November 18, 2009

Good point

Yes, America clearly needs a close analysis of the President of the United States' first book. But who could possibly know where to find such a thing?

My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer

101 comments:

Anonymous said...

I seen this information (the 11 fact checkers for Palin's book from the AP) earlier in the day, and thought about just how blunt and admission this fact is that the media is hopelessly biased.


Here is where I (apparently the meanest man in the universe) differ from others: Someone somewhere made the decision to assign 11 reporters to fact-check Sarah Palin's book. Who is this person(s)? Once identified, they should be held accountable (fired) by the Associated Press, or other media outlets (Fox News) should bring it up endlessly that "person X" is still at the AP, therefore the AP is too biased to be believed.

Liberals embedded in the media will continue to get away with such chicanery until they start losing their jobs for it, just as conservatives self-censor in the face political correctness to not lose their own jobs. I hope FOX finds out who made this decision, and runs stories on this person(s) for a full two-week news cycle, calling for their heads. If the AP doesn't fire them, then all conservative media outlets can constantly point out how biased the AP is.


Dont let it die conservatives, make them answer for it.

Anonymous said...

And how about that book you were writing about the Minority Mortgage Meltdown? Did you try shopping it to the University of California Press?

Anonymous said...

The newsweek cover is absolutely appalling. You have to wonder if this is not meant to stir up people?

Anonymous said...

Whether or not Faux News and the rest of CON-serva-DUMB media holds its own or the AP's feet to the fire over 11 fact checkers chasing Sarah Palin is of no importance.

Why?

Because Faux News and the rest of CON-serva-DUMB media had ample opportunity to discuss Obama's books at length - well before the presidential election - with Steve Sailer and and others, but chose (very deliberately) not to.

MarAkin said...

steve, if u wish to be taken seriously-- as an intellectual, and not a partisan hack (someone who would defend Palin.
)_

if.

Anonymous said...

Sort of apropos of the fund raising drive:-

If you have web design skills PLEASE donate some time and make Steve a blog template that's easier on the eyes (assuming Steve is OK with it).

Anonymous said...

Steve it's obvious. This low-IQ white-trash fundy breeder graduated from COMMUNITY COLLEGE; of course her book needs to be fact-checked for all the bimbo Creationist Fox News BS she's mixed into it. Hell, she may even say Down's Syndrome doesn't make a person leben unswertes - I mean, a life not worth living...what a howler!

Obama is a fine upstanding Harvard graduate, clearly one of the "right sort" if you know what I mean, and I think it would be nearly ungentlemanly to "fact-check" a book from such a prestigious figure.

Anonymous said...

Surely you don't believe that Fox News is "conservative". It's simply a way to make some money off of conservatives who are still dumb enough to believe that "someone is on their side" inside the MSM. Fox News and right-wing talk radio is a safety valve and/or a "judas goat" intended to control and neutralize "conservative" sheeple.

As long as we are divided into "liberals" and "conservatives" we'll never get a clue about what is really going on. Even exposing "liberal bias" in the MSM does nothing to address this problem. Not that these exposes ever change anything, anyway. We've had ample evidence of "liberal bias" in the MSM for 50 years yet this knowledge has not changed anything.

jody said...

i still think one of the most insulting things about barack obama as president is how almost nobody talks about his one relative, an aunt i think, is an illegal alien in the US.

it would be impossible for any euro american candidate for president to avoid all questions about that issue, and the subsequent bashing and discrediting as a "serious" candidate.

were he completely euro american, barack obama would have been forced to personally deport his relative during the campaign for president. that he didn't even have to worry about that, that axelrod didn't even have to take this issue into account or get it out of the way ahead of time, is very telling.

also, i still DO NOT GET how barack obama can get away with not showing his birth certificate. sure, i'm confident he is a natural born citizen, but erase all doubt - just show the document. why the games? any other candidate for president in the HISTORY of the US had zero, ZERO problems easily producing and showing their documents to everybody.

i do have the slightest doubt there, caused primarily by the way princeton tried to hide michelle obama's undergraduate thesis. that was open, naked, pro-black baloney, from an ivy league university no less. if they were willing to ruin their reputation to protect an underqualified african american, we need no more evidence that a positively goofy level of pro-black shenanigans could be occuring at any level of society.

jody said...

here's another example, hardly of much consequence, but totally stupid, as is almost every wildly, totally over the top positive reaction by white people to barack obama.

1) "steelers fan" barack obama on monday night football in 2006, rooting for the team that he is actually a fan of, the chicago bears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmWlrtpqp40

2) steelers owner dan rooney receives the lombardi trophy at the conclusion of superbowl 43 in 2009, and in an utterly ridiculous move, it only takes him 15 seconds to thank barack obama (long time major steelers fan, apparently, despite video evidence to the contrary)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiFRdJWHRg4

"steelers fan" barack obama, of course, rewarded dan rooney and his rooney rule, with a political appointment as ambassador to ireland.

Anonymous said...

I've been following closely the news about Barack meeting in China his half-brother, Mark, whom Steve wrote about.

He really seems to love Barack, but it seems unrequited. I can only think of a couple news outlets that seem to realize this. The rest are expelling much energy on Mark and his new, semi-autobiographical novel about how rotten their father was.

Mark has added to his name, "Obama" and credits Barack with helping him feel better about his background. Still, here is Barack on the meeting with CNN's Ed Henry:

President Obama said of Mark, "Well, you know, I don't know him well. I met him for the first time a couple of years ago. He stopped by with his wife for about five minutes during the trip. I haven't read the book.

"But it's no secret that my father was a troubled person. Anybody who's read my first book, 'Dreams of My Father,' knows that, you know, he had an alcoholism problem and that he didn't treat his families very well. And, you know, so, obviously, that's just a sad part of my history and my background. But it's not something that I -- I spend a lot of time brooding over."

It is not normal to see a brother, and one who flew in just for the occassion, for such a small amount of time. It is even worse to play it down (Barely know the guy! Only five minutes!). It also seems to me that Barack is implying that Mark is "brooding" or doing something otherwise seriously unpleasant.

For once, I'm glad the MSM is blind about something. How long until Barack blows due to the coverage of his dad? Mark seems to have come around much about roots, so it must be the Dad-exposing that would make Barack so cold.

Vernunft said...

Steve, do you ever think maybe it's the comment threads that ruin your reputation?

DCThrowback said...

@anon#7:

Yeah, "Faux" News is just for sheeple. You're a moron.

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1640-MUST-WATCH-Glenn-Beck-And-The-Dollar-Carry.html

I am not a Beck follower, but this is an outstanding segment, broken down so even those in the middle of the bell curve can understand what is happening with "in hock to the world" thesis that is springing up in the libertarian/paleo movement.

Jimmy Crackedcorn said...

But it's no secret that my father was a troubled person. Anybody who's read my first book, 'Dreams of My Father,' knows that, you know, he had an alcoholism problem and that he didn't treat his families very well.

Yeah, just don't mention that stuff about dad being communist and anti-American and wanting to and seize all the property of Europeans and Asians - cuts to close to the bone. American voters might start to wonder.

Obama can only bare to mention the weaknesses he and daddy don't share.

Anonymous said...

steve, they really need to get you and gladwell together on bloggingheads.

i would definitely pay to see that.

Kevin said...

Nice one Centurion

Middletown Girl said...

"steve, if u wish to be taken seriously-- as an intellectual, and not a partisan hack (someone who would defend Palin."

Sailer isn't defending Palin, dumbass. He's just pointing out how the media plays the game.

Truth said...

"This low-IQ white-trash fundy breeder graduated from COMMUNITY COLLEGE;"

She did not, she has a BS degree in Journalism from the University of Idaho.

"@anon#7:

Yeah, "Faux" News is just for sheeple. You're a moron."

No, actually I think he hit the nail squarely.

haha said...

MarAkin,
At least Palin gets the Sailer mortgage meltdown theory, and has a decent pair of legs and a pleasent stack, unlike Hillary.

dingdong said...

Vernunft sed:
Steve, do you ever think maybe it's the comment threads that ruin your reputation?

u mean the stuff critical of Israel?

l said...

Obviously, fact-checking Obama's book would have been racist.
What's disturbing to me is the relish liberals -- in the media and the blogosphere -- take in beating up women. Sarah Palin, Carrie Prejean.

Peter A said...

I'd say the fact the media is taking Palin's book seriously enough to fact check it is evidence of the anti-liberal bias in the media. A truly left wing media would treat Palin like the no account fraud she is and completely ignore her or mock her outright. Instead the media continue to pretend this woman has substance, it's embarrassing. Unless you're one of the conspiracy theorists who believe the media is building Palin up to make sure that no conservative who could challenge Obama can emerge. That theory actually makes some sense.

Robert said...

A quote from the article - "She doesn't come in the package they want her to come in."

Isn't this the criteria for all issues raised by the media?

Bruce Banned said...

Surely you don't believe that Fox News is "conservative". It's simply a way to make some money off of conservatives who are still dumb enough to believe that "someone is on their side" inside the MSM. Fox News and right-wing talk radio is a safety valve and/or a "judas goat" intended to control and neutralize "conservative" sheeple.

Great comment! BTW, much the same could be said about mainstream "conservatism". The GOP is merely the safety valve that the Liberal Regime uses to "control and neutralize conservative "sheeple"".
Let's not kid ourselves, there aren't any more genuine conservative politicians than journalists.

Anonymous said...

@DCThrowback: well if we're going to exchange insults, no, you're obviously the moron. There, that showed you, didn't it?

It's not often that I agree with Twoof, but Fox News is boob-bait for the American Booboosie and anyone who hasn't figured that out yet is too simple to be allowed outdoors without a leash.

Yeah, so Glenn Beck talks about some naughty stuff we aren't supposed to talk about. One swallow does not a summer make, and false or controlled opposition always lards its poison with morsels of the truth. So what if Mormon lunatic Glen Beck is allowed to lift back the veil of the truth from time to time. It's called "revelation of the method".

The sheeple won't do sh!t. Nothing is going to happen. Some people might watch that bit of Glenn Beck and start putting two and two together, but this sort of thing has been going on for decades and the clued-in opposition is as marginal today as it was decades ago. We merely think we're more numerous because we can gather together in internet ghettos like this (no offense to Steve). NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE by way of anything that is allowed to happen in the MSM.

If Glenn Beck ceases to be useful or crosses the line, he'll disappear or clam up just as quickly as the "dancing Israelis" and "Israeli art students/spy ring" story disappeared from Fox News and other MSM outlets shortly after 9/11/09.

These people are paid entertainers. They do not work for us. They'll rattle the cages of the Red Staters for long enough to swing the political balance a little back to the right, and then the entire Democrat/Republican charade will go through the entire cycle all over again. And the vast majority of people will be fooled again - unless the economy collapses completely and we enter revolutionary times. Until then, the Permanent Regime is safe.

Froggie said...

No, the poor and careless spelling.

David said...

Steve said

> America clearly needs a close analysis of the President of the United States' first book. But who could possibly know where to find such a thing? <

I found it!

Anonymous said...

Im the first "mean" anonymous of the thread, who suggested "conservative" media outlets (however flawed they may be) should find out -EXACTLY- who ordered 11 full-time employees to fact check Palin's book, and hold their feet to the fire on the issue.


Here we have a blatant expression of liberal bias, in an attempt to discredit a right-wing political figure, while not even fact checking a book by a now-president of the United States.

And some of you apparently think they should get a pass on this. No-no(!), some very-liberal-person-of-import at the AP made the decision to try to find -ANY-misstatement in Palin's book in an effort to discredit her, and further malign her more right wing brand of conservatism (as opposed to the wink-n'-nod brand the MSM approves of). Its a shame that the media could get away with something as obtuse as this folks, and no heads roll on it.

If the American Spectator got the MSM in such a tizzy all those years ago for sending little David Brock, all by his fey lonesome, to Little Rock to check up on those state trooper-Clinton-procurement rumors in Arkansas, then surely 11 reporters looking for dirt on Palin should make you all a little nauseated, no matter what you think of Palin.



I hate hate hate Lindsey Graham, but if the little-Amensty-loving-limp-wristed-sellout wrote a book, I'd raise my brows if Reuters dispatched 11 full-timers to find any glitch in it in order to discredit him before Carolina voters. The AP isn't even upholding the *appearance* of impartiality on this.



Never stop reminding the public of media bias. Media bias manufactures the outraged motivated conservatives that become effective out there. Its (unfortunately) the grain of sand in the oyster for many of us when we start out shrugging off years of indoctrination.

Anonymous said...

This was not 11 full-time reporters from AP News "fact-checking" everything in Palin's book.

There was one reporter assigned the responsibility who brought in 10 others to help check specific sections they had covered during the 2008 Presidential campaign. You know, because they were there.
It's a very different scenario when you think about it realistically. I've heard this explanation repeated by 2 or 3 different news networks. Let's move on...

It's amazing how much "controversy" is completely fabricated.

airtommy said...

From the Fox News article that Steve linked:

"The attraction to Palin doesn't appear to be partisan, since AP didn't fact-check recent political tomes by Republicans Rudy Giuliani or Newt Gingrich."

Anonymous said...

Totally off topic but this chilling news from Canada needs to be in the Steve-O-Sphere:

Ex-student off hook for $50K in loans

NOVA.SCOTIA (CBC) - A Nova Scotia court has ruled that a former university student does not have to pay back tens of thousands of dollars he borrowed from a bank.

Alfredo Abdo won his case in bankruptcy court this week, with the court concluding that the Royal Bank of Canada was at least partly responsible for what happened.


"I question whether advancing all that money at one time was prudent banking on the part of RBC," registrar Richard Cregan said in a written decision.

Abdo was a promising engineering student at Dalhousie University in September 2004. He had good grades, a scholarship and lived at home with this family.


In his second year, at the age of 19, he borrowed $20,000 from RBC though a student line of credit. He made bad investments online, according to court documents, and he accepted an offer from the bank for another loan of $30,000 to solve his problem.


Abdo started having dizzy spells. Finding his engineering program very stressful, he switched to commerce. But he dropped out of university in his third year.


The dizziness and social anxiety never went away, Abdo said, and therefore he couldn't work or pay back the bank loans. He filed for bankruptcy last November.


RBC argued that Abdo shouldn't be let off of the hook.


The former student, who lives with his mother, represented himself in court during a hearing in October. He asked to sit down when presenting his case.


Cregan said he believed the young man suffers health problems and has no job prospects, and he questioned why the bank loaned the $30,000 when it didn't appear to be related to Abdo's studies.


"I take it simply to be a loan to an immature 19-year-old investor out of his depth to temporarily solve a financial problem. RBC took the risk," Cregan wrote.


Abdo, now 23, was discharged from bankruptcy and is no longer responsible for the loans.


It's not known whether the bank will appeal.


-Canadian universities don't have tests for entrance, relying on subjective grades.

-There are like 12 immigrants in all of Atlantic Canada (pop. over a million)
-So now we're giving AA failures fifty grand for their troubles, free.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/091119/canada/canada_novascotia_ns_student_bankruptcy

dr kill said...

Does anyone have a realistic explanation why Palin discombobulates some folks?

It is not as simple as State v private education, xtian v atheist, anti v pro abortion, old v new feminist or east v west.

I am confused by ridicule and hate where I would expect support and v v. Nothing like it anywhere.

josh said...

I saw a bit of Conan O'Brien a few nites ago. He made 3--count 'em 3--straight Palin jokes,not one of which was funny or even displayed the slightest bit of wit. This from a guy who is sometimes pretty funny. (I never,btw,watch Craig Ferguson,for a variety of reasons but mainly cuz we dont get channel 2 out here too well...but he may be very funny,as his mockery of the infamous Tom Cruise "laughing" interview was hysterical. Go on-- look on youtube!) So he ordered 3 Palin jokes,and inserted them into the monologue even tho they were painfully pointless and unfunny. OK you dont like Palin-neither do I,but why this sick mania to 'get' her??Obv they think she will be the real Hillary,the girl who can grab the red womens vote and pry off enough of the blue women to create a winning coalition,and break up the Alliance Of Evil,the creepy women and minority block that elected the savior. And she just might. I heard her on Limbaugh. When he asked her about immeegration,she replied that ILLEGAL immeegration is, well,ILLEGAl and so its baaaad! But if its not illegal anymore...not to mention the wars this nutcase would get us into,as her need to show she's "tough" dovetails nicely with the aims of the neocons she clings to to tell her what she thinks. What was that book again--"We Are Doomed"???

Anonymous said...

It turns out Barry was better off for not having his father around. His half-brother Mark said that Barak Obama, Sr, regularly beat him and his mother.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/18/obama.half.brother/index.html


'...he claims that he was often physically abused by his father, Barack Obama Sr.

"What I wanted to do is write about my father," he said. "My father beat me. He beat my mother."

Mark Obama went on to say that oftentimes, he heard thuds coming from the living room and would "hear my mother's screams and my father shouting."

"I wanted to protect her ... but I couldn't do anything.'

Svigor said...

Dems and the left HATE Palin. So she can't be all bad. I suspect it's her charisma. They still clench their teeth when they think about Reagan. They want to be the only ones with a cult of personality.

Harry Baldwin said...

In the WaPo article about the president's half-brother, Mark Ndesandjo, he says, "My father beat me. He beat my mother. And you just don't do that. . . . I shut those thoughts in the back of my mind for many years. . . .I remember times in my house when I would hear the screams, and I would hear my mother's pain. I was a child. . . . I could not protect her."

This raises a question: if Barack Sr beat Mark's mother, doesn't it seem likely that he also beat Barack's mother? His parents separated when Barack Jr was two, so I'm not sure what psychological effect it may have had on him, but growing up in an abusive home, where lying to oneself becomes a defense mechanism, is a common background trait of habitual liars, according to psychologists. This interests me because I believe Barack is a habitual liar, whether compulsive or pathological. The noted liar Bill Clinton came from a similar background.

In recent electoral campaigns, it has struck me that the habitual liar has an advantage in that he can say whatever he thinks will be most helpful to him in any given situation, yet shows no embarrassment at being caught in an inconsistency. It wouldn't work if you didn't have the media on your side, of course.

albertosaurus said...

If you have web design skills PLEASE donate some time and make Steve a blog template that's easier on the eyes (assuming Steve is OK with it).

Well I guess that's me. I have designed and/or created a lot of web sites but I don't think the iSteve Blog is all that bad. His other site is really ugly but this blog is OK. Simple and functional.

Jerry Pournelle has a really terrible site and Mark Steyn's is also pretty bad but I still read those because of content.

My advice to Steve is ignore web mechanics as much as possible. Blog less and write another book.

dearieme said...

I suspect that there's a wee bit of Asperger's or Autism to O.

Anonymous said...

His parents separated when Barack Jr was two

NO!!!

We know for a fact that Stanley Ann Dunham had surfaced as a single mother, in mid-August of 1961, in the state of Washington, where she was enrolled as a student at the University of Washington in Seattle.

We have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that BHO Sr was present for the ostensible birth in Hawaii, on August 4th, or, for that matter, even any evidence that the birth took place in Hawaii [for all we know, it might have taken place just across the border from Seattle, in Vancouver, British Columbia].

RobertHume said...

"Does anyone have a realistic explanation why Palin discombobulates some folks?"

I agree, I've friends who seem irrational on the subject, and it's a bit baffling. I always say that she'd be a nice neighbor, but I wouldn't want her to be president. But most of my friends seem to think that she would be unbearable even just as a neighbor.

I think their personal experience of white people in her class is so limited, and they have been told so constantly that those folks are racist ... that they are just flumoxxed. I guess it's still a bit of a mystery.

I guess they can't come to grips with someone who seems wholesome and bright and attractive and who, nonetheless criticizes liberals.

Reactionary said...

They still clench their teeth when they think about Reagan.

Hell, you can still get them worked up over Nixon and Pinochet. It's like every liberal baby boomer out there is perpetually mad at their parents.

David said...

dr kill said

> Does anyone have a realistic explanation why Palin discombobulates some folks? [...] I am confused by ridicule and hate where I would expect support and v v. Nothing like it anywhere <

I have an explanation but it won't sound good. It comes in two parts, and it's the first part that will get me in trouble.

1. She's a cheery gentile. In my experience, the people with the most visceral unreasoning hatred of her - amounting to a mania or obsession (i.e., they can't stop talking about her and frequently rant about her apropos of nothing) - are Joan Rivers-type Jews. Their hatred has insane depths, and boils out irrepressibly. Although it has a distinctly Jewish feel, they can't keep themselves from expressing it out in the open, loudly and clearly. (An infamous but telling example.) Everybody else is sort of following their lead on this, an example being the people in the next part:

2. She didn't abort her children, not even the one with Downs, is more or less successful with them, and is anti-abortion. Covered already in the right-wing media, the theory here is that the bad conscience of single women and couples who have had abortions is piqued by Palin's prominence.

It is a crazy-sounding explanation; but the really amazing personal hatred Palin inspires is also crazy. I agree, there's nothing like it anywhere, at least not in regard to someone who hasn't done significant damage (as contrasted with W, for example).

Tanstaafl said...

"The attraction to Palin doesn't appear to be partisan, since AP didn't fact-check recent political tomes by Republicans Rudy Giuliani or Newt Gingrich."

Right, it isn't partisan, it's ethno-racial.

The paranoid/neurotic opinion-shapers fear and loath Palin because they fear and loath the decidedly White gun- and bible-clinging demographic she attracts and represents.

Half Sigma said...

I hope they find some good dirt on Palin, and then a fact-checking eye towards Obama.

Half Sigma said...

Anyway, Steve Sailer spent more time fact-checking Obama's book than these 11 AP reporters combined probably will spend on Palin, and I doubt that any of these AP reporters are as talented as Steve.

Anonymous said...

"The paranoid/neurotic opinion-shapers fear and loath Palin because they fear and loath the decidedly White gun- and bible-clinging demographic she attracts and represents."

That pretty well sums it up. Even as a conservative I'm not a big Palin fan but the venom thrown her way was just disturbing as hell. Once at another online forum I frequent this liberal New York gal exclaimed, "I wish she would just stop having kids!"

WTF? You don't have to bear them. You don't have to raise them.
I'm not in the Palin for President crowd but what she and her oil-worker, moose-hunting husband embodied- an unapologetically patriotic, work with their hands family- drove the SWPL crowd absolutely nuts.

-Vanilla Thunder

Peter A said...

Does anyone have a realistic explanation why Palin discombobulates some folks?

Because some people still think the USA is a great and important country. Her nomination was an insult to those people. I think America should strive to produce great thinkers, leaders and creators. Jeffersons, Franklins, Edisons, Kennans, Reagans and Friedmans. Giving America away to the howling populist mob seems to me to be a stupid response to America drifting to the left.

Tanstaafl said...

YouTube - Matthews: Palin Supporters Are White Racists

Anonymous said...

"I suspect that there's a wee bit of Asperger's or Autism to O."

I have more than a wee bit of Asperger's myself and I haven't noticed any of it in Obama. I've seen him effortlessly engage in smalltalk at the start of TV interviews. When needed he can be very charming. Nerdy folks tend to be literal-minded and fact-based. Obama's oratorical style is all fluff and feelings. It works partly because he's good at projecting those feelings to the audience. That's not a nerdy trait.

The only Aspergery post-war US president was Nixon.

Tanstaafl said...

David, your explanation isn't crazy-sounding. I reviewed several examples of the visceral unreasoning hatred you describe in The Election is Over, written about this time last year.

Anonymous said...

"Does anyone have a realistic explanation why Palin discombobulates some folks?"

Full disclosure: a) I am a woman b) I once was a liberal--a devoted, full believer c) I am now grown up and a conservative

I believe four things are in operation here:

1) Liberals really *do* feel superior to her and to those of her "ilk" --(read here their disdain for her intelligence and education .... or lack thereof). After all, people of all stripes enjoy making fun of those to whom they feel superior especially if that person gets any kind of positive attention; while Palin has gotten plenty of negative attention, she's also garnered plenty of the positive. So, chalk up some of this to people engaging in the fun of feeling superior.

Ah, but that's not enough to explain the number of those who are "discombobulated" by her or the intensity of their contempt, is it? So....


2.) Lots of libs grow apoplectic by claims that common sense is superior to "book learnin.'" For years they've endured criticism from friends and family that they have book smarts but no life smarts. I think Palin's success is a painful reminder to them of that very personal criticism. And, the criticism stings because it's often true.

3.) The lib knows that his or her world view doesn't foster or promote self-reliance. Shots of Palin and hubby fishing, hunting, etc. remind them that they wouldn't last two seconds in that environment. Say what you want about Palin and family, but Alaskans really *are* different--they *are* more self-sufficient than the average Jane and John who live in the city or the suburbs. They are can-do people. It pisses off those who aren't to see this woman whom they realize has more spunk than they, especially since they feel intellectually superior to her. Perhaps on an unconscious level, they realize that from an evolutionary standpoint, the Palins are more fit than they.

4. Lastly, and most importantly, when libs see how popular Palin is with millions, I think they see something that scares the everlovin' crap out of them: one day in the not-so-distant future a woman as physically attractive as Sarah Palin, but one having greater political skills and capital than she, will capture the Presidency, and she will be an unabashed---- CONSERVATIVE. They are scared shitless about that. Oh, their world will be shattered.

Palin is a constant reminder of that eventuality.

airtommy said...

Does anyone have a realistic explanation why Palin discombobulates some folks?

Stop using Occam's Butterknife. The answer is staring you in the face: She's stupid.

In her speeches and interviews, she sounds like the dumbest White House candidate in at least half a century. Every time she speaks, she reveals that she doesn't even know what the issues are, let alone how to solve them.

Americans like to pretend that politicians have the ability to overrule lobbyists and special interests and make their own judgements. We like to pretend the system is not yet completely bankrupt. Palin doesn't hide the fact that she won't try to get in the way of the special interest freight train. She represents a complete capitulation to Washington DC powerbrokers.

Svigor said...

Hell, you can still get them worked up over Nixon and Pinochet. It's like every liberal baby boomer out there is perpetually mad at their parents.

Yeah but the hatred of Reagan is distinct from Nixon because they aren't/weren't jealous of Nixon. They hate Reagan double-plus because he was charismatic.

Svigor said...

Maybe as a previous poster suggested, the left double-plus hate Palin and Reagan because they screw with SWPL self-image; Palin and Reagan are/were just too damn good-looking, charismatic, and self-assured for the right. Don't they know they're supposed to be sitting at our table?

Who/whom stuff, kinda; all those celebs are lefties because being famous and good looking go hand in hand with leftism, dontchaknow. This might help explain the Bush II-hatred, too; maybe he had a bit too much swagger, even if he wasn't an orator.

Anonymous said...

"The only Aspergery post-war US president was Nixon."

I forgot Harry Truman. Nerdy politicians aren't as rare as one would expect. The Portuguese dictator Salazar was another one. John Major? I don't know enough about him to be certain, but it's a possibility.

Svigor said...

4. Lastly, and most importantly, when libs see how popular Palin is with millions, I think they see something that scares the everlovin' crap out of them

That's pretty much what I was getting at. It isn't her positions, it isn't any given thing about her, it's all these things combined with the fact that she's got political superstar written all over her. Plenty of folks have all but that superstar quality, and they don't arouse the ire of the establishment the way Palin has.

Airtommy, tons of Republicans are stupid as far as the left are concerned. But as long as they're duds like McCain...

Tanstaafl said...

Stop using Occam's Butterknife. The answer is staring you in the face: She's stupid.

No stupider than McCain, Biden, or Oteleprompter.

She represents a complete capitulation to Washington DC powerbrokers.

It's OK. We can say Israel Lobby here.

l said...

"Does anyone have a realistic explanation why Palin discombobulates some folks?"

Forget her politics and her folksy persona, Palin is physically very attractive. She's the cheerleader/beauty queen most liberal ('beta', to quote Roissy) guys could never get in bed. Liberal woman despise her because when her kind is around, they're invisible to men.

Tino said...

“No stupider than McCain, Biden, or Oteleprompter.”

We can’t know her IQ for sure, but she is clearly far less knowledgeable than any of those. Until she can hold her own (which I suspect is never, because she has a low IQ) she should go away. She is hurting the right.

Are we suppose not to notice that the woman cannot put together a coherent sentence about the economy? All she has to offer are clich├ęs.

Palin is an affirmative action politician, like Obama. One for gender and one for race.

dr kill said...

Thank you all for your opinions. Thoughtful comments are the reason I appreciate ISteve.
But what I'm trying to understand is why hysteria provoked was instant and instinctual , not the usual tired post-reaction explanations the haters trot out as rational justification to each other.
I feel they hate out of fear, but use any other reason to avoid appearing irrational to their peeps.
I can't understand why they are scared of her. Unless she generals a bunch of Afghani/Iranian pirates to win the Battle of Tehran 12 days after King Barry I signs a peace accord with The surviving Shia' Mullah, she is no danger to the S Q.
This is not politics-as-usual.

Anonymous said...

Stop using Occam's Butterknife. The answer is staring you in the face: She's stupid.

Come off it!

When has that held other people back?

airtommy said...

tons of Republicans are stupid as far as the left are concerned. But as long as they're duds like McCain...

No stupider than McCain, Biden, or Oteleprompter.


This is inane. McCain, Biden, Obama etc have total command of the issues. They often have impromptu conversations on the issues. Palin is genuinely unaware of the existence of at least half the issues and on the other half she spews nothing but talking points.

She represents a complete capitulation to Washington DC powerbrokers.

It's OK. We can say Israel Lobby here.


I meant big business, military, etc, not the Israeli lobby. Palin was not as much of a Zionist as one would expect from a Megachurch nut.

Stopped Clock said...

Steve created his own website, iSteve.com, from the ground up, without building on any templates. I'm sure he could make this one look like that one if he wanted (blogger is very flexible, allowing complete control over every element that appears on the blog, unlike Wordpress).

Anonymous said...

"u mean the stuff critical of Israel?"

No, it's more like the racist comments, especially towards blacks.

Alias said...

The thing that irritates me about Palin is the way she spews sentence fragments. At least Obama speaks in complete, coherent sentences.

Otherwise, she might represent an interesting development as a quasi-racialist political figure, which in the American mainstream means someone who does not hasten to demean themselves as a white person and who is willing to offend minority group activists and liberals with very mild common sense comments. You can see her setting herself up for this with her "profiling" remark. Unfortunately, she probably wouldn't be able to provide a definition of "profiling" if asked.

Svigor said...

Oh, the anon I quoted #4 from has an excellent point here: the prospect that Republicans could beat Democrats to the post with a woman candidate, and get the first female President, has got to be terrifying to liberals. That's their turf.

Anonymous said...

-McCain, Biden, Obama etc have total command of the issues.-

Obama is all over the Afghan stuff! Biden, well, who knows. McCain, has no clue. Man, you're an idiot. Maybe you could kowtow like our POTUS, that's total command...

Mr. Anon said...

"Reactionary said...

Hell, you can still get them worked up over Nixon and Pinochet. It's like every liberal baby boomer out there is perpetually mad at their parents."

I've noticed that too. With a lot of liberals, it's as though it will always be 1972 and they're still fighting those dinner-table battles with their parents about McGovern vs. Nixon. They would never dream of voting other than democrat because to do so would mark them as some kind of hopelessly square, Lawrence-Welk-watching Republican pig, like Nixon.....or their parents. Politics as generational fashion statement.

Anonymous said...

The thing that irritates me about "Palin is the way she spews sentence fragments. At least Obama speaks in complete, coherent sentences."

His teleprompted speaks in sentences.I think Palin should borrow it. Whenever his teleprompted keels over, he sounds like a blithering idiot. You mean you haven't noticed this? Oh--you're a bot.

Mr. Anon said...

"RobertHume said...

I agree, I've friends who seem irrational on the subject, and it's a bit baffling. I always say that she'd be a nice neighbor, but I wouldn't want her to be president. But most of my friends seem to think that she would be unbearable even just as a neighbor."

I entirely agree. Palin is nice, upstanding, level-headed, and attractive, with a regular-guy husband (not a multi-millionaire wheeler-deeler like Feinstein's husband) and all-american looking kids. Almost as if Marie Osmond had gone into politics (but without the whole, weird Mormon thing). Liberals hate her - because she's so damned normal and decent. They would prefer her to be a foul-mouthed, chain-smoking slattern, with tattoos, bad-teeth, and a paid-up membership in the klan.

I like the fact that she drives the left crazy. However, and despite the nice things I've said about her, I would not want her to be President. I don't trust her conservative instincts - they do not run deep enough. She could all too easily become just another RINO, especially with the guidance she is likely to get from the hacks who run the Republican party.

Weston said...

Stop using Occam's Butterknife. The answer is staring you in the face: She's stupid.


How do you explain the fact that SWPLs LOVE blacks and never ever criticize them? It really cannot be emphasized enough how much the same groups that despise Palin love sub-Saharan Africans. (At least in word.)

And no one would be asking this question if the criticism of Palin was sensible, reasonable criticism directed at a less than brilliant politician. It's not. It's an intensely visceral and vulgar hatred often aimed at Palin as a *person*. Does Palin really deserve to get gang-raped just for being stupid? That seems a bit extreme to me.

Anonymous said...

A foul-mouthed slattern with tattoos, perfect teeth and a paid-up membership in the Sierra Club pretty much describes the Liberal gals - age 23 to 48 - of today.

Reactionary said...

This is inane. McCain, Biden, Obama etc have total command of the issues. They often have impromptu conversations on the issues. Palin is genuinely unaware of the existence of at least half the issues and on the other half she spews nothing but talking points.

What issues do your three demi-gods have total command of?
Ethnic cleansing-levels of immigration? Artificially suppressed interest rates that warp the entire structure of production? (Remember McCain saying he'd like interest rates to be 'zero?' Time is just a social construct in Little John's world, apparently). The exceptionalist belief that since secular democracy works so well in the West, the West is duty-bound to impose it on the non-West? How's that one turning out?

Here's the thing: maybe all those great big issues don't matter. Maybe, instead of trying to social engineer the entire planet and in the process unleashing social and economic forces we cannot control, we ought to focus on piddly shit like an efficient, accountable civil service, affordable family formation, safety from criminal elements, etc.

And instead of trying to solve the world's problems, the US can tell Israel and Europe to worry about their own military defense. And the US can tell the Third World solve your own bloody problems, because the guilt account is WAY, WAY overdrawn.

I'll stop there, because I have a long f***ing list of 'issues' I'm getting tired of people pissing away my tax dollars to have COMMAND of.

Now, I'm not saying Palin's the person to do this, but I've had about all I can stand of social engineering gasbags like your holy trinity of Democratically Elected God-men. Palin sounds ignorant because she's devoted her life to the near and dear instead of utopian schemes to run the world.

Tanstaafl said...

Pissed about Palin, Sep 10, 2008:

McCain's running mate is a Christian Stepford wife in a sexy librarian costume. Women, it's time to get furious.

. . .

Sarah Palin and her virtual burqa have me and my friends retching into our handbags. She's such a power-mad, backwater beauty-pageant casualty, it's easy to write her off and make fun of her. But in reality I feel as horrified as a ghetto Jew watching the rise of National Socialism.

She is dangerous. She is not just pro-life, she's
anti-life.

"I find her offensive", Oct 6, 2008:

John McCain was making a bid for South Florida's Jewish voters, a crucial demographic in a purple state. But then he chose Sarah Palin as a running mate.

"I was leaning towards McCain," growled Marvin Weinstein, 74, as he strode to an appointment in a doctor's office. "But I think his choice of her has turned me off."

"What I hear is she's an awful anti-Semite," George Friedberg said as he sat curbside in his Escalade. "She won't be getting my vote." Friedberg's wife, Florence, appeared at the passenger-side door, shopping bags in hand. "I was leaning towards McCain, but after he selected her I've ruled him out completely. I find her offensive."

Tanstaafl said...

Palin Pick Puts Many Women on the Verge - September 19, 2008 - The New York Sun (emphasis added):

A posting on a New York-based Web site for women, Jezebel.com, spoke of unbridled anger. "What I feel for her privately could be described as violent, nay, murderous, rage," an associate editor at Jezebel, Jessica Grose, wrote just after the Republican convention wrapped up. "When Palin spoke on Wednesday night, my head almost exploded from the incandescent anger boiling in my skull."

Ms. Grose was not alone. More than 700 comments poured in, many from women who said they were experiencing a visceral hostility to Mrs. Palin that they were struggling to explain.

"When I see people crowing about her 'acceptable' speech last Wednesday ... I literally want to vomit with rage," a comment from Anibundel said.

"I am shocked by the depths of my hatred for this woman," another commenter, CJWeimar, wrote.

"It is impossible for me not to read about her in the newspaper in the subway every morning on my way to work and not come into the office angry and wanting to kick things," a commenter using the name ChampagneofBeers wrote. "My boxing class definitely helps."

Even some prominent figures admitted to being overcome by anti-Palin feelings. "I am having Sarah Palin nightmares," an acclaimed playwright and writer, Eve Ensler, wrote on the Huffington Post. She said she was disturbed by the chants about oil and gas drilling during Mrs. Palin's speech to the Republican convention. "I think of rape. I think of destruction. I think of domination," Ms. Ensler wrote.

airtommy said...

How do you explain the fact that SWPLs LOVE blacks and never ever criticize them? It really cannot be emphasized enough how much the same groups that despise Palin love sub-Saharan Africans.

That's a good point on a generalized basis, but not for this case. What black politician has come onto the national stage without the slightest clue what issues are at stake? None.

I think the pool of conservatives is big enough that you can find one who can speak in complete sentences. The White House is worthy of that, isn't it?

Tanstaafl said...

Georgetown/On Faith: Jewish Religious Imaging for Sarah Palin? - Jacques Berlinerblau, October 30, 2008 (his emphasis):

The Palin Effect: Two of the speakers observed that John McCain's selection of a running mate may have turned away Jewish voters who were once supportive of him. On Wednesday, I pointed out that this apparent "Palin Effect" has occurred despite the fact that the Governor of Alaska has made no egregious errors in her dealings with the Jewish community and has, in many cases, said the right things and cultivated the right relationships.

john said...

Biased media? Nah, couldn't be. I don't know whether I like Sarah or not; all I "know" about her is what the smirking MSM has said (which I discount) and what she said under the influence of McCain's neocon masters during the campaign (which I discount).

I think she was a decent, moral person with traditional American values (that's enough to make the MSM hate her) but now she is a politician, so who knows what she might do in office.

Oh, incidentally, thinking of media fairness, has anyone seen "By the People: the Election of Barack Obama" which is running on HBO? I don't have the stomach to watch, but I hope HBO doesn't rip into poor BO too hard.

Jimmy Crackedcorn said...

It turns out Barry was better off for not having his father around. His half-brother Mark said that Barak Obama, Sr, regularly beat him and his mother.

No way!! You mean Barry Obama was better off being raised in Hawai'i by a stable, intelligent grandma who was a bank vice-president than by his alcoholic, abusive, communist father? Surely you jest.

Of course he was better off not being raised by his father. We knew that when we barely knew who Barry Jr. was.

Stop using Occam's Butterknife. The answer is staring you in the face: She's stupid.

She isn't stupid in the day-to-day sense, but she's certainly stupid in the "she should be our next president sense." Then again, so are Joe Biden, John Kerry, Al Gore and Barack Obama.

Look, just because the woman attracts all the right enemies doesn't mean she should be the next GOP nominee. Just because she'd be fun to have a beer with (or do, ahem, other things with) doesn't mean she she should be the next nominee. This isn't the f---ing Arab desert: our enemy's enemy is not our next presidential candidate.

Fun to have a beer with, loathed by the liberals - hmmm, that remind you of anyone? Oh yeah - George W Bush, and he was a great conservative president, wasn't he?

The thing that irritates me about Palin is the way she spews sentence fragments. At least Obama speaks in complete, coherent sentences.

When talking about something other than the fact that his father was from Africa and how he has family that looks like a United Nations?

Mmm Mmm Mmm Barack Hussein Obama has NO command of "the issues." Zero. None. Nil.

Jimmy Crackedcorn said...

I mentioned it in my prior post but I will say it again (and separately): those of you who would use the facts that Sarah Palin has a nice family, would be fun to hang out with, and drives the Left insane as justification for her being the next president are being stupid.

George W Bush drove the Left insane, and would've been fun to have a beer with (if he weren't an AA teetotaller). He was not a great president. He wasn't even a conservative president.

No, your enemy's enemy is not your friend. It may be a truism in the Middle East, but then look how screwed up the Middle East it.

Jimmy Crackedcorn said...

I never,btw,watch Craig Ferguson,for a variety of reasons but mainly cuz we dont get channel 2 out here too well

Craig Ferguson has by far the best monologues of all the talk show hosts.

Alias said...

His teleprompted speaks in sentences.I think Palin should borrow it. Whenever his teleprompted keels over, he sounds like a blithering idiot. You mean you haven't noticed this? Oh--you're a bot.

Yeah, without his "teleprompted", Obama can barely speak English! I guess I hallucinated those interviews and non-scripted statements he made that showed an excellent command of the language.

Thanks for the laugh. Your comment is nearly as incoherent as a multi-claused Sarah Palin sentence. If you weren't such a "bot" yourself, you might have noticed that I'm sympathetic to Palin and not an Obama fan. Nevertheless, anyone who hasn't noticed that, in this case, the mixed-race man is more articulate than the white woman is biased and lacking in seriousness.

Anonymous said...

Anyone hazard a guess as to what "virtual burqa" refers to? Palin doesn't dress any more conservatively than any other woman in politics or business, so it couldn't possibly have to do with her clothing choices.

Svigor said...

American Spectator has a piece up right now on the Palin media thing.

Maybe this is another example of what I'm talking about:

FOXNEWS HANNITY/PALIN 4,200,000
FOXNEWS O'REILLY 3,868,000
FOXNEWS BECK 2,512,000
FOXNEWS GRETA 2,383,000
FOXNEWS BAIER 2,235,000
FOXNEWS SHEP 1,980,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 1,041,000
CNNHN GRACE 1,036,000
MSNBC MADDOW 957,000
CNN KING 835,000
MSNBC HARDBALL 625,000
CNN COOPER 611,000

But, but...the media is supposed to be ours!

stringutrsiuwwerrtgljksdf said...

dr kill,
I find Palin's pro-Israel automaton reactions nauseating, in fact insulting. But I think it’s a sign of the political death culture which AIPAC have established in the US. Apart from that she's the only female pol I can look at without compensating my eyesight. The other pols talk crap all day, make bad decisions and are usually either perverts or ugly as shit.

Anonymous said...

So was Komment Kontrol displeased by the reference to Uncle Frank's ephebophilia?

BTW, it's kinda strange [and more than a little depressing] to see all of these paleo-nihilist comments [disparaging Sarah Palin] making their way through to the surface.

Is that an honest reflection of you readership, is it an Axelrodian astroturfing campaign, or does it simply reflect Komment Kontrol's own predilections?

Anonymous said...

Yeah, without his "teleprompted", Obama can barely speak English! I guess I hallucinated those interviews and non-scripted statements he made that showed an excellent command of the language.

Good catch bot. I aim at easy targets too. At least you get a hit here and there.
But you see, obot-who-claims-to-be-a-Palin-fan, -- I'm not running for President or up there trying to be POTUS, leader of the free world.
I've heard BO without the teleprompter; millions have and he can't hack it. He is fed his words by Favreau, which works up to a point. Got him elected. Just think--we used to believe he was a brilliant writer of an illuminating autobiography. Now we know he's not, he even tacitly admits it, and the world goes on pretending he's articulate, this man of virtually no known writings or academic history. He goes to Co0penhagen with Oprah and wife along, gives lame speeches about himself and expects the world to vote for Chicago just because he lived there. The world voted alright. He's so lame when Fraveau and Co. are not his script writers. Go on being the Palin "fan" you claim to be. She'll be as disillusioning as BO, but at least she'll be more honestly "into" respecting the fact American citizens are the electorate she serves.

Tanstaafl said...

Jewish voters may be wary of Palin - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com, 9/2/08:

“There is almost always an inverse proportion between a candidate's popularity among conservative Christians and secular Jews,” said Jeff Ballabon, a Republican lobbyist long active in Jewish politics who supports McCain.

Tanstaafl said...

Sarah Palin gives Oprah biggest audience in two years -- The Live Feed | THR, November 18, 2009:

Winfrey began the interview by asking Palin if she felt snubbed at not getting an invitation to appear on the show last year. Winfrey said she didn't have any candidates on her Chicago-based show during the campaign because of her support for President Barack Obama.

Tanstaafl said...

A visceral unreasoning hatred similar to "the Palin Effect" is aimed at Glenn Beck and to a lesser degree also at Limbaugh, Hannity, and O'Reilly, and for the same ethno-racial reasons.

None of these men are any stupider or have any less of a command of the issues than Olbermann, Maddow, Matthews, or Cooper. It isn't partisan so much as it is that the "conservatives" appeal to the decidedly White gun- and bible-clinging demographic that the "liberals" despise.

Mr. Anon said...

"airtommy said...

That's a good point on a generalized basis, but not for this case. What black politician has come onto the national stage without the slightest clue what issues are at stake? None."

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, to name two. A chalatan and a buffoon respectively. Granted, they were not elected, but they certainly trod on the national stage. And they were treated far more reverentially by the political class than Palin has been, despite their obvious shortcomings.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad there are some people who have noticed that Obama is a joke.

Jimmy Crackedcorn said...

NRO posted a link to this map showing the change in unemployment rates by county from January 2007 to September 2009. Interesting of itself, but I looked at the colors they used to distinguish unemployment rates and it struck me as an analogy for, well...something else.

Alias said...

"Good catch bot... But you see, obot-who-claims-to-be-a-Palin-fan"

You remind me of commenters at some mainstream neocon sites who jeer "liberal" at anyone who pokes any holes in their braindead talking points. This blog normally maintains a higher standard of discourse than that.

Anonymous said...

Reactionary,

Thank you. Well said.

Dutch Boy said...

The last words on Palin:
1. Fairly good-looking
2. Not particularly bright but not notably stupid
3. Is not well-educated nor does she possess a deep comprehension of public affairs, political philosophy or anything else (except maybe wolf hunting or basketball)
4. Is relatively virtuous in a society filled with those who are not (although I have a problem with a woman who takes care of politics first rather than her family)
5. Is widely disliked on the Left for obscure reasons likely related to race/religion/class and the Left's general psychological disorientation
6. Is not remotely qualified to be the chief executive of the USA for the reasons cited above and because the lacunae in her mind and education have been filled with NeoCon Republicanism (she was halfway there already with her Christian Zionism).

David said...

Reactionary, well done.

I don't give a damn whether she can rattle off Middle East minutiae etc. to the satisfaction of NPR News groupies. Most of the stuff deemed "the essence of serious politics" these days - from cap 'n' trade to naming all the two-by-four five-revolutions-per-decade nominal nations on the other side of the globe's crust has and had as much to do with the citizens of the USA and their real interests as the fine print in a Dungeons & Dragons rule book has. Ninety-nine percent of what's on the broken Beltway or is in the media is bogglingly irrelevant, a criminal distraction from the deliberate decline and destruction of our interests as a people and nation. It's a load of elitist horses---- excreted and accreted over the past 60 years, full of sound and fury, signifying not much.

The POTUS is *neither* President of the World *nor* of Harvard University *nor* of dual citizens in New York City. I want *my* POTUS to keep taxes low, immigrants out, our nose out of foreign quarrels, and to reduce the debt. She can do these things (with her party - or without it) in complete sentences or in fragments; either way is fine with me.

But this is not a position to sit well with the following people, who likely find the mad minutiae I reviewed to be just their element:

> "What I hear is she's an awful anti-Semite," George Friedberg said as he sat curbside in his Escalade. "She won't be getting my vote." Friedberg's wife, Florence, appeared at the passenger-side door, shopping bags in hand. "I was leaning towards McCain, but after he selected her I've ruled him out completely. I find her offensive." <

Anonymous said...

Maybe I missed something, David, but who are George and Florence Friedberg and where is your quotation from?

ben tillman said...

Ninety-nine percent of what's on the broken Beltway or is in the media is bogglingly irrelevant, a criminal distraction from the deliberate decline and destruction of our interests as a people and nation.

Exactly.

Anonymous said...

"Dutch Boy said...
The last words on Palin: ....."
yada yada yada.

Grow up Dutch Boy. Just making sure your post is the "last word" does not make it so. Some things are out of your control and beyond your ken. This woman is absolutely no less qualified than BO. She has certainly demonstrated more admin experience in domestic politics. Absolutely sure on that. So it all depends on who decides to promote her.

Anonymous said...

"You remind me of commenters at some mainstream neocon sites who jeer "liberal" at anyone who pokes any holes in their braindead talking points. This blog normally maintains a higher standard of discourse than that."

hmmm.

Do you say that as a typical, generic liberal? Or do you fancy yourself an Original?
The "intellectual discourse" on this blog is not normally "higher", at least not what I've seen. I'm about average, so I think you're just trying to insult me in that intellectual liberal way, n'est-ce pas?

Having spent most of my life as a "liberal" I know whereof I jeer. Nobody deserves it more, because nobody does it better themselves.

We know all the liberal blah blah. All MSM, my old college text books, and a town full of moonbats with $200,000 plus a year jobs, million dollar houses, kids in private schools and Obama stickers on their bumpers. I think most of their jobs depend on government (party matters little) theft from the taxpayer, so it's understandable.

While I understand you mode of insult, what I don't get is the assertion that the talking points are somehow "dead?" Says who? You, the generic liberal?
The talking points here are intensely alive. People are worried for their financial lives and the continuation of their culture, and in some cases, their very identity. What I want to know is, what makes your "talking points" alive? To us, I mean. As long as you make lots of money and can get away from the consequences of your beliefs and actions, perhaps it doesn't matter. However, many of the rest of us can't. That's part of what makes a "conservative" as I have found out.

But I'm all for free speech. May the best Bot win.
Go do battle with all those generic conversatives you say you know so well. There are forums full of those with little worldly experience, where your insights might seem original and pungent and could perhaps inflict some mortal wounds. Times a-wasting here, where you won't convince anybody, certainly not yours truly.