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| Are you telling me you want more immigration? |
A good example of how "He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past" is the flushing of the reports of the 1990s U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform down the memory hole. Bill Clinton appointed black lesbian Democrat Barbara Jordan, a former Congresswoman who gave a famous keynote address at the 1976 Democratic convention, to head the in-depth study of immigration policy.
In 1994, the Jordan Commission reported on illegal immigration:
In particular, we believe that unlawful immigration is unacceptable. Enforcement efforts have not been effective in deterring unlawful immigration. This failure to develop effective strategies to control unlawful immigration has blurred the public perception of the distinction between legal and illegal immigrants.
For the Commission, the principal issue at present is how to manage immigration so that it will continue to be in the national interest.
• How do we ensure that immigration is based on and supports broad national economic, social, and humanitarian interests, rather than the interests of those who would abuse our laws?
• How do we gain effective control over our borders while still encouraging international trade, investment, and tourism?
• How do we maintain a civic culture based on shared values while accommodating the large and diverse population admitted through immigration policy?
The credibility of immigration policy can be measured by a simple yardstick: people who should get in, do get in; people who should not get in are kept out; and people who are judged deportable are required to leave.
During the decade from 1980 to 1990, three major pieces of legislation were adopted to govern immigration policy—the Refugee Act of 1980, the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, and the Immigration Act of 1990.
The Commission supports the broad framework for immigration policy that these laws represent: a legal immigration system that strives to serve the national interest in helping families to reunify and employers to obtain skills not available in the U.S. labor force; a refugee system that reflects both our humanitarian beliefs and international refugee law; and an enforcement system that seeks to deter unlawful immigration through employer sanctions and tighter border control.
The Commission has concluded, however, that more needs to be done to guarantee that the stated goals of our immigration policy are met. The immediate need is more effective prevention and deterrence of unlawful immigration.
The subsequent 1995 Jordan Commission report on legal immigration called for major cutbacks in the numbers of legal immigrants.
Back then, "immigration reform" meant immigration restriction.
Tragically, Jordan died the next year at age 59.
Other than the problem of burying inconvenient history, there is the problem that of the accumulative effect of liberal media and academia.
ReplyDeleteHistorians rely on past news articles and past books to write new history books, and too often, they just swallow the old account as truth.
Since most books and news from the past are liberal, the bias is buikt into research itself.
All this proves is the point that the United States did not enforce the immigration laws it had and failed to prevent illegal immigration in the first place.
ReplyDeleteLike it or not there are now 11 million people who can not just be rounded up and deported like the gestapo (unlikely, unpractical, undemocratic)
It is our blunder and only fair that we are the ones to pay for it not the mexicans.
Jordan was one of those rare progressives who really understood that a sense of social and national cohesion (e.g., Sweden) is needed in order for a welfare state to flourish.
ReplyDeleteIf all of America's progressives thought that way, and still deployed a rhetoric of "nationalism" along with the rhetoric of "socialism", then I'd bet the Steve-o-sphere wouldn't even exist. We'd be much more content with Leviathan if we felt that it worked primarily for the benefit of Americans rather than the benefit of foreigners who just got here yesterday via suspicious means.
Ya know, I think in 50 years, we'll see very clearly that immigration, legal and illegal, since 1965, destroyed the lower half of the black community. (Who know, perhaps the lower 75%?)
ReplyDeleteI know that a lot of Sailer readers will be saying, "Serves 'em right," but this shouldn't blind us to the human tragedy that is going on. Not to mention the unfortunate whites whose lives are destroyed by contact with underclass blacks who are lashing out blindly.
She was a horrible partisan though. A stopped clock might be right twice a day but I don't think NumbersUSA et. al. would be racing to hook their trailer up to that truck even if it was still driving.
ReplyDeleteIts a shame that her death has met that the anti-illegal or some legal immirgation movement is seen as far right because of Pat Buchnan. Probably if there were more Democratics out there like Jordan and it help that she was black we would have been able to fight it better a long time ago.
ReplyDeleteKnowing the way the tribes stick together, I've no doubt Ms. Jordan would have come around to Mr. Obama's way of thinking--publicly, at least.
ReplyDeleteShe was still a pol, through and through, and you can't trust any of 'em.
Like it or not there are now 11 million people who can not just be rounded up and deported like the gestapo (unlikely, unpractical, undemocratic)
ReplyDeleteIt is our blunder and only fair that we are the ones to pay for it not the mexicans.
I believe we could get them to self-deport, but I will play along with your argument that it would be unpractical or undemocratic to do so. So assuming that we have to pay for this problem, then I suggest that Mexico and Mexicans should not be rewarded.
First, if allowed to stay, these Mexicans would not be able to be dual citizens. They must renege their old citizenship prior to being granted American citizenship. My dad had to do this so should they.
Second, they would be required to learn English. No ballots or other government services would be provided in their native tongue. My dad had to do this so should they.
Third, citizenship is for them and them only. There would be no chain migration for other family members. My dad was not allowed to have family unification. They should not as well.
Fourth, there should be a hefty penalty, say 10% which is what one faces for an early IRA withdrawal, on any monetary transfers out of the USA.
"Josh said...
ReplyDeleteLike it or not there are now 11 million people who can not just be rounded up and deported like the gestapo (unlikely, unpractical, undemocratic)."
Your conclusion is baked into your premise, and is completely false. When it comes to deportation, I say: "Si, Se Puede" - "Yes, We Can!"
Why is it "like the Gestapo" to put people on buses and deposit them at the Mexican border? That is a foolish notion. They are not being sent to concentration camps. They are being sent to their own country. The US moves millions of people a day, in buses, trains, and airplanes. It is not logistically impossible to deport millions of people.
And it is no more Gestapo like to deport illegal aliens who do not belong here, than it is to exact monies from citizens like me, against my will, to pay for the welfare payments made to these people, to pay for the schools for their children, hospital care for them, and - for a not inconsiderable fraction of them - the prisons to house them, and to deal with the cost of the crime and disease they bring with them.
I'd bet that Bill Clinton appointed the commission with the exact expectation and desire that it's findings be forgotten.
ReplyDelete"Josh said...
ReplyDeleteIt is our blunder and only fair that we are the ones to pay for it not the mexicans."
Wrong. Absolutely wrong. They knew full what they were doing when they came here illegally. They were breaking into someone elses home. And why should they profit from their crime? Deport them all. They have no business being here, and no legitimate expectation that they should be allowed to stay.
And as a practical matter, the ONLY way to prevent more illegals from coming over is to actually deport the ones who are here. They need to be deterred. Did you not know that the numbers coming here vastly increased after the 1986 amnesty? People respond to incentives - and disincentives.
ReplyDeleteAll this proves is the point that the United States did not enforce the immigration laws it had and failed to prevent illegal immigration in the first place.
Like it or not there are now 11 million people who can not just be rounded up and deported like the gestapo (unlikely, unpractical, undemocratic)
It is our blunder and only fair that we are the ones to pay for it not the mexicans.
Not.
It is not "our" blunder. It is the blunder of politicians. I feel no obligation to suffer further due to their malfeasance.
It is only fair to deport illegals.
"Like it or not there are now 11 million people who can not just be rounded up and deported like the gestapo (unlikely, unpractical, undemocratic)
ReplyDeleteIt is our blunder and only fair that we are the ones to pay for it not the mexicans."
Are you being sarcastic?
It's not anti-democratic or unpractical. Just fine all the employers who hire them.
Is it anti-democratic to arrest people who break into your house? How about just ushering them out of your house?
One talking point I came up with: if Americans support universal background checks on firearms sales, surely they must support universal background checks on employees, too. If Americans are okay with forcing neighbors and family members to perform background checks on one another to buy and sell firearms to one another, then they must surely support forcing employers to perform background checks on people they hire, from big corporations on down to the suburban homeowner looking to hire someone to maintain his yard.
ReplyDeleteHell, why not put both questions on a poll?
I still think cracking down on employers is the way to go. The idea is to make employing illegals into a reverse lotto, where "winning" means bankruptcy. This way, employers will self-regulate as a cost of doing business; they'll be far more interested in keeping illegals out than in how to skirt regulations because the risk will so far outweigh the rewards. And it will focus on employers, not poor immigrants; the press will be forced into focusing on economic doom and gloom ("OMG higher wages and employment, noooo!") and "oh the poor fat cats" stories, rather than on the "human rights" of illegal infiltrators.
That, and making illegal infiltrators ineligible for government services, and otherwise drain the incentives swamp.
How do we gain effective control over our borders while still encouraging international trade, investment, and tourism?
That's the beauty of focusing on the fat cats; it means we won't need to control the border because we'll have removed the incentive for crossing it illegally. And if we want to control the border (e.g., for security purposes), removing the incentives will drastically lower the volume of illegals and make catching the real bad guys that much easier.
How do we maintain a civic culture based on shared values while accommodating the large and diverse population admitted through immigration policy?
We can't.
The credibility of immigration policy can be measured by a simple yardstick: people who should get in, do get in; people who should not get in are kept out; and people who are judged deportable are required to leave.
Deportation is a waste of time, IMO. If we remove the incentives, then beyond that our answer should be incarceration. Which will be feasible because once you've removed all the incentives, the few violators that remain are security risks; criminals and psychos.
Like it or not there are now 11 million people who can not just be rounded up and deported like the gestapo (unlikely, unpractical, undemocratic)
ReplyDeleteIt is our blunder and only fair that we are the ones to pay for it not the mexicans.
Sure, I'll pay to turn employing illegals into a reverse lotto, where winning means bankruptcy. And the poor Mexicans, once they become unemployable, can all walk home under their power, never to have to "pay" for my "sins" again. And having learned their lesson, they'll never have to "pay" again, since they'll know better to touch the stove again.
Jerk.
I just love how "we're" responsible for our corrupt pols and media.
ReplyDeleteIf I had the power I'd have them all frog-marched off to Leavenworth, but it's "my" fault.
Like it or not there are now 11 million people who can not just be rounded up and deported like the gestapo
ReplyDeleteReally, what the fuck do you think that sentence means? Do you imagine that the Gestapo was noted for deporting people? Seriously?
Another fine product of the industrial-educational complex.
Like it or not there are now 11 million people who can not just be rounded up and deported like the gestapo
ReplyDeleteReally, what the fuck do you think that sentence means? Do you imagine that the Gestapo was noted for deporting people? Seriously?
Another fine product of the industrial-educational complex You do need to dport all of them, the job magnet needs to end. Arizona use to do sewing work before e-verify now it doesn't. South Carolina got some blacks to pick crops again. This is a study by numbers usa. The food and hotel industry and Construcation industry needs to be hit hard. And let's say a million to 3 million leave when they are hit hard. Landlords in the barrio love illegals that rent several people to an apartment, think of rents having to drop 200 to 300 dollars in some areas.
I use to listen to the late Terry Anderson who did a radio show in LA. I love his clown of the week which included several republicans and democratics. Terry was black and he fhought more against the illegal immirgation than anyone.
ReplyDeleteShe sounded like one of the very few black people to realize that our current immigration disaster is very bad for blacks. Most blacks seem to think that the minute white people become a minority in the country, all of their problems will be magically solved.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteYou are a profoundly stupid and offensive troll. It's not "ours" (we had nothing to do with it), it's not a "blunder" (it's working out as intended), and it's always fair for wrongdoers to be punished for their wrongdoing.
"if allowed to stay, these Mexicans would not be able to be dual citizens / citizenship is for them and them only. There would be no chain migration for other family members. / a hefty penalty, say 10% on any monetary transfers out of the USA."
ReplyDeletePunitive measures like this would be unfair and unjust why should they and their children be made to suffer for our mistakes? never mind how you would get people on board with legislation like that.
"They would be required to learn English. No ballots or other government services would be provided in their native tongue."
That wouldn't help, one does not learn English overnight and furthermore it's unconstitutional
to tell people what language they are aloud to speak. never fear though America is not going to "go spanish" overnight either.
"Why is it "like the Gestapo" to put people on buses and deposit them at the Mexican border? / It is not logistically impossible to deport millions of people."
Right, we can't secure our borders but what we can do is track, snatch and deport millions(!) of people living here, separating them from their homes and jobs, and their American children.
I think if we had the gumption and logistics to do that we would have already.
And as far as all the money they cost that is directly tied to their illegal status. They pay taxes just like we do for all the benefits they receive, that is something the government takes a little more seriously.
The most laughable part of the current amnesty legislation is that the pathway to citizenship will included requiring the illegals to pay back taxes. 5, 10, 20 years of back taxes? Yeah right!
ReplyDeleteJosh is one with the "Lay back and enjoy it" school of rape counsellors: You are never going to stop rape, so you might as well just lay back and enjoy it.
ReplyDeleteI can't figure out if Josh is serious or is just doing a send up of silly liberal doctrines.He/she does have that earnest liberal college kid tone and he/she lacks the giveaway hint of occasional arch overreaching so I tend to think he/she is serious.
The reason this happened was because the left was scared of the white right wing backlash in the early 90's. The Democrats were ready to reduce immigration. White conservatives were stabbed in the back by the capitalists, corporations and neocons. That's what brought us to the crisis we are at today. If the people who run the GOP had just went with the flow of popular opinion in the 90's and cracked down on illegals as well as cut legal immigration significantly, we wouldn't be talking about immigration anymore.
ReplyDelete"Like it or not there are now 11 million people who can not just be rounded up and deported like the gestapo (unlikely, unpractical, undemocratic)
It is our blunder and only fair that we are the ones to pay for it not the mexicans."
Should Israel follow the same advice you have for America?
"Josh said...
ReplyDeleteRight, we can't secure our borders but what we can do is track, snatch and deport millions(!) of people living here, separating them from their homes and jobs, and their American children. I think if we had the gumption and logistics to do that we would have already."
We could do both if we didn't have a government and a political elite composed of traitors who are entirely indifferent in the matter.
And by the way, the children of illegal aliens are not American. I don't care what some nitwit judge ruled. If a judge ruled that you are a cocker spaniel, would that make you a cocker spaniel?
"And as far as all the money they cost that is directly tied to their illegal status. They pay taxes just like we do for all the benefits they receive, that is something the government takes a little more seriously."
Horseshit. What taxes do they pay? Property taxes? Income taxes? Some of them pay social security taxes, and they all of them pay sales taxes (although not on EBT purchases). In any event, they don't pay much in taxes, because the wages are low. They are a net drain on the public till, as anyone who has studied the matter will tell you. A lot of them don't even buy car insurance, as required by law in most states.
And it has become clear from your comments that you don't really want a solution to the problem anyway - that you are just an apologist for the illegal invasion.
Why is it "like the Gestapo" to put people on buses and deposit them at the Mexican border? That is a foolish notion. They are not being sent to concentration camps. They are being sent to their own country.
ReplyDeleteI take it we're talking about illegal immigrants here. Not, it's not "like the Gestapo" to punish these criminals any more than it is to put other lawbreakers into prison. Nobody is rounding up legal immigrants - now that would indeed be like the Gestapo or NKVD.
svig is right. hit the employers, present your policy in language that makes it look like you're going after the fatcats and not the immigrants to prevent the hostile press from effectively dressing up their inevitable opposition in human rights jargon and make sure that when you *do* hit the employers, hit them hard. confiscate everything they own and put them in jail for fifteen years. wreck their lives. screw them. employing an illegal should be like playing russian roulette with four in the chamber.
ReplyDeleteWe can't find 11 million illegal aliens, but we *can* find 300MM+ legal guns, all of which are smaller, more portable, and more easily hidden than your average Amerindian campesino. Ummm, OK.
ReplyDeletePunitive measures like this would be unfair and unjust why should they and their children be made to suffer for our mistakes?
ReplyDelete"Our mistakes?" What a load of bullshit! We didn't make any mistakes in regard to illegal immigration, and only a misanthropic lunatic could claim we did.
Why should the children of illegals "suffer" for their parents' crimes? Because the alternative is to make us (the victims) suffer for those crimes. That should be obvious.
ReplyDeleteLike it or not there are now 11 million people who can not just be rounded up and deported like the gestapo (unlikely, unpractical, undemocratic)"
Why is it impractical? Eisenhower deported millions of Mexicans who overstayed(and came in legally) .I know things have changed since the 50s but THAT much?
If Eisenhower had deported a few million back then surely just deported a million would serve an example to most and they would take to their heels themselves.
Why is the enforcement of the law undemocratic and impractical?
It is our blunder and only fair that we are the ones to pay for it not the mexicans."
I wouldnt say it is your blunder but it has BECOME your blunder.
I would make the analogy of dependence of illegal immigration to the other famous Mexican export -drugs.
What a dealer does is get you hooked on their product and then you become an addict.
Middle class Americans never ASKED for gardeners,maids,waiters,carpenters,builders etc etc who would work half the price but once it was thrust on them by the collusion and/or indifference of the politicians in U.S and Mexico ,it has become pretty hard to ween yourself of them.
Both sides have some culpability- the American populace not having the will or morale enough to quit cold turkey and the globalized politicians for hoisting it on them in the first place.
It is not really that hard to get rid of the immigrants.
There may be no need for foricible deportation ala Eisenhower
what needs to be done is
1)Get all illegals off welfare and free medical(complete insanity)
2)Penalize those companies and individuals who deal with illegals ie simply enforce existing laws(of course Obama did sue Arizona for that but more egg on his face as that went nowhere)
3)Have a crappy economy(here Obama has done his part-illegals are leaving in droves!)
4)Seal the border
The majority will flee , deport the great chunk of the remaining and extend citizenship to those without criminal records, who were born here(damn 14th amendment) and served in the military /college degree in non Hispanic studies field.
Since I am a bastard I would create a false flag op and blame it on La Raza which lead to their ban and mass arrests but thats me.