Andrew Sullivan blogs:
That is not what IQ is. It’s a very limited measurement of predicted success on our modern economy. There are other kinds of intelligence, which can be measured differently. And you can also note that this research could also be saying that, on some cases, race may lead to superior outcomes – for, say, Asians and Ashkenazi Jews. If all this were a white supremacist plot based on rigged pseudo-science, I would not expect Jews to come out on top, or for there to be no measurable difference in IQ between the two genders, or for Caucasian whites to be in the middle of the pack. And I wouldn’t expect it to earn a PhD at my alma mater.
Since this issue is so explosive and important, I look forward to the scholarly dismantling of the Richwine thesis. Have at it. I’ll happily publish the grotesque, racist errors that somehow got past Christopher Jencks.
He's looking forward to a scholarly dismantling, but he's going to get the usual playground screaming.
ReplyDeleteAndy Sullivan has generally lived a pretty evil life, but his one redeeming act has been his defense of Charles Murray and The Bell Curve.
ReplyDeleteCaucasian whites!? As distinct from white Hispanics?
ReplyDeleteThere are other kinds of intelligence, which can be measured differently.
ReplyDeleteHmmm. Wonder what those "other kinds" of intelligence are, and how they're measured. Maybe Sully will deign to enlighten us some day.
Those that believe in what Moldbug calls “Human Neurological Uniformity” do not understand that there would have to be a force in place to keep it that way. Just like a top needs constant spinning, IQ equality would require a Darwinian force to keep it in place. There is no Darwinian force, now, or ever in history that would have kept it in place.
ReplyDelete"Those that believe in what Moldbug calls “Human Neurological Uniformity”
ReplyDeleteI'll bet these people believe in individual differences, but not just by groups.
Or maybe they do believe everyone can win a Nobel in Chemistry if they just apply themselves.
Well for instance there is social intelligence. I won't say anymore. Ill just add this paraphrase of an earlier comment.
ReplyDelete93 IQ is what us fellow nerds would call second level math ability
How ironic...I didn't read Derbyshire for years because Sullivan kept saying he was so vile. LOL, sorry Derb...
ReplyDelete"There are other kinds of intelligence, which can be measured differently"
ReplyDeleteAndrew, what are these "other kinds of intelligence" ?
What cognitive trait(s) do they define?
Sullivan's a coward, though, isn't he? He'll only go half way, then pull up. Other kinds of intelligence? Yeah, sure, Andy. What are they?
ReplyDelete"Other kinds of intelligence? Yeah, sure, Andy. What are they?"
ReplyDeleteThey are the kids of intelligence for which when you control for their "g loadings", they amazingly and coincidentally lose ALL predictive power. I say amazingly and coincidentally because "g" is nothing more than a statistical artifact, signifying nothing. Or so says Sully.
Andrew Sullivan has done a good job hear, bringing this particular message to people who otherwise would never hear it.
ReplyDeleteAh, it's like Old Home Week 'round here... Surely there's a half-coherent Oliver Stone movie coming out which you can review? Maybe a version of "Moneyball" in Japan but involving the international organ trade and evil twin biotech billionaires, one gay/one straight
ReplyDeleteAs the neighborhood discourse cop, I have to ask why some of you feel the need to attack mainstream pundits when they speak up for our side. Even tepidly sympathetic press coverage tells the public that holding realistic views doesn't automatically make you unfit for human society or public life. The specific messengers' personal, moral, and ideological failings don't change that fact.
ReplyDelete-The Judean People's Front
"Other kinds of intelligence? Yeah, sure, Andy. What are they?"
ReplyDeleteemotional IQ.
"I feel your pain."
Told you Andy's disclaimers are boilerplate. Including the ones (e.g. "multiple intelligences") in this latest effort.
ReplyDeleteHe's on the side, not of the angels, but of the Galileos - in these postings, anyway.
Compare Andy and Frum here. Who's the boss? It's clear.
Look at this line:
"I look forward to the scholarly dismantling of the Richwine thesis. Have at it. I’ll happily publish the grotesque, racist errors that somehow got past Christopher Jencks."
Give due credit: that's an all-destroying thunderbolt from Olympus.
I only wish Andy would retract a few of the things he said about the Derb over the years, even if he doesn't like him. That won't happen, but it's fun to wish.
I also hope Andy won't do a 180 later. They say he's mercurial, you know.
Stay strong, Sullivan. A gang of harpies led by Jennifer Rubin wants to teach you a lesson.
"Give due credit: that's an all-destroying thunderbolt from Olympus."
ReplyDeleteOr should be. But does anybody get the joke anymore?
"Caucasian whites to be in the middle of the pack"
ReplyDeleteI think he just means that north-east Asians score higher (105-107), and every other major racial group scores lower, than the US white median (102 on tests normed for the US).
Funnily enough though, if you take Caucasoids as a whole, not just Europeans, the median Caucasian IQ is around 90, which is indeed around the middle of the pack in global terms.
@JPF
ReplyDeleteThese guys are their own worst enemies. They are extremists in the sense that they lack patience,fortitude, and plain common sense-they want EVERYTHING on their wish list NOW
I loathe Sullivan but like you I am glad he has shown some intellectual honesty and good sense.Something that was sorely lacking when he spend months investigation (from afar) Sarah Palin's womb.He should be ridiculed for that for the rest of his years.
However to expect him to grovel before say Richard Spencer and seek forgiveness for a multitude of his liberal sins as a prerequisite for the average isteve reader to consider showing gratitude for the considerable ammunition and armor he provided their side is just a bit too much