November 1, 2012

"Asian-Americans in the Admissions Argument "

From the NYT
Asian-Americans in the Admissions Argument 
By ETHAN BRONNER 
A COLLEGE education aims to guide students through unfamiliar territory — Arabic, Dante, organic chemistry — so what was once alien comes to feel a lot less so. But sometimes an issue starts so close to home that the educational goal is the inverse: to take what students think of as familiar and place it in a new and surprising light.

I.e., get propagandized into parroting dominant views on campus.
It’s mostly the latter process that has been taking place every Tuesday and Thursday this semester in Room 303 of the Parlin Building, just below the iconic 300-foot tower of the University of Texas, Austin. On this graceful campus of 50,000 students from diverse ethnic backgrounds, three dozen undergraduates, many of them Asian-American, are examining Asian-American political identity in a course on that subject. 
Ethnic politics is a touchy topic under any circumstances, but the issue here has a sharper edge as the United States Supreme Court examines whether the University of Texas is violating the Constitution by including race and ethnicity in admissions decisions. On Oct. 10, it heard oral arguments in Fisher v. University of Texas, in which Abigail Fisher, a white Texan, says she was denied admission to the flagship campus while less qualified Latinos and African-Americans were allowed in. 
In his presentation of some of the Supreme Court legal briefs to the political identity class, Khai Pham, a junior who is Vietnamese, said he didn’t like the use of race in college admissions — and nobody other than the instructor, Lesley Varghese, disagreed with him. Said one classmate: “You can’t make up for what went wrong in the past by helping people today.” Another added: “Maybe affirmative action was necessary at one point in time, but it is outdated today and we need a new formula.” And Anna Akhtar, a sophomore who is half Pakistani, said of her high school classmates: “I had white friends who were struggling and minority friends who were doing just fine.”

One secret is that most high school seniors hate, hate, hate affirmative action. When they get to college, they are still sore about their high school friends who didn't get in due to racial preferences. But, over time, they develop new friends at the college, all of whom did get in, unlike those losers they left behind. Plus, the faculty is there with a lot of insidious arguments about why what seems like sheer racial unfairness is actually, when you stop thinking about it, racial justice! (As long as you look at everything from the appropriate who-whom perspective.)
Ms. Varghese, an Indian-American lawyer and activist, said later that she hoped that what seemed obvious to those students now — that using race in admissions caused resentment, was unfair and should be abandoned — would yield to a deeper appreciation of a complex issue later in the semester.

Wow, an ethnic activist wants to indoctrinate young co-ethnics in the value of her job!
Given the growing skepticism toward affirmative action in American society and at the Supreme Court itself (Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr.: “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race”), its use in university admissions seems to be facing a challenging future. 
Asian-Americans, who make up 5 percent of the population, are the fastest growing racial group, with three-quarters of adults born abroad, according to the Pew Research Center. And they are tangled up in the affirmative action issue in complicated ways. 
On the one hand, some ambitious and disciplined students from India, South Korea and China see themselves as victims of race-conscious admissions, their numbers kept artificially low to keep a more demographically balanced campus. A lawsuit pending against Princeton alleges discrimination on grounds that applicants from other ethnic or racial groups were admitted with lesser credentials. The Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights also received complaints last year against Princeton and, since withdrawn, Harvard. 
On the other hand, Filipinos, Cambodians, Pacific Islanders and other Asian-Americans continue to benefit from policies that take ethnicity into account. 
Polls show Asian-Americans divided fairly evenly on the use of affirmative action. But its opponents appear to be growing more vocal, and they have joined the debate in a bigger way than in the past. In briefs sent to the justices, most of the established Asian-American groups, like the Asian American Legal Defense Fund, support diversity as a goal in college admissions. But a number of others take the side of Ms. Fisher and argue that colleges have increased the numbers of blacks and Hispanics in a way that is wrong and unconstitutional. 
“Admission to the nation’s top universities and colleges is a zero-sum proposition,” asserts the brief from the 80-20 National Asian American Educational Foundation, one of the groups opposed to affirmative action. “As aspiring applicants capable of graduating from these institutions outnumber available seats, the utilization of race as a ‘plus factor’ for some inexorably applies race as a ‘minus factor’ against those on the other side of the equation. Particularly hard-hit are Asian-American students, who demonstrate academic excellence at disproportionately high rates but often find the value of their work discounted on account of either their race, or nebulous criteria alluding to it.” 
Ms. Fisher asserts that the policy that led to the rejection of her application to the Austin campus hurts not only white applicants but Asian-Americans.
... Currently, the university’s enrollment is half non-Hispanic white, fairly close to the state demographic of 45 percent. It lags in Hispanic representation (18 percent enrolled versus 38 percent statewide) and African-American (4 percent versus 12 percent statewide). As for Asian-Americans, it would be hard to argue they are underrepresented. They make up 4 percent of the state population, and 16 percent of the university’s student body. 
But the numbers don’t tell the whole story. The university does not reveal how many applicants in each group it rejects. 
For Asian-Americans across the country, the Fisher case is a source of ambivalence. While most people think of blacks and Latinos when they think of victims of past discrimination, Asian immigrants, who first came to build railways in the late 19th century, were also mistreated. Most famously, Japanese-Americans were interned during World War II for fear of treachery. 
To some in Texas, the state with the third largest Asian-American population, after California and New York, the mistreatment does not feel like ancient history. Anti-miscegenation laws, in effect here until 1967, and separate-but-equal laws applied to all nonwhites. 
“We were the first illegal immigrants and had the first blighted neighborhoods,” said Irwin A. Tang, co-author and editor of the book “Asian Texans: Our Histories and Lives.” A Dallas business directory of 1894 declared on its cover, “Send Chinese laundries back to China!” 
As Mr. Tang writes of the first half of the 20th century, “Asian Texans lived in a distinct racial-caste system structured by racist laws; social hierarchy; segregation of residence, sexual relations and marriage; and the separation of Asian family members from each other.” So the idea of helping them overcome past discrimination in the same way as Latinos and blacks has held appeal for some, especially those who say the suffering has gone unacknowledged. 
Asians have often been grouped under the rubric of “model minority,” meaning they make few political demands and keep their head down. “

No, it means they don't mug old ladies in-between burning down large sections of the city.
Asian-Americans are brought up not to upset the apple cart,” noted Martha Jee Wong, a retired Republican state legislator from Houston. “Our parents taught us that whatever we do, we should honor our family name. So you find ways to make top grades and not rock the boat.” 
Ms. Varghese, who is director of the Austin Asian American Resource Center, to open next year, says it took many decades for Asian-Americans of different backgrounds to feel any sense of common identity. “My parents are Catholics from Kerala in southern India,” she said. “My father doesn’t even speak Hindi. For most of his life he barely considered himself Indian, let alone Asian.”

Indeed.
The idea of a pan-Asian identity in this country, scholars say, was partly a result of anti-Asian violence, especially against one subgroup when another was intended. Thirty years ago in Detroit, a Chinese-American named Vincent Chin was beaten to death by a pair of autoworkers angry at competition from Toyota.

Vincent Chin! Who can forget him? Who can remember the names of all thosee white guys Omart Thornton killed two years ago in the name of fighting racism?
They thought he was Japanese. Seven years later, Jim Loo, also Chinese, was killed in North Carolina by men who had lost a brother in the Vietnam War and thought he was Vietnamese. In the wake of Sept. 11, Sikhs from India have been targeted in the belief they are Muslims.
“All of this created a consciousness that xenophobia targets you, that the whole model-minority stereotype attached to many Asians doesn’t protect you,” Ms. Varghese said. “When it comes down to who is American and who is the enemy, we are often lumped in with the enemy. As hate crimes go down nationally, we are the only group for whom they go up.”

Uh, I'd point to the Reagan Administration extending contracting benefits to South Asian buisnessmen in 1982 as the moment when a fairly large East Asian group was artificially united with a smaller but more articulate South Asian group who were better at playing the ethnic resentment game.
... Within a couple of decades, the academic success of many Asian-Americans resulted in elite schools quietly keeping their numbers from climbing too high. (The mean SAT score of Asian-Americans is now 63 points higher than that of whites.) 
“If you look at the Ivy League, you will find that Asian-Americans never get to 20 percent of the class,” said Daniel Golden, author of “The Price of Admission” and editor at large for Bloomberg News. “The schools semiconsciously say to themselves, ‘We can’t have all Asians.’ ” Mr. Golden says it is helpful to think of Asians as the new Jews because some rules of college admissions, like geographic diversity, were originally aimed at preventing the number of Jews from growing too high. 
Commenting on similar efforts involving Asian applicants, Rod Bugarin, a former admissions officer at Wesleyan, Brown and Columbia, said: “The bar is different for every group. Anyone who works in the industry knows that.”
But like most admissions professionals, Mr. Bugarin, of Filipino heritage, said he was worried that the Supreme Court might listen to those who wish to remove race and ethnicity entirely from the process. 
“As someone who is Asian, I can say that Asians have really benefited from affirmative action,” he said. “When schools were heavily white, Asians were not in the applicant pool. But now there is a new generation of immigrants applying, especially from places like India and China, and that is putting even more pressure on Asian-Americans trying to get into top schools. If they knocked out our ability to use affirmative action, certain Asian groups would benefit far more than others.” 
More important, some argue, Asian-Americans themselves benefit from the campus diversity the system produces. Schools where admission is purely through a test, like the elite public New York City high school Stuyvesant, often have large percentages of Asian-Americans. The University of California at Berkeley and Los Angeles are more than half Asian. That doesn’t help them integrate effectively, to pierce what some call the bamboo ceiling in the corporate and political worlds. 
“I fear that if affirmative action is overthrown by the Supreme Court, our elite campuses will look like U.C.L.A. and Berkeley,” Mr. Burgarin said. “That wouldn’t be good for Asians or for anyone else.” 

It's fascinating how little college development there has been over the last century. Brandeis, for example, is a good faith effort by liberal Jews to build a Jewish university on the model of all the various kinds of Christian but not exclusive universities. But as quotas on Jews fell at the older schools, Jewish donors lost interest in creating more Brandeises. Asian Americans have shown negligible interest in starting up their own Brandeises.

Even without starting a college de novo, it's not impossible to do a massive rehab. For example, public George Mason outside of Washington, DC and private Chapman in Orange County, CA were lackluster colleges taken over by ambitious conservatives who realized that a lot of money could be raised from rich businessmen by offering quality education that was less intended to alienate the donors' children from their fathers than at most colleges. They've made a lot of progress in a couple of decades, but it does take decades.

But, Asian-Americans don't appear interested in following either the Brandeis or Chapman institution-building paths.

126 comments:

Anonymous said...

chapman is one of few colleges in Orange County that is mainly white. Irvine heavily asian and fullerton over 30 percent hispanic.

Anonymous said...

I know it's probably "prole," but did anyone here ever watch King of the Hill?

HANK: Stop feeling sorry for yourself and start thinking about Connie. You want her growing up in the back of an El Camino?

KAHN: What choice do I have? We flee horrible dictatorship, learn a new language, work hard and study hard. And our reward for doing everything right is to be told "Go to hell. You work too hard. You study too hard!!"

Anonymous said...

I really don't like it when ethnicities, whom were only even allowed to settle on US territory post 1965 (earlier generations of Americans were wise enough to keep them out), have the sheer unmitigated gall to pontificate and lecture founding stock Americans on what they can do and can't do.
I'm sorry, but these are people who foisted themselves in after all the dirty work of building the Republic, all the blood, sweat and tears were shed by the forefathers of a different people - a people the interlopers, the johnny-come-latelys wish to dictate to.
Think about it - all they is cash-in on the hard work someone else did.
A sane people would regard the whines of these interlopers with the same disdain and disgust as they would regard a dog-fart.



"Chris Christie has a big, fat ass".

peterike said...

However the long and tangled web of affirmative action and racial grievance mongering unravels going forward, one thing is guaranteed: whitey will continue to be screwed.

Anonymous said...

There is zero justification for giving affirmative action to the descendants of voluntary immigrants. Southern descended blacks (i.e. not from the Caribbean or Africa) and American Indians arguably have a claim to preferences due to their history.

DaveinHackensack said...

"Asian-Americans are brought up not to upset the apple cart,” noted Martha Jee Wong, a retired Republican state legislator from Houston. “Our parents taught us that whatever we do, we should honor our family name..."

It's got to take some of the pressure off when your family name is "Wong". Like "Smith", there are simply too many people with that name for one person to sully it.

Anonymous said...

Sounds to me like a lot of historical revisionism is going on here. Asians are trying to re-write American history to be seen as "victims", when the great majority are actaully a recent immigrant group. I guess they see it working for blacks and others, so they figure, what the hell, let's jump on the bandwagon too.

Anthony said...

Asian-Americans don't appear interested in following either the Brandeis or Chapman institution-building paths.

Why should they be, when they can take over high-quality public universities for much cheaper by challenging affirmative action? Prop 209 was cheaper than starting a college, and at least as effective. Plus the prestige is already there when you take over Berkeley.

anonthistime said...

“As someone who is Asian, I can say that Asians have really benefited from affirmative action.”

Hey, this guy's really top notch. You can see why Brown and Columbia would be after him for their admissions offices. As someone who was in the U.S. Navy, I can say that Filipinas have really benefited from affirmative naval, er, outreach.

as said...

But, Asian-Americans don't appear interested in following either the Brandeis or Chapman institution-building paths.

Great point. We're terrible at institution building.

FOB Indians, if they believe in God, can build a temple. But that's it. I don't think Indian Americans can even do that.

And there aren't any private day schools or anything.

Indian colleges look pretty bad, even if they have rich alums. They never have good facilities.








Anonymous said...

"But, Asian-Americans don't appear interested in following either the Brandeis or Chapman institution-building paths." - As the article notes, they want to get into white social networks to get to the top. Creating an asian college isn't going to help them get in those.

"Anti-miscegenation laws" - It must have been so terrible.

Yan Shen said...

I've been saying for years now that anti-Asian racism is rampant in the United States and tolerated in a way that it isn't when it comes to other ethnic groups.

We call bashing blacks and Hispanics racism and bashing Jews anti-Semitism. Bashing Asian Americans, we call humor.

To me, the most alarming thing is that I've even witnessed white liberals defending Asian bashing, as if somehow you're the one with the problem if you complain about it. This worries me greatly, because I was under the impression that most white liberals considered themselves to be paragons of mortal virtue.

I'm glad that the NYT is casting light not only on the historical prejudices that Asian Americans faced in this country, but also on their modern plight. We need to move beyond a simple black/white narrative with respect to our racial discourse in this country.

DaveinHackensack said...

"I know it's probably "prole," but did anyone here ever watch King of the Hill?"

You must be new here. It's not "prole", and probably everyone here as watched it. Its creator, Mike Judge, has been the subject of a number of posts on this blog.

Hacienda said...

"I've been saying for years now that anti-Asian racism is rampant in the United States and tolerated in a way that it isn't when it comes to other ethnic groups."

Maybe. I live in Southern California. The last time I was openly called by a derogatory slur was 1994? Long time ago. Something changed with whites. Most notably the demographic shifts on planet Earth. Whites just can't go around and afford to insult non-whites like they once could. I think you complain too much and still have the dependency mind. Tao Te Ching submissiveness, etc. Nothing wrong with TTC, it's just that its corruptible, like every great philosophy.

Stop crying so much. I like you best when you go hard on admissions unfairness. That's real discrimination. But a generalized, "it's okay to discriminate against Asians?" Weak.

Amused said...

And a final note on affirmative action. From Ross Douthat of the NYT:

" Last year, two Princeton sociologists, Thomas Espenshade and Alexandria Walton Radford, published a book-length study of admissions and affirmative action at eight highly selective colleges and universities. Unsurprisingly, they found that the admissions process seemed to favor black and Hispanic applicants, while whites and Asians needed higher grades and SAT scores to get in. But what was striking, as Russell K. Nieli pointed out last week on the conservative Web site Minding the Campus, was which whites were most disadvantaged by the process: the downscale, the rural and the working-class.

This was particularly pronounced among the private colleges in the study. For minority applicants, the lower a family’s socioeconomic position, the more likely the student was to be admitted. For whites, though, it was the reverse. An upper-middle-class white applicant was three times more likely to be admitted than a lower-class white with similar qualifications.

This may be a money-saving tactic. In a footnote, Espenshade and Radford suggest that these institutions, conscious of their mandate to be multiethnic, may reserve their financial aid dollars “for students who will help them look good on their numbers of minority students,” leaving little room to admit financially strapped whites.

But cultural biases seem to be at work as well. Nieli highlights one of the study’s more remarkable findings: while most extracurricular activities increase your odds of admission to an elite school, holding a leadership role or winning awards in organizations like high school R.O.T.C., 4-H clubs and Future Farmers of America actually works against your chances. Consciously or unconsciously, the gatekeepers of elite education seem to incline against candidates who seem too stereotypically rural or right-wing or “Red America.”

This provides statistical confirmation for what alumni of highly selective universities already know. The most underrepresented groups on elite campuses often aren’t racial minorities; they’re working-class whites (and white Christians in particular) from conservative states and regions. Inevitably, the same underrepresentation persists in the elite professional ranks these campuses feed into: in law and philanthropy, finance and academia, the media and the arts."


So the AA against whites is not based as much on merit but on fear and cultural exclusion. Asians are a reliable left-wing voting block, which makes them more attractive.

The Ivy League has always excluded certain groups for various reasons. The white working class has never been included, neither before or after the 1960s.

There's a lot more to say, for example if you were to go by IQ scores alone, 6/7ths of all whites with an IQ over 130 would be non-Jewish. That ratio increases even more if you go to 120.(The average Harvard student is at around 130 in IQ).

Is this a huge disaster? Well, the research on IQ and earnings, when controlling for other factors, is pretty clear. No, not really. Education doesn't matter that much for future earnings. A bright white WASP who has conservative 'cultural markers' won't get into Harvard, and will have a harder time than an Asian doing so, but he will do very well at a good public university in his state, despite having very high SAT scores and then graduate with straight A:s, be a honor student and perhaps go to the Ivy League in grad school(many native-born Asians don't go to grad school despite coming from well off families. Wonder why...).

Still, the exclusion from the Ivy League is important, because it cuts you off from cultural influence. Even if you earn a lot. And the white working class vote reliably Republican, which is why they must be kept out. They also hold thoughts that can be considered heresy or worse on issues like immigration and affirmative action. Another huge disaster for those who want to keep them out.

Amused said...

"We call bashing blacks and Hispanics racism and bashing Jews anti-Semitism. Bashing Asian Americans, we call humor."

And interesting that you left out white Americans.

So don't expect symapthy when you don't think all people deserve the same treatment.

Whatever said...

"Sounds to me like a lot of historical revisionism is going on here. Asians are trying to re-write American history to be seen as "victims", when the great majority are actaully a recent immigrant group. I guess they see it working for blacks and others, so they figure, what the hell, let's jump on the bandwagon too."

Yup. But that is how politics is played in modern America.

Who said it was the right thing, to not do it would be foolish.

In a sense, by starting to do it more they are assimilating more too. Who said assimilation was only about the traits we like among ourselves?

Still, I've read a lot of news reports about Chinese immigrants. Most of them are motivated by fear from their own nation, not necessarily coming to the West because they inherently like it here.

The NYT has a good piece on this on it's front page(at least as of now). They pretty clearly state that they moved to Canada/Australia/USA because they are fearful for what will happen in China. The social mix isn't healthy, corruption isn't worse but it's much more exposed than it used to be, building resentment. Health dangers and so on.

If the horse manure hits the rotating blades that ventilate an area of discretion, then I have a hard time seeing many of them staying here, given how flickle their initial committment is and how weak their roots are.

Easy come, easy go.

Tony said...

"Chris Christie has a big, fat ass".

Would you like him better if he had a nice ass?

Anonymous said...


"It's fascinating how little college development there has been over the last century. Brandeis, for example, is a good faith effort by liberal Jews to build a Jewish university on the model of all the various kinds of Christian but not exclusive universities. But as quotas on Jews fell at the older schools, Jewish donors lost interest in creating more Brandeises. Asian Americans have shown negligible interest in starting up their own Brandeises."

What the..?

Hello? Steve? Is that you?

Come on. Seriously.

Patrick Henry College

New Saint Andrews

Liberty University Law School

Are you kidding me?

Go look up stats on the SAT scores for the students in the very very new Patrick Henry College, or New Saint Andrews. And check out the Bar Exam pass rates from Liberty University. Right up there with The University of Virginia Law School.

Oh, that's right, just a bunch of white protestants starting more colleges. Ho hum, just like they have been doing for hundreds of years.

And why?

Because the elites keep shutting out people who can compete with them. They want you to join them or serve them instead.

Anonymous said...

I've been saying for years now that anti-Asian racism is rampant in the United States and tolerated in a way that it isn't when it comes to other ethnic groups.

On the other hand, Asians just love foreigners coming into their countries and demanding access to the higher echelons of their hierarchies. There are so many opportunities for foreigners in Asian countries.

Anonymous said...

The problem with Europeans is that they think they can teach the concept of reciprocity to other ethnic groups.

They can't.

I give you Yan Shen. Always asking what Euro-Americans can do for him and not what he can do for Euro-Americans.

I say Euro-Americans, because the others have nothing to offer and certainly nothing he wants.

Gilbert Ratchet said...

As they say on Fark, SO MUCH THIS!!!

"One secret is that most high school seniors hate, hate, hate affirmative action. When they get to college, they are still sore about their high school friends who didn't get in due to racial preferences. But, over time, they develop new friends at the college, all of whom did get in, unlike those losers they left behind. Plus, the faculty is there with a lot of insidious arguments about why what seems like sheer racial unfairness is actually, when you stop thinking about it, racial justice! (As long as you look at everything from the appropriate who-whom perspective.)"

Anonymous said...

"On the other hand, Asians just love foreigners coming into their countries and demanding access to the higher echelons of their hierarchies. There are so many opportunities for foreigners in Asian countries."

1) white people "letting in" other races into their countries says more about how far white people are willing to go to maintain their middle class lifestyle than it does about fairness. Mexicans do the manual labor while Asians do the engineering work so white people can specialize in liberal art degrees.

2) Asian countries aren't making empires that wreck other countries leaving them no place to go. What do we do?

We dump our drug war on Mexico, we create turmoil in the middle east to steal their oil, and we force worthless treasuries onto Asian countries.

How bout we quit messing up the world, and then he can have our country back!

as said...

But, Asian-Americans don't appear interested in following either the Brandeis or Chapman institution-building paths.

I guess it's the welfare mentality.
Someone else can do the hard work (of institution building).

Anonymous said...

"And check out the Bar Exam pass rates from Liberty University. Right up there with The University of Virginia Law School."

Uh,check out the July 2011 pass rates as reported by the Virginia Bar examiners:

Washington and Lee University 95.83% (best in state)

University of Virginia
90.21%

Regent University
70.49%

Liberty University
47.83% (worst of any law school in state)

Gene Berman said...

The invasion of Texas by Chinese of dubious origin and intentions and of complete inscrutibility is of long history.

A Chinese man was found dead outside of (but within its legal limits) Pecos, Texas. He carried no identification, had no bag or pack. Just a wallet containing $40
and a revolver holstered on his hip.

What might have been a mystery--and a time-consuming one at that--was simplicity itself for the justice system serving the area.
The Chinaman, having proved unresponsive to all questioning, was brought to trial for "carrying a gun within city limits"--against which there was a valid law. He didn't plead "guilty" but he didn't plead "not guilty," either.
One of the finest legal minds of ther time, ,he justly-famed Judge Roy Bean, determined that the illegal gun should be confiscated and the guilty perp fined $40.

Gene berman said...

Japanese settlers have been in California for quite awhile--a lot longer than the "Okies," many of whom went there in the '30s during the Great Depression.

In Gardena, CA (a town wholly enclosed within Los Angeles), the local Mistsubishi Bank, sporting the well-known "Three Diamonds,"
has a keystone engraved "1870."

Anonymous said...

"anti-Asian racism is rampant in the United States"...

Says Yan-Shen, who cites no sources.

Hey, that's good enough for me. If Yan-Shen says something is so, it must be so....

To Hacienda:

I don't believe it was the demographic shifts on the planet earth. Whites have always been a rather small global minority. It was the SHIFT WITHIN WHAT WERE TRADITIONALLY white countries that may have caused what you are claiming.

Anonymous said...

@Yan Shen: I've been saying for years now that anti-Asian racism is rampant in the United States and tolerated in a way that it isn't when it comes to other ethnic groups.

Yet your parents still chose to move here.

We call bashing blacks and Hispanics racism and bashing Jews anti-Semitism. Bashing Asian Americans, we call humor.

What does Yan Shen call bashing whites? Wait that's right Yan Shen fails to even notice that whites are truly the group that is "bashed" with absolute impunity in the US, and this certainly is not a subject that concerns him at all.

Assistant Village Idiot said...

"...what seemed obvious to those students now — that using race in admissions caused resentment, was unfair and should be abandoned — would yield to a deeper appreciation of a complex issue later in the semester."

Deeper, more complex. I think Pontius Pilate said that,

Auntie Analogue said...


"[G]et propagandized into parroting dominant views on campus."

Don't look now, Mr. Sailer, but this radical-Stalinist indoctrination begins the first time parents park their kids in front of a telecast of 'Sesame Street'; and it continues through pre-school, Kindergarten, grade school, and high school: colleges merely polish the diamonds-in-the-rough that come to them from all the earlier grades of Radical-Stalinist Prep in which whites and Christians are demonized and the non-white Other is lionized. Moreover, this indoctrination is also a central theme of pop music and TV programming (the American radical Left did what all their revolutionary idols did first - they took over the radio station!). Fact is, children are marinated from birth in the Multi-Culti Diversity White-People-&-Christians-Are-Racist-Brutes Fairytale stew.

Now where can I find a decent propane salesman?

Anonymous said...

"Anna Akhtar, a sophomore who is half Pakistani"

LOL

"So you find ways to make top grades and not rock the boat."

unintended irony?

"My father doesn’t even speak Hindi. For most of his life he barely considered himself Indian, let alone Asian."

veritably a man from earth and beyond who is now a proud american.
U-S-A U-S-A

Anonymous said...

I am more then a little bit perplexed by this term "Asian". When I was young, we used to call "Asians" (there wasn't very many of them at all) "Orientals". When and how did this geographical term "Asian" come into vogue to describe them? And what is "offensive" about it? I wouldn't feel slighted if called an "Occidental".
In the United Kingdom, the term "Asian" is used to mean brown-skinned people from the Indian sub-continent. These include Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims etc. They vary widely in background, culture, I.Q. and even in appearance. In the USA, "Asian" usually is taken to mean a person from Japan, Korea, China, etc. These two groups, brown and yellows, have nothing in common and are totally un-alike. Also a large part of Asia is Russian territory. In fact over 75% of Russian land is actually in Asia. Technically any Russian from east of the Urals is an "Asian" too. But Russians are white.

Hacienda said...


"I don't believe it was the demographic shifts on the planet earth. Whites have always been a rather small global minority. It was the SHIFT WITHIN WHAT WERE TRADITIONALLY white countries that may have caused what you are claiming."

I guess your caps vs my non-caps wins the argument for you.

Whites are now 12% of world, at peak whites were 30%. THAT'S GOT TO HAVE HAD A BIG INFLUENCE!

Anonymous said...

"Asians have often been grouped under the rubric of “model minority,” meaning they make few political demands and keep their head down.“

"No, it means they don't mug old ladies in-between burning down large sections of the city."

-------

Both statements are correct. Lots of whites wish NAMs would act more like Asians and cause less trouble with stuff like welfare and street crime.
But the 'model minority' thing isn't just about crime or lack thereof among Asians.
After all, Jews aren't known for street crime, but they haven't been called the 'model minority'. Why not? They've been aggressive, combative, radical, subversive, and challenging of the social order. And even before the explosion of black crime, whites often disdained the 'uppity' attitude of blacks.

The concept of 'model minority' has something to do with the attitude among white conservatives that minorities should conform, go along, and more or less submit to the ruling majority. Muhammad Ali was not a street thug, but he was no model minority ideal because he made trouble.

BAsians got stuck with MM label not because whites so much insisted on it but because Asian culture itself insists on 'model behavior'. In Asia, students are supposed to act like model students. Kids are supposed to act like model kids. Inferiors are supposed to act like model inferiors to superiors.
White influence only goes so far. After all, whites also pushed MM on the blacks, aka 'credit to his race'. So, if a black man or woman acted kindly and dignified, he or she was said to be a 'credit to his or her race'. In other words, non-whites are naturally deficient in some way and must prove that they are worthy of being upright members of society. And because of white fear of blacks, such social ideal was pushed more on blacks than on Asians. But blacks resisted the Credit Minority BS. Some tried, but most figured it was some Uncle Tom jive. Blacks naturally felt they could whup the white boy's ass and didn't have to prove nothing to a bunch of punkass white boys. So, CM--credit minority--ideal didn't go so far. But the MM thing has stuck with Asians because Asians are naturally less aggressive and more docile than other races. Evolution made them that way. They are like that in Asia, indeed more in Asia. Just look at SHALL WE DANCE.

The fact that MM is not really a compliment(from whites) is that whites don't much care for MM Asians. Whites may appreciate that MM Asians don't commit crime, but whites also look down those Asians as drones, robots, nerds, wimps, dorks, teachers' pets, etc. Even whites who fear black crime respect black prowess in badassery. With fear comes respect.
But with condescension comes contempt, and there is an element of condescension in the MM ideal. Whites look down on Asian sheep, their emotions ranging from contempt to amusement.

To be sure, there is an element of fear among whites in that Asians seem to making the academic and social climb--just like women are doing over men in colleges and jobs.
The 'losers' in highschools are becoming the winners in college.
This is when the MM concept among whites sort of breaks down. If Asians were truly MM, they would do almost as good as whites or as good as whites and fit in. But if Asians do much better than whites, they are a super minority, not a model minority. The favored implication of MM is that such a minority will always remain subservient to the majority.
In contrast, Jews became a super minority, overtaking the power economically, politically, scientifically, legally, and academically from white goyim, especially the once mighty wasps.

Anonymous said...

I've been saying for years now that anti-Asian racism is rampant in the United States and tolerated in a way that it isn't when it comes to other ethnic groups.

If we all agree that from Jan 1 2012 racism is rampant in the US then anyone who immigrates after that date has acknowledged this fact and agrees to live with the consequences.

Anonymous said...

The concept of 'model minority' has something to do with the attitude among white conservatives that minorities should conform, go along, and more or less submit to the ruling majority.

The very day that the US becomes majority non-white I suspect a variant of this concept will come crashing down with an iron fist. By non-whites against whites.

Anonymous said...

anti-Asian racism is rampant in the United States

Then off to asia with you my friend. I believe plane travel is quite reasonably priced these days.

Biarritz said...

1. Asians (both Asian Americans and non-American Asian ex-pats living in the USA) are the highest per capita recipients of affirmative action (racial preference) benefits through federal, state, and local governament contractor and sub-contractor preferences -'8a' set asides, and 'disadvantaged minority' 10% bidding price alterations, and other preferences and set asides - and government job affirmative action, and private corporate job and 'supplier diversity' preferences. The effects of affirmative action in college admissions is dwarfed by these prevasive and non-transparent programs, especially in a world where the government is the dominant sector of the economy.

2. The media, and the internet media, even including this and other pro-citizen blogs, and possibly the college admissions industry, do not have any clear differentiation between Asian-Americans and ex-pat foreign nationals from Asia - ie non-Americans who should have no claim on 'admissions fairness' at American colleges. Many who are being counted as "Asian Americans" are not, they are often the children of Asian elites who have been parachuted for a couple years into American schools, ranging from public schools to private boarding schools, and who should have no claim on admissions fairness at American colleges.

Biarritz said...

"“Admission to the nation’s top universities and colleges is a zero-sum proposition,” asserts the brief from the 80-20 National Asian American Educational Foundation, one of the groups opposed to affirmative action"

This 80-20 Asian advocacy group only opposes aff.act. when it does not favor Asians. Read their website. They simultaneously advocate for more affirmative action preferences in areas where it favors Asians - government and corporate jobs and leadership.

How's that for principles.

Anonymous said...

"But if Asians do much better than whites, they are a super minority, not a model minority"

Could you please just stay in your country and be a Super Majority? It sounds like being in the US around the evil whites has been quite debilitating to your mental health. Be Korean in Korea and be happy. Be Chinese in China and be happy. Be Indian in India and be happy.

White Americans need their own Gandhi to relieve us of this hostile elite, of our fake victim ruling class.

Harold said...

"We call bashing blacks and Hispanics racism and bashing Jews anti-Semitism. Bashing Asian Americans, we call humor."

Bashing whites is considered virtuous.

ben tillman said...

To some in Texas, the state with the third largest Asian-American population, after California and New York, the mistreatment does not feel like ancient history. Anti-miscegenation laws, in effect here until 1967, and separate-but-equal laws applied to all nonwhites.

That's a lie. American Indians counted as White; Mexicans went to White schools.

And I know Louisiana isn't Texas, but over and over again Chinese settler moved to various parts of Louisiana, intermarried, and melted into the White population.

Anonymous said...

"2) Asian countries aren't making empires that wreck other countries leaving them no place to go. What do we do? " - The reason for there being no place to go isn't our empire(in actuality, our empire is keeping the lid on the worst of the problems), but rather is demographics. You see populations all over the 3rd world went parabolic over the last 50 years, though I suppose that is our fault.

Mexico is fighting a drug war because their population was 17M 100 years ago, and would be 170M if not for mass immigration to America reducing it to merely 120M. Likewise, the middleeast imports the vast majority of its food, and it takes oil to grow that food, either they pony up, or large numbers of people all over planet earth die. Finally, no one forced asians to take our manufacturing base, infact they seem to be rather possessive of it.

The only areas of planet earth that didn't send their populations parabolic are, surprise, the parts of planet earth that the 3rd world can't get into quickly enough.

ben tillman said...

I'm sorry, but these are people who foisted themselves in after all the dirty work of building the Republic, all the blood, sweat and tears were shed by the forefathers of a different people - a people the interlopers, the johnny-come-latelys wish to dictate to.

Think about it - all they is cash-in on the hard work someone else did.


Yes, of course. It is our country, and it is monstrously wrong for the government to give any part of it to immigrants.

ben tillman said...

There is zero justification for giving affirmative action to the descendants of voluntary immigrants. Southern descended blacks (i.e. not from the Caribbean or Africa) and American Indians arguably have a claim to preferences due to their history.

Why? Because the national government discriminated against tehem?

But if that's the criterion, then Whites also have a claim to preferences. The national government has been discriminating against us quite harshly since 1965.

ben tillman said...


To me, the most alarming thing is that I've even witnessed white liberals defending Asian bashing, as if somehow you're the one with the problem if you complain about it.

You're feeding at our trough, and if you don't like the local pigs, GTF back to Asia.

ben tillman said...

We dump our drug war on Mexico, we create turmoil in the middle east to steal their oil, and we force worthless treasuries onto Asian countries.


No, "we" don't. No, "we" don't. And no, "we" don't.

Anonymous said...

"But the MM thing has stuck with Asians because Asians are naturally less aggressive and more docile than other races."

" Whites look down on Asian sheep, their emotions ranging from contempt to amusement. "

The Eastern Asians and Indians who are filling up top positions at investment banks and consulting companies are anything but docile or sheep-like.

I get the impression that many commentators on this site are sheltered basement dwellers with no experience of the real working world or other ethnic groups.

Anonymous said...

It's really depressing to see Steve pic up that stupid "hat hate hate" writing tic from this site's dumbest, most consistently wrong commenter.

O'Sullivan's First Law said...

The university is a pre-modern patronage institution, regardless of whether it's secular or religiously affiliated. I think you (as many people around the world did during the 60s and 70s especially) overestimate its potential as some kind of ad-hoc political instrument.

Anonymous said...

conservatives and theology, well Chapman was involved with rhe Jesus seminar that a lot of evangelicals opposed since it has Jesus as a rebel and not the Lord. Maybe Chapman is politcally sometimes conservative but not in theology which is rarely these days.

Anonymous said...

The US should institute a national college exit exam, along with special honors for high scoring seniors. IV league colleges turn out a fairly crap product considering the selectivity of their admissions, and an exit exam would motivate them to fix their curriculum and graduation requirements.

Anonymous said...

I remember hearing that "model minority" whining 10-13 years ago when I was in college, a medium-sized, really old one in the NE but they're all similar now. On our campus anonymous message board--this was breakthrough tech back then--you could tell a lot of the tetchier scribes were frustrated E. Asian drudges with deep envy of aggrieved blacks' status; many a sermon along the lines of, "THERE ARE STUDENTS AT THIS INSTITUTION WHO SHOULD NOT BE HERE..." (think CSUN library girl) Now our share of Latinos/Hispanics/Lusitanics was pathetic even for then, even for New England, but I can't fathom how they'd have participated in the strife, the milieu was so unlike my native California where pro-Espanol tribalism is never that geographically remote. I think the solution is for Princeton et al. to recruit more high-profile snotty leftist activists like Sam Wang, so then the little testing maniacs out in the country will glom onto the sanctioned line even after they're NOT admitted. For diversicracy that would be win-win.

BrokenSymmetry said...

Anonymous at 2.54pm nailed it.

"There is zero justification for giving affirmative action to the descendants of voluntary immigrants"

That the article had to go back to 1894(!) and a 30 year old hate crime actually suggests a very low level of overt anti-Asian sentiment.

Hapalong Cassidy said...

During my childhood, I lived for 4 years in Puerto Rico, and I remember this being the only place I was subject to anti-Asian slurs on a fairly regular basis. And everyone knows that Black-on-Asian crime is very high. For the most part, I've had little trouble with Whites (many of whom can't even tell I'm half-Asian). And I really think that most whites hold a favorable impression of Asians, while Blacks and Hispanics are more antagonistic towards them.

My point being, Asians who are throwing their lot in with the NAMs instead of whites are making a grave mistake.

Anonymous said...

Chapman, my alma mater, is the the antithesis of my current school, Syracuse. Chapman has skyrocketed in the US News rankings (just below Loyola and Cal Poly SLO) by tightening admissions, appealing to the white upper/upper middle class, and spending money on building cool shit instead of hiring diversity counselors. Syracuse, in contrast, has sunk in the rankings by loosening admissions standards, letting in a lot of minorities, and spending lots of money and energy on "community outreach," like wasting millions of dollars on a new busline from the campus to downtown Syracuse. How's that project working out? Well, not too many students are going off campus, but lots of vibrant youth are coming to the campus area. Muggings and assaults are at a new high this semester, from what I understand. SU even had to get the police department to step up patrols.

Mr. Anon said...

"Ms. Varghese, who is director of the Austin Asian American Resource Center,... “My parents are Catholics from Kerala in southern India,” she said."

Indians may yet succeed in turning themselves into the group most despised by whites. The unmitigated gall of people like Ms. Varghese - to assume the mantle of poor victim and act as if this nation owes them a single damned thing. These are people from some other nation (India), who implicitly claim a history of oppression by yet a different nation (Britain, but actually a lot of their oppression was at the hands of other Indians), and yet when they come to this nation - magically - claim payment for some kind of grievance that we are ostensibly to blame for, and which we must make good. To hell with them.

Sincerely, Ms. Varghese - go to hell.

Mr. Anon said...

"Yan Shen said...

I've been saying for years now that anti-Asian racism is rampant in the United States and tolerated in a way that it isn't when it comes to other ethnic groups."

Nobody cares what you think, asshat.

Anonymous said...

So much narrative has been about wrongs done to non-whites. But what about all the good they found in America? Even when there had been discriminatory laws in the past, Asians were better off, freer, and better protected in the US than back home where they treated one another like shit.

Don't Get No Respect! said...

"Even whites who fear black crime respect black prowess in badassery. With fear comes respect."

Fear is not the same thing as respect. Rational people fear aggressive dogs, mountain lions, hyenas, smallpox, driverless cement trucks, and blacks. Among other things. As far as I know, few whites "respect" those things.

Even when fairly confident of one's odds when faced with an aggressive black, whites will usually avoid conflict out of an entirely reasonable suspicion that the black will have no ability or willingness to process consequences and be perfectly willing to be charged with a felony. Or more likely be unable to predict that acting violently will lead to a felony.

Fear of blacks among whites is based on white's understanding that blacks are (in the aggregate) unpredictable, violent, and unconcerned with consequences. At least for this white, a more accurate term than "respect" would be "contempt".

Anonymous said...

"I really don't like it when ethnicities, whom were only even allowed to settle on US territory post 1965 (earlier generations of Americans were wise enough to keep them out), have the sheer unmitigated gall to pontificate and lecture founding stock Americans on what they can do and can't do."

Ironically, such attitudes have been foisted on them and encouraged by neo-puritan elements of the 'old stock' that is always looking for the next big moral cause to push. Such people pushed prohibition in the past. The new evil drink is nationalism, at least among whites. Also, the neo-puritans of anglo-stock have themselves come under radical Jewish influence that goes back to the early 19th century.

Things were less fair for Asians in the past, but they were less complainish. But they are now encouraged to be angry, cuz otherwise, they are demeaned as uncle tom model minority. Jews and neo-puritan anglos push such ideology.

Anonymous said...

"anti-Asian racism is rampant in the United States"...

Says Yan-Shen, who cites no sources.

Hey, that's good enough for me. If Yan-Shen says something is so, it must be "

Haha. White people are really threatened by Asians.

Whites perceive the only way they can compete with asians is through discrimination. No surprise you bury your head.

Just like there is no discrimination against white people. Right?

Anonymous said...

Wrongs were committed against Asians in America, no doubt, and the story of Chinese on the railroads is especially sad. But we need some perspective here.

For example, there were two great waves of Japanese immigration. One headed toward America, and the other to continental Asia. In America, the immigrants came under the power of whites. In places like Taiwan, Korea, Manchuria, and China , the Japanese immigrants gained power over the native populations with the aid of Japanese military. And Japanese immigrants in Asia could be awful exploitative--though they also did much to build up the economy. So, it's not like Japanese immigrants were innocent angels. Where they gained the upperhand, they used their advantage to discriminate against others. This doesn't excuse American wrongs against Japanese in America, but it was less a case of white evil than the logic of ethnic power. Those with power tend to abuse it against those without it. At least US did much to make amends unlike most Asian nations. But has white America gotten any credit?

Also, look at the three waves of Chinese immigration: Chinese to America, Han Chinese to Tibet and Uighuronia, and Chinese to Southeast Asia.

Chinese had a hard time in the 19th century and some parts of 20th century in America but eventually found a nice new home. And US did defeat Japan that invaded China.

Han Chinese immigrants have been trampling over non-Han people in imperialist holdings like Tibet, no better than what Jewish immigrants have done to Palestinians.

And look at Southeast Asia. White American prejudice against Chinese were sometimes nasty, but the real murderousness against Chinese have been from other yellows. Look at the waves of anti-Chinese violence that shook Malaysia, Vietnam(boat people), Indonesia, etc. And there have been no amends, no apologies.

There is so much yammering about xenophobia but the real danger facing whites is ethnophobia. Whites have been brainwashed to fear, dread, and loathe their own racial/ethnic interests.

Anonymous said...

Vincent Chin story is more complicated. There had been an altercation in which Chin had beat up the two white guys(who, to be sure, taunted him first). That's when two whites went after him with a bat.

Btw, black officers witnessed the whole thing but did nothing about it. Renee Tajima made a movie about this, and at a showing in college, I asked her about the black cops. She said they did nothing wrong. Now, suppose if the cops had been white. They would have been attacked for police indifference. Yep, who, whom.

But it's a shame that the two killers pretty much walked on a technicality.

To her credit, Tajima's documentary portrays the accused as people than cartoonish monsters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOBUB-y70UY&feature=fvwrel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir5z0p1ZeQU&feature=relmfu

But then, Tajima's strategy is to go easier on the killers so as to shift blame on ALL of white America.
I wonder if she's made any movies on black on Asian violence.
Of course not. Asians are cowards. They are afraid of blacks. The reason why they bitch about whites is because whites are nicer and listen to them. The logic of power.
Similarly, blacks used to bitch less about whites when whites were meaner and tougher. Black rage grew more intense just when whites started to get nicer.
The nice teacher is picked on much more than the mean teacher.

Anonymous said...

Asian Americans can't follow the Jewish route because they're not really a cohesive group. Jewish Americans have a religion in common. What do Koreans, Indians and Filipinos really have in common apart from their home countries being located in the same continent? Jews used to be 5% of the US population. None of these Asian nationalities is much over 1% of the US population.

Anonymous said...

"I've been saying for years now that anti-Asian racism is rampant in the United States and tolerated in a way that it isn't when it comes to other ethnic groups."

Anti-Muslim/Arab bigotry is the real shame in America.

Anonymous said...

Look, if you don't want to be a minority, then stay in your own country and fix it up real nice like.

Now of course that is hard because wherever it is you come from is full of people like you who don't know how to fix stuff up real nice like.

Cornelius said...

"One secret is that most high school seniors hate, hate, hate affirmative action. "

NAMs who qualify for elite colleges on their merits also tend to hate affirmative action. Qualified NAMs get lumped in with the mass of affirmative action admits.

Conatus said...

Amused says:

"There's a lot more to say, for example if you were to go by IQ scores alone, 6/7ths of all whites with an IQ over 130 would be non-Jewish. That ratio increases even more if you go to 120.(The average Harvard student is at around 130 in IQ)."

Its about the larger right tail of the Goyim Bell curve which is 32 times larger than the Jewish bell curve.



Even though Jewish IQ is the highest in the world, there are not as many high Jewish IQs relative to everyone else.

For the sake of argument, let’s assume 200 million White Goyim Americans (IQ 100), 6 million Jewish Americans (IQ 115), Normal distribution at the tail ends of the distribution, standard deviations for both populations of 15. That would give us roughly 32 million White Americans with IQ 115 or higher vs 3 million Jewish Americans with IQ 115 or higher. For IQ 130 or higher it is 4.6 million vs 950,000. For IQ 145 it is 270,000 vs 137,000. For IQ 160 it is 6,340 vs 8,100. If it is only 105, IQ 160 would be 6,340 vs 1,400.”

Anonymous said...

You are telling me that Regents is within 20% of UVA in bar exam success. That should chasten liberals to no end.

Anonymous said...

"Arabic, Dante, organic chemistry..."

I suppose Arabic is now a general-ed requirement like three units of Humanities so even O-Chem majors have to take Arabic just like they have to listen to some old-bag prof rant about Dante and Beatrice.

Anonymous said...

On the topic of asian admissions,
Jewish elites are, as a rule, less focused on what is best for jews as a group than jewish proles are.


Jewish elites as a general rule want to demonstrate their elite status by doing things that hurt the non elite jews.

Part of being accepted in to the overall gentile elite is showing a lack of special interest in your own tribe.

As an example, the elite Jews in Sweden aggressively say they are in favor of increased muslim immigration to Sweden. This is because the elite Gentiles of Sweden as a class use opinions on muslim immigration as a status marker.

The fact that the muslim immigrants are setting synagogues on fire in Malmo and raping jewish girls in Malmo as fast as they can is not of concern to the elite Jews.

In fact, the more the elite jews of Sweden push for more muslim immigration, the more the elite Jews are accepted in to gentile elite society in Sweden.

Most US jews recognize that affirmative action hurts the majority of jews, but elite gentile opinion is strongly pro affirmative action so jews that aspire to be accepted in to the gentile elite have to mouth support for affirmative action.

In some other elite gentile circles (such as in the San Francisco Bay area) you can't be accepted in to the gentile elite without being anti-israel. Thus jews in San Francisco that aspire to the elite mouth anti israel views.

Anonymous said...

Both libs and cons have reasons to like and dislike Asians.

For cons, they are MM but also competitors.

For libs, they are pet dogs of PC but also competitors.

Jeff said...

As Mr. Tang writes of the first half of the 20th century, “Asian Texans lived in a distinct racial-caste system structured by racist laws; social hierarchy; segregation of residence, sexual relations and marriage; and the separation of Asian family members from each other.” So the idea of helping them overcome past discrimination in the same way as Latinos and blacks has held appeal for some, especially those who say the suffering has gone unacknowledged.
Asians have often been grouped under the rubric of “model minority,” meaning they make few political demands and keep their head down. “


So his point is it's time for Asians to get into the racial grievance racket like the A-A's and Hispanics? Sure, why not?

My Irish ancestors suffered under Cromwell; maybe I can parlay that into a cushy spot at Oxford or the London School of Economics.

Anonymous said...

"But with condescension comes contempt, and there is an element of condescension in the MM ideal. Whites look down on Asian sheep, their emotions ranging from contempt to amusement"

So much passive-aggression or outright aggression towards whites - ALL THE TIME! The Asian comments on blogs like this only show that the races should be kept apart. Asians are incapable of seeing their own hypocrisy - INCAPABLE - of that I am convinced! But if the white race refuses to see it then let them disappear.

The indoctrination of whites starts so early in life and is so complete that by the time we start discussing college admissions the framing of the conversation is so far down the rabbit hole - it's hopeless.

Whites lose every argument because all the frames are already setup for them to lose. They can only argue for losing or for losing BIG and FAST! Kind of like republicans versus democrats.

The frame needs to be attacked not the content.



Robert said...

Purifying the emotions by terror and pity, we have the Chronicle of Higher Education moaning about the employment disadvantages of the transgendered academic:

http://chronicle.com/article/On-the-Job-Market-as-a/133958/

Anonymous said...

"But, Asian-Americans don't appear interested in following either the Brandeis or Chapman institution-building paths."

Maybe we should call Asians the user minority instead of the model minority. Coming to the US is all about the money, a lot of which they send back to Asia.

And when they shop in the US, they do it at Asian owned stores and shopping centers. They buy cars from Asian owned dealers. They buy houses using Chinese real estate agents. They essentially form their own sub-economy. They also take over whole professions. Been to Kaiser to see your internist, lately? The directory is 90% Asian. Need a dentist, or a pair of eyeglasses, a haircut, your nails done, your shirt dry cleaned, your gas tank filled up? Yup, more than half of these businesses are run by Asians availing themselves of low interest SBA loans for minorities.

Oh, and they expect elite Anglo founded universities to educate their worker bee children, too. The natives are lazy so they deserve to have all their opportunities and resources absconded with by the oh so hard working, brilliant Chinese.

sideways said...

No, you twit, they don't call Jews s model minority because they're white.

Anonymous said...

Reply to Hacienda:

I was just using "caps" to try to emphasize my point. You seem to have taken some kind of umbrage to it.

I still disagree. I don't care if the population of India is 1 billion or 2 billion, as long as those people live in India. It doesn't affect whites living in Britain, Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. But move 100 million of them into western and western-derived countries and its a very different story. Would Mexicans matter much to Americans if they all lived in Mexico, irregardless of whatever that population might be? Which situation would matter more to your average white person in the USA. 40 million Mexicans live in the US and 40 million in Mexico. or this; 1 million Mexicans live in the US and 79 million live in Mexico? Or only a few thousand Mexicans live in the US and 160 million all live within Mexico's borders? Its not the total numbers as much as where they are concentrated. I would suspect that in my first scenario, Mexicans would matter a great deal to America, would be only very slightly of any importance in the second and virtually irrelevent in the third. Of course, since there is only one USA and not three, we can not test this out now can we?

Anonymous said...

"Whites perceive the only way they can compete with Asians is through discrimination".

I wouldn't have to compete with "Asians" at all if my government (Canada) hadn't let them into my country.

By the way, I agree 100% with the poster's comments at 11/2/12 6:15 PM.

ben tillman said...

These are people from some other nation (India), who implicitly claim a history of oppression by yet a different nation (Britain, but actually a lot of their oppression was at the hands of other Indians)

Be careful not to conflate a nation with its rulers.

Those who ruled the British are the ones who also ruled and "oppressed" the Indians in Asia.

If the rulers' actions can be imputed to their British subjects under a new doctrine of respondeat inferior, then they can also be imputed to their Indian subjects under the same doctrine.

ben tillman said...

Also, the neo-puritans of anglo-stock have themselves come under radical Jewish influence that goes back to the early 19th century.

Not surprising. The original Anglo-Saxon Puritans came under radical Jewish influence in the early 17th century.

Anonymous said...

What's wrong white people? You mad?

Hacienda said...

"Black rage grew more intense just when whites started to get nicer."


This blog reveals a lot about the mental contortions of white supremacy.

Dali predicted a day when blacks are valued more than whites. That day is coming. It won't be pretty for white people.

Snippet said...

>>> 1) white people "letting in" other races into their countries says more about how far white people are willing to go to maintain their middle class lifestyle than it does about fairness. Mexicans do the manual labor while Asians do the engineering work so white people can specialize in liberal art degrees. <<< This is conspiracybabble. None of this happens 'so that' white people can do something. We don't sit around planning what we caan make other folks do to enable us to pursue stupid degrees.

>>> 2) Asian countries aren't making empires that wreck other countries leaving them no place to go. What do we do? <<< This is the mother of all excuses for Third World failure, none of which is CAUSED by the white man, who was simply the latest and probably the last in a long and colorful line of empire builders, although some coffee-with-cream colored types living in Pakistan and Afghanistan seem awfully eager to resurrect the Caliphate, which was, in case you didn't notice, an empire.

>>> How bout we quit messing up the world, and then he can have our country back! <<< How about we quit treated parts of the world as if they have no responsibility for their circumstances? We didn't mess up the world. It was messed up before we got there and will be messed up when we leave. It will be interesting to see what the excuses for failure will be when we aren't being blamed, if that ever happens.

Sword said...

Anonymous wrote:
----
Chapman, my alma mater, is the the antithesis of my current school, Syracuse. Chapman has skyrocketed in the US News rankings (just below Loyola and Cal Poly SLO) by tightening admissions, appealing to the white upper/upper middle class, and spending money on building cool shit instead of hiring diversity counselors. Syracuse, in contrast, has sunk in the rankings by loosening admissions standards, letting in a lot of minorities, and spending lots of money and energy on "community outreach," like wasting millions of dollars on a new busline from the campus to downtown Syracuse.
-----

Seems as if you made a really bad transfer.

Truth said...

" Mr. Anon said...


Nobody cares what you think, asshat."

LOL; Grasshopper is making friends again.

Sword said...

Anonymous wrote:
-----
As an example, the elite Jews in Sweden aggressively say they are in favor of increased muslim immigration to Sweden. This is because the elite Gentiles of Sweden as a class use opinions on muslim immigration as a status marker.

The fact that the muslim immigrants are setting synagogues on fire in Malmo and raping jewish girls in Malmo as fast as they can is not of concern to the elite Jews.
----
It seems as if the gentiles are playing the Scotch-Irish for suckers, in this case.

Anonymous said...


"Dali predicted a day when blacks are valued more than whites. That day is coming. It won't be pretty for white people."


It won't be pretty for anyone, dumbass. Somalia really isn't a great model for the world.

Hacienda said...


"I was just using "caps" to try to emphasize my point."

----------------------

Anon 10:02 PM,

This is almost too stupid for me to argue, if you can't imagine a way that declining white numbers worldwide matter greatly there really is no point in continuing an argument with you. But I give you some starter clues- mass global transportation, communications, education. Those 3 will get you started. Adios.


Anonymous said...

"As an example, the elite Jews in Sweden aggressively say they are in favor of increased muslim immigration to Sweden. This is because the elite Gentiles of Sweden as a class use opinions on muslim immigration as a status marker."

No, Jews want more Muslims and blacks in Sweden in order to undermine white power. True, white Swedes are PC as hell, but part of the reason is they've come under American-dominated PC culture and academia, both controlled by Jews.

Anonymous said...

"Black rage grew more intense just when whites started to get nicer."

"This blog reveals a lot about the mental contortions of white supremacy."

It's just the logic of power. If one parent is tough while the other is kind, the kid will show more anger at the kind one than the tough one.
If whites were to become as united, militant, and angry as blacks and Jews, people wouldn't be bitching so much. It's because so many people see whites as soft, conscientious, fair, and etc, that they smell the blood and go after white flesh.

Anonymous said...

"And when they shop in the US, they do it at Asian owned stores and shopping centers."

I think it's because Walmart doesn't carry boiled cats, dried dogs, and tiger penis.

Anonymous said...

"Look, if you don't want to be a minority, then stay in your own country and fix it up real nice like."

Mebbe Asians like being minorities as long as the majority is white. I mean whites treat them better and offer them more dignity and freedom than what they can from their own kind in their own nations. Look at Haruki Murakami. He couldn't stand Japan.

Anonymous said...

"But, Asian-Americans don't appear interested in following either the Brandeis or Chapman institution-building paths."

They prolly figure if they can't get into Harvard or UCLA, there are still many good colleges they can apply to.

Anonymous said...

"'Anti-miscegenation law'" - It must have been so terrible."

You know what's funny? Asian guys complaining about anti-miscegenation laws. I mean Asian guys can only get Asian girls, right? So, anti-miscegenation laws gave Asian women no choice but to marry Asian men. But without such laws, Asian girls go with white guys or even black guys. So, what does that leave Asian men? What a bunch of tards. Lol.

Anonymous said...

"Asian Americans can't follow the Jewish route because they're not really a cohesive group. Jewish Americans have a religion in common. What do Koreans, Indians and Filipinos really have in common apart from their home countries being located in the same continent? Jews used to be 5% of the US population. None of these Asian nationalities is much over 1% of the US population."

This is a very good point. And there's been little immigration from Japan, especially as most Japanese live well and their population is plummeting. And South Korea and Taiwan have among the lowest birthrates in the world, even lower than Western Europe. So, I don't see too many of them fellas coming here.

So, if there's gonna be any Asian power that resembles Jewish power, it will have to come from Chinese immigration or Indian immigration. India is still growing. Chinese population is poised to plummet due to one-child policy, but China still has A LOT of people, and many are desperate to come to the US.
There can be a sizable Chinese-American and Indian-American community, and they might form power blocks like that of Jews. Also, unlike Japanese and Koreans, Chinese and Indians have a long history/experience of overseas networking. Both got plenty of practice in Southeast Asia. Indians got more of it since they lived under British rule for 200 yrs. Brits encouraged Indian businessmen to work in Africa, Middle East, and etc. So, Indians especially have a love/hate thing with the West.

Anonymous said...

More relevant to white interests is not so much the notion of 'model minority' but the ideal of 'model majority' foisted upon whites by Jews.

If the notion of 'model minority' says the minority group should be a 'credit to its race' and not rock the boat and try to be 'nice quiet unassuming folks' who try to fit in and conform, the notion of 'model majority' says the white majority should be ever-so-nice, white bread, bland, ethnophobic, 'tolerant', welcoming of 'diversity', smiley-faced in SWPL fashion, Romney-like-in-going-along-with-Obamnesty, Bush-like-in-embracing-Mexican-illegals, weeping like Lowry over MLK(or BOM, Bouncer of the Mall), and etc.

In other words, the values have been reversed. Instead of minorities trying to model themselves to fit into or be accepted by the majority, the majority must do EVERYTHING to make life easier, happier, and more welcome to minorities.
And when it comes to sexuality, the model majority of heterosexuals must bend over to the minority gay demands.

Btw, if a 'pushover' is someone who's easily pushed over to do stuff, a 'bendover' would be a pushover who serves gays.
Too many bendovers in politics and business.

ben tillman said...

No, you twit, they don't call Jews s model minority because they're white.

In what relevant sense?

ben tillman said...

No, you twit, they don't call Jews s model minority because they're white.

How would being white prevent Jews from being a model minority?

Anonymous said...

"Hacienda said...
"Black rage grew more intense just when whites started to get nicer."


This blog reveals a lot about the mental contortions of white supremacy.

Dali predicted a day when blacks are valued more than whites. That day is coming. It won't be pretty for white people."

Actually, it not really that conplicated ..

When people live in fear of other people, real fear backed with consequences, they tend to make nice... when they are treated nicely, on the other hand, they tend to get haughty...

It's human nature (a lot people particularly those who are tribal in their thinking tend to mistake niceness for weakness and not just plain old niceness because as tribalists they can't understand the concept of reciprocity as extended to strangers.. Whites are more comfortable with this concept ....for a awhile at least).

If you read autobiographies of Whites who lived through the 1950s and 1960s you sometimes see them remarking how their personal or working relations with Non-Whites, and in particular Blacks, deteriorated in the late 1960s. By way of example, jazz musician Art Pepper, remarked in his biogrpahy how he first encounterd Black racism and hostility toward Whites (Pepper was White) when he was released from prison in the late 1960s after a long stint for heroin posesssion. Pepper was a poor White who had grown up in an all Black neighborhood and started performing in all Black groups in L.A. in the 1940s at the age of twelve or thirteen.

What's interesting to ponder is just how much of that is Non-Whites such as Blacks "feeling their oats" because of consciousness raising and efforts of racial agitators and grievance mongerers .... I think a lot.... See, for example, Tom Wolfe's Mau Mauing the Flak Catchers from the late 1960s to catch the opportunities that had opened up for race hustlers..

Whites, sadly, have this horrifying and strange pattern of being nice ... being nice .... being nice ... and then just snapping... and then you get shit like the American Civil War...WWI ...WWII... death camps ..., atomic bombs ...etc ... and bascially creating and using all types of wicked tools of death and destruction on their percieved enemies.

I agree with you it won't be pretty...

Expect to see more of that next time they snap... You know like O said they love clinging to their "guns and bibles" its just sometimes they leave the Bible at home or just forget about the New Testament (and just focus on the Old Testament with all its stories about slaughtering and genociding the other tribes). They try to turn the other cheek... but dang it I guess Jesus just makes it too hard for them...

Don't blame them they can't help it ... It's what they do. Blaming them would be like blaming the Grizzily Bears in our National Parks who get annoyed at tourists getting in their face with their cameras and finally decide to eat a few for lunch.

All it takes is the right conditions for them to go off... and then wham another Hiroshima or wiping out the Indians or enslaving Black or what have you...

Steve, of course, being White, is privy to and aware of this fact and God Bless him is trying avert the catastrophe he sees coming by creating a blog where racial differences can be discussed and peaceful solutions worked out.

A fool's errand if ever there was one.

Sad very sad... truly pathetic state of affairs.

May Heaven help us.

Silver said...

It's really depressing to see Steve pic up that stupid "hat hate hate" writing tic from this site's dumbest, most consistently wrong commenter.

I think it has quite a ring to it. Look at this way: it's W's one positive contribution to discussions on this blog.

Hacienda said...

"May Heaven help us."

------------------------

Or it may be that caucasions really don't exist. But blacks do and so do Mongoloids.
As the tweener "race", caucasions have been misidenfied by caucasions themselves as constituting one of the Big Three races.

I think a more accurate picture is 2 major races on earth- Mongoloids and Afroids. Caucasions are like the adaptive interfroth between the two.

What does this make whites? A fantasy. Like a Chanel No. 5 commercial. Live the fantasy. OK?

Anonymous said...

"Also, the neo-puritans of anglo-stock have themselves come under radical Jewish influence that goes back to the early 19th century."

Not surprising. The original Anglo-Saxon Puritans came under radical Jewish influence in the early 17th century.


Really?? I thought Jewish influence began in the early 20th century. Are you sure this is right either as to the 19th or the 17th? What are you sources?

Anonymous said...

To Hacienda:

I guess you are just to smart for me amigo.

But tell me this. Doomsayers have been calling for a crash in Japan's population for years. Notwithstanding mass global transportation (unless you REALLY mean immigration, legal or otherwise) communications and education, what difference does it make if Japan's population is 30, 60, 90, 120 or 150 million as long as that population is all Japanese and they don't allow in another alien people to replace them?

I guess you like to be glib and say "adios" and points are "too stupid" to argue, when you have nothing intelligent to say.

Hacienda said...

"when you have nothing intelligent to say."

Japan and whites are not good comparison. For again, very obvious reasons. You're not able to make relevant analogies. It's a fatal flaw of ISteve's readership with few exceptions. I'm plenty intelligent with lots of intelligent things to say. Just review what I posted on this thread. But I say things so offhandedly, most people miss it.


Anonymous said...

"You know what's funny? Asian guys complaining about anti-miscegenation laws. I mean Asian guys can only get Asian girls, right? So, anti-miscegenation laws gave Asian women no choice but to marry Asian men. But without such laws, Asian girls go with white guys or even black guys. So, what does that leave Asian men? What a bunch of tards. Lol."

Generally I get the picture of dorky virgin guys among those who add lol in their online comments.

It seems it's this group here that is always commenting about Asian guys here.

First generation Asian guys don't intermarry because of the language/culture barrier. You've noticed this group of people can't speak fluent English right? Second generation Asian men have very high rates of outmarriage according to Pew.

stari_momak said...

Woz -- not Asian.

Linus Torvalds -- not Asian.

Tim Berners-Lee -- not Asian.

Jobs -- not Asian

Denis Ritchie -- not Asian

Moore, Shockley, Claude Shannon. Not Asian

Morse, Marconi, Tesla, Edison. Not Asian

Can someone please tell me again what is the oh so critical contribution that Asians have made to the tech industry?

When Jobs died a did a bit of reading about the homebrew computer club, and happened at the same time to be reading about the birth of the mountain bike. Both came out of that same Bay Area, counter-culture, idiot-savant-slacker milieu of the late sixties, early seventies Bay Area. Despite that being one of the few areas of the country at the time with a significant East Asian population, their contribution was essentially zero (Guy Kawasaki, the apple 'Evangelist', was ironically the least technical of the early apple team).

stari_momak said...

"As the tweener "race", caucasions have been misidenfied by caucasions themselves as constituting one of the Big Three races. "

Yup, that's a 'privilege' derived from, you know, having invented anthropology (and every other -ology known to man).

Anonymous said...

"Can someone please tell me again what is the oh so critical contribution that Asians have made to the tech industry?"

karaoke

Hacienda said...



Yup, that's a 'privilege' derived from, you know, having invented anthropology (and every other -ology known to man).

------------------------------------

My bad. My glibness lends to responses like these. Apologies to all. Yeah, more glibness, I know.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
-------
"As an example, the elite Jews in Sweden aggressively say they are in favor of increased muslim immigration to Sweden. This is because the elite Gentiles of Sweden as a class use opinions on muslim immigration as a status marker."

No, Jews want more Muslims and blacks in Sweden in order to undermine white power. True, white Swedes are PC as hell, but part of the reason is they've come under American-dominated PC culture and academia, both controlled by Jews.
------
A simple check on wikipedia will show you that there is a party in Sweden that has been consistently growing for the last few years, and is poised to become #3 in size soon. In a 8-party parliament, that is quite something for a party that is hated by every MSM outlet there is:

The Party: the Sweden Democrats. There are for a drastic reduction of immigration, much less accomodation to immigrants - both legal and illegal - and in general socially conservative (except for abortion, pro-abortion is a settled issue in Sweden). In short, they are as un-PC as it is possible to be. Imagine Numbers USA being a party of its own, and having 6% of all congress seats.

Hapalong Cassidy said...

Wow, I have to admit I'm a little surprised at the vitriol against Asians on this thread. It's more like something I'd expect to see on Amren or Stormfront, rather than what I'm normally accustomed to seeing on this site. Yan Shen is an obvious troll, but posters are using his remarks as an excuse to go off on all Asians in general. Is this just an anomaly or might this be reflective of something larger? Have four years of Obama made whites feel more marginalized than ever, hence more likely to lash out at all minorities and not just NAMs? Nonetheless, I still hold to my earlier assertion; that most whites have a positive opinion of Asians, and Asians are much better off with Whites in charge rather than NAMs.

ben tillman said...

Really?? I thought Jewish influence began in the early 20th century. Are you sure this is right either as to the 19th or the 17th? What are you sources?

Some sources:

Louis Israel Newman
Richard Popkin
David S. Katz
Adam Sutcliffe
Jonathan Israel

Newman’s “Jewish Influence on Christian Reform Movements” (Columbia U. Press, 1925) may be found online here:

http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=6765260

From the preface (p. ix):

This work is a study of a few typical "Reform Movements" or heresies in the history of Catholicism during the Middle Ages and of Protestantism during the Reformation era. It has been undertaken with a view to describing and analyzing the contributions by Jews and Judaism to the rise and development of these movements. I have selected for detailed investigation the Iconoclastic Controversy of the ninth century, the Catharist, Waldensian, Passagian and Judaizing heresies of the eleventh, twelfth and thirteenth centuries, because they typify "Reform" tendencies within Catholicism. To illustrate similar tendencies in Protestantism, I have chosen the Hussite movement during the fifteenth century, the Pre-Reformation period;... and the Puritan movement in England and America, both during the Post-Reformation period. In the first division of my study I have traced the sources, content and scope of Jewish influence, laying particular emphasis upon the instruction given to Christian Hebraists by Jewish teachers.

ben tillman said...

Israel and his protege Sutcliffe (both Jewish) have promoted the notion that the Enlightenment was a European reaction to the presence of Jews among them. Sutcliffe argues that Jewish Amsterdam was practically a breeding ground of the radical Enlightenment. In short, the Enlightenment came to define itself, Mr. Sutcliffe argues, as the antithesis of all things Jewish.

ben tillman said...

Here are some quotes from Popkin's essay in "Atheism from the Reformation to the Enlightenment", which used to be available at google books but can no longer be read there:

“I began to explore and consider […] why four early sceptics, Montaigne his cousin Francisco Sanchez, the Jesuit priest Juan Maldonado, and Pedro Valencia, all of Spanish background, and all descended from Jewish forced converts to Christianity, were the ones who made scepticism a living issue in the late sixteenth century.”

More Popkin:

"From the pogrom of 1391 ... onward, a large percentage of Spanish and Portuguese Jewry were dragged into churches ... and then converted against their will. It was in this atmosphere that the great Tortosa disputation occurred in 1415, a debate between converted rabbis and nconverted ones."

And:

"This state of affairs produced a hostile group within Christianity, seeking some way of expressing their opposition."

ben tillman said...

Also, look up the historical figures Isaac Luria, Sabbatai Zevi, and Menasseh ben Israel.

Steve Sailer said...

Montaigne was Jewish on his mother's side, and his essays are said to have had a big impact on Shakespeare.

Steve Sailer said...

As part of his PR war against the Catholic Church, Voltaire spent a large amount of time documenting bad things about Jewish orthodoxy, so that Christian readers would make analogy and say, well, the Cardinals aren't quite as obscurantist as the rabbis, but the Cardinals are still more like the rabbis than they are like the philosophes, so that is bad.

Anonymous said...

It's a little more complicated then that to the point that Eliot argued that Montaigne's skepticism was far more prenounced in Pascal than Shakespeare. Either way he was a poison injected straight into the heart of Europe

Steve Sailer said...

Or maybe, you know, Shakespeare, Pascal, and Montaigne were, all in all, pretty good guys.

Anonymous said...

Nope Montaigne was poison. But I was only really commenting to the influence on Shakespeare that's an old theory late 18th century that hasn't aged well against the counter proposition that hey everyone was reading Seneca and Plutarch then so maybe he picked that up on his own.

Anonymous said...

Montaigne was poison? That's just the opinion born of your religious bias.

Anonymous said...

How do you know maybe I just hate conversos. But you definitely demonstrated your anti-religious bias so bravo. Every thing this sight whines about had its genesis in Montaigne. But anti-theism is the opiate of the modern beta male so I understand. I'd hate god too if he had made me shorty and awkward around women.

stari_momak said...

"Hapalong Cassidy said...
Wow, I have to admit I'm a little surprised at the vitriol against Asians on this thread."

Is it vitriol to point out that white Americans (and other whites) were making huge technological progress without much Asian presence, and that even today, despite the stellar test scores and huge overrepresentation at our elite universities, that Asian contribution to tech seems decidedly second tier.

I suspect the mass immigration of Asians has just crowded out less studious whites from our top schools, without really contributing much to the overall rate of technological progress. I mean, 38 years ago we were putting landers on Mars, and we are still at it. Thirty years ago we had a renewable nearspace shuttle, today we don't. (It was particularly tragic to watch the Shuttle travel through an LA that has experienced total demographic transformation from when it was built). 45 years ago you could travel commercially from New York to London faster than today. Twenty years ago we could have flame wars over USENET -- not as pretty but pretty close to what we have going on here.