August 1, 2011

Do Hispanic leaders have followers?

We constantly read articles in which Hispanic leaders, such as the head of the National Council of La Raza, threaten that any politician who takes a stand against illegal immigration will be buried at the polls. But do these media-acclaimed Hispanic prophets have all that many disciples?

From my new VDARE column:
In a Pew Hispanic Center survey in late summer 2010, 1,375 Hispanics were asked an unprompted question: “In your opinion, who is the most important Hispanic / Latino leader in the country today?” 
The landslide winner: “Don’t know,” with 64 percent. 
The runner-up: “No one,” with ten percent 
In third place: recently-appointed Supreme Court justice Sonia Sotomayor, with seven percent. Then came the Congressional spokesman for amnesty, Luis Gutierrez, down at five percent; Los Angeles mayor Antonio Villaraigosa at three percent; and Univision news anchorman Jorge Ramos at two.

Read the whole thing there.

54 comments:

Anonymous said...

In third place: recently-appointed Supreme Court justice Sonia Sotomayor, with seven percent. Then came the Congressional spokesman for amnesty, Luis Gutierrez, down at five percent; Los Angeles mayor Antonio Villaraigosa at three percent; and Univision news anchorman Jorge Ramos at two.




Sotomayor and Guiterez, the leading Hispanic leaders, are both Puerto Ricans. That's sort of strange, when you consider that PRs are only 9 percent of the Hispanic-American population. Mexican-Americans are about 65 percent.

A lot of Hispanic music artists (Jennifer Lopez, Marc Anthony, Colby O'Donis, Ricky Martin) are PR too.

What is it about Puerto Ricans? Does having black ancestry make them more charismatic and verbal?

Thomas said...

Based on my unscientific observations from living most of my life in Northern and Southern California, my votes for top Hispanic leaders would be morning radio personalities Piolín and El Cucuy.

Daybreaker said...

Which one of these Hispanic leaders is responsible for getting justice for Rick Sanchez?

Anonymous said...

"What is it about Puerto Ricans? Does having black ancestry make them more charismatic and verbal?"

And in the case of J-Lo, makes her butt enormous.
Gilbert P.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

What is it about Puerto Ricans? Does having black ancestry make them more charismatic and verbal?

Puerto Ricans and blacks also get along far better than Mexicans do. You find a lot of intermixing in the outer NY neighborhoods.

PRs also seem to have 'N-word privileges' among blacks.

NOTA said...

I suspect that ethnic politics in the US gets skewed by two weird special cases (blacks and Jews) that don't work very well as models for other cases (like Hispanics or Asians or, for that matter, women or gays). Unlike blacks, Hispanics are from a whole bunch of different countries, and first generation immigrants still think of themselves as Mexican or Salvadoran or Peruvian or whatever. And their kids mostly assimilate into American norms, speak English, and intermarry with American blacks and whites.

Judging from the totally unscientific sample of Hispanics I know personally, that's the pattern. They often despair of getting their kids to learn Spanish, and their kids typically look like random Americans, just a little shorter and darker. That puts the Guitierrezes in a hard position. The first generation might feel some vague membership in the broad movement of hispanics, but really, they're still Mexicans or Cubans or whatever. The second and later generations may feel some vague membership in the broad membership of Hispanics, but their actual situation has little to do with the concerns of the politicians trying to represent that group. (If your parents came over from Mexico, you married a white girl and have a family and work at a plastic factory and speak perfect English and also speak Spanish, your actual day to day political concerns probably look more like random Americans' concerns--you'd like safe streets and good schools and to keep your job.

Anonymous said...

Methinks Mr. Sailer is in 'hispanic denial'.
Steve's way of coping with the impending hispanic takeover is to pretend that it's not happening and it doesn't matter.
Well Steve it's 50 million now and growing at a clip of 4% per annum.
You can't argue with that.

G Joubert said...

I teach at a college where 30% of the students have Spanish surnames. The types of classes I teach (Ethics, Sociology, Political Science, Professional Development) allows me to go directly into this subject, which I do. I throw it open for discussion, let the students express themselves, and I try to guide it with questions. I've been doing this for several years and anecdotally I have a couple of observations.

First, overwhelmingly these people do not self-identify as "hispanic." The term "hispanic" was a construct of the Nixon Administration for the 1970 Census. These people differentiate between those of Mexican, Puerto Rican, and Cuban hertitages. They do not lump them together, nor do they relate to the other groups as bretheran or whatever.

Second, there is a huge divide between males and females. Males are apt to be as conservative as any Anglo male on social issues, including on illegal immigration. Not so the females, who are extremely suspicious of Republicans and conservatives generally. The idea that securing the border is codespeak for bigotry emanates from within the women. The problem is the women influence the men.

Anonymous said...

Maybe if the pollsters had worded the question differently and made la Raza one of multiple choices. Some people you have to give more help to, you know.

Anonymous said...

A lot of Hispanic music artists (Jennifer Lopez, Marc Anthony, Colby O'Donis, Ricky Martin) are PR too.

What is it about Puerto Ricans? Does having black ancestry make them more charismatic and verbal?

Considering what Lopez, Anthony, Martin etc look like, I'm going to go out on a limb and say "Hell, no!". They seem to have zero black ancestry.

It looks like white ancestry is the key to success among "Hispanics".

Anonymous said...

Where does this nonsense about blacks being "charismatic and verbal" come from? No doubt there are individual black people who fit that description, but on the whole black's appear to be less "charismatic and verbal" than e.g. whites.

Anonymous said...

"Because African-Americans are not necessarily lacking in self-esteem, “A few in the poll, 1 percent, named themselves”."

rotfl.

Anonymous said...

Whites are even more leaderless. In face, they are not even allowed to have any.

airtommy said...

What is it about Puerto Ricans? Does having black ancestry make them more charismatic and verbal?

Alternatively, what is it about Mexican Mestizos that they are such low achievers in virtually every facet of life? And why are we letting in tens of millions of them?

Anonymous said...

Where does this nonsense about blacks being "charismatic and verbal" come from? No doubt there are individual black people who fit that description, but on the whole black's appear to be less "charismatic and verbal" than e.g. whites.

Not the guy you're replying to, but is that really accurate?

Black American 'culture' seems to have spread all across the world. Young males are particularly prone to engaging in its mannerisms, speech, dress etc. It's quite prevalent in Eastern Europe. I believe one commenter on here talked about its effect in Australia. Black culture seems very attractive to young people, especially if they don't have to live with said blacks. From a safe distance, e.g. across an Ocean, American blacks seem very charismatic indeed.

One amusing example: Though British Pakistanis tend to hate blacks, I always hear them (and other South Asians plus many lower class Whites) call each other 'blood,' the word black people in Britain use for each other. They're similar to Mexicans in that they loathe blacks but just can't resist imitating their culture.

josh said...

Jessica Alba?

Anonymous said...

Not the guy you're replying to, but is that really accurate?

Yes, it is very accurate.

And black American "culture" being spread around the globe (by wealthy white people) has nothing to with the matter of whether or not blacks are "charismatic" or "verbal". The notion that blacks are "charismatic" is of very recent origin.

Youth culture today fetishizes homosexuality, because homosexuals are portrayed wonderfully in mainstream education/indoctrination.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what actual homosexual people are like.

Anonymous said...

From a safe distance, e.g. across an Ocean, American blacks seem very charismatic indeed.

How do people "across an ocean" form any opinion at all about American inner-city blacks? From TV and movies and music, which tells them very little about American inner-city blacks but a lot about how wealthy white liberals want American inner-city blacks to be viewed. Apparently they're all tough, cynical, muscular, "bad", fight against "The Man", play a lot of basketball, have rhythm, and treat women like bitches and ho's.

Why do I get the impression that I'm the only person commenting here who's spent any time around blacks? (I'm including "Truth" in this)

Anonymous said...

"What is it about Puerto Ricans? Does having black ancestry make them more charismatic and verbal?"

And in the case of J-Lo, makes her butt enormous.

Maybe she has Armenian ancestry.

Anonymous said...

@Josh

Jessica Alba is about as Mexican as Carlos Slim.

Anonymous said...

Youth culture today fetishizes homosexuality

...what? There are few, if any places where it's 'cool' for a young guy to be gay, no matter how hard the media tries to push it.

If the people don't want to buy it, the selling will fail.

Anonymous said...

Apparently they're all tough, cynical, muscular, "bad", fight against "The Man", play a lot of basketball, have rhythm, and treat women like bitches and ho's.

Give or take a few, isn't that pretty much all they do/are, especially the bitches and ho's part (paging Whiskey)?

I'm not saying they're the badass supermen that the non-gentile media portrays them as (we rarely hear about black obesity levels), but they seem to have enough charisma, to make groups that hate them want to be like them. This applies to groups that live with them in close quarters (Latinos, Pakistanis, low class prole Whites) and groups far away (check out Russian and Serbian nationalist rap).

You can't have a charismatic 'culture' without a large quantity of charismatic people.

Anonymous said...

RE: Jessica Alba,

She had a DNA analysis of her ancestry on the George Lopez show; she's 87% White European and 13% Amerind. Brett Favre, at 25% Choctaw is actually less White than Alba.


RE: Jennifer Lopez's behind,

No need to invoke non-White ancestry. Lots of Whites, particularly Whites of Mediterranean origin, have big rear ends.

Anonymous said...

RE: Jennifer Lopez's behind,

No need to invoke non-White ancestry. Lots of Whites, particularly Whites of Mediterranean origin, have big rear ends.


And in Walmarts across the South and Mid-West you can see all the big white rear ends you could ever want.

Anonymous said...

I'm not saying they're the badass supermen that the non-gentile media portrays them as (we rarely hear about black obesity levels

I hear quite enough about black obesity levels, along with the usual whine that Whitey somehow forcefeeds junk food to Blacky to make them fat and obedient.

Difference Maker said...

I'm not saying they're the badass supermen that the non-gentile media portrays them as (we rarely hear about black obesity levels), but they seem to have enough charisma, to make groups that hate them want to be like them. This applies to groups that live with them in close quarters (Latinos, Pakistanis, low class prole Whites) and groups far away (check out Russian and Serbian nationalist rap).

They're also given free rein to indulge their impulses, while our native youthful vigor is suppressed.

Maya said...

"...what? There are few, if any places where it's 'cool' for a young guy to be gay, no matter how hard the media tries to push it."

I disagree. Throughout the 2000s, the typical generic teenagers who weren't into hiphop, were into emo/"indie" rock. In high school and college, I've known a lot of guys who wore eyeliner to clubs, concerts and parties and claimed to be bisexual, even though they only seemed to be dating girls. In 2006, my own 13 year old sister informed me that she and all her friends were bi, and they posted obviously fake pictures of themselves kissing on Myspace. The biggest non hip hop acts in America in the 2000s were Fallout Boy and My Chemical Romance. Both frontmen actively promoted gay image. In Europe, the biggest acts were Placebo and Tokio Hotel. Both front men were cross dressers and openly into men.

Anonymous said...

Hey, guys. Sailer makes a topic about Hispanics...... and it turns into a discussion about blacks.

Tells you all you need to know about both groups.

Anonymous said...

In Britain, whites love blacks from the Carribean. Having a black buddy or BF is the in thing. Even more than the US, the Black British have a very glamorous and superstar image.

Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, meanwhile, just seem to piss British people off. You talk to any Brit, and they'll tell you they don't like the "Pakis."

Indians have an image as the nerds of the country - studious, low profile, toiling long hours in corner stores.

All three groups of people showed up at about the same time in the 1950s/1960s era, but they all have different images.

Why? Maybe it's because blacks tend to be charismatic, masculine, athletic. Indians are hardworking and beta. Pakistanis/Bangladeshis are beta too, but without the work ethic and with a fundamentalist/no-fun religion.

Anonymous said...

No guy thinks it's cool to be gay.

ben tillman said...

Hey, guys. Sailer makes a topic about Hispanics...... and it turns into a discussion about blacks.

Tells you all you need to know about both groups.


If this is a contest, you are clearly the winner.

Anonymous said...

No guy thinks it's cool to be gay.

Yes. The comments here about 'youth culture' are off the mark (surprise). De-stigmatization does not equal being cool.

RKU said...

NOTA: I suspect that ethnic politics in the US gets skewed by two weird special cases (blacks and Jews) that don't work very well as models for other cases (like Hispanics or Asians or, for that matter, women or gays). Unlike blacks, Hispanics are from a whole bunch of different countries, and first generation immigrants still think of themselves as Mexican or Salvadoran or Peruvian or whatever. And their kids mostly assimilate into American norms, speak English, and intermarry with American blacks and whites.

Yes, that's exactly my own model as well. The rest of NOTA's analysis is also spot-on correct.

Maya said...

Blacks are seen as cool/charismatic around the world because American media portrays them as such. I've lived in Eastern Europe, Western Europe and Asia, and 90% of the movies, TV shows and music consumed in each location was American. The world believes and imitates what the American pop culture concocts. You can find smooth, charismatic guys in any major group. The reason Americans latched onto the blacks is that it's our historic underclass. Dominant cultures love to create folk heroes and charismatic characters from the underclass cultures that the normally shun.

Maya said...

"No guy thinks it's cool to be gay."

There is nothing inherently cool or uncool about being gay. To a straight man, a feminine homosexual is neither a rival nor an interest. Judging by your comment, you come from a culture that shuns gay men and anything/anyone associated with them as pathetic and non masculine. So you feel the need to assert your masculinity by assuring everyone that you don't think gays are cool.

That's the exact same reason many guys I grew up around thought or acted like they thought that gays WERE cool. A huge number of girls were into Pete Wentz, Brian Molko,Gerard Way, Bill Kaulitz and Russel Brand. These men's images rested on being homosexual, lying about being homosexual or acting homosexual. They all wore obvious make up or outright cross dressed. All of them engaged in or alluded to engaging in gay behavior. Meanwhile, they all had huge female followings. Must have had a huge male following as well to get as big as they did. The bands of the frontmen I listed were top act in America, Britain, Germany and the world. Can you believe that the ultra gay, cross dressing Placebo is at the very top of the charts each time they come out with a new record in the macho Latin America? And Russel Brand is very successful as well (although I'm not quite sure what it is that he does). Boys of that time adopted the image necessary to get girls. What's so unusual about that?

Svigor said...

I'm not saying they're the badass supermen that the non-gentile media portrays them as (we rarely hear about black obesity levels), but they seem to have enough charisma, to make groups that hate them want to be like them.

Which is why Africa is dominating worldwide culture, obviously. Big-time duh.

But by your own metric, aren't whites a lot more charismatic than blacks?

RKU said...

I should also mention that the Hispanic "leadership" numbers really aren't all that low. For example, I'd think that the same question would produce much lower numbers among Asians, since all the Asian immigrant groups speak different languages and watch different TV channels. So maybe the top "Asian leader" might be someone like Steve Chu, but with an absolutely dismal score.

And what would be the "leadership" numbers for white American ethnic groups like Irish, Italians, Southerners, or Scandinavians? Probably almost negligible, though forty-odd years ago the Kennedies might have had very strong numbers with the Irish. I'd think Mormons would have very strong numbers today, and maybe some other Christian groups if the survey allowed that stratification.

As for polling white Americans about who their "white American leaders" are, anyone who tried that would surely be reported to the Stasi by the local Tea Partiers.

So overall, I'd guess that among dozens of American ethnic/racial groups, the low Hispanic numbers might still put them towards the top in having "official leadership."

Svigor said...

Dominant cultures love to create folk heroes and charismatic characters from the underclass cultures that the normally shun.

Palestinian folk heroes and celebrities, coming to an Israeli TV near you.

RKU said...

Well, I might as well add one final observation...

Everyone knows that some groups like blacks and gays receive absolutely massive media exposure in American movies and TV, while other groups like Hispanics and Asians receive very little at all.

Now there are obviously lots of different reasons for this, which have often been discussed on this blogsite. But I think there's one additional reason, and a very important one. The former groups are generally hostile to mainstream American society and its traditional norms, while the latter groups are not...

Anonymous said...

Judging by your comment, you come from a culture that shuns gay men and anything/anyone associated with them as pathetic and non masculine.

I'm an American and up here, gays are not looked up to by most men. I, personally, don't have anything against gays, but I'm not going to start acting like them if I want to raise my status in society. American women go for athletic, muscular, macho types of guys. Call them alpha males or whatever, but ladies men in general are the complete opposite of gays. Some of the artsy or poetic types do well too among women, but even those guys have sort of a masculinity to them.

Women like gay guys only as non-threatening friends. They seem them as trendy, fashionable, and girlish in personality.... They don't view them as love interests.

If you act gay, you will make female friends. You will not be making women swoon.

To make women swoon, build a large muscular body. Do a macho walk and adopt a tough guy persona. Do not imitate Justin Bieber.

Anonymous said...

There are few, if any places where it's 'cool' for a young guy to be gay, no matter how hard the media tries to push it.

You clearly don't live in one of America's major cities.

Anonymous said...

Maybe it's because blacks tend to be charismatic, masculine, athletic.

Except for the fact that blacks tend to not be any of these things, that's exactly right.

That may be the way you effete British whites chose to depict them, but that's not what they are.

Anonymous said...

I, personally, don't have anything against gays, but I'm not going to start acting like them if I want to raise my status in society. American women go for athletic, muscular, macho types of guys.

A lot of gay men are athletic, muscular, and macho.

Truth said...

"Why do I get the impression that I'm the only person commenting here who's spent any time around blacks? (I'm including "Truth" in this)"

I don't know, I've had a black roommate for 44 years, you?

"Hey, guys. Sailer makes a topic about Hispanics...... and it turns into a discussion about blacks."

That is too funny.

Maya said...

"I'm an American and up here, gays are not looked up to by most men. I, personally, don't have anything against gays, but I'm not going to start acting like them if I want to raise my status in society. American women go for athletic, muscular, macho types of guys. Call them alpha males or whatever, but ladies men in general are the complete opposite of gays. Some of the artsy or poetic types do well too among women, but even those guys have sort of a masculinity to them.

Women like gay guys only as non-threatening friends. They seem them as trendy, fashionable, and girlish in personality.... They don't view them as love interests.

If you act gay, you will make female friends. You will not be making women swoon.

To make women swoon, build a large muscular body. Do a macho walk and adopt a tough guy persona. Do not imitate Justin Bieber."


I'm an American too. There are a lot of different cultures in America, and I don't mean the immigrant cultures.

In major urban areas what you described, generally, doesn't apply to white people. Huge muscular bodies aren't in vogue. If an alpha male is the one who gets most girls to swoon than major american cities (I grew up in one and went to college in another) have very different types of alpha males than what you describe. The artsy, poetic types do A LOT better than a jock, or god forbid a body builder. Of course the artsy types have some masculinity about them. So do many gay guys. I gave you major examples of the icons who achieved worship of young women and have been emulated by young men from the white American and Western European pop culture of the 2000s. Again, America has many different cultures and I can only speak about my experiences in major northern liberal cities.

Anonymous said...

Truth: "I don't know, I've had a black roommate for 44 years, you?"

Jesus. What did you do? Hold up the Wells Fargo and shoot the witnesses?
Gilbert P.

Truth said...

"A lot of gay men are athletic, muscular, and macho."

"muscular" and "athletic" are not, nearly interchangeable. I have met many (overt) gays who were "muscular" and very few who were "athletic." "Athletic" pertains to taking part in a physical competitive enterprise, not bodybuilding.

I feel that very few gay guys run ball on the local playground, or compete in wrestling tournaments or football games.

As far as "macho" goes, it comes from "machismo" which means feeling superior to women...well duh.

skiffle said...

"..to make groups that hate them want to be like them."

Nobody really "wants to be like them." Well, hardly anybody. They are just entertainment when safely at a distance. Their propensity for politics is to be expected. Generally the least intelligent and ethical of people, least genuinely empathetic and most egotistical, most phoney and most extroverted, and most greedy, become politicians.
There are exceptions, but that's the generality. Anyone who thinks otherwise, and there are many, is deluded and in denial.

Anonymous said...

"Alternatively, what is it about Mexican Mestizos that they are such low achievers in virtually every facet of life? And why are we letting in tens of millions of them?"


They aren't a threat to the elite like whites or perhaps even Asians.

Reg Cæsar said...

I suspect that ethnic politics in the US gets skewed by two weird special cases (blacks and Jews) that don't work very well as models for other cases (like Hispanics or Asians or, for that matter, women or gays.) --NOTA

Did somebody sleep through the Tracy Morgan fiasco? A certain segment of the white population managed to make a black man grovel for days on end. And they weren't wearing yarmulkes.

When these folks went after Richard Pryor, at least he fought back. Now, everyone caves. Where are Sharpton and Jackson? On the other side!!

Reg Cæsar said...

Don't miss this important Hispanic leader.

¡Mira que tiene cosa la maricón esta! ¡Ai que barbaridad!

Someone's got some 'splainin' to do.

Double Maduro said...

White face, black ass.

The formula for making J-Lo a multimillionairess.


On the other hand, Susannah McCorkle had the same attributes and they did her no good. McCorkle was about a hundred times the singer.

I've always suspected by her behavior (her incredibly foul mouth and her being an abortionist)as well as her appearance that Frank Sinatra's mother Dolly was a Jewess. Son Frank and granddaughter Nancy Jr. shared one attribute-no discernible ass to speak of. From their thighs to their back is one straight line. While many Jews have big butts, I have seen this characteristic in Sephardic Jews before and, the Sinatras apart, no where else.

Anonymous said...

Susannah McCorkle is part of my music collection.  JLo?  Not.

Tony Danton said...

Susannah McCorkle came over to my daughter's school for a music program in the early nineties. Her rented car broke down and I wound up giving her a ride to the airport. She was enormously intelligent, although a rabid leftist.

She killed herself in 2001 sometime before 9/11. Her whole family had been in and out of the bug house and there were several suicides. Steve would probably enjoy reading her biography and have interesting comments to make about that situation.