March 23, 2012

The missing M word in the George Zimmerman story

Lately, the press has started to wake up to the fact that the shooter in the sad Trayvon Martin case doesn't look like the image conjured up by the initial reports of him as "white." But what is he?

If you go to Google News and type in 


you get exactly one hit: a blog at the leftist Catholic magazine Commonweal by Eduardo PeƱalver, an American-born Cornell law professor, that makes this commonsensical point:
The Trayvon Martin case has justifiably generated an enormous volume of commentary.  One of the most interesting aspects of this commentary is the difficulty people have had in grappling with how to categorize George Zimmerman, the shooter.  At first, he was described merely as “white.”  This allowed the case fit nicely into the paradigm of Black-White race relations.  A black teenager is shot and killed by a gun-toting, white vigilante, and the white police chief leading a police force with a troubled racial past declines to recommend charges against the shooter. 
Then it came out that Zimmerman’s mother is Latina (she’s Peruvian).  His photo (at least to me) reveals a man who looks mestizo.  And yet commentators are reluctant to give up the white label.  In an article this morning, the New York Times describes him as a “white Hispanic.”  James Fallows says the case “involves the shooting of a young black man by a young white man, and the failure of the white-run Southern police department to take any action against the killer.”  Others emphasize Zimmerman’s white half and suggest that it’s the half that matters more.  These efforts show how confusing the Latino category is to traditional American racial tropes, particularly when we are talking about a case like this one that pushes all of our pre-civil rights buttons. ...
I get that Zimmerman’s supposed “whiteness” is part of what sells this story as a cause celebre for a great many people.  And I’m not trying to insert myself into a debate about how people ought to be describing Zimmerman.  As a Latino, what I find interesting about the case is what it reveals about the resilience of the black-white racial paradigm in our culture.  Several decades into the explosion of the Latino population, and we are still trying to figure out what to do with Latinos and, for the most part, still struggling to shoe-horn Latino racial identity into those two boxes. 

It's hardly surprising that a left-of-center Catholic Latino intellectual would be aware of the increasingly useful term "mestizo" because of the long awareness of his movement with Latin America, liberation theology, and the rest. What's striking is how ignorant the rest of the American commentariat is. 

Look, we have over 50,000,000 self-identified Latinos in the U.S. Now that we're multicultural, we're are supposed to be sensitive to their culture, but a crucial part of their culture consists of terms like mestizo, mulatto, Indio, and so forth. But instead we're just dumb as a box of rocks because we're terrified that employing useful Latin American terms is raciss.

153 comments:

Anonymous said...

Bob Dylan's real last name is Zimmerman, so maybe the killer should be described as Jewish.

No Name said...

you've written about this before. The left and their boredom with "latinos". But why is that? Its because most Latino's are Catholic and don't really have any grudge against Western Civilization or white people. The Liberals love that they're poor and non-white but otherwise, dullsville.

BTW, if Zimmerman is Meitzo, who was his father, was he Jewish?

Anonymous said...

Now that this guy stands accused of killing Obama's putative son, Good Luck to him.

Meanwhile, the President's community-organized city enjoyed some peaceful lull.

Anonymous said...

Re: "Obama's putative son," I was referring to this headline.

Steve Sailer said...

"BTW, if Zimmerman is Meitzo, who was his father, was he Jewish?"

I dunno. Was Arthur Zimmerman, the Kaiser's Foreign Minister in 1917, who sent the disastrous Zimmerman Telegram to the president of Mexico proposing Mexico invade America (and then gave a speech admitting it wasn't a British forgery), Jewish?

Anonymous said...

Zimmerman isn't necessarily a Jewish name.

I think people are assuming it's Jewish because people often tend to assume Germanic surnames in the US are Jewish. And such an assumption isn't necessarily a wrong one in parts of the country like the urban Northeast. Florida is also associated with Jewish residence so that's also a factor.

Anonymous said...

Others emphasize Zimmerman’s white half and suggest that it’s the half that matters more.

Not to everyone.

Bill said...

Well, this explains (two reasons) why Geraldo was sticking up for the shooter.

Anonymous said...

Ain't it a whiff of similarity?

jody said...

still hard to believe so many people are letting the US media play them this way, again.

this case just isn't important. personally, i'm thoroughly impressed by how the american media can play this trick over and over and over, and americans don't wise up to it. a couple years from now, they'll play this trick again, picking out some totally irrelevant local news story and giving it 24 hour national coverage, to whip people up into a frenzy.

the only thing i wonder is if this is them playing one of their favorite tricks when it was convenient, or if it's some kind of election year ploy.

i was surprised when the story about malia obama going to mexico, with 20 secret service agents, was pulled from most news sources, at the request of the white house. that shows what a complete grip over the news the democrats have. that was troubling.

Joe said...

Zimmerman looks like a tanned Chaz Bono.

Kaz said...

@Jody

Funny thing is, I have no idea what the American people have to say about the controversy.

All I've heard is media conglomerates pushing the same story, same angle, same everything. And you know the black mobs that somehow seem to organize out of no where when something like this happens in the 'black community'.

jody said...

with respect to steve's point about the missing M word, this guy sums it up perfectly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDHOydkudss

in the US, people shift from one category to another, depending on which political agenda the authorities are trying to pursue. the FBI even has specific rules for crime statistics, where mestizos always count as europeans when they are perpetrators, but when they are victims, they never count as europeans. this skews the crime statistics in two directions at the same time.

this is the same game some jewish people play with regard to identity. they can be white, or not white, depending on which suits them better in any particular situation. hold your knee jerk nazi comments. i'm not saying every person does this.

Anonymous said...

@jody it is the lead item of bbc news as well. Remember SWPL types WANT to be played. It allows them to live out their self-righteous fantasies.

Whiskey said...

By all accounts Zimmerman was adopted by a Jewish man, who has defended his adopted son saying he grew up speaking Spanish and had many friends of all kinds of races, including Black.

Going after this guy will cost the Jewish and Latino vote in Florida, not the smartest move. But Obama is tied into Chicago race-grievance politics. Create a mob. Which threatens and burns things. Maybe even egg on the mob to kill someone (Al Sharpton time). Then reap the rewards as everyone caves in.

Only this time, the reaction is likely to get some poor White kid set on fire (as happened in Miami in 2009 and more recently (last week) in Kansas City.) And the internet and particularly the Daily Mail which appeals to Blue Collar White women who can't escape NAMs or play the "I'm better than the wrong sort of White person" game keeps this stuff in the news. That playbook is as busted as the Wildcat formation in the NFL. Defenses caught on. There is a price for running the same offensive play all the time. Eventually you get exposed.

Anonymous said...

Meanwhile, the Prez ignores lots of black on white violence while shedding lots of tears over some dude that a Hispanic offed

MC said...

Sean Trende of RealClearPolitics wasn't afraid to bring up Mestizos:

http://twitter.com/#!/SeanTrende/status/182640970783920128

Overrated Pseudo said...

Zimmerman was a Catholic altar boy.

Latinos are facing more political trouble as they become more numerous. Do they really threaten white-black coalition within the Democrats?

Latinos were raised to think of themselves as a minority, so hey say identity politics things that blacks say all the time without rebuke.

In Denver's redistricting fight, one Latina councilwoman got into trouble. She was trying to keep a safe Latino seat in a gentrifying area, I think, when she advocated "defending everyone’s right to elect a Denver City Council representative that looks and talks like them and who is responsive to their needs."

Of course, urban white liberals promptly accused her of racism.

Kylie said...

"Others emphasize Zimmerman’s white half and suggest that it’s the half that matters more.

Not to everyone.[links to story about Obama self-identifying only as black on the US Census]"


Huh? Do you think if Zimmerman were half black, half mestizo that Obama would have claimed Trayvon as his imaginary son? The white half matters very much to Obama. It allows him to vent his personal animus for political gain--the ultimate two-fer for a race man in politics.

Anonymous said...

Doesn't Zimmerman look a bit like Chavez of Venezuela?

Seems he is everyone's leftist hero, so Zimmerman should be too.

Anonymous said...

because we're terrified that employing useful Latin American terms is raciss.

Well, according to the state religion of PC - it is. Noticing anything is raciss.

Anonymous said...

Some internets detectives have done a quasi-reconstruction of the crime scene:

http://destructure.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/trayvon-martin-faq/

It turns out that 250 pound Mr Zimmerman may not infact have run down 160 pound Trayvon.

Chief Seattle said...

Between the French Muslim killer and the hispanic vigilante it's been a lousy week for the leftist "white bad" narrative.

It's been a great week for blacks though. For a few precious days they get to forget that their per-capita murder rate is 10 times whites, that 25% of their men are in prison, and that latinos now out number them and instead blame whitey like it was 1992 all over again.

Mr. Anon said...

Jesse Jackson has now inserted his snout into this trough, as of course has Al Sharpton. Even Obama has now sought to make some hay out of it.

Strange, I don't recall either of those two store-front-preachers condeming the black hoodlums who raped, tortured and murdered Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom, or even mentioning it in passing. Jackson even had the termerity to say that "blacks are under attack" - this after the year of the flash-mob. What a couple of reprehensible swine they are.

RKU said...

Steve Sailer: I dunno. Was Arthur Zimmerman, the Kaiser's Foreign Minister in 1917, who sent the disastrous Zimmerman Telegram to the president of Mexico proposing Mexico invade America (and then gave a speech admitting it wasn't a British forgery), Jewish?

Anonymous: Zimmerman isn't necessarily a Jewish name.

I think people are assuming it's Jewish because people often tend to assume Germanic surnames in the US are Jewish.


Actually, the ambassador's name was "Zimmermann" with two final n's, just as one would expect. That's the usual marker for distinguishing Jewish and non-Jewish "Germanic" names. I'm not exactly sure why---maybe it's a difference between German and Yiddish or something.


On the main question, I suspect one reason white liberals almost never use the term "mestizo" is because they fear it's "racist." However, all the Hispanics themselves always use the term as a neutral descriptive, and I suspect they're a little puzzled about white Americans tend to avoid it. Must be some strange American custom or something....

My guess is that whites know perfectly well that Hispanics always use that term. But they also know that young blacks tend to always use certain racial terms describing blacks which can get whites into gigantic trouble if they do the same. So they tend to be very cautious about using "mestizo"

Lawful Neutral said...

I think the last word in this column has a typo. I'd advise you to correct it quickly, Steve.

Anonymous said...

That's the usual marker for distinguishing Jewish and non-Jewish "Germanic" names. I'm not exactly sure why---maybe it's a difference between German and Yiddish or something.

Yes I've noticed this tends to be the case. But I don't think it's an ironclad law or anything. I've come across non-Jews with the single "n" and Jews with the double "n" before.

Anonymous said...

Part of it might be not simply the explicit racial connotation of the term, but the negative connotation that terms connoting mixed blood have historically had, e.g. "half-breed", "half-caste", "half-blood", etc.

Anonymous said...

Somehow "mixed" and "mixed race" are still acceptable terms in America but if you use a foreign word which means the same thing, like "mulatto" or "mestizo", it becomes super-evil.

J said...

As the population of America is becoming more mixed, the old Black and White categories lose their validity. Already most police enforcers and judges dealing with violent crime are non white, so the racism accusation will be meaningless. Already the stereotyping of Zimmerman as a White Racist is becoming a joke. Soon the only effective classification will be class.

Anonymous said...

Look.
It's as simple as this.

White = Evil
Black = Good.

I know this is an inversion of the traditional color attributions (nothing to do with race, mind), but that is the simplistic paradigm pea-brained lefties cling too.
And by the way, it's white men who are generically labelled evil, white women declare themselves perpetual victims when it suits them.

On another note, the Trayvon Martin case is international news, a common or garden American murder, of which there are dozens daily, is the lead news story on the TV bulletin across Europe - displacing Syria and Iran.Incredible, not even domestic murders are covered by the national TV news.
There is a strong sense of a holy taboo being violated, eg the profane smashing to pieces an ancient hallowed icon, an ascetic holy man being murdered and anally raped, a saint being boiled alive in the Roman arena, a koran being burned etc etc.
It seems deep down that the lefty and US media meme is that blacks are gods that descend from heaven carrying holiness and benediction and whites are nazi stormtroopers/old school southern bigots/bullies/psychopaths/kitten drowners and hell fiends all rolled into one.

Anonymous said...

As I remember from high school 'Zimmerman' means 'carpenter' in German.

So perhaps there are many gentile Zimmermans about.
Strangely enough 'Ackerman' means 'farmer'.Whose ever heard of a German Jewish farmer?

Heliogabalus said...

I wonder how the Spanish-language (and Hispanic-oriented English-language) media in the US is playing this. Are there calls to defend Zimmerman going out? Much outrage in Miami and LA?

VI said...

He's obviously more white than Amerindian, as you'd expect from the mixing between a Peruvian woman who probably has a lot of European genes and a white guy.

But few black people on the ground would call this guy white. It's the media that's building a black vs white story.

Anonymous said...

My fav racial term that everybody knows in the South but you can't use is "redbone".

Iberian said...

But, english it´s his first language, no? - So he is Anglo. He is less Latim than any French from Quebec...

Carol said...

Why do conservative commentators feel they have to take a loud anti-racist position on this incident. It has nothing to do with us. In fact, it seems like all the NRO crowd does is claim they aren't like those other people. With notable exceptions, of course.

And I think Rush resisted.

Anonymous said...

"Strangely enough 'Ackerman' means 'farmer'.Whose ever heard of a German Jewish farmer?"

"Zimmerman" means carpenter. There were Yiddish-speaking carpenters in the Eastern European shtetls, which could be one explanation for that surname among Jews. However, given the surname's occupational origin, it's not surprising that there are many non-Jewish Zimmerman(n)s.

Grumpy Old Man said...

My cousin's aunt and uncle in Oklahoma had their home invaded. The aunt was raped and killed and the uncle will have to live in a home for the rest of his shortened life. Here's the story. Note the picture of the victims and the killer. I'd ask rhetorically why this is not a national outrage, but it would be futile.

Svigor said...

3/23/12 8:07 PM

Well, yeah, of course. But I think a lot of us are going with the, "yeah okay whatever but...the guy's a mestizo FFS" thing.

Kylie said...

"Already the stereotyping of Zimmerman as a White Racist is becoming a joke."

Really? I bet George isn't laughing.

Kylie said...

"'because we're terrified that employing useful Latin American terms is raciss.'

Well, according to the state religion of PC - it is. Noticing anything is raciss."


No, noticing anything about people of color is raciss. Noticing the misdeeds of whites--even if you have to fabricate those misdeeds first--is not only encouraged but obligatory.

It's back to Remedial PC for you!

Kylie said...

"Meanwhile, the Prez ignores lots of black on white violence while shedding lots of tears over some dude that a Hispanic offed."

Yes, he's a typical black person clinging bitterly to his [hired] guns (Eric "My People" Holder and the DOJ) and his religion (as espoused by the exiled ecclesiastic, Jeremiah Wright).

By the way, I noticed how when a bunch of black guys raped an Hispanic girl, she wasn't white. But when a Hispanic guy killed a black guy, the killer was white. Weird how that works. Weird and very effective.

Anonymous said...

Face it, a Latino killing a black 'kid' doesn't quite get the juices running like a white guy killing a black 'kid'.

But now suppose that Zimmerman had been out 'patrolling' his neighborhood and got accidentally shot by one of his fellow neighborhood watch pals. The story would run as a brave Latino, helping out in his crime-ridden neighborhood who had helped in solving a couple of the crimes, shot by a trigger-happy white guy. Who, whom.

As it happens, I suspect that this story is a bit complicated: Zimmerman was told to back off but he proceeded to follow Martin, who actually is not the boyish looking fellow in the photos but a 6-footer. This is stupidity squared on his part. It appears that somewhere along the way Martin knocked Zimmerman down and did some damage to his face and the back of his head. Perhaps both Zimmerman and Martin thought they were in mortal danger but only Zimmerman had a gun so he's alive and Martin isn't.

'Stand your ground' laws are largely good. If you or another person is in danger of being hurt or killed, you may not be able to retreat far or fast enough to remain safe, especially if the other guy is armed. This wasn't such a case. Zimmerman could have simply left the area and let the police take over. He didn't, and by the time he shot Martin, he likely was in mortal danger.

There's enough blame to go around here, I'd say.

Anonymous said...

"President Obama on shooting of Florida teen Trayvon Martin: "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon." - http://bit.ly/qx5qjZ "

Obama plays racial politics and speaks out on the Trayvon thing. Did he say anything about Omar Thorton's murdering white people, all the black on white rapes that occur, all the 'youth' mobs that terrorized America last summer? No, but he's standing up for a negro, just like he done for skipper gates. jiveass mofo.

Anonymous said...

New York Times not likely to cover this side of SA.

PublicSphere said...

More East Coast bias: in the part of the country between State College, PA and Williston, ND, a Germanic last name is more likely to be German than Jewish.

Not sure about Florida though.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jewish1346.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:German1346.gif

Jorge said...

Well, okay, Steve, you may have a point in there somewhere, and maybe you are being a little sarcastic, but come on. Do you really believe that "confusion" over how to classify Zimmerman is what explains the media's reluctance to classify him as Hispanic? Don't you think it's more likely they are just reluctant to drop the accusation that he is "white"? And labeling him EITHER Hispanic or Mestizo would eliminate the white angle to some extent.

Zimmerman is Hispanic. He looks Hispanic. His "mother" (adoptive?) is "from" Peru. (Obama is black after all.) And probably at least 50% of the inhabitants of Latin America are of mixed (meso-American + European) ancestry and they are considered Hispanic. Just call it like it is.

David said...

Strangely enough 'Ackerman' means 'farmer'.Whose ever heard of a German Jewish farmer?

There are very few because Europeans prohibited Jews from toiling as peasant farmers and forced them to instead work as bankers, traders, doctors, and lawyers.

Anonymous said...

If Trayvon Martin be like Obama's son, then all white victims of black crime be like our fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, cousins, nieces, nephews, etc.

But I guess it's okay for a black guy to invoke BLOOD TIES with his kind but not a white person. Imagine if a white politician said all those victims of Omar Thorton would like his family. The liberal Jews would eat him alive. Indeed, liberal Jewish media have gone after Romney for having a large extended white family.

No Name said...

I think its news in England so they British can smugly congratulate themselves on their "sane" gun-laws unlike those "crazy, violent Yanks".

The British always think of themselves as superior, but objective evidence is lacking, so these kind of stories help.

Anonymous said...

Uh oh. Witness says Zimmerman was attacked and there appears to be other evidence that he really acted in self defense.

Anonymous said...

As if Sharpton and Jessie Jackson aren't drama queens enough, now some members of the beloved (cough)Miami Heat are showing why black culture never gets genuine respect: they are donning hoodies.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/23/wade-tweets-picture-to-support-trayvon/


Drama, drama, drama. Anything for publicity for one's self.

Anonymous said...

I suggest that reporters and candidates and constituents start pummeling Mr. Obama with questions about the violence of the flash mobs?

The flash mobs, Mr. President?

The flash mobs, Mr. President?

The flash mobs, Mr. President?

Anonymous said...

Hmmm. The facebook pics of Martin wearing his hoodie, giving the double bird to the camera don't suggest a clean-cut kid, although they also don't suggest a reason for offing him either.

Still, I'd rather a fuller picture of both Martin, Zimmerman, and the incident emerge from what's left of what used to be called journalists before Mr. Jackson and Mr. Sharpton, and all the race hustlers take over everything.

My Hispanic neighbors are very upset by this, and let me tell you--they aren't are Jackson and Sharpton's side, that's for sure.

The Dems had better be careful.

Anonymous said...

It amused me read the London Times article on the shooting.

The word Latino is in the last paragraph.

But, then, how many people would've bothered to read the sanctimonious, empty words it followed if it were instead in the first?

Anonymous said...

When my sister was engaged to my brother in law, whose surname is Zimmerman, I told her to invite his father to the Passover seder, asked if he had already been invited to another seder....she said to me, "actually, he's one of the Achtung Zimmermans, not one of the OyVey Zimmermans"...I had just assumed :)

RE: Obama's anguish over Trayvon: the same week this kid died, TEN black males were killed in Barack's "home" town of Chicago, and not a peep out of him. Fifty were shot, but forty survived thanks to good trauma surgery.

Anonymous said...

"Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman"

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

"Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT

ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all."

"Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting."

Anonymous said...

Whose ever heard of a German Jewish farmer?

Tax farmer?

Anonymous said...

To me it is a case of a brown guy killing a black guy. Whether or not it was self-defense is undetermined at this point. It no more involves whites then it does Orientals.

Anonymous said...

When those 20+ black males raped an 11 yr old hispanic girl in Texas, did Obama say 'If I had lots of sons, they would be like those rapists'.

Well, we do know what his uncle and his aunt were like.
Hey, since Obama is half-white(and so is Zimmerman), shouldn't he say 'if I had a son, he'd be like Zimmerman.'

Anonymous said...

The answer my friend was blowing away a black kid...

Anonymous said...

When blacks go on the attack, they is 'youths'. When one is killed, he be BLACK(even if he light skinned)!!!!.

Anonymous said...

"Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman"

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

"Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT
***********************************

I saw this. It won't stop Rev. Al or the Black Panthers or J. Jackson. They're in too deep.

If this had been a white kid wearing a hoodie as millions of white kids do, do you think Z. would have followed him? From all I've read, the answer is "yes".

Anonymous said...

"Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman"

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

"Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT
***********************************

I saw this. It won't stop Rev. Al or the Black Panthers or J. Jackson. They're in too deep.

If this had been a white kid wearing a hoodie as millions of white kids do, do you think Z. would have followed him? From all I've read, the answer is "yes".

Matthew said...

The standard is pretty simple actually:

1) When talking about crime rates, lump Hispanics in with whites.

2) When talking about how Hispanics are poor and underrepresented and oppressed, especially for purposes of affirmative action, separate them from whites.

Anonymous said...

In KC, two black kids doused a white kid with gas and lit him on fire...

Police: Pair Set 13-Year-Old Boy On Fire

Boy Treated At Hospital For Burns

Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/30572405/detail.html#ixzz1q4EQHhGj

Anonymous said...

The missing "m" word is a valid point. I think some groups are trying to paint Zimmerman as your typical, garden variety gringo. Just like others would like to paint him as Jewish or German. I think it's only important in pointing out what he is in so far as it can be used to shut people down who have an agenda. And if a suitable demographic box shows up to check then I'll say Zimmerman represents himself only. However, I certainly wouldn't mind if he did turn out to be your typical, garden variety gringo because I believe he's innocent and I'd love to be able to rub it in their faces. What do you want to bet that when that happens the MSM will go from calling him white to calling him Hispanic?

In conclusion, I'd like to offer a shameless plug for an FAQ I wrote on the Trayvon Martin shooting. I think it's the most through and well-documented one out there. And it completely the outrageous smears against him.

https://destructure.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/trayvon-martin-faq/

Truth said...

"Strange, I don't recall either of those two store-front-preachers condeming the black hoodlums who raped, tortured and murdered Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom,"

Strang-er; I don't remember you condemning George Zimmerman.

Truth said...

Uh Oh, the latest wrinkle in the case. The original police report had the crime written up as Homicide-negligent manslaughter, unecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

Truth said...

zimmerman means "carpenter" in German.

Truth said...

"By the way, I noticed how when a bunch of black guys raped an Hispanic girl, she wasn't white."

Did her father have a German surname?

Truth said...

The "witness account" in no way says that Martin 'attacked' Zimmerman.

Attacked implies that he initiated the fisticuffs. The witness does not say that he saw this happen.

What the account says is that Zimmerman had his back on the ground and was getting pounded." Typical Fox affiliate sensationalism.

Anonymous said...

Half Sigma has a post up with some new info on Zimmerman and a recent pic of him:

http://www.halfsigma.com/2012/03/more-about-george-zimmerman.html

He looks more clean-cut, is thinner, and less physically intimidating and capable than the older pic of his more burly, biker or construction worker physique.

He's also Catholic, not Jewish, and apparently his father moved from Mexico and he might not be adopted.

I have actually known Catholic Hispanics that are racially mestizo with German surnames, descended from male German ancestors who immigrated to Latin America generations ago. This might be the case with Zimmerman if he's not adopted.

Anonymous said...

The Washington Post reports that his father is white and his mother is Latina, Peruvian to be specific:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/who-is-george-zimmerman/2012/03/22/gIQAkXdbUS_story.html

Anonymous said...

There are very few because Europeans prohibited Jews from toiling as peasant farmers and forced them to instead work as bankers, traders, doctors, and lawyers.


Oh, the humanity! Centuries of brutal oppression!

Anonymous said...

Attacked implies that he initiated the fisticuffs. The witness does not say that he saw this happen.

It's likely that Martin initiated the attack.

Anonymous said...

The Washington Post reports that his father is white and his mother is Latina, Peruvian to be specific.


I've read that his father moved here from Mexico, so "white" does not have its customary meaning in this case.

Truth said...

I wouldn't say so; an aggressor often gets the tables turned upon him in a confrontation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwQq456_g4g

Anonymous said...

"By the way, I noticed how when a bunch of black guys raped an Hispanic girl, she wasn't white."


Did her father have a German surname?


O'Neill is an Irish surname. I guess Troot does not regard Shaquille O'Neal as being black.

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't say so;

Yes, we know you wouldn't say so.

You've made it abundantly clear through your comments on this blog that you have absolutely no understanding of probability and statistical inference.

Truth said...

"I've read that his father moved here from Mexico, so "white" does not have its customary meaning in this case."

Mitt Romney's father moved here from Mexico.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/08/mitt-romney-mexican_n_1192694.html

Beecher Asbury said...

"Strange, I don't recall either of those two store-front-preachers condeming the black hoodlums who raped, tortured and murdered Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom,"

Strang-er; I don't remember you condemning George Zimmerman."


Truth, you can't be serious. You are comparing Zimmeran who is guilty of escalating a situation that led to an unnecessary murder with the thugs who kidnapped, raped, tortured and murder those kids in TN. In one case you have manslaughter at best and in the other you have heinous, premeditated murder.

Truth said...

The press does not describe Shaquile O'neal's father as "white."

Truth said...

"Truth, you can't be serious. You are comparing Zimmeran who is guilty of escalating a situation that led to an unnecessary murder with the thugs who kidnapped, raped, tortured and murder those kids in TN."

No, I'm comparing "Mr. Anon's" behavior with that of what he thinks Barry's should be.

Anonymous said...

'You get what you deserve, white boy': Boy, 13, doused in gasoline and set alight in racially-motivated attack

By Paul Thompson
UPDATED: 21:28 EST, 4 March 2012

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2110078/Boy-13-doused-gasoline-set-alight-racially-motivated-attack-Kansas-City.html

Police are investigating a possible race hate attack after a 13-year-old boy was doused in gasoline and set on fire.

The teenager, who suffered first degree burns to his face and hands, is white and his two attackers black.

His mother Melissa Coon said the attackers told her son 'This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy'.

Truth said...

"You've made it abundantly clear through your comments on this blog that you have absolutely no understanding of probability and statistical inference."

Great then post the Rand Corporation, "probability of fistfights that end up with the aggressor defeating the defender" chart, I had one, but you're right, I couldn't make heads or tails of it.

Anonymous said...

Trith said,

" 'What the account says is that Zimmerman had his back on the ground and was getting pounded.' Typical Fox affiliate sensationalism."


True enough, but it's counter to those idiots (media hucksters, Jackson, Sharpton, and all the other perpetual "We are victim" hucksters who have jumped to the conclusion that Zimmerman simply pulled out the gun and shot the kid and that he did so because Martin was black.

Why can't people wait for the facts?

Anonymous said...

Great then post the Rand Corporation...

Like I said, you have absolutely no understanding of probability or statistical inference.

Anonymous said...

Some of the recent articles on the story I've read have been describing Zimmerman as a "white Hispanic".

corvinus said...

For whatever reason, "mestizo" seems to give people in the government a brain seizure. I find it really annoying. Why isn't there a "mestizo" category in the U.S. Census? Instead, about half of Hispanics get put in the "white" category and the other half into "some other race"... which get combined with "white" anyway by many departments, forcing people to look up "non-Hispanic white" when they want to find data on unadulterated Europeans.

Yes, George Zimmerman is a mestizo. He looks like a mestizo. His mother is Peruvian. He's mestizo. Not white. But given the "bad Hispanic = white, good Hispanic = Hispanic" rule, he'll continue to get called "white".

Truth said...

"Like I said, you have absolutely no understanding of probability or statistical inference."

You didn't post any. What you meant to write was:

"Like I said, you have absolutely no understanding of the probability or statistical inference studies that don't exist because I've pulled them from underneath my dick."

Anonymous said...

Where is Mr. Obama's sadness about the 10 year old white boy set on fire by two teenaged black kids? Why didn't he call attention to it and say that 10 year old could have been his kid too had he had a son? Where is the media coverage about this incident? Where are Rev. Al and Rev. Sharpton?

Jeeeez.

Truth said...

"Why can't people wait for the facts?"

We don't see things the way they are, we see them the way we are
-Ayn Rand

You WANT the scenario to have occurred in one fashion, Al Sharpton in another.

Anonymous said...

studies that don't exist

It's called Bayesian inference. There is so much data out there - we're literally drowning in it - of black violence, criminality, impulsiveness, aggression, etc. We can make reasonable Bayesian inferences based on this data and the info from this case.

RKU said...

That's the usual marker for distinguishing Jewish and non-Jewish "Germanic" names.

Yes I've noticed this tends to be the case. But I don't think it's an ironclad law or anything. I've come across non-Jews with the single "n" and Jews with the double "n" before.

That's certainly true. I think what probably happened was that lots of Jews who moved to Germany tended to add an extra N to "blend in," while lots of Germans who moved to America tended to drop the extra N for the same reason (so their names would seem more Anglo-Saxon).


As for the main topic, I really haven't followed the story in the media, but I did skim through the discussion on the previous thread. And assuming the facts cited by Pincher Martin are accurate---which I have no reason to doubt---there's zero legal case against Zimmerman. In fact, I'd even say there's a good chance he was totally justified in everything he did, including the shooting. So unless "Truth" can reasonably rebut these facts, he's just making himself look totally ridiculous with his endless angry postings.

Truth said...

"There is so much data out there - we're literally drowning in it - of black violence, criminality, impulsiveness, aggression, etc. We can make reasonable Bayesian inferences based on this data and the info from this case."

Great, then take a little pitty on us 85 IQ folks and post some. Especially helpful would be some data on why "it is likely that Martin initiated" the confrontation.

Anonymous said...

Truth, from MSNBC, if you like that better...not a witness, but a neighbor, a friend of Zimmerman:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/21/10791755-neighbor-comes-to-defense-of-trayvon-martins-shooter?ocid=ansmsnbc11

Svigor said...

I have actually known Catholic Hispanics that are racially mestizo with German surnames, descended from male German ancestors who immigrated to Latin America generations ago. This might be the case with Zimmerman if he's not adopted.

Replace "German" with "Jewish" and you're describing a good many Mexicans.

Svigor said...

There are very few because Europeans prohibited Jews from toiling as peasant farmers and forced them to instead work as bankers, traders, doctors, and lawyers.

Sorta like how the evil white male patriarchy forces women into air conditioned jobs and reserves all the dangerous, sweaty outdoor jobs for itself.

Anonymous said...

The press does not describe Shaquile O'neal's father as "white."



Troot describes as "white" anybody with a name like "Zimmerman".

Is there anybody left who gives a damn what the press says? The press also describes George Zimmerman as white when he clearly is not. What's to say that their description of his father is any more accurate? I suspect that he is as "white" as his son is.

Anonymous said...

Truth:

"Why can't people wait for the facts?"

We don't see things the way they are, we see them the way we are
-Ayn Rand

You WANT the scenario to have occurred in one fashion, Al Sharpton in another.
***********************************

No, I want to wait; they don't.

Jackson and Sharpton are hustlers because they've made a living off of tragedies like this: radio shows, tv shows, donations from churches that go straight into their pockets, shake-downs of companies. You know what these guys are.

I blame Zimmerman for not letting the police handle this. His suspicion was understandable. His following the kid briefly was understandable. We have a neighborhood watch program which revved up 5 years ago when there were a series of daytime burglaries, even of homes with alarm systems. We'd never had this before, then 11 in a short period of a few months. Our neighborhood watch program police liaison counselled us to call and of course, counselled us to let them handle things from there.

The media, Sharpie and Jackson want to push the idea that only his race was what made Zimmerman "decide to shoot Martin." That's a leap. We don't know that he "decided to shoot" anyone. All we know is someone was shot and killed. We don't have any reason to believe that he wouldn't have followed a white kid or a Hispanic kid out at night in a hoodie. And we don't know who or what led to the actual face to face confrontation.

Waiting is prudent.

formerly no name said...

terms like mestizo, mulatto, Indio


Living in Latin America, it's my impression that those term are considered somewhat maleducado these days. But then Latin America is a big place.

,

Anonymous said...

I learned not to trust media accounts presentations of a crime with the Duke lacrosse case. I thought the guys were slam-dunk guilty. Bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Kylie said...

"'By the way, I noticed how when a bunch of black guys raped an Hispanic girl, she wasn't white.'

Did her father have a German surname?"


Irrelevant. First, as I'm sure your successful criminal defense lawyer bud has told you, the names of rape victims are routinely withhold from the public.

Second, now that you mention it, I doubt her father has a German surname. But then again, neither does the father of Soledad O'Brien.

I can't tell whether you're so dumb you don't realize that even after Zimmerman's photo was widely available, the MSM continued to refer to him as "white" or you're so dishonest that you think kicking up some dust around a valid point obscures its validity.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:

"Where is Mr. Obama's sadness about the 10 year old white boy set on fire by two teenaged black kids? Why didn't he call attention to it and say that 10 year old could have been his kid too had he had a son? Where is the media coverage about this incident? Where are Rev. Al and Rev. Sharpton?"

The perps looked like they could be his sons. You think he's going to own that?

morleysafer said...

All this talk of carpenters has me wondering if Linda Ronstadt has commented on the case yet

Anonymous said...

We have to move onto a new thread. Truth is taking too much of an active role in the comments. He is usually good for 1 or 2 decent comments per thread, but he can't carry the thread.

Truth said...

" can't tell whether you're so dumb you don't realize that even after Zimmerman's photo was widely available, the MSM continued to refer to him as "white" or you're so dishonest that you think kicking up some dust around a valid point obscures its validity."

He has a white father and his name is George Zimmerman, why could he not be called white, he doesn't look that much different than a few of the Sicilians I grew up with.

Now if his name was Hoar-hay Zimmermino it might me different.

Anonymous said...

"He has a white father and his name is George Zimmerman, why could he not be called white, he doesn't look that much different than a few of the Sicilians I grew up with.":

For the same reason Tiger Woods isn't called Amerasian (even though back when he was a teenager he thought of himself as such, according to what he said right before her turned pro and Nike signed him to a contract...whoa, said Nike, you be black...)

For the same reason Barack Obama isn't called white...

Kylie said...

"He has a white father and his name is George Zimmerman, why could he not be called white, he doesn't look that much different than a few of the Sicilians I grew up with."

She has a white father and her name (at birth) was Maria O'Brien, why could she not be called white, she doesn't look that much different than a few of the Slavs I grew up with.

Why? Because he and she are not white. Just as the POTUS is not black.

Fair play and common sense don't even come into it with you, do they? But then why should they when you're replying to one of us "racist ass kkkrakkkas" who are "ignorant, inbred, hateful bastards."

By the way, if any similarly insulting racist language referring to you has ever been posted here in the comment section, I missed it. Feel free to provide a link.

Kylie said...

"We have to move onto a new thread. Truth is taking too much of an active role in the comments."

Nothing new there.

In fact, I've decided my next financial contribution to this blog will come when Steve emails me* to say that my overall financial contribution as of right now has not yet equalled Truth's. I will gladly make up the difference. That's a one-time offer good up to $1000.

I eagerly await Steve's email.

*If Steve didn't keep my email address, he can just ask here for me to send it to him again.

Anonymous said...

If having the surname "Zimmerman" automatically makes someone white, does that mean that most American blacks are actually white? Because nearly every single one of them has a European surname.

"There are very few because Europeans prohibited Jews from toiling as peasant farmers."

Because who doesn't aspire to be a peasant farmer?

Were Jews in the Middle Ages obliged to perform military service, or was that "privilege" also reserved only for Christians? Because I've always wondered about the relative loss of life from military service versus that of Jews from persecution.

daveg said...

By all accounts Zimmerman was adopted by a Jewish man, who has defended his adopted son saying he grew up speaking Spanish and had many friends of all kinds of races, including Black.

Where did you get this Whiskey? I can't find anything to back this up.

Jorge said...

The key question about this incident--perhaps the only relevant question--is whether Trayvon Martin was within his rights in violently attacking George Zimmerman.

SF said...

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc-tv/46849124/#46849124

Zimmerman's day job was loan officer for a mortgage company.
What was his role? Was he the guy who handled the hispanic customers or a generalist? Could this tie in with another of Steve's signature stories, the mortgage mess?

Udolpho.com said...

Note, Troof does not quote Ayn Rand idly or by coincidence. He is a for real libertarian Objectivist, i.e. stupid or nuts or both.

corvinus said...

He has a white father and his name is George Zimmerman, why could he not be called white,

For the same reason an adopted Korean named George Zimmerman isn't white? Mestizos by definition are all half descended from whites, yet the Spaniards wouldn't call them "white" either.

he doesn't look that much different than a few of the Sicilians I grew up with.

I guess being black, "all y'all look alike!" -- but to us whites, he looks like Pedro the gardener. And Sicilians are hardly representative of Europeans. In fact, there was one Sicilian who looked so Amerindian he became an actor known as "Iron Eyes Cody".

Truth said...

"And Sicilians are hardly representative of Europeans. In fact, there was one Sicilian who looked so Amerindian he became an actor known as "Iron Eyes Cody"."

So they're not white?

Truth said...

"In fact, I've decided my next financial contribution to this blog will come when Steve emails me* to say that my overall financial contribution as of right now has not yet equalled Truth's."

Yeah, but Sportette, you're discounting my intellectual contribution. You'd have to have Martha Stewart's money to equal that.

Anonymous said...

"Truth" is Mr. Sailer's cyber-stalker.

Matthew said...

Zimmerman doesn't look heavily Amerindian - perhaps 25% or so. So we need to come up with some term to use to refer to him. What term is frequently applied to people with South American backgrounds with anywhere from 7/8ths to 1/8th Amerindian blood, where the rest is European? I swear it's on the tip of my tongue.

How would the media refer to him if he was the next hot NBA point guard? Or the latest Medal of Honor recipient? Or the most recent winner of the Intel Science competition? What term would Zimmerman himself use were he applying to Harvard, or for a small business loan, or bidding on a government contract?

All I know is that, despite being white myself, I frequently get called a racist for demanding we expel all of the these "white" illegal immigrants from south of the border. If Zimmerman is white, then I sure as hell better not get called a racist ever again. I suppose you could call me a "culturalist," but it doesn't have quite the same sting.

Anonymous said...

Bayesian inference and reasoning in some contexts is referred to as "prejudice", "bias", "racism", etc. Which is why those things are rational and reasonable.

Matthew said...

Heather Mac Donald has her take on it here. Spot on, as usual.

Anonymous said...

His dad is the Men's Wearhouse guy.

I guarantee it.

Kylie said...

"Yeah, but Sportette, you're discounting my intellectual contribution. You'd have to have Martha Stewart's money to equal that."

On the contrary, it was my private ruminations on your intellectual contributions that shamed me into offering to do public penance in a way that Steve can put to good use. My thoughts were not inaccurate but they were unkind.

You're lucky that money talks.

I'm waiting to hear from Steve.

By the way, isn't there a question about a newsworthy event that you want to ask me? It's related to a question you did ask me the other day.

Kylie said...

Udolpho: "Note, Troof does not quote Ayn Rand idly or by coincidence. He is a for real libertarian Objectivist, i.e. stupid or nuts or both."

And yet he manages to come across as brighter than you, if only by a scintilla.

Truth said...

"By the way, isn't there a question about a newsworthy event that you want to ask me? It's related to a question you did ask me the other day."

I'm old, Hun; I lose guessing games these days. I can't remember what I had for breakfast.

Truth said...

Yep Matthew, Heather MacDonald did an Excellent job with that piece.

Truth said...

The best take that I have read on the Zimmerman-Martin controversy* yet.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1815474/posts

Anonymous said...

Great, then take a little pitty on us 85 IQ folks and post some. Especially helpful would be some data on why "it is likely that Martin initiated" the confrontation.

There's lots of data on black violence, criminality, impulsiveness, aggression, etc. You can google it yourself.

It's Bayesian inference. You make judgments on probability based on prior data. With new information, you update the probabilities. None of the information about the case revealed so far suggest that the prior probability should be adjusted downward. The information strengthen the probability based on prior data.

Anonymous said...

Truth, to help you understand Bayesian inference, here's an example.

If you walk into a room with a baby, an adult man, and a diaper (assume for the sake of this example that the diaper is a generic one of indeterminate size i.e. you can't tell if it's an adult or baby diaper). You would judge that the diaper likely belongs to the baby, based on prior data of the preponderance of babies that wear diapers, especially relative to the paucity of adult men wearing diapers. If you find out new information that the adult man is normal and in good health, then you would raise the probability that the diaper belongs to the baby even more. If however you found out that the adult man had severe intestinal problems, you would adjust your prior probability downward.

Mr. Anon said...

"Beecher Asbury said...

Truth, you can't be serious. You are comparing Zimmeran who is guilty of escalating a situation that led to an unnecessary murder with the thugs who kidnapped, raped, tortured and murder those kids in TN. In one case you have manslaughter at best and in the other you have heinous, premeditated murder."

"Truth" apparently can't even comprehend simple prose. I mentioned "Barry" only parenthetically. I was talking about Jesse and Al.

And yes, "Truth" most assuredly is comparing the two incidents by implying that my reaction to these two very different incidents should be the same. One's reaction to the shooting of Trayvon Martin should not be the same as one's reaction to the vicious murders of Christian and Newsom. I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime, or if a crime was even committed. For all I know he killed Martin in the act of defending himself - a lawful act. I don't know.

There is no doubt however that Christian and Newsom were abducted by four black thugs, who viciously beat, sodomized, and murdered them. "Truth" wants you to believe that this is no worse than what happend to Trayvon Martin. In fact, if I recall correctly, in previous discussions on this board, "Truth" implied that Christian and Newsom were out looking to buy drugs, and so must have somehow brought upon themselves the horrific things which were done to them.

And let us not forget the zone-defence that "Truth" played after Omar Thornton's murderous rampage, trying to deflect and obscure any notice of the shameful way the media behaved after those murders.

And notice also how "Truth" only ever opens his ignorant yap when the subject in some way touches upon "his people", to use the words of our Attorney General. He claims to be just a neutral observer with no particular agenda. But he never makes a comment that does not pertain to blacks. He doesn't seem to care about any of the other topics that are discussed here. And yet, he consistently denies that he is nothing more than a mere "race man".

"Truth" is like a virtual Tom Joad for BBBs (blacks behaving badly) - wherever there's a black "youth" beating up a white guy, wherever there are black drug dealers defiling and exterminating a white couple, wherever some incompetent black petty thief decides to massacre everyone he works with - wherever those things happen, and white people notice and remark upon it - he'll be there.

At least Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are able to turn some coin as race-men. That "Truth" is unable to do so - by his own standard, which he has often enunciated here - just makes him a collossal loser.

Anonymous said...

Truth, here's how you apply Bayesian inference.

New information suggests that Martin was suspended for 10 days, not 5, and that it may have been for assaulting a bus driver:

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/trayvon-martin-s-ten-day-suspension

So now we can update our previous probability estimate and strengthen it upwards, since the previous estimate was based on general data of black criminality, and this is better, more specific data.

corvinus said...

"And Sicilians are hardly representative of Europeans. In fact, there was one Sicilian who looked so Amerindian he became an actor known as "Iron Eyes Cody"."

So they're not white?


I didn't say that. New Guineans and Melanesians aren't black genetically, even though they do look like y'all. Sicilians are on the edge of Europe, so they'll be a bit different from core Europeans.

But if the Sicilians can produce Iron Eyes Cody, you'll undoubtedly get some who look like mestizos. That goes without saying.

Truth said...

"...That "Truth" is unable to do so - by his own standard, which he has often enunciated here - just makes him a collossal loser."

I know you are but what am I?

Truth said...

One guy "may have" assaulted a bus driver as a teen, the other guy did assault a police officer and his girlfriend as an adult, and was arrested for both...and he wanted to BE a police officer, and spent all of his time pretending to be one; and that's probably why he couldn't get into the academy.

So what does that do, now to the "Bayesian inference"?

SF said...

I suspect justice would be best served if they forget the criminal charges and go right to a wrongful death lawsuit. Otherwise, you would end up with a hung jury on a manslaughter charge and Zimmerman's money, if he has any, would all go to his lawyer.

Anonymous said...

Churces held "hoodie services"? Oh, that's really a good example, really adult behavior, yeah, uh huh, and they wonder why nothing gets better in their neighborhoods, right, right.

Anonymous said...

Apologies--Martin's twitter account if of great interest

Anonymous said...

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer

FWIW.

Truth said...

"That "Truth" is unable to do so - by his own standard, which he has often enunciated here - just makes him a collossal loser."

Loser? Did somebody say loser?

Dude, I heard you called the suicide hotline last night...they tried to talk you INTO it.

Anonymous said...

From http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/former-naacp-leader-accuses-sharpton-and-jackson-of-exploiting-trayvon-martin/

"Former NAACP leader C.L. Bryant is accusing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton of 'exploiting' the Trayvon Martin tragedy to 'racially divide this country.'

“ 'His family should be outraged at the fact that they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,' Rev. C.L. Bryant said in a Monday interview with The Daily Caller.

"The conservative black pastor who was once the chapter president of the Garland, Texas NAACP called Jackson and Sharpton 'race hustlers' and said they are 'acting as though they are buzzards circling the carcass of this young boy.'"

Jackson, for example, recently said Martin’s death shows how “blacks are under attack” and “targeting, arresting, convicting blacks and ultimately killing us is big business.”
___________________________

Thank you, Mr. Bryant! I hope the networks will have you on.

Anonymous said...

Also from the same article,

"Bryant, who explores the topic of black-on-black crime in his new film 'Runaway Slave,' said people like Jackson and Sharpton are being misleading to suggest there is an epidemic of 'white men killing black young men.'

“ 'The epidemic is truly black on black crime,' Bryant said. 'The greatest danger to the lives of young black men are young black men.'"

Mr. Sharpton, Mr. Jackson, progressives, Mr. Obama, seem not to care that "The greates danger to the lives of young black men are young black men."

JSM said...

"...That "Truth" is unable to do so - by his own standard, which he has often enunciated here - just makes him a collossal loser."

"Truth" said:

"I know you are but what am I?"


"Truth" has jumped the shark.

Anonymous said...

the other guy did assault a police officer and his girlfriend as an adult, and was arrested for both.....So what does that do, now to the "Bayesian inference"?

Here's information about the case you're referring to:

http://www.halfsigma.com/2012/03/more-about-george-zimmerman.html

"Sounds like Zimmerman was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. He interfered with an undercover cop arresting his friend for a non-violent crime. He was not involved in a barfight, nor did he punch the cop or anything like that."

What this does to the Bayesian inference is suggest that Zimmerman does not have a tendency to violent aggression or crime.

JSM said...

"In fact, if I recall correctly, in previous discussions on this board, "Truth" implied that Christian and Newsom were out looking to buy drugs, and so must have somehow brought upon themselves the horrific things which were done to them."

Right.

And if Martin was wandering around in the neighborhood looking to meet his drug supplier (the gated 'hood being half non-White, after all, the chances are not bad) then, by Troot's logic, Martin, too, got what he had coming. I doubt that Troot would make that inference, though.

Truth said...

" "In fact, if I recall correctly,"

You don't, ever.

"Truth" implied that Christian and Newsom were out looking to buy drugs,"

Naaah, they were hanging around the hood to get their hair braided"

"and so must have somehow brought upon themselves the horrific things which were done to them."

Objection: leading the witness.

And if Martin was wandering around in the neighborhood looking to meet his drug supplier"

Objection: Lacks foundation

Mr. Anon said...

"Truth said...

""In fact, if I recall correctly,""

You don't, ever."

I stand corrected. I had you confused with another apologist for black misbehavior. I concede that you have not implied any such thing on this website..........

"""Truth" implied that Christian and Newsom were out looking to buy drugs,""

Naaah, they were hanging around the hood to get their hair braided""

......until now, that is.

Mr. Anon said...

"Truth said...

"...That "Truth" is unable to do so - by his own standard, which he has often enunciated here - just makes him a collossal loser."

I know you are but what am I?"

"Truth said...

"That "Truth" is unable to do so - by his own standard, which he has often enunciated here - just makes him a collossal loser."

Loser? Did somebody say loser?"

Two comments? Really? I must have struck a nerve.

And PeeWee Herman is certainly about your speed. Except that he's a lot smarter than you.

And more successful too, of course.

JSM said...

Truth said:


Truth" implied that Christian and Newsom were out looking to buy drugs,"

Naaah, they were hanging around the hood to get their hair braided"



"and so must have somehow brought upon themselves the horrific things which were done to them."

Objection: leading the witness.

And if Martin was wandering around in the neighborhood looking to meet his drug supplier"

Objection: Lacks foundation"

***


Oh, Truthy, you are losing this debate so baaaadly, you really should try to get a refund for that mail order law degree you bought.



If my speculation that Martin was looking to meet his drug supplier lacks foundation, then CERTAINLY your prior speculation that Channon and Newsome were looking for drugs lacks foundation.

Channon and Newsome in the 'hood because they took a wrong freeway exit and were trying to get the hell out, is AT LEAST as likely as your assertion they were looking for drugs or hair salons.

And YES, you did try to suggest that if Channon and Newsome were drug-seekers, then they got what they had coming.

So if "Saint" Martin was a drug-user / dealer, (which we know is a fact, since the school found him with marijuana residue) then by YOUR logic, HE got what he had coming.

Svigor said...

One guy "may have" assaulted a bus driver as a teen, the other guy did assault a police officer and his girlfriend as an adult, and was arrested for both...and he wanted to BE a police officer, and spent all of his time pretending to be one; and that's probably why he couldn't get into the academy.

From the Sentinel (via HS):
Zimmerman had been arrested in 2005 at a UCF-area bar and charged with resisting arrest without violence. He completed a pretrial-diversion program, meaning the case was officially dropped, and he wound up with no conviction on his record. It's not clear when, but police did check Zimmerman's criminal record and know about that arrest.

From Fox News:
In July 2005, Zimmerman, then 21, was at a bar near the University of Central Florida when a friend was arrested by state alcohol agents on suspicion of serving underage drinkers, according to an arrest report in the Sentinel. Zimmerman became profane and pushed away an agent who tried to escort him, the report said. Authorities said he was arrested after a short struggle. Charged with resisting arrest without violence, he avoided conviction by entering a pretrial-diversion program, something common for first-time offenders.

He was arrested, but the case was dropped.

As for assaulting his girlfriend, apparently George was the only one with any injuries in that incident. At least, that's what I've read so far. Was he tried or convicted?

I suspect justice would be best served if they forget the criminal charges and go right to a wrongful death lawsuit. Otherwise, you would end up with a hung jury on a manslaughter charge and Zimmerman's money, if he has any, would all go to his lawyer.

Wrongful death lawsuits are a lot harder to win than "wrongful injury" (I don't know the term) lawsuits; live cripples are apparently much more effective in court than corpses. Nobody depended on Trayvon for anything; it's not like his wife or kids are going to go to court claiming their futures are jeopardized by his death. Maybe the kids who bought pot from him could make a claim, though.

Anonymous said...

You are a box of rocks. Crack rocks. This country will be reclaimed by its true owners, the Natives. Prepare to be absorbed.