A reader writes:
You're welcome to post this, but please do so anonymously; this is a throwaway account.
I live in Flushing, Queens, one of the largest Chinatowns in America. A couple years ago, a Chinese student studying here was raped and beaten to death by a Hispanic immigrant. It was very sad, not only because of the murder, but because it was very Kitty Genovese, and people saw the attack and heard her scream and didn't call the police. It was very immediate; I live here, and this was on a street I walk down regularly, at an hour when many people are out and about.
Here's the Daily News account of the crime.
One of the local evangelical churches spearheaded a neighborhood watch team in response to this incident and the pressing reality that Chinese immigrants are frequently targeted by criminals because they are perceived to be weak and unlikely to fight back.
The neighborhood watch has been patrolling the area nightly in groups ever since, wearing special vests and carrying large maglites. The group is fantastic, and I've personally benefited when they chased of a drunk man who was aggressively hitting on me on my way home. They're started handing out fliers, and what's remarkable is the degree of ethic awareness and unity which is completely nonexistent among whites.
When the Chinese government's English language paper reported on the event, they noted this.From the English translation, which is a bit stilted:
"Let us draw a lesson from the bitter experience, mend the fold after the sheep is lost, and prevent any recurrence of the tragedy of Yu Yao!"
"Let us unite and get organized, and show the strength of the ethnic Chinese!"
"Let us unite and get organized, and chase the thugs out of our community!"
"If we do not want to see the scene of our mourning our murdered fellow countryman recurring again and again, let us stop being indifferent or care only about ourselves!"
"Let us not keep quiet about the thousands of years of our national character, be less selfish, less indifferent and more vociferous, show more concern, help each other more to pull through a plight, and act bravely for a just cause!"
By the way, is this Chinese kind of 19th Century nationalist rhetoric of collective self-improvement common in India? Or are Indians past all that old-fashioned stuff?
And from the Chinese patrol's Code of Conduct:
- We will note darkened street lamps for timely repair by the relevant departments.
- We will note graffiti to be cleaned up by the relevant departments.
- We will talk to families whose porch lights are too dim to get better lighting.
- We will talk to businesses and encourage them to install cameras at their storefront.
They're also offering free self defense lessons every week to all comers, and passing out flyers with safety information on the main thoroughfares. From what I can see, adults are organizing this, but much of the labor is coming from teens and twentysomethings. Can you even imagine the uproar if, say, a lower class white neighborhood in Chicago were to do this? It's political organization. It's community. It's incredibly effective. And it's so offensive to the elites you'd get shut down if they knew about it.
I don't think the situation is quite that bad, but there are definite class issues in what white people are allowed to get away with. High class white people like Mayor Bloomberg can get away with harassing Latinos and blacks for so long and so effectively that eventually some voters forget why he ramped up stop-and-frisk in the first place.
I wonder if low class whites who are Democratic voters, such as in tough egg neighborhoods in Boston, can get away with more than low class whites in red states?
Shouldn't that be "Diego"?
ReplyDeleteCan you even imagine the uproar if, say, a lower class white neighborhood in Chicago were to do this?
ReplyDeleteThe irony, of course, is that the uproar would come from other Whites.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYflSlsXP5M
ReplyDeleteHow global elites think of us.
Harry Lime in THIRD MAN:
"Victims? Don't be melodramatic. Look down there. Tell me. Would you really feel any pity if one of those dots stopped moving forever? If I offered you twenty thousand pounds for every dot that stopped, would you really, old man, tell me to keep my money, or would you calculate how many dots you could afford to spare? Free of income tax, old man. Free of income tax - the only way you can save money nowadays."
"Chinese immigrants are frequently targeted by criminals because they are perceived to be weak and unlikely to fight back."
ReplyDeleteCriminals be 'racist' for thinking yellows be the weaker race. And Chinese be 'racist' for acting in a manner that validates this 'racist' notion.
Aint no racial differences. All folks be the same.
When I was 21, I reflected that I would sprint out in the middle of the night to attack a Kitty Genoveseesque knifeman with my bare hands
ReplyDeleteWe had, and I volunteered for, the same kind of escort service, at Miami University (Ohio), even though the chance of meeting a rapist was vanishingly small in Oxford, Ohio. Nonetheless, the lesbians who ran the program purged the male volunteer escorts because "every man is a potential rapist." Big uproar ensued, but they prevailed.
ReplyDeleteIn the partially gentrified neighborhood of Uptown some of the more recent arrivals have organized what they call "positive loitering". Organized via the internet, they hang around in groups at night in areas they think are hot spots in order to act as scarecrows. They socialize, bring their dogs, gossip, etc. They look to be mostly women and gays, liberal church putz types, etc. No Charles Bronsons amongst them and not what most people would designate as low class. They are in constant communication with the alderman and the police dept and other city agencies regarding streetlights and such.
ReplyDeleteWhat's funny is that one look at them and you just know they're all a bunch of Obama voters. Yet they need the cops so they pretend to adore the cops, heaping praise on them when they act expeditiously. Any other time they'd be hostile to cops in general; brutality, civil rights violations, free Mumia, the whole shebang. They usually try to corral some minorities so as to establish their multi-cult credentials even though that's pretty fake. I wonder what they really think of Zimmerman and how that would differ from what any of them would say about him if asked.
Who? Whom? It' all about who whom
ReplyDeleteCall me blind but I do not see why anybody in America couldn't do what these people did.
ReplyDeleteI am assuming you do not mean all-white safety patrols that would exclude other neighbors in an area from participating and that the patrols would not be singling out particular groups and hassle them.
But this association didn't make their cause against any other groups, but just focuses on doing things that will increase their own safety. What is there for critics to object to?
In New York, it's a given that increasing safety is a plus.
I think that's true across America.
"Shouldn't that be "Diego"?"
ReplyDeleteI figure a J-name works better.
Low class whites can get away with plenty -- they just have to join the police force first.
ReplyDeleteI visited the Blasket Island visitor center on the Ring of Kerry (right by where my Cass Sunstein got married to Samantha Powell), and was surprised to learn that a few decades after the Blasket Islanders had been profiled by a Norwegian linguist as the last of the Wild Irish, they all relocated to Massachusetts, where the strapping young men - to a man - joined the local police forces.
I wonder if low class whites who are Democratic voters, such as in tough egg neighborhoods in Boston, can get away with more than low class whites in red states?
ReplyDeleteGoogle "sundown towns." Low class red state whites got away with with posting sundown signs up until very recently in some places. And the signs only came down due to internal pressure; it was almost completely ignored by the media and feds.
By the way, is this Chinese kind of 19th Century nationalist rhetoric of collective self-improvement common in India? Or are Indians past all that old-fashioned stuff?
ReplyDeleteFrom my impression, Indians are way more into this kind of rhetoric.
Steve queried:
ReplyDeleteBy the way, is this Chinese kind of 19th Century nationalist rhetoric of collective self-improvement common in India? Or are Indians past all that old-fashioned stuff?"
Im sure you know that China is a lot more homogenous than hyper diverse India so such level of col lectivism is difficult. In India anyway, only on matters of political and beureaucratic corruption can the masses and elites of different backgrounds unite to agitate
For whatever reason anti Indian feeling in the West is lesser than the anti Chinese. Perhaps because the assertive Chinese with their kung fu and triads are viewed as more dangerous than Indians with yoga and Bollywood! Its another matter that Bodhidharma who founded kungfu in China also helped formalized yoga postures in order to aid warrior penances was a Buddhist monk for South India.
In the Middle East wherever I lived and work , the situation is the same but for different reason. Anti Indian overt discrimination is strong because the Indians are mild mannered however Arabs fear the Chinese so they walk on egg shells around Chinese nationals
That in a nutshell is the difference between Middle Eastern and Western approach to
power.
Anyway speaking of anti Indian agitation. I first of the "Dotbusters"(stupid name,I know) a NJ based anti Indian hate group when I was a young foolish college liberalish type , I first thought ..damn these WASPs/Rednecks why cant they leave us in peace?
Later I check the wikipedia page and these were the names of the members who were charged with the murder of Navroz Mody ,who was not even Hindu(whose habit of wearing dots inspired the groups stupid name) but Parsi
"The four convicted of the attack were Luis Acevedo, Ralph Gonzalez and Luis Padilla - who were convicted of aggravated assault; and William Acevedo - who was convicted of simple assault"
Oh!
Also on their page on Indian Americans:
"In December, 2012, an Indian American in New York City was pushed from behind onto the tracks at the 40th Street-Lowery Street station in Sunnyside and killed.[86] The police arrested a woman, Erika Menendez, who admitted to the act and justified it, stating that she shoved him onto the tracks because she believed he was "a Hindu or a Muslim" and she wanted to retaliate for the attacks of Sep 11, 2001."
Not a very sharp one, this Erika Menendez.
SD said...
By the way, is this Chinese kind of 19th Century nationalist rhetoric of collective self-improvement common in India? Or are Indians past all that old-fashioned stuff?
From my impression, Indians are way more into this kind of rhetoric."
Oh we are very much into the rhetoric which is promoted by the government and the media(including Bollywood which unlike Hollywood is quite patriotic). But translating it into action is something the Chinese are far more successful at
I wonder if low class whites who are Democratic voters, such as in tough egg neighborhoods in Boston, can get away with more than low class whites in red states?"
ReplyDeleteMark Wahlberg
" however Arabs fear the Chinese so they walk on egg shells around Chinese nationals"
ReplyDeleteMemories from the times the muslim world was utterly and mercilessly savaged by the Mongols maybe?
The chinese received similar treatment but to the muslim world they must look all the same anyways.
By the time the Mongol hordes were plundering the Arab world, they had assimilated a lot of other nationalities into their ranks. They had also appropriated Chinese siege engine technology and had hundreds, if not thousands of Chinese engineers and other specialists in their ranks. I'm sure the Chinese played more than a passive role in the destruction of Baghdad.
DeleteDuring the black riots in London lower mid class whites in a white flight neighbourhood in SE London organised a community lookout group, the media condemnation far exceeded that of the actual rioters. The right wing press noted that a Sikh group organised to protect their area received only praise.
ReplyDeleteDuring the black riots in London lower mid class whites in a white flight neighbourhood in SE London organised a community lookout group, the media condemnation far exceeded that of the actual rioters. The right wing press noted that a Sikh group organised to protect their area received only praise.
ReplyDeleteYeah, and it was seen that the whites were forming into a group, major police resources were pulled from the riot areas to confront and contain the whites. At the time, there was a youtube video showing this-don't know if it's still up.
"Mark Wahlberg"
ReplyDeleteThings can change in 30 years.
Google "sundown towns." Low class red state whites got away with with posting sundown signs up until very recently in some places. And the signs only came down due to internal pressure; it was almost completely ignored by the media and feds.
ReplyDelete"Very recently" means like the 1930s.
The irony, of course, is that the uproar would come from other Whites.
ReplyDeleteYou're obviously new here.
notsaying said...
ReplyDeleteCall me blind but I do not see why anybody in America couldn't do what these people did.
I am assuming you do not mean all-white safety patrols that would exclude other neighbors in an area from participating and that the patrols would not be singling out particular groups and hassle them.
Yeah, you're blind. Any verbal confrontation between this group and a "youth" can easily turn into a "racial" incident involving "profiling" and now, in the post-Zimmerman era, "stalking."
"I wonder if low class whites who are Democratic voters, such as in tough egg neighborhoods in Boston, can get away with more than low class whites in red states?"
ReplyDeleteThe Beacon Hill crowd hates Southies, but, you know, we need their votes.
"Shouldn't that be "Diego"?"
ReplyDeleteUmm, no. Diego is Spanish for James. Jack is usually a nickname for John. So Juan is correct.
"Forget it, Juan, it's not the old Chinatown"
ReplyDeleteUhhh, being a 50 yr old New Yorker, the old Chinatown was East Asian thugs like the Ghost Shadows keeping the peace and a piece of the action in compensation. Where's Nicky Louie when you need him. As I write this a Chinese lady is fishing through my recycling bag looking for bottles with a deposit. My guess is there is plenty of feedstock for decent Chinese organized crime gang.
When I was like growing up Nicky Louie was shot like 20 times over like 10 different incidents (back then I like used the word like a lot). Back then you could still see Kung Fu movies full screen in theaters and they were a new concept so needless to say after reading about Nicky Louie and others constantly cheating death I kind of thought maybe Chinese were indestructible like in the movies.
"Something of a Chinatown legend, the former street thug is pitching a book and movie deal based on his life of murder, extortion and robbery."
http://nypdconfidential.com/columns/1994/940912.html
The neighborhood watch thing will hold up until the inevitable budget cuts due to retired police outnumbering active police. The first signs of the neighborhood watch backed up by the police falling apart is George Zimmerman.
"Forget it, Jake, it's Chinatown."
ReplyDeleteJacob in Spanish is Jacob. Is there a shorter version that's recognizably Spanish?
"I wonder if low class whites who are Democratic voters, such as in tough egg neighborhoods in Boston, can get away with more than low class whites in red states?"
ReplyDeleteTough egg neighborhoods? You've been watching too much Sopranos. Below is an article about the residents of South Ozone Park complaining to their likely Jewish Assemblyman about tin badge airport cops parking in their driveways. South Ozone Park is known to a movie critic like you as where the Goodfellas 'known mafia location' was. When I was a kid blacks being chased out of and sometimes being killed around there was a common occurrence. Back then if you parked in some Eye-talian's driveway the results of a brick, kerosene and a match were what you would return to. But these days Italian Americans are hardly an object of menace unless they have a Jewish lawyer.
Goldfeder wants TSA to park at airport
http://m.qchron.com/mobile/editions/south/goldfeder-wants-tsa-to-park-at-airport/article_45e61e41-5304-5891-8332-2c1a8fc748dc.html
Robert's Lounge known mafia location.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert%27s_Lounge
James = Jacobo/Jaime/Yago
ReplyDelete""""but because it was very Kitty Genovese""'
ReplyDeleteWas is also very Kitty Genovese in that the murderer's identity was downplayed?
I grew up in NY State and remember the repeated use of the Kitty Genovese story as a morality play in my public school. However it was not until years later that I learned that the killer had been found and convicted, or that he had murdered others and even after convicted he escaped and had kidnapped and raped some more. My teachers never told me the rest of the story.
http://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-greening-of-germany.html
ReplyDeleteIt is not common in India at all, since the elite is Anglicized and is leftier than the New York Times. We are trained from kindergarten not to think about India's historic unity as a nation/ethny. Instead we have it drilled into our heads that we were one big roiling mass of hatred and oppression until the beautiful socialist democracy we have now was created. And then we are told to love our Muslims (who want to annihilate us) and this further precludes any attempt at creating a sense of national unity.
ReplyDeleteSo without a sense of nationality based on history or ethnicity, the only thing we are left with is being a proposition nation. But our propositions are the same as that of american progressives - liberalism, democracy, socialism, affirmative action. So technically our elites and media do not allow for any rhetoric of national self improvement.
On the other hand we have a strong right wing that does speak in this manner. But it is found primarily among the middle classes, not the elite.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2424136/Why-parents-approve-partner-They-instinctively-want-tend-daughters-need.html
ReplyDeleteDork World.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/sep/13/jonathan-franzen-wrong-modern-world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZSBWbnmGrE
Nonetheless, the lesbians who ran the program purged the male volunteer escorts because "every man is a potential rapist." Big uproar ensued, but they prevailed.
ReplyDeleteThe lesbians at the Women's Transit Authority ran the same scam in Madison, Wisconsin back in the late 70s.
Their argument was a little different. They said that college girls were so afraid of men that they would decline to use the service if men were permitted to drive the cars or escort girls on foot.
The WTA was way, way butch back then. My girlfriend did not want me to walk her to her late night volunteer gig at the WTA because the dyke volunteers would give her grief for being straight and (worse) bringing her boyfriend to The Dyke Zone.
You can tell a lot about the state of a Culture by its various artifacts, painting, movies, etc. As such - I am not surprised at all by the response of the Flushing, Queens Chinese community and subsequent nationalist self-improvement rhetoric of the Chinese government. Why?
ReplyDeleteWell, if you want to get some sense of current Chinese nationalist (and cultural) zeal and confidence, check out the current crop of Kung-fu movies on Netflix. These movies are not Sammo and Jackie running around on wires in Hong Kong back in the day (although those movies ARE fantastic in their on right). No, the current crop of kung-fu flicks have large(relatively speaking) budgets, fantastic lighting, well done (if oft told) stories, and dynamic performances, in terms of both fighting AND acting, from actors like Donnie Yen and Jet Li.
(I think Jet Li's acting in Western movies is so lackluster because he in speaking in an entirely foreign language, using different facial muscles, and is therefore inhibited his ability to be as expressive as he is capable off, because his acting in his native tongue (Cantonese) is astounding,i.e, "Ocean Heaven" where he plays the terminally ill father of a boy with serious Autism.)
Many of the current crop of kung-fu movies, not set in distant history, focus on the period when the Quing dynasty ended, through the early Republic warlord era, and the Second Sino-Japanese War. The antagonists are mythologized historic figures. The theme of foreign devils, problems caused by lack of UNITY (this comes up all the time), focusing to much on the I and not the WE, and the redemptive qualities of hard physical labor, are always below the surface. Also, the hero's actions are invariably framed in a nationalistic light. Of course, we never get any movies of heroic Shaolin monks helping the local KMT officer fend off murderous communists.
Anyway, these nationalist type kung-fu flicks always reflect a strong religious element. Generally, the main antagonist is, in some way, flawed, and acting in contravention of traditional Chinese values i.e., arrogant (Huo Yuanjia - "Fearless"), disconnected (Ip Man), even a murderous warlord (Ho Jie -"Shaloin"), and there is a FALL - and the way back up leads along the path of traditional Buddhist religious/cultural values which are, in some vague and opaque way embedded in, and expressed though, Chinese Wushu (Martial Arts); hence, kung-fu movies.
Despite the above - the movies don't come across as didactic propaganda (which, of course, they sort of are), because they are always tell very human stories, and there is a lot universality in them. However impossible that may seem. They have an organic and dynamic feel to them and are made with a lot attention to detail by people that neither feel the need to apologize or equivocate about their faith in their Culture. Good for them. Hah,their kung-fu is still strong!
Flushing is an interesting neighborhood. Although largely Asian these days, in the heart of the downtown area is a very large housing project that is mostly black. Although there are also Asian street gangs, most of the violence occurs in and around the projects.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/08/31/national/married-or-single-japan-is-a-desolate-country/#at_pco=tcb-1.0&at_tot=8&at_ab=-&at_pos=0
ReplyDeleteMe so ronri, me so ronri.
Rotfl.
By the way, is this Chinese kind of 19th Century nationalist rhetoric of collective self-improvement common in India? Or are Indians past all that old-fashioned stuff?
ReplyDeleteIn America, Indians do NOT say stuff like this.
DJF said...
ReplyDelete""""but because it was very Kitty Genovese""'
Was is also very Kitty Genovese in that the murderer's identity was downplayed?"
I remember that when Kitty Genovese' murderer was up for a parole hearing, the New York Times editorialized that it would be unfair if the notoriety of this crime would result in a longer sentence than if the crime had not received so much attention. This was a while back, but it was opinions like this that helped me see liberalism for what it is.
"DJF said...
ReplyDeleteI grew up in NY State and remember the repeated use of the Kitty Genovese story as a morality play in my public school. However it was not until years later that I learned that the killer had been found and convicted, or that he had murdered others and even after convicted he escaped and had kidnapped and raped some more. My teachers never told me the rest of the story."
And of course they never told you that the killer was black.
"By the way, is this Chinese kind of 19th Century nationalist rhetoric of collective self-improvement common in India? Or are Indians past all that old-fashioned stuff?"
ReplyDeleteHindus flip out over words.
http://www.freedomtoread.ca/censorship-in-canada/attacks-on-canadian-publications-abroad/#.Uj3YNNK-r7Q
http://www.chathamhouse.org/media/comment/view/181739
Bloomberg may be upper class but he certainly isn't "high class".
ReplyDeleteHowever, the real issue is ethnicity, not class.
If the WASP mayor of a disproportionately WASP city tried to implement NYC style stop and frisk, it wouldn't matter if he were rich or poor. He would be incessanty demonized by the media.
It all comes back to the PC pecking order. You are allowed to defend your group interests against other groups lower in the pecking order, but not against other groups higher in the pecking order. If a group is far enough below your own, they can be mercilessly mocked, insulted and defamed. (Caddy Shack 2, the character "Freakshow" from Harold & Kumar go to White Castle - rich or poor, WASPS are fair game)
As near as I can tell, the pecking order goes something like this:
Jews
Blacks
other non-Whites
White Catholics
White Protestants
(The term "white" with a lower case "w" is thus seems completely useless when discussing ethnic relations in America, since it lumps together the people at the pinacle of the PC pecking order and the people at the base of the PC pecking order into one group.)
The ostensible justification for the pecking order is the various groups' histories of victimhood. The manner in which history and current events are presented to the national audience are thus tightly controlled to reinforce the perception of victimhood for some groups, while strictly denying all evidence of victimhood for other groups.
The truly astonishing thing about the PC pecking order is the complete lack of opposition to it. Ostensible enemies of PC such as race realists and counter jihadists aren't interested in abolishing PC, they just want to demote Blacks and Muslims down the pecking order. White Catholics may resent their low rank in the pecking order, but they tenaciously cling to their ability to control the narrative concerning the history of Catholic/Protestant conflict. Saddest of all are the coping mechanisms of White Protestants. Forced to admit that their group has victimized every other group on the planet, without themselves ever having been the victims of collective wrongdoing, they try to define themselves as part of a sub-group which can at least claim a history of oppression at the hands of fellow Nordics: women oppressed by men, gays oppressed by straights, pagan/ wiccan/ satanist/ atheist oppressed by Christians, Scots oppressed by English, working class oppressed by WASP elite, enlightened WASP elitist stifled by ignorant rednecks - anything to avoid finding oneself on the uttermost bottom rung of the PC pecking order.
And above all, anything to avoid actually exposing and challenging the PC pecking order.
@hardly
ReplyDeleteYou are right when you say that the elites view the masses of a witches brew of various sects. Indeed it is interesting that the one that can unite most of the country is a hard Hindu revivalism coupled with an ancient nationalism(the regions and ethnicities associated with present day India were mentioned as far back as 4000 BC and even then including in the greater supra national state Bharatavarsha)
But nooooo...the elites wont have that!
I do maintain that Bollywood is very patriotic but theirs is a leftist modernist patriotism vaccillating between the sophisticated international Nehru and the rustic provincial Indira.
Leftist patriotism is something our right leaning Western friends can quite comprehend as they imagine our Left and their Left is pretty much the same. It really isnt.
The patriotic left in India was disillusioned after the disastrous war with China.Some of whom left the movement to become leading Hindu revivalists.
Just compare and contrast the movies of the two eras
I remember the Nehruvian late 50s and early 60s Bollywood movies where the romantic lead was a jet setting playboy who would romance this girlfriend in Paris while winning Polo matches in Argentina.
All that would end with Indira taking charge with the hero being a semi literate sullen ,slovenly disillusioned man from the slums or the country and it continued under his idiot son until he was dispatched off by the LTTE
When the markets opened up in the 90s ,movies became both crass(the delayed sexual revolution) and cosmopolitan at the same time.
In the late 90s till today you cant swing a cat at a Bollywood multiplex with hitting a film poster of a couple living abroad in either UK,US or Switzerland
Flushing used to a a very Jewish neighborhood. Rob Morrow's Jewiss doctor character on Northern Exposure was from there. Where did they all move to?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ashraf-islam-trial-muslim-convert-2289383
ReplyDeleteUK turning into a joke.
Steve, even Bloomberg could not get away with Stop and Frisk for long. Its dead. As is NYC, a walking-dead city. Bill deBlasio has pledged to keep Stop and Frisk dead, dead, dead Jim.
ReplyDeleteAnd that is the tragedy of urban spaces. They are not sustainable because they attract NAMs who will not accept in any way, restrictions on predatory, criminal behavior.
As far as Harry Lime goes, that sort of behavior is OK if you think you need money more than you need your fellow co-ethnic to fight against threats all around you. Given that money only dates to 700 BC and the Kingdom of Lydia, I'd say Lime was ultimately the sucker. Which was doubtless Wells point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ4vrWiJiLQ
ReplyDeleteI guess all these Chinese techniques are useless as most Chinese guys are too scrawny.
[T]he pressing reality that Chinese immigrants are frequently targeted by criminals because they are perceived to be weak [and rich!] and unlikely to fight back.
ReplyDeleteVery few of the Asians in Flushing are rich. Most are first-generation immigrants who often speak English poorly or not at all. Asians with money move a few miles east into Bayside, Douglaston or Little Neck, or into the suburbs.
Peter
Kitty Genoveseesque knifeman with my bare hands
ReplyDeletesince he was black, it would be a george zimmerman like hate crime
In NYC, Hasidic Jews have vigilante groups that harass blacks and Hispanics who wonder into their neighborhoods after dark.
ReplyDeleteThe media, police and politicians treat these groups with great deference, although some of the vigilantes have got in trouble a few times.
Mr Anon writes “”And of course they never told you that the killer was black.””
ReplyDeleteNo, in fact the killer was hardly mentioned. So no talk about a black, multiple count thief, rapist, murderer who practiced necrophilia
Instead it was all about how society as represented by 28 people who did not help Kitty Genovese was callous and needed reform. Being 1964 that meant a overwhelmingly white society. And the NYT’s which had pushed this story was very willing to tell people how society should be reformed
It was also years later that I learned that this morality play put forward by the NYT was also not all of the story. the murder occurred at 3:30 in the morning, none of the “eyewitnesses” had seen much and most had only heard what they thought was a drunken brawl or a lovers argument.
But the “narrative” had been created, a narrative which attacked how people viewed the morals of a mostly whites society while at the same time taking the spotlight off of the real guilty party
@DJF: "I grew up in NY State and remember the repeated use of the Kitty Genovese story as a morality play in my public school. However it was not until years later that I learned that the killer had been found and convicted, or that he had murdered others and even after convicted he escaped and had kidnapped and raped some more. My teachers never told me the rest of the story."
ReplyDeleteLike the fact that Genovese's killer, Winston Moseley, was black.
http://www.vdare.com/articles/forgotten-victims-american-workers-immiserated-by-chinese-immigration-in-nineteenth-century
ReplyDeleteChinee problem of past.
DVN - "Leftist patriotism is something our right leaning Western friends can('t) quite comprehend as they imagine our Left and their Left is pretty much the same. It really isnt."
ReplyDeleteThose of us who are old enough can comprehend. The UK left used to be patriotic - the Labour Party of the 40s/50s/early 60s.
http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/battle-the-soul-india-8993
ReplyDeletehttp://www2.macleans.ca/2013/09/20/walter-white-will-not-be-missed/
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/07/29/the-sports-guy-and-the-witch-a-tale-of-medias-future/
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/09/20/walter-white-will-not-be-missed/
ReplyDeletehttp://www2.macleans.ca/2013/09/20/mexico-is-mad-at-us-and-it-is-so-a-big-whup/
ReplyDeleteLOL about "positive loitering."
ReplyDeleteHere's a couple of choice sentences from a Google hit on the term. Yes, the protagonist (a SAIC architecture prof) is Obama/SWPL to a T.
http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130516/irving-park/positive-loitering-aims-resolve-conflicts-between-irving-park-neighbors
"Then the parties started next door. Twenty to 30 people coming and going into the wee hours, music blaring until 3 or 4 a.m., open drug use...
"When asked how he had handled complaints in the past, Balbuena said, "My response was to tell them to call the police."
"Of the loud music, he said, a tenant "was in the Marines. Whenever he comes back, they have their celebration. It's an ethnic thing, ma'am."
"Lazaro Magdariaga, who lives behind the Pancoasts and has been identified by the couple as part of the problem, said, "I can see lowering the music, especially at night. Open drug use ... it's almost part of our culture. It's only a problem when it comes to selling drugs."
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/berger/2013/09/18/american-buddhists/
ReplyDelete"American culture has favored an optimistic and problem-solving culture almost from its beginnings—“the pursuit of happiness” as a foundational value. The morphing of Buddhist techniques for obtaining release from cosmic reincarnation into a mundane method for wellness and self-realization, is not the first time that America has “enculturated” a pessimistic ideology by twisting it into an optimistic creed. The gloomy Calvinism of the Puritans mutated into the optimistic missionary outreach of most American Protestants—all are invited to come to the altar and be saved. Since I mentioned psychoanalysis before: Freud had a gloomy view of human nature and pessimistic expectations of the success of his own method of treatment. Classical Freudian psychoanalysis has not done too well in America, but it has triggered a huge number of therapeutic denominations oozing exuberant optimism. I suppose that a billboard I recently saw in Texas could be expanded to apply to the pragmatic optimism of the larger American culture—“If you want something done, tell a Texan that it cannot be done.” And so – “…tell an American…”
I suppose this characteristic of American culture is not difficult to explain. It belongs to a country with wide-open spaces, physical as well as social, and in recent decades it was a culture befitting a world power. This may now be changing. The geographical space has been mostly filled and mobility in the social space has become more difficult. American world power is probably in decline. Freudian therapy is too expensive and thus unlikely to overcome the competition. Curiously, full-blooded Calvinism (predestination and all, most of humanity destined for eternal damnation) is all the rage among theological students and young pastors in the Southern Baptist Convention (traditionally the most open in its call to all to come and be saved). Possibly the gloomier versions of Buddhism may also find a new market…"
Umm, no. Diego is Spanish for James. Jack is usually a nickname for John. So Juan is correct.
ReplyDeleteDiego is Spanish for James/Jacob. Mr. Gittes was named "Jake". So, yes, it should be Diego.
Some of the white lower class is in the Inland counties of California like Kern. For example, Placer Hispanic kids even have lower out of wedlock births than whites in Kern. Placer teen rate is only 14 versus Kern over 40. I would classify that as a red state lower class since Kern whites vote Republican a lot. Placer interesting is one of the few good income counties left in California that votes Republican and if you adjust for cost of living it does better than Marin.
ReplyDeleteThis is the "Rational Robber" defense. It is used quite successfully to defend black rapists, robbers and murderers from hate crimes charges.
ReplyDeleteHere is the problem. During initial police questioning, blacks often admit to deliberately seeking out, attacking and robbing white people.
Faced with this testimonial record, public defenders must somehow rehabilitate them to prevent "Hate Crime" charges.
So their public defenders argue that there are rational reasons for deliberately attacking white people
That's the "who-whom?" defense operating in a corrupt judicial system. There are rational reasons for deliberately discriminating against blacks. Can't argue that in court to any good effect, though.
Many of the current crop of kung-fu movies, not set in distant history, focus on the period when the Quing dynasty ended, through the early Republic warlord era, and the Second Sino-Japanese War. The antagonists are mythologized historic figures. The theme of foreign devils, problems caused by lack of UNITY (this comes up all the time), focusing to much on the I and not the WE, and the redemptive qualities of hard physical labor, are always below the surface. Also, the hero's actions are invariably framed in a nationalistic light. Of course, we never get any movies of heroic Shaolin monks helping the local KMT officer fend off murderous communists.
I think I got the point from watching the one where hundreds of Chins do synchronized Tai Chi while hundreds more sing "JONGGUO bla bla bla" over and over in the intro. In America, a movie that starts with hundreds of white people doing synchronized martial arts while changing "America!" over and over is either an action movie about evil white racists, or a comedy about evil white racists.
Chinese cinema is actually only moderately nationalist, in my experience, which of course looks just like extremist radical fringe zealot superpatriot nationalism to the sissies in the west.
Post 1965, Americans do not sing in groups in film. They do not do synchronized martial arts in film. They do not do anything in groups (and certainly not synchronized), really, except when people like Sascha Baron-Cohen are highlighting their racism and anti-Semitism.
ReplyDeleteWe're allowed to do synchronized apologizing and sucking up on film, though.
OT: Interesting article about a Jewish woman who married an Afghan and moves to Afghanistan. I was about to type "Hilarity ensued", but realized that back when she married him it was probably pre-internet and harder to find good information on how other cultures live.
ReplyDeleteFor Migrants, New Land of Opportunity Is Mexico New York Times, September 22 2013. Its interesting article mentions French and Spaniards going to Mexico for business start ups and film career. There are even Koreans now in Mexico and Mexicans into a Korean dance. Its not just the deported parents with their American born kids and American seniors but even some younger American Mexican or not moving to US style business like exercise places that appeal to the foreign born. Maybe, in 10 years if Mexico keeps going with new blood, things will be a little better and less of their people wanting to moved here. Still currently against legalization but this is the first time I think in the long term they will not want to come since even foreigners are more interested in the country than in the past.
ReplyDeleteWe are trained from kindergarten not to think about India's historic unity as a nation/ethny.
ReplyDeleteWhen was this "historic unity"? I didn't' know there was one.
Globalization has been great for Monterrey, but now our children are citizen of the world, more than Monterrey.
ReplyDeleteProgress brings foreigners to Mexico but we are also seeing our young not just go west, to Asia, but go everywhere in the world. Here in Monterrey, where migrating to the states or elsewhere was not that common before, we are seeing our educated and trained people, our children, becoming citizens of the world more often.
A good friend commented on how now every family has someone living and practicaly staying abroad. Just like those famous towns of pasaporteados (migrant workers), something that Monterrey was not.
We are paying the price of doing well.
"For Migrants, New Land of Opportunity Is Mexico New York Times, September 22 2013. Its interesting article mentions French and Spaniards going to Mexico for business start ups and film career."
ReplyDeleteOnly a Frenchman could help his film career by moving to Mexico.
Can you even imagine the uproar if, say, a lower class white neighborhood in Chicago were to do this? It's political organization. It's community. It's incredibly effective. And it's so offensive to the elites you'd get shut down if they knew about it.
ReplyDelete^^Protective neighborhood patrols in CHnese settlements in the US are nothing new. Such patrols actually started in the 19th cetury when WHITE thugs were terrorizing CHinese communities. Back then some WHITE elites cheered the white thugs on, commending them for controlling or liquidating "the Yellow Peril". See the book Driven Out: The Forgotten War Against CHinese Americans by Jean Pfaelzer
I wonder if low class whites who are Democratic voters, such as in tough egg neighborhoods in Boston, can get away with more than low class whites in red states?
Historically they have gotten away with a lot, including wholesale murderous lynchings and massacres of Blacks and Asians.
notsaying says:
Call me blind but I do not see why anybody in America couldn't do what these people did.
Sure and protective neighborhood associations in black neighbrhoods are old news. Just research the many block and neigborhood watch associations in the predominantly black middle class sections of Queens fir example.
During the black riots in London lower mid class whites in a white flight neighbourhood in SE London organised a community lookout group, the media condemnation far exceeded that of the actual rioters. The right wing press noted that a Sikh group organised to protect their area received only praise.
What's not mentioned above is that thugs of the white "lookout group" were also attacking or harassing innocent black people who were passing thru on their way to work and home.
. When I was a kid blacks being chased out of and sometimes being killed around there was a common occurrence.
^^Indeed. White "neighborhood associations" have a long history of murdering minorities, and along history of thuggery. In 19th century California they harassed Asians constanty, culminating in massacress and murder. In Boston they lynched and murdered blacks with impunity for such "crimes" as passing thru on the way to work. Long before "white flight" there was "black flight"- peaceful long-term black residents moved out, when the Irish moved in. See Thomas Sowell's book Ethnic America.
Big Bill says:
This is the "Rational Robber" defense. It is used quite successfully to defend black rapists, robbers and murderers from hate crimes charges.
Is this like the "rational racism" defense white right wingers often use to justify wholwsale murder of Asians in the past and lynchings and murders of black people (incuding pregnant women), some of the "crime" of being a relative of another lynch victims?
Imagine arguing in court that, as a white man, you deliberately go out and rape young black girls because (1) they are socially powerless, (2) they give it up without a fight, (3) they are easily intimidated, and (4) no one will believe them ... as compared with white girls, that is
You are right. Such scenarios are primarily in the white imagination, like the so-called "rational robber" defense offered by fantasy white prosecutors
For Migrants, New Land of Opportunity Is Mexico New York Times, September 22 2013
ReplyDeleteThen the New York Times should have no problems with the US deporting Hispanic illegal immigrants to Mexico.
In NYC, Hasidic Jews have vigilante groups that harass blacks and Hispanics who wonder into their neighborhoods after dark. The media, police and politicians treat these groups with great deference, although some of the vigilantes have got in trouble a few times.
ReplyDeleteIf white gentiles did this then they would be getting into trouble all of the time.
Steve, even Bloomberg could not get away with Stop and Frisk for long
ReplyDeleteHe did get away with it for a good part of 12 years.
Having lived in Monterrey for 5 1/2 years, I am continually amazed at the contrasts in this country. We have high-speed internet and state of the art highways. We also have almost 50% of our neighbors struggling everyday in abysmal poverty. The education our children receive at private schools here is wonderful (many schools have trilingual programs), yet public schools are depressing. I love the pace of life here, and Mexicans are enthusiastic entrepreneurs at every level; from tiny restaurants on the family's patio or even in the cochera, to the huge start-ups reported on in this article. The North-American press does not do a good job reporting on Mexico's crime/security problem, and my experience has been consistent with most posters here: If one is not involved In illicit activities, chances of becoming a statistic are no greater than if one goes to a movie premier at a Denver theater. We North-Americans, often disdainful of Mexican corruption and poverty, should be reminded that this country has accomplished national health care, and it actually works! Like anything involving the Mexican gov't, it can be frustrating and confusing, but you can take your kid to a doctor on Saturday morning and receive the basis care he or she needs. This is a growing, capable, country. At the same time, it is a corrupt, backward, enigmatic country. We're happy we're here, and hopeful for tomorrow in Mexico,
ReplyDeleteWell Reagan would not have like this but if the moderate left was supported in Mexico and Central America under his watch maybe we would have half the immigrants since the poor Mexicans could have a welfare state at Home. Now, they get government health care which they have to run to the emergency room in the States. In fact, Spain and Portugal seem to have developed under the moderate left prior to their economic woes today, the harder right didn't help them that much.
SandroMenotti - "What's not mentioned above is that thugs of the white "lookout group" were also attacking or harassing innocent black people who were passing thru on their way to work and home."
ReplyDeleteI don't know where Sandro got this from, but it's nonsense. I followed the London riots pretty closely on police blogs (most of which have now been shut down) - the comments were like a huge live news feed - and there were no reports of this.
What WAS reported in liberal media was that white people coming together to protect life and property, as they did in Eltham and Enfield, were ipso facto suspect - probably EDL or "white vigilante groups" - whereas the Turks of Green Lane or the Sikhs who were photographed (Daily Mail) carrying swords were heroes.
North London Turks are not renowned for their adherence to PC norms, to put it mildly.
Meanwhile, elsewhere in London, middle-aged, overweight white women were being forced to strip naked - just for the humiliation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_anti-African_protests
ReplyDelete"Call me blind but I do not see why anybody in America couldn't do what these people did."
ReplyDeleteYou're blind.
Any non-liberal white people who tried to organize a *public* collective defence like this would be labelled nazi vigilantes by the media and closed down by the police.
The only way regular white people could organize local collective defence like this is by stealth.
.
"Steve, even Bloomberg could not get away with Stop and Frisk for long. Its dead. As is NYC, a walking-dead city. Bill deBlasio has pledged to keep Stop and Frisk dead, dead, dead Jim."
Bloomberg could have got away with it - and so could everybody else - if the New York media told the truth about black crime.
It's only because the New York media covers up black crime that the New York media had to try and get the police to ethnically cleanse black people from Manhattan (where the New York media live) without anyone noticing.
The reason being - as mentioned earlier) - that the PC heirarchy is maintained on the basis of relative group victimhood and so to maintain the PC heirarchy and the deadly and potentially genocidal grip it has around the neck of white people the new york media have to lie through their teeth about black crime.
.
"What's not mentioned above is that thugs of the white "lookout group" were also attacking or harassing innocent black people who were passing thru on their way to work and home."
That's what was claimed anyway.
Attacking and chasing away any black faces certainly happened in all the Kurdish, Turkish, Tamil etc ethnic enclaves where ethnically-based vigilante groups sprang up to patrol their own enclave during the riots.
None of those enclaves had 100s of police detached from the riots to go attack them though - only the white people.
.
SandraMenotti
Do you have a problem with the distinction between past and present tense or are you saying white people have no right to defend themselves in the present because of sins you claim other white people committed in the past?
If so does this principle of collective guilt apply to every ethnic group or just white people?
"I don't know where Sandro got this from, but it's nonsense"
ReplyDeletePC types put up a lot of made-up nonsense on twitter about torchlight parades etc.
^^Protective neighborhood patrols in CHnese settlements in the US are nothing new. Such patrols actually started in the 19th cetury when WHITE thugs were terrorizing CHinese communities. Back then some WHITE elites cheered the white thugs on, commending them for controlling or liquidating "the Yellow Peril". See the book Driven Out: The Forgotten War Against CHinese Americans by Jean Pfaelzer
ReplyDeleteYou say all that like it's a bad thing. At least the Chinese can rely on their gov't to keep out whites for them, so they don't have to form gangs to protect their own territory from immivasion.
What's not mentioned above is that thugs of the white "lookout group" were also attacking or harassing innocent black people who were passing thru on their way to work and home.
Now now, be honest; that's always mentioned, even if it isn't true. Or if it isn't mentioned, the threat of same is held up as omnipresent and far more important than what anyone else did.
I don't know where Sandro got this from, but it's nonsense. I followed the London riots pretty closely on police blogs (most of which have now been shut down) - the comments were like a huge live news feed - and there were no reports of this.
See? Didn't happen...got mentioned.
What WAS reported in liberal media was that white people coming together to protect life and property, as they did in Eltham and Enfield, were ipso facto suspect - probably EDL or "white vigilante groups" - whereas the Turks of Green Lane or the Sikhs who were photographed (Daily Mail) carrying swords were heroes.
See? Two for two. Race realism = predictive power.
^^Indeed. White "neighborhood associations" have a long history of murdering minorities, and along history of thuggery. In 19th century California they harassed Asians constanty, culminating in massacress and murder. In Boston they lynched and murdered blacks with impunity for such "crimes" as passing thru on the way to work. Long before "white flight" there was "black flight"- peaceful long-term black residents moved out, when the Irish moved in. See Thomas Sowell's book Ethnic America.
Sounds like you'd be safer back home, far away from all the wicked white people. Where the gov't keeps the whites out and the citizenry doesn't have to lift a finger.
Is this like the "rational racism" defense white right wingers often use to justify wholwsale murder of Asians in the past
Lol, there was no wholesale murder. Unless you mean what the Mongols did to Europe.
Yellows are guilty of wholesale lying, though. And racism and malice, of course. How is one welcomed into a strange land (in a way one's homeland would never reciprocate), only to turn around and attack the people who built the country, without racism and malice?
Or maybe it's just envy, along the lines of what Ben Franklin said about how to get people to like you.
VDare just had an article about white working class resistance to Chinese immigration in the 19th century:
ReplyDeleteForgotten Victims—American Workers Immiserated By Chinese Immigration In Nineteenth Century California
There is a passage in one of P.J. O'Rourke's books about his visit to one of the war zone ghettoes in Northern Ireland. He asked his guide if the problem was drugs - or also drugs. He was told no. Drug dealers weren't tolerated by the IRA. If one showed up the lads (neighborhood fathers) would give the malefactor a proper thrashing. No drug dealers.
ReplyDeleteThe drug problem like most other neighborhood crime problems is just a symptom of the social disorganization of a community. Every ethnic community has a majority of decent adult men who good easily clean the streets of vice - if they wished and if they could hold a meeting or print a flyer. I expect the Chinese will not have many more such incidents.
Albertosaurus
ReplyDeleteI don't know where Sandro got this from, but it's nonsense. I followed the London riots pretty closely on police blogs (most of which have now been shut down) - the comments were like a huge live news feed - and there were no reports of this.
I didn't follow the riots very closely, and even I can recall seeing news footage (from Russia Today, I believe) of white vigilantes harassing a black guy who happened to be on a bus passing through their neighborhood.
"Flushing used to a a very Jewish neighborhood."
ReplyDeleteItalian with some other traditional NYC white ethnics like Irish, Jews, and Greeks.
Jewish neighborhoods usually become black, Italian neighborhoods usually become Asian.
Re: Kitty Genovese, the media omitted that she was a lesbian and her lesbianism was known to her neighbors. Thus the general sentiment of the neighbors was that she got what she deserved. Yet another reason they did nothing - they thought she was trash.
Today we'll be getting the measure of the "tough egg" neighborhoods in Boston with a mayoral runoff election. Current mayor, the sub-literate Thomas "Mumbles" Menino, is retiring, so for the first time in 20 years there's and open election. The top 4 in the polls are 3 guys with the names of Conley, Connolly and Walsh, with a black, hyphenated, community organizer woman carrying the backing of all the local press. Top 2 go to the final election, and smart money says that the 3 Irishmen split the white vote and the black woman gets into the final. There we'll see if Southie, Charlestown, Hyde Park and West Roxbury have been white flighted to the extent that a black woman can get elected.
ReplyDelete