The Washington Post reports:
Jeremy Lin’s move to Rockets could give team financial windfall from China
By Scott Soshnick, Published: July 17
July 18 (Bloomberg) -- Jeremy Lin’s marketing potential is best cultivated by the Houston Rockets, whose experience with Chinese center Yao Ming has them better positioned and prepared than any other National Basketball Association team to reap a financial windfall from Asia.
There's been much talk that the New York Knicks should have matched the Houston Rockets contract offer for point guard Jeremy Lin just on economic grounds alone. The widespread theory is that it would be easy for the Knicks to continue to profit off Chinese racial pride in Lin. I don't know how true that theory is (here's a post that argues that it's hard for the individual franchise, as opposed to the league, to cash in on overseas racial affinity).
But what strikes me as more interesting is that nobody in the press seems to think that there is anything objectionable about Chinese racial bias in favor of Lin.
Keep in mind that this isn't Chinese nationalism at work. Lin was born in America and his parent are from Taiwan. This is Chinese racialism. Not that there's anything wrong with that!
In contrast, eight years ago the great Larry Bird mentioned in an interview:
"… as we all know, the majority of fans are white America. If you just had a couple of white guys in there [in the NBA], you might get them a little excited."
In response, sportswriters went berserk:
Mike Vaccaro in the New York Post hyperventilated about "logic-challenged hayseeds like Larry Bird espousing his own strange brand of sociology."
Other outlets printed stories entitled "Bird's comments leave us at a loss," "When it comes to race, best to shut up," and "Bird comes off looking like bigot."
One interesting question is whether American whites really would be more interested in the NBA if there were more white stars.
For example, last winter a 21-year-old white rookie had a season fairly similar statistically to the 23-year-old Lin's injury-shortened 2012 season. But, in contrast, it made very little pop culture splash.
Lin played in 35 games, starting 25, while the Spaniard Ricky Rubio of the Minnesota Timberwolves played in 41, starting 31. They are both big (Rubio 6'4", Lin 6'3"), athletic, energetic point guards. Both seemed to greatly improve their teams (the Timberwolves had been an awful 17-65 the previous season), and both went down with season-ending injuries that appeared to badly hurt their teams, perhaps Rubio's even more than Lin's. Moreover, Rubio is a genius at passing (video here).
For each 36 minutes they played, Rubio (who is two years younger than Lin) was a little better than Lin in assists, steals, rebounds, personal fouls, free throw percentage, 3-point percentage, and was a lot better in turnovers. Lin, in contrast, was a lot better at total scoring and 2-point shooting percentage. Rubio is an awful 2-point shooter, while Lin, for a couple of weeks last February, was a lights out 2-point shooter, although he was regressing toward the mean as his season went on. Whether he can keep it up for a career will be an interesting question.
You could argue that the Lin story was just so much more interesting than the Rubio story because Rubio has been famous in European basketball circles since he was 14. (Here's a 2008 highlight video of Rubio's teenage exploits.) On the other hand, a former child prodigy / living legend finally arriving on the big stage ought to be pretty interesting. But outside of hard core NBA fans, nobody in America much cared about Rubio.
I think a couple of things are going on. While nobody has a problem with Chinese rooting for an American-born Taiwanese out of sheer racialism, practically zero American whites will admit even to themselves that they would find it cool to see a foreign white do well in the NBA just because they are white.
On the other hand, white Americans in the Obama Age are slowly, quietly getting a little tired of blacks. So, a Chinese-American "victim of stereotypes" makes an ideal proxy for white fans who are horrified by the thought of themselves being even a little bit racialist (but who, deep down, are). The only thing that could have made Lin more perfect for them is if he were also gay.
I'm sending a break-up text to Black America: "first off, the buffoonery? it's not cute any more..."
ReplyDelete"...white Americans in the Obama Age are slowly, quietly getting a little tired of blacks."
ReplyDeleteSome, perhaps. But as someone who's constantly surrounded by (and related to) liberal white people, the sentiment I get is that they're honestly thrilled to see things getting shaken up. They genuinely look forward to the Age of the Minority Majority.
'...practically zero American whites will admit even to themselves that it would be cool to see a foreign white do well in the NBA just because they are white.'
ReplyDeleteESPN's Skip Bayless said he supported Blake Grifffin because he's half-white. That's the closest I've seen.
Rubio doesn't have the "All-American" look like Jason Williams had that largely northern European descended white male sports fan would more immediately and strongly identify with. Rubio is pretty swarthy and looks like he could be Middle Eastern.
ReplyDelete"… as we all know, the majority of fans are white America. If you just had a couple of white guys in there [in the NBA], you might get them a little excited."
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, white Americans in the Obama Age are slowly, quietly getting a little tired of blacks.
Steve Please, Puh-leease!
The NBA has been black for 50 years now, hockey, white forever; yet LeBrown and company winning the Championship from their home base in a vacation resort, against OKLAHOMA CITY (?) trounced a Stanley Cup final between America's two biggest markets QUADRUPLING the ratings.
Rubio is not popular for the same reason the Klitchko brothers are not popular, they are forigners, plain and simple. They are Americans, they are not even crypto-Americans (Canadians, Brits, South Africans), no, Rubio's a Mess-Kin*, and he plays in Minne-fucking-sota
Sucks for him, sucks for you but, at least he's still rich.
*Generic term for anyone who has a Spanish surname and doesn't look like David Ortiz.
They are both big (Rubio 6'4", Lin 6'3"), athletic, energetic point guards.
ReplyDeleteNeither of them are very athletic. They have size (especially Rubio), energy, and smarts to make up for lack of athleticism though.
Some theorize that NHL ratings slipped as more Eastern Europeans came into the game. Americans may be racialist, but they are even more nationalist. If there's a choice between the two, they will pick nationalism.
ReplyDeleteIn the Chinese mind, Taiwan is China. The mainland Chinese have a very big chip on their shoulder, they view their own race much more negatively than outsiders do, especially in sports. They really love basketball, but their national team stinks. They love soccer, but their team is horrendous. Americans do not like anything they aren't good at.
ESPN's Skip Bayless said he supported Blake Grifffin because he's half-white.
ReplyDeleteThe Australian authors of this article thought Griffin was white:
"Great white hope Griffin knocking down racial stereotypes"
http://tensport.com.au/news/theroar/Basketball-Great-white-hope-Griffin-knocking-down-racial-stereotypes.htm
"The fact is that African-Americans dominate the NBA but the ‘white man can’t jump’ stereotype might finally be blown out of the water at the hands of Blake Griffin.
Griffin came onto the scene last year with dominating play and eye-popping dunks that have racked up millions of hits on YouTube and granted him a Slam Dunk Contest victory and the 2011 Rookie of the Year award. People that didn’t even follow the NBA were watching Blake Griffin, songs were even written him!
As mentioned, Griffin’s hardly the first Caucasian to find success in the NBA, but he has been able to capture fans and non-fans alike in a way that Nash and Nowitzki have been unable do.
His dunks have made him one of the most popular players in the NBA as he enters just his second season. Coupled with the fact Nowitzki just led the Mavericks to a championship and all the hype behind Jimmer Fredette, it seems the NBA is on the right path to abolishing racial stereotypes."
Some theorize that NHL ratings slipped as more Eastern Europeans came into the game. Americans may be racialist, but they are even more nationalist. If there's a choice between the two, they will pick nationalism.
ReplyDeleteThere wasn't really a choice between the two in that case, since the NHL is already basically all-white. The Eastern Europeans weren't making the league more white.
Too many white players are relegated to utility, assistive, or big man roles. When the real path to stardom is to be an offense oriented guard or forward on the wing or top of the key who takes a lot of shots and dominates a lot of possessions. White players are apt to be more team oriented and dump the ball off to demanding black players who demand the ball and possessions (like Carmelo Anthony) even if they don't deserve it or help the team win. There are many black "stars" who rack up stats at the expense of the team's success. They're "stars" because they dominate possessions on the wing and take more shots than warranted. Whites are smarter, less selfish, more team oriented, more honorable, and less whiny/demanding.
ReplyDeletelet's find a gaysian.
ReplyDeleteWhy would hockey ratings be poor in LA? I thought Mexicans loved hockey! Heck Trufth, LA doesn't even have a pro-football team. And the Devils are far from the most popular team in New York. An Original Six NHL final would've drawn much bigger ratings, esp. if not on cable but over the air.
ReplyDeleteIn UK soccer, Manchester United had the Korean Park Ji-Sung (just sold to QPR), Aresenal had Park Chu Yung and the Japanese Riyu Miyaichi.
ReplyDeleteI don't think there's been an ethnic Chinese playing at the top UK level since Sun Ji Hai, who played for Manchester City 2003-8.
UK supporters would sing this to the tune of "Lord of the Dance/Simple Gifts" when they played Manchester United and Park Ji Sung :
"Park, Park, wherever you may be,
They eat dogs in your home country,
But it could be worse, you could be a Scouse,
Eating rats in your council house"
A Scouser of course being a citizen of Liverpool and the butt of many more jokes than a Korean.
Hehe, that's funny about the gay part. Somehow, I don't think that would sell at that well in Shanghai or Taipei, and therefore probably would have precluded the offer from the Rockets.
ReplyDeleteAs for white Americans being interested in a foreign white guy, I'm not so sure. Let's compare it to a Korean NBA player. Chinese might be interested due to the racial aspect, but I don't think they would really *care*.
Despite his Taiwanese birth, Jeremy Lin has all the trappings of the virtuous Confucian gentleman. A good student, filial, humble despite his success, etc. etc. I can almost see him kneeling before the family shrine with joss sticks proclaiming his unwavering obedience to his ancestors (Chinese Christians like Lin still do this -- Chinese hedge their bets).
Also, the Taiwanese (and ABC -- American Born Chinese) thing makes another point that mainland Chinese really like:
It reinforces that ethnic solidarity that is so elusive (read: nigh-on non-existent) in China proper. Overseas Chinese like Lin are unifying symbols of the "Chinese Community" that are sorely lacking in hyper-competitive mainland China.
Lin's appeal to Chinese is partly racial, but mostly cultural (or "ethnic" if you prefer).
By the time they get done buying all the Treasury debt we'll need to sell in the future, the Chinese won't have any money left for frivolous things like basketball. And they have to purchase the debt if they want Americans to continue buying all the crap they make. That goes for the non-crap as well of course, e.g. Olympic Games uniforms etc (which come to think of it I might say are crap -- haven't seen them yet).
ReplyDeleteWhy would hockey ratings be poor in LA?
ReplyDeleteWhen once asked why attendance at Kings' games was generally poor, even though there were, by some estimates, more than half a million Canadians in the greater LA area, Jack Kent Cooke explained it this way: They left Canada because they couldn't stand hockey.
@Steve Sailer
ReplyDelete"One interesting question is whether American whites really would be more interested in the NBA if there were more white stars.
For example, last winter a 21-year-old white rookie had a season fairly similar statistically to the 23-year-old Lin's injury-shortened 2012 season. But, in contrast, it made very little pop culture splash.
Lin played in 35 games, starting 25, while the Spaniard Ricky Rubio of the Minnesota Timberwolves played in 41, starting 31."
Spaniards are not considered by Anglo-Americans to be white - many even think Spain is in Latin America -, so your point is redundant.
I am not saying that your point is incorrect, but it would be more pertinent to your argument to use a player from countries that white Americans do regard unequivocally to be white, such as Germany, Sweden and England. I suspect you are right here - and I seldom think you are right. I do think that a lot of white Americans were more thrilled by Dirk Nowitzki than LeBron James, even though LeBron is American and Nowitzki is not. Race does matter a lot to a lot of people. As far as constucts go, at least race is a real one based on biology, whilst a nation is a completely arbitrary geographical and political construct.
Adding to what Orthodox said, there's a problem with this paragraph:
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind that this isn't Chinese nationalism at work. Lin was born in America and his parent are from Taiwan. This is Chinese racialism.
There's a can of worms! To keep it short there may be no difference between Chinese nationalism and Chinese racialism (which I guess is how it was for most nations not so long ago). Also I think Chinese use "race" for what we call ethnic groups ("the Han race").
So anyway it's not that surprising that Chinese root for a more-or-less Chinese guy (by race, parent culture, etc.). More remarkable would be if it was ok for Chinese-Americans to root for Lin. But of course that would be expected too. More pertinent would be if other Asian-Americans (non-Chinese) rooted for Lin and that was ok. But that would be ok too because minorities are ok, it's just majorities that are scary.
I'll admit to having a tendency to root for people who are more like me in sports, but obviously race is just one measure of similarity. For example, I'm not Chinese, but Lin is a nerd, which has appeal for me (and many people these days it seems). If I was a devout Christian he might appeal to me for that, too.
"The NBA has been black for 50 years now, hockey, white forever; yet LeBrown and company winning the Championship from their home base in a vacation resort, against OKLAHOMA CITY (?) trounced a Stanley Cup final between America's two biggest markets QUADRUPLING the ratings."
ReplyDeleteHockey is too flawed as a sport too ever become popular. It's actually more of an albatross, than a bonus that whites play this almost exclusively.
Puck is hard to see. Goal is too small relative to size of goalie. Most of the time you can't see the puck enter the goal. Then there is the fundamental flaw that it is a violent game played on ice which gives a low-brow cartoonish quality. Buffoons-on-ice feel. Above all, most of USA can't play this sport due simple climate limitation, plus the very unfortunate fact that it is Canada's national sport. Just a wretched sport.
That basketball compares much favorable to hockey means nothing.
I like the Jeremy Lin story because its fun seeing black NBA players being whacked with the diversity stick. Many of them are really pissed off that he's getting all this media attention, an that's humerous.
ReplyDeleteRicky Rubio doesn't excite anyone because he is from Europe (Spain). Dirk Nowitski is not a big star either for the same reason. White AMERICANS would be excited if a white AMERICAN were as good as LeBron or Wade. Rubio does not work as an example. Kevin Love maybe. But certainly not Rubio.
ReplyDeleteI think a couple of things are going on.
ReplyDeleteSteve, you can't pontificate about the NBA without acknowledging the colossal travesty in ethics which is perpetrated by the Scots-Irish in the front office and by the negroes on the court.
The Scots-Irish [being the themselves Presbyterian legalists] have [what some cynics might argue is an almost Darwinian] disdain for the very idea of the rule of law, and the negroes on the court are [not to get too Darwinian again] basically naturally born criminals, and between the two of them you've got an almost perfect storm of contempt for the idea that anyone might want to read the rules in the [ostensible] rulebook, much less make any pretense of actually trying to live by those rules.
You want American whites to return as viewers on television and as fans in the arenas?
Whistle Lebron for travelling when he takes four gigantic steps, without dribbling, on his way to dunking the ball.
Whistle Chris Paul for palming pretty much every single dadgum time he "dribbles" the ball.
Whistle Dwight Howard for travelling every time he shuffles his feet on his way to making "a move" near the basket.
And whistle EVERY dadgum negro who elbows a white player, pulls a white player's hair, bites a white player's arm, kicks a white player in the gonads, punches a white player in the Adam's Apple, etc etc etc.
But as long as the Scots-Irish are running the show, and the negroes are providing the muscle, the NBA isn't a damn bit different than Wall Street or the SCOTUS or WIC/AFDC/Section8/SSDI/Obamacare or any other utterly disfunctional aspect of our society.
The Australian authors of this article thought Griffin was white...
ReplyDeleteIn fairness to the Griffin family, his white mother HOME-SCHOOLED him, and it looks like his black father actually hung around, and, well, FATHERED him.
Which is to say: They're probably some pretty good peeps.
I think alot of whites wouldn't identify with Rubio. His name and appearance suggest hispanic. Alot of whites especially those living in larger cities brushing elbows with Hispanics all day long, probably mentally distinguish between the two.
ReplyDeleteI think Steve's point is spot on- Linsanity was not driven by asians but by white Knick fans
ReplyDelete"In the Chinese mind, Taiwan is China. The mainland Chinese have a very big chip on their shoulder, they view their own race much more negatively than outsiders do, especially in sports"
ReplyDelete- They view Taiwan as something stolen from them; they tend to take a negative view of Taiwanese when the issue arises.
Its definitely not true to say they view their own race more negatively than do outsiders, they are actually very racist. They have a much more positive view of Chinese than do outsiders, as they exaggerate the positives and ignore their own role in the negatives about the Chinese and their history. The Chicoms spoonfeed it to them to pump up their nationalism.
Jeremy's old friends at the Chinese Church in Christ in Mountain View would probably look askance at gayness.
ReplyDeleteTom Chambers had that classic White American look. Was he wildly popular?
ReplyDeleteI'll admit to having a tendency to root for people who are more like me in sports, but obviously race is just one measure of similarity. For example, I'm not Chinese, but Lin is a nerd, which has appeal for me (and many people these days it seems). If I was a devout Christian he might appeal to me for that, too.
I've always had this tendency too, and naively assumed everyone shared it. It was only when I jumped on usenet in the mid-90s that I started to become aware just deep the self-loathing pro-otherism ran in whites. (I just never realized how far it went. You people are finished, you really are. It's embarrassing what pushovers you have been, seriously.)
I like ideological/cultural similarity in addition to racial too, though, not just racial. I saw soccer star Kaka (bigtime racial likeness) giving an interview once in which he was explaining how important christianity was to him. I thought that's nice, I'm not much of a believing christian but it's nice to hear celebrities support it, and at least he didn't talk about his plan to 'save Africa.'
"The only thing that could have made Lin more perfect for them is if he were also gay."
ReplyDeleteAnd also if he weren't Christian
Whites are like the uncle who lets his nephew win at HORSE. "Hey congratulations sport! You're too tough for me!" Whites are such pricks.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure more whites would increase white interest in the NBA.
ReplyDeleteLook at college teams that are often quite white and they do not enjoy more support than you'd expect. Duke has to be the most hated team in college basketball but it routinely has twice as many white guys as any other top program. (Plus, none of its black and mixed-race guys are even remotely thuggish.)
If basketball fans were looking for a whiter and uprighter NBA, Duke would be wildly popular.
Rubio plays in Minnesota,
ReplyDeleteLin plays in Madison Square Garden.
Also, I recall there was a white quasi-American who was a really big deal a few years ago: Steve Nash.
Both of iSteve's guesses as to what accounts for Linnsanity seem plausible, though as the commenter known as "Power Child" notes, white liberals still seem to get thrills up their legs over the idea of blacks sticking it to white America.
ReplyDeleteOlder white liberals, in particular, seem to think that it's perpetually 1962, that blacks have the ultimate moral authority (like MLK and Morgan Freeman), and that non-liberal whites are just like the old segregationists who set off bombs in Birmingham, AL, and who lined up to jeer at the black students as they were being integrated into white schools in Little Rock, AR.
It's as if they think that being old white liberals makes them like the Freedom Riders from the Civil Rights Era, even if only by extension.
As for Ricky Rubio, his exploits in Minnesota may not have garnered much national interest, but does anybody believe he wouldn't have been a big deal if he'd been playing in New York for the Knicks?
Rubio would have been hyped up by the media if he'd been in New York. Fashionable white liberal Knicks fans would have embraced him, regardless of his lack of "diversity" (they would have embraced Steve Nash too, if he'd landed on the Knicks instead of on the Lakers).
Amongst NBA players I would guess that Rubio is far more respected than Jeremy Lin.
ReplyDeleteRubio cam from the European game, which has some significant differences from the NBA. He's not done adjusting yet.
And BTW, neither Rubio nor Lin are particularly "athletic". They both have excellent basketball skill but when you're 6-4 and can barely dunk that doesn't qualify you as athletic in the NBA.
And yes, Truth is also correct that Rubio gets less press because he plays in a small market.
Even white racists care about more than just skin color. Mentioning Bird makes the point. Whites loved watching him play not just because he looked like us, but he also talked and walked and even played like us. The guy was 6'10" and could dunk the ball with ease, but he did it so rarely that some people thought he couldn't because -- say it with me -- White Men Can't Jump. A 5'10" white kid could work on his jumper and his passing skills and dream of being the next Larry Bird -- assuming a major growth spurt before graduation. Bird was White American right down to his hick accent and a hometown that made Mayberry look European in its sophistication.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Bird wasn't just a star; he was (according to nearly all his peers at the time) the best player to ever play the game. There were other great white players in the league, and the black players weren't a bunch of thugs. When Dennis Rodman turned into "Dennis Rodman" and got all tatted up and insane, he was an anomaly. Now he'd fit right in. Bird's nemesis, Magic Johnson, was actually another small-town, Midwestern kid. Dominique, Isaiah, Kareem, Barkley, Olajuwon, Malone, Ewing -- maybe not perfect guys, but I don't remember any of them ever shooting anyone or having to settle a rape case. On the court, the biggest thugs I remember from the 80s were white guys: Laimbeer and Rambis.
So it'd take more than a white American star or three to bring back middle-class white fans. You'd have to change the whole league and get rid of the thuggishness on and off the court. No one can do that for fear of being called raciss, so the NBA isn't coming back.
"... and all the hype behind Jimmer Fredette, it seems the NBA is on the right path to abolishing racial stereotypes."
ReplyDeleteUhhhh, would you believe....
"And whistle EVERY dadgum negro who elbows a white player, pulls a white player's hair, bites a white player's arm, kicks a white player in the gonads, punches a white player in the Adam's Apple, etc etc etc."
ReplyDeleteHow about just if a negro plays defense on one and doesn't let him take wide open shots?
I live in NYC and my girlfriend is Chinese. She never cared two bits about basketball, but then Lin came around. I asked her if she was a Knicks fan now. Her response: "Of course. Gotta support the community."
ReplyDeleteInteresting to note that Rubio is Spanish. As a soccer player, I've always felt that basketball point guards possessed the skills that would translate best to soccer. It's extremely difficult to beat multiple defenders in soccer (you can't plant your feet to cut and dribble simultaneously.) The emphasis switches from individual agility, like a running back, to spatial awareness and passing combinations. Chris Paul, Magic Johnson, Steve Nash would all make great midfielders (I think I've read that Nash's brother is a pro soccer player.) Rubio seems to have done this in reverse, taking a soccer player's skills to the basketball court. Rubio's predilection to bounce the ball through opponents' legs is likely taken from soccer. Dribbling through someone's legs, aka a "nutmeg," is an audacious move in soccer and is embarrassing for a defender.
I have long suspected that there are racial differences in spatial problem solving that explain the disproportionate number of white point guards, quarterbacks, and soccer players.
http://blog.axonpotential.com/elite-soccer-players-brains-excel-at-planning-and-problem-solving/
Dennis Dale said...
ReplyDelete"I'm sending a break-up text to Black America: "first off, the buffoonery? it's not cute any more..."
My break-up letter will begin: "first off, it's not you, it's me. Well, maybe it is you . . ."
OklahomaRichard
The way Rubio passes the ball reminds me of the way Spain passes in Soccer.
ReplyDeleteBTW, Rubio means "blond" in Spanish, so his translated name is Richard Blond or Richard Blondie.
Is there actually evidence of Asians being impressed with Lin? I thought it was more a Harvard thing plus like Magic Johnson he was clean cut.
ReplyDeleteThe Australian authors of this article thought Griffin was white
ReplyDeleteI don't think Australians are really into basketball. They probably just saw some highlight reels of Griffin where the camera is at a distance and he's noticeably light-skinned.
I don't think Lin is very popular among white and black fans. They think he's overhyped and overrated. It's really white commentators and sports journalists that seem to be into him and driving the hype.
ReplyDeleteRubio has the Vlade Divac problem. To many ignorant Americans, he looks like he could be a terrorist or something. It's like that scene in Borat at the rodeo where the American tells Borat to "shave that daggone mustache off so you're not so conspicuous, so you look like maybe an 'eye-talian', or something"
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuKsyjTz3EU
Spaniards are not considered by Anglo-Americans to be white
ReplyDeleteThen either you or "Anglo-Americans" are very foolish. I'm betting it's you.
Steve is overthinking this one, as some of the commentators have already pointed out.
ReplyDeleteIt makes an obvious difference that Lin played in New York and that Rubio played in Minneapolis.
Also, Chinese have a somewhat different conception of race vs. nation than I'm sure Steve does.
The points that there are other reasons why whites don't watch professional basketball and blacks are not that interested in professional hockey, than the racial composition of the players, are well taken. Actually, African-American dominance on the basketball court might be what is keeping interest in the NBA alive. Its just not a very good product at the moment; no reason to watch three quarters of the games, and the rules are enforced too inconsistently (and there is evidence that this is at least in part due to the games being fixed!).
Incidentally, the Knicks used to be one of the NBA's marquee franchises but are being destroyed by a legendarily bad ownership, seriously Steinbrenner's mismanagement of the Yankees in the 1980s now looks better. So some of the interest in Lin was whether he could somehow save the franchise. Obviously not.
As far as constucts go, at least race is a real one based on biology, whilst a nation is a completely arbitrary geographical and political construct
ReplyDeleteA nation is not a "completely arbitrary geographical and political construct". A nation is the political manifestation of a particular group of people.
Using your definition, you might just as well describe the Austro-Hungarian Empire, or the modern US, as a "nation". And they were/are not.
Yeah but people are pretty excited about Kevin Love. Rubio is seen as foreigner. If he were and American he would much more popular.
ReplyDeleteBTW Rubio is the first foreigner who plays basketball well rather than just being huge or a long range shooting specialist.
Also Gordon Hayworth is more popular than a black American with he credentials would be.
ReplyDeleteThe Ghost of Red Auerbach said...
ReplyDeleteI like the Jeremy Lin story because its fun seeing black NBA players being whacked with the diversity stick. Many of them are really pissed off that he's getting all this media attention, an that's humerous.
Ha ha! Agreed. This was a case where the hype-machine actually took off of its own accord and got away from the Thought-Controllers. Nobody in charge wanted this. But it's still "ok" because as many have said, you're allowed to be proud if you're a Chinaman.
Whites cannot overtly root for a white player based on whiteness. This is thoroughly understood by everyone older than about six or seven.
NBA finals ratings in general are WAY down from the 1980s. Granted this is post-Jordan (more proof of how racist white people are: not a single white person bought a Jordan shirt), but the overall decline in interest may very well be from negro fatigue. In a consumer sampling of one person -- me -- I can say that negro fatigue certainly has played a part in my overall much diminished interest in all major sports. Basketball in particular got thugged up and I find it more or less insufferable now, both in style of play (much blacker) and in the deviant appearance of the participants.
There are a fair number of white stars in the NBA, but American fans don't really see it on a racial basis. How many Americans have even heard of Kevin Love, a white American who is one of the top ten and maybe even top five players in the NBA? Dirk Nowtizki won the NBA championship for the Mavs last year. And people have already pointed out Ricky Rubio. Basketball is an American game, not a ghetto game, and isteve commenters are a lot more racist than the American people in general, is what it comes down to.
ReplyDeleteTwo million British South Africans produce Steve Nash. Does America produce any white players like Nash?
ReplyDeleteIn the last ten years who are the top ten white American players? Who are the top ten non-American white players?
My high school, in the sixties, was 99 percent white with an all white team. We, well they, won multiple state championships at the highest level in Oklahoma against integrated competition. Do coaches refuse to use white talent now?
Who is responsible for white talent not reaching the top?
goatweed
I think the average American can relate better to Lin than to the average NBA player which accounts for a lot of his popularity (I do believe Chinese fan support is a bit overemphasized compared to the reality). He comes from a two-parent household, went to college and got a degree, and as of today he has never been to jail or been arrested (unlike some of his former NYK teammates).
ReplyDeleteSteve, I've blogged on this (Blackness and NBA numbers). By comparison with the NFL, the NBA leaves around $3 billion in TV contract money (the old deals that expired) without any real White stars. The NFL LOVES LOVES LOVES pushing thug Ray Lewis, but the real fanbase responds to affable White jocks: Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees, etc.
ReplyDeletePower Child is quite correct, liberal Whites cannot wait to see themselves as the White overlords of Brazil (never happen, US Blacks/Hispanics are not content to live like Brazilians, and want money!)
Look at College Basketball -- outside the Tourney top teams play to mostly empty arenas. That's the cost of 100% Blackness.
I would argue that the White sports fanbase is fragmented, towards NASCAR, other racing, Hockey, Golf, WWE, Ultimate Fighting/MMA, and other sports.
Above all, most of USA can't play this sport due simple climate limitation, plus the very unfortunate fact that it is Canada's national sport.
ReplyDeleteNo, but they have (had?) the money to hire all those greedy Canucks to play hockey for them.
Who is responsible for white talent not reaching the top?
ReplyDeleteFirst off, Nash is a terrific player but horribly overrated. If it's true that foreign white players outperform American white players (and I don't know--life is too short to follow sports) then it's likely because these players don't have to compete with the best American players through the developmental stage--also I think Sailer has pointed out before racial differences in maturation (blacks earliest, then whites, then asians) means blacks have the added advantage of peaking physically earlier.
But this business of trying to downplay black physical superiority is beneath the noble "realist" ethos of Sailer-ville. Knock it off. Or are you looking to counter the prevailing conventional lie (blacks are intellectually equal to whites and physically superior) with your own (whites are physically equal to blacks and intellectually superior)?
"HBD", it it's to have any integrity, has implications you cannot and should not try to obscure. Sometimes I think people here are intent on replacing one fallacious (appeal to consequences) myth with another more appealing.
Whites cannot overtly root for a white player based on whiteness. This is thoroughly understood by everyone older than about six or seven.
ReplyDeleteThe hell they can't - I and everyone I know will be rooting like crazy for IU next season, in the hopes that Cody Zeller can lead them to glory [corruption of the rulebook notwithstanding].
***************
***************
***************
Basketball is an American game, not a ghetto game
No, as I indicated above, basketball is now a SCOTS-IRISH-negro game, with no sense of adherence to any underlying set of rules.
***************
***************
***************
Who is responsible for white talent not reaching the top?
This question has been beaten to death here at iSteve: Bottom line, it is no longer safe for pubescent white boys [ages 12, 13, 14, etc] to play alongside blacks who are of the same calendar age, but who are years ahead of them in terms of physical development and violent aggressiveness.
Compare this video.
Brief replies:
ReplyDeleteTo DPG: Steve Nash's younger brother Martin wasn't just "a pro soccer player"; he also was a regular on the Canada national team for more than a decade. Martin has since retired, and is now on the coaching staff of the Vancouver Whitecaps in MLS.
To Jim Oliver: Gordon Hayward, not Hayworth.
Are you serious? Until his injury, Rubio was in contention for rookie of the year. There was a lot of excitement for hi even before his entry into the NBA.
ReplyDeleteWhite racialist sentiment has largely moved on since Bird retired and the game became dominated by black scorers with Jordan in the 90s. It's moved on to things like MMA and has driven a lot of the meteoric rise in MMA's popularity. In MMA, white fans can watch white fighters excel and beat up black and Hispanic fighters. Fedor Emelianenko was a Russian fighter who was a dominant champion and was very popular among American whites.
ReplyDelete"they, won multiple state championships at the highest level in Oklahoma against integrated competition. Do coaches refuse to use white talent now? Who is responsible for white talent not reaching the top?"
ReplyDeleteYes, the problem is integration. Blacks reach puberty, on average, 1.5-2.0 years earlier than Whites. Obviously, early maturation directly affects playing time in high school.
My analogy explaining the effect of integration is this: BYU football.
BYU football produces a top 20 team year in and year out by drawing on a White population base of about 5 million Mormons.
The state of Florida has a population base of over 14 million Whites. Thus, the state of Florida should be able to produce 2 BYU-calliber football teams of White players.
So, where are those White players? In "Whitopia" Utah, they are starting for various high school teams. In Florida, they are buried by age-level competition with early maturing Blacks. I wrote about this on my blog here
I'd like to see more Armenians in the NBA - but few Armenians have the right build.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, Nash is a terrific player but horribly overrated. If it's true that foreign white players outperform American white players (and I don't know--life is too short to follow sports) then it's likely because these players don't have to compete with the best American players through the developmental stage
ReplyDeleteIn Nash's case, he played HS ball in Canada and then college ball at a small program. He might not have had the chance to shine and develop up to NBA caliber level if he was in stronger programs at the HS/College level.
Uhhhh, would you believe....
ReplyDeleteApparently not enough of it - he can't play.
Aaron B said “Magic Johnson, was actually another small-town, Midwestern kid.” Sure he was…if you consider Lansing, Michigan’s capital to be a small-town.
ReplyDeleteTruth said:
<<"And whistle EVERY dadgum negro who elbows a white player, pulls a white player's hair, bites a white player's arm, etc etc etc.">>
That would be great, but not what he/she was talking about. Any hard foul by a white on a black will be met with a shove at the least. Kobe Bryant has been in only a few fights in his career. All with whites. He's usually above the ghetto horses**t of half the league but he's keepin' it real there...can't have a white boy fouling him and blocking a shot. The worst thing in the world that can happen to a black is to be “dissed” by a white. It’s worse than death.
Finally, not sure who said it “one difference between Kevin Love and Lin is…”. I’ll give you a second difference: Kevin Love is an extremely good player, top 10 in the league. Lin isn’t. Among other things he’d struggle to guard a random fan selected out of the stands.
Jeremy Lin was followed for years on East Asian blogs before he entered the NBA. The fanbase was already there for him.
ReplyDeleteIn MMA, white fans can watch white fighters excel and beat up black and Hispanic fighters.
ReplyDeleteThe thing about MMA-style fights is that it requires a large degree of smarts. Probably not super g-loaded but still plenty. Much more so than, say, boxing. A typical high level fight is like solving a puzzle - many, many possibilities and weighting them in a very short time is very tricky.
So, is Ricky Rubio "White" or "Hispanic"?
ReplyDelete"It makes an obvious difference that Lin played in New York and that Rubio played in Minneapolis."
ReplyDeleteSome difference, but I'm not convinced that makes as much difference in the ESPN era as in, say, 1970. Kevin Durant gets tons of publicity playing in Oklahoma City of all places. What really hurts is playing in the Pacific time zone so your home games don't make SportsCenter before the bulk of the population in East and Midwest time zones has gone to bed.
Rubio or Lin like stats aren't that unusual for white players. Whereas for Lin, it's much more unusual and uncommon, and for all we know he's the first and last Asian (non 7 foot freak like Yao Ming) who will ever put up numbers like that.
ReplyDeleteThat begs an interesting question when do most people watch sportscenter? Do many people really watch the 12 ET version. I always figured most people watched it in the morning getting ready.
ReplyDelete"To Jim Oliver: Gordon Hayward, not Hayworth."
ReplyDeleteYup Jim, quite popular! (just kiddin' with ya, champ.)
"The NFL LOVES LOVES LOVES pushing thug Ray Lewis, but the real fanbase responds to affable White jocks: Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees, etc."
Oh, so that's what these billionaire businessmen do, "push" a guy no one is a fan of.
"BYU football produces a top 20 team year in and year out by drawing on a White population base of about 5 million Mormons.
The state of Florida has a population base of over 14 million Whites. Thus, the state of Florida should be able to produce 2 BYU-calliber football teams of White players.
Yeah, I think that even Lavelle Edwards would tell you that the reason WHY BYU has a top 20 football team every year, is that they ain't playin' Florida.
"Uhhhh, would you believe....
ReplyDeleteApparently not enough of it - he can't play."
I meant that to be Maxwell Smart for those of you old enough, but it's hard to get that across in print.
"Some difference, but I'm not convinced that makes as much difference in the ESPN era as in, say, 1970."
ReplyDeleteYeah Steve; Tiki Barber went from the Giants backfield to HOSTING THE FREAKIN' TODAY SHOW. Michael Strahan is one of the THREE FINALISTS TO PERMANENTLY CO-HOST "LIVE" WITH KELLY RIPA. Even the Giants PLACEKICKER got a show on CNBC I believe.
If they played in Kansas City, I just can't see it. I think Strahan is a marginally charismatic guy, but Tiki just reminded me of any brother who worked for UPS, and it took the Today show producers a year or so to figure that out.
The state of Florida has a population base of over 14 million Whites. Thus, the state of Florida should be able to produce 2 BYU-calliber football teams of White players.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think that even Lavelle Edwards would tell you that the reason WHY BYU has a top 20 football team every year, is that they ain't playin' Florida.
If sports were segregated starting at the earliest age, and all-black and all-white teams would play against each other as adults, there's no question that the white teams would dominate in football, basketball, etc. And if the black teams didn't have access to white coaching, white training, white nutrition, etc., it wouldn't even be close. They'd be blowouts.
The whole Jeremy Lin deal is amusing. Leftists don't seem to get that yes, winning was more important than selling jerseys to Asians.
ReplyDeleteAlso, ESPN is filled with hypocrites. They used cold-basketball logic to sell Lebron "Primadonna" James, but the same logic doesn't apply to Lin because....?
People complain that the NBA looks too much like the WWE. Well, that's what their dumbass fanbase wants.
Honestly, reading these comments you can understand why the Jews think gentiles are "goyim". Typical White American. Yeah, who gives it gives a damn about Money, politics, or reading all them there books... as long as we can put a basketball in a hoop better than anyone else, everything's OK.
ReplyDeleteNBA basketball is a game of freaks. Bird wasn't a great player because of his speed or shooting ability, he was great because he was Freakishly tall (6'9) and could shoot well and chew gum at the same time.
BTW Rubio is the first foreigner who plays basketball well rather than just being huge or a long range shooting specialist.
ReplyDeleteDirk, Duncan, Nash, Ginobili, Parker, Olajuwon. And that's just the Texas triangle.
Have to agree w/ Truth on this one-- it seems, if anything, ESPN's bias in favor of the large, sexy markets has increased over the last 10-20 years.
ReplyDeleteIt's probably not just about population numbers, but marketing appeal-- intertwined with hip-hop's conception of glamour.
NFL isn't as bad as NBA in this respect-- a small market team like Green Bay is still considered cool.
NBA basketball is a game of freaks. Bird wasn't a great player because of his speed or shooting ability, he was great because he was Freakishly tall (6'9) and could shoot well and chew gum at the same time.
ReplyDelete6'9" isn't "freakishly tall" in the NBA.
Bird was great because he was athletic, versatile, smart, tough, and extremely skilled.
"If sports were segregated starting at the earliest age, and all-black and all-white teams would play against each other as adults, there's no question that the white teams would dominate in football, basketball, etc. And if the black teams didn't have access to white coaching, white training, white nutrition, etc., it wouldn't even be close. They'd be blowouts."
ReplyDeleteAnd what if cherry flavored gumdrops fell from the sky?
"Rubio or Lin like stats aren't that unusual for white players. Whereas for Lin, it's much more unusual and uncommon, and for all we know he's the first and last Asian (non 7 foot freak like Yao Ming) who will ever put up numbers like that."
ReplyDeleteDunno about Lin necessarily being the last Asian. I don't think he's a freak occurrence, as much as evidence of the benefits to build and stature brought by a Western diet and regular consumption of red meat. Successive generations of overseas Chinese in the West are all taller than their parents, and most of my cousins who were born in the late 80's/early 90's are at least six foot in height (all of southern Chinese descent).
BYU is successful because of the passing game and quite a few gigantic Samoans.
ReplyDeleteThe original hoops dynasty played in front of a 3/4 full Boston Garden while they were winning all those championships in the 60s. Did the fact that they were the first team to start 5 blacks and have a black coach have anything to do with it? Meanwhile, the marginally-successful Boston Bruins were playing in front of sellout crowds, though having the greatest player that ever skated may have had something to do with that.
Bird .. was Freakishly tall (6'9)
ReplyDeleteAccording to ex-NBA'er Tom Tolbert, on radio just the other day, Bird was actually almost
6'10".
BYU is successful because of the passing game and quite a few gigantic Samoans.
ReplyDeleteAre you sure those Samoans weren't fat Finns with heavy suntans?
It's simple:
ReplyDelete1. Madison Square Garden is the center of the sports media world.
2. Asian-American star athletes are almost non-existent in the media, so when one appears, it is much more man-bites-dog than when a white athlete appears. Who's the most famous 100% Asian-American athlete in any sport? Apollo Ohno, Hines Ward, Tiger Woods are all half-Asian. Yao-ming and Ichiro are foreign-born. I'd say perhaps Michael Chang, but men's tennis is not the most watched sport in America and his lone Grand Slam title was 23 years ago.
There may not be any American-born basketball players who are popular but there are hundreds of white American baseball and football players (not to mention Nascar, golf, tennis, college basketball, college football, MMA, etc) to root for.
Add to that the Harvard connection and you have a real story.
Anonymous posted:
ReplyDelete"This question has been beaten to death here at iSteve: Bottom line, it is no longer safe for pubescent white boys [ages 12, 13, 14, etc] to play alongside blacks who are of the same calendar age, but who are years ahead of them in terms of physical development and violent aggressiveness."
That is true but there is more to it. In order to get better at a skill you have to practice it. Try playing a pickup game with a bunch of blacks and see how often you get to touch the ball if you're a white guy. They are either are unwilling or incapable of passing to a white guy even if the white player is one of the best players on the floor. They'd rather sling up bad shots and get beat than pass to a white. Why would white kids want to be verbally and sometimes physically abused to watch the brothers carry the ball and take wild shots? The only time the white guy gets the ball and a shot opportunity is on an offensive rebound. Even then you'll have some idiot yelling "gimme the ball, gimme the ball" at you.
Ummm, Steve, the NBA's TV ratings trounce the NHL's ratings. Hell, 7:30am English soccer games on ESPN are even with 7:00pm NHL on NBC games. And the NBA's post-lockout ratings were the highest in years for both TNT and ESPN.
ReplyDeleteI like Lin because he is a gentleman in a league full of thugs.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what effect seeing a white guy (Christophe Lemaitre) taking on the usual field of west African-descended runners in the Olympic 100m final might have on white (non-French) spectators. I suspect that many will find themselves instinctively rooting for him, and then start questioning why. Could be an interesting little milestone in white HBD awareness.
ReplyDelete