January 13, 2010

Not from The Onion

The New York Times today appears to be trying to illustrate Auster's First Law of Majority-Minority Relations in a Liberal Society:
"The worse any designated minority or alien group behaves in a liberal society, the bigger become the lies of Political Correctness in covering up for that group." (source)

From the NYT:
Justice Dept. Fights Bias in Lending
By CHARLIE SAVAGE

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department is beginning a major campaign against banks and mortgage brokers suspected of discriminating against minority applicants in lending, opening a new front in the Obama administration’s response to the foreclosure crisis.

Tom Perez, the assistant attorney general for the department’s Civil Rights Division, is expected to announce Thursday in New York that the administration is creating a new unit that will focus exclusively on unfair lending practices.

“We are looking at any and every practice in the industry,” Mr. Perez said in a recent interview.

As part of an expansion of the Civil Rights Division approved by Congress last year, the Justice Department is hiring at least four lawyers and an economist for the new unit, while about half a dozen current staff members will transfer into it.

Mr. Perez plans to formally announce the new unit at the “Wall Street Project” conference organized by the Rev. Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow/PUSH Coalition. He characterized the effort as a major turnaround, and criticized the previous administration as failing to scrutinize lending practices amid the subprime mortgage boom.

While past lending discrimination cases primarily focused on “redlining” — a bank’s refusal to lend to qualified borrowers in minority areas — the new push will instead center on a more recent phenomenon critics have called “reverse redlining.” [Highlights mine]

Hopefully, the Obama Administration will arrest for promotion of "reverse redlining" George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Henry Cisneros, Barney Frank, and Barack Obama.

In reverse redlining, a mortgage brokerage or bank systematically singles out minority neighborhoods for loans with inferior terms like high up-front fees, high interest rates and lax underwriting practices. Because the original lender would typically resell such a loan after collecting its fees, it did not care about the risk of foreclosure.

There's absolutely no question that lenders hired huge numbers of Hispanic and black boiler room workers. I thought the Justice Department was in favor of hiring Hispanics and blacks?

Maybe a better way for the government to prevent "reverse redlining" is stop making it punishable by discrimination lawsuits to mention the much higher risk of default among minorities?

It is a rarely used theory, and it carries political risks. Some critics have contended that government rules pushing banks to lend to minority and low-income borrowers contributed to the financial meltdown. The campaign could rekindle that debate.

Will the New York Times ever print the facts supporting that contention?

“They encourage lenders to make risky loans for reasons such as diversity, and then when lenders have a problem because they made too many risky loans, they condemn them for that,” said Ernest Istook, a fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation and a former Republican congressman from Oklahoma.

Still, Mr. Istook emphasized that he was “not defending anybody who engages in wrongful redlining practices.”

A representative of the Mortgage Bankers Association, the lobbying arm of the real estate finance industry, did not respond to a request for comment.

Under federal civil rights laws, a lending practice is illegal if it has a disparate impact on minority borrowers, and the Obama administration is signaling that it intends to make the enforcing of fair lending laws a signature policy push in 2010.

Subprime lending was relentlessly marketed and endorsed as lessening the disparate impact of traditional credit standards.

My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer

63 comments:

h said...

I am positive that these people making the decisions and enforcing these policies are doing so to destroy the US.

Seriously, you would think that they are all retarded for doing the same thing over and over, unless they have an end goal / agenda.

This is not funny any longer. They all need to go to jail, pronto.

I really hope that the citizens of the US grow a pair soon and take back their country and incarcerate all these traitors and thieves.

In their world, logic and lessons from history play no part. It's all about feelings. I want to puke the more articles i read about their stupidity and gross hatred for the US.

eh said...

A story from the BBC:

Ethnic minorities 'no longer always disadvantaged'

Being black or Asian in the UK no longer means you will be automatically disadvantaged, Communities Secretary John Denham will say in a speech later...

Disadvantaged how and/or by whom? Or need you ask?

Lord Ouseley, former chairman of the Racial Equality Commission and chairman of a campaign to end racism in football Kick It Out, said the government deserved praise for its actions over the past 12 years but added: "Clearly there are still huge racial disadvantages in our society."

Freudian slip there, perhaps. Anyway, I think he means discrepancies, rather than disadvantages, but you get the idea.

"There is quite a considerable amount of hidden discrimination that still takes place in our society," he told Today, citing disparities in mental health provision and the prison population.

I guess it's about what you'd expect.

Here is a foto of Lord Ouseley.

Anonymous said...

"a lending practice is illegal if it has a disparate impact on minority borrowers"


ah, catch 22


it is the minority borrower that causes the disparity and the lender is blamed

Le Mur said...

“redlining” = bad.
“reverse redlining” = bad.

It's damned if you do and damned if you don't in the Land O' Doubleplus Good Fantasies.

David said...

Egalitarianism gone mad.

It's as if there were no alternative to go into the space in their heads where egalitarianism is. (Any alternative would be "racism," evil, heresy.) Therefore, they are committed to egalitarianism's logic - of destruction.

Robots with an insane self-destruct program.

Remember Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics:

1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

2. A robot must obey any orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

- from the 1942 short story "Runaround"

rightsaidfred said...

a major campaign against banks and mortgage brokers suspected of discriminating

I call this "ghost dancing".
When the plains (feather) Indians saw their way of life slipping away in the late 1800s, they ventured into even more extreme religious celebrations. Now our political leaders are speeding up the music and spending even more money on elaborate costumes.

Luke Lea said...

What about cases in which minority loans had more onerous terms than loans to others with similar credit scores? In some cases I have read about these not-subprime rate loans were actually available (sometimes from the same institution) but the borrowers were not informed. In other words, the lenders were ripping off the poorly informed.

Anonymous said...

I'm wondering, when does this period of the multi-cult religion end? It's just a phase, right? Or will these initiatives become an entrenched part of our society, to be expanded later when they don't produce the desired results? Talk about not learning from experience, the whites will fork over more and more money for less and less results. Keep working folks, the many millions out there need your money.

liberalbiorealism said...

Yes, Jesse Jackson is a laughable hypocrite. He affects outrage that minorities have been victimized by subprime lending when he had been before the crisis among those pushing hard for relaxing standards on loans to minorities. But why don't we notice that most on the right are laughable hypocrites too? They affect outrage that subprime lending should have been so prevalent when it was the deregulation for which they pushed so hard that made such lending profitable for the banks to begin with.

Truly, it is quite a deceit to pretend that banks were somehow, at the point of the governmental gun, being forced into extending these loans to minorities, when, in fact, the banks could not have been more eager to grant such loans. And why were they so enthusiastic? Because those loans could be aggregated and sliced and diced into an immensely profitable portfolio deregulation enabled.

I wonder if an honest account of the economic crisis of 2008 will ever be related. The left can't own up to its deplorable role in it; the right is not a whit better.

And I'm not seeing a lot of honesty on the point from you, Steve.

liberalbiorealism said...

Just to follow up on my post.

The so-called left indulges a mystic belief in equality in all important measures across all groups. The right indulges a mystic belief in the faultlessness of unfettered market forces as a mechanism to bring about an ideal society.

These two delusions created a perfect storm in the economic crisis of 2008.

And it will therefore be quite a long eternity before we get an honest reckoning of it.

Anonymous said...

I worked in a government welfare office a good many years. Face it, most of these programs, from the 60's onward, are really just "fire insurance". Keep sending money, or else bad things might happen. Most major cities have had parts of them burned down by blacks at one point or another, so the message has been sent. How much will it cost to keep the peace? It's only a matter of negotiating the price.

Anonymous said...

Reply to eh;

Your post was interesting. That photo sure doesn't look like any 'lord' in Britain I remember. As for the "disparity" in the prison population, could that be due to blacks commiting more crime? Should innocent Whites be imprisoned just to balance things out?

Anonymous said...

This "lending discrimination" thing doesn't make any sense! That's WHAT banks do. They LEND people money! Then they charge INTEREST on the loan! That HOW banks make money! Why would banks just decide to not lend money to blacks? That hurts their bottom line. That is cutting off your nose to spite your face. If banks don't want to lend someone money they have a good reason for it.

none of the above said...

The stupid, it burns.

Anonymous said...

I have it! No more loans for NAMs, only grants!

As anyone can see, there is no problem when a bank gives some money to a NAM. Problems only arise when the NAM has to pay the money back. If the bank did not ask for repayment, there would never be any problem.

So we can solve the forward- and reverse- and sideways- redlining issues permanently just by not asking NAMs to pay back the money banks give them!

Svigor said...

Under federal civil rights laws, a lending practice is illegal if it has a disparate impact on minority borrowers

This is interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't this basically a bill of attainder? A good lawyer could show that some form of "disparate impact" arises under any practicable lending policy.

Anonymous said...

Since so many lending institutions are controlled by Jews, can we at least say Jews are discriminating against noble and helpless blacks and Hispanics(and 'white trash')?

Anonymous said...

White conservative disadvantage is conservatives are foot-shy and suit-shy. We need to march more and sue more.

Anonymous said...

Why need to get rid of the majority mindset and develop a minority mindset. In terms of power, Jews are the defacto majority since they control many of the most powerful and influential institutions--Wall Street, Hollywood, Ivy League, High Tech, media, etc.
In terms of numbers, blacks and Hispanics are rising fast, and it won't be long before whites are eclipsed. We have a black president who's filled up government with his tribal brothers, radical Jews, and Wall Street goons(who provide the dough).
This nation is controlled by the Jewish/Black Axis which seeks to bring in Hispanics into the fold.

There are many rich white gentiles but they are either too chicken or have been indoctrinated in schools of higher learning(and through PBS and NPR) that they should never ever think of white identity, white power, or white interests. Jews care about other Jews, rich blacks care about poor blacks, Mexicans here care about Mexicans in Mexico. But, whites--soon to become a minority--cannot think about other whites. Rich whites have abandoned us.

So, we white folks must develop a minority mentality and fight tooth and nail and use the same tactics as used by Jews and blacks(and Hispanics).

We are no longer the all-powerful and rich white gentiles in the position to be generous and nice to other people. In 1948, Jews had to plead with us to support the creation of Israel. Now, Jews command what our foreign policy should be, what our values should be, what our agenda should be. In the 50s, blacks had to plead for civil rights. Now, they scream abuse at us, beat us up, and celebrate in song, dance, and sports that they are tougher and badder than lame honkey. Hispanics are beginning to smell the blood of dead yankee cowboy and marching in the streets demanding ILLEGAL ALIEN rights. And, our jobs have gone overseas, and middle white America is becoming dependent on welfare and walmart.

Wake up America!!!!

Anonymous said...

OT but of great interest to the steveospehere:

srael has asked an Indian geneticist to study the link between the Indian Pathans tribe and certain tribes of Israel, the Times of India reported this week.

Geneticist Shahnaz Ali has been asked to study the link between the Afridi Pathans, based in the Lucknow region of India, and certain tribes of Israel who migrated across Asia thousands of years ago.
...
Some experts attribute Israel's decision to fund the research to a theory supported by many that Afghanistan's Pashtun fighters, the community from which the Taliban draw their strength, are descendants of Afridi Pathans.

This is not the first time speculations of a deep rooted connection between the two seemingly unrelated people have been raised, yet this is the first time Israel's Foreign Ministry has offered to fund the research.

Ali has been genetically analyzing blood samples of the Afridi Pathans of Malihabad which she collected earlier to confirm their Jewish origin.
...
According to Aafreedi, the Afridi Pathans in India, even though they claim Israeli origin, are just as hostile and antagonistic towards Israel as Muslims anywhere else in the world.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1142690.html

Something about this doesn't seem right.

Whiskey said...

Auster is quite correct on that.

Anonymous said...

Let’s repeat this report from NPR: Half of the mortgages in default in America are on home loans taken out by Blacks.

This is the first diversity depression.



Juan Williams and Deborah Amos

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122516602


DEBORAH AMOS, host:
The unemployment rate for African-Americans is 16 percent, far exceeding the nation's overall rate.

Half of the country's mortgages in default are held by blacks.

Still, African-Americans are feeling a lot better about their prospects. That's the finding of a new poll by the Pew Research Center.

NPR News analyst Juan Williams advised the researchers in developing and interpreting the poll, and he joins me now. Good morning.

Steve Sailer said...

"Half of the mortgages in default in America are on home loans taken out by Blacks."

Can you find for me a study behind that?

I suspect the dollar impact isn't as great because a lot of these black defaults were in Greater Detroit on five digits houses. In contrast, Hispanics tend to be concentrated in more expensive Sand States, especially California.

Ben Franklin said...

No Steve, I just heard the report on NPR and found the transcript. I really don’t doubt it is accurate. I agree, Detroit/Michigan is a major driver, but don’t count out Cook County, Illinois either (which has the largest county population of blacks in the USA), as well as poor suburbs around Cook County as well.

I’m sure you are correct about the aggregate dollar affect of sand states versus Detroit/Chicago/black defaults. Note also the NPR report refers to “defaults” rather than foreclosures. This should mean that blacks are behind on payments but not all of those are in foreclosure yet.

Anonymous said...

Anon said:
... rich blacks care about poor blacks...

I have empathy for his position, but I believe that the evidence is that rich blacks don't take action to help poor blacks... The charitable contributions made by rich blacks to help poor blacks are pretty small.

The fact that no one really disputes is that the young rich white people enjoy the company of other young rich people of other races. They feel more connected to young rich people of other races than they do to poor or uneducated or low IQ members of their own white race. Go to Menlo Park or Seattle or San Francisco or other places where young white people have a chance to get seriously rich at a young age, and you will see them overwhelmingly spending time with high IQ east Asians, Indians, and others.

I can understand why the low IQ whites, or the poor whites would want symapthy and care from the wealthy whites, but I just don't think it is forthcoming. And I don't think they should say that rich blacks take care of poor blacks or that rich mexicans take care of poor mexicans. I just don't think the reality of the world is that most "races" take care of their own. Some especially small and tight knit groups do, but races do not.

I am not a Mormon but my understanding is that the Mormon Church takes 10% of the income of every mormon and distributes part of that money to poor mormons. So for the poor or low IQ whites that want help from wealthy whites, perhaps the answer is to join the mormon church?

Anyway, the more time you spend in Northern California, the more you will see that the people hang around with others who are like them in terms of IQ, education, income, and tastes. There is just no racial break down. Low IQ whites tend to spend their time with low IQ latinos and Southeast Asians. The groups are intermarrying to such a degree that they probably won't be identifiably distinct in 100 years. High IQ whites tend to spend their time with and intermarry with other high IQ groups. In 100 years the Brahmins of India, and the Northeast Asians and the whites of Northern California will be so intermixed that it might be hard to find people that are entirely of one group or the other.

Let me be clear, there will be one big high IQ race that mixes Brahmins, East Asians, and some other whites

There will be another big lower IQ race that mixes Latins, Southest Asians, and some other whites.

I don't think in this world high IQ whites will feel any connection whatsoever to their low IQ counterparts.

Anonymous said...

.. Just to expand on the thoughts in my last post

I get the sense that most of the people who post here at isteve calling for racial solidarity live in parts of America where the races don't intermarry as much as they do in Northern California. Their reality is different than mine.

However, in defense of the places in America where all high IQ people intermarry, from where I sit these places seem to be the ones that can produce technology products that compete and win on the world economic stage.

I may be speculating here, but in places where whites are expected to marry whites, perhaps those whites with 150 IQ can't find mates with the same IQ and marry lower IQ whites, in other words perhaps reversion to the mean happens much more quickly and as a result there are few super high IQ people around.

On the other hand, in places like Silicon Valley where 150 IQ people can choose to marry 150 IQ people from other races, perhaps many more high IQ kids are produced.

Again, My point is that high IQ rich whites in the most innovative and successful parts of America are marying other races at an accelerating rate. More and more high IQ families are racially mixed. Therefore it seems to me that race conciousness is more and more doomed in the most successful places in America, in the places where the rich live and generate their wealth.

So in a long winded way, I would say that white people hoping for a revival of racial conciousness should stop expecting any rich whites to step forward and help in any way. A movement for white racial solidarity will have to, in my humble opinion, be almost entirely driven by whites who are not rich, living in parts of America where they can enforce racial separation.

Racial separatists deserve the right to live the life they want to live. every group is entitled to a homeland that is racially pure, if that group wants such a homeland.

It seems to me that we could designate a state that is already almost 100% white as a homeland for the racial separatists. Perhaps Idaho is the right place for a homeland for the white separatists.

Again, my message to the white separatists on this blog is that you might be surprised how many people there are like me that think you deserve a homeland. However, do not be surprised and offended if once you establish your home land very few rich whites want to live there since as I said, people who are rich seem to want to live in places with rich innovative high IQ people.

David said...

>do not be surprised and offended if once you establish your home land very few rich whites want to live there<

Fine by me. That's why I'm located where I am now. Btw, got stats on how many 150 IQ NAMs are on the marriage market, or how many innovative Asians?

SGOTI said...

"Again, my message to the white separatists on this blog is that you might be surprised how many people there are like me that think you deserve a homeland."

Awww, gee, thanks Anon. That's so gracious to grant that to those very people who founded the ENTIRE country as their "homeland".

Anonymous said...

David, you deserve a homeland that is for whites only. I already said that.

I think the evidence from Northern California is that high IQ whites marry high IQ asians.

High IQ whites generally do not marry NAMs


Actually, the pattern where I live is that the low IQ white parents see their children marry NAMs. It is very logical for the low IQ white parents to move to an all white homeland. If they don't move to an all white homeland, their grandchildren will be different from them.

I respect very much your right to live in a place where your children and grandchildren get to marry within the white race. I also support your right to control the media in this white home land so that you can enforce the values you want to enforce.

White separatists deserve a homeland. And such a home land really doesn't need the high IQ wealthy whites anyway. It will do just fine.

Svigor said...

I have it! No more loans for NAMs, only grants!

Yes, this is the only way to satisfy the "disparate impact" rule. Of course, that's racist, but then so is "disparate impact" since it only works one way. But it's okay racism. Lots of that in radical racial leftism (i.e., the position of all "respectable" Americans), in fact the whole thing is racist right to the core.

Svigor said...

And such a home land really doesn't need the high IQ wealthy whites anyway. It will do just fine.

Given viability (e.g., Oregon, not Idaho), the high IQ whites will show up. Ceteris paribus, whites would show up in droves. Obviously ceteris paribus is a bit much to hope for, but we should expect a bit better than Idaho.

Anonymous said...

Silicon valley, at least the ideas behind it, was created by whites from all white flyover country. See Tom Wolf’s book Hooking Up for the factual background information.

Anonymous said...

From my observations, it seems that the young whites that are creating substantial wealth are doing it through intellectually and creatively demanding professions. I mean, there are a huge number of MP3 players out there but IPOD captures all the profits. Why is this? It has nothing to do with the manufacturing and everything to do with the intellectual and creative capital that went in to it. The industrial designers created the value. From what I see industrial designers want to work with high IQ creative people of other races. Let me be clear, whites are the most creative race, but somehow the types of whites that are smartest and most creative want to work with a diverse group of high IQ creative people

I have spent some time in Simi Valley. Simi Valley is just about as close as you can get to a white middle class community in the LA metroplex. You can buy a quite adequate family home there today at a reasonable multiple of the average white man's income.

Volkswagen of America had its design center in Simi Valley for many years, but they just couldn't attract the best industrial designers to live in Simi Valley and ultimately they were forced to move to Santa Monica. I don't know how well you know Santa Monica, but in Santa Monica the average 1800 square foot single family house on a quarter acre lot costs 1.2 million dollars. That is today, post crash in prices.

VW found that asians did not feel comfortable in simi valley and most high IQ heterosexal white designer types did not like it either
- some how the lack of high IQ minorities made Simi Valley unattractive to many high IQ whites. Bottom line, VW was forced to move to a very high priced location (Santa Monica) from a moderately priced one in order to attract the work force it wanted.

Again, all the evidence I see is that outside the HBD community the young high IQ whites that are really inventing and creating new things and innovating are doing it in workplaces side by side with high IQ asians.

Rich high IQ white people don't feel a kinship with the white separatists, they just have no group identification with them. I don't know of any rich white people what want to work in a workplace that forbids asians, and if a workplace was located in the white homeland it would obviously not include asians

Anyway, you can read about the VW example. I would welcome some counter exampls if others here have them. Like a world class company that moved from a high IQ diverse mecca to an all white part of the US and stayed successful. I will freely admit if I am proven wrong, and if world class companies can stay on top even if they are located in an all white area.

But my hypothesis right now is that white separatists deserve a home land and should get that home land. I would be interested in whether there have been any opinion polls taken - in other words if the US has more than 150 million white people right now, how many of them might move to a white homeland?

The white separatists will quite correctly say that if the US collapses in to riots and strife, many more whites will want to join them in the white home land. But what if the US stays exactly the way it is today - how many whites wil want to live in such a homeland?
If enough whites want to move to this homeland it should be really big - like perhaps the entire great plains area could be given over to the white homeland? The North American land mass has plenty of space, I think all of us should be able to find a location that suits us exactly, including the whites that want to live separate from all other races.

Svigor said...

Anonymous cognitive elitist, how can you call it an experiment when there's no control group?

And how did we get along before "diversity"?

Sure, force "diversity" on everyone in the developed world, and it's easy to conflate the two, but isn't that kinda dumb?

Svigor said...

Why aren't the Japanese fleeing Japan for lack of "diversity"? Taiwan? Korea?

Svigor said...

And isn't your assertion of rich/high-IQ white attitudes a bunch of hot air? Sorta like saying polls show that the people loved Communism in the U.S.S.R. 'cause the polls said so? Punish people to get less of a behavior, and all that?

OhioStater said...

The Christian Science Monitor says Yele Haiti and Wyclef Jean are nice people, but this is a serious matter and donations should go to more established mainstream (white) organizations. I guess affirmative action has its limits.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2010/0114/Wyclef-Jean-Yele-relief-Is-this-best-way-to-help-Haiti

Curvaceous Carbon-based Life Form said...

"White separatists deserve a homeland. And such a home land really doesn't need the high IQ wealthy whites anyway. It will do just fine."

Refreshing to hear someone who is willing to allow us to live and let live. Thank you!

Us White Separatists' biggest problem right now is all the do-gooder high-IQ Whites who DON'T feel as you do, but are actively engaged in flooding any and all mostly-White areas with non-Whites in order to *preempt* such uppity thinking.

But imagine for a moment if all us "dumb-bunny" Whites were ever to actually someday get a homeland. Things WOULD probably go okay -- for a while.

Then one day conflict would erupt, and the Silicon Valley high-IQ White babes-in-toyland would discover, to their great astonishment and misforturne, the vast reserves of ethnocentricity that had been lying dormant in the souls of their non-White high-IQ bestest-buddies-forever.

And which time, such high-IQ Whiteness, being associated as it is with do-goodering, (especially when it, coincidentally, of course, benefits themselves) those Silicon Valley babes-in-toyland will get themelves a revelation as to how us dumb-bunny Whites NEED them, and the roar of their clamoring to be let in will
be ear-splitting.

At which time the challenge for us White dim bulbs will be to innovate new forms of weaponry in order to keep them out -- laughing all the while.

Anonymous said...

Svigor, you make very good points. However, the country of Japan has opened its doors to Japanese Americans who want to move to their ancestral homeland. Very few Japanese Americans have moved back. I mean don't forget that relations between white Americans and Japanese Americans were so bad that the Japanese were interned during WW2. Yet Japanese who taste the lifestyle of high IQ America love it here enough to stay. I think, more than any other racial group, Japanese Americans demonstrate a love of diversity - they live in racially mixed neighborhoods and intermarry with whites to a high degree.

But the fact is that Japanese Americans always have the option of moving to Japan and spending time 100% with their own race. Same thing with Korean americans.

Svigor, I support your right to live in some part of America that is 100% white. Presumably you would have an educational system that celebrated whiteness and that motivated your children and grandchildren to stay within this homeland and marry other white people.

I mean, if I was living in a culture that I did not like, I would want to move to a culture that I did like. Think of it this way, every year there are some gay people that are born in towns that are anti gay. These gay kids are able to get up and move to the Castro and find a community of like minded individuals.

If every gay in America wants to move to some separate place, I am not going to prevent it. I see white separatists the same way. I respect very much the desire of white separatists to create a community that reflects their wants and desires.

I just am curious as to how many whites there are in the US that would move to such a community? Is it enough people to fill up a state? How about a few states?

Don't forget that in America today, much of the money spent by whites is spent to get away from dangerous NAMs. If you have a homeland you won't have to spend that money and can for that reason be happier with less money.

Second of all, the media in America is designed to instill a consumerist ethos. Everyone is encouraged to make money to buy products that are not really needed, products that don't really produce anything but an endless status competition. Svigor presumably in your white home land you can control the media to prevent consumption driven status competition. So right there, less money need be spent. So what if Microsoft or Google won't set up any really high paying jobs in the white home land - you can create a spiritually uplifting environment without super high paying jobs.

I find the whole subject of separationist communities to be very interesting - have you looked at Ave Maria, the community in Florida designed for Americans who wanted a very strict Catholic religious environment?

I would imagine that white separatists would essentially be coming together to do something very similar on a very large scale with a white homeland - setting up a set of values and mores that they wanted their children and great grandchildren to live by. The zeitgeist of this white homeland would probably be similar to that of a the original 13 colonies.

Again I say, Svigor you might be able to get your white home land without civil war and bloodshed. You might find you have more support for a home land than you realize, not just here in the HBD blog o sphere but among many others.

Anonymous said...

Svigor, I have spent a great deal of time on your web site, Majority Rights. Lots of interesting material there. I feel I better understand the white separatist view point after absorbing that site.

If I am reading the white separatist view point accurately, white separatists really want to avoid Miscegenation In my experience, high IQ whites see a certain percentage of their children marry high IQ asians and it doesn't really bother them. In other words, very few high IQ whites would be motivated to move to a white homeland since high IQ whites are not bothered by high IQ miscegenation.

Low IQ whites typically see their children, if they intermarry, marrying lower IQ minority groups (NAMS) I could understand if a very large percentage of low IQ whites were unhappy with this and wanted to move to a white home land.

Anyway, I see a number of examples in history of whites fighting heroically to avoid marrying in to another group, and I see other examples of white groups sort of capitulating to marrying in to another group.

During the time of the Ottoman occupation of the Balkans, the Ottomans offered enticements for all groups to intermrry with the Turkish occupiers. The Serbs heroially resisted and stayed racially pure, and the Albaians of course capitulated and intermarried and also became muslim.

so it is fair to say that there are two precedents that we can look to, both suggesting the opposite outcome.

It seems to me that you have to divide American whites in to ones that think their kids will intermarry with high IQ asians and are ok with that the lower IQ whites that think their kids will intermarry with NAMS. Let's assume that some of the low IQ whites have been brainwashed by the media in to being ok with their kids intermarrying with NAMS.

let's focus on the low IQ whites that know that their kids or grandkids will eventually intermarry with NAMs and who don't like this. How many of these are motivated to move to a white homeland?



I would put forth the theory that whites most subject to violence from NAMS would be the ones most likely to move to the white home land.

I keep returning to the idea that the poorer and lower IQ whites today bear the brunt of all the problems of diversity. poorer and lower IQ whites are likely to live right near NAMs, and poorer and lower IQ whites have to compete for jobs with the massive unskilled NAM immigration of the past few years. America has treated poor and low IQ whites badly and I can understand why they would leave America.

But respectfully, I just can't see many high IQ wealthy whites seeing a reason to move to the white homeland. I get the sense that there are some very high IQ, very high income successful whites that read ths blog, whites that live in successful places like Silicon Valley. Can any of them chime in? Assume tht every high IQ, wealthy high earning educated white took the time to carefully read the most well thought out manifesto for the white homeland. How many of the high IQ successful whites would actually make the move?

Anonymous said...

Its great to hear somone saying that whites have a right to a homeland.

The situation you describe high IQ whites and Asians together is not sustainable long term. Without a homeland the supply of high IQ whites will dry up. They will just be - in your example - a sort-of sub-Asian group. Meanwhile Asian countries will continue as Asian countries.

This is the paradox, its whites who have created the conditions that allow Asians to thrive in a white society. Thats not being reciprocated.

Anonymous said...

"How many of the high IQ successful whites would actually make the move?"

Most, if not all. Look at the neighborhoods they live in now. Not very diverse. Now diversity is awesome, but not for them. Liberal whites included.

OhioStater said...

From what I've seen, a black guy has an easier time dating a Republican white girl than Democrat white girl. The liberal white (presumably Sex and the City types) aren't into black guys, but country girls are a different story. This shouldn't surprise Sailer.

jody said...

hah. i think the first law of majority-minority relations is probably more like this:

"Don't report on violent criminals if they are not european men."

remember only a few days ago, in the thread "Which sex is more self-absorbed?", where i posted about the murder of paula sladewski on january 3 in miami? i said it was probable that her violent boyfriend, who had previously broken her nose, had in fact finally killed her.

except, only a day later, the police examined video evidence that suggests two african men followed sladewski as she was leaving the club, long after the boyfriend had been ejected by the bouncers and went back to his hotel.

now the police are looking for these suspects, and, of course, the story INSTANTLY disappeared from the national headlines. it was IMMEDIATELY whisked off the front page of cnn.com and foxnews.com

CNN seems to have lost total interest in the story. a search of their site reveals that they stopped updating the story on january 8, the day the video evidence was reported by miami police. foxnews has continued to cover it, but less closely, posting updates as recently as january 12.

jody said...

this single rule, "Do not report on violent criminals if they are not european men", has probably done more to improve race relations in the united states than perhaps any other initiative. while it is brainwashing and manipulation of the highest order, it certainly has had an effect.

it is the reason, for instance, that people are already forgetting about malik nadal hasan. he's alive and well, and recovering in a hospital at taxpayer expense. the media doesn't want to report on him though, because it will remind americans that they would like to receive weekly updates on whether hasan is healthy enough yet for a brief, 1 day military trial, a mere formality on his way to the firing squad. he's a traitor that needs to be executed in 2010, and plenty of americans would love to know when it happens. it could not be any clearer that this is not some guy who should still be alive all the way into 2019 or some other far away date, after years of trials and a lengthy death row stint with multiple appeals.

how hasan could not be executed in 2010, which he likely won't, and how this travesty could not be a reputation destroying embarrassment for "president" barack obama, is mind boggling stuff.

Thomas said...

Anonymous, you are probably right about high-IQ, high-wealth SWPL whites in general not identifying with other whites at the present time, though it would probably do to put some reading in on the overwhelming prevalence of intra-white class divides and the prejudices of that particular subset of whites you are talking about and consider the degree to which their inability to identify with other whites is cultural, rather than based on actual material interests.

Second, as someone who was born in Santa Monica, and currently lives in the Bay Area, you have to consider the actual makeup of those places. Santa Monica, your example of diversity, is about 70% Non-Hispanic White (whiter than the US in general) and 7% Asian. San Francisco is 45% NHW, but 30% Asian (basically trade 40% of the whites for Asians from Santa Monica and you get San Francisco). NAMs are found principally either within the public service sector, the underclass, or as occasional seasoning within the high-income "symbolic analyst" sectors that most upwardly mobile whites and Asians work within in those places, so what diversity exists within the broader metropolitan areas is not reflected within social (or sexual) mixing.

Also, keep in mind that high-IQ whites in general and in places like California in particular don't reproduce much at all. College-educated white women in the US have a lifetime total fertility rate on average of 1.6 births per woman, well below the replacement rate of 2.1 (irrespective of education, it's about 1.6 for white women in California irrespective of education). Who they are marrying and whether they would want to move to a white homeland or not, isn't really much at issue with birthrates like that. A closer model, I think, to what happens is that highly-educated and coastal liberal elites tend to serve as sort of ongoing social exclaves that recruit from the broader populations in order to keep up their numbers. Endogamy within that group is not really a prevalent demographic factor. Some fraction of those elites ("talented-tenth" blacks like Obama, very whitish "Hispanics" who can go from "Alex" to "Alejandro", allophile white "allies", etc.) get to use the racial fractions outside their own "post-racial" circle in their "revolution from above" plays (like Obama getting elected), but I think that it is correct that few of any in this circle have any deep attachments to their racial kin outside of it.

Finally, I'm not sure who, aside from you, is talking about moving to any sort white separatist enclave, or to whom that might appeal. It just sort of seemed to drop in there in what you wrote. I think the general tone of this blog has more to do with observing realistically the racial dynamics of the US in contrast to the fuzzy-headed, politically-correct passion plays we're spoon-fed. No one said though that there is any "solution". If anyone wants to start buying up land in Idaho and selling homesteads, just be sure to let us down in California know please.

jody said...

"Again, all the evidence I see is that outside the HBD community the young high IQ whites that are really inventing and creating new things and innovating are doing it in workplaces side by side with high IQ asians."

kind of a skewed perspective, though, right? that's in california. i've been to many places in the US with concentrations of high IQ whites where few asians live. these places are called...states not named california. massive amounts of engineering and medicine come from these places. i'm not trying to disagree totally, i know europeans will work with east asians too, but i've been to places where they don't.

"I don't know of any rich white people what want to work in a workplace that forbids asians"

i do. i think i posted before about coaching elite high school athletes with high motivation and great grades in the classroom, who turned down admissions to MIT, stanford, harvard, and princeton in favor of the state school, so they could do engineering in their home state for a cheap tuition and still play DI sports. lots of these kids told me one of their reasons was that there were "too many asians" at the famous schools when they went to tour it.

i found it hard to believe, but i saw it for several years in a row, so, what i can i say. that's my anecdotal observation from states in midwest america.

"Rich high IQ white people don't feel a kinship with the white separatists"

maybe not a personal kinship, but they tend to behave similarly to the white nationalists in their private lives, as do most white liberals.

"Like a world class company that moved from a high IQ diverse mecca to an all white part of the US and stayed successful."

nissan moved their american headquarters from california to tennessee because california sucked THAT MUCH.

what about world class companies that operate in very white parts of the US? they exist in numbers. do they even get to count?

isn't cargill, in minnesota, about the number 10 biggest company in the world? what about koch, in kansas, one of the biggest chemical operations in existence.

Captain Jack Aubrey said...

Your post was interesting. That photo sure doesn't look like any 'lord' in Britain I remember.

Oh, you are sorely mistaken. Since the advent of Blairstrip One they've been minting multicultural Lords and Knights and Barons and Baronesses by the score.

Captain Jack Aubrey said...

I don't know of any rich white people what want to work in a workplace that forbids asians, and if a workplace was located in the white homeland it would obviously not include asians

Nor do I know of any white nationalists who want to exclude Asians from their workplace. Don't go lighting any matches, because your room full of straw men would quickly go up in flames.

And I don;t really knwo of too many people who want to build a white homeland - they just want less immigration in general, and the immigrants they want fewer of are not Asians, but Hispanics.

And even with your supposed high interracial marriage rates I'd still wager that most whites in Silicon Valley are still marrying other whites. Sure, lots of Asian women may be marrying white men, but numerically that leaves plenty of high IQ white men left over to marry whites.

And...those rich, high IQ interracial couples aren't having tons of kids. Few of the Asian women I know have more than two. Almost none, in fact. For some reason Asian women seem disproportionately to prefer small families.

gorn said so said...

"And I don't think they should say that rich blacks take care of poor blacks or that rich mexicans take care of poor mexicans."

I didn't say rich white should TAKE CARE of poor whites. I'm opposed to welfare. But, rich and influential whites can certainly use their political, cultural, and legal influence and muscle for the interest of their own people. Lots of poor whites are losing jobs to illegal aliens. Lots of law-abiding poor whites can't own guns in many cities teeming with criminals. Lot of working class whites are victims of illegal alien crime in the SW areas. Rich whites should NOT TAKE CARE of poor, working class, or middle class whites, but rich whites should NOT make life difficult for them either. Rich whites should not support affirmative action that hurts average whites.
At the very least, rich whites should make it possible for average whites to take care of themselves. But, that is becoming more difficult as rich whites support illegal immigration and affirmative action that favors affluent blacks over working class whites who outperform blacks on tests.

Also, I didn't say rich blacks or rich Hispanics TAKE CARE of their own kind. Rich blacks are egotistical and selfish. Rich Hispanics are mostly vain. Even so, there is a racial or ethnic solidarity expresed throughout the black and Hispanic communities. Rich blacks do speak of black power, black rights, black interets. Rich Hispanics do the same. Obama, Wright, and the Jacksons may be rich corrupt selfish blacks when it comes to their own money BUT they do speak for black power and black unity. They do use politics and other means to take from non-blacks to give to blacks. And, rich Hispanics also have a sense of Hispanic unity, pride, and etc.

So, is it too much to ask rich whites NOT to work against their own people's interests? Okay, rich whites should not do any special favors for average whites, but rich whites certainly should not make life harder for average whites. Rich whites are sacrificing the rights and well-being of average whites to earn moral credentials and more power/wealth for themselves. They are rotten. The Kennedies, the Bushies, and the rest of them. May they burn in hell.

Curvaceous Carbon-based Life Form said...

"The situation you describe high IQ whites and Asians together is not sustainable long term."

Right. Amongst the reasons, not least of which, is the staggeringly high rates of autism in the offspring of the 150-iq couples.

"what about world class companies that operate in very white parts of the US?"
Word. Good ole Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway, where "A" stock is $99,000 / share, is located in the insurance capital of the world -- Omaha, Neb.

Oh, and to substantiate my point about any-and-all mostly-White areas being flooded with NAMS, here's this from Wikipedia regarding Omaha:
quote:
"A growing number of African immigrants have made their homes in Omaha in the last twenty years. There are approximately 8,500 Sudanese living in Omaha, comprising the largest population of Sudanese refugees in the United States"

Otis the Sweaty said...

I am not a white nationalist, far from it, but "Anonymous Cognitive Elitist" is the single most obnoxious commentor I have ever had the misfortune of reading.

I have never before seen such a perfect storm of long windedness, nasueating asiophilic obsession and delusional leftist interpretations of demographic trends.

David said...

Not only do Whites want to be where other Whites are, so does everyone else. Not only NAMs - but also AMs (as our anonymous friend makes risibly clear). They came to us, we find a certain fraction acceptable, and that means every White has "yellow fever"? It is to laugh!

idealart said...

Every culture must have a founding myth to unify itself. This must be tied to the sacred, something the people are willing to fight for. This "original event" must be ritualized through repetition and the stage of adolescent rebellion must be overcome.

We in the West have lost our founding myth, Judeo-Christianity, and its relation to ourselves. Until we find it again, there will be no identification by the elites with the people. They will continue to "celebrate" their alienation with the "anti-culture" of nihilism and despair.

David said...

>We in the West have lost our founding myth, Judeo-Christianity<

No, it lived out its natural life: born in a passion, consolidated into a tradition, grown old in rank decreptitude, and ending in class-A farce. Egalitarianism is the senility of "Judeo-Christianity." Not to mention "Judeo-Christianity" is a late corruption of both Judaism and Christianity.

We're still here, the skies haven't fallen. Let's be sensible and start a new young faith. Nothing whatsoever stops us, any more than anything stopped our ancestors. (And no reason we can't maintain a respect toward much old Euro art and some philosophy.)

idealart said...

David, what does egalitarianism have to do with European religious tradition? Have you heard of heaven, hell, purgatory? The Divine Comedy? Dante? Uh, wait, Al Pacino in that really creepy, like, devil film?

idealart said...

Could you elaborate on what literature or works of art your new religion has inspired?

Anonymous said...

Don't these people realise that a double negative ie 'reverse redlining' merely negates itself and returns one to the previous staus quo (ie no redlining), which supposedly is the utopian state?

Anonymous said...

One anonymous here claims that is normal for the rich and poor within a race not to give a damn about one another and that rich elites intermarry between races.
A study of history debunks this.For example most of the nations of Europe have been in bitter conflict with each other for centuries, during these interminable conflicts (ie Ireland, the Balkans)self-idenified ethnicities fought to the death always on the basis of shared nationality, blood and language and never on the basis of social class.
For example the leaders of Irish Republicanism were ofetn the intellectual and social elite.In the war of 1921 they died alongside their foot-soldiers the Irish peasantry.

Anonymous said...

I would advise the 'anonymous' here who keeps posting long-winded posts crowing about (his) perception that 'High IQ' whites don't give a damn about 'Low IQ' whites to actually study (if he is capable of understanding it) the cogent and powerful 'Ethnic Genetic Interest' theory of Frank Salter (google it!), which demonstrates that the bhavior that the poster (whom I guess to be east Indian) crows so much about is actually dysgenic (in the truest sense of the word) and destructive to the supposedly 'high IQ' whites, who therefore can't be very 'high IQ' if they are silly enough to practice it.

Svigor said...

Part 1:

The white separatists will quite correctly say that if the US collapses in to riots and strife, many more whites will want to join them in the white home land. But what if the US stays exactly the way it is today - how many whites wil want to live in such a homeland?

Curvaceous makes a good point. I agree that, given a viable ethnostate, the problem would be how to keep a certain type of white out, not the lack of them.

Svigor, you make very good points. However, the country of Japan has opened its doors to Japanese Americans who want to move to their ancestral homeland. Very few Japanese Americans have moved back.

Few seem to leave in the first place.

Svigor, I support your right to live in some part of America that is 100% white. Presumably you would have an educational system that celebrated whiteness and that motivated your children and grandchildren to stay within this homeland and marry other white people.

Thank you (though I suspect you're intelligent enough to know that acknowledging your fellow man's right to self-determination and freedom of association is only an act deserving thanks in a world gone rather mad).

The rub with ethnocentrism in an homogeneous ethnostate is its most compelling motives are removed. I suppose that's a bridge to be crossed later.

I just am curious as to how many whites there are in the US that would move to such a community? Is it enough people to fill up a state? How about a few states?

This is a valid question. Again, I have to return to the U.S.S.R. If you had polled Soviets, you'd have found find very little support for ending all the things about the U.S.S.R. that we'd all agree we'd rather live without, since support could get a citizen punished (and eventually people internalize these things as a survival mechanism). But if the U.S.S.R. had made real intellectual room for the argument, and given people time to think things through sans external carrots and sticks, the vast majority would probably have started sounding a lot more like Americans.

I don't mean to imply a strong relationship between the particulars here (appeal of freedom vs. appeal of ethnocentrism), I'm just illustrating the carrots and sticks; my point is we just don't know where this horse would go without the rider's carrots and sticks.

Svigor presumably in your white home land you can control the media to prevent consumption driven status competition.

Agnostic.

I find the whole subject of separationist communities to be very interesting - have you looked at Ave Maria, the community in Florida designed for Americans who wanted a very strict Catholic religious environment?

No.

I would imagine that white separatists would essentially be coming together to do something very similar on a very large scale with a white homeland - setting up a set of values and mores that they wanted their children and great grandchildren to live by. The zeitgeist of this white homeland would probably be similar to that of a the original 13 colonies.

Agnostic.

Svigor said...

Part 2:

Again I say, Svigor you might be able to get your white home land without civil war and bloodshed. You might find you have more support for a home land than you realize, not just here in the HBD blog o sphere but among many others.

I have no doubt that, given the "room" I referred to above, the great majority of whites would support the ideas of ethnopatriotism, at least in theory. Remove the carrots and sticks and the question becomes a referendum on human decency.

But I just don't see how we can pass judgement on the "experiment" of diversity without a control group. Whites don't have a choice, so what's the point of polling their attitudes when it amounts to waving carrots and sticks in front of them?

Not to bang on the same drum, but I'd rather reply to you than not, and you're banging the same drum too so...

Ceteris paribus. If you want to test the theoretical viability of ethnopatriotism and racial separatism, just use the ceteris paribus test. Imagine two Americas, identical but for "diversity" and its consequences. Where would the average (non-"diverse") white go? I think the vast majority would wind up in "diversity"-free America. I think Putnam would agree, and he's just one name of scores I could throw into the ring.

Now obviously, part of your argument, at the least, is entwined with the idea that there can be no such "pure" ceteris paribus comparison, that "diversity" of the Cognitive Elitist flavor carries economic and perhaps cultural benefits. My reply would be to again point to the lack of a control group, to say nothing of countervailing benefits across the border.

****

Jody on the Sladewski murder: well, well, well, isn't that interesting? Amazing what is and is not news, innit? Seems like what is news, can become not-news, too!

David said...

>what does egalitarianism have to do with European religious tradition?<

Ask any antiracist or any minister. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

The first shall be last and the last first. Therefore love your enemies, turn the other cheek, and resist not evil. Did you never go to Sunday school?

>Could you elaborate on what literature or works of art your new religion has inspired?<

You have a bit of a head start.

But seriously, which masterpieces has your religion inspired in non-Europeans?