June 29, 2012

Feds considering declaring Arabs eligible for affirmative action

It's often argued that in the future, as white racism slowly loses influence, more people will be allowed to declare themselves white, just like, as everybody knows, the Irish weren't white back in the days of John L. Sullivan, but now they are.

In reality, however, the trend appears to be in the opposite direction. For example, the federal government is currently pondering whether to declare Arabs to be a minority for the purpose of receiving minority business development goodies.

The decision to enlist members of the Arab American business community as socially or economically disadvantaged has been postponed by a business development agency hearing the case.  
The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC), the largest grassroots civil rights organizations in the United States for Arab Americans, was expecting the U.S. Minority Business Development Agency (MBDA) to make a final verdict on whether Arab American business people can be categorized as a minority on Wednesday, but the decision was postponed.  
“The date has been moved up 30 days to late July,” said Abed Ayoub, Legislative Director of ADC, in an email to Al Arabiya. 
Groups that are eligible for MBDA services included Hasidic Jews, Asian Pacific Americans and Asian Indians who have eligible for assistance from the MBDA.
If ADC’s petition passes through, more grants and funding will be funneled to the Arab American business community.  
There will also be more contracts for the community that can be applied on the federal, local and state levels, Fay Beydoun, Executive Director of Arab American Chamber of Commerce, told Al Arabiya. ... 
ADC’s petition is full of details and descriptions on how the Arab community is as a distinct one whether in their skin color, food habits and music, and how the group has had faced discrimination ever since their migration to the U.S. in the 19th century. ...  
It brought up a case by Dr. H. el-Kouri, a Syrian physician in Birmingham, who defended Arabs against derogatory public comments made by congressman John L Burnet in 1907.

Indeed.

The federal government is requesting comments on this proposal here.

Here's Wikipedia's list of famous Arab-Americans, which looks like a list of random famous white people.

88 comments:

IHTG said...

Hasidic Jews

What, no love for Mitnagdim?

Anonymous said...

The Muslim population in America doubled since 9/11.... Sometimes I wonder about this country...

Simon in London said...

Hey, at least most of the beneficiaries of this discrimination will be white Christians! >:p

Since most Arab-Americans seem to be Lebanese Christians.

Average Joe said...

The Muslim population in America doubled since 9/11

Apparently the Hispanics weren't displacing us fast enough.

Anonymous said...

Just think what Steve Jobs could have achieved if he had not been discriminated against because of his Arab appearance.

And consider too what Jews of Arab ascent could achieve in this country without all the discrimination against them.

Londoner said...

In the great ledger of inter-ethnic American wrongs, does an anti-Arab remark by an American politician in 1907 really outweigh some, ah, slightly more spectacular acts committed in the opposite direction just a few years ago? Silly me, of course it does.

Anonymous said...

What if you're of Spanish descent but DNA testing reveals you have north African ancestry? Does that count?

Anonymous said...

Here's Wikipedia's list of famous Arab-Americans, which looks like a list of random famous white people.

Most of the people on that list are Lebanese Christians - probably descendants of the pilgrims in the great Lebanese Christian diaspora which occurred about a century ago, as the Ottoman Empire was disintegrating, and the Lebanese didn't want to be on the receiving end of the kinds of pogroms that the Azerbaijanis were unleashing on the Armenians.

Anyway, there are a ton of staggeringly talented Lebanese Christians now dispersed throughout the world whose ancestors were part of that wave of emigrants.

PS: If we here at iSteve are not being extra careful to distinguish between e.g. Arab CHRISTIAN immigrants and Arab MUSLIM immigrants, then we've all just failed HBD 101: Introduction to the Peoples of the World.

Anonymous said...

The ones on the list that are Lebanese are mostly Christian and not what we usually think of as "Arab" (Muslim).

Anonymous said...

Uhhh I hope the Feds know that Arabic speaking Christians are the rivals of Jews when it comes to capitalism. Carlos Slim and Nassim Taleb probably aren't who they have in mind, but technically they are Arab. 1,200+ years of paying the Jizya has a way of breeding a population for trade and money making.

-Hank the Plant

Anonymous said...

I don't see how affirmative action can be defended for anyone other than blacks and American Indians. Everyone else's ancestors chose to come to this country, presumably because it offered them a better life than what they had.

Anonymous said...

But that list (like Arab-Americans generally) is mostly composed of Levantine Christians.

It's also interesting to note that the way the list is drawn up is an artifact of US cultural assumptions. Arab Jews are mostly put only on the list of Jewish-Americans but not on the list of Arab-Americans, whereas for other countries (e.g. Britain) they are put on both lists.

rightsaidfred said...

how the group has had faced discrimination ever since their migration to the U.S. in the 19th century. ... a case...defended Arabs against derogatory public comments...

Next is an industry of discriminators. A Pacific islander moves to the U.S. and hires someone to discriminate against them. Money then flows. Win win.

beowulf said...

"Doug Flutie, (Lebanese father) NFL Player of the Buffalo Bills and San Diego Chargers."

Instead affirmative action, a better reform would be requiring teams to dropkick extra points and field goals.
http://youtu.be/P0Jsz-fSNd4

Anonymous said...

Wow, yet another corrupt mercantile minority gets a shot at government contracts and subsidized loans. I suppose nobody has figured out yet the reason why all the gas stations in America are owned by minorities who are more interested in selling you junk food, liquor, and condoms than providing excellent roadside service or clean rest rooms.

Anonymous said...

We are rapidly approaching the point where everyone in the country will be eligible for affirmative action except...me.

Anonymous said...

It literally gets worse with each passing day in this country.

DCThrowback said...

Racial draft, part 2, would definitely have to include Salma Hayek. What would the Mexicans have to give up to get her completely? Probably Carlos Slim and a future #1 (lottery protected).

SFG said...

The Hasids aren't as rich as their assimilated cousins...but how is this oppression? They can just ditch the black cloaks, shave the beards, and boom.

Anonymous said...

So latinos, blacks, asians, arabs, are eligible. When does it just become simpler to say "no whites."

Drawbacks said...

No Eddie Nash?

Anonymous said...

So whites are the legislated pariahs and thus it makes perfect rational sense to shun the 'white' status.
Curiously, this must be the only incident in history where a dominant group has voluntarily abased itself to become the stigmatized, discriminated group.
The only word for this is 'perverse'.

Chicago said...

Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.

Auntie Analogue said...

The Wikipedia list your post referenced, Mr. Sailer, contains a great proportion of individuals who are, were, or descended from Lebanese and other Middle Eastern Christian sects.

Nanonymous said...

Wikipedia's list of famous Arab-Americans

I like Frank Zappa on that list. "Half Arab father!".

Anonymous said...

@Steve Sailer

"It's often argued that in the future, as white racism slowly loses influence, more people will be allowed to declare themselves white, just like, as everybody knows, the Irish weren't white back in the days of John L. Sullivan, but now they are."

So an Irish immigrant back in 1880 had the same social status of someone who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower? Interesting. So please explain to me why, since you claim that non-Anglo white ethnicities were never discriminated against by the white Anglo majority, did pubs in Boston in the mid 1800s have signs at the door that read: "no dogs or Germans allowed"?

"Here's Wikipedia's list of famous Arab-Americans, which looks like a list of random famous white people."

The problem, I think, is that there is a discrepancy of what you regard as white and what American Anglos regard as white. To you, everyone who isn't black or clearly Asian is "white". Hell, you consider even Asian Indians to be "white"!(!!!!!!) Go to Omaha or Cincinnati and ask a crowd of random white people if Arabs are white. Then ask them if people from India are white. We both know what they will say.

But of course, you don't truly believe that Arabs and Indians are white: you just want to get as many people off the gravy train of affirmative action as possible. There is nothing wrong with that, as I as a libertarian also want affirmative action to end, but what I object to is your obvious intellectual dishonesty.

Anonymous said...

One more leech on the body of European white male earners and taxpayers.

- A Solid Citizen

Anonymous said...

The Muslim population in America doubled since 9/11.... Sometimes I wonder about this country..
that is a direct result of the so called war on terror-
the state department trades green cards for 'information' the information is usually useless, the green cards permanent. I can't get it into liberals (or necons) thick heads that it will effect our society. THey welcome it.

Anonymous said...

Wow--more votes for Barry.

I_Affe said...

I didn't read everything that was in the petition, but I did respond and cite:

http://www.aaiusa.org/pages/demographics/



Similar to the national average, about 60% of Arab American adults are in the labor force; with 5% unemployed. 73% percent of working Arab Americans are employed in managerial, professional, sales or administrative fields. Most Arab Americans work in the private sector (79%), while 12% are government employees. Median income for Arab American households is $59,012 compared to a median income of $52,029 for all households in the United States.

I also note that:
Median income for Arab American households in 2008 was $56,331 compared with $51,369 for all households in the United States. Mean individual income is 27% higher than the national average of $61,921. 13.7% of Arab Americans live below the poverty line, though the figure increases to over 28% for single mothers.

Anonymous said...

So an Irish immigrant back in 1880 had the same social status of someone who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower?

I don't think he's ever said any such thing.

Davis said...

Terrorism does work.

Londoner said...

Anonymous @ 9:13am - "why [...] did pubs in Boston in the mid 1800s have signs at the door that read: "no dogs or Germans allowed"?"

Who ran the pubs in Boston in the mid-1800s? I suspect it was mostly Hiberno-Americans, not Anglo-Americans.

In any case, I don't accept the premise that such signs existed. The infamous "NINA" (No Irish Need Apply) signs seem to be almost entirely an urban myth, so I'd like to see evidence for similar claims before I believe them.

http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm

John Derbyshire said...

So please explain to me why, since you claim that non-Anglo white ethnicities were never discriminated against by the white Anglo majority, did pubs in Boston in the mid 1800s have signs at the door that read: "no dogs or Germans allowed"?

This seems to be an urban legend of wide currency.

All Chinese people (including my wife) believe that there was a sign at the entrance to a park in the pre-1941 Shanghai International Concession reading NO DOGS OR CHINESE ALLOWED.

Back in the 1980s, writing a nonfiction book (never published) about China, I tried to track down some actual evidence of there having been such a sign.

In spite of holding a reader's card to the splendid library at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London (which has shelves and shelves full of merchant, missionary, and diplomatic memoirs going back to the Opium Wars), the best I could come up with was a rather dubious b&w photograph in a 1950s ChiCom propaganda text.

This kind of obvious ethnic grievance-mongering is too easy to make up and propagate. Without good-quality evidence for the truth of the claim, it should not be repeated.

Londoner said...

Also,

"intellectual dishonesty".

I'm glad someone flagged this phrased up recently. I'd been bothered by it for a while without being able to put my finger on why, but as another poster said, it's a redundant particularisation. There is no dishonesty that is not generated by the intellect. The phrase is a piece of empty verbiage designed to make the speaker sound intelligent (which it fails to do).

Also, I only ever see it used by left/liberal/pro-PC types. It's one of their stock insults. By their cries of "that's intellectually dishonest!" shall ye know them.

iselilja said...

Alexander Kazam wrote about this in National Review :

"the petition implies that Arab Americans suffer social discrimination due in part to their “distinctive food dishes,” such as hummus and baklava (both have been well integrated into the American diet), and their “unique music tradition” including “the use of percussion instruments not normally found in American culture.”

"we are informed that in some localities in the early 1900s Arabs were referred to as “Dago” and “Sheeny,” and on another we learn that three elevator operators in New York were awarded $30,000 in damages because a supervisor called them “camel jockeys.”

"the ADC concedes that Arab Americans are “relatively well-educated,” but on the very same page declares that Arab Americans are “undereducated.” They are undereducated, we learn, because Muslim prayer times and the month of fasting are “not respected” in American schools"

Whiskey said...

The whole point of Elite politics globally, in the West, is the alliance of:

Hereditary Elites plus
Blacks plus
Latinos plus
Muslims plus
Gays plus
White women.

Who is not on the list? Straight White guys.

The politics are basic spoils, take from Straight White guys and give to everyone else. That's it. OF COURSE the whole point is to define as many people as possible in the coalition of takers BUT like the tragedy of the commons, eventually you get a fight over money that is existential.

We've probably reached that point now.

WHY has this been so effective? Because White women HATE HATE HATE White beta males, basically. The compromises required to produce technological prowess, wealth, stability, and the good life run right against the desire for women to have lots of sexy, dominant, Alpha A-hole men.

Your basic pocket protector nerd, who creates teflon, or the Apple computer (Steve Wozniak not Jobs is who I'm talking here), or helps design a power plant, or is part of a team that runs a nuclear power plant, can't indulge in the Alpha dominance displays, the sexy Alpha-ness of a Charlie Sheen or John Mayer.

Evolutionary speaking, women tend to be in a fairly narrow band, smart but not too smart (a Heartiste commenter noted that nature does not play with the house money on baby-makers, that's for cheap sperm aka men). That has evolutionary results in cultural collapse, as the welfare state, plus contraception, plus mass media supported by consumer advertising has devalued the beta male provider and made White women assume that technology, safety, security just "happen" and will continue even as overt discrimination against the providers reaches a terminal phase.

There may be a lot of ruin in a nation, but that curve can be discontinuous suddenly. America's future is not Brazil, the Black and Hispanic underclass "needs" $200 sneakers and won't be happy living in favelas.

To understand this, Aaron Sorkin's "Broadcast News" tv series has a line in which Emily Mortimer's character says she'll take a White guy and instead of making him an arrogant prick make him sexy again. To which other characters wonder if White guys were ever sexy.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous:"So an Irish immigrant back in 1880 had the same social status of someone who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower?"

Of course not, but, then again, a Cockney who immigrated to the USA in 1880 would not have had the same social status as a Mayflower descendant either.

Anonymous:"Interesting. So please explain to me why, since you claim that non-Anglo white ethnicities were never discriminated against by the white Anglo majority, did pubs in Boston in the mid 1800s have signs at the door that read: "no dogs or Germans allowed"?"

Don't recall Steve ever claiming prejudice and discrimination did not exist for non-Anglos.Heck, some Protestant Anglos have been discriminated against (look up the history of the Quakers in Massachusetts). On the other hand, he has pointed out that those prejudices have been vastly overstated (cf the myth of the "No Irish Need Apply" sign).



Anonymous:"Go to Omaha or Cincinnati and ask a crowd of random white people if Arabs are white. "

I can do you one better. Go to Omaha and Cincinnati and ask people if they think that, say, Ralph Nader, John Sununu, and William Peter Blatty are White. Pretty sure that the vote would be in the affirmative.

Syon

rob said...

All an Arab has to do to eligible for affirmative action is publicly claim to be black/negro.

I'm all for affirmative action for arab americans: they should go to front of the line for repatriation.

stats said...

[2008] Mean individual income ... national average of $61,921.

Are you sure you have that right?

peterike said...

Affirmative Action no longer means redress for past discrimination (as if that were somehow possible across generations anyway). No, what it means now is paving the way for people of lower IQ, lower skills, lower social intelligence, less impulse control, limited imagination and little or no knowledge combined with a fat dollop of belief in utter falsehoods.

In which case, yeah, Arabs.

Anonymous said...

Did the "Swamp Yankees" ever become white?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swamp_Yankee

The term "Swamp Yankee" sounds rather demeaning.

Anonymous said...

Wow, at this rate the rest of southern Europeans will get included too, maybe the umbrella of "Latin" will be extended. Probably followed by Eastern Europeans, and then the Irish and Germans too since they were also discriminated against. Pretty soon only white males of British/Scandinavian/Dutch descent will be the only individuals ineligible for affirmative action...

Anonymous said...

It literally gets worse with each passing day in this country.
hate to sound pessimistic but i can't help but agree.

Joe Six-Pack said...

The US is trapped in the 'invade the World, invite the World' dogma...

Anonymous said...

"Wow, yet another corrupt mercantile minority gets a shot at government contracts and subsidized loans. I suppose nobody has figured out yet the reason why all the gas stations in America are owned by minorities who are more interested in selling you junk food, liquor, and condoms than providing excellent roadside service or clean rest rooms."

Immigrants are just more hard working than lazy Americans. I'm filled with admiration for their pluck, can-do spirit, and willingness to unbox Snickers bars, sell lottery tickets, and watch satellite TV for 16 hours a day. Just the kind of nation sustaining people we need.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous 10:17 PM

"I don't think he's ever said any such thing."

Yes, he did. I am not talking about socio-ECONOMIC status, but pure social status independent of affluence. It is foolish to assume that an Irish immigrant, even if he earned the same as an American of English descent who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower, received the same respect and consideration from the Society as Mayflower man. This is NOT debateable. Sorry.

nation of cowards said...

I'd be wary of submitting any constructive criticism to that MBDA.gov site--looks like your garden variety "smoke out the crimethinkers" op; Janet Napolitano might send a few BearCat G3s up your driveway.

Mundo En Llamas said...

"What would the Mexicans have to give up to get her completely? Probably Carlos Slim and a future #1"

Isn't Carlos Slim descended from Lebanese immigrants? Maybe that walrus mustache helps him pass for mestizo.

Brazilian said...

Brazil is full of Lebanese Christians... They pretty much own São Paulo.

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous Davis said...
Terrorism does work."

No shit. The chain of events leading to the election of Obama, accelerated illegal and Muslim immigration, and the rampant growth of diversity enhancing government were set in motion by 9/11. No 9/11, no second term for Bush. No second term, no housing bubble. No housing bubble, no financial meltdown in 2008. No war on terror. No Demo congress in 2006. No fucking Obamacare. No endless protections against profiling of nonwhites. No hate crime law. No trillions spent on bogus stimulus projects, many of which benefited foreign companies and illegal alien workers.

Anonymous said...

The Irish ain't White. ;-)

Rohan Swee said...

@Anonymous: So an Irish immigrant back in 1880 had the same social status of someone who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower? Interesting. So please explain to me why, since you claim that non-Anglo white ethnicities were never discriminated against by the white Anglo majority blah blah blah...

The problem, I think, is that there is a discrepancy of what you regard as white and what American Anglos regard as white.

Hey, aren't you that "Anonymous" from an earlier thread with a Carboniferous-dragonfly-sized bug up your butt about WASPS and white-osity? Still fighting the good fight against Thurston Howell III, I see.

Anonymous said...

On that Wikipedia list is actor Tony Shalhoub, of Christian descent, who played a Lebanese Shiite FBI agent in the ridiculously PC terrorism movie "The Siege." This reminded me of my 2 favorite roles of his: the Italian chef in "Big Night" and the Jewish movie producer in "Barton Fink"

ATBOTL said...

Conservatives can't oppose this because then they would have to discuss why Asians and (some)Jews are eligible for this stuff.

Has anyone else noticed that conservative pundits and GOP politicians have strenuously avoided talking about AA since about 1996.

Anonymous said...

"In the great ledger of inter-ethnic American wrongs, does an anti-Arab remark by an American politician in 1907 really outweigh some, ah, slightly more spectacular acts committed in the opposite direction just a few years ago? Silly me, of course it does." - 2001 was 11 years ago, quit harping on it.

ogunsiron said...

Anonymous said...
@Steve Sailer
... So please explain to me why...did pubs in Boston in the mid 1800s have signs at the door that read: "no dogs or Germans allowed"?
___________________________________

Whatever the reason they didn't like germans, I doubt that it was because they thought that they weren't white. The Anglos might have thought of the germans as uncouth, uncivilized peasants, but did they debate whether germans had souls or whether germans' nature was to be slaves ? I doubt it.
---

(!!!!!!) Go to Omaha or Cincinnati and ask a crowd of random white people if Arabs are white.
===
Rather ask them if they think Ralph Nader, Helen Thomas, Steve Jobs or Tony Rezko are white.Or ask about that Mitch Daniels guy.
Do you know any lebanese christians? I know one dude who's half lebanese and the guy is just an ordinary white guy. Nothing exotic about him whatsoever and he never talks about his leb side. Probably doen't care at all.
===
Then ask them if people from India are white. We both know what they will say.
===
Indians have not (yet?) assimilated into the white population so very few consider them white. The arab americans who came to america 100 years ago are, otoh, utterly assimilated. I'd say magnificently assimilated in fact.

Iberian said...

To anonymus of 9.13 AM

Depends on the Arab...

Steve Jobs was white before is Arab father was discovered;Fred Mercury was white until someone knows that is true name was Boulsara; If Assad changes is name to smith and goes to Montana, he will be white until...

The Anti-Gnostic said...

"Arab" is about as prolapsed a category as "Hispanic."

NOTA said...

There is a simple solution to this phenomenon: Pass a law making the set-asides a fixed pot of money, and similarly one making the number of AA admissions a fixed number. Magically, left-handed red-haired lesbians with one leg will find it hard to be added to the list of AA-eligible groups, because all the others will know that thus means less for them.

Well, a simpler solution would be to eliminate these racial/ethnic patronage schemes, but since those are part of the ruling class consensus, it's not likely to happen anytime soon.

TGGP said...

Trailer trash have lower social status. Therefore they aren't white. Do I have that correct?

NOTA said...

Anon:

Do you have a cite for the claim that theMuslim population in the US doubled since 9/11? The Pew Center data I could find didn't seem to support that at all,, though it also made a big point of how all numbers thrown around about nmber of Muslims in the US are pretty fuzzy.

Anonymous said...

So an Irish immigrant back in 1880 had the same social status of someone who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower?

Would a penniless WASP from the East End of London fresh of the boat in 1880 have the same social status as someone who's ancestors arrived with the Mayflower?

As a libertarian informal discrimination is completely outside your remit anyway. Its simply not something you are allowed to concern yourself with.

Anonymous said...

A lot of those Arabs mentioned are Lebanese Christians or similar. Clearly in smallish numbers their assimilation to the white majority hasnt been impossible in the past. You would probably find other examples in Europe as well.

Anonymous said...

I've seen signs that said Stop the War on Women. How about some that say Stop the War On White People.

Anonymous said...

"So an Irish immigrant back in 1880 had the same social status of someone who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower? Interesting. So please explain to me why, since you claim that non-Anglo white ethnicities were never discriminated against by the white Anglo majority, did pubs in Boston in the mid 1800s have signs at the door that read: "no dogs or Germans allowed"?

I am part Irish, but I have no problem with discriminating against the Irish or any other people. That's part of nature.Look out for your own.

Some question the existing of those signs, but if they did exist who cares.

Darren said...

Why not? The goverment bumps ahead in line every other newly arrived "minority" group who comes to the US ahead of white men whose ancestors came here hundreds of years ago and built up the US from nothing into the dominant superpower of the world.

patrick said...

There is a huge difference between Arabic-speaking Levantine Christians and, say, Yemenis. That's why I think the term Arab is a bit like the term Hispanic. It doesn't describe an actual ethnic group, just a collection of ethnic groups and subgroups with a common language.
Even though they speak Arabic, Lebanese Christians generally don't consider themselves Arab. Copts and Iraqi Christians never describe themselves as Arab.
A lot of Lebanese and Syrian Americans are descended from Christians who came here in the early 20th century. They have more in common with Greek and Italian Americans than with recently arrived Muslim immigrants from Yemen or Morocco.

Dennis Dale said...

Derogatory comments in 1907? I hang my head in shame.

Anonymous said...

Revilo P. Oliver wrote that countries like Syria, Marroco, Iraq are not really Arab nations.

More like a mass of mongrels, the only real pure Arabs are in Saudi Arabia.

Anonymous said...

Whiskey said...

The whole point of Elite politics globally, in the West, is the alliance of:

Hereditary Elites plus
Blacks plus
Latinos plus
Muslims plus
Gays plus
White women.

Who is not on the list?


The Scots-Irish?

NBC producer, dept. of Trayvon said...

So would say, John Sununu be considered a "white Arab"

Anonymous said...

Spencer Abraham was an enthusiastic border-nullification crusader in the WSJ mold.

I realize yes, there's probably a loosely comparable Arab-American counter-example (though certainly nobody equivalent) however, I can't remember one at the moment, frankly. The Sununus? James Abourezk?

cable memories said...

A funny moment I saw on Fox News about 10 years ago was Mitch Daniels being interviewed by Rita Cosby (the pudgy blonde who sounded like a Christmas ham was caught in her windpipe). Somewhere mid-way through the interview she inanely asked what his feelings were about being of Syrian descent, which prompted him to sorta look blankly into the camera for 5 seconds. I hope karma sees to it that she ends up some day co-hosting an overnight show with that Hoda woman.

Scott said...

"...can't indulge in the Alpha dominance displays, the sexy Alpha-ness of a Charlie Sheen or John Mayer."

- Alright, I can kinda see Sheen as engaging in Alpha Dominance displays, in so much as getting drunk and behaving the way drunken frat boys will do is at least relegated to the realm of masculinity, but John Mayer? This guy exudes feminism. He may talk some trash, but what are your lyin' eyes gonna believe?

Anonymous said...

It brought up a case by Dr. H. el-Kouri, a Syrian physician in Birmingham, who defended Arabs against derogatory public comments made by congressman John L Burnet in 1907.

By standards such as these, AA for German-Americans is an absolute moral necessity.

Anonymous said...

Lebanese and Syrian Christians in America are basically white ethnics with really good food and prettier women than the Greeks or Italians.

Beecher Asbury said...

It is foolish to assume that an Irish immigrant, even if he earned the same as an American of English descent who's ancestors arrived in the Mayflower, received the same respect and consideration from the Society as Mayflower man. This is NOT debateable. Sorry.

Should ANY person in America receive the same respect and consideration from society as a Mayflower man? I've never met an actual descendant of a Mayflower passenger. But if I did, assuming they were a normal law-abiding citizen, I'd show them a little more respect based upon that fact. If I ever ran across a person who was a 'Son/Daughter of the American Revolution', I'd do the same. I think we follow-on non-WASP types need to start showing more appreciation to those who built the place.

Perspective said...

"More like a mass of mongrels, the only real pure Arabs are in Saudi Arabia."

Some tribes in Saudi Arabia, such as the 'flower man' tribe are generally pure Arab due to their isolation. Though many Saudi Arabians have varying degrees of sub-saharan mixture because of their slave trade. North Africans are similar, though they tend to have a lot of Berber admixture in them. Marsh Arabs, in Iraq, are good examples of so called 'pure Arabs' http://homersykes.photoshelter.com/image/I00005KHm_T6xMT8

Many Jews from Iraq could also be considered pure Arab as well.

Anonymous said...

"This reminded me of my 2 favorite roles of his: the Italian chef in "Big Night" and the Jewish movie producer in "Barton Fink"

The Jewish movie producer in "Barton Fink" was played by Michael Lerner.

Anonymous said...

"There is a huge difference between Arabic-speaking Levantine Christians and, say, Yemenis. That's why I think the term Arab is a bit like the term Hispanic. It doesn't describe an actual ethnic group, just a collection of ethnic groups and subgroups with a common language.
Even though they speak Arabic, Lebanese Christians generally don't consider themselves Arab. Copts and Iraqi Christians never describe themselves as Arab.
A lot of Lebanese and Syrian Americans are descended from Christians who came here in the early 20th century. They have more in common with Greek and Italian Americans than with recently arrived Muslim immigrants from Yemen or Morocco."

As someone who lived in Dearborn, MI for 2 years, I can vouch for this. My guess is that the average anglo might barely accept a Northern Middle Eastern (i.e. Syrian or Lebanese) Arab Christian as "white", and even then they might not be thrilled about letting their daughter marry one. But they would definitely not do the same for the newer arrivals which tend to be more Southern, like Yemenis, Egyptians, etc. The Arabs are in fact almost as diverse as the Hispanics.

Anonymous said...

"More like a mass of mongrels, the only real pure Arabs are in Saudi Arabia."

Not really. The Saudis are a very mixed people. You can tell that they have substantial sub-Saharan admixture (from "modern" times, going no more than a few thousand years back), probably due to their age old practice of slavery.

Anonymous said...

Oh, please, my midwestern German/Scots-Irish (for real) father's extended family was delighted when he married my Christian Lebanese mother. They thought of her as an exotic white person with interesting cuisine and a more extroverted nature who would make family get togethers more fun.

Anonymous said...

r. But if I did, assuming they were a normal law-abiding citizen, I'd show them a little more respect based upon that fact. If I ever ran across a person who was a 'Son/Daughter of the American Revolution', I'd do the same. I think we follow-on non-WASP types need to start showing more appreciation to those who built the place.
thank you. but there is also a corollary - we (the descendants of such people) have special obligations to the nation and MORE should be EXPECTED of us.

ben tillman said...

Should ANY person in America receive the same respect and consideration from society as a Mayflower man? I've never met an actual descendant of a Mayflower passenger.

I doubt it. The Mayflower passengers have tens of millions of descendants.

Anonymous said...

The government seems to have blocked visitors coming from your website to comment. I can't get through.

patrick said...

"As someone who lived in Dearborn, MI for 2 years, I can vouch for this. My guess is that the average anglo might barely accept a Northern Middle Eastern (i.e. Syrian or Lebanese) Arab Christian as "white", and even then they might not be thrilled about letting their daughter marry one. But they would definitely not do the same for the newer arrivals which tend to be more Southern, like Yemenis, Egyptians, etc. The Arabs are in fact almost as diverse as the Hispanics."

Agree. But the attitude you describe toward Christian Arabs is not that different than the attitude toward Italian-Americans circa 1970s (when my Sicilian-descended father and WASP mother got married). And Lebanese and Syrian Christians in America are an pretty successful bunch, even more so than Italians or Greeks; they've produced way more than their share of governors, senators, CEOS, generals etc. But there are huge differences between a Lebanese or Syrian Christian and a Yemeni or Egyptian, just like there are huge differences between a Cuban-American of Spanish descent and a Mixtec from Oaxaca.

Mau Mao said...

The group not on Evil Neocon's (whiskey's old screen name) list of elites is the group that provides 60% of Dem donations and 40% of GOP donations while comprising only 3% of the population.