Over at Human Varieties, Jason Malloy gives a seminar on the the difficulties and methods of calculating the average IQ for a single country. He works through two dozen scientific papers involving IQ in Jamaica, a small English-speaking country with a not undeveloped academic infrastructure.
Many of the IQ scores come from studies of social science interventions, where the test group are a few dozen disadvantaged people with problems and they are compared to a control group of (hopefully) representative Jamaicans. Other IQ tests were done on advantaged populations (e.g., college students, perhaps people in Montego Bay rather than in the Government Yard in Trenchtown, that sort of thing). Jason concludes:
There is no One True Way to do this, and different methods will have different limitations. An average of all the scores will include many samples that were deliberately chosen for health problems (The median IQ of all the samples in the table is 75). I’ve rated the samples for quality to help limit the influence of less representative test groups. 18 of the 41 samples were disadvantaged, 5 of the samples were advantaged, and 18 were reasonably representative. The median IQ of the disadvantaged samples was 66, while the median IQ of the advantaged samples was 87.
The median of 18 reasonably representative samples gives us an IQ of 80 for Jamaica. This is also consistent with Samms-Vaughan (2005 ), one of the more recent and methodologically robust studies, which shows an average IQ of about 81.
So that's quite a bit higher than the 72 Richard Lynn came up with 11 years ago in IQ and the Wealth of Nations based on one study. (Malloy discusses the problems Lynn ran into). As I pointed out in my review in 2002, Lynn's low scores for black countries suggested the importance of nurture, not just nature in determining average IQ. Since African-Americans average about 85 and they are about 80% black, then this suggests that environmental forces are holding down black IQs in the third world.
On the other hand, reanalysis over the last decade has tended to come up with somewhat higher scores, which, paradoxically, tend to lessen the likely power of nurture on IQ.
On the third hand, Jamaica is not a dirt poor country: in nurture terms, it's healthy enough, rich enough, and smart enough to do whatever it is that helps a country win Olympic sprinting medals.
It would be interesting to see whether there's enough research on the small island of Barbados to come up with a reliable IQ comparison to Jamaica. There has always been a stereotype of Barbados as more educated and genteel than Jamaica, but does it show up in the data?
It would be interesting to see whether there's enough research on the small island of Barbados to come up with a reliable IQ comparison to Jamaica. There has always been a stereotype of Barbados as more educated and genteel than Jamaica, but does it show up in the data?
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46 comments:
Slight O/T, Barbados has a small but significant white minority. The business elite of Barbados is white, and of that, a small but significant minority is descended from "Red Legs", British indentured servants who were "Barbado'ed" in the 17th century. Some live in abject poverty, but some became rich.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hoq3TjTw1BA
One of Barbados's biggest gadflies is Richard Goddard. He's a big environmentalist.
Sounds about right. I'm several standard deviations above the Jamaica mean.
But as my family indicates, Jamaica is not precisely representative of a Black African population as it has a not trivial amount of European, Chinese, and Indian blood in the mix.
Its the ganja, rude boy
"that's quite a bit higher than the 72 Richard Lynn came up with 11 years ago"
Which corresponds to industrialization and economic achievement.
"On the other hand, reanalysis over the last decade has tended to come up with somewhat higher scores, which, paradoxically, tend to lessen the likely power of nurture on IQ."
How does higher scores in the last decade reinforce the nature hypothesis exactly? evolution changes over thousands of years not in a single generation.
American blacks benefitted from the combination of white admixture combined with powerful upselection as the smarter blacks had more children. However, since the LBJ Great Society era the opposite has occurred: stupider and lazier blacks have many more children than smart ones as welfare mothers crank them out. I think that the black underclass has lost probably five to seven points since the mid-60s.
"Interestingly, this IQ increase has coincided with a spectacular increase in crime among these British-born Jamaicans. "
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/black-iq-gains-in-britain-kenya-and-dominica/
But as my family indicates, Jamaica is not precisely representative of a Black African population as it has a not trivial amount of European, Chinese, and Indian blood in the mix.
And a lot more Jewish blood in the mix:
http://www.cjnews.com/node/89025
"The many Cohens and Levys in the Jamaican phone books may not be practicing Jews, though they most likely recognize that they may be descendants of Sephardic Jews who settled there after fleeing the Spanish Inquisition.
"The story begins in 1502 with the fourth and final voyage of Christopher Columbus, likely the son of Converso Jews, who shipwrecked on what came to be known as the Jewel of the Caribbean. (Columbus first visited Jamaica on his second voyage, in 1494.) Spanish monarchs Isabella and Ferdinand granted the island to Columbus and his descendants, and there were many Conversos in Jamaica during Spanish rule, living relatively free of the clutches of the Inquisition."
"How does higher scores in the last decade reinforce the nature hypothesis exactly?"
You missed the point. The new, higher IQ number for Jamaica is based on more studies than Lynn's and is therefore probably more reliable.
If Jamaica's average IQ is 80 (rather than 72) and the African-American average IQ is 85, then it suggests that the vastly better "nurturing" environment of the United States has done little to increase black IQs.
"But as my family indicates, Jamaica is not precisely representative of a Black African population as it has a not trivial amount of European, Chinese, and Indian blood in the mix."
The typical Jamaican looks nothing like they're that mixed.
I remember reading somewhere that Brbadoes and Jamaica were settled by completely different tribes of African slaves.
Barbadoes was Britain's first tropical colony. Black Barbadians tend to be small, squat inoffensive folk, apparently desnded form a west African coastal tribe. Jamaicans, on the other hand, are desnded from all sorts of west African tribes of dubious origin, as Jamaica was a far more capitalistic driven colony than the parochial Barbados.
I guess that's were the fundamental rift of our world view begins.
in that you would describe the United States in any time in history as of being of a "nurturing environment" for black folks.
in that you would describe the United States in any time in history as of being of a "nurturing environment" for black folks.
Then find me a place on this planet that IS a nurturing environment for blacks . . . . and let's check out THEIR average intelligent quotients. I have a few predictions on what we'll discover . . .
"I guess that's where the fundamental rift of our world view begins"
Why world your "fundamental rift" "begin" there? If it is "fundamental", surely there are dozens of other differences much greater than this.
Please tell us where your blog is so we can go visit you there.
"But as my family indicates, Jamaica is not precisely representative of a Black African population as it has a not trivial amount of European, Chinese, and Indian blood in the mix."
One of the fascinating things about the Caribbean is the fluidity of racial definitions. In many places, Rhianna and Beyonce and Halle colored people are called (and call themselves) "white" ... at least until they get to the USA, when they discover that "black" is much more beneficial.
It is not "racist" of them to call themselves "white" and to put on airs, however. It is merely "colorist". "Colorism" is the term American blacks use to describe "racism" when practiced by blacks with an admixture of white blood such as the "whites" in Barbados.
So I guess all those little well groomed black kids dressed up in their cute school uniforms -- a staple shot in every Jamaican tourism commercial ever -- isn't doing all that much. But then, that's probably only the upper crust anyway.
La la la lalala, Montego Bay!
I believe in 2008 Jamaica had the highest murder rate in the world. In my view, based on a lifetime of experience working and interacting with them, they are among the least intelligent and most beliggerent, obtuse, hostile people I have ever encountered.
I don't know, that just doesn't jibe with those Jamaica tourism commercials where they sing "One Heart, One Love" and talk about how my heart and soul will be changed by the warm, gentle people.
An I.Q. of 72 would categorize the average Jamaican as, in old-school terminology, an imbecile or a moron.
These are interesting findings; it'll be interesting to see if Lynn's hypothesized average IQs for Caribbean nations all turn out to be underestimates. As one interested in Hispanic/Caribbean HBD, I'll keep my eye on Malloy's future findings...
@JayMan: Not surprising when you consider how diverse Caribbean ancestors actually were (from the Taíno, Island Caribs, and other Amerindian groups to Africans to Sephardic Jews and even some East Asians)!
@Anonymous 11:27 PM: Not necessarily, since blacks of Jamaican descent aren't representative of all U.S. blacks. Now, if the average Black IQ of all native populations turned out to be 80, you'd have a point. Interestingly, in the late Rushton and Jensen's 30 years paper, they found that environmental factors shrunk the U.S. Black-White IQ gap by a third (or 5 IQ points; perhaps a difference of 5 points between average U.S. Black IQ and average non-U.S. Black IQ isn't too far-fetched)...
@Jessup: Great point! Though I believe "nurturing" in this context involves education and similar interventions some cats think modulate IQ (think all the hoopla on "achievement gaps")...
Could not the supposedly higher I.Q. of the average black American, in comparison with the average black Jamaican, be accounted for not by superior nurture, but simply by the greater admixture of white blood?
I guess that's were the fundamental rift of our world view begins.
in that you would describe the United States in any time in history as of being of a "nurturing environment" for black folks.
Something in the US environment causes American blacks to have IQs several points higher than their relatives elsewhere. If that's not a "nurturing environment", what would you call it?
Cennbeorc
Here’s something to consider, it was the Barbadians who introduced ‘chattel’ slavery to the United States when they settled the Carolinas during the 1600s. Although Virginia brought in the first blacks to the continent (1619), they were more like indentured servants in the early years. A slave culture only gradually developed there in the Chesapeake and was comparatively milder. But blame the Barbadians for creating the mainland plantation economy that eventually spread west to the rest of the Deep South.
"If Jamaica's average IQ is 80 (rather than 72) and the African-American average IQ is 85, then it suggests that the vastly better "nurturing" environment of the United States has done little to increase black IQs."
The actual American average for blacks is 82. It has been customary to round it up. This has been mentioned here before.
I think most people just don't understand how IQ and the normal curve work. Lots of commenters on these kind of blogs think an IQ score is some kind of percentage. Let me suggest another way to think about this issue.
W.E.B. Dubois coined the term "the talented tenth". Other social theorists think that only the top one percent truly matter. They think that all the real contributions to a society are created by only the top people.
Let's say they're right. Let's say the IQ figure of note is 130. That's two standard deviations above the white mean but three above the black. That means that there will be something like 20 times as many of these talented whites as talented blacks - if the populations were equal.
This is a staggering difference. Fifteen IQ points isn't just a 15% difference but more like a 2,000% difference.
An IQ of 130 is about what we expect in Presidents, CEOs, and top inventors, lawyers and novelists. This is about what you need to get a doctorate in any real discipline. More brains yet would be welcomed in many fields but for most high positions an IQ 130 is plenty.
The 99 percentile IQ is about 135. 130 is about the 98 percentile. That means such a person is the "smartest man in the room" when the room holds fifty people.
In America there about five million whites who have IQs at or above 130. But there are only about 50,000 blacks that smart. That's a difference of a hundred times. The white population has 10,000% more smart guys that the black.
Similarly if Jamaica really has an population IQ of only 80 they won't be able to produce any really capable people.
Albertosaurus
Big Bill, Halle, Beyonce and Rhianna are neither black nor white, but part of a racial group with ALL the advantages and NONE of the disadvantages of either, called Piece of A$$.
"Since African-Americans average about 85 and they are about 80% black, then this suggests that environmental forces are holding down black IQs in the third world."
Or that African Americans are beneficiaries of a commensurate increase in IQ to go along with their 20% White (on average) admixture.
United States in any time in history as of being of a "nurturing environment" for black folks
Look at it this way: in your entire life, have you ever heard a single white person say to any black, "look, why don't you start speaking standard English?" Why wouldn't you consider blacks to be "nurtured" (coddled) given uniform immunity to such a reasonable demand?
"..in that you would describe the United States in any time in history as of being of a "nurturing environment" of black folks.
Yeah sure, unlike the nurturing environment of Haiti, Somalia, Ethiopia, or Idi Amin's Uganda. Or a hundred other places.
Harry Baldwin said...
"I don't know, that just doesn't jibe with those Jamaican tourism commercials where they sing "One heart, One love", and talk about how my heart and soul will be changed by the warm and gentle people".
I am not sure if you are serious or sarcastic. You could go looking for those "warm and gentle" people here in Toronto's immigration created Jane and Finch area. Why not go for a stroll alone at night and see for yourself? Or you could go to "Jamaica, Mon", and get the real experience for yourself. There were 1,680 REPORTED murders in Jamaica in 2009 alone. For an island with only a few million people this is incredible. (Source. Jamaica Observer Friday January 8 2010.)
albertosaurus said:
Similarly if Jamaica really has an population IQ of only 80 they won't be able to produce any really capable people.
Albertosaurus
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You may confidently say that jamaica can't produce proportionately as many geniuses as (insert higher IQ population here) but I would be wary of declaring that black jamaica can't produce even one black genius.
This man
https://www.google.ca/search?q=clifford+johnson+string+theory&rlz=1C1CHKW_en-gbCA473CA478&aq=0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=fr&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=ykI1UY-sFubOyAHAkYGYAQ&biw=1170&bih=579&sei=90I1UdTbJqXGygG0oYGQAQ
is a bona fide string theorist and he's from one the tiny caribbean islands (montserrat) that are much smaller than Jamaica. As you can see, he certainly looks mostly black african and he's a real physicist.
Please note that he got his degrees in England.
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@jayman :
While there of course are many people of mixed background in Jamaica, it seems to me that, just like in haiti, the vast majority of the population is fully or overwhelmingly black african.
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To give you an ethnic haitian perspective, people like Rihanna and Beyoncé would belong to the mulatto group because they look like an obvious mix between black and white. In haiti at least, the whites are the actual whites, the arabs ( levantines) and the very light skinned mulattoes from the german, french, danish descended families. I've heard that there was a small jewish community in haiti at some point but that it was absorbed into the local palestinian community(!!!). It sounds unbelievable so I'd have to check that again.
But there are only about 50,000 blacks that smart (130 IQ)
Still useful to note that that means fifty *thousand* blacks who are more intelligent than 98% of all whites, including (statistically) almost every commenter here (including me).
I'd like to know how many of those fifty thousand Jamaicans who are calculated to have I.Q.s of 135 or more are black, and how many are of other races.
And I'd like to see a list of the accomplishments of the black Jamaicans of genius and near-genius I.Q.
"But there are only about 50,000 blacks that smart (130 IQ)
Still useful to note that that means fifty *thousand* blacks who are more intelligent than 98% of all whites, including (statistically) almost every commenter here (including me)."
we all know this. In the larger scheme of things--urban blight, crme stas, street harrassment, integrated scools and shopping malls, just about place where blacks become more than an insignificant minority--it just makes no difference that about one is 5000 has an iq higher than most whites.
"An IQ of 130 is about what we expect in Presidents, CEOs, and top inventors, lawyers and novelists. This is about what you need to get a doctorate in any real discipline. More brains yet would be welcomed in many fields but for most high positions an IQ 130 is plenty.
The 99 percentile IQ is about 135. 130 is about the 98 percentile. That means such a person is the "smartest man in the room" when the room holds fifty people."
my IQ was tested at 138 when I was 24, and I haven't achieved didly. Nevertheless, I wouldn't trade it away.
Even if there is high intelligence there is not necessarily driveor special talent. But, yes, you do need the intellignece first anf foremost.
As far only the upper 1% mattering, all giant achievers stand on the shoulders of the average. None spring from a vacuum. An average/high average population in needed to build an intellectual forum, provide the tools, the maintenance, the improvements, etc.
The society of Jamaica is strictly self-regulated by degrees of blackness, and that is reflected in social status, employment, and wealth. Eric Holder is but one example. To marry into a higher caste family one must first pass the paper bag test. It is understood very well in mulatto run societies that skin color represents something more substantial than merely an undeserved advantage. It may even be felt more acutely in that type of society than it is in ours, where DWL have inured blacks to truth and consequences.
CEOs (and Presidents) have way more ambition and drive than the average person, but don't need to be *that* much smarter. Lawyers need to be about 115-120 to get into law school and pass the bar.
George W Bush has an IQ of about 125, iirc. (Kerry the same or slightly lower.) Obama may be closer to 130; Clinton almost definitely is (White trash Rhodes scholar - no real hand up there). Nixon was probably around 135-140. I'd guess Reagan at 120-125.
In finance, the guys on the trading floor and the people doing the actual computer and financial work are probably smarter than the CEO (unless he's a former floor trader).
If there was an AQ (ambition), you'd see most Presidents and most big-company CEOs who didn't inherit the job out around 150+ AQ. That's what makes them really different from other smart people, not so much a greater degree of smarts.
Re: Barbados and IQ, I got their average IQ as 78. My source..why, Steve Sailer! (Quoting Richard Lynn.)
http://www.vdare.com/articles/a-few-thoughts-on-iq-and-the-wealth-of-nations
(But a respectable GDP purchasing power.)
Every Bajan I've ever met loathes and despises Jamaica and Jamaicans.
I've never been to either country but I've heard nice things about Barbados.
Why is Barbados so much nicer than Jamaica? Is it really as simple as having a larger and more influential white minority?
Reply to Aging Hag said...
"Why is Barbados so much nicer than Jamaica? Is it really as simple as having a larger and more influential white minority?"
It could very well be.
By far the worst country in the whole area is Haiti, which is just about 100% black. The best by far, is Bermuda, which is about 35% white. Then there is sub-Saharan Africa. The one and only country that historically had any significant numbers of whites was South Africa. It was incomparably more advanced then all the other black countries on the continent. As whites continue to flee, I imagine it will revert to the mean for black African countries.
Blacks have a smaller frontal lobe. They aren't as smart. Deal with it.
I am an independent inventor and entrepreneur and the founder of the Professional Inventors Alliance. I have had contact with many top inventors, including Nobel and Inventors Hall of Fame inductees.
My IQ is in the mid 170 range. I am also Asperger, something which seems to run in our family.
I have really enjoyed reading this discussion and while I am late to weigh in I hope this might be useful.
As a young man I greatly valued IQ and thought that on balance smarter people should be better people all around because they are aware of so much more than others.
It turned out (forty years later) that smart does not mean that people are more ethical, or more empathic and so on.
As pointed out here, I have known a handful of pretty smart blacks, but it is a very small number compared to other groups.
There is also the issue of drive which affects rather or not inventors and business people succeed. It is not uncommon for the smartest people to not fare well on their own, while the right partnership often brings out the best of all.
I decided to write here because I very much like to see all people regardless of race. But, in order for people to succeed they need to understand their strengths and weaknesses, to accept what they may be and to work hard to either overcome those or to partner with others who excel in those areas.
In the end, people have to want to improve their lot in life, you can lead them to water but cannot make them drink.
Quite interesting how so many people ramble on and on about Jamaica and Jamaicans. What is rather fascinating is that I have not read a single commentary from any Jamaicans. As a Jamaican then, I feel it necessary to comment. If Jamaicans are so despised, violent, of such low intelligence, and add whatever else you choose to add to the list, then why are WE such an influencial LITTLE country? Why is it that our country is known for at least one thing by people in every single country on earth? Why is our music so popular? Shouldn't it be utter garbage since it spews from the minds of illiterate, violent people of subhuman intelligence? What does it say about people all over the world who revere our culture and its people? What does it say about Britain and Germany who copy our music? We are only 2.7 million people. We've never colonized any other country. We've never used force to conquer any other civilazation, unlike plenty European countries, yet these imbeciles with such low IQs have had such an immense impact on the world.
I completed a M.A. in clinical psychology and handled the WISC, WAIS and Stanford-Benet IQ tests. I can tell you that a portion of these tests are culturally biased. These are tools they use to produce these IQ scores. They can't even explain the Flinn Effect. Are you even sure that IQ tests measure true IQ? How can you tell since there is no way of verifying what they measure exactly? Who sets the test questions to measure the IQ of the person with the highest IQ since the test developer has to be more intelligent than that person? What about those individuals who score twenty or more points more on one subtest than the other and thus their IQs can't be calculated? Verbal IQ measures on these tests, for certain, only measure crystalized knowledge. This dumb Jamaican has figured out a way to measure fluid verbal intelligence. I would type it here, but I'm afraid some much more erudite individual of a much, much smarter country might appropriate my idea. Of course no one would believe that a dumb Jamaican concocted it.
I have never had my IQ tested, but I can assure you that all my American professors have been impressed by my intellect. My Statistics instructor personally pulled me aside and expressed that he is impressed with me and that my mind works quite differently than my peers. No, he was not being inappriate in way, if that's what your mind jumped to. A friend of mine was also present when he said this. I guess these professors must be wrong. I mean, I am a dumb Jamaican afterall. It must make you people feel really good about yourselves sitting in your ivory towers and passing out judgement about the Black, subhumans of Jamaica, the Caribbean and Africa. Maybe one day you will run into this name on a book: I'Heshia. Remember it.
Jamaica is very poor. And even though the majority is black. Jamaicans are not African American and we are out of many one people. For example I am white, mulatto, Indian,Taino, Hispanic , Jewish and Chinese.
No way is Barbados' average IQ that low.
Richard Lynn has been criticized for using low sample sizes for Barbados.
Other sources indicate that the average SAT score for approximately 300 Barbadian students seeking admission at US Universities was 1300 (which comes to an IQ of around 130) (from A Simple Justice: The Challenge of Small Schools).
People would say but 300 students is a low sample size, but Richard Lynn's data set for Barbados was a test of 108 9- to 15-year-olds!
It says it in Lynn's book for Barbados:
"Data for a sample of 108 9- to 15-year-olds were collected for the WISCR by Geller, Ramsey, and Forde (1986) around the year of 1984. They obtained an IQ of 82. Because of the 12-year interval between the two years of data collection, this needs to be reduced to 78." - IQ and the Wealth of Nations, Page 199
Other things indicating a higher IQ for Barbados:
- Cardinal Warde, from Barbados, is a full Professor of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science at MIT, PhD. in physics at Yale University
- Velmer B. Headley, from Barbados, Professor Emeritus of Mathematics at Brock University, has published papers in prestigious mathematics journals
Multiple studies show PhD. physicists and full Professors as having among the highest average IQs of any group...this doesn't fit into a low average IQ.
Barbados has an extremely extremely low population size of less than 300,000 so how would such a thing be possible if Barbados really does have an average IQ of only 78?
Barbados is still more developed than many other "higher IQ" nations...so what does that tell us? It tells us that either the average IQ data is inaccurate or if it's really true that Barbados does have a low average IQ it doesn't matter much.
Many other higher IQ nations are less developed with more poverty than Barbados...which also fits into a higher average IQ for Barbados.
yes, but take into account that jamaica was one of the harshest slavery concentration camps.
read the bio of thomas thislewood, an early jamaican planter.
It was sadistic like hell
I give you an example. The average iq of romani people, former slaves from india mixed with europeans is lower than that of indians in india. The living conditions of romani people are sometimes even harsher than in india. And so are the conditions in jamaica relative to the us
there is no connection between american blacks and africans. You have to compare american blacks with gypsies or sinti and roma.
And africans you have to compare with pakistanis, indians, malaysians, philipines and so on. There are the same averages.
They absorbed into the local lebanese community but also haitian community. Also many germans intermarried into well to do haitian families. Germans and poles were the only whites allowed.
But Haiti is a problem in itself. It was the first cuba, the pariah among the nations, business boycott for many generations in form of sanctions. Like in cuba but much harsher and longer. Tgey had to bring inside lebanese christians and jews in order for trade connections. Because no african coloured or black traders could set up business outposts in the united states. They needed white looking guys for this purpose.
thats why today haiti looks like that.
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