March 7, 2009

Interethnic marriage declining for Asians and Latinos

A couple of years after I wrote about Qian and Lichter's study here, Annie Gowen reports today in the Washington Post, "More Young Adults Are Seeking Partners of Same Ethnicity:"

But scholars delving into the U.S. Census have found a surprising converse trend. Although interracial marriages overall have increased, the rate of Hispanics and Asians marrying partners of other races declined in the past two decades. This suggests that the growing number of immigrants is having a profound effect on coupling, they say.

The number of native- and foreign-born people marrying outside their race fell from 27 to 20 percent for Hispanics and 42 to 33 percent for Asians from 1990 to 2000, according to Ohio State University sociologist Zhenchao Qian, who co-authored a study on the subject. The downward trend continued through last year, Qian said.


In 2007, I blogged:
Back in 2000, I wrote an article for VDARE.com entitled "Immigration Is Retarding Interracial Marriage." That's visible in Southern California, where Asians used to be widely dispersed all over the suburbs, and thus tended to marry the whites around them. Now, however, Asians tend to cluster in the San Gabriel Valley, and you see a higher proportion of Asian-Asian couples than you did a quarter of a century ago. This has implications for assimilation.


Now, a new study of Census data fro 1990 and 2000 confirms that trend:

Immigration played a key role in unprecedented declines in interracial and inter-ethnic marriage in the United States during the 1990s, according to a new sociological study. The findings, published in “Social Boundaries and Marital Assimilation: Interpreting Trends in Racial and Ethnic Intermarriage,” suggest that the growing number of Hispanic and Asian immigrants to the United States has led to more marriages within these groups, and fewer marriages between members of these groups and whites.

“These declines in intermarriages are a significant departure from past trends,” said Zhenchao Qian, co-author of the study and professor of sociology at Ohio State University. “The decline reflects the growth in the immigrant population during the 90s; more native-born Asian Americans and Hispanics are marrying their foreign-born counterparts.”

I imagine that the clustering of Southern California's Asians in the San Gabriel Valley is motivated in part by Asian parents hoping their children wind up with Asian spouses.

My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer

73 comments:

rec1man said...

In the inter-ethnic marriages,
white men will always get ethnic women, whereas,

east asian men seem to be the losers and will likely end up as the old chinese bachelors in chinatowns of the 19th century

The japanese immigrants solved this problem by importing 'picture brides'

and most ethnic men seem to do a variant of the same thing,
because they can get a higher quality ethnic bride whereas if they are insistent on a white bride, they can only get a trailer park class woman

a_c said...

I had no idea the numbers were so high for Asians. 33-40%!

Anonymous said...

I would be interested in seeing updated AMERICAN BORN ethnic numbers. Does immigration change American born patterns?

Wiki gives some numbers based on a Washington Post story from a decade ago.

"36% of young Asian Pacific American men born in the United States married white women, and 45% of U.S.-born Asian Pacific American women took white husbands"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage#Asian_and_Caucasian

From personal observation I don't think the numbers for American kids have changed much.

And also I'm interested Steve in your take on the relatively narrow gap between Asian male/white female marriages v. Asian female/white male among American borns.

bjdouble said...

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/lax/979427049.html

Asian guy blasts Asian girls, very funny

MacSweeney said...

rec1man, trailer trash women are the LEAST likely to go for an Asian.

Get Your Chicklets said...

Steve, things are happening very fast on the race issue across Europe.

Did you see this article from last week that says Geert Wilders' party is the most popular in the Netherlands?

Wilders' Freedom Party leads polls

And the second most popular party in the Netherlands is also radical "right wing" according to the article.

Looks like by 2015 there is going to be a wide belt of white racialist blood & soil governments across Europe. After all there is a belt of non-white racialist governments across Asia, the Middle East, Africa and even South America. So it will actually be a return to normality.

But this is UNFORGIVEABLE HATE CRIME in the eyes of the Western Elites.

Who's going to win this struggle, Steve? The tiny EU government and courtier media elite determined to deracinate and marginalize the native population? Should I put my money (uh, my euros) on them?

Yes. Who will be forced to flee their respective nation first, Steve? Sarkozy or Wilders? What say ye?

Anonymous said...

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1090

"In the inter-ethnic marriages,
white men will always get ethnic women"

The UK gathers detailed stats and shows this isn't true. Outmarriage for South Asians is low especially the women. I don't know all the reasons for this but does it have anything to do with a strong cultural tendency to stick together?

Another partial explanation is the low ranking of both South Asian men and women on the sexiness hierarchy.

Get Your Chicklets said...

Steve, I think you will appreciate this: Coulter's funny "massive status anxiety" line in this article:

OLBERMANN'S PLASTIC IVY

Again I got the link via Lawrencio Auster. Btw on VFR he's got yet another amusing reference to you being (frustratingly) accurate: The Steve Sailer Theory of Liberalism seems to have surprising staying power! According to Auster you're like the viagra-pumped retiree of political blogs.

Look for the blog entry in Auster's March 5 section.

Yes. Status IS perhaps the key mover of politics and the base motivator in the human psyche. Way to go, Steve. Especially in the female psyche. I have been using my wife's computer for a few days her homepage is yahoo.com. The "news" headlines on this "gateway" page consist of 98% female status competition gossip. It might as well be US magazine or People magazine.

Coincidentally $13 stock Yahoo is grasping for a suitor after the also struggling Microsoft pseudo-bailed on the faux acquisition.

Isn't this fun, Steve? Steve Ballmer, Jerry Yang, Hank Greenburg, and Old What's His Name at GE? Were they all just a bunch of dickheads? Were they just status game experts?

Now that everyone is circling the drain I appreciate your friend Denninger's blog. Yes. Reappraisals are in order.

What I want to know is --when the Dow and the S&P return to 1980's levels and the U.S.A plummets to subsistence levels-- will it all have been just a dream?

Anonymous said...

I find this to be quite an unusual trend. I guess your supposition that it is the result of a larger and more concentrated population of Asians in parts of America is the best explanation.

One thing I have noticed in Australia since the start of the new century is the noticeable increase in Asian male/White female interracial relationships. These relations struck me as being quite rare when I was an adolescent, at the end of the 1990's - in my personal experience, enough to often occasion audible comments or indiscrete looks from anonymous strangers while in public.

Walking around downtown Sydney today, however, I see just as many, if not more, AM/WF couples than WM/AF couples . What's also quite noticeable is that amongst AM/WF pairings, the male is almost always born and raised in Australia (I haven't interrogated every single couple that I've encountered, but there are always tell-tale giveaways like style of dress, body-posture and gait), and both members of the couple are discernably middle-class (again, sartorial taste). Amongst WM/AF couples, however, it's often quite obvious that the Asian female is a recent immigrant, possibly from a more humble socio-economic background.

My tentative theory for the increase in AM/WF couples in Australia is directly related to another recent, highly-salient change, and that is the increase in the average height and stature of Asian males.

I'm about 6 foot 2, and although I'm usually a little heavier than I should be, I'm guessing that my natural body weight is about 90kg. In the late 90's, I almost never saw another Asian guy of remotely similar build - if I did, it would be enough to cause us both to do a double-take.

Now, I quite frequently see younger Asian guys who are my build, if not taller and broader. I'm guessing that this is the result of changes in nutrition (I am about a foot taller than both my parents, who are Southern Chinese). Either that, or there are a lot more Northern Chinese/Koreans in Australia's Asian population than there were at end of the 20th century.

There probably other contributing factors - in the 90's, Asians were perhaps still associated with the large-scale wave of immigration by boat-people at the end of the Vietnam, which caused a great deal of resentment in the mainstream community. Asian crime (mainly in the Vietnamese community) was also a huge topic in the media for much of the decade.

Today, however, the unfavourable attention of the popular media has been almost completely usurped by the Lebanese community. Asian immigrants are generally perceived as middle class and untroublesome.

Ivy League Bastard said...

Other contributing factors:

-- wealth and status are more available within the immigrant group than they used to be (and for some ethnicities, more available than by marrying whites). This make more of the in-group men attractive as marriage partners to women who in earlier times would have found those qualities in whites. Instead of dating a Chinese guy who works in the stereotypically unsexy family business, a Chinese woman can now date, within the race, men with law or business degrees, doctors and engineers, etc. Those may have always existed to some degree but now they are far more common.

-- air travel, internet, and telephony facilitate more contact with the foreign branches of the family. Increased wealth (more visits by relatives) and longevity in the foreign countries (more relatives to visit, with more appealing lives) have the same effect.

-- diversity/multiculti politics promotes identity neuroses among the children of the immigrants. They speak English and often no other language, but the Obama-like unease about their insufficiently ethnic group identity can often be salved by marrying within the group.

Concerned said...

"36% of young Asian Pacific American men born in the United States married white women, and 45% of U.S.-born Asian Pacific American women took white husbands"

change that to 36% of young AP American men WHO MARRIED AT ALL married white women....etc.

Marriage participation rates here are the key. Are marriage participation rates for AP women different from that of AP men? I think so.

Also, from what I see, the most popular couple is East Asian woman/white man. Go to any major city and open your eyes.

Anonymous said...

Where's testing99 when you need him??

headache said...

Get Your Chicklets said
Now that everyone is circling the drain I appreciate your friend Denninger's blog. Yes. Reappraisals are in order.

Must agree. iSteve and Denninger have got to be the hottest blogs around these days. Because they give us the facts without any music.

ironrailsironweights said...

The UK gathers detailed stats and shows this isn't true. Outmarriage for South Asians is low especially the women. I don't know all the reasons for this but does it have anything to do with a strong cultural tendency to stick together?

Many of the South Asians in Britain are Muslim, possibly a majority, and Islam greatly discourages out-marriage by women.

--

I have been using my wife's computer for a few days her homepage is yahoo.com. The "news" headlines on this "gateway" page consist of 98% female status competition gossip. It might as well be US magazine or People magazine.

Usually, but not always. As of this morning (Sunday, March 8) the lead story is last night's UFC fight :)

--

I'm about 6 foot 2, and although I'm usually a little heavier than I should be, I'm guessing that my natural body weight is about 90kg.

I noticed you used a combination of English and metric measurements. Is that normal practice in Australia?

--

Today, however, the unfavourable attention of the popular media has been almost completely usurped by the Lebanese community.

What is it with the Lebanese in Australia? They've been around for generations in the United States and are not considered troublesome at all, in fact they've become largely assimilated and are almost always considered white.

--

On a general note, the decline in outmarriage on the part of Asian women could be very bad news for one group, namely white nerds. Asian women by and large have a greater tolerance of nerdiness than do white women and therefore have served as essentially a last-resort pool of potential wives for white nerds. Now it sounds as if the pool will be drying up, which could mean more lonely nerds.

Peter

Anonymous said...

"because they can get a higher quality ethnic bride whereas if they are insistent on a white bride, they can only get a trailer park class woman"

Wonder why these relatively high status Asian males have so much trouble in the dating market when women outnumber men?

Slightly OT, I've heard that Asian males often indulge in stalking behavior when rebuffed.

Behavior that includes: ignoring the fact that the woman has indicated the relationship is over, sneaking into the beloved's home, placing a GPS on the beloved's car, hacking the beloved's computer, spreading nasty rumors, sometimes even resorting to killing the beloved's pet or the beloved herself.

How can such low testosterone beings be capable of such aggression?

Anonymous said...

Does this mean the old joke about UCLA standing for "Ugly Caucasians Living with Asians" no longer applies?

Svigor said...

The only thing I can add is that those strike me as huge drops.

Steve Wood said...

I would be interested in seeing updated AMERICAN BORN ethnic numbers. Does immigration change American born patterns?

I think this is the most salient question. To make sense of these numbers, you have to compare native-born Asian-Americans to each other, not to FOB immigrants.

FOBs are going to in-marry. That pretty much goes without saying. Their non-marital social activities are largely conducted within their own group, too. The large number of immigrants today compared to earlier times would, therefore, tend to lower the intermarriage numbers. The drop is only significant if American-born Asians are intermarrying less often than they used to.

(And, even then, you would have to look at individual groups rather than all Asians. Maybe Koreans, for example, are more willing - or less willing - to out-marry than Vietnamese. Also, We're talking about East Asians, right? My impression is that South Asians rarely marry outside their group, even those who were born here and who have American manners, style and build (thus largely erasing the "sexiness hierarchy" gap that another Anon mentioned).)

On the other hand, native-born Asian-Americans seem pretty well integrated into the larger society, at least those from middle-class backgrounds. I work on a college campus with lots of Asian students, and, as far as I can tell, they pretty much hang out with whites as much as with other Asians. I can't tell who's dating whom (to the extent college students even date anymore), though.

Now, I quite frequently see younger Asian guys who are my build, if not taller and broader. I'm guessing that this is the result of changes in nutrition (I am about a foot taller than both my parents, who are Southern Chinese). Either that, or there are a lot more Northern Chinese/Koreans in Australia's Asian population than there were at end of the 20th century.

The same thing has happened in the USA. On the above-mentioned college campus, there are plenty of robust Asian male students, of at least average height or better, with the same gym-toned bodies that most of their white friends have. The idea that all Asian guys are short and either scrawny or soft and feminine-looking is passe among those born in the States.

Anonymous said...


Amongst WM/AF couples, however, it's often quite obvious that the Asian female is a recent immigrant, possibly from a more humble socio-economic background.


As a white male who comes from a very humble background in Australia, but who now works in Silicon Valley and has a few achievements under his belt, I have a great deal of sympathy for women from humble socio-economic backgrounds.

They are absolute gems, more so than white Australian females who think the world owes them a living.

king obama said...

I figure most people on this blog will be happy about this result since most of the people on this site harbor ill will toward non-whites.

In the future, the USA is going to look like the former Yugoslavia: different ethnic groups battling each other for power and rarely marrying each other.

I guess the WN's might get their wish after all.

josh said...

If some Asian-inclined white men are bothered by this trend of Asian girls marrying their own at increasing rates,they may want to check out the Asian Playboy,pick-up artist Johnny Wolf,who has produced a dvd program called "How To Hook Up With Asian Girls." Am I the only one who is as upset by the Asians growing presence as I am by the Hispanics???

Tod said...

The all-Asian pairing of Japanese marrying Chinese, how rare?

The Round Peg said...

Please, for Asian American men, interracial marriage (and dating) is really not even an option as the opportunity is just not there. For Asian males, the decline in interracial marriage is really a non-issue if not an outright good news.

Among Asian Americans, interracial dating and marriage have always been a one-sided affair: it's all about Asian women and White men.

I worked as a waiter at a upscale restaurant in a young, hip, mixed neighborhood last summer, and I counted on average half a dozen Asian female-White male couples/customers every evening. I can distinctly remember the ONLY THREE Asian male-White female couples I met that entire summer. And I assure you it's not because of the lack of young Asian males or White females in that neighborhood.

For Asian males, the interracial dating and marriage thingy is a really a raw deal.

The Round Peg said...

And Asian males are one of the (if not the top) earner groups in America. They are among the best educated and earn/save the most money.

Yet oddly, wealth and status certainly have not translated into attracting mates for Asian men. Go figure.

jody said...

i continue to be baffled by how anybody can use the statistics for "latinos" like they mean anything. it's not a race, so doing any analysis does not make sense.

the US census still goes by self identification. it is less accurate than ever. literally millions of american indians identify themselves as "white" while literally millions of europeans and africans identify themselves as "latino". under the current US system, this will only get worse (less accurate) as time goes on.

as with many statistics, such as inflation and unemployment, the federal numbers are wrong. there are literally millions of marriages between two american indians from mexico where one puts "white" on the census while the other puts "hispanic". the official interracial marriage numbers are very inaccurate due to this. as a guy who actually dates second and third generation mexican women, i meet their families and relatives, i go to their functions, i see who the other brown people are dating. they're rarely white. what i see on the ground does not match up at all with the government's numbers.

notice, for instance, that every comment in this thread is about whites and asians dating each other. this is because, that is reality. that's what people see, and it's a real, common interracial couple.

yet in our daily lives we are positively surrounded by mexicans. there are 10 mexicans for every 1 asian. why don't people talk about something that should be everywhere, something that should be obvious? BECAUSE IT'S NOT THERE. people don't see whites and browns walking hand in hand with each other everywhere. white americans in their 20s and 30s BARELY DATE MEXICANS despite being completely surrounded by them. people talk about whites and asians dating because THAT HAPPENS. they can see it. the other couple, whites and browns, barely happens.

despite having lived in various cities PACKED with mexicans, steve's never once related an anecdote about a white-brown couple. he misses this GLARING contradiction of the official numbers just as badly as educrats miss the mountain of evidence on excellent asian students in all-asian schools. total strikeout. epic fail.

stari_momak said...

ill will toward non-whites

How often must it be said? Wanting to see your own demographic, ethnicity, race prosper in the societies it has created, to want cultural and biological continuity, is not ill-will. It is not hate. It is simply love of one's own. It is the exact practice that the Japanese, the Chinese (sorry, but a few thousands of round-eyes in Hong Kong or Beijing is really nothing, and they and their children will never get citizenship). If I don't invite my neighbor into my house do I bear him ill will?

At the very least, changing demographics mean loss of political power. See the fairly recent Orange County Board of Supervisors election where journeyman politican Tom Umberg -- UCLA grad, attorney, officer in the army reserve -- was defeated by not one but by two Vietnamese candidates. The winner had just about zero political or even work experience, was a UCI graduate, no military record. Strict ethnic voting. That is the future, and that alone should be reason enough for whites (EuroAmericans or whatever) to oppose continual immigration.

Anonymous said...

the decline in outmarriage on the part of Asian women could be very bad news for one group, namely white nerds. Asian women by and large have a greater tolerance of nerdiness than do white women

Not just tolerance, enthusiasm. Asian women love exactly the kind of white guys that white women hate the most - nerds.

All women are attracted to men who have more testosterone than the men of their own ethnic group. However, I have a feeling that there is an upper limit to the testosterone level that's acceptable to them. You CAN be too macho. Of course it's a sliding scale. What's macho to Japanese girls is often wimpy to white women and would of course be super-wimpy to black women. I'm sure it's all tied up with Rushton's r-K dichotomy.

Asian women aren't particularly attracted to black guys or even to macho white guys. Perhaps these men's testosterone levels are above the upper limit of acceptability for Asians. Nerdy white guys tend to be more masculine than Asian guys, but not too masculine (not too threatening to Asian girls) either - it's a sweet spot.

Perhaps in humanity's dark past there once existed a race of men who were so macho that if they were brought back into our world, they would exceed modern white women's upper limit of testosterone acceptability, thereby proving this little theory of mine. But of course we'll never know.

rec1man said...

Macsweeney wrote

rec1man, trailer trash women are the LEAST likely to go for an Asian.
--

I have seen lots of Jat Sikhs
middle-class to rich blue collar have trailer park white women as common law wives

Previously, they used to marry hispanic women
( google up Mexican hindu )

Anonymous said...

In the future, the USA is going to look like the former Yugoslavia: different ethnic groups battling each other for power and rarely marrying each other. - King Obama

Exactly! Its the realization of this grim future that propelled me toward the WN position.

I dont want that future. But I'm afraid liberals and certain ethnic groups dont seem to agree and are determined to push us there as fast as they can.

How is the worst case scenario to be avoided? Well, seems they don't have a clue on that other than the same old liberal BS that has never worked. But what they do know is that anyone who wants to head it off is plain old evil and must be silenced.

Anonymous said...

Lot's of white people intermarry with Mexicans and other Hispanics. Where I went to high school on the East Coast, about 10% of the students in my class were half white and half Puerto Rican.

Gaurav Ahuja said...

Some people did not read interethnic correctly. Interethnic could be intrarracial or interracial. Also, I am not happy about any group of non-Whites being a big presence in any part of America. In addition, North Asian women have got to stop acting like whores and actually marry within their race to people who are superior to the Whites they marry. Plus, it is immoral to marry and reproduce interracially. Everyone seems to want to deny that, but it is just on the other end of incest. Interracial marriages has its own gargantuan problems with higher rates of divorce, psychological problems, etc. Also, this imbalance clearly would not be there if it were not for interracial marriage. And I think feminism is hugely to blame for this racial imbalance of marriages as it helped to start giving incentives for White women to chase after Black or brown(mulatto, mestizo) men most noticeably in bars and clubs. Then, it may have set off a chain reaction-like signal for some White men to marry Oriental women because the shy White men could not find White women to have. I am sure all the pro-miscegenation people are dreaming of a cafe ole society where one reaches racial nirvana when there is so much mixing and you can't tell who is of what background. Heaven knows they have such awesome examples like India, Brazil, Egypt etc.

Victoria said...

". . . the rate of Hispanics and Asians marrying partners of other races declined in the past two decades."

This is good news, especially since the unmentioned race these Asians and Hispanics tend to marry is white. Could this mean that the white race will not disappear, after all? That blue eyes might prevail yet?

Some years ago, in an office discussion among several of us women, white, black, hispanic, we decided that things worked like this: White men would marry into any race, Hispanic men preferred women of their own Spanish-speaking background, and black men fervently hunted white women.

Here's an observation on that last point:
In a February 2008 commentary ("Changing Attitudes, Changing Lives") for Project 21, the black conservative B.B. Robinson laments the fact that black-white intermarriage is not as high as intermarriage between other groups. Although surveys show that in 1958, Americans' acceptance of black-white marriage was, in Robinson's words, "a dismal 4%," today that acceptance figure is up to 77%.

But this is just not good enough, according to Robinson, since it is "not as much as one would expect or want today." Robinson is hopeful that with the public's acceptance of Barack Obama as commander-in-chief will come a greater willingness on the part of whites to look to blacks "to fill the most cherished positions" in their lives.


And these are the hopes of a so-called CONSERVATIVE!

Anonymous said...

"Among Asian Americans, interracial dating and marriage have always been a one-sided affair: it's all about Asian women and White men."

It all depends on whether the men are immigrants or Americans. The majority of Asians are immigrants and its a one sided affair with them but with well settled groups such as the Japanese, I don't see them impeded when it comes to Asian male and white female pairings.

Anonymous said...

These AM/WF relationships seem to be most common, in my experience, in northwest cities such as Portland and Seattle. They're also much more common in northern California than southern.

RKU said...

despite having lived in various cities PACKED with mexicans, steve's never once related an anecdote about a white-brown couple.

Actually, this just isn't correct. Offhand, I can think of quite a lot of reasonably prominent Anglo/Latino intermarried couples, as well as quite a number among my own personal acquaintances. For example, in my native CA, I think there are something like 5 intermarried female Hispanics among just the 15-odd female Hispanic members of the Legislature+Congressional delegation, including Loretta Sanchez, the famous dimwit who might run for Governor in 2010. It's easier to tell with the females, since they're publicly described as being Latino but have Anglo last-names, but it wouldn't surprise me if quite a few of the male Latinos were also intermarried.

Since intermarriage only becomes common in the 2nd-plus generation, and only a small slice of adult, married Latinos currently fall into that group, it's easy to get a distorted image.

Also, I think government data generally treats "Latino" as a category entirely distinct from "race" (black/white/Asian/other), so I'd be surprised if the pretty high white-Latino intermarriage rates are just the spurious statistical artifact you contend.

Mark said...

Another partial explanation is the low ranking of both South Asian men and women on the sexiness hierarchy.

Even the prettiest South Asian women do very little for me. To give you some idea, the girl in "Slumdog Millionaire" is a 23-year-old Indian model. By American standards she'd never cut it. I can be attracted to Indian women in person, which factors in things that a photo can't catch - personality, intelligence, etc. (on which they often rate quite high) - but yes, on just physical beauty they are pretty low on the scale.

Just thinking of the friends I've kept in touch with over the years, all but one of my female Asian friends married white guys. The one who didn't was by far the quietest and homeliest of the bunch. All of the Asian men, if in relationships at all, are with Asian women.

Mark said...

For Asian males, the interracial dating and marriage thingy is a really a raw deal.

Well I can think of places where Asian men can go, if they don't like their raw deal, where they would not have to compete with whites, or any other race for that matter. Whites, interestingly, do not really have that option. Of course it might be as bad for Asian men in their native countries, what with sex-selective abortion and female infanticide and all, but that's not our fault, either.

What is it with the Lebanese in Australia? They've been around for generations in the United States and are not considered troublesome at all, in fact they've become largely assimilated and are almost always considered white.

Lebanese-Americans are mostly Christian. The Lebanese in Australia are mostly Muslim.

Anonymous said...

I am a white woman and I am sorry I didn't marry a Chinese dentist.

Anonymous said...

As an Asian male, I've wondered why Asian-white relationships are a popular topic. Sure this is a blog interested in forbidden topics but this particular topic gets a busy number of responses.

Some common themes in the discussion are:
-Asian men are losers
-the nerdiness of white men marrying Asian women

There's also hostility in some of the responses. For instance there was a dumb post by an anon claiming, "Asian males often indulge in stalking behavior." I haven't heard of this stereotype. Sounds made up.


I think there are some people here who are insecure and ethnocentric white guys trying to devalue Asians.

They will say, "It's only the bottom of the heap of white men going for Asian women because we all know white women are the most attractive." It seems apparent that there are some white men who like Asian women because its a preference.

"Asian men just can't get any white women." Have you considered that some guy born in another country is not going to share the same tastes? But I suppose for those insecure types, their worldview would be destroyed if it weren't universally acknowledge that white women were the prettiest.

It's telling why a few people here are interested in lowering the status of Asians:
"Well I can think of places where Asian men can go, if they don't like their raw deal, where they would not have to compete with whites, or any other race for that matter."

Ethnocentric whites don't like seeing their people fail to measure up as the best. They don't like another group becoming the "high income" group and making an overrepresented show in prestige areas such as medicine. For their psychological health they need to exaggerate the demerits of another group of people to feel better about their people and themselves.


BTW, I'm not one of those guys who sees racism everywhere. I associate with a normal group of people. I'm not stuck in some ethno-bubble. But I definitely see an underlining hostility and insecurity in a few commenters.

John of London said...

"Another partial explanation is the low ranking of both South Asian men and women on the sexiness hierarchy."
Utter rubbish. Here in London the hottest women are South Asian. The converse is not true, of course - most SA women, like those of all races, are quite ordinary. But the most attractive are outstanding, and there's quite a lot of them. It's an unlucky journey on the London Underground when I don't see a SA woman nearly as attractive as Perminder Nagra (Neela in ER). There seems to be reasonable number of White British man-South Asian woman couples, both those I see in public and those I know. They all seem quite well matched looks-wise; South Asian women are not a nerds' delight.
There is a lot of ignorant fantasy about SA women. Quite a lot of ugly, oafish White British men believe that hot Asian girls would love to have sex with them but are not allowed to by their "culture".
I read something else about immigrant intermarrriage recently. The great jazz drummer Louis Bellson just died (who knew he was still alive?) and I read in his obit that he was born Luigi Belasoni and his father was a Neapolitan immigrant. When LB married Pearl Bailey, his father refused to speak to him again. My reaction was that Belasoni snr should have known that 1 in 10 Americans were Black, and if he didn't want to risk one of his children marrying one he should have stayed in Mafia-land (or Cammorra-land to be more precise). But I guess on Isteve that sort of reaction is only acceptable wrt non-European immigrants?

Anonymous said...

RKU,

If by Latino you mean people of European Spanish descent then I agree with you. But the largest "Hispanic" population group in the US consists of indigenous Central Americans, i.e., Aztecs, and they lack the IQ/attractiveness to marry out in any significant number at all.

Re: Asian women - I am surprised at the number of comments with no mention so far of the fact that they are extremely status-obsessed with a near-mania for "stuff."

Also, several people have mentioned what they perceive as high rates of Asian-white pairings. This is not something I see on the East Coast. It sounds like a largely West Coast phenomenon. Perhaps it's b/c more of the Asians on this side of the Mississippi are FOB.

--Senor Doug

Anonymous said...

Utter rubbish. Here in London the hottest women are South Asian.

Not that you want to protest too much or anything, John. Lol.


BTW, I'm not one of those guys who sees racism everywhere. I associate with a normal group of people. I'm not stuck in some ethno-bubble. But I definitely see an underlining hostility and insecurity in a few commenters.


Nah, it's more a case of preferring to be left alone to be with people like themselves in their own countries -- people they feel some sort of ethnic connection to. That sort of thing. Oh ,that and not wanting to be ruled or dispossessed by culturally hostile racial aliens, too. You know, the kind of thing pretty much everyone else on earth not only wants but gets to enjoy. I know they don't teach you this in school, but think about it a bit and you'll see it's true.

Concerned said...

"Utter rubbish."

You do read a lot of it when the subject of interracial marriage comes up.

Such as:

"Asian women love exactly the kind of white guys that white women hate the most - nerds."

Total bullshit. The fact is, a certain kind of white woman is being classed out of the market the way that black women are. The top white women will always find husbands. The B-list is cut out by E. Asian women.

"All women are attracted to men who have more testosterone than the men of their own ethnic group."

Sure, and that's why the majority of white women who get married marry black men.

Anonymous said...

Your eyes don't lie, but the stats you read online might be false. I think if you exclude East Asian(native or foreign born) males in the USA, you'll end up with a AF/WM-AM/WF ratio of 100-1. I live in an area that has a great deal of asians, and that is the ratio I see. I see Asian women with young and old white guys, some as old as 80 years old. These aren't bad looking asian women, they are good looking 20 to early 30 something asian women.

Personally, as an Asian male, I think this outmarriage by asian women is a good thing. It shows Asians are a friendly and outgoing race of people who aren't bigoted as protaryed by others. When I goto manhatten, like in the soho area, I see 200-1 ratio in favor of af/wm. Asian women are very outgoing, they will date/marry older white guys in their 70s or black guys. It's good to see asians are not left out of this american melting pot.

Svigor said...

I don't invite my neighbor to move into my house do I bear him ill will?

Fixed.

Alternatively, if I want to build a home, and don't intend to invite my neighbor to move in with me, do I bear him ill will?

If yes, so be it.

Svigor said...

It seems apparent that there are some white men who like Asian women because its a preference.

According to that study on dating made famous recently, that isn't the case. The white male preference for Asian females was present, but very small. What was significant was the Asian female acceptance of white males.

See, the study found that women are ethnocentric in their mate choices. Men aren't. But the Asian female resistance to white males is relatively very low.

Men are whores. Not like we didn't all know this going in. That women are racists is the new data.

Svigor said...

It shows Asians are a friendly and outgoing race of people who aren't bigoted as protaryed by others.

Open borders (and economics) in Asia would show what you're trying to prove. Not sure much else would.

Victoria said...

Re feminism, Gaurav Ahuja wrote:
"Then, it may have set off a chain reaction-like signal for some White men to marry Oriental women because the shy White men could not find White women to have."

Yes, this is closer to the reality in the US. The white woman who turned feminist became so obnoxious and exuded such hostility that a normal white man (not necessarily "shy") could not find a way to get a handle on her, and was turned off. Listen to the advice of Fred Reed, the frustrated, twice (possibly thrice?) divorced white man, who openly encourages white men to go south of the border to Mexico to choose wives (as he finally resorted to doing).

I suspect that if the feminist plague had never taken hold, there would be minimum interest in Asian women, or any other kind, on the part of white men -- no matter what the intermarried claim.

"I am sure all the pro-miscegenation people are dreaming of a cafe ole society where one reaches racial nirvana when there is so much mixing and you can't tell who is of what background."

I can tell you that a great many blacks are surely dreaming of this nirvana.

Peter said...

There are a lot of nerdy white guys posting here telling themselves fantasies about how attractive they are to Asian women. Good luck with that - you still won't get the hot ones. And I know plenty of Asian men married to white girls, at least in the Northeast, so nerdy white guys still need to be very, very worried. In fact all the white men married to Asian women I know are married to immigrants, FOBs who probably didn't think they could do better. I know at least 3 couples where an Asian guy is married to a white woman - and the Asian males are all second or third generation. Maybe the US is selecting for higher testosterone Asian males, and they will soon wipe out the white guys.

Victoria said...

"Personally, as an Asian male, I think this outmarriage by asian women is a good thing. It shows Asians are a friendly and outgoing race of people who aren't bigoted as protaryed by others."

This bizarre sentiment is one that I've heard from white men also. I would like to know what kind of men care so little about the balance of power between groups that they meekly accept the seduction of their women by outsiders. As a black, watching as black men use every ploy possible to attain power over whites, I am stunned by such insipid, even juvenile notions. How could any man be more concerned about members of his group appearing to be "friendly and outgoing" than with the group's ultimate perpetuation? Especially when those members are the child-bearers?

More concerned about not appearing "bigoted?" Such meekness is appalling. Has history ever recorded anything as insane as this?

Anonymous said...

Maybe my blue-eyed daughter will get that Chinese dentist. But then I won't have blue-eyed grandchildren... but if we get life extension, maybe I'll see my blue-eyed great-grandchildren. I have hope. You all are STILL SLACKING. Haven't seen any baby announcements on these threads!

Tim said...

Another partial explanation is the low ranking of both South Asian men and women on the sexiness hierarchy.

What explains the marriage of Liz Hurley to Arun Nayar, Britney Spears and Adnan Khan, Jemima Goldsmith and Imran Khan, and Princess Diana and Hasnat Khan?

Anonymous said...

You all are STILL SLACKING. Haven't seen any baby announcements on these threads!

Right, I'll get cracking on that. Put in lots of overtime if I have to.

caucasoid said...

lol

yeah... there is a lot of white nerdboy racial nationalism in this thread, lol.

it does seem pretty unusual for one of these WM/AF couples to be composed of non-nerds. in my experience asian chicks are WAAAAAY obvious in displaying their romantic interest.. there is simply no mistaking their advertisment of their interest as something other than what it is. this fact probably makes asking them out a much easier endeavour for all the shy white nerds with poorer social skills. i'm borderline nerd so i get a lot of unwanted attention from these asian nerd girls and have felt myself wither under the weight of their oppressive female gaze on more than one occassion.

Anonymous said...

South asian men tend to do better than east asians with caucasian women. They have more aryan facial features and they're far better braggarts.

Anonymous said...

John of London wrote:

...Quite a lot of ugly, oafish White British men...

I bet John of London thinks it immoral not to add "ugly", "oafish", "ignorant", "evil" or something of that sort every time he has to say the word "white". It's a reflex with most such people.

And just a few decades ago these same folks were ruling half the world while transforming science and technology like no one had before and no one probably will again. Such an enormous fall from all that to reflexive self-hatred and complete irrelevancy. "I do hate myself, master, I do, look, let me prove it to you."

It's such a sad thing to see.

Anonymous said...

I would characterize wm/af relationships as particularly middle class professional types more than anything else.

I've noticed there are a few senators with Asian wives. McConnell, Webb, Gramn. Anymore?

Mark said...

It seems apparent that there are some white men who like Asian women because its a preference.

I love when I hear that: "I'm attracted to Asian women. All 2 billion of them? That's about as non-selective as you can get!

It's telling why a few people here are interested in lowering the status of Asians: "Well I can think of places where Asian men can go, if they don't like their raw deal, where they would not have to compete with whites, or any other race for that matter." Ethnocentric whites don't like seeing their people fail to measure up as the best.

It's telling that you misinterpret my words deliberately. I was not telling them to go home. I was telling them to quit bitching about their failure to attract white or even asian women. I don't bitch about how unfair college admissions are, so there. Whether its the mating game or the status game, fair is fair.

The numerical debate over immigration and its effects on politics, culture, and economics is another matter entirely.

Anonymous said...

I hate these threads. Its a magnet for lame comments from everyone. Whites, Indians, East Asians, are we missing anybody?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I hate these threads. Its a magnet for lame comments from everyone. Whites, Indians, East Asians, are we missing anybody?


Yeah, I know. It always degenerates into declarations of which race/ethnicity the poster has a fetish for and the amazing coincidence that scores of hot girls from exactly that race/ethnicity just can't keep their hands off him.

Just once I'd like to see a post like this: "I'm a scrawny white nerd with bad acne and no social skills who has a fetish for black Amazon babes, but they won't even give me the time of day, despite the well-documented fact that they always go for scrawny white nerds with bad acne and no social skills."

Svigor said...

Steve, I made a half dozen or so comments to this thread. Where'd they go? I ask because I can't recall anything objectionable about them, based on experience. They were pretty straightforward if memory serves.

josh said...

Brain droppings,swept up and offered for your attention: A)The entire article costs $20 to read. For that price,it had better have a lot of pictures of hot Asian and mexican women! B)The lady wanted to marry a Chinese dentist;wasnt that a John Casavettes movie?? C) A female discussion decided that white men will marry into any group? Au contraire! Most white men want to date and marry white--not out of ethnic whatever,just as happenstance. D)Where is testing 99? out looking for a nice asian girl!

Truth said...

"I hate these threads. Its a magnet for lame comments from everyone. Whites, Indians, East Asians, are we missing anybody?"

You rang?

Anonymous said...


I bet John of London thinks it immoral not to add "ugly", "oafish", "ignorant", "evil" or something of that sort every time he has to say the word "white". It's a reflex with most such people.


John of London thought he'd wade in and set the record straight with his holier-than-thou pee-ceeing. It's nice to see he's getting his butt handed to him.

I see a lot of white women like Johnno too, the we're-going-to-make-diversity-work types. They'll have coffee with some Pakistani Muslim during which they'll heartily and enthusiastically agree with all the muslim's critiques of their race and society and come away from it just floored at how easy it is to get along with these darling muslims, and why diversity is just such marvelous strength when you see it this way. They're the Good white people, not like those white people, those ones over there, they're the Bad white people.

redblitz said...

"Just once I'd like to see a post like this: "I'm a scrawny white nerd with bad acne and no social skills who has a fetish for black Amazon babes, but they won't even give me the time of day, despite the well-documented fact that they always go for scrawny white nerds with bad acne and no social skills."

Actually I'm a short nerdy brown male that has a thing for black Amazon babes =$

Anonymous said...

"Walking around downtown Sydney today, however, I see just as many, if not more, AM/WF couples than WM/AF couples"

You have got to be kidding. I live in Sydney and I must see 20 to 30 times the amount of white guys with asian women than the reverse.This is just from walking in the cbd and especially around the qvb I always see white dudes with asian chicks. Seems like asian guys are always talking about how in some other country there are "way more asian guys with white chicks" but inrealisty it doesn't exist. The other common ones i've heard have been canada, france and russia, the countries these asian guys like to choose to lie about are those that not many americans have gone to so it is difficult to confirm. Low and behold if you go to those countries it is still white guys asian chicks everywhere. I'd imagine just wishful thinking asian guys make this up.

Anonymous said...

Regarding the last poster's comment. Where you hang out determines what kind of people you see. A asian person may see 70% asian people in a normal day because he or she hangs out, entertains, eats, and shops where other asians shop. Even if he is part of a 5% minority. So the fact you may see a lot of am/wf or wm/af doesn't mean a lot because of that microcommunity bias. A second thing I'd like to point out is that in the US census, the marriage rate for asian males over 35 was actually higher than white males. In other words, despite all the efforts of racist like these blog trolls to keep the asian man down in western society, in fact the asian man comes out in top in terms of building a stable families. You can look it up

Anonymous said...

I see this is rather an old thread but I'd still like to add my 2cents, which is that I'm surprised interracial marriage is declining for Asians, specifically E.Asians.
I can't speak for Latinos, but here in NJ and NYC, there are more AF/WM couples than what I was used to growing up. I remember as late as the 80's, it was quite rare to see any E. Asians with whites. Just as whites may not have approved of such unions, Asians saw them as immoral. I remember my father commenting on those Asian women being with white men as being sluts.
Fast forward to twenty years later, half of my ten female cousins have married whites. None of them are married to what could be considered "white nerds" who couldn't get a A-class white female either, being that a couple are of upper-class whites with status and clean cut Anglo-Saxon looks. So the constant stereotyping is getting passe, especially given that E.Asian's own social economic levels are accelerating at bullet fast speed (both abroad and in native land).
The world is changing, getting smaller, whether we like it or not.

Michael C said...

Marrying a white woman isn't difficult. I almost did 23 years ago. She was 20, I was 25. Ivy league, both of us. No, I backed out. We were too immature. And I liked to explore. She was a good girl. She asked me to switch to Physics (from Computer Science) because I LOVED physics and she would make money for me. She was a ballerina, etc.. So I am not talking about an ugly woman. Also, I was the FOB.

Marriage is easy if both parties are sincere and the Asian men are decent/good men with some alpha qualities. But I don't like this thing about Asian males accumulate wealth and status and then marry white women. It's ugly.

And to most aspiring asian males, if your cock is average size and you don't know how to use it, just give it up and settle with an Asian woman. Sooner or later your white wife will fantasize about someone more competent in bed. I have gotten flirting looks (and blatant invitations) from white women who were with white, black and asian males. It scares me to some degree. If you can't be a good lover, regardless of your race, don't strain yourself to marry "UP." It's not going to work, because someone (maybe yours truly) will take your woman for a ride.

Anonymous said...

The last comment is hilarious, when you say "marry up", i know you're one of those who have a secret racist social caste system inside your head which makes you think that marrying whites can "improve" your social status. Also you're confusing lust with love.

Carl said...

Who ever said that WW/AM couples in Australia were becoming more common is full of rubbish. That is one the least common IR couples you will see in Oz, and it will always remain that way. Now AW/WM couples are far more common, and always will be as they continue to grow.

Carl said...

Whoever said that Asian male/white female couples were growing in Australia is dead wrong. That's the least common IR couple you'll see in Oz. There are and will always be far more white men/Asian women couples, especially as they continue to grow.

Anonymous said...

whoever thinks asian males have the lowest marriage rate must be retarded. asian males have the highest marriage rate in america. sorry to disappoint you fools with the facts