It's often argued that in the future, as white racism slowly loses influence, more people will be allowed to declare themselves white, just like, as everybody knows, the Irish weren't white back in the days of John L. Sullivan, but now they are.
In reality, however, the trend appears to be in the opposite direction. For example, the federal government is currently pondering whether to declare Arabs to be a minority for the purpose of receiving minority business development goodies.
From Al Arabiya News:
The decision to enlist members of the Arab American business community as socially or economically disadvantaged has been postponed by a business development agency hearing the case.
The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC), the largest grassroots civil rights organizations in the United States for Arab Americans, was expecting the U.S. Minority Business Development Agency (MBDA) to make a final verdict on whether Arab American business people can be categorized as a minority on Wednesday, but the decision was postponed.
“The date has been moved up 30 days to late July,” said Abed Ayoub, Legislative Director of ADC, in an email to Al Arabiya.
Groups that are eligible for MBDA services included Hasidic Jews, Asian Pacific Americans and Asian Indians who have eligible for assistance from the MBDA.
If ADC’s petition passes through, more grants and funding will be funneled to the Arab American business community.
There will also be more contracts for the community that can be applied on the federal, local and state levels, Fay Beydoun, Executive Director of Arab American Chamber of Commerce, told Al Arabiya. ...
ADC’s petition is full of details and descriptions on how the Arab community is as a distinct one whether in their skin color, food habits and music, and how the group has had faced discrimination ever since their migration to the U.S. in the 19th century. ...
It brought up a case by Dr. H. el-Kouri, a Syrian physician in Birmingham, who defended Arabs against derogatory public comments made by congressman John L Burnet in 1907.
Here's Wikipedia's list of famous Arab-Americans, which looks like a list of random famous white people.
Hasidic Jews
ReplyDeleteWhat, no love for Mitnagdim?
The Muslim population in America doubled since 9/11
ReplyDeleteApparently the Hispanics weren't displacing us fast enough.
Just think what Steve Jobs could have achieved if he had not been discriminated against because of his Arab appearance.
ReplyDeleteAnd consider too what Jews of Arab ascent could achieve in this country without all the discrimination against them.
In the great ledger of inter-ethnic American wrongs, does an anti-Arab remark by an American politician in 1907 really outweigh some, ah, slightly more spectacular acts committed in the opposite direction just a few years ago? Silly me, of course it does.
ReplyDeleteWhat if you're of Spanish descent but DNA testing reveals you have north African ancestry? Does that count?
ReplyDeleteHere's Wikipedia's list of famous Arab-Americans, which looks like a list of random famous white people.
ReplyDeleteMost of the people on that list are Lebanese Christians - probably descendants of the pilgrims in the great Lebanese Christian diaspora which occurred about a century ago, as the Ottoman Empire was disintegrating, and the Lebanese didn't want to be on the receiving end of the kinds of pogroms that the Azerbaijanis were unleashing on the Armenians.
Anyway, there are a ton of staggeringly talented Lebanese Christians now dispersed throughout the world whose ancestors were part of that wave of emigrants.
PS: If we here at iSteve are not being extra careful to distinguish between e.g. Arab CHRISTIAN immigrants and Arab MUSLIM immigrants, then we've all just failed HBD 101: Introduction to the Peoples of the World.
The ones on the list that are Lebanese are mostly Christian and not what we usually think of as "Arab" (Muslim).
ReplyDeleteUhhh I hope the Feds know that Arabic speaking Christians are the rivals of Jews when it comes to capitalism. Carlos Slim and Nassim Taleb probably aren't who they have in mind, but technically they are Arab. 1,200+ years of paying the Jizya has a way of breeding a population for trade and money making.
ReplyDelete-Hank the Plant
I don't see how affirmative action can be defended for anyone other than blacks and American Indians. Everyone else's ancestors chose to come to this country, presumably because it offered them a better life than what they had.
ReplyDeleteBut that list (like Arab-Americans generally) is mostly composed of Levantine Christians.
ReplyDeleteIt's also interesting to note that the way the list is drawn up is an artifact of US cultural assumptions. Arab Jews are mostly put only on the list of Jewish-Americans but not on the list of Arab-Americans, whereas for other countries (e.g. Britain) they are put on both lists.
how the group has had faced discrimination ever since their migration to the U.S. in the 19th century. ... a case...defended Arabs against derogatory public comments...
ReplyDeleteNext is an industry of discriminators. A Pacific islander moves to the U.S. and hires someone to discriminate against them. Money then flows. Win win.
"Doug Flutie, (Lebanese father) NFL Player of the Buffalo Bills and San Diego Chargers."
ReplyDeleteInstead affirmative action, a better reform would be requiring teams to dropkick extra points and field goals.
http://youtu.be/P0Jsz-fSNd4
Wow, yet another corrupt mercantile minority gets a shot at government contracts and subsidized loans. I suppose nobody has figured out yet the reason why all the gas stations in America are owned by minorities who are more interested in selling you junk food, liquor, and condoms than providing excellent roadside service or clean rest rooms.
ReplyDeleteWe are rapidly approaching the point where everyone in the country will be eligible for affirmative action except...me.
ReplyDeleteIt literally gets worse with each passing day in this country.
ReplyDeleteRacial draft, part 2, would definitely have to include Salma Hayek. What would the Mexicans have to give up to get her completely? Probably Carlos Slim and a future #1 (lottery protected).
ReplyDeleteThe Hasids aren't as rich as their assimilated cousins...but how is this oppression? They can just ditch the black cloaks, shave the beards, and boom.
ReplyDeleteSo latinos, blacks, asians, arabs, are eligible. When does it just become simpler to say "no whites."
ReplyDeleteNo Eddie Nash?
ReplyDeleteSo whites are the legislated pariahs and thus it makes perfect rational sense to shun the 'white' status.
ReplyDeleteCuriously, this must be the only incident in history where a dominant group has voluntarily abased itself to become the stigmatized, discriminated group.
The only word for this is 'perverse'.
Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.
ReplyDeleteThe Wikipedia list your post referenced, Mr. Sailer, contains a great proportion of individuals who are, were, or descended from Lebanese and other Middle Eastern Christian sects.
ReplyDeleteWikipedia's list of famous Arab-Americans
ReplyDeleteI like Frank Zappa on that list. "Half Arab father!".
One more leech on the body of European white male earners and taxpayers.
ReplyDelete- A Solid Citizen
The Muslim population in America doubled since 9/11.... Sometimes I wonder about this country..
ReplyDeletethat is a direct result of the so called war on terror-
the state department trades green cards for 'information' the information is usually useless, the green cards permanent. I can't get it into liberals (or necons) thick heads that it will effect our society. THey welcome it.
Wow--more votes for Barry.
ReplyDeleteI didn't read everything that was in the petition, but I did respond and cite:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.aaiusa.org/pages/demographics/
Similar to the national average, about 60% of Arab American adults are in the labor force; with 5% unemployed. 73% percent of working Arab Americans are employed in managerial, professional, sales or administrative fields. Most Arab Americans work in the private sector (79%), while 12% are government employees. Median income for Arab American households is $59,012 compared to a median income of $52,029 for all households in the United States.
I also note that:
Median income for Arab American households in 2008 was $56,331 compared with $51,369 for all households in the United States. Mean individual income is 27% higher than the national average of $61,921. 13.7% of Arab Americans live below the poverty line, though the figure increases to over 28% for single mothers.
So an Irish immigrant back in 1880 had the same social status of someone who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower?
ReplyDeleteI don't think he's ever said any such thing.
Terrorism does work.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous @ 9:13am - "why [...] did pubs in Boston in the mid 1800s have signs at the door that read: "no dogs or Germans allowed"?"
ReplyDeleteWho ran the pubs in Boston in the mid-1800s? I suspect it was mostly Hiberno-Americans, not Anglo-Americans.
In any case, I don't accept the premise that such signs existed. The infamous "NINA" (No Irish Need Apply) signs seem to be almost entirely an urban myth, so I'd like to see evidence for similar claims before I believe them.
http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm
So please explain to me why, since you claim that non-Anglo white ethnicities were never discriminated against by the white Anglo majority, did pubs in Boston in the mid 1800s have signs at the door that read: "no dogs or Germans allowed"?
ReplyDeleteThis seems to be an urban legend of wide currency.
All Chinese people (including my wife) believe that there was a sign at the entrance to a park in the pre-1941 Shanghai International Concession reading NO DOGS OR CHINESE ALLOWED.
Back in the 1980s, writing a nonfiction book (never published) about China, I tried to track down some actual evidence of there having been such a sign.
In spite of holding a reader's card to the splendid library at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London (which has shelves and shelves full of merchant, missionary, and diplomatic memoirs going back to the Opium Wars), the best I could come up with was a rather dubious b&w photograph in a 1950s ChiCom propaganda text.
This kind of obvious ethnic grievance-mongering is too easy to make up and propagate. Without good-quality evidence for the truth of the claim, it should not be repeated.
Also,
ReplyDelete"intellectual dishonesty".
I'm glad someone flagged this phrased up recently. I'd been bothered by it for a while without being able to put my finger on why, but as another poster said, it's a redundant particularisation. There is no dishonesty that is not generated by the intellect. The phrase is a piece of empty verbiage designed to make the speaker sound intelligent (which it fails to do).
Also, I only ever see it used by left/liberal/pro-PC types. It's one of their stock insults. By their cries of "that's intellectually dishonest!" shall ye know them.
Alexander Kazam wrote about this in National Review :
ReplyDelete"the petition implies that Arab Americans suffer social discrimination due in part to their “distinctive food dishes,” such as hummus and baklava (both have been well integrated into the American diet), and their “unique music tradition” including “the use of percussion instruments not normally found in American culture.”
"we are informed that in some localities in the early 1900s Arabs were referred to as “Dago” and “Sheeny,” and on another we learn that three elevator operators in New York were awarded $30,000 in damages because a supervisor called them “camel jockeys.”
"the ADC concedes that Arab Americans are “relatively well-educated,” but on the very same page declares that Arab Americans are “undereducated.” They are undereducated, we learn, because Muslim prayer times and the month of fasting are “not respected” in American schools"
The whole point of Elite politics globally, in the West, is the alliance of:
ReplyDeleteHereditary Elites plus
Blacks plus
Latinos plus
Muslims plus
Gays plus
White women.
Who is not on the list? Straight White guys.
The politics are basic spoils, take from Straight White guys and give to everyone else. That's it. OF COURSE the whole point is to define as many people as possible in the coalition of takers BUT like the tragedy of the commons, eventually you get a fight over money that is existential.
We've probably reached that point now.
WHY has this been so effective? Because White women HATE HATE HATE White beta males, basically. The compromises required to produce technological prowess, wealth, stability, and the good life run right against the desire for women to have lots of sexy, dominant, Alpha A-hole men.
Your basic pocket protector nerd, who creates teflon, or the Apple computer (Steve Wozniak not Jobs is who I'm talking here), or helps design a power plant, or is part of a team that runs a nuclear power plant, can't indulge in the Alpha dominance displays, the sexy Alpha-ness of a Charlie Sheen or John Mayer.
Evolutionary speaking, women tend to be in a fairly narrow band, smart but not too smart (a Heartiste commenter noted that nature does not play with the house money on baby-makers, that's for cheap sperm aka men). That has evolutionary results in cultural collapse, as the welfare state, plus contraception, plus mass media supported by consumer advertising has devalued the beta male provider and made White women assume that technology, safety, security just "happen" and will continue even as overt discrimination against the providers reaches a terminal phase.
There may be a lot of ruin in a nation, but that curve can be discontinuous suddenly. America's future is not Brazil, the Black and Hispanic underclass "needs" $200 sneakers and won't be happy living in favelas.
To understand this, Aaron Sorkin's "Broadcast News" tv series has a line in which Emily Mortimer's character says she'll take a White guy and instead of making him an arrogant prick make him sexy again. To which other characters wonder if White guys were ever sexy.
Anonymous:"So an Irish immigrant back in 1880 had the same social status of someone who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower?"
ReplyDeleteOf course not, but, then again, a Cockney who immigrated to the USA in 1880 would not have had the same social status as a Mayflower descendant either.
Anonymous:"Interesting. So please explain to me why, since you claim that non-Anglo white ethnicities were never discriminated against by the white Anglo majority, did pubs in Boston in the mid 1800s have signs at the door that read: "no dogs or Germans allowed"?"
Don't recall Steve ever claiming prejudice and discrimination did not exist for non-Anglos.Heck, some Protestant Anglos have been discriminated against (look up the history of the Quakers in Massachusetts). On the other hand, he has pointed out that those prejudices have been vastly overstated (cf the myth of the "No Irish Need Apply" sign).
Anonymous:"Go to Omaha or Cincinnati and ask a crowd of random white people if Arabs are white. "
I can do you one better. Go to Omaha and Cincinnati and ask people if they think that, say, Ralph Nader, John Sununu, and William Peter Blatty are White. Pretty sure that the vote would be in the affirmative.
Syon
[2008] Mean individual income ... national average of $61,921.
ReplyDeleteAre you sure you have that right?
Affirmative Action no longer means redress for past discrimination (as if that were somehow possible across generations anyway). No, what it means now is paving the way for people of lower IQ, lower skills, lower social intelligence, less impulse control, limited imagination and little or no knowledge combined with a fat dollop of belief in utter falsehoods.
ReplyDeleteIn which case, yeah, Arabs.
Did the "Swamp Yankees" ever become white?:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swamp_Yankee
The term "Swamp Yankee" sounds rather demeaning.
Wow, at this rate the rest of southern Europeans will get included too, maybe the umbrella of "Latin" will be extended. Probably followed by Eastern Europeans, and then the Irish and Germans too since they were also discriminated against. Pretty soon only white males of British/Scandinavian/Dutch descent will be the only individuals ineligible for affirmative action...
ReplyDeleteIt literally gets worse with each passing day in this country.
ReplyDeletehate to sound pessimistic but i can't help but agree.
The US is trapped in the 'invade the World, invite the World' dogma...
ReplyDelete"Wow, yet another corrupt mercantile minority gets a shot at government contracts and subsidized loans. I suppose nobody has figured out yet the reason why all the gas stations in America are owned by minorities who are more interested in selling you junk food, liquor, and condoms than providing excellent roadside service or clean rest rooms."
ReplyDeleteImmigrants are just more hard working than lazy Americans. I'm filled with admiration for their pluck, can-do spirit, and willingness to unbox Snickers bars, sell lottery tickets, and watch satellite TV for 16 hours a day. Just the kind of nation sustaining people we need.
@Anonymous 10:17 PM
ReplyDelete"I don't think he's ever said any such thing."
Yes, he did. I am not talking about socio-ECONOMIC status, but pure social status independent of affluence. It is foolish to assume that an Irish immigrant, even if he earned the same as an American of English descent who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower, received the same respect and consideration from the Society as Mayflower man. This is NOT debateable. Sorry.
I'd be wary of submitting any constructive criticism to that MBDA.gov site--looks like your garden variety "smoke out the crimethinkers" op; Janet Napolitano might send a few BearCat G3s up your driveway.
ReplyDelete"What would the Mexicans have to give up to get her completely? Probably Carlos Slim and a future #1"
ReplyDeleteIsn't Carlos Slim descended from Lebanese immigrants? Maybe that walrus mustache helps him pass for mestizo.
Brazil is full of Lebanese Christians... They pretty much own São Paulo.
ReplyDelete"Anonymous Davis said...
ReplyDeleteTerrorism does work."
No shit. The chain of events leading to the election of Obama, accelerated illegal and Muslim immigration, and the rampant growth of diversity enhancing government were set in motion by 9/11. No 9/11, no second term for Bush. No second term, no housing bubble. No housing bubble, no financial meltdown in 2008. No war on terror. No Demo congress in 2006. No fucking Obamacare. No endless protections against profiling of nonwhites. No hate crime law. No trillions spent on bogus stimulus projects, many of which benefited foreign companies and illegal alien workers.
The Irish ain't White. ;-)
ReplyDelete@Anonymous: So an Irish immigrant back in 1880 had the same social status of someone who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower? Interesting. So please explain to me why, since you claim that non-Anglo white ethnicities were never discriminated against by the white Anglo majority blah blah blah...
ReplyDeleteThe problem, I think, is that there is a discrepancy of what you regard as white and what American Anglos regard as white.
Hey, aren't you that "Anonymous" from an earlier thread with a Carboniferous-dragonfly-sized bug up your butt about WASPS and white-osity? Still fighting the good fight against Thurston Howell III, I see.
On that Wikipedia list is actor Tony Shalhoub, of Christian descent, who played a Lebanese Shiite FBI agent in the ridiculously PC terrorism movie "The Siege." This reminded me of my 2 favorite roles of his: the Italian chef in "Big Night" and the Jewish movie producer in "Barton Fink"
ReplyDeleteConservatives can't oppose this because then they would have to discuss why Asians and (some)Jews are eligible for this stuff.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone else noticed that conservative pundits and GOP politicians have strenuously avoided talking about AA since about 1996.
"In the great ledger of inter-ethnic American wrongs, does an anti-Arab remark by an American politician in 1907 really outweigh some, ah, slightly more spectacular acts committed in the opposite direction just a few years ago? Silly me, of course it does." - 2001 was 11 years ago, quit harping on it.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDelete@Steve Sailer
... So please explain to me why...did pubs in Boston in the mid 1800s have signs at the door that read: "no dogs or Germans allowed"?
___________________________________
Whatever the reason they didn't like germans, I doubt that it was because they thought that they weren't white. The Anglos might have thought of the germans as uncouth, uncivilized peasants, but did they debate whether germans had souls or whether germans' nature was to be slaves ? I doubt it.
---
(!!!!!!) Go to Omaha or Cincinnati and ask a crowd of random white people if Arabs are white.
===
Rather ask them if they think Ralph Nader, Helen Thomas, Steve Jobs or Tony Rezko are white.Or ask about that Mitch Daniels guy.
Do you know any lebanese christians? I know one dude who's half lebanese and the guy is just an ordinary white guy. Nothing exotic about him whatsoever and he never talks about his leb side. Probably doen't care at all.
===
Then ask them if people from India are white. We both know what they will say.
===
Indians have not (yet?) assimilated into the white population so very few consider them white. The arab americans who came to america 100 years ago are, otoh, utterly assimilated. I'd say magnificently assimilated in fact.
To anonymus of 9.13 AM
ReplyDeleteDepends on the Arab...
Steve Jobs was white before is Arab father was discovered;Fred Mercury was white until someone knows that is true name was Boulsara; If Assad changes is name to smith and goes to Montana, he will be white until...
"Arab" is about as prolapsed a category as "Hispanic."
ReplyDeleteThere is a simple solution to this phenomenon: Pass a law making the set-asides a fixed pot of money, and similarly one making the number of AA admissions a fixed number. Magically, left-handed red-haired lesbians with one leg will find it hard to be added to the list of AA-eligible groups, because all the others will know that thus means less for them.
ReplyDeleteWell, a simpler solution would be to eliminate these racial/ethnic patronage schemes, but since those are part of the ruling class consensus, it's not likely to happen anytime soon.
Trailer trash have lower social status. Therefore they aren't white. Do I have that correct?
ReplyDeleteAnon:
ReplyDeleteDo you have a cite for the claim that theMuslim population in the US doubled since 9/11? The Pew Center data I could find didn't seem to support that at all,, though it also made a big point of how all numbers thrown around about nmber of Muslims in the US are pretty fuzzy.
So an Irish immigrant back in 1880 had the same social status of someone who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower?
ReplyDeleteWould a penniless WASP from the East End of London fresh of the boat in 1880 have the same social status as someone who's ancestors arrived with the Mayflower?
As a libertarian informal discrimination is completely outside your remit anyway. Its simply not something you are allowed to concern yourself with.
A lot of those Arabs mentioned are Lebanese Christians or similar. Clearly in smallish numbers their assimilation to the white majority hasnt been impossible in the past. You would probably find other examples in Europe as well.
ReplyDeleteI've seen signs that said Stop the War on Women. How about some that say Stop the War On White People.
ReplyDelete"So an Irish immigrant back in 1880 had the same social status of someone who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower? Interesting. So please explain to me why, since you claim that non-Anglo white ethnicities were never discriminated against by the white Anglo majority, did pubs in Boston in the mid 1800s have signs at the door that read: "no dogs or Germans allowed"?
ReplyDeleteI am part Irish, but I have no problem with discriminating against the Irish or any other people. That's part of nature.Look out for your own.
Some question the existing of those signs, but if they did exist who cares.
Why not? The goverment bumps ahead in line every other newly arrived "minority" group who comes to the US ahead of white men whose ancestors came here hundreds of years ago and built up the US from nothing into the dominant superpower of the world.
ReplyDeleteThere is a huge difference between Arabic-speaking Levantine Christians and, say, Yemenis. That's why I think the term Arab is a bit like the term Hispanic. It doesn't describe an actual ethnic group, just a collection of ethnic groups and subgroups with a common language.
ReplyDeleteEven though they speak Arabic, Lebanese Christians generally don't consider themselves Arab. Copts and Iraqi Christians never describe themselves as Arab.
A lot of Lebanese and Syrian Americans are descended from Christians who came here in the early 20th century. They have more in common with Greek and Italian Americans than with recently arrived Muslim immigrants from Yemen or Morocco.
Derogatory comments in 1907? I hang my head in shame.
ReplyDeleteRevilo P. Oliver wrote that countries like Syria, Marroco, Iraq are not really Arab nations.
ReplyDeleteMore like a mass of mongrels, the only real pure Arabs are in Saudi Arabia.
Whiskey said...
ReplyDeleteThe whole point of Elite politics globally, in the West, is the alliance of:
Hereditary Elites plus
Blacks plus
Latinos plus
Muslims plus
Gays plus
White women.
Who is not on the list?
The Scots-Irish?
So would say, John Sununu be considered a "white Arab"
ReplyDeleteSpencer Abraham was an enthusiastic border-nullification crusader in the WSJ mold.
ReplyDeleteI realize yes, there's probably a loosely comparable Arab-American counter-example (though certainly nobody equivalent) however, I can't remember one at the moment, frankly. The Sununus? James Abourezk?
A funny moment I saw on Fox News about 10 years ago was Mitch Daniels being interviewed by Rita Cosby (the pudgy blonde who sounded like a Christmas ham was caught in her windpipe). Somewhere mid-way through the interview she inanely asked what his feelings were about being of Syrian descent, which prompted him to sorta look blankly into the camera for 5 seconds. I hope karma sees to it that she ends up some day co-hosting an overnight show with that Hoda woman.
ReplyDelete"...can't indulge in the Alpha dominance displays, the sexy Alpha-ness of a Charlie Sheen or John Mayer."
ReplyDelete- Alright, I can kinda see Sheen as engaging in Alpha Dominance displays, in so much as getting drunk and behaving the way drunken frat boys will do is at least relegated to the realm of masculinity, but John Mayer? This guy exudes feminism. He may talk some trash, but what are your lyin' eyes gonna believe?
It brought up a case by Dr. H. el-Kouri, a Syrian physician in Birmingham, who defended Arabs against derogatory public comments made by congressman John L Burnet in 1907.
ReplyDeleteBy standards such as these, AA for German-Americans is an absolute moral necessity.
Lebanese and Syrian Christians in America are basically white ethnics with really good food and prettier women than the Greeks or Italians.
ReplyDeleteIt is foolish to assume that an Irish immigrant, even if he earned the same as an American of English descent who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower, received the same respect and consideration from the Society as Mayflower man. This is NOT debateable. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteShould ANY person in America receive the same respect and consideration from society as a Mayflower man? I've never met an actual descendant of a Mayflower passenger. But if I did, assuming they were a normal law-abiding citizen, I'd show them a little more respect based upon that fact. If I ever ran across a person who was a 'Son/Daughter of the American Revolution', I'd do the same. I think we follow-on non-WASP types need to start showing more appreciation to those who built the place.
"More like a mass of mongrels, the only real pure Arabs are in Saudi Arabia."
ReplyDeleteSome tribes in Saudi Arabia, such as the 'flower man' tribe are generally pure Arab due to their isolation. Though many Saudi Arabians have varying degrees of sub-saharan mixture because of their slave trade. North Africans are similar, though they tend to have a lot of Berber admixture in them. Marsh Arabs, in Iraq, are good examples of so called 'pure Arabs' http://homersykes.photoshelter.com/image/I00005KHm_T6xMT8
Many Jews from Iraq could also be considered pure Arab as well.
"This reminded me of my 2 favorite roles of his: the Italian chef in "Big Night" and the Jewish movie producer in "Barton Fink"
ReplyDeleteThe Jewish movie producer in "Barton Fink" was played by Michael Lerner.
"There is a huge difference between Arabic-speaking Levantine Christians and, say, Yemenis. That's why I think the term Arab is a bit like the term Hispanic. It doesn't describe an actual ethnic group, just a collection of ethnic groups and subgroups with a common language.
ReplyDeleteEven though they speak Arabic, Lebanese Christians generally don't consider themselves Arab. Copts and Iraqi Christians never describe themselves as Arab.
A lot of Lebanese and Syrian Americans are descended from Christians who came here in the early 20th century. They have more in common with Greek and Italian Americans than with recently arrived Muslim immigrants from Yemen or Morocco."
As someone who lived in Dearborn, MI for 2 years, I can vouch for this. My guess is that the average anglo might barely accept a Northern Middle Eastern (i.e. Syrian or Lebanese) Arab Christian as "white", and even then they might not be thrilled about letting their daughter marry one. But they would definitely not do the same for the newer arrivals which tend to be more Southern, like Yemenis, Egyptians, etc. The Arabs are in fact almost as diverse as the Hispanics.
"More like a mass of mongrels, the only real pure Arabs are in Saudi Arabia."
ReplyDeleteNot really. The Saudis are a very mixed people. You can tell that they have substantial sub-Saharan admixture (from "modern" times, going no more than a few thousand years back), probably due to their age old practice of slavery.
Oh, please, my midwestern German/Scots-Irish (for real) father's extended family was delighted when he married my Christian Lebanese mother. They thought of her as an exotic white person with interesting cuisine and a more extroverted nature who would make family get togethers more fun.
ReplyDeleter. But if I did, assuming they were a normal law-abiding citizen, I'd show them a little more respect based upon that fact. If I ever ran across a person who was a 'Son/Daughter of the American Revolution', I'd do the same. I think we follow-on non-WASP types need to start showing more appreciation to those who built the place.
ReplyDeletethank you. but there is also a corollary - we (the descendants of such people) have special obligations to the nation and MORE should be EXPECTED of us.
Should ANY person in America receive the same respect and consideration from society as a Mayflower man? I've never met an actual descendant of a Mayflower passenger.
ReplyDeleteI doubt it. The Mayflower passengers have tens of millions of descendants.
The government seems to have blocked visitors coming from your website to comment. I can't get through.
ReplyDelete"As someone who lived in Dearborn, MI for 2 years, I can vouch for this. My guess is that the average anglo might barely accept a Northern Middle Eastern (i.e. Syrian or Lebanese) Arab Christian as "white", and even then they might not be thrilled about letting their daughter marry one. But they would definitely not do the same for the newer arrivals which tend to be more Southern, like Yemenis, Egyptians, etc. The Arabs are in fact almost as diverse as the Hispanics."
ReplyDeleteAgree. But the attitude you describe toward Christian Arabs is not that different than the attitude toward Italian-Americans circa 1970s (when my Sicilian-descended father and WASP mother got married). And Lebanese and Syrian Christians in America are an pretty successful bunch, even more so than Italians or Greeks; they've produced way more than their share of governors, senators, CEOS, generals etc. But there are huge differences between a Lebanese or Syrian Christian and a Yemeni or Egyptian, just like there are huge differences between a Cuban-American of Spanish descent and a Mixtec from Oaxaca.
The group not on Evil Neocon's (whiskey's old screen name) list of elites is the group that provides 60% of Dem donations and 40% of GOP donations while comprising only 3% of the population.
ReplyDeleteArabs are probably left out of affirmative action because their classification would be People of middle east origin." And that would mean Israelis as well. And the anti-semites of the world would come out and say that is wrong.
ReplyDeleteThe bottom line is that affirmative action is a preferential farce, primarily designed to help women.