A reader writes:
Romney has gotten a lot of grief over the campaign season because he is a rich politician. Although he comes from a minority religion, Mormonism is the wrong one to be born into. He should have been Jewish.
If Romney was Jewish many of the attack lines would not be aired in public because of the anti-semitic backlash it would engender. Making rich guy jokes would be verboten as it would harken back to old Jewish stereotypes. Romney's hawkish stance on the Middle East would be understandable. His deep religious roots would be accepted. Comedians would have a heart attack as they would be unable to mock a black guy or a Jew.
I predict that Romney would be leading in the polls by a decent amount--4-5 points--if he were only a Jew.
Interesting theory. I would think that liberal Jewish comedians like Jon Stewart would feel free to tee off on a Jewish Republican candidate, but, yes, probably attacks on him as a financial wheeler-dealer would be toned way, way down.
For example, nobody objects to the title of David Brooks' current column "Thurston Howell Romney" as an anti-WASP ethnic stereotype, even though it is. (Thurston Howell III was the Newport yachtsman on Gilligan's Island.) Instead, many in the media are competing today to take credit for being the first to call Romney "Thurston Howell." But any stereotypes involving Wall Street, investing, or moneylending would be very, very dicey if the candidate were Jewish, even if he were Republican.
What about foreign policy? The current state of the art dog-whistling from Maureen Dowd is that Romney and Ryan are goyishe kops being led around on foreign policy by neocons. Modo's larger subliminal message to her fellow Democrats and to Republicans is something like, "Our Jews are less crazy than your Jews." She may have a point ...
How would all that work if Eric Cantor were the Republican nominee in 2016? Would the Democrats say, "Oh, you're just biased on Israel because you're Jewish." I mean, I'd like to imagine Hillary saying that to Cantor in a 2016 Presidential debate in that super-patronizing tone of voice she can pull up, but, no, I don't see it happening. Hillary saying that would seem like a positive development in our political culture -- being able to point out the bleeding obvious -- but, because it would be a good thing, I have a hard time imagining it happening here in the land of the free and the home of the brave.
What about foreign policy? The current state of the art dog-whistling from Maureen Dowd is that Romney and Ryan are goyishe kops being led around on foreign policy by neocons. Modo's larger subliminal message to her fellow Democrats and to Republicans is something like, "Our Jews are less crazy than your Jews." She may have a point ...
How would all that work if Eric Cantor were the Republican nominee in 2016? Would the Democrats say, "Oh, you're just biased on Israel because you're Jewish." I mean, I'd like to imagine Hillary saying that to Cantor in a 2016 Presidential debate in that super-patronizing tone of voice she can pull up, but, no, I don't see it happening. Hillary saying that would seem like a positive development in our political culture -- being able to point out the bleeding obvious -- but, because it would be a good thing, I have a hard time imagining it happening here in the land of the free and the home of the brave.
The Republicans think they need a Hispanic candidate in 2016 like Marco Rubio. But, maybe what they really need is somebody like his old boss, who helped him get launched, Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. She's Hispanic and Protestant. Her mom was Catholic. Her grandparents were Jewish. Maybe she could have a child convert to Islam! A grandchild could get into Santa Muerte ...
Here's a prediction, if Romney loses, you'll start reading columns about how what the GOP must do is beg NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg to switch back to Republican and graciously accept the 2016 nomination. Tom Friedman probably already has this column penciled in for November 10, 2012.
Here's a prediction, if Romney loses, you'll start reading columns about how what the GOP must do is beg NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg to switch back to Republican and graciously accept the 2016 nomination. Tom Friedman probably already has this column penciled in for November 10, 2012.
I never thought of Mr. Howell as dim witted. I always thought he could do a corporate raid before lunch and make a bundle.
ReplyDeleteListen, I am a conservative and I would NEVER, EVER vote for NANNY Bloomberg.
ReplyDeleteWhile Obama thinks of himself as a prince, Bloomberg thinks of himself as KING.
Romney dares bring up the subject of self-reliance and independence and everyone goes crazy. So, he mispoke about 47% not voting for him only because of the income tax issue--so what? Everyone knows what he meant.
ReplyDeleteWhat a piece of work the good ole USA has become--people attacking someone for saying he knew he couldn't get the votes of those with their hands out, those who play the victim card.
You know, Mitt ought to go the whole way and put out some film of himself saying, "I know they'll call me racist because they always call those with whom they disagree rasisssssssst."
Wouldn't that be fun?
There was a GOP Presidential candidate who was 1/4 Jewish and had a Jewish surname.
ReplyDeleteHow did he do?
The Dems had a 4/4 Jewish Veep candidate-he didn't win even though he got more votes than Cheney.
I don't think that in either case references to the candidate's own wealth were mentioned-but they weren't in Mitt's league.
Your reference to Gilligan's Thurston Howell made me ask myself this.
ReplyDeleteWhich man, Obama or Romney, would be most likely to have the brains, the wherewithal, the creativity, ingenuity, whatever the quality is, to help us survive a shipwreck that landed us on an unfriendly island?
"I never thought of Mr. Howell as dim witted."
ReplyDeleteI haven't watched the show since I was 8. Was he more delusional than dimwitted?
Public opinion of Mormons by Jews is the highest of all known religious groups.
ReplyDeleteHere's a prediction, if Romney loses, you'll start reading columns about how what the GOP must do is beg NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg to switch back to Republican and graciously accept the 2016 nomination
ReplyDeleteIf Romney loses, I don't think it will matter who the Republicans nominate in 2016. A failure to unseat a President this bad in an economy this weak would probably result in a lot of people abandoning the party. Certainly, nominating someone like Bloomberg would only hasten the exodus of the Tea Party faction into a full blown third party.
Jim Backus, the actor who played Thurston Howell, depicted a math wiz in an episode of The Untouchables. Here he is being tested by the court to prove his ability to memorize numbers so that he can be cleared to testify about the mob's books which the government has not been able to obtain.
ReplyDelete"Which man, Obama or Romney, would be most likely to have the brains, the wherewithal, the creativity, ingenuity, whatever the quality is, to help us survive a shipwreck that landed us on an unfriendly island?"
ReplyDeleteNeither, next question.
Rev. Right said,
ReplyDelete"If Romney loses, I don't think it will matter who the Republicans nominate in 2016. A failure to unseat a President this bad in an economy this weak would probably result in a lot of people abandoning the party."
On the other thread I said economy was the end-all and be-all, but I forgot best natural leader, which is second. It is my belief that those are the only two traits that matter. Everything else is "story-telling".
The higher up the office, the more determinist the reality.
I agree w/ Rev. Right. Objectively, we can say that Mitt Romney is a natural leader, so we can check off that box. All that is left is the economy. Unless a miracle happens, I cannot see or seriously entertain Obama winning re-election.
The median age of Americans (voters would be higher of course) in 1992 was just under 33.5 while today it is 36.9. My questions would be how does median age affect view of government's role, particularly in a poor economy.
In any event, we've aged just a few years so I don't anticipate much difference in reaction vis a vis the last recession.
Like all of Brooks's pop references it's flat-footed, in a column w/ the wire title "Romney doesn't understand American culture" no less (though maybe Andrew Rosenthal selected the title anyway). You couldn't say he developed the theme. That Gilligan character was basically a non-British rendition of the chuckling bon vivant lush tycoon type, "Rich Idiot With No Day Job." Media folk were always made uncomfortable by Romney's inclination to be severe and veto stuff and not live up to this fun well-traveled stereotype. The covert tape recording from May had captured a mentality of near-ideological disapprobation, pretty different from a hiccuping twit complaining over the quality of butlers these days. Also if Sailer really fantasizes about crag-faced Hillary Clinton cattily putting down some Jewish guy on TV then he should work on developing more worthwhile fantasies
ReplyDeleteIf he were Jewish, he wouldn't be so dumb.
ReplyDeleteWhat if Romney be black and gay?
ReplyDelete"A failure to unseat a President this bad in an economy this weak would probably result in a lot of people abandoning the party."
ReplyDeleteYou forget, Rev. Right, that no other President has ever been lauded, has ever been protected from his ineffective policies by the media as has this President.
It's a first.
Because you are a Sailer reader, I assume you are a reader, period, one who doesn't rely on network news for all your information.
Most American voters rely on one of the major three networks for their news. If you have watched them these last four years, you would never know that anything Obama has done is his fault and you'd know nothing of his justice department's scandals. You'd also not know, just this week, what's going on in Afghanistan and you just might believe it was a silly little video on the internet that started the MidEast uproar.
I have forced myself to watch network news and a few of the morning shows (and the occasional French kisses and blow jobs 60 Minutes gives Obama) and I no longer have any trouble understanding why it is about half of Americans are going to vote for him.
It's just those awful ole Republicans in the Congress that have blocked Barry's magnificence, they suggest to the viewer. Of course, the viewer ought to be bright enough to conclude, "Well, why, then in the first two years of his term when he had the Congress, didn't he do things that would put the economy on the right track?"
However, Mr. Right, the IQ of many American voters is not all that high. Barry is a celeb. They like that. Jay-Z, Beyonce, Slow Jammin' the News, Letterman, Al Greene....
I think only people over 40 should be able to vote.
Why not have Sheldon Adelson run in 2016 and cut out the middle man?
ReplyDeleteHe'd be a better candidate than Romney.
Risto
"What if Romney were Jewish?"
ReplyDeleteWoulda saved him a trip to Israel.
I've long been wondering what trope/canard/symbol will give the vapors to a WASP such as me in the manner that various stereotypes, images, slips of the tongue, etc, give to just about nearly everyone else in this great land of ours.
ReplyDeleteI'm feeling very deprived in this regard, doesn't seem very fair that I don't have something over which I can work myself into a high dudgeon.
While Obama thinks of himself as a prince, Bloomberg thinks of himself as KING.
ReplyDeleteFran Lebowitz on Bloomberg (starting ~12:15):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu1suQP1vC4&feature=player_detailpage#t=735s
Jews don't seem to want one of their own as a presidential candidate, probably because it would inevitably draw attention to Jewish power. Lieberman was safe as a VP nomination, but then he's practically a hero to conservatives so he wouldn't have been that much of a risk. Still, there was a lot less enthusiasm for Lieberman when he ran for the Democratic nomination.
ReplyDelete"Here's a prediction, if Romney loses, you'll start reading columns about how what the GOP must do is beg NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg to switch back to Republican and graciously accept the 2016 nomination. Tom Friedman probably already has this column penciled in for November 10, 2012."
ReplyDeleteBTW, Steve, that is such a terrible, terrible thought. You must be depressed and in some terrible well to have come up with something that horrible AND then to inflict this upon us, your poor readers?!
"I have forced myself to watch network news and a few of the morning shows (and the occasional French kisses and blow jobs 60 Minutes gives Obama) and I no longer have any trouble understanding why it is about half of Americans are going to vote for him."
ReplyDeleteWell, that's the playing field, isn't it? If it's tilted against you, you'd better be better, you'd better play harder, and you'd better be willing to do what it takes to win.
It also might help to stop accepting skewed rules too, like agreeing to have all of the presidential debates moderated by ardent democrats like PBS's Jim Lehrer; CNN's Candy "some sort of ticket death wish" Crowley; CBS's Bob Schieffer; and ABC's Martha Raddatz. Just a thought.
Remember, John Kerry "discovered" that his father was a Jew who changed his name and converted. Kerry was also Romney-rich (through his wife.)
ReplyDeleteWesley Clark made a similar "discovery."
Didn't help either of them.
Thurston Howell was just insufferably entitled...he would act terrifically insulted if his martinis weren't the right temperature, he and his wife did no work, etc etc.
OK. Romney's in trouble because of this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829?page=3
I've been in the Deep South and noticed that (white) people were reluctant to vote for Romney because of his religion (if you haven't noticed his is not a Christian), but according the polls he will carry those states for the same reasons contemporary Republicans always win them. His professional career wlll have more impact with, well, the states Lincoln carried which probably where people would probably have been open to voting for a member of the out party when unemployment is this high.
And if the Romney's had been Jewish? I don't know, probably George Romney would never have been appointed to head AMC or been elected Governor of Michigan, and Willard would have been a corporate raider but had no ambitions to better/ redeem his father by being elected President?
Were Romney Jewish would the Mormons have to wait until he'd died to baptize him in absentia?
ReplyDeleteMy fantasy Jewish presidential candidate is Benjamin Netanyahu: he'd slam shut our southern border, deport all the Mexodusians, fire all the Moslem Brotherhood moles from the federal government, revoke all building permits for mosques, fire all Moslem judges, get our troops the hell out of Afghanistan within a week, cancel foreign aid to Moslem "Death to America" countries, set the Joint Chiefs straight on sipping tea with treacherous Mohammedans, hang Nidal Hassan, end counter-profitable nation-building, replace the bloated TSA with effective psych-trained airport screener pros, slap a 20-year moratorium on legal immigration, use the navy to take Mahanesque U.S. control of all Gulf oil distribution and pricing, end visas for foreign Moslemms, revoke all those Harvard and Yale "sharia studies" chairs, revoke all p.c. speech codes, tell the OIC to go you-know-what themselves, withdraw us from the UN and force it to move to Riyadh, draft all the Occupy slobs and ghetto trash and put them to work on permanent KP, and generally put the U.S. back in the global driver's seat and drive up worldwide respect and admiration for America.
One facet of the dominant anti-white culture is the pervasively implied idea that only white people are racist.
ReplyDeleteIt ain't neccessarily so.
"I've long been wondering what trope/canard/symbol will give the vapors to a WASP such as me in the manner that various stereotypes, images, slips of the tongue, etc, give to just about nearly everyone else in this great land of ours."
ReplyDeleteLegalization of uncle/niece marriage?
Netanyahu recognizes that he represents a people, which our politicians do not anymore. They represent a congealing of ethnic groups and nationalities in different proportions.
ReplyDeleteNetanyahu also speaks with a directness that shames Romney. Romney's flip flop on immigration -- or illegals -- is unforgiveable.
Obama Jesus drives Romney from the Temple.
ReplyDeleteThurston Howell Romney
Being Jewish (or partly Jewish, as in the cases of Kerry and Clark, mentioned above) hasn't seemed to offer any immunity against criticism at the national level. Eric Cantor, for example, was widely mocked earlier this month for obtusely tweeting that Labor Day was the time to celebrate entrepreneurs.
ReplyDeleteAs for support for Israel, I wouldn't overestimate the current influence of neocons (which appears to be in decline anyway). If they all disappeared tomorrow, there would still be a vast well of support for Israel among the GOP grassroots. Bush 41 defied AIPAC, but it's hard to imagine a GOP president doing that today -- not because AIPAC is any stronger now than it was then but because gentile support of Israel has expanded significantly in the GOP since then.
Someone over the last ten years has worked insanely hard at getting this propaganda line established that there's this massive groundswell of support for the Zionists among heartland conservative voters, and that GOP politicians are scared to death of losing these people if they cross the Israelis even a little. It's rather peculiar then that opinion polls of the political priorities of conservative voters never pick up on this torrent of Judeophilia. It's almost like it doesn't really exist or something...
DeleteIn any case, it's worth pointing out that the American finance industry is vastly wealthier than it was twenty years ago, and that fact may have just a little more to do with the growing strength of the Israel Lobby than some illusory
Christian/Jew lovefest.
Steve Sailer said...
ReplyDelete"I never thought of Mr. Howell as dim witted."
I haven't watched the show since I was 8. Was he more delusional than dimwitted?
Neither, he was a polite but entitled snob who nonetheless went on a boat trip with proles and middle-class people when he could have afforded his own boat. So ultimately he was like the wealthy old uncle of the Gilligan's Island "family" and that modified any class envy/contempt. Ultimately he was one of "us".
Unlike Dr. Smith from Lost in Space who I never trusted.
Anonymous said...
What if Romney be black and gay?
Then he could be a rapper!
Auntie Analogue, you appear to disparage the century-old tradition of Mormon baptism for the dead; are you some closet anti-Mormonist?
ReplyDeleteI would think that liberal Jewish comedians like Jon Stewart would feel free to tee off on a Jewish Republican candidate, but, yes, probably attacks on him as a financial wheeler-dealer would be toned way, way down.
ReplyDeleteJon Stewart mocks multimillionaires though by the time he reaches Romney's age, he is on track to be richer than him.
From the Daily Caller : In January Stewart exploded on-air over Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s income level. “That’s almost — that’s almost $57,000 a day!” he gushed.
But Stewart’s own income level brings him and his wife Tracey approximately $41,000 a day.
Even better, I see that Roz-Lehtinen's child is transgendered according to the Wiki biography.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Lehtinen
Rodrigo Lehtinen (born Amanda Michelle Lehtinen on April 1, 1986, in Miami, Florida) is a Cuban-American, transgender LGBT rights advocate and movie producer. Lehtinen is the eldest child of Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and Dexter Lehtinen and grandchild of Enrique Ros.
Lehtinen is a graduate of Brown University and while attending there he was a member of Queer Alliance. While attending Brown, he produced the documentary "Free within these Walls" about Cuban prisoners of conscience. Lehtinen is an anti-Zionist, even though his grandmother, Amanda Adato, was born a Jew, and his mother Ileana Ros-Lehtinen is a strong supporter of Israel. Presently Lehtinen is the field organizer for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force
On the subject of comedians mocking Romney. David Letterman is considerably richer than Romney but pretends to be an average Joe shocked by Romney's "obscene" wealth.
ReplyDelete---> Anti-Mormon Defamation League:
ReplyDeleteTake my question any way you like, A-MDL. It's a free country.
You have a point there about the hispanic vote but since Republicans are using the Moocher agrument anti-welfare it flies against courting Hispanics that have higher welfare usage in many states compared to whites.
ReplyDelete"Romney dares bring up the subject of self-reliance and independence and everyone goes crazy. So, he mispoke about 47% not voting for him only because of the income tax issue--so what? Everyone knows what he meant.
ReplyDeleteWhat a piece of work the good ole USA has become--people attacking someone for saying he knew he couldn't get the votes of those with their hands out, those who play the victim card.
You know, Mitt ought to go the whole way and put out some film of himself saying, "I know they'll call me racist because they always call those with whom they disagree rasisssssssst."
Wouldn't that be fun?"
-
He's in trouble because he directly insulted 47% of voters, very likely pissing off people on the fence, and your solution is for Romney to turn into a shitty insult comic. You should be his campaign manager. Are you his campaign manager?
You know, I honestly have no idea why Romney even wants to be President. When I see him on TV, I see this guy that's literally had everything handed to him his entire life. He's never had to struggle. He didn't have to work his way up the corporate ladder. He's never been exposed to the daily lives of the 47% of Americans that he so despises. And that's fine, I don't begrudge the privileged class their privileges, but why exactly does he need to be President, other than satisfying his own ego and need for status?
ReplyDelete"It also might help to stop accepting skewed rules too, like agreeing to have all of the presidential debates moderated by ardent democrats like PBS's Jim Lehrer; CNN's Candy "some sort of ticket death wish" Crowley; CBS's Bob Schieffer; and ABC's Martha Raddatz. Just a thought."
ReplyDeleteThis probably doesn't matter as the real sodomizing takes place by the MSM "analysts" over the hours and days after the debates.
Obama could have a case of diarrhea with it oozing down his pant leg and the press would scream, "Wow--look at that guy--what cool he showed in how he handled that."
"He's in trouble because he directly insulted 47% of voters, very likely pissing off people on the fence, and your solution is for Romney to turn into a shitty insult comic."
ReplyDeleteLMAO
"You should be his campaign manager. Are you his campaign manager?"
It's starting to look like he's overqualified.
"You know, I honestly have no idea why Romney even wants to be President. When I see him on TV, I see this guy that's literally had everything handed to him his entire life."
ReplyDeleteWhat b.s. Romney has busted his ass his whole adult life. Imagine being 19 and trying to convince people in wine-loving France to convert to tee-totaling Mormonism. You think that's easy? How about being selected as a Baker Scholar at Harvard Business School, which is restricted to the top 5% of students. No one hands you that.
And no one hands you success in hyper-competitive fields such as private equity. No one hands you victory on a silver platter when you're running as a Republican candidate in liberal Massachusetts.
Rommey is, objectively, one of the smartest and most accomplished candidates for president in years. The crap he's been getting will probably discourage similarly successful and competent men from running in the future, which is unfortunate for the rest of us.
Romney was also, in effect, Mormon bishop of Boston for about a decade. That's not a glamour job: it involves a lot of boring meetings and a lot of dealing with individuals' problems. Mormons have kind of an informal private welfare state, so there is stuff like Mrs. Jones has to have a wheelchair ramp now, but her finances are tight, so how can we help her out? Who knows how to build one? Who can show up to help him? Can we a discount on lumber?
ReplyDeleteReal community organizing.
who rapidly became ex-President Bush. Lesson learned.
ReplyDeleteAre you saying Poppy lost for lack of Adelson-type money? I don't think I've seen that analysis before.
"Real community organizing."
ReplyDeleteThat's a great point, and it highlights one irony of this contest. Romney is caricatured as an out-of-touch Mr. Moneybags, but in reality, he has done more to personally help people in need than Obama. Not just through donating money through his church, but physically helping -- going with his sons to move a single mother's furniture for her, that sort of thing.
The Obama campaign has adopted Bruce Springsteen's song "We Take Care of Our Own", but Mitt Romney and his Mormon church actually do take care of their own. Obama doesn't even take care of Aunt Zeituna, who lives on the taxpayers' dime in public housing.
"Romney has busted his ass his whole adult life. Imagine being 19 and trying to convince people in wine-loving France to convert to tee-totaling Mormonism."
ReplyDeleteHe really is an idiot. He needs to have a beer now and then. An American male who never drank beer?
Un-American.
"We Take Care of Our Own"
ReplyDeleteBy taking away what we own.
The only reason we don't have a Jewish President is because, Jews don't want it.
ReplyDeleteUp to now they've felt having a Jewish President would be too much -too obvious - better to work behind the scenes and make sure both the Repubs and Dems were "Kosher" and surrounded by the "right" advisers, managers, staff members, speech writers, etc.
After all if some Republican has a Jewish speechwriter, Jewish Fed Chairman, a Jewish Campaign head, a Jewish Sec of State or NSA, and a Jewish Chief of Staff, and is willing to wear a kippah at the wailing wall, why do we need a Jewish President?
But I agree a Jewish Romney would be romping home to victory. Its not just the reluctance to attack a Jew - its that all the nutty Southern "Christian Zionists" and Jewish "wannabees" would be streaming to the polls in November. A Jewish Romney would win Florida and Virginia in a landslide.
ReplyDeleteFinally, Pat Robertson would have someone he could support.
Mr. Howell was not dimwitted. He was the "wolf of Wall Street". He was however, lazy and somewhat delusional and not much at doing practical things - like the Skipper and the Professor.
ReplyDeleteThe fact is that most "financial Wizards" would be just as useless on a desert island. Other than playing the market, or getting others to play the market, they aren't much good for anything.
Romney was born into elite status, just like W. Yes, he is ambitious and he's accomplished a lot, but he had major help along the way. I don't think he's a bad guy really, but doors were opened for him that most of the rest of us never even see because we aren't in the same room. We're in the other room, where the normal people are that didn't have fathers that were auto execs and governors.
ReplyDeleteThese comments he made about 47% of Americans that don't pay income taxes are 1) wrong and 2) stupid. The man is completely out of touch with the struggles of ordinary Americans. Median family income nationally is what, $50K with both partners working? But you know, all those lazy people just need to stop being dependent on the government for handouts. They should be self-starters, like Mitt Romney, and you know, just go and get jobs at Bain Capital. Duh.
Oh I know, let's cut taxes some more. That'll fix everything. Sure.
"What b.s. Romney has busted his ass his whole adult life. Imagine being 19 and trying to convince people in wine-loving France to convert to tee-totaling Mormonism. You think that's easy?"
ReplyDeleteLMAO! We have a winner!*
Attn: West Virgina coal miners, wildcat oilfield guys and inner-city cops; you don't know struggles until you've had Mitten's life.
*Davein, you're my boy, but please reassure me this was meant as satire...
Don't forget that outside the "blogosphere" a huge percentage of Americans like smart Jewish people because they know that in a completely un-Jewish America circa 1941-5 each and every one of their relatives who participated in the hostilities of WWII would have had a higher exposure to death via comparatively better engineered technology on the part of our non-Jewish adversaries if Jewish scientists had been on the adversary side and not ours.(Sorry about the long sentence). In fact, my guess is that between one half and one percen of your commenters (who are, in one sense, more a cross section of descendants of WWII vets than a cross section of likely voters)would not have been born absent Jewish-American efforts in WWII, (before you have a Cochran-like hissy fit, remember that this statement does not exclude the objective non-reciprocal appreciation of 99 to 99.5 percent towards the very effective Jews who fought alongside their ancestors) if you don't believe me, ask someone IRL who you consider smart, honest and knowledgable. From that point of view, a Jewish Romney would be slightly ahead of a Mormon Romney.
ReplyDelete"Romney was born into elite status, just like W. Yes, he is ambitious and he's accomplished a lot, but he had major help along the way. I don't think he's a bad guy really, but doors were opened for him that most of the rest of us never even see because we aren't in the same room."
ReplyDeleteThe guy that found Romney's 47% video was born into elite status, the grandson of a US President. And he's unemployed.
Truth,
"Attn: West Virgina coal miners, wildcat oilfield guys and inner-city cops; you don't know struggles until you've had Mitten's life."
If you took any of those guys and made them spend a day pitching Mormonism to Frenchmen door-to-door, or doing the sort of tedious reading, writing, and number crunching required of a Baker Scholar, for a day, they'd beg you to let them go back to their regular jobs. Sales is harder than those jobs. So is homework.
Everybody works harder than cops, inner-city or no. Cops don't work hard, other than the rare occasions they're chasing or bagging some yoof. They sit in their cars and drink coffee and eat donuts most of the time.
ReplyDeleteStress? Sure, I'll buy that. Sweat? Not so much.
Dems win cuz they offer something for everyone.
ReplyDeleteGlobalism for the rich so they can rake it in.
Cultural elitism for the creative so they can feel special.
Big government for the middle class who have government jobs.
Unions for blue collar workers.
GOP offers globalism, but the rich can get it from Democrats. So, all there is left is tax cuts for the rich, but the rich are so rich that they don't care about tax increases.
GOP offers nothing to government workers who make up huge number of electorate.
GOP offers nothing to the working class. It wins over some poor whites by appealing to racial fears and God-and-country rhetoric, but it's wearing thin. But GOP, in its MLK worship, is even losing the 'racist' vote.
The only reason we don't have a Jewish President is because, Jews don't want it.
ReplyDeleteLooking to what happened to DSK in NYC, maybe they don't want one in France too...
Yes Davein; eating croissants and visiting the Louvre on your off day is more difficult than being a coal miner, it's also more difficult than trudging through a rice paddy in 120 degree weather with an M-16 trying to avoid mines, and getting 15 AK bullets in your ass.
ReplyDeleteIt's so much more difficult, that's why Mittens chose to do it, even while speaking out PRO Vietnam war.
BTW, D.;
ReplyDeleteI don't consider one having a "sales" career, unless his income is tied to it, and his employment hinges on his job performance.
If Mitt doesn't convert enough French, what happens? Do they kick him out of the church?
"Everybody works harder than cops"
ReplyDeleteNo doubt true, but Cops get killed and physically attacked. Which is why most people can't & don't want to be one. Plus, we need quality people as Cops and that costs money.
Middleagedvet,
ReplyDeleteJewish Engineers and scientists had little to do with Anglo-American technology in WW II. The only exception is the A-bomb, which had no effect on the German war and little on the Japanese one.
People don't realize that dropping poison gas would've had the same effect as the A-bomb on the Japanese**.
** lets see how many people can read in context!
"Yes Davein; eating croissants and visiting the Louvre on your off day is more difficult than being a coal miner, it's also more difficult than trudging through a rice paddy in 120 degree weather with an M-16 trying to avoid mines, and getting 15 AK bullets in your ass."
ReplyDeleteSlow down there, Truth: you're moving the goal posts pretty fast.
Comparing what people do on their days off doesn't say much about how difficult their jobs are, but it's worth mentioning that Romney did a lot of his door-to-door work in the sticks in France, and Mormon missionaries typically only get one day off per week, and work long hours the other days.
Was it harder than being an infantryman in Vietnam? I don't think so. But that wasn't one of the jobs you mentioned.
"I don't consider one having a "sales" career, unless his income is tied to it, and his employment hinges on his job performance.
If Mitt doesn't convert enough French, what happens? Do they kick him out of the church?"
Money isn't the only driver for some people. For Mitt, succeeding in fulfilling the mission of his church was important enough that he dedicated himself to it.
"Was it harder than being an infantryman in Vietnam? I don't think so. But that wasn't one of the jobs you mentioned."
ReplyDeleteThat was THE job he avoided by going to France.
"Money isn't the only driver for some people."
If the rest of his life is any indication, it's up pretty high.
" For Mitt, succeeding in fulfilling the mission of his church was important enough that he dedicated himself to it."
You don't know how he did, how many conversions he got, or how "dedicated" "Pro-Vietnam Mittens" was, you just know that he was there.
According to Wikipedia, Romney was a dedicated missionary:
ReplyDeleteIn July 1966, he left for a thirty-month stay in France as a Mormon missionary,[20][33] a traditional rite of passage for which his father and many other relatives had volunteered.[nb 3] He arrived in Le Havre with ideas about how to change and promote the French Mission, while facing physical and economic deprivation in their cramped quarters.[13][35] Rules against drinking, smoking, and dating were strictly enforced.[13] Most individual Mormon missionaries do not gain many converts[nb 4] and Romney was no exception:[35] he later estimated ten to twenty for his entire mission.[40] The nominally Catholic but secular, wine-loving French people were especially resistant to a religion that prohibits alcohol.[13][20][41][nb 5] He became demoralized and later recalled it as the only time when "most of what I was trying to do was rejected."[35] In Nantes, he suffered a bruised jaw while defending two female missionaries who were being bothered by a group of local rugby players.[13] He gained recognition within the mission for the many homes he called on and the repeat visits he was granted.[13] He was promoted to zone leader in Bordeaux in early 1968, then in the spring of that year became assistant to the mission president in Paris, the highest position for a missionary.[13][35][42] ...
In June 1968, an automobile he was driving in southern France was hit by another vehicle, seriously injuring him and killing one of his passengers, the wife of the mission president.[nb 6] Romney, who was not at fault in the accident,[nb 6] became co-acting president of a mission demoralized and disorganized by the May civil disturbances and by the car accident.[44] He rallied and motivated the others and they met an ambitious goal of 200 baptisms for the year, the most for the mission in a decade.[44] By the end of his stint in December 1968, he was overseeing the work of 175 fellow members.[35][45
Hey, he promoted 10 to 20 people...in three years, and got promoted to the highest level for that? Are you sure it wasn't Barry who went on that Mormon mission?
ReplyDelete"He's in trouble because he directly insulted 47% of voters, very likely pissing off people on the fence..."
ReplyDeleteNahhh- most of that 47% were gonna vote Obama anyway to keep the handouts rolling in. What're they gonna do, vote Obama twice? Actually, given the Dem tactic of voter fraud, there may be some risk of that....
Truth,
ReplyDelete"That was THE job he avoided by going to France."
I doubt Romney did the missionary work to avoid Vietnam. Given his family connection with the church, he would have answered the missionary call whether or not it was during the Vietnam era.
"If the rest of his life is any indication, it's up pretty high."
I think his goal was to become wealthy so he could then pursue not-for-profit work and public service, which is what he has done. Had money been his main goal, he could have stuck with Bain and become a billionaire by now, like other top private equity chiefs.
"You don't know how he did, how many conversions he got, or how "dedicated" "Pro-Vietnam Mittens" was, you just know that he was there."
Mitt was "pro-Vietnam" in the same way tens of millions of other Americans were: being pro- whatever war the country is engaged in has been the default position of most Americans throughout the country's history.
If you're suggesting he was a hypocrite for rhetorically supporting the war effort without enlisting himself, I disagree. I rhetorically support the war on cancer, but that doesn't mean I'm a hypocrite if I don't become an oncologist or medical research scientist.
If you're suggesting he'd be more qualified to be President had he fought in Vietnam, then why did you vote for Obama over McCain, who spent plenty of time in Vietnam? Neither Obama nor Romney served in the military, so military service shouldn't be an issue one way or another in this campaign.
"Hey, he promoted 10 to 20 people...in three years, and got promoted to the highest level for that? Are you sure it wasn't Barry who went on that Mormon mission?"
Maybe that was one of the highest success rates among the missionaries? Maybe Romney demonstrated his leadership ability in other ways too? Granted, it's not as impressive as Obama's stint in the Choom Gang, but come on.
"I doubt Romney did the missionary work to avoid Vietnam."
ReplyDeleteYeah Davein, he just HAPPENED to get the call, at the one time in his life when the option was possible violent death. Instead of getting the call from the ghost of Joseph Smith, while, say, he was on a nice secure college campus, or making millions of dollars. Do you really, truly believe this?
"I think his goal was to become wealthy so he could then pursue not-for-profit work and public service..."
Once again, bro, I know you like the guy, but I'm getting a stomach ache just reading this.
"Mitt was "pro-Vietnam" in the same way tens of millions of other Americans were: being pro- whatever war the country is engaged in has been the default position of most Americans throughout the country's history."
No, Davein, no it hasn't. Up until Vietnam, not serving in a war, was considered a black mark on one's record in this country; even if you were rich.
"If you're suggesting he was a hypocrite for rhetorically supporting the war effort without enlisting himself, I disagree. I rhetorically support the war on cancer, but that doesn't mean I'm a hypocrite if I don't become an oncologist or medical research scientist."
Yes, but Davein, I don't think that you are encouraging others to become oncologists, or medical research scientists. I don't think that you are taking another job to specifically avoid becoming an o or a r.s., and I don't think, generally speaking that one of these jobs has a much higher rate of death, than what you do now do they?
"If you're suggesting he'd be more qualified to be President had he fought in Vietnam, then why did you vote for Obama over McCain,"
I'm not, and I didn't.
"... who spent plenty of time in Vietnam? Neither Obama nor Romney served in the military, so military service shouldn't be an issue one way or another in this campaign."
Well now, technically speaking, Barry's a war criminal, just like Boy George and the rest of them, but as a matter of degree, he's murdered significantly LESS people overseas than the rest. That fact the Mitt did not serve is not the salient point here; the point is that he felt it was such an important endeavor that OTHERS should serve, while he took a European vacation. Does this make sense.
The larger point Daevin, is that like Rumsfeld, Cheney, and the rest of the John Waynes that run your party, He felt that American interests were significantly important enough to justify American blood...but not his. Am I getting this point across significantly?
"Maybe that was one of the highest success rates among the missionaries?"
Maybe it was, and maybe it wasn't, we'll never know, will we? Just as we will never know Barry's grades, but being successful a MAXIMUM of once every month working 6 days a week certainly SEEMS unsuccessful. This once again again, Davein, is the salient point here: When someone posts what one EXTRAPOLATES to be a level of level of success and keeps getting promoted, people start to wonder; which leads me to the next point...
"....Maybe Romney demonstrated his leadership ability in other ways too?"
Yes, I'm sure he did; he probably led all of the Mormons in France in having the most Fortune 500 CEO daddies. You may be a great Ayn Randian supporter, and believe that we are all equal from birth, my friend, at that everything gained is due to one's hard work, but let me tell you as a man who, I assume, is much older than you. That is bullshit.
Now all this is not to say that Mittens is not intelligent, hard-working, and accomplished, he certainly is. I don't know how old you are, but I'm guessing mid-to-late 20s, and I am merely suggesting that you take a look behind the Faux News headlines. Upon further scrutiny, Mitten's backstory is just as questionable as Barry's is. And maybe a little more.
Truth,
ReplyDeleteI'm older than you think, and I'm not naive. I've served in the military, started businesses, and I've known Mormons, including one who served as a missionary. I know it's expected of someone of Romney's background, which is why I'm pretty sure he would have done it regardless of the war. His subsequent devotion to the church supports that.
I also know that luck, parentage, etc. often play roles in success, and it's possible Romney's famous father helped get him into Harvard (more likely that his Mormon background helped him get into BYU undergrad) but, given that he graduated with honors at BYU -- and that Harvard wasn't as fiercely competitive as it is today -- it's possible he would have got in on his own. Beyond that, he seems to have mostly made his own way.
little to do with Anglo-American technology in WW II
ReplyDeleteBesides the A-bomb, there was Theodor von Karman and his contributions to aeronautical engineering. Louis Fieser's formula for napalm was also brought into production during WWII, but later improved versions played a more important role in the Vietnam War.