is it any wonder that Mexicans look down on blacks?
As a newcomer to this country, how could any Mexican feel any sympathy for blacks, who expect white folks to pay for their sprogs while they turns their nose up at honest labor as "beneath them" while they wait for that $70,000 per year DC bus driving job?
"...unprecedented numbers of Latino immigrants have arrived at a place still scarred by the history of a vigilante-enforced caste system and the stereotypes that linger from it."
Another trope of the blank slate crowd - the pretense that there is no multiracial society in the world other than America; no country to which we can look to see how these things turn out in societies not scarred by a "vigilante-enforced caste system and the stereotypes that linger from it."
There was never a "vigilante-enforced caste system" in Great Britain (not at least as it related to blacks), or in France - but blacks wound up on the bottom. Blacks even manage to be the bottom caste in their own countries.
Funny how that works. But to Ms. Isabel Wilkerson, Great Britain, France, Haiti, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Somalia, and Zambia don't exist.
Lots of proposed solutions to America's race problems. I've got a new one: give every single black American a one-month, all expense paid trip to a random African country. Let them stay in the finest shacks and mud huts, eat the finest rocks, drink the finest bacteria-infested water, get gang raped by the finest death squads of HIV-infected 14-year-olds with AK-47s, and see how they feel when they get back - if they make it back.
What a fascinating article! It didn't tell me anything I didn't already know, but the quantitative detail provided was extremely helpful.
What most jumped out at me was that while Hispanics generally regard blacks as lazy and unreliable, whites *overwhelmingly* say blacks are hardworking and trustworthy, a veritable ocean of Bill Cosby clones. Makes you really wonder about whether whites or Hispanics actually have higher IQs and higher honesty-quotients. Makes you also realize just how hopelessly isolated the WN-activists are from the white masses whom they aspire to lead in revolution.
This whole Zimmerman Saga is certainly producing some amusing Rorschach-reactions. My guess---it's just a guess---is that Hispanics overwhelmingly support Zimmerman, and such support will grow even stronger as more and more of the true facts of the case gradually come out. Meanwhile, all the Hispanic-activist types---La Raza, Lulac, etc.---are marching arm-in-arm with Al Sharpton (and National Review) and calling for the summary-execution of Zimmerman-the-Neo-Nazi-KKK-Killer, and they've gone too far out on that limb to reverse their position even if Trayvon Himself were to rise from the grave and publicly admit his guilt. And about the only strong Zimmerman defenders I see around anywhere are the WN-activists.
Hmmm... This raises an intriguing strategic realignment. WN activists are always complaining that decades of trying to awaken and mobilize their beloved white masses have gotten absolutely nowhere, and the aforementioned polling data certainly supports that grim conclusion. Meanwhile, the Hispanic activists seem to have thrown their own masses under the bus in hopes of getting lots of facetime on FoxNews and grants from the Ford Foundation. So maybe the WNs should just declare themselves Hispanics and immediately become the natural leaders of Latino-America. Probably the blond/blue-eyed WNs would have the easiest inside track to the top, given the phenotypic profile of all the most popular Hispanic film/TV stars.
But the WNs better move fast. After all, younger Hispanics tend to watch a lot of American TeeVee, and I'd say that in another couple of decades all the second-generation Guatemalans will be wailing day and night about the horrible legacy of guilt they feel over Rosa Parks and Harriet Tubman and Southern Lynchings, and desperately searching for their own imaginary black best friend...
"While blacks make up 12.6 percent of the country’s population, they were 70 percent of the victims of racial hate crimes in 2010."
----
Let's see: There were roughly 3,133 race-based "bias incidents" nationwide in 2010 according to the FBI stats cited in the story (view a summary here: http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2010-hate-crime-statistics).
That means about 2,193 were against blacks -- about 6 per day.
Ouch!
But where the race of the offender was known (6,008 offenders), 58.6 per cent were white and 18.4 per cent were black. That comes to 3,520 white offenders and 1,105 black ones. The remainder were race unknown (12% of offenders, around 720)or another race (11% of offenders, or around 660).
So...
Chance of any black committing a bias offense in 2010:
0.000028384776%
Chance of any white committing a hate crime in 2010: 1.57%
0.000015745688%
Any given black was 1.8 times as likely to commit a hate crime in 2010 than any given white.
I was hoping you'd comment on this drivel, Steve.
It's interesting how the author engages in faulty logic when she says that it's all the White Man's fault because Hispanics want to be white and don't like blacks, but there's hope because Hispanics don't think of themselves as white [and hence they will dislike whites!!!].
Yup, also Rwanda/Burundi was caused by the legacy of white colonialism. I mean, I've heard the Great Leap Forward blamed on white colonialism.
If whites are to be blamed for ALL prejudice, shouldn't they be credited with all progress?
If non-whites picked up anti-black hatred from whites, then surely they must have also picked up all the progressive values--such as ending slavery, equal rights for women, etc--from whites as well.
For some reason, crediting whites is wrong but blaming them is right.
Btw, Latinos come as whites, half-whites, mulattos, mestizos, native indigenous folks who now speak Spanish, etc.
And Latin America has a long history of racial tensions, and so I highly doubt if racial 'prejudice' is something Latinos picked up from whites.
Steve -
Have you googled this chick?
She has a rather storied history as a race-baiter/race-hater going back literally decades:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel_Wilkerson
This chick plays this shtick for a living, man - she's a professional - a "working girl", as they say.
There is no consistency in these social morality stuff.
Take Jews and Gays. Gays are amongst the bitchiest, nastiest, mocking-est, and judgmental people on Earth.. They love to mock Catholics, conservatives, the 1950s, and etc, but if you dare say anything hostile about gays, they freak out. It's like gays can ridicule 'straights' and 'squares' all they want, but if we say gays are weird, we are mentally sick or phobic.
Same with Jews. Jews are known for their hostility, criticism, subversion, radicalism, etc. Jews like to pick on and attack wasps, Arabs, Christians, Chinese, Muslims, conservatives, and etc. But if you dare say anything about Jews, YOU ARE AN 'ANTISEMITE' NAZI, AND HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE JEWS!!!
native indigenous folks who now speak Spanish
You left out native indigenous folks who HAVE NEVER SPOKEN Spanish.
"We do not know what George Zimmerman was thinking as he watched Mr. Martin from afar, told a 911 dispatcher that he looked suspicious and ultimately shot him"
Actually, Isabel Wilkerson, we do know what he was thinking. Just as you state, Zimmerman was thinking Martin looked suspicious and called 911.
Funny... when some British guy said white yobs were imitating blacks in the London Riots, he was hounded by the media.
But it's okay for the media to say Zimmerman was imitating white bigotry in the killing of Martin.
The fact is the British guy was right. Yobs in Britain do dress like blacks and act like rapper louts.
But Zimmerman wasn't acting the way he does cuz he reads National Review or Vdare--if anything, he's a registered Democrat. He was acting the way he does cuz he's seen too much black crime.
There was a case of some Japanese tourist guy who was shot to death by some white guy in the South. The Japanese guy was invited to a party but went to the wrong address and when the owner of the house flashed his gun, the Japanese guy thought the guy was pulling a joke.
This made national/international news, but nothing like the Trayvon Martin thing, at least in the US. For one thing, Asian-American community did not threaten violence, and Americans are not afeared of the Asian-American community. And so, when the shooter was acquitted by the jury, the news just faded. Some said it was wrong, but it was just one among many news.
So, why is this Trayvon thing such big news? Other than cult of white guilt, there is a lot of white fear of blacks, and whites are desperately trying to send message to blacks that they care(and 'so please don't burn down the cities, Negroes').
When Rodney King thing happened, the federal government ignored it and allowed it to be handled by local authorities. When the cops were acquitted, all hell broke loose. So, the federal government is making a lot of noise and going through lots of noise to send a message that SOMETHING is being done.
In a way, Obama is playing with fire, but it's also a way of fire control. It's like FOREST DEPARTMENT sometimes uses fire to burn down parts of forest to prevent a truly big fire. Thus, the government uses inflammatoriness to some degree to burn away some of the excess rage. That way, maybe Negroes will figure, 'somebody cares' and will be less likely to act crazy.
What this teaches us is that we need a white movement to use RAGE. Only if the government and media fear white folks will they try to accommodate white folks as they do black folks.
Politics is about power, and power is useless unless it is feared.
Has anyone used 'Trayvon Martin Luther King'?
Per the official US Department of Justice website, blacks who are only 12.3% of the population (2000 U.S. Census) committed 52.2% of all homicides in the US during the 30 years ending December, 2005. EVERYBODY ELSE (87.7% of the population: Hispanics, American Indians, Asian-European-Arab Americans, and South Pacific Islanders) only committed 47.8% of homicides. Therefore, on a per-capita basis, blacks commit homicide at a rate 7.8 times that of all other people in the United States. Per Professor Emeritus of History at Haverford College Roger Lane in his books on murder in America, this relative ratio of per-capita figures for blacks committing homocide to that of the general population goes back at least to the 1830's when accurate criminal statistics started to be maintained. This was before the advent of heroin or crack or the ready availability of handguns in the black population.
And a new update from the DOJ: HOMICIDE TRENDS IN THE UNITED STATES, 1980-2008, pub. November, 2011 indicates that the blacks committed 52.5% of all homicides for the years 1980 through 2008. Even with the 2010 Census indicating 12.5% of the population is black, up from 12.3%, this still results in a rate that is 7.7 times that of non-blacks in the U.S.
Courtesy of Patrick Buchanan’s “Suicide of a Superpower” come the FBI’s crime figures for 2007: “Blacks committed 433,934 violent crimes against whites, eight times as many as the 55,685 that whites committed against blacks. Interracial rape is almost exclusively black-on-white, with 14,000 assaults on white women by African-American males in 2007. Not one case of white sexual assault on a black female was found in the FBI study.” (Page 243)
--Note: 433,934/(55,685 + 433,934) = 88.6%
The truth is white people are really getting a kick out of this case since it lets them feel like victims just as black people do.
White victimization. The opiate of the masses.
Half-Sigma makes the interesting observation that Stephanie Eisner (the former cartoonist) is Hispanic. You need to look fairly closely at her resume to see she won some kind of Latino Award at high school.
Zimmerman, Eisner... Boy, these Yiddisher-Latinos stick together.
When I read that article, I knew you'd react to it, and you did so handsomely. I integrated this into a very short Sherlock Holmes story and linked to it here.
"A Scandal in the Media."
I'm pretty sure those Southern and Eastern European immigrants never believed they were "pretty much the same people" as blacks.
We sure never did. We are not blind, you know.
From the LOL files - here's a liberal DC blogger even blaming unabashedly racist Mexican TV shows on whites:
http://carlosqc.blogspot.com/2009/11/disgusting-racism-in-mexican-tv-african.html
Must see TV !!
One of the most famous and most admired cartoonists of all time is Wil Eisner. Circles within circles.
Just to be anal:
his middle name was Garfield. So it would be Lester G. Maddox.
So how many mental chess moves is that?
The part of the article that cracked me up the most was the "three way racial diagram", in which whites displayed an extremely positive attitude about blacks and their capacity for hard work....Yet the article is still trying to pin all racism (TM) on centuries of white oppression.
If anything, the white masses are more than ready to sacrifice themselves at the altar of white guilt. As another commentator pointed out, I'm really starting to doubt the common sense/honesty of whites in comparison to Asians or Latinos...Whites are targeted by flash mobs and black crime constantly yet still can't recognize the trees as part of the forest...It's getting ridiculous.
Um, "Victorian India"? The Caste System existed for thousands of years, before the British ever set foot in India. I suppose it's also just the evil British who made Ghandi complain about the "mixing of the Kaffirs (derogatory term for black Africans) with the Indians", or the fact that the Arabs who encountered black Africans considered them lazy, dull-witted, and lascivious. Every race that has come into contact with black Africans has come up with basically the same conclusions. So maybe, just maybe, it's possible that mestizos developed their low opinion of blacks independently of us evil whiteys.
"In this context, newcomers — like previous waves of immigrants in the past — may feel pressed to identify with the dominant caste"
This is the one grain of truth in the entire article, and it is why so many Hispanics "assimilate" into gangster/thug culture. They sense that, protestations to the contrary, the blacks are the dominant caste. After all, individual blacks are promoted over whites with similar accomplishments, crimes by blacks against whites are treated as innately less heinous than crimes by whites against blacks, and the version of history taught in most public schools paints blacks in the best possible light and whites in the worst possible light.
" My own personal theory is that elites are dumbing down the schools so they can have millions of ignorant proles willing to believe any stupid argument they make."
No, the curriculum is being dumbed down so, at least, a few people could graduate from high school in the inner cities. When I was teaching summer high school classes, none of my students had ever heard of the World War II, Civil War, or the American Revolution. Several people had heard of Vietnam, but weren't sure where, when or why it happened. A couple of people agreed that the name Hitler rang a bell and even had an inkling that he was probably some bad guy, but they weren't sure if he was white or Mexican.
Don't worry. These people don't nor will they ever have any type of an idea of what "Victorian India" might be. And the people who might actually read newspapers have every opportunity to learn general information about India and the way the British found it when they arrived. However, these people will only remember this information during the Trivia Wednesdays, at the brewery. Religion doesn't crumble before education.
I am Lugash.
Kinda OT, but there is a story in the Daily Mail Online about the 7th birthday of twin girls born to multiracial parents. One is white, blonde and blue-eyed, the other dark and brown-eyed.
The kicker is that the mother says Kian, the dark twin, is "a bit bossier, a bit louder", while Remee, the white one, "is a bit more laid back. She'll think a bit longer before she does something".
HBD from the same gene pool!
The Dutch couple that had a white/black twin boys seemed to have the same thing happen. The black twin looked markedly more energetic, outgoing and aggressive.
I am Lugash.
RKU,
Hmmm... This raises an intriguing strategic realignment. WN activists are always complaining that decades of trying to awaken and mobilize their beloved white masses have gotten absolutely nowhere, and the aforementioned polling data certainly supports that grim conclusion.
Don't remind them of that. They hate, hate, HATE being reminded of that. Their revolution has been "soon" for the last forty years. Their logic is: handful of racial factoids, therefore racial revolution. They are beyond delusional. The job of securing a decent racial future for white people is way too important to leave to WNs.
Meanwhile, the Hispanic activists seem to have thrown their own masses under the bus in hopes of getting lots of facetime on FoxNews and grants from the Ford Foundation. So maybe the WNs should just declare themselves Hispanics and immediately become the natural leaders of Latino-America.
Kidding aside, hispanics certainly could be the x-factor that gets race-realism on the table, if for no other reason than hispanics' willingness to speak openly about the negative effects blacks have on their communities. As the Zimmermann case demonstrates, there is huge potential here.
I turned down two job offers this week because:
1) One was in an HR department where I'd have to be constantly saluting the flags of the quota system and the diversity crusade;
2) The other was with a company that acknowledged that I have many years more experience than their management. They spoke at great length about their need to learn from my vast experience. And yet, white guy, that I am, I would be about three rungs down the ladder with the quota hire on the top calling the shots.
Being a member of the dominant class ain't what it used to be.
Stop being such a nice guy. You should have used your white privilege to muscle them.
When I was teaching summer high school classes, none of my students had ever heard of the World War II, Civil War, or the American Revolution.
I find this very hard to believe, even for black students. What grade were you teaching?
"Hispanics watch TV and movies that are filled with wonderful negroes. So, Hispanics should be full of positive images of blacks"
Hispanics also tend to live in or near urban neighborhoods with blacks, on the front line as it were. I doubt the TV image of "wonderful negroes" trumps the urban reality they have to deal with every day.
Most of the Mexican Hispanics I know seem to dislike blacks because of bad experiences they have had living near them.
I don't think it has much to do with whites at all.
It is possible to over-theorize multiple race dynamics.
If your home is broken into, car stolen, or you have been robbed you are likely to form an opinion of the perpetrator that has nothing to do with whites not involved.
Sometimes it's simple.
Uh oh part Trois!
Regarding the graph: this is based on a poll taken in one locale - Durham NC. I vaguely remember some black/Latino clashes in that town in the 90s, indicating a high degree of tension. It is also a college town, part of the Research Triangle, therefore the white population must be quite liberal.
So I suspect that if this had been a nationwide poll instead, Hispanic hostility toward blacks would be a bit less and white negativity toward blacks would be somewhat more.
As the late, great Glayde Whitney once put it:
Every year in the USA, there is an enormous and continuing transfer of wealth, money, power and women from white Americans to black Americans. Since the dawn of history such transfers have only occurred in the context of a subordinate population paying tribute to a dominant populaion.
Uh oh, part quatre!
Part Cinq!
But caste is alive and well in this country, where a still unsettled multiracial society is emerging...
Actually its being imported more than it is "emerging", the way flowers in my garden are starting to emerge from the ground.
As far as "caste" goes, I think the vast majority of the people who've come and made America "multiracial" -- or more so than it was before -- and are poor, i.e. in a lower (economic) "caste", on average, than native Whites, were poor where they came from as well.
It was too hard for me to read further than that.
BTW, here is a foto of the author, Isabel Wilkerson.
Part Cinq!
Ah, there's the smoking gun. Zimmermann's definitely going down now.
Lol.
Truth, do you know of any blacks taking Zimmermann's side? Telling, isn't it?
If whites are less racist than hispanics, then wouldn't imitation of whites be a moderating influence on hispanic racism towards blacks?
Uh oh part Trois!
What a load of crap! One "expert" says apositive ID requires a score of 90, and the score was only 48. That means only that his analysis could not confirm that the voice was Zimmerman's. It does not mean that the voice was not Zimmerman's.
The second expert didn't base his conclusion on anything more than just listening to the recording:
"I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau told the Sentinel. "That's a young man screaming."
Those guys are clowns.
Amusing as 'One of the great tragedies of the last century was the pitting of immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe against African-Americans who had migrated from the rural South to the industrial North.' is, with the implication that they would bond otherwise; there's even the previously noted above hint that caste in India was the fault of the brutal Raj,
Speaking of which, I'd rather like Steve to turn his attention to the new incidence on the web of Indians hilariously claiming that Mother India had no poverty whatever before the British, and that prior to Western incursion the poorest were dressed in jewels and gold un a country that produced 25% of the world's GDP [ insofar as a vague, almost meaningless, concept can be meaningfully applied to pre-recorded economic history... ]
I note that the NYT does not display comments, at least not with this article. They don't want their readership to hear any different opinions from commenters who might just be inclined to tell Ms. Important-Sounding Two-Names that she is full of s**t. This is how "control the narrative".
What an amazing convoluted and ridiculous argument, courtesy of everyone's favorite establishment source, the NYT. Apparently Britain was responsible for the caste system in India, who knew? I seem to recall that the Thernstroms calculated in the 1990's that black on white crime was comparatively speaking 50 times more common than white on black crime, based on the crime rates of the two groups plus the fact that whites were far more numerous. So if the reporter is right and "hate crimes" are more common amongst blacks, that would mean whites are literally hundreds of times more likely to commit them than blacks. Does this sound plausible to anyone with any numeric competence? Going out on a limb here, I would say that hate crime stats are probably not being tabulated uniformly amongst racial groups or different areas of the countries. I'm might even assume that D.A.'s are probably not eager to charge blacks with hate crimes even when the evidence is strong, who needs Eric Holder's DOJ breathing down your neck?
"Truth said...
Uh oh part Trois!"
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty
"The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.
As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare."
So he compared the tape with Zimmerman's voice, but not with Martin's. And on this basis he concludes "with reasonable scientific certainty" that it was not Zimmerman's. Sounds like horses**t to me. But these are the standards of evidence I would expect "Truth" to find compelling.
And isn't it strange that forensic "experts" always happen to return the "expert" opinion desired by those who pay them?
Regarding Truth's joyous exclamation, above, regarding Mr. Owen's "scientific" voice analysis, you can find here a good discussion about forensic "scientists" and their reliability as well as a review of Mr. Owen's "credentials".
For you Jews out there, think "Fred Leuchter" and you will be pretty close to the truth, except Fred Leuchter never had the marketing savvy to create his own "Academy of Execution Equipment Experts" like Mr. Owen and wife's self-manufactured "Academy".
Back in the day (1989-90) I did some legal research and gave a quickie education on forensic evidence and DNA fingerprinting to Prof. Charles Ogletree (HLS) before he headed off to some bar association meeting where he was to expound on the subject. The Castro Case was big news then. My statistical explanation of false positives versus false negatives was a bit challenging even for him, so I am not surprised that Truth is having difficulty with it.
What is disturbing is Truth's rubberstamping of these fly-by-night "experts", particularly when they are most commonly used by low-budget district attorneys to convict poor black men. Who is Truth working for, really?
Paul - But where the race of the offender was known (6,008 offenders), 58.6 per cent were white and 18.4 per cent were black. That comes to 3,520 white offenders and 1,105 black ones. The remainder were race unknown (12% of offenders, around 720)or another race (11% of offenders, or around 660).
And of that 58.6%, how many were actually hispanic, Arab, Turkish etc?
Americans tend to think of the rigid stratification of caste as a distant notion from feudal Europe or Victorian India.
That ridiculous idea has been ripped to shreds by other comments already but its also wrong on another level - the impression that India only came under British rule in the Victorian era.
The Victorians did rule India. But British rule in India (via the East India Company) began long before Victoria was Queen, in fact before she was even born.
So we are being asked to believe that the British ruled India for like 100 years without a rigid caste system, then, at sometime in the 1850s somebody had a eureka moment. "He guys, you know what we need in India? A rigid caste system!"
Why was a rigid caste system not imposed in African countries for example, or anywhere else?
OT (?)
Isn't it time we heard from Whiskey again?
"A USA TODAY/Gallup Poll of a dozen [campaign] battleground states finds a yawning gender gap in a faceoff between President Obama and Republican frontrunner Mitt Romney. They split male voters about equally, but Obama has an overwhelming lead among women."
Link
Ironically, non-whites picked up this attitude from whites.
Whites said 'we are more civilized, therefore more responsible for the good of the whole world'. This attitude was used to justify imperialism and now political correctness.
muggezed by realidad.
OT
Bin Laden family charged and sentenced in Pakistan
So Pakistan also has a problem with illegal immigration? Of wealthy Saudi terrorists? Who knew?
Take note Mr Sailer: They were just illegal immigrants. Nothing more. No one knew they were there. Not the army, not Pakistani security. Must've arrived as tourists and never left. I mean, this prosecution proves it. Also the sincerity of the Pakistanis.
One question: How dumb do they think we are? Don't answer that.
Because whites are responsible for everything, especially smart ones must be chosen to fix the world.
I wonder why Sun Times didn't use the baby photo of the 'intruder'.
By the way, was the intruder UNARMED? Why didn't the news story say so?
Schiff vs shiftless.
"do you know of any blacks taking Zimmermann's side? Telling, isn't it?"
Which brings us to another Wolfe concept: championism.
And whatever happens when "youths" act like a "mob" the race will not be mentioned:
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/03/31/mpls-police-ponder-8-p-m-curfew-after-youth-mob-attacks/#comments
Steve Sailer gives a perceptive and insightful reading of this NYT article -- I only hope that the authors of the article, and their colleagues, give him a careful reading. He points out clearly the blinders that they are wearing - do they see them? Perhaps they are deliberately dishonest in the interest of career stability? Some of the clumsy backwards logic in the article seems pretty obvious once it is picked apart.
Larry Elder, Jesse Lee Peterson, Thomas Sowell, a few others. But I know plenty of whites taking the "Peruvian"'s side.
That's what's telling.
A published letter to the editor of the Chicago Tribune:
”Columnist Clarence Page recently complained that, “Some say that to win back middle-class white voters the Democrats must promote … that minorities and the poor will be required to take some responsibility for lifting themselves up as other ethnics have."
"The call is not for “minorities” to lift themselves up. The criticism is specifically of black Americans. So please do not lump the rest of us “minorities” in. We do not appreciate it. The sentiments Mr. Page ascribes to white voters are also shared by all other minorities ... You will find that no other minority group is making excuses, or demanding special breaks, or calling anyone who disagrees a racist.
"(P)lease let the rest of us minorities speak for ourselves – because we agree with the middle-class white voters. Nobody owes us a living.”
(This was written before the Mexican deluge and signed “Ravi”.)
OT:
Steve, you've written about this guy and his family:
"House Majority Leader Eric Cantor is throwing his support behind the man who calls himself “America’s Rabbi,” Shmuley Boteach, who is running for Congress in New Jersey’s 9th district. Mr. Boteach’s campaign received the maximum $5,000 donation from Mr. Cantor’s political action committee, ERICPAC."
..."Prior to entering politics, Mr. Boteach became famous as an author, reality show host and spiritual guru to Michael Jackson. "
http://www.politicker.com/2012/04/02/eric-cantor-backs-americas-rabbi-shmuley-boteach/
Whites are not less racist than hispanics. Whites are just more passive aggressive.
"One of the great tragedies of the last century was the pitting of immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe against African-Americans who had migrated from the rural South to the industrial North. Both groups were seeking the same thing and were pretty much the same people — people of the land trying to make a way for their families in forbidding and alien places."
This reads like one of Steve's more amusing witticisms. As a serious assertion, however, there is nothing funny about its fundamental dishonesty.
No, both groups bloody well were not seeking "pretty much" the same thing nor were they "pretty much" the same people.
This is an offshoot of or corollary to that "blacks built this country" lie that is seen everywhere these days.
"While blacks make up 12.6 percent of the country’s population, they were 70 percent of the victims of racial hate crimes in 2010."
only because police departments nationwide are extremely reluctant to ever apply hate crime charges when suspects are not euro americans. getting a US prosecutor to charge a suspect under hate crime statutes, if the suspect is not european, is like trying to press two repelling magnets together. you can almost never get them to stick.
the only time this changes is when the victim is gay or falls into the protected bisexual, homosexual, transgender category. and that only changed recently, when gays were elevated to "most important people on earth" status.
indeed, the basic rule in american jurisprudence today is that violent crime is never a hate crime when the suspect is not european. with the corollary now, that violent crime is always a hate crime, if the victim is gay.
some interesting contradictions in liberal behavior over this episode:
when schizophrenic jared loughner shot 20 people, killing 6 and wounding 14, liberals immediately blamed it on a climate of hate fostered by conservatives. they quickly went into standard knee jerk gun control mode. it turned out later that loughner was not motivated by politics at all, and may have been somewhat liberal.
president obama admonished the nation to tone down the rhetoric.
when short fat george zimmerman shot and killed 1 teenager, liberals immediately blamed it on a climate of hate fostered by conservatives. they quickly went into standard knee jerk gun control mode. it turned out later that zimmerman was mestizo, and was in fact a registered democrat.
instead of admonishing the nation to tone down the rhetoric, president obama interjected himself directly into the matter of a minor local crime story, helping to increase tensions instead of trying to diffuse them.
"I find this very hard to believe, even for black students. What grade were you teaching?"
I was teaching 11th grade. You have NO IDEA what it's like in ghetto schools. About half of the kids are functionally illiterate and less than half graduates from my district. The black kids I grew up around weren't like this, not even close. You'd think they'd, at least, have heard of the Civil War, right? I asked them what ended American slavery. They said Martin Luther King. One girl said Obama, but the rest of the kids yelled at her for being stupid.
But, yes, that's what people around the country fail to understand: the ghetto is a different world, not a less educated, poorer, more criminal version of America. It's... indescribable. That's how I, a liberal suburban girl whose favorite high school teachers took pride in their hippy past, ended up googling things that led me to iSteve my first year of ghetto teaching.
Most of my students don't have a single book in the house, not even a bible, even though most identify as Christians. Think about it. The TV is always turned onto some trashy reality show. We don't learn information the first, second or third time we encounter it. But once we learn it, we seem to see it everywhere, so it gets reinforced and is more and more likely to stay with us. These kids only ever get any type of academic information through school. And even in school, they don't stress about paying attention, studying for tests or doing projects if they don't want to.
A bunch of kids enter kindergarten COMPLETELY nonverbal and don't know their own names. My first year I was amazed that they turned out to not be retarded. They just started to catch up like crazy. The majority of our kids have never been taught colors, seasons, numbers or animals before entering school. Think about it.
another thing i find interesting:
liberals are bringing to bear every technical expert they can find, to scrutinize every detail of this minor crime story in florida. now they have audio technicians analyzing phone calls and video technicians analyzing security recordings.
however, in the matter of barack hussein obama's personal documents, birth certificate, college transcripts, and bizarre executive order sealing all this personal information and establishing an army of lawyers and a defense fund to keep all that evidence private...why were no field experts called in to investigate?
back in reality, several computer experts have called into question the validity of the documents produced by the white house, and private investigators specializing in document fraud have found many irregularities with various obama documents anybody actually can get their hands on.
interest level in any of this by the television media is near zero.
Whatever happens,
Whites have got
Culpability,
And we have not.
Hilaire Belloc eat your heart out. Sorry, Steve, but I'm going to swipe this one.
Brilliant.
Primeau concludes voice on tape was not someone 30 or older. Media reports it could not have been Zimmerman, who is... 28!
How many people are on the 911 tape screaming? Two? And, how much did they sample? Do samples of top-of-voice screams compared against speaking work?
If it was Martin screaming on the 911 tape, has the family been making this case all along? Why not? Did it not sound like Martin to them? Are we supposed to believe they have NO audio recordings of Martin for the forensics experts to use for comparison?
If it were Martin screaming, why was he screaming for help rather than running? If he was incapacitated, is that indicated somehow in the autopsy?
Caste is a Portuguese Word. Portuguese in India during 1500s observed the class system and called it Caste[ color AKA Varna in Sanskrit].
But, Caste in India has always been Profession based, Intellectual, Spiritual professions [Teacher, Priest which does not pay much] have been domain of Brahmins. Life of a True Brahmin is very difficult.
Whereas Kyshatriyas[ Rulers, present day Politicians], Vysayas[Business Class] have always been rich. The Sudras [ Peasents and Labors] were employed by the Rich.
Dalits [Outcastes] called so becoz they lived[live] in filth, dont shower, drink Illict Liquor[even today]{Illicit liquor made out of corpses, Tyres. Methanol, etc] kill so many of these people even today. Undertakers from Dalits were rich, though a low profession, Brahmin would sell his mother as proper funeral is very important for a Brahmin.
Present day India is dominated by Lower Castes in Politics and Power, and they swindling their own Castes.
Like a mother who sacrifices her own life for children, Brahmins have tried to bring about Social, Economic, Spiritual change in Indian Society, with a few successes and a few failures.
Karmas will come to roost soon.
My observation with Black people watching all the TV News is they are impulsive with crime like killing a person for a Nike Shoe, iPod etc. May be they will riot, but are incapable of Institutional, organized crime.
Real Truth,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2124095/Trayvon-Martin-case-Enhanced-version-Zimmerman-video-shows-gashes-head.html
It will be interesting, if this ever gets to court (uh-oh, part MCMVII), to see the two legal teams' audio experts spar over it. Rather than just the prosec- er, media's experts asserting.
Larry Elder, Jesse Lee Peterson, Thomas Sowell, a few others. But I know plenty of whites taking the "Peruvian"'s side.
That's what's telling.
There are tons of Whites taking either side. Largely, they're on Team Trayvon - the establishment included.
Blacks? Their usual RACIST!!! selves, of course.
Because white men in charge period
@Anonymous #1 - you jest probably, but, could there be an actual connection?
http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2012/03/dark-coloration-and-male-aggressiveness.html
(I haven't read it, such was my hurry to post before the topic changed. iSteve, you could use a real discussion board setup.)
The caste system in India is ancient and was imposed by the Caucasian invaders from the north to keep themselves separate from the Dravidians.
Think about it.
You have to experience it.
In 2002 I took a driving trip thru the South. When in Vicksburg, MS, I went to a laundromat to wash my clothes. While there a black woman came in with her two kids. Ill-mannered beasts. All of them. I remember thinking: this woman is from another century. The 19th, not even the 20th. I just could not imagine her in a modern workplace. She's probably had a few more kids by now.
"Why was a rigid caste system not imposed in African countries...?"
Why indeed.
This is one of the funniest things I've ever read on iSteve.
"But I know plenty of whites taking the "Peruvian"'s side"
Indeed! White people are far less racist than black people as the link at the bottom of Steves post attests.
"
So he compared the tape with Zimmerman's voice, but not with Martin's..."
And when did Martin call 911?
"So he compared the tape with Zimmerman's voice, but not with Martin's. And on this basis he concludes "with reasonable scientific certainty" that it was not Zimmerman's. Sounds like horses**t to me..."
Well of course it does, Grasshopper;you have an agenda. By the way, they didn't say who's voice it was, they said who's voice it wasn't, they only need one voice for that.
We don't see things the way they are, we see them the way we are
-Ayn Rand
Now that is truly delusional. Believe me, Poles and Ukranians, and Greeks and Italians, do not, and never have, thought they are "the same people" as blacks.
She didn't say we thought of each other as the same people. She said we are ("pretty much") the same people. That's a preposterous idea, but she's not so delusional as to actually believe it*. It's just part of blacks' anti-white strategy, which is to array as many different groups against whites (the original whites, wasps and the like) as possible. That's why she's so aghast at latinos siding with (non-liberal) whites against blacks.
*She can also claim, as part of an obfuscatory defense, she's merely talking about socioeconomic status, since "everyone knows" that race "doesn't exist."
No chance in hell. That is "true" only in the bogus world of the FBI and political correctness, where only whites seem to be charged with hate crimes. In reality I am sure most hate crimes are committed by blacks. A lot of ordinary black crime is motivated by black racial hatred of whites.
Yes, if black criminals were held to the same standards as white criminals I'm sure you'd see the number of white hate-crime victims skyrocket. As it is, a black could rape, torture and kill a white and hang a sign around the victim's neck saying "I f----g hate you white mo---f---rs," and the police chief would rub the back of his neck, stare at the ground, audibly suck in air and warn against jumping to conclusions and suggest that further investigation is necessary before a hate-crime charge can be made.
Her other views about Latinos "adopting" the anti-black views supposedly held by whites is ludicrous. Does she think these people come here as empty slates with no views on blacks at all? Blacks are pretty much despised all across Latin America.
"Despised" is way too strong a word. It's much more subtle than that. Under "colorism", you can't afford to be too negative against the next rank down because you run the risk of having the next rank up be that negative against you. If you're racially sensitive/insecure, that can really hurt. So the trick is to learn to "get over" racism -- not to get over your own racism, but to get over others' racism towards you. If you can do that, then you simply won't care that others may racially object to you. Remember, 99% of it is subtle, so it's not as if you have to tolerate verbal abuse or physical beatings.
Mr. Anonymous said...
"Regarding Truth's joyous exclamation,"
Where did I show joy?
"What is disturbing is Truth's rubberstamping of these fly-by-night "experts","
Who did I rubberstamp?
All I did was post a link, Sport.
We don't see things the way they are, we see them the way we are
-Ayn Rand.
"Who is Truth working for, really?"
Well, no one, actually.
If white dominance affects how hispanics think about blacks why do hispanics assimilate to black cultural norms in other ways, music, clothes, slang etc.
A mystery to be sure.
"There are tons of Whites taking either side."
Well of course, why wouldn't they? It's a conflict between a black, and a Mestizo, right?*
*At least he was Mestizo two weeks ago, it's hard to keep up with y'all.
"You have NO IDEA what it's like in ghetto schools..."
I'm pretty sure I have a better idea than most of those who have not set foot in a ghetto school.
I had no problem believing what you wrote about just how ignorant your students were, based on my own observations and experiences in a low-income mixed-race neighborhood.
"...that's what people around the country fail to understand: the ghetto is a different world, not a less educated, poorer, more criminal version of America. It's... indescribable."
Indescribable, and even after seeing it first-hand, unbelievable.
"A bunch of kids enter kindergarten COMPLETELY nonverbal and don't know their own names. My first year I was amazed that they turned out to not be retarded. They just started to catch up like crazy."
What makes you sure that they aren't mildly retarded? I'd bet they catch up like crazy in their first couple of years at school, after which they proceed to learn much more slowly.
Have you read this?
The Politics of Mental Retardation
Hey, did anyone know that the Duke LAX accuser is now in jail for murdering her boyfriend? Quite a witness for Mike Nifong.
"...it's hard to keep up with y'all."
That right there is the crux of the problem.
Well, that and the ubiquitous fiction that it isn't hard for you all to keep up with us.
And every time you offer what you think is a snappy comeback in place of a genuine argument, you only confirm what we know and you either don't know or don't want to admit you know.
Well of course it does, Grasshopper;you have an agenda. By the way, they didn't say who's voice it was, they said who's voice it wasn't, they only need one voice for that.
Wrong. They didn't prove it wasn't Zimmerman. They only failed to prove that it was. Reread this a few times if you have to. It's a crucial distinction.
Also read the link Mr.Anon posted to a discussion about this at Auster's site -- if you're interested in facts and logic, I mean.
Lastly, come on feller, there are literally millions upon millions upon millions of whites taking Trayvon's side. Do even one million blacks take Zimmerman's?
I suspect a lot of blacks are up in arms because of an inchoate sense that their race cards may one day be confiscated, so a lot of the rage being directed at GZ is an attempt reaffirm the validity of the race card. Even so, the united front of fiery retribution displayed by blacks makes a frightening statement about the sate of racial politics in America (for those willing to see it), and it's not the one blacks think.
"There are tons of Whites taking either side."
Well of course, why wouldn't they? It's a conflict between a black, and a Mestizo, right?*
Then why was it "telling"?
Nearly 60 percent reported feeling that few or almost no blacks were hard-working or could be trusted, while only 10 percent of whites held that view.
Steve, didn't you analyze the voting patterns after Obama won and find that the highest proportion of whites voting for Obama came from states with low black representation where the dominant image of blacks was the Cosby Show?
It was telling, because according to HBD standards, YOU and most of your buddies here outed yourselves as Mestizos.
"Truth said...
""So he compared the tape with Zimmerman's voice, but not with Martin's. And on this basis he concludes "with reasonable scientific certainty" that it was not Zimmerman's. Sounds like horses**t to me...""
Well of course it does, Grasshopper;you have an agenda. By the way, they didn't say who's voice it was, they said who's voice it wasn't, they only need one voice for that."
Yeah, and you're a disinterested seeker after truth.
You have no comprehension of statistics, do you, d**khead (my term for "grasshopper"). The study in question, conducted by Tom Owen (who is not an audio engineer, nor even any kind of engineer, but who has a BA in history - better than your degree, admittedly, but still...), and who just used canned software that he bought, returned a 48% chance that it was Zimmerman's voice. He claimed that 90% would be expected, so he ruled Zimmerman out. But where did he come up with 90%? He likely pulled that number out of his ass. This was not a recording made in a sound-studio, but a recording of someone screaming in the distance, through a telephone, and recorded by 911.
The point is, as he did not compare Martin's voice as well, he has no way of knowing what likelihood to assign THAT. What if comparing the recording to Martin's voice would have also only yielded a 48% probability that it was Martin's voice. Does that mean that neither of them screamed for help? It was the moaning of a wraith upon the wind-swept heath?
There's a good book on statistics for laymen: "How to lie with Statistics". You should get it, and have someone who knows how to read read it to you.
And when did Martin call 911?
A "reporter" named Gutman tweeted that he had a recording of Martin's last call to his girlfriend.
The...point...is...that...the...neighbors...said...that...they...heard...screams...and....Zimmerman...said...that...it...was...he.
The audio analysis disagreed.
According to CNN:
"Audio experts Tom Owen and Ed Primeau analyzed the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel, and both said they believed it was not Zimmerman screaming.
"There's a huge chance that this is not Zimmerman's voice," said Primeau, a longtime audio engineer who is listed as an expert in recorded evidence by the American College of Forensic Examiners International. "As a matter of fact, after 28 years of doing this, I would put my reputation on the line and say this is not George Zimmerman screaming."
"28 years of doing this" His words, not mine. How long have you been doing audio analysis?
"The point is, as he did not compare Martin's voice as well,"
Great, go conduct a seance with a medium and a tape recorder and get one.
"Lastly, come on feller, there are literally millions upon millions upon millions of whites taking Trayvon's side. Do even one million blacks take Zimmerman's?"
For the 14th time, YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE POINT.
According to you, and this site, Blacks are supposed to take Martin's side, THEY'RE BLACK!
And also according to you, and this site, Zimmerman ain't white; SO WHY ARE YOU SO FERVENT IN YOUR DEVOTION TO HIM. He's not part of your tribe.
There are a few possible reasons:
1) Zimmerman is white
2) You are Mestizo
3) You hate blacks, which would make your analysis as useless and subjective as that of the low-IQ blacks you criticize for taking the side of a member of their tribe; which is what "we" are expected to do, So which is i?
My dear Americans! The overseas reader would like to suggest a simple solution to the hate crime issue.
Any violent crime against another person needs to be dealt with and the perpetrator punished.
In addition, a violent crime perpetrated on a person of another race is also a crime against civil society. This is because stable racial relations are important to everyone living in a multiracial society, and violence between races threatens that stability more than anything else.
Therefore I propose that any violent offence perpetrated against a person of another race would carry an extra 30% on top of any sentence.
No need to try and look into the heart of the perpetrator, to find out what particular brand of hatred inspired him most. You harm another person, you get punished. You harm the stability of civil society as well, you get punished a little more. Simple as that.
Didn't Holder give guns to mexican thugs and didn't some american get killed?
so what is wrong with a hispanic guy killing some guy in america?
Truth,
For the 14th time, YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE POINT.
According to you, and this site, Blacks are supposed to take Martin's side, THEY'RE BLACK!
I've never said blacks are "supposed to" take (what they perceive as) the black side. It's my belief that blacks do take that side, instinctively, and cling to it tenaciously, reason be damned. But what I actually believe blacks are supposed to do is just what blacks would expect of anyone else: be impartial.
Now, in a case like this, although I believe GZ to have basically acted appropriately, it's easy to see how others might disagree. That's why there are so many millions of whites genuinely split between TM and GZ (there are also some disingenuous whites who ideologically support "the black side" in cases like this no matter what). There do not appear to be millions of blacks equally split, however. For them it's been naked racial politics from day one.
And also according to you, and this site, Zimmerman ain't white; SO WHY ARE YOU SO FERVENT IN YOUR DEVOTION TO HIM. He's not part of your tribe.
Two reasons.
(1) Impartiality.
(2) Racial politics straight back atcha. Better get used to it. (This being said, I wouldn't be so fervent if I honestly believed GZ in the wrong.)
I dont know about her politis, but she is kinda of a hottie.
DanJ,
Therefore I propose that any violent offence perpetrated against a person of another race would carry an extra 30% on top of any sentence.
No need to try and look into the heart of the perpetrator, to find out what particular brand of hatred inspired him most. You harm another person, you get punished. You harm the stability of civil society as well, you get punished a little more. Simple as that.
A most excellent proposal.
I'm curious. I've suggested the same myself in comments on this blog; was this your inspiration or did you hit upon the above independently? I don't mind at all if you got the idea off me -- take it and run with it, spread it far and wide -- but I'd find it very encouraging if you reached similar conclusions independently. It would suggest to me the tide may finally be turning against racial fantasy, towards racial realism.
Silver,
haven't seen your earlier comments on the subject, sorry. I agree it would be nice to see the idea picked up. I think 30% added sentence for any interracial violence would be logical and fair.
Importantly, it would also actually prevent such violence, as the would-be offender could easily understand the rationale of the sentencing. The present hate crime legislation is too convoluted to deter anyone.
I think 30% added sentence for any interracial violence would be logical and fair.
It's the rationale underlying the whole thing that needs to gain widespread appreciation, support and acceptance. The details can be quibbled over later.
Importantly, it would also actually prevent such violence, as the would-be offender could easily understand the rationale of the sentencing. The present hate crime legislation is too convoluted to deter anyone.
I'm not sure it's being too convoluted that is the problem quite as much as it is that it seems to only deter whites. I sometimes wonder whether other races (blacks especially) can even conceive that hate-crimes against whites are possible -- much less acknowledge that they are problematic. A large part of the reason for that, I believe, is the general lack of understanding that whites are people, too, meaning whites have a right to defend themselves as a people. Anytime whites try, it gets called "racism." So the process of seeing across the board interracial violence prevention legislation enacted should also prove quite educational for large numbers whites and non-whites alike. Admittedly, it's a longshot. But then again so is anything attempts to treat, as I put it, whites as people (instead of pieces of meat who exist only to serve others' needs).
Silver, I give up.
Why didn't Trayvon call 911? If he was a young, innocent little kid, being chased by a massive, racist white guy, why did he call his girlfriend but not the police? It seems that there was plenty of time to do so and if Trayvon was truly in fear for his life, plenty of motivation. There are so many unanswered questions.
"Truth said...
According to CNN:"
.... The new standard of "Truth"....
"Audio experts Tom Owen and Ed Primeau analyzed the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel, and both said they believed it was not Zimmerman screaming.
"There's a huge chance that this is not Zimmerman's voice," said Primeau, a longtime audio engineer who is listed as an expert in recorded evidence by the American College of Forensic Examiners International. "As a matter of fact, after 28 years of doing this, I would put my reputation on the line and say this is not George Zimmerman screaming."
The American College of Forensic Examiners International is a vanity credentialling institute created by Tom Owen. Owen is not an audio engineer. And, given his association with this schlocky "college", I would seriously doubt Primeau as well.
They are "experts", only in the same sense that you are an "expert", "Sport". i.e. not at all.
""The point is, as he did not compare Martin's voice as well,""
"Great, go conduct a seance with a medium and a tape recorder and get one."
He can't make a valid comparison. That's the point you are to howlingly stupid to grasp.
Nitwit.
"Both groups [blacks and Eastern and Southern Euros] were seeking the same thing and were pretty much the same people — people of the land trying to make a way for their families in forbidding and alien places."
Only an insular Jew could have written this. Let's unpack.
1. "both groups ... were pretty much the same people." Blacks, Italians, whatever - all goyim, in other words pretty much the same people.
2. "Seeking the same thing." Food. All cattle are after food.
3. "People of the land." A Hungarian impresario, a sub-Saharan slave, an Italian draftsman, whatever - basically all these are the farmer types who are the same in every country.
4. "trying to make a way for their families in forbidding and alien places." The one and only criterion of virtue is being an alien in a forbidding place; it's also the keynote of sympathy.
The ignorance, insularity, and arrogance are off the charts. But that's par for the course, isn't it?
"28 years of doing this" His words, not mine. How long have you been doing audio analysis?
Most people have been doing Primeau's sort of audio analysis all our lives.
It was telling, because according to HBD standards, YOU and most of your buddies here outed yourselves as Mestizos.
Wow, yeah, amazing "gotcha" moment there. You've won a prize: go to the nearest' doctor's office to collect your free lolipop.
"28 years of doing this" His words, not mine. How long have you been doing audio analysis?
38, but my credentials aren't quite as prestigious; on the other hand, I have little difficulty saying that anyone who accepts those experts should accept me as one as well.
No need to try and look into the heart of the perpetrator, to find out what particular brand of hatred inspired him most. You harm another person, you get punished. You harm the stability of civil society as well, you get punished a little more. Simple as that.
That would have DISPARATE IMPACT!!! (against Blacks. But I repeat myself), which means you're A RACIST!!! for suggesting it.
"38, but my credentials aren't quite as prestigious; on the other hand, I have little difficulty saying that anyone who accepts those experts should accept me as one as well."
No, probably not; he has pride in his abilities, and what he considers a sterling reputation. He may or may not be correct, but his personal belief in himself indicates self-confidence. You and I have been here five years, and you have yet to muster up the cojones to tell anyone what you do for a living, so...
"Truth said...
No, probably not; he has pride in his abilities, and what he considers a sterling reputation. He may or may not be correct, but his personal belief in himself indicates self-confidence."
Unwarranted self-confidence is the hallmark of the incompetent ..... you for example.
"Truth said...
Larry Elder, Jesse Lee Peterson, Thomas Sowell, a few others. But I know plenty of whites taking the "Peruvian"'s side.
That's what's telling."
What's telling is that smart guys like Larry Elder and Thomas Sowell, men of probity and erudition, disagree with you?
That's telling. As you might say.....you're words, not mine.
I still haven't given my opinion on the case, how do you know that Sowell, etc., and I, disagree?
No, what I've done is recount FACTS on the case, for the most part.
No, probably not; he has pride in his abilities, and what he considers a sterling reputation. He may or may not be correct, but his personal belief in himself indicates self-confidence."
That's mighty black of you, truth - confusing confidence with competence.
"Most people have been doing Primeau's sort of audio analysis all our lives."
They've been doing Ron Jeremy's occupation for a fair number of years, too, but that doesn't make them experts.
"Unwarranted self-confidence is the hallmark of the incompetent ..... you for example."
Thanks for clearing that up, I thought you were making a hypothetical.
"That's mighty black of you, truth - confusing confidence with competence."
I don't hire anyone who won't tell me he's good.
"Truth said...
""That's mighty black of you, truth - confusing confidence with competence.""
I don't hire anyone who won't tell me he's good."
You have that in common with the clients of Enron, Bernie Madoff, and Dr. Conrad Murray.
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