Beginning with Ronald Reagan, each American President has been subjected to a full court press to pardon the traitor Jonathan Pollard. Each has dropped the subject when fully apprised of the magnitude of his crimes.
What's fascinating is how many of the most respectable Jewish organizations are so drawn to the worst possible individual to champion. Jonathan Pollard was a cokehead who offered to sell secrets to Pakistan and South Africa as well as Israel. It's almost as if the outrageousness of the endless campaign for the traitor's release is intended to provoke gentiles into reflecting poorly upon Jews, thus generating more donations to the Jewish organizations from Jews worried about anti-semitism.
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Or maybe we've reached a point when our government is no longer our government, so Israel can get away with anything.
""""It's almost as if the outrageousness of the endless campaign for the traitor's release is intended to provoke gentiles into reflecting poorly upon Jews, thus generating more donations to the Jewish organizations from Jews worried about anti-semitism.""""
Bingo. In some ways, its akin to black groups always seeking a pardon for Abu Mumia Jamal or Tookie Williams the cop killers. Whenever these requests are turned down, the NAACP and other leading groups can then turn to their constituents and say with a straight face, "See? How much more proof do we need that America's racist? All they want to do is to keep those freedom fighting political prisoners behind bars indefinitely."
Its the same type of thing. Two different minorities feigning outrage and whipping up their bases in the process, presumably in part to receive donations in return since their contributions can serve as a conduit to releasing their outrage vs the majority (e.g. white males; white gentiles et al) of America's most dominant group.
Movie No 1: French movie--apparently last part focusses on Pollard--1994 Cannes entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Patriots_(film)
Possible Movie No 2
http://www.fandango.com/jonathanpollard:americanfallguy_v327004/castandcrew
Movie made by Pollard supporters
http://www.jonathanpollard.org/video.htm
So, am i correct in assuming that Isteve readers are for a life sentence for Snowden?
So, am i correct in assuming that Isteve readers are for a life sentence for Snowden?
No, we are not. Most feel Snowden to be a patriot. I cannot believe you would compare the two. Pollard betrayed the USA for monetary gain. The information he leaked ended up in Soviet hands, a real enemy of the USA, which put our defensive posture at risk. Pollard acted as a patriot for a nation other than his own.
Snowden did not seek monetary gain and actually jeopardized his future by doing what he did. Rather than giving defense secrets to a foreign enemy, he highlighted the abuses of the American government on its people, and the trashing of our constitutional principles. Snowden acted in every sense as an American patriot.
Additionally, it is not too difficult to imagine the Founding Fathers looking favorably upon Snowden who exposed one of their greatest fears, a government drunk with power. Pollard, on the other hand, exhibited a loyalty to a foreign nation, something George Washington counseled against.
Pollard is a piece of sh*t, and many of his supporters are sleaze bags, but Pollard should be released. He has served enough time. He has been in jail for nearly 30 years. Anything more at this point is gratuitous cruelty. The CIA and their congressional boosters claim that the damage done by Pollard was so severe as to be immeasurable. I don't buy it. The CIA's (yeah, I know it was Naval intelligence, same genre) competency has been exaggerated for decades. I trust neither their competency nor their patriotism nor their truthfulness. American liberty is threatened more by the intelligence agencies than any number of Pollards.
And bear in mind, if they do this to Pollard, what will they do to the likes of us if we step over the line?
Polanski
Those Jewish organizations are fairly obsolete at this point. The American communities they used to represent no longer exist. So they're desperate for a cause--any cause that can be tangentially related.
Pollard's punishment too severe? Execution would not have been too severe.
Pollard is a piece of sh*t, and many of his supporters are sleaze bags, but Pollard should be released. He has served enough time. He has been in jail for nearly 30 years. Anything more at this point is gratuitous cruelty.
Let's say that he has served enough time and should be released, the question remains: is his release an issue so important that it deserves a great national crusade???
He's a bad person, so why do you care? Would you crusade about him if he were Gentile?
I think you miss the point somewhat. Pollard supporters make the following arguments.
1) Pollard has been sentenced far more (about 20 times) more harshly than the average US person convicted of passing secrets to allied countries.
2) Pollard has actually been sentenced more harshly than the average person convicted of passing secrets to enemy countries.
3) America has over the last year forced Israel to release over 3,000 prisoners including child-murderers for no reason other than to have fake vanity negotiations that make Kerry feel like a somebody.
4) Pollard received an unfairly punitive sentence from an angry black judge who wanted to punish him for Israel's collusion with Aouth Africa.
5) The only reason Pollard has not been released is because Americas wants to *prove* that it is not beholden to Israel, which is unfair and, in any case, doesn't seem to be working.
Perhaps you could address these points.
My observation is that Pollard support is particularly high among very right wing Israelis who want (and have been saying so since the 80s) an end to American aid and have undisguised contempt for persons like Stanley Fisher, the ADL etc. Strictly speaking this is not relevant, but you do seem to mixing up issues somewhat. In general, it is a bad thing for people to mix up criminal cases with their variegated political passions. Objectively, coldly, according to the way criminal law is conducted in the US he should have been released a long time ago. Of course, according to other systems he should have been hung, drawn and quartered.
Release him into the custody of Palestine
The Free Pollard movement at this point is all about generating the perception of antisemitism.
If the President acts to free Pollard, he will be "admitting" the antisemitism of the original sentence.
If the President does not free Pollard, he is demonstrating continued antisemitism.
Helps with fundraising and community cohesion.
Parole is for criminals.
Pardons and commutations are for Prisoners Of Zion.
They want a "moral victory", if they can get one.
73Owl
Anonymous wrote:
"No, we are not. Most feel Snowden to be a patriot."
I think I agree with this statement.
But what gets me about this is the fact that the system he has warned about has been developing under administrations of both major parties with nary a hickup to slow things down.
Hard to say when it started exactly. For the sake of argument I'll say Clinton.
But whether you are a fire breathing Berkeley liberal, or the hardest core conservative from Alabama, no one seems interested in stopping this thing.
So where does that leave everyone? Nowhere. There is nothing anyone can do.
Guess it is my subject for harping today, but having your party win a generational victory at the polls isn't going to do anything to change any of this.
And to be honest, what effect has Snowden had? He is a refugee, and not one thing has changed here.
Wonder if he would do it all over again, if he could go back in time.
I have a theory: By tenaciously championing Pollard, the Israelis are sending a message to their countless assets in the U.S. government that they won't quit on them if they're caught.
1/ '... so Israel can get away with anything.'
That's been my point about all these comments. If 'Israel can get get away with anything' then Pollard would have been freed long ago.
The inability of people here to accept the fact that Pollard isn't going anywhere is the reason behind the quantity of comments here (and Steve's constant mention of him).
And its driving people here crazy (is that bad?)
2/ At least since the conviction of Joe Hill there have been movements to free various prisoners. Nothing particularly new here. The only big difference with Pollard is that Pollard doesn't claim innocence.
I would love to see an article about the 'Free Mumia' movement here and see the lack of comments.
Daniel:"And bear in mind, if they do this to Pollard, what will they do to the likes of us if we step over the line?"
If someone who comments on this blog does what Pollard did, I would want him to get life in prison.
Gabriel Martindale:"1) Pollard has been sentenced far more (about 20 times) more harshly than the average US person convicted of passing secrets to allied countries."
Pollard was not an "average" traitor. He supplied vital secrets regarding our nuclear arsenal.
Martindale:"2) Pollard has actually been sentenced more harshly than the average person convicted of passing secrets to enemy countries."
Again, Pollard is not average. He should have been executed.
Anonymous:"No, we are not. Most feel Snowden to be a patriot."
I don't. A patriot would have stayed in the US and accepted punishment. Snowden is a simpering SWPL type. He is not George Washington.
Its amazing the Jewish supporters of Pollard (are there any other kind?) instead of being ashamed of being associated with a Cokehead, traitor for money, seem to regard him as some kind of hero/martyr.
And of course, for only one reason, because he's a fellow Jew. It says a lot about Jewish-Americans.
4) Pollard received an unfairly punitive sentence from an angry black judge who wanted to punish him for Israel's collusion with Aouth Africa.
Some dog whistling asshole trying to get isteve readers to support freeing Pollard by positioning him as a white man victimized by an angry black man.
Do you have any evidence to back up your claims?
This is what you need to know about Pollard: He's been imprisoned for so long not because of his sins, but because of the sins of the white elite. He's the one little issue where they can pretend that they're not wholly owned subsidiaries of the Israeli/Jewish lobby. This helps keep the disastrous, cataclysmic results of that ownership to traditional America out of open discussion. They can then continue with their lucrative career: selling out their nation and civilization for cash. Just look at the obscene spectacle of Sheldon Adelson's recent "Jewish Primary" (some openly called it that). A man shopping for a war against Iran and finding plenty of takers among the treasonous scum at the top of the Republican party. They're not shocked at the enormity of Pollard's crime, it's irrelevant to them except to the degree that the scope of that crime would have exposed the subservience of the elite to the Jewish lobby had they freed him earlier.
Conservatism and the Right always criticize their enemies as if they were worried about the moral and political souls of those enemies. It's always "that's hypocrisy" instead of the effects on the victims of those enemies. Jews being conned out of money aren't the victims, Americans being conned out of their nation are.
"1) Pollard has been sentenced far more (about 20 times) more harshly than the average US person convicted of passing secrets to allied countries.
2) Pollard has actually been sentenced more harshly than the average person convicted of passing secrets to enemy countries."
Given all the aid and support Israel receives, I see nothing wrong a priori with holding their treachery (and in particular, that of the US traitors who are paid to execute it) to a higher standard. And yes, selling secrets to the Soviets – which Steve already noted was the only way to make use of the stolen information – is treachery.
If Israel wants to be on the same level as other countries in the matter of espionage sentencing, let's first make some corresponding changes regarding financial aid.
Pollard should be released. He has served enough time.
I would be less concerned if a near-death Pollard were released into, say, hospice care. (And I mean, actual near-death -- not like that of the Libyan terrorist the UK released only to have him make a miraculous turnaround). However, we all know Pollard is getting a hero's welcome the minute his plane touches down in Tel Aviv. Those clamoring on his behalf should at the least admit that he does not deserve that, if we are going to talk about unfair treatment.
3) America has over the last year forced Israel to release over 3,000 prisoners including child-murderers for no reason other than to have fake vanity negotiations that make Kerry feel like a somebody.
Does America force Israel to accept $3 billion per year in direct payments as well as billions more in loan guarantees, free trade agreements and the like? If Israel doesn't want to be beholden to Uncle Sam, don't take the money. That's it. That's the secret. Cut the string and it will set you free.
But then "outrageousness" -- aka chutzpa -- is a cherished Ashkenazi what? personality trait? cultural value? There are numerous examples of "outrageous" Jews even though they constitute a minute fraction of the Jewish population. But sore thumbs stick out. It is part of the burden of being Jewish (actually Ashkenazi/Sephardic -- I'm not sure Middle Eastern Jews share this traits). Anyway, I could compile a long list of examples, starting, I suppose with Freud. Others? Well, the pioneers of mass-media pornography in America, Alan Dershowitz in the O.J. Simpson trial, that shmuck who made the movie Borat, Philip Roth, the movie director of Blazing Saddles, even that Jewish pioneer of Opera in France who, according to Sciama's recent television documentary, wrote an Opera featuring a chorus of Nuns dancing orgiastically on stage (they actually show footage of a modern performance).
All that said, I could probably compile an even longer list of urbane Ashkenazi gentlemen, guys like Milton Friedman, Lionel Trillings, Irving Krystal, my rabbi, Abraham Feinstein, and many, many more.
Of course, 99.99% of Jews everywhere are just ordinary people with slightly above average intelligence, what Theodore Hertzl reffered to contemtuosly as "mediocrities." Oh, well.
>American liberty is threatened more by the intelligence agencies than any number of Pollards.
>And bear in mind, if they do this to Pollard, what will they do to the likes of us if we step over the line?<
Wow. I can smell the flop sweat through my monitor.
>Perhaps you could address these points.<
Sure thing. 1, 2, and 3: the crimes are not equivalent; 4: question-begging ("unfairly punitive"); 5: speculation.
You know, I might bite if someone made a strong argument for the following swap: Pollard for Vanunu.
Pollard's continued incarceration dissuades other Jews who might be seduced into spying for Israel. Jews in sensitive positions can tell their Mossad-would-be-handlers "no" with authority while pointing out Pollard's life imprisonment. Freeing this man sends the wrong message. He approached Pakistan for $ for crying out loud.
BTW.....for Steve: CBSnews.com has a display of portraits of world leaders as painted by George W. Bush. I think Bush exacted a little revenge with a couple of these paintings.One subject in particular is depicted as positively rat-like.
The list of facts at the following link is essential to a reasoned discussion of Pollard's case:
"99.99% of Jews everywhere are just ordinary people with slightly above average intelligence."
It must rankle that they fall short of the ability levels prevalent in Lake Wobegon by such a tiny margin.
All that matters to Jewish groups is that he is a member of the tribe.
David said: Wow. I can smell the flop sweat through my monitor.
Hunsdon said: Am I the only one that immediately thought of Albert Brooks in Broadcast News?
Anonydroid at 7:01 AM said: I don't. A patriot would have stayed in the US and accepted punishment.
Hunsdon said: If Snowden had stayed in the US he would have disappeared to Guantanamo. Poof! Just like that. Like a fist disappears, when you open your fingers.
It would really help if you actually named these respectable Jewish organizations calling for Pollard's release. Otherwise what you write is simply baseless slurs.
The Forward is against the release:
http://forward.com/articles/195673/dont-pardon-jonathan-pollard/
I agree that the issue shouldn't even be raised - but maybe it's a false flag constantly being raised by anti-Semites to bait Jews?
Two can play at this game.
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