July 20, 2009

Whatever happened to the Saudi Menace?

After 9/11, which was mostly carried out by Saudi nationals, there were all these articles in the papers explaining how the Saudi royal family bribed Wahhabi fanatics in Saudi Arabia to leave the country and go spread extremism and terrorism somewhere else. It was widely argued that shutting down this mechanism was central to winning the War on Terror.

I recall that a number of investigations were begun into Muslim charities.

And then what happened?

I hardly ever hear about Saudi Arabia anymore. Was this problem fixed and somebody forgot to tell us? Did it not really exist in the first place? Did everybody just get bored with terrorism? Did the Saudis just pay off everybody in America to shut up about it? If so, where's my payoff? (Dear Saudi Royal Family: Please slip your envelope under the blue recycling trash can when I put it out on the street on Tuesday evening. I'll know what to do with it.) Have the Saudis just kept on doing what they do and nobody here bothers to even whine about it anymore? What's the deal?

My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer

98 comments:

Anonymous said...

Good questions. They do seem to be mostly off the radar. I can only imagine that they have been greasing palms or threatening our lovely jellyfish politicians with oil boycotts. Saudi is far more dangerous to the West than Iran. Necons and their self-appointed loudspeakers such as t99 like to rattle on about Iran, but in fact Iran is only a threat to Israeli ME hegemony. So this is the reason why we should all worry about Iran. Somehow Israel’s worries always become the worries of the West, and the real worries of the West just get shoved down the memory hole.
Anyway, Saudi is funding the Islamisation of the Balkans. Women in Sarajevo, where they just erected an enormous mosque, are being offered EUR500 to wear scarves. In Islam conversion is so simple. You just wear a beard or a scarf and the deal is done. No wonder its such a fast growing "religion". None of the complexities and heart-matters of traditional Christianity.

Simon said...

Saudi sheikhs use UK libel law to sue anyone who writes about specific funding of terrorism. At a higher level, dealing with them doesn't fit with Brave New World, which requires they be an ally against Iran. Doesn't make sense to me, but I think our political leaders are fools and villains.

Anonymous said...

After 9/11, which was mostly carried out by Saudi nationals...


I'll clue you in on something that most sensible people have figured out already, Mr. Internet Dissident: Muslims didn't actually do 9/11.

Anonymous said...

To state 'the bleeding obvious' (as the English say) - "it's because the Saudis have got most of the oil and most of the gold".

hcl said...

The CIA owns the Wahhabists, even the mid-level neocons weren't privy to that info.

Anonymous said...

The Saudi menace story went down the same memory hole the Israeli art student/dancing mover story did (although not as quickly).

Mustn't confuse the couch potatoes. Our enemies are monsters, our friends virtuous.

king obama said...

The Saudies buy a lot of US treasuries and export lots of oil.

Can't go pissing off one of your biggest creditors and the guys who control world oil prices, now can you?

I am sure the Saudies just called some of their Washington insiders and everything was forgotten.

Peter Lehmann said...

Google John Bolton. Saudis now needed to provide airway rights to the Israelis (and allegedly willing to do so) which the Iraqis appear highly unlikely to concede.

Lucius Vorenus said...

Anonymous: In Islam conversion is so simple. You just wear a beard or a scarf and the deal is done. No wonder its such a fast growing "religion". None of the complexities and heart-matters of traditional Christianity.

The 17th and 18th Century Protestants had this same problem in North America - the Papists [French in the north, Spanish in the south] could convert a savage by sprinkling water on its head, but the Protestants insisted that that the savage must first learn the Bible so as to understand the Reason for the conversion [more or less equating the abomination of savage baptism with the abomination of infant baptism].

Which, to this day, is why the Papists have such a stronghold amongst the Indian tribes of Canada, the United States, and Mexico [which, in turn, is one of the reasons why Rome is so enthusiastic about the Mexican invasion of the United States].

The more history you learn, the more you come to realize that there's nothing new under the sun.

Anonymous said...

I know that the Saudi Wahhabis are financing the low intensity rebellion in south Thailand that nobody talks about. Read a good article in the Bangkok Nation on that one.

That one is weird, every time there is a bombing nobody takes credit. No central organization, no demands. They had to ban people from double riding on motorbikes because so frequently the guy on back would shoot people.

Anonymous said...

My guess, based on elliptical conversations some relatively high-ranking contacts, is that Bush and Cheney told Saud that we would nuke Mecca and Medinah if we were attacked again.

No one will EVER admit it, but I think it is likely true.

rahm emanuel, I expect, will recind this order.

Joehammed said...

Agreed with the first Anonymous, right up till the end. Islam, for whatever else it is, gives you a guide on how to run your life. Christianity is a compendium of platitudes. Lacking any eugenic basis, the religions are equally insane in my book, but at least the one emphasizes that you not be a pussy.

The people on this board can mock Islam/Muslims all they want, and they have a lot of valid points. It's just that, from where they're standing, it all seems like so much hubris and non-awareness of the degraded nature of their own lands, the whole "glass houses" bit. I've been to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Pakistan, and the more heavily Islamicized parts of Turkey, and never once witnessed the type of depravity you see in former Protestant strongholds like Amsterdam and Berlin and London and L.A. Piss videos didn't seem to be big sellers at the souqs.

Evil Sandmich said...

Did the Saudis just pay off everybody in America to shut up about it?

Basically: "Oh please Mr. Saud, please continue to take our funny money for your oil and buy our treasuries with it."

Anonymous said...

Since 9/11, Saudi Arabia has seen terrorism on its soil seeking to overthrow the monarchy. They've gotten serious and made lots of progress.

Kevin said...

Wasn't Bin Ladin's big complaint (amongst many) about the US was the military presence in Saudi Arabia (i.e. Muslim holy land)? Also, wasn't his point of driving the US out of Muslim holy land was so he overthrow the Saud family, grab the oil money and do some really hardcore Muslim stuff?

The military pulled out of Saudi Arabia pretty much as quickly and quietly as it could. The Saud family did probably go after who ever it was that could overthrow them.

Ronduck said...

Or maybe the Wahabbists got one of their own into the presidency. There is no point in mentioning the "Saudi Menace" if they won.

ironrailsironweights said...

The second-to-worst government in the world is the government of Saudi Arabia.

The very worst government in the world is whatever will replace it.

Peter

Anonymous said...

Obama, Democrats, and Sotomayor are now a greater threat to the US than Al Qaeda.

PRCalDude said...

Steve, do you ever read JihadWatch?

I'm guessing the answer is "yes" and these questions
Did everybody just get bored with terrorism? Did the Saudis just pay off everybody in America to shut up about it? If so, where's my payoff? (Dear Saudi Royal Family: Please slip your envelope under the blue recycling trash can when I put it out on the street on Tuesday evening. I'll know what to do with it.) Have the Saudis just kept on doing what they do and nobody here bothers to even whine about it anymore? What's the deal?

are just rhetorical.

The Saudis have owned us since Tricky Dick's administration and will continue to do so until the Saudi royal family grows large enough that the oil wealth is spread too thin amongst them and they don't have the money to simultaneously buy us and pay the jihadists to take their jihad elsewhere. Given that the size of the Saudi royal family is now in excess of 100,000, and the average Saudi prince has legions of sons, that shouldn't take too long. Already, many of them are having to diversify their incomes from just living off oil wealth to extortion, theft, and kidnapping.

Sooner or later, their wells will run dry, the Muslim Brotherhood will move in, behead all of them (a happy thought), and install a different regime perhaps based on piracy and human trafficking, which are traditional Muslim occupations. Muhammad made all his dough by raiding infidel caravans and tribes, killing the men, and making off with the women.

There's even a chapter in the Qur'an entitled "The Booty", or "The Spoils of War."

Anonymous said...

Dunno.

Perhaps people stopped talking about the Saudis because there are no good alternatives to the current leadership?

Anonymous said...

Islam is the religion of peace.

Bush II kisses and hold the King's hand while Obama grovels before him. Both look forward to cashing in like Bush I has in making a ton of money in financial dealings involving a large amount of Saudi money.

Anonymous said...

The Saudis paid off Democratic politicians as well as Republican?

OneSTDV said...

Off topic:

If you (or anyone else) is interested, I responded to Obama's NAACP speech:

Analysis of Obama's NAACP Speech

Anonymous said...

If EvilNeocon/t99/whiskey/whatever hasn't been hit by lightning over the weekend, he will respond to this post, Steve. He'll tell you that you're wrong and out of your depth.

You see, Steve, shiksas, their Wahhabi allies and the last surviving relatives of the Monopoly guy need to be finally wiped off the map. The best way to do it is with nukes. The fate of democracy hangs in the balance. Above all, shiksas should not be allowed to get their delicate, pale, exquisitely unattainable hands on any nukes.

Anonymous said...

Mr. SAiler-didn't you get the memo from the israeli lobby?


When the israeli lobby perceived hamas and their saudi supporters as the immediate threat to Israel, than Saudi Arabia was presented as public enemy #1 to America as well. Once Ahmedajad became to be perceived as the greater threat to israel, well than S. Arabia was dropped , and now Iran is being promoted as public enemy #1.

You might notice that we don't hear that much about the so called WAHABI threat as well. What happened to the Wahabi threat? What? did they all convert to Anglicanism?

David said...

"Did it [the Saudi problem] not really exist in the first place?" - Steve asks.

Careful, Steve. You're heading into Howard Zinn/Noam Chomsky territory here. We have always been at war with whooping cranes.

outlaw josey wales said...

This is the country we should have bombed and converted to a democracy.

The only way to ever break the "special" relationship between SA and the US is to decrease dependence on oil.

Danindc said...

It would be funny if someone left you ten bucks under your recycling bin on tuesday night

Danindc said...

The funnist things about islam to me are being able to divorce your wife by yelling "I DIVORCE YOU!!" three times and that youtube video of the woman in the burqa eating spaghetti

Palestinian car swarms are funny too ....

airtommy said...

Heck, we aren't pressuring Saudi Arabia to stop terrorism, we're collaborating with Saudi Arabia to SPONSOR terrorism. The Saudi/Israeli/American alliance at work:

an agreement among Vice President Dick Cheney, Deputy National Security Advisor Elliot Abrams, and Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the Saudi national security adviser, whereby the Saudis would covertly fund the Sunni Fatah al-Islam in Lebanon as a counterweight to the Shia Hezbollah.

When asked why the administration would be acting in a way that appears to run counter to US interests, Hersh says that, since the Israelis lost to them last summer, "the fear of Hezbollah in Washington, particularly in the White House, is acute."


Seymour Hersh

more info

So, we're sponsoring American enemy Al Qaeda so they can weaken Israeli enemy Hezbollah. As usual, American interests are put on the backburner in favor of Israel's interests.

Anonymous said...

Have the Saudis just kept on doing what they do and nobody here bothers to even whine about it anymore?

Bingo. See, they're too rich and have too many powerful friends in high places for us to ever really do anything about them.

testing99 said...

Saudi run charities HAVE been investigated, people convicted, in Northern VA, in Oregon, in Florida, and in other places. Your best bet for info is Counterjihad, or Gates of Vienna, or other anti-Jihad websites that have links to news stories that did run about the trials and convictions.

Basically, the media/yuppie elite decided "Islam good, GWB Bad" and chose up sides. Against America as always. Saudis continue to fund Mosques (ground zero for Jihadism and terror plots but off-limits due to Dem/Media PC and Multiculturalism) not only here but as Anon notes above, in the Balkans, in Africa, and in Indonesia. The latter being very troubling because Hambali had hooked up with Khalid Sheik Mohammed (architect of 9/11) to replicate the same thing here in LA, the Library Towers plot (crashing 747's into those towers, others). It never got beyond the planning stage because waterboarding KSM got Hambali's network and Hambali.

Contrary to Anon's idiot babblings, though, Iran is both directly dangerous to the US (in the habit of sponsoring terrorist attacks against us like Khobar Towers) and connected to the Saudis. A nuclear Iran (Germany claims contra US that Iran never stopped working on nukes and is only 6 mos away from them) means a nuclear Saudi Arabia. Anti-Semites might get their joy seeing 5 million Jews wiped out in a nuclear first strike, but that just means that the US must now monitor shipping container nukes from Pakistan, Iran, and inevitably Saudi Arabia (not convinced the US will protect it and wanting it's own nukes to counter Iranian expansion). Given the stories on HotAir and other places about Basij raping teen girls before their executions, the Iranian regime's mercy and good sense is not one I'd bet LA or NYC's survival on. That regime unlike the USSR or China is non-Western to it's core. They don't think like us.

If the Saudis figure they need nukes, they can buy them quickly from a global supply chain. Iran is as much a threat to them as it is to Israel, though in different matters. [Note: Israel is more than a thousand miles away from Iran, has no ability to take and hold Iranian territory, is tiny. Iran's desire to nuke Israel for nothing but "prestige" is an indicator of how non-Western it is and how a profound direct and indirect threat the regime is to America.]

testing99 said...

Let me add, Human Rights Watch has been taking money from the Saudis. Links here and here

Money quote from the Atlantic:

In other words, yes, the director of Human Rights Watch's Middle East division is attempting to raise funds from Saudis, including a member of the Shura Council (which oversees, on behalf of the Saudi monarchy, the imposition in the Kingdom of the strict Wahhabi interpretation of Islamic law) in part by highlighting her organization's investigations of Israel, and its war with Israel's "supporters," who are liars and deceivers. It appears as if Human Rights Watch, in the pursuit of dollars, has compromised its integrity.
-------------------
Multiply that by say, the NYT or WaPo or other media organizations seeking funding outside Carlos Slim, or various politicos, and the ascendancy of Barack Hussein Obama in the Democratic Party as it's leader and exponent of Muslim pandering, and you have your answer.

Yes the Saudis are still a menace, and yes they have bought much of the influence in this country through NGOistans and other means.

Anonymous said...

Whatever happened to the Saudi menace? The (Christian) religious right buried it, just like it did with cold fusion, cabbage patch dolls, California encounter groups, vitamin E, and the like.

georgesdelatour said...

The whole Iraq war was purely about Saudi Arabia. The second largest oil reserves after Saudi are in Iraq. The theory was, turn Iraq into a dependable US client state and you can throw Saudi overboard...

Anonymous said...

The second-to-worst government in the world is the government of Saudi Arabia.

Unless one has taxation at the top of one's list. At least they do their thing on their own dime.

~Svigor

Anonymous said...

I'll clue you in on something that most paranoid lunatics have figured out already, Mr. Internet Dissident: Muslims didn't actually do 9/11.

There, fixed that for you.

Anonymous said...

Anti-Semites might get their joy seeing 5 million Jews wiped out in a nuclear first strike

No, all the joy seems to be with the philo-Semites (say, Scots-Irish neocons) who use this phantom menace to club the people they hate ad infinitum et nauseum.

Don't worry, the dream's all yours. You can have it.

~Svigor

rob said...

Contrary to Anon's idiot babblings

Testy calling anyone an idiot is the funniest evah! Hey testy, remember when you predicted a Chinese missile launch at Hawaii on July 4th? Did that happen?

Your credibility is improved when you can admit to being wrong. Looks less like you're mentally ill.

Anonymous said...

"The second-to-worst government in the world is the government of Saudi Arabia."

Unless one has taxation at the top of one's list.


Sure, if you're a pitiful buffoon with silly priorities, then yes, many first-world nations under the rule of law could be considered far worse than a kleptocratic terror-exporting theocracy.

Anonymous said...

Sure, if you're a pitiful buffoon with silly priorities, then yes, many first-world nations under the rule of law could be considered far worse than a kleptocratic terror-exporting theocracy.

The Saudis don't tax their citizens (they have low business taxes/tariffs/whatever but no income tax AFAIK), and they don't reserve the right to enact military indentured servitude either. And from what little I can gather, a man's home is his castle.

Kleptocracy? I'm all ears, I'll listen to your case.

What's got your dander up? Wymmenz can't drive? A tragedy, to be sure. Here's the world's smallest violin playing for the would-be Saudi wymmenz drivers.

Terror-exporting? Er, from a Saudi citizen's point of view, who gives a damn?

Like I said, I'm all ears. I don't know much about SA so I'd love to learn more, sans the Usual Suspects and their axes.

~Svigor

Anonymous said...

Svigor said...
"to club the people they hate ad infinitum et nauseum."

LOL. Nauseam, dude, not nauseum. Why bother going for the Latin when you don't actually know any Latin? Nothing more risible than someone going for the high-falutin' and doing a pratfall.

Anonymous said...

LOL. Nauseam, dude, not nauseum. Why bother going for the Latin when you don't actually know any Latin? Nothing more risible than someone going for the high-falutin' and doing a pratfall.

Er, spelling != definition. You were saying about pratfalls? Or are you suggesting that I don't actually know what nauseam means (cuz you know, the etymology's really obscure given the lack of similar words in English, heh).

To answer your question, I use Latin when it's more concise.

~Svigor

Anonymous said...

Svigor said...
The Saudis don't tax their citizens (they have low business taxes/tariffs/whatever but no income tax AFAIK), and they don't reserve the right to enact military indentured servitude either. And from what little I can gather, a man's home is his castle.

Kleptocracy? I'm all ears, I'll listen to your case.

What's got your dander up? Wymmenz can't drive? A tragedy, to be sure. Here's the world's smallest violin playing for the would-be Saudi wymmenz drivers.

Terror-exporting? Er, from a Saudi citizen's point of view, who gives a damn?



In which case I strongly recommend that you convert to Wahhabist Islam, become fluent in Arabic, and try to become a legal resident there. Sounds like you'd love it.

Eric said...

You don't hear about it because good news doesn't sell newspapers. From the article:

Saudi Arabia has issued another terrorist "most wanted" list. The 85 suspects are all men not living in Saudi Arabia, but believed to be engaged in planning new attacks. All but two of them (Yemenis) are Saudis. The first such list, issued in 2004, had 26 names. Within two years, all but one of those on the list were killed, captured or surrendered.

Anonymous said...

That's right, I remember hearing they were all from saudi arabia. Could someone explain why we went into Afganistan, then? What was ever the link between the Taliban and 9/11?

Assistant Village Idiot said...

I can't keep the various anon's straight, so I am just skipping over their comments.

As to the Saudis, I think there is a white-collar crime analogy here. What they do is more dangerous, but less overtly bloody, so it doesn't trigger the same response as a suicide bomber. Not fully rational, but very much the lot of humankind.

Steve Sailer said...

"It would be funny if someone left you ten bucks under your recycling bin on tuesday night"

Hey, there's 52 tuesday nights in a year times $10 each. I could use it.

AmericanGoy said...

"Necons and their self-appointed loudspeakers such as t99 like to rattle on about Iran, but in fact Iran is only a threat to Israeli ME hegemony."

Quoted, repeated once again.

Every American should read this and understand the truth behind this statement.

Am very happy that some 'merkans get it.

Reactionary said...

Another thought: if Arab Muslim = doubleplusevil, why is the solution to go halfway around the globe and spend billions bombing Arab villages and rebuilding Arab villages rather than just barring them access to the Anglo-
American homeland?

Or did I just propose a hatesolution?

tanabear said...

Steve: "What's the deal?"

It is very easy to understand. There is no war on terror. Terrorism is the excuse to wage a war for Empire.

Carney said...

Former NASA rocket scientist Robert Zubrin wrote a book about this in 2007, "Energy Victory". Its prime focus was on de-funding the Saudis (and the Iranians) by switching our auto fuel from petroleum to alcohol. It's actually affordable, practical, and a darn sight better than being stuffed by Obamacrats into a tiny fragile slow weak euro/eco toy. Anyway, Zubrin has been all over the place denouncing the Saudis, and both party establishments for sucking up to and being bought out by them.

Anonymous said...

Sorry to go O/T...

The ongoing mystery of Obama's birth certificate is starting to have real world implications.

Luke Lea said...

I think Kevin got it right:

Kevin said...

"Wasn't Bin Ladin's big complaint (amongst many) about the US was the military presence in Saudi Arabia (i.e. Muslim holy land)? Also, wasn't his point of driving the US out of Muslim holy land was so he overthrow the Saud family, grab the oil money and do some really hardcore Muslim stuff?

The military pulled out of Saudi Arabia pretty much as quickly and quietly as it could. The Saud family did probably go after who ever it was that could overthrow them.

jack strocchi said...

One thing that happened is the Iraq war. The war's strategic design was to organize a swap of US's Middle Eastern client state: ditch the Saudis/hitch the Iraqis.

Over the late 2002-early 2003 period I predicted that the US would both leave Saudi Arabia and invade Iraq. This prediction was confirmed when the US military quit Saudi Arabian air bases in April 2003.

The reasoning behind this was that US presence in Saudi tended to aggravate jihadis. Whilst Baathist control of Iraq obviously aggravated the REPs.

So now that the US is out of Saudi the local jihadis dont have so much of a reason to want to get rid of the Wahhabist regime there. So things have quietened down.

Now these jihadis want to get rid of the US-backed regime in Baghdad. So probably the US will have to invade and take over some other Middle Eastern regime.

Rinse, Lather and Repeat until the End of History.

Anonymous said...

In which case I strongly recommend that you convert to Wahhabist Islam, become fluent in Arabic, and try to become a legal resident there. Sounds like you'd love it.

(Is this like when WNs tell blacks if they're so miserable they can go back to Africa?)

If I was an Arab (or similar) I probably would.

~Svigor

Anonymous said...

And we all know that, being the extant state closest in shape to Nazi Germany, Israel is the Worst State in the World. Or, at least, that's the conventional wisdom, right? Right? :)

Mr. Red White and Blue said...

"In which case I strongly recommend that you convert to Wahhabist Islam, become fluent in Arabic, and try to become a legal resident there. Sounds like you'd love it."

Awesome. Sailer's board becomes Free Republic.

Strongly Against Rape! And Poverty! said...

Man, that Zubrin's a brave guy. Denouncing the SAUDIS?! Ballsy, man, ballsy.

John Seiler said...

Lucius Vorenus seems to forget that, in addition to Catholics, the following denominations have infant baptism: Episcopalians (Anglicans, Church of England), Lutherans, Methodists, the (Dutch) Reformed Church in America, Presbyterians, Eastern Orthodox.

Anonymous said...

"Or are you suggesting that I don't actually know what nauseam means"

I was suggesting you shouldn't use words you can't spell, especially foreign ones. Makes you look like a pretentious buffoon.

Anonymous said...

Carney said...
Former NASA rocket scientist Robert Zubrin wrote a book about this in 2007, "Energy Victory". Its prime focus was on de-funding the Saudis (and the Iranians) by switching our auto fuel from petroleum to alcohol. It's actually affordable, practical, and a darn sight better than being stuffed by Obamacrats into a tiny fragile slow weak euro/eco toy. Anyway, Zubrin has been all over the place denouncing the Saudis, and both party establishments for sucking up to and being bought out by them.


I can't wait for the day when petroleum becomes obsolete. The U.S. can free itself of all sorts of dangerous entanglements & sleazy alliances and the Muslim Middle East will finally be forced to grow up.

Anonymous said...

"This is the country we should have bombed and converted to a democracy."

Bombed and converted to sand, more like it.

We'd all be better off if those Middle East hillbillies hadn't discovered shit - or rather, let us discover and extract the shit for them.

Anonymous said...

Another thought: if Arab Muslim = doubleplusevil, why is the solution to go halfway around the globe and spend billions bombing Arab villages and rebuilding Arab villages rather than just barring them access to the Anglo-
American homeland?

Or did I just propose a hatesolution?



If you look at Robert Spencer's book, The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam, he's got a section on "defeating the jihad domestically" which does not mention immigration restriction. I think that fact alone tells you everything you need to know about the crowd that rants and raves about "jihadis" and "Islamofascists" and poses as great defenders of the West. The truth is, these people have no problem with the idea of whites being reduced to minority status in America and Europe (in fact, most of them probably find this outcome desirable), they just want us fighting Israel's enemies while being ethnically displaced.

rob said...

Reactionary, that is the best hateword ever. Explains why we, especially the government, can't f*cking fix anything.

Eric said...

Necons and their self-appointed loudspeakers such as t99 like to rattle on about Iran, but in fact Iran is only a threat to Israeli ME hegemony.

What makes Iran a threat is their program to acquire nuclear weapons, along with development of long range ballistic missiles. It's probably something we'll just have to live with, in the end, but it's downright idiotic to say they're only a threat to Israel.

In a decade or two the Iranians will have nuclear tipped missiles capable of hitting any major US city. As far as I'm concerned that makes them a hell of a lot more dangerous than anyone else in the region. Even the Pakistanis seem mostly content with missiles that can hit India.

Forget intent. Intent is like the weather - it changes from day to day. Capability is what's important.

Anonymous said...

Joehammed sez:
"It's just that, from where they're standing, it all seems like so much hubris and non-awareness of the degraded nature of their own lands, the whole "glass houses" bit."


The degradation started once the power of the church was broken in the 1800's. I'm not going to go into a discussion about who was behind busting the church...

If the power of the Mullahs were broken in the lands you mentioned, my guess is the souqs will be even viler than what you see in Berlin or Amsterdam. In South Africa I remember that you could buy some pretty decrepit and perverse articles in the Indian market in Durban, which had an Islamic influence. That was during Apartheid, which still had strict public morality laws. So, depravity is not a western recluse.

About being pussies: The Crusaders certainly were not pussies. And generally soldiers from Christian lands are obviously better warriors than Arabs. But that's just a by-product of a Christian influence. Christianity is on a different plane to Islam. It goes beyond just having a mere manual for this life, but addresses the question of purpose. Any half-intelligent person can figure out how to take care of daily life. I don’t need religion for that. But I need faith to deal with the really tough questions of this life such as death, terminal sickness, loneliness, failure and answers for the time beyond that (afterlife). This is where Islam and Judaism fail. They only deal with this life. They have fancy systems of regulations for this life, but the test is the afterlife. And these regulations just burden people, they do not set them free. They also do not conclusively deal with guilt, sin and forgiveness so people need to go through rituals all the time in order to receive some relief. In Christianity forgiveness of sin is the starting block and thereafter only called on as needed. In Judaism and Islam there is never closure w.r.t. guilt. So people travel to Mecca, kill “unbelievers”, or do things for Israel which really hurt other nations so that they can score brownie points with God. When God himself forgives, which is the message of Christ, such rituals are obviated.

That’s also why both religions have such visceral hatred of Christianity, because it is the only religion which states in no uncertain terms that the purpose of this life is not to max it here, but to prepare for another world which is on a much higher level. And that our preparation here has direct influence on how we enter that next world. It relativates this life as a mere passing through. Christianity really sucks for kingdom builders.

In that sense Islam is an easy religion - You only need to run a set number of rituals, and apart from that you can do what you like. But of course any intelligent person can see through that. It's a self-deception.

Anonymous said...

airtommy sed:
"As usual, American interests are put on the backburner in favor of Israel's interests.


bingo!

Anonymous said...

if u click on t99's handle the post collapses. That frees up about 80% of the remainder so you can continue to enjoy iSteve as ususal

Anonymous said...

Svigor said...
(Is this like when WNs tell blacks if they're so miserable they can go back to Africa?)

If I was an Arab (or similar) I probably would.


I'm perfectly serious, Svigor. If you're so miserable in America, you think it's a lost cause, and you have the wherewithal to leave, why haven't you left? If your highest values are comfort, privilege, and lots of subservient pussy, and Saudi society promises you these things, why haven't you tried to join it? After all, "a man's country is where the things he loves are most respected...."

Anonymous said...

"In a decade or two the Iranians will have nuclear tipped missiles capable of hitting any major US city."

This claim is so asininely stupid it deserves a special Shrine of Stupidity all its own on top of Mt. Stupid.

Iran not only won't have nukes in ten years, they won't have nuclear tipped missiles capable of hitting major European cities in ten years, much less US cities.

It's all about Israel, dude. Israel has the nukes, right here and now, capable of hitting any major city in the middle east and much of Europe. Israel is the problem here, not a fantasy nuclear ICBM armed Iran.

Iran's biggest technical military accomplishment that the neo-con lemmings are all a-twitter about is a light helicopter that was cutting edge technology in the 1950's.

Nuclear tipped ICBMs capable of accurately hitting US cities on the other side of the world are simply not going to become technically feasible for a country like Iran in any foreseeable future in our lifetimes.

And if by some miracle they did manage to develop them, so what? We survived a much worse threat from the USSR, and we would overpower Iran so easily it would be no contest.

You neo-con tools trying to scare us with this Iranian nukes woo-woo are absolutely disgusting and pathetic, but there are plenty of ignorant rednecks and mouth breathers who will swallow your shit, like their lips, and ask for more. Because they luv to beat up some a-rabs and i-ranians.

Reactionary said...

I'm perfectly serious, Svigor. If you're so miserable in America, you think it's a lost cause, and you have the wherewithal to leave, why haven't you left?

I can't speak for Svigor but I echo his sentiment. We had a very safe and comparatively homogenous society that functioned at a high level before the elites decided we had to carve out a Zionist state in Palestine and throw our borders open with no thought to who we were letting in. Militant Islam would not be a problem for us if the government actually did what it is supposed to do: protect the American nation's cultural and geographic redoubt.

So, rather than bitching about white guys who can't figure out why they're supposed to hate Arabs so much, why don't you hector the people who sold out our birthright into leaving instead?

Messageboard Tough! said...

"Bombed and converted to sand, more like it."

Tough guys galore at iSteve.

Anonymous said...

I was suggesting you shouldn't use words you can't spell, especially foreign ones.

No you weren't. Now you are, after your sloppy diction painted you into a corner.

Do you have more dicta from Anon's Arbitrary & Niggling Rules of Writing to share, or was it just the one?

~Svigor

P.S., I don't mean to sound ungrateful - I doubt I'll ever misspell nauseam again, what with my newfound mnemonic device ("A" as in Annoying Anonymous Asshole, not "U").

Anonymous said...

Forget intent. Intent is like the weather - it changes from day to day. Capability is what's important.

Might want to qualify that, seeing how Iran's waaaaaaay down the list made by your criterion (preceded by Israel and half of Europe).

~Svigor

Anonymous said...

Sorry to go O/T...

The ongoing mystery of Obama's birth certificate is starting to have real world implications.


We might as well all get used to the idea that there's a big fat skeleton in that closet. Smoke, fire, etc.

~Svigor

The Benny Hinn Head Smack said...

Haven't the time to address all the Christian's comments - far too many falacious points. Anyway, good luck with that religion, man. Seems it's really paid off for the group that latched on to it.

Will briefly note that my afterlife is in my children, and theirs, and theirs, and so on. It's not playing volleyball with Thomas Aquinas and eating cotton candy from magic trees while avoiding the enormous sandaled feet of Yahweh.

David said...

"Above all, shiksas should not be allowed to get their delicate, pale, exquisitely unattainable hands on any nukes."

Except mine.

albertosaurus said...

It is certainly true that the phenomenon known as Hubbert's Peak is founded on bad math - just like global warming. But it is also true that the oil won't last forever.

A century ago Arabia (it only became Saudi Arabia with Abdul Aziz ibn Saud) had only one source of hard currency - pearls. Then they got oil. When the oil dries up they will be back to relying on pearls again.

That is if they don't use the oil funds to invest in more sustainable industries.

The Meiji also had to transform their culture in order to enter the modern world. They did so and astonished the world. The Saudis behave like one of those mid-European municipalities only seen in operetta. They have kings and princes not engineering schools and heavy industries.

The Arabian people are doomed. The Battle of Britain was won by the oil fields of Texas. Those fields are all in decline today. Texas oil began its downturn around 1970. The war birds of tommorow will need to rely on Middle East oil fields. But those fields may have already begun to decline too.

Texas continues as a state but Arabia will have much more trouble surviving as a nation. Many international conflicts endure for long periods. For example, Caesar describes the invasion by Ariovistus (Germany and France). That conflict continued for 2,000 more years. Saudi Arabia on the other hand is likely to collapse in the lifetime of most of this blog's readers.

By the time Arabian oil production is clearly in decline several things will happen. The Saudi royal family will be removed. One of the great powers will move in (China?). The country will be partitioned with the holy cities separated out (assuming they haven't been nuked). There will be a PBS documentary on the "Tragedy of Saudi Arabia" but few viewers will shed tears.

In the meantime...

Truth(er) said...

"I can't wait for the day when petroleum becomes obsolete. The U.S. can free itself of all sorts of dangerous entanglements & sleazy alliances and the Muslim Middle East will finally be forced to grow up."

Yeah...then the same liberals who were squawking about our dependence on foreign oil will be shedding crocodile tears for the emerging humanitarian crisis in the former oil-rich countries. The libs will be demanding that we let in those starving, Saudi refugees.

Jeremiah Whitmoore said...

If the Saudis figure they need nukes, they can buy them quickly from a global supply chain. Iran is as much a threat to them as it is to Israel, though in different matters. [Note: Israel is more than a thousand miles away from Testing writes

"Iran, has no ability to take and hold Iranian territory, is tiny. Iran's desire to nuke Israel for nothing but "prestige" is an indicator of how non-Western it is and how a profound direct and indirect threat the regime is to America."

Are you honestly dumb enough to believe Iran will nuke Israel for prestige?

Iran is no threat to the USA even if your hypothesis is true about nukes.

Anonymous said...

"That’s also why both religions have such visceral hatred of Christianity, because it is the only religion which states in no uncertain terms that the purpose of this life is not to max it here, but to prepare for another world which is on a much higher level."

Then why the interest in HBD and selective immigration? It obviously has no effect on your salvation, so why are you wasting your time with a bunch of racists instead of praying the rosary?

"In Judaism and Islam there is never closure w.r.t. guilt."

It's the same with Christianity. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that prayer and confession is a ritual that you must do over and over because according to Christianity, man cannot perfect himself so he is always guilty. It's not a shock that white guilt is ubiquitous in white Christian nations because there is no closure for guilt and sin in Christianity and once society becomes secular it begins to feel guilt over other things like poor NAM performance instead of fornication.

It gets a little tiresome hearing Christian conservatives proclaiming the superiority of their religion when it's their religion that thrust the West into the current predicament.

To the other commenter who railed against Svigor's misspelled word:

"LOL. Nauseam, dude, not nauseum. Why bother going for the Latin when you don't actually know any Latin? Nothing more risible than someone going for the high-falutin' and doing a pratfall."

This is asinine. Do we all need to be fluent in Latin before we can use commonly understood Latin phrases such as ad nauseam and et cetera? Seems to me you were just looking for an opening to flame him. Could it have anything to do with his admission of being a WN? Gee...I wonder.

Anonymous said...

"Do we all need to be fluent in Latin before we can use commonly understood Latin phrases such as ad nauseam and et cetera?"

You should know enough to be able to spell commonly used Latin phrases correctly. Otherwise avoid them and write in English, your mother tongue.

Anonymous said...

Yeah...then the same liberals who were squawking about our dependence on foreign oil will be shedding crocodile tears for the emerging humanitarian crisis in the former oil-rich countries. The libs will be demanding that we let in those starving, Saudi refugees.

Sadly, the squishy libs probably will try to argue something like that. Still, a cash-strapped, resourceless Muslim Middle East will be a blessing for us all, including them.

Anonymous said...

We had a very safe and comparatively homogenous society that functioned at a high level before the elites decided we had to carve out a Zionist state in Palestine and throw our borders open with no thought to who we were letting in. Militant Islam would not be a problem for us if the government actually did what it is supposed to do: protect the American nation's cultural and geographic redoubt.

You still think the jihadists want to wipe out America because it gives aid to Israel? Read the jihadists' own literature: they want to wipe us out because after the Cold War we were the sole remaining super-power and therefore the only obstacle (in their minds) to re-establishing the old Islamic Empire (which would include large parts of Europe). They believed that the U.S. was a "paper tiger" incapable of fighting a war of attrition. They were convinced that a series of bold, splashy 9/11-style attacks would demoralize us and inspire Muslims around the world to rally to the jihadists. Israel is a side-show, a bloody shirt to wave periodically for fundraising efforts and to get Western lefties to nod sympatheticaly. Even if the U.S. had maintained chilly relations with Israel, al Qaeda would have attacked us. We--and most of the rest of the world--are too dependent on foreign oil to stay out of the whole mess. We're stuck fighting these fuckers, one way or another, until oil no longer matters--which will probably be for a few more decades at least. Sorry about that. It sucks, I know.

And it's perfectly fine by me if we shut down immigration to the U.S., especially Muslim immigration and illegal immigration of all kinds.

And no, I'm not Testy, nor am I Jewish, Zionist, or neo-con. I'm just someone who doesn't let his dislike of Testy types fool him into thinking that the jihadists aren't really out to destroy us.

Anonymous said...

Svigor said...
"P.S., I don't mean to sound ungrateful - I doubt I'll ever misspell [ad] nauseam again"

Mission accomplished. Go and sin no more.

Eric said...

Iran not only won't have nukes in ten years, they won't have nuclear tipped missiles capable of hitting major European cities in ten years, much less US cities.

This is simply stupid. The Russians say six months for the nukes. Really, you're just clueless. You really believe a country sitting on a giant underground lake of oil is using those thousands of centrifuges to make fuel for nuclear power? Do you believe in Santa Claus too?

The Iranians already have the technical know-how to build the nukes. They've got thousands of engineers trained in US universities. We built nukes in 1945. It takes a really twisted mix of arrogance and stupidity to think they can't do it in 2009. What they're waiting for is enough enriched fuel to put it together.

As to the missiles, they already have a home-grown ballistic missile with a 3000km range. From an engineering perspective there's a pretty short step between a 3000km IRBM and an ICBM. They'll have ICBMs in three or four years at the rate they're developing.

The only reason I said ten years is it will probably take that long to miniaturize and harden the warheads to survive an intercontinental flight. There's nothing especially difficult about that in a technical sense, though, it's just a fair bit of engineering.

Really, you need to stop obsessing about Israel long enough to see what's going on in the rest of the world. Not everything that happens is about teh joooos.

Eric said...

Might want to qualify that, seeing how Iran's waaaaaaay down the list made by your criterion (preceded by Israel and half of Europe).

Oh, that's true. But the intent in France or Britain or Israel isn't as likely to change, or at least not as quickly. Iran isn't a very stable country, politically.

Reactionary said...

We're stuck fighting these fuckers, one way or another, until oil no longer matters--which will probably be for a few more decades at least. Sorry about that. It sucks, I know.

See, here's where your hopeless: you don't know how global trade works. Without the West buying their oil, the Saudis are back to burning camel dung and wandering from oasis to oasis. They need technology, we need oil; trade WILL happen. Saddam Hussein was selling oil to the West right up to the day we invaded. BTW, how's THAT paying for itself?

And it's perfectly fine by me if we shut down immigration to the U.S., especially Muslim immigration and illegal immigration of all kinds.

And that was Svigor's point: the USG is literally engaged in electing itself a new people and kicking its net tax producers out into the cold. That's when you commenced rending your clothes and screaming at him to use correct Latin and pack his bags for Mecca.

One day all you flag-humpers are going to realize that what you thought was your country has been gone since Eisenhower. And probably since Coolidge declined to run for a second term.

For that matter, America's definitive end came most recently, when she elected a president without a single Anglo-American element to his name. What possible commonality of interest do the descendants of the folks who built this country have with such a man and his appointees? They are sharpening their knives for you.

Anonymous said...

Eric,

You are a moron. "The Russians" say six months, huh? Yeah, and the neo-cons have been saying "six months" now, every six months, for the past ten years. It's not going to happen.

And there's a huge technological leap from a short range theater ballistic missile, highly inaccurate theater missiles I might add, to a true ICBM capable of hitting US cities on the other side of the world.

The Iranians have shown no technological ability to develop such weapons; if nukes and ICBMs were so easy to build there would be a lot more countries building them. And they have shown no real desire to develop them either; they can't afford them and they don't need them.

The impotence of the Israeli and American military to intimidate the Iranians into changing their foreign policy is proof enough that they don't need such weapons, which would only make them targets of the US and Israelis, if they tried to acquire them.

And you of all people have the chutzpah to call anyone else "clueless"? You and your neo-con friends have been proven wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong about the "threat" of Iran so many times (and Iraq before that) and yet you laughably continue to insist that you have some sort of credibility.

Ha! Everyone point and laugh at the funny gentleman. For a dollar he will tell you a scary story; everyone put a dollar in his cup. Everyone pretend to be scared.

Anonymous said...

If only the Iranians did have nukes and ICBMs; it would finally shut up all the neo-con talking point robots who infest our airwaves and blogs.

Notice you never hear them talking about the Chinese ICBMs pointed at our heads.

A nuclear armed Iran could no more threaten us than a nuclear armed Pakistan could: we would crush them in an instant if they tried anything, and they know it.

The only people who care about Iran's nukes are the Israelis, who have the nuclear monopoly now in the middle east, and don't want to lose it.

Of course the usual liars will tell you that's not about Isreal; which means of course that it is really all about Israel.

Everyone knows it. Except for the clueless red state goyim who are Israel's cheerleaders; they are stupid enough to believe that this is somehow a security issue for the USA.

Carney3 said...

"Another thought: if Arab Muslim = doubleplusevil, why is the solution to go halfway around the globe and spend billions bombing Arab villages and rebuilding Arab villages rather than just barring them access to the Anglo-American homeland?

Or did I just propose a hatesolution?"


The "leave them alone where they are" solution won't work because by accident of geology and geography the Mideast has 70% of the world's oil reserves, including all the cheapest and easiest to drill stuff. We have 3%. That gives OPEC an unbreakable grip on the world's oil market.

As long as we stupidly insist, year after year, on permitting new cars to be made and sold that are unnecessarily locked in to petroleum fuels only, rather than making fuel choice and alcohol compatibility standard features like seat belts, we will continue to fund, to the tune of hundreds of billions and sometimes trillions annually, an insane apocalyptic death cult with global ambitions and an unappeasable hostility to us.

So at a rock bottom minimum we have to switch to an alcohol standard to defund them.

Eric said...

You are a moron. "The Russians" say six months, huh? Yeah, and the neo-cons have been saying "six months" now, every six months, for the past ten years. It's not going to happen.

Just like the Russians and the Chinese were never able to get them. And that nation most renowned for its technical prowess, North Korea.

The Iranians have shown no technological ability to develop such weapons; if nukes and ICBMs were so easy to build there would be a lot more countries building them. And they have shown no real desire to develop them either; they can't afford them and they don't need them.

Yes, that 1940s technology is impossibly hard for anyone to master. I'm guessing you have no scientific or technical background to write a paragraph like that. As I said before, ICBMs are a very small step from IRBMs from an engineering standpoint. And to say that an oil-rich country that's busily enriching uranium has shown "no real desire" for nuclear weapons is delusional.

Eric said...

I can't wait for the day when petroleum becomes obsolete. The U.S. can free itself of all sorts of dangerous entanglements & sleazy alliances and the Muslim Middle East will finally be forced to grow up.

The really sad part of all this is we could have been well on the way to energy independence if we'd used the "stimulus" money to build nuclear power plants instead of frittering it away on resurfacing usable roads and community organizing. I'll bet a trillion dollars could build enough generating capacity for all our electricity needs and most of our liquid fuel (which you can make from C02 if you have electricity).

And it wouldn't just be the Saudis. Oil money is what keeps Chavez and half the keptocrats in the -stans in power.

Ronduck said...

Reactionary said...

America's definitive end came most recently, when she elected a president without a single Anglo-American element to his name.

JFK?

Anonymous said...

Mission accomplished.

Now we should get your diction problem sorted out.

What does the AANRW say about people who can't impart a simple meaning in English? Shouldn't you be shopping for a new language?

Anonymous said...

I'll bet a trillion dollars could build enough generating capacity for all our electricity needs and most of our liquid fuel (which you can make from C02 if you have electricity).

Anyone got a link to some numbers on this? I.e., how much electrical capacity is needed, cost for and amount of other resources needed, etc?

~Svigor

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Svigor said...
"What does the AANRW say about people who can't impart a simple meaning in English?"

They'd say unkind things about you, Svigor, for using obscure, undefined acronyms.