August 3, 2013

Israel tests some would-be immigrants' DNA for Jewishness

From The Times of Israel:
A number of people from the former Soviet Union wishing to immigrate to Israel could be subjected to DNA testing to prove their Jewishness, the Prime Minister’s Office said Sunday. 
The policy was reported in Maariv on Monday, one day after the Israeli paper revealed that a 19-year-old woman from the former Soviet Union was required to take the test to qualify for a Birthright Israel trip.

The Prime Minister’s Office confirmed that many Jews from the FSU who were born out-of-wedlock can be required to bring DNA confirmation of Jewish heritage in order to be allowed to immigrate as a Jew. 
A source in the PMO told Maariv that the consul’s procedure, approved by the legal department of the Interior Ministry, states that a Russian-speaking child born out-of-wedlock is eligible to receive an Israeli immigration visa if the birth was registered before the child turned 3. Otherwise a DNA test to prove Jewish parentage is necessary.

This seems not unreasonable. Going back to Sen. Henry Jackson's legislation to give special rights to immigrate to Israel (and America) to Soviet Jews, a lot of fairly random Russians have claimed to be Jewish to cash in. For example, I knew a lady from Leningrad in the early 1990s who wasn't noticeably Jewish in looks, demeanor, culture, or family ties, but her Plan C for staying in America (she wanted to be blackjack dealer in Las Vegas) was to assiduously pull together a stack of genealogical paperwork (of who knows what authenticity) to prove she was Jewish enough to attain refugee status.

77 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hilarious. These are the same people who devised and pushed (and continue to push) the ideologies that "race is a social construct" and "we're all the same," and all that other Cultural-Marxist prattle.

But when it comes to THEIR interests, then oh, of course, suddenly race is very, very real.

This also settles once and for all the claim that Judaism is "just a religion, not an essentialist aspect." No it isn't -- right from the tribe themselves.

Teemu said...

"I knew a lady from Leninberg"

Leningrad?

Jim Bowery said...

DNA testing is becoming so cheap, who needs a border fence? Just blanket test the population. Oh, wait. That's separatist. So its supremacist by definition -- except for Jews that is -- in which case its not supremacist to be separatist. In fact, its not supremacist to be supremacist -- its just being nice to other nations. Hey, I just thought of the title of my next book "Jewish Exceptionalism".

John said...

We need to DNA test Elizabeth Warren to see how much Injun blood she has.

Steve Sailer said...

I meant St. Petersgrad.

countenance said...

Amar'e Stoudamire wants to be a citizen of Israel. I kid thee not:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/amar-stoudemire-filed-israeli-citizenship-article-1.1416218

Anonymous said...

A Soviet oficial said that he knew that the Soviet Union was over when the jews abandoned it for israel and the US.

anony-mouse said...

Actually there is a Leninberg in the Saratov Oblast.

That's what I thought you meant.

Its tough to be knowledgeable among people who are sarcastic.

Anonymous said...

These are the same people who devised and pushed (and continue to push) the ideologies that "race is a social construct" and "we're all the same,"

No they're not. First, they're Israeli Jews, not U.S. Jews. Both in Israel and the U.S. there are both realists and blank slatists in the Jewish community, although the blank slatists are arguably more influential here. One thing that hasn't been considered is that the testing was being requested of a women who was trying to obtain a free trip to Israel under the "Birthright" program. There may have been some instigation for testing by the organization that runs those trips, and the Foreign Ministry didn't seem aware of it. Also, the father of the girl to whom the request was made is likely Jewish, having worked at a rabbinical college in the U.S. At least in this case, even people who are plausibly Jewish are being asked for testing.

Anonymous said...

Lets hope the children of Abrahaaam regret free antisemitism perpetuated by this blog.
Now any news about Israel and Jews is anti Semitic.

Prof. Woland said...

There are a lot of hard feelings in the US-Russian émigré community between Jews and non-Jews due to the residual fallout over Jackson Vanik. To maximize their opportunity of escaping the USSR and gaining entry into the US, most Jews greatly exaggerated their claims of how badly they were treated. The non-Jewish Russians who were trapped there were quite aware of how their former countrymen turned their backs and felt betrayed. This was particularly galling after claiming for centuries that they just wanted to be treated like everybody else. The USSR had invested an disproportionate amount of resources into educating and promoting their Jewish population only to have them split the first chance they got. Many of these Russian Jews never thought they would run into other Russians again so they weren't hesitant about trashing the ones that stayed behind. At this point it is too late to take anything back and ever Russian knows exactly what Jews really think of them.

Anonymous said...

Want to get into US via Israel? Lie

Anonymous said...

Here in the USA, it's Mexicans and other Central Americans pretending to be Cuban, as was just reported: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-04-17/news/fl-posing-as-cuban-citizens-20130417_1_immigration-fraud-legal-residency-u-s-immigration

Silver said...

" although the blank slatists are arguably more influential here."

Typical bs one expects from you people.

Anonymous said...

"Its tough to be knowledgeable among people who are sarcastic."

Anony-mouse, ALL your comments are sarcastic. It's amusing to be observant around people who aren't self-aware.

And this seems to be a satellite shot of Leninberg. It's just some fields. I don't even see any houses.

That makes your boast about being knowledgeable seem unwarranted here. You must have looked up this unfamiliar place name after the fact, i.e. after you saw it mentioned here. According to Google there is a place called Leninberg in Russia, but it seems to consist of empty fields. I wouldn't expect either Ken Jennings or Rain Man to know of it. Why would anyone memorize the names of small, uninhabited patches of ground on the other side of the Earth?

Anonymous said...

A theory about Leninberg in the Saratov Region of Russia:

Saratov is located on the Volga. There might have been some Volga Germans in the countryside around it in the past. Leninberg is just a German version of Leningrad. There used to be a Leninabad in Azerbaijan. The -bad part seems cognate with Islamabad, Heydarabad, Abbotabad, etc.

Why is there nothing on the site anymore? A lot of Volga Germans were exiled to Kazakhstan and Siberia during WWII (FDR wasn't the only one with such concerns during that period). If they later returned, they might have moved to Germany after 1991. Most Volga Germans did. Few remain in Russia today.

Anonymous said...

23andme just dropped their price to $99 + $8 for shipping. It was $250-300 a couple years ago. It will tell you if you're Jewish. A jewish friend signed up and it showed him all his closest relatives who has also signed up. They were jewish 2nd and 3rd cousins.

Anonymous said...

Can we have a DNA test that determines whether or not you're a white hispanic or just a hispanic hispanic?

Ambacti said...

It was always taken for granted that a substantial proportion of those making aliyah from the former Soviet Union would be of questionable Jewishness. This was tolerated in light of the demographic war Israel was fighting against its Arab Muslim citizens. The influx of Russians over the past 25 years has dramatically changed the Israeli demographic and political landscapes, and created strong pockets of opposition to further Russian immigration. Current resistance to Russian immigration originates primarily from three directions; 1. The 20% of Israelis who are Arabs, for whom the Russians nurse none of the culturally relativistic magnanimity that the full blooded Ashkenazi elite do, 2. The 40% of Israelis who are Sephardi, who found themselves competing for prole jobs with the dimmer goyish fraction of the new Russians immigrants and 3. The 10% of Israelis who belong to the old Tel-Aviv left-wing Ashkenazi political elite who are increasingly finding themselves in the perpetual political wilderness. The Russians have pushed Israeli politics to the right, giving us strong men like Sharon and Netanyahu.

Natanyahu is of course a high-IQ Ivy league Ashkenazi but his political base is composed primarily Sephardis and Russians. Perhaps the recent demographic projections which indicate a decline in Arab Israeli fecundity gave the Sephardis enough clout to push through some restrictions on further Russian immigration.

As many as a quarter of the Russians in Israel may be full-blooded Slavic goys. A relative related to me the stark contrasts one can see between some IDF soldiers, such as a diminutive Anthony Weiner like Ashkenazi patrolling side by side with a massive Vitali Klitschko clone. I find myself conflicted on this issue, on the one hand Slavs are probably not the best genetic stock to contribute to a nation, on the other hand, they have virtually no indigenous culture left and so have a good rate of integration, they have significantly higher average IQ's than Sephardis and can contribute eugenically to their shitty gene pool, and they scare the shit out of Arabs.

I have never been to Israel and can't read Hebrew, so if anyone can correct my second hand observations please do so. Steve and his commenters generally know very little about Israel and Jews, and seem dead-set against moving away from the "Israel is an ethnically pure racist Ashkenazi super state" meme. If this meme reaches the big leagues and elicits comment from the NYT, it will only bite the anti-immigration movement in the ass, as Israel may be trumpeted as a diverse and functioning 60% non-white state which the entire West should aspire to emulate.

This right-wing Israeli satirical online news show which appears to be produced by Russians, Sephardis and a few right wing Ashkenazis satirizes the left wing Tel-Aviv Ashkenazi media and might give the iSteve commentariat a fresher perspective on Israeli issues.

Anonymous said...

I knew a lady from Leningrad

Who wanted to prove Jewish blood she had

But they said she wasn't Jewish

And her face turned rather bluish

...(Can anyone else finish this poem?) (writer's block)

Ambacti said...

"There are a lot of hard feelings in the US-Russian émigré community between Jews and non-Jews due to the residual fallout over Jackson Vanik. To maximize their opportunity of escaping the USSR and gaining entry into the US, most Jews greatly exaggerated their claims of how badly they were treated. The non-Jewish Russians who were trapped there were quite aware of how their former countrymen turned their backs and felt betrayed. This was particularly galling after claiming for centuries that they just wanted to be treated like everybody else."

Do you have any source to corroborate this? As a Russian Jew in Brighton Beach Brooklyn, I have extensive experience in dealing with Russians and I can assure you they are no more "Jew aware" than the average American goy, perhaps even less so. You probably do not have much experience dealing with the average Russian, that would explain why you imagine that they are aware of any American legislation, past or present, on any issue. Additionally, Russians that abandoned ship themselves are not inclined to criticize Jews for emigrating.


"The USSR had invested a disproportionate amount of resources into educating and promoting their Jewish population only to have them split the first chance they got."

The post-Trotsky Soviet Union did no such thing, in fact they did quite the contrary.

"Many of these Russian Jews never thought they would run into other Russians again so they weren't hesitant about trashing the ones that stayed behind. At this point it is too late to take anything back and every Russian knows exactly what Jews really think of them."

Yes, in between driving taxis, competing with Mexicans for construction jobs, drinking vodka and pretending to be Jewish to get handouts, the Russian immigrants are rioting through the shtetls and teaching the Joos a lesson. I think you may be clinging to an unsound Great White Hope.

Whiskey said...

The blank slate we are all the same crap is Protestant and Vatican 2 Christian junk. My Irish grandmother reportedly had a wealth of invective regarding Jews, Hungarians, Germans, Italians, Mexicans, Cubans, etc. and that was typical.

Israeli Jews are self selected Chosen people, Irish KNOW they are better than all others and different too. Blank slate universalism is Christian or post Christian. Mostly protestant or Vatican II.

Mormons are not universalist either despite missionary work.

Whiskey.

CJ said...

Ambacti wrote, "...such as a diminutive Anthony Weiner like Ashkenazi ...".

The Weinertexter certainly looks like a skinny weasel in most photos, but according to Wikipedia he is 1.96 m (about 6'4") tall.

Orthodox said...

There once was a lady from Leningrad,
Boasting of much Jewish blood she had,
Immigration said she had chudzpah,
"We don't give out mitzvahs!"
"Now get your ass back to Riyadh!"

IHTG said...

Ambacti: I'm not aware of any substantial restrictions placed on the immigration of Russians to Israel. They basically just stopped coming as Russia's economy improved under Putin.

Spike Gomes said...

Let me get that meter a bit tighter for you:

There was a young lady from Leningrad

Who wanted to prove the Jewish blood she had

But they said she tweren't Jewish

And her face turned quite bluish

It turns out her Dad was some cad!

Eh, not quite perfect, but for a minutes worth of work...

sabril said...

"These are the same people who devised and pushed (and continue to push) the ideologies that 'race is a social construct' and 'we're all the same,' and all that other Cultural-Marxist pratt"

Yes, because each and every Jew is responsible for the words and thoughts of every other Jew. And if there is any contradiction, it means that every last Jew is a hypocrite.

Anonymous said...

I am dating a Czech Jewish girl right now. She looks 100 per cent Slavic although she is Jewish (both parents are Jewish) - they moved to Israel after the Berlin Wall fell and then moved to America. Looks can be deceptive that way.

I am fairly certain that there has been a lot of intermingling between Ashkenazi Jews and non-Jews in Europe over the centuries. In England, there are a lot of Jews that do not look visibly Jewish but they are Jews. So I am not sure how you identify a Jew from a non-Jew by DNA tests.

Anonymous said...

It is reflection of Israel's booming economy and rising prosperity that these kinds of schemes are being concocted by people who are not Jewish. One interesting factoid that needs to be considered (to allow me to make my point): consider that Israel and Egypt share the same goddamn desert. Egypt's per capita income barely slithers above sub-saharan African levels and Israel's is now slightly above the EU average (I would not be shocked if it overtook the UK's in five years). It is this fact that is making Israel an easy target for immigration scammers.

As an Indian, I can assure you that suicidal "love the world libbers" are not a white or Jewish phenomenon exclusively. In India there is evidence of genocide and extreme violence committed in the name of Islam over the centuries and yet there is no shortage of so-called "secular" Libtards that are busy digging the country's grave. And they do all this with no provocation from any "Jewish lobby". It is a very interesting phenomenon that needs to be understood. Apparently, India has lost more innocent people to Islamic terrorism than any country on earth other than Iraq and yet these so-called "secular" Liberals (who are overwhelmingly upper caste, educated Hindus) are willing to overlook all the killings, extortions and murders committed by Muslims (especially in Kashmir) but one little act of violence against Muslims (especially in states ruled by the Hindu nationalist BJP) and the entire Liberal "Secular" complex descends on these states like a pack of wolves.

I am only giving this counter-example because a lot of readers on this site have a certain view of why things are the way they are in the Western world. But the example of India shows that people of this "type" are breeding in many countries that have political regimes based on modern western principles of freedom and equality (or even countries that pretend to have such principles). As for immigration, India gets a massive amount of illegal immigration from Bangladesh. This immigration has turned entire states in India into Muslim majority states and has created no end of ethnic conflict and population displacement. But the entire "Liberal Secular" Hindu establishment is completely silent and complicit on this. To me they look like mirror images of white western liberals (perhaps they think that being like a white western liberal is the highest form of being that can exist). So on Jews and Israel, I think some degree of nuance is in order. I cannot agree to the views expressed by some that Israel is simply a "Ashkenazi Jews Supremacist Apartheid state". One can believe this if one wants to believe it (out of a feeling of hatred or animosity for Jews as a people) but if one wants to really understand politics and the facts, the truth is a lot more complicated.

Anonymous said...

Ambacti said...

>Slavs are probably not the best genetic stock to contribute to a nation


There are these and those kinds of Slavs.





SFG said...

How about...

I knew a lady from Leningrad
Who wanted to prove Jewish blood she had
But they said she wasn't Jewish
And her face turned rather bluish
And now she's serving pork in Nevad'.

Anonymous said...

"Typical bs one expects from you people."

Yes it's bs all the way down. Constantly adjusting angles to see what will stick. The struggle for western civilization's soul is a struggle against bs. I used to think western civilization could beat it. It has become painfully obvious that bs is winning. The problem is that weapons of mass destruction and bs don't mix. Interesting time...

Anonymous said...

Russians of non-Jewish decent are generally right-wingers? I never would have thought that.

I (a curious goy) visited Israel last year. The demographics of your average mass of citizens look nothing like you might find in a U.S. Ashkenazi neighborhood. As an aside, the girls there are absolutely gorgeous. Were I Jewish, I'd want to stay.

panjoomby said...

thank you to Ambacti - that was excellent info & much appreciated.

Conatus said...

Isn't being Jewish a religion rather than a race, a faith rather than a genetic pattern?
Or is that one of those deux meaning concepts that can be used either way, depending on the needs of the argument and the needs of the arguer?
Kind of like the Jewish demographic being counted as 'white' for Ivy league admissions, but Jewish only if you are crowing ethnic triumphalism caws.
Deux meanings is a handy rhetorical tool but it only works if you are above criticism.
Being above criticism gives you rhetorical freedom other ethnic groups are denied.
But also if you ponder this 'above criticism' prohibition, if you are in this minority that Jim Goad describes as those 'Who Must Never Be Named Under Threat of Eternal Damnation' then you are in the same relation that YHWH(or G_d) has to that very special and chosen minority.
They cannot name Him and we cannot name Them.
Patterns are great.

Power Child said...

One of the things every Jewish kid grows up hearing about over and over again is how the Nazis used to go around with eye-color charts. If your eyes weren't blue (or green?) enough, they threw you on a train to Auschwitz.

(The effect of this mantra on Jewish kids is supposed to be both horrifying and infuriating, as they look around and see that one or two of their Jewish classmates have blond hair and blue eyes.)

(Also, slightly OT but have you noticed that in Seth MacFarlane's world, all Jews are apparently redheads?)

If the Nazis had used DNA testing to determine who to put on trains, do you think it would have created enough of a stigma to turn Israel decisively against its use?

Anyway, that little hypocrisy aside, I think this is another great example of Israel doing smart things that we Americans could learn from.

Power Child said...

I once knew a lady from Leningrad

Who wanted to prove that Jewish blood she had

But they said "Not a Jew"

And her face turned rather blue

So they sent her instead to Leninabad

Anonymous said...

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/07/jewish-success-is-it-ever-a-story.html

europeasant said...

Ahh! to be Black and Jewish. Maybe the best of all both worlds.

Anonymous said...

"An excerpt from a kind of memoir
That through the years goes coursin'---
Hank Jaglom dishing dirt at lunch
With Welles; from 'My Lunches with Orson':
Henry Jaglom (HJ): It’s like in Israel, where there’s no art now. All these Jews, they thought they were gonna have a renaissance, and suddenly, they’re producing a great air force, but no artists. All those incredible virtues of the centuries—

Orson Welles (OW): They left all that in Europe. Who needs it? They get to Israel, and they sort of go into retirement.

HJ: Their theater is boring; their film is boring. Painting and sculpture—

OW: Boring. You know, the only time they make good music is when Zubin Mehta, a Hindu, comes to conduct.

HJ: It’s amazing. When the Jews were in Poland, every pianist in the world—

OW: Every fiddler who ever lived was Jewish. It was a total Russian-Jewish, Polish-Jewish monopoly. Now they’re all Japanese and Orientals. [Arthur] Rubinstein is gone.

HJ: Last year.

OW: I knew Rubinstein for forty years, very well. I told you his greatest line. I was with him at a concert in Albert Hall, and I had no seat, so I listened to the concert sitting in the wings. He finished. Wild applause. And as he walked into the wings to mop his face off, he said to me, “You know, they applauded just as loudly last Thursday, when I played well.”

HJ: Dying at ninety-five is not bad. He had a full life.

OW: Did he ever.

HJ: It’s true, all that, then? That he fucked everybody?

OW: He was the greatest cocksman of the nineteenth century. Of the twentieth century. The greatest charmer, linguist, socialite, raconteur. Never practiced. He always used to say, “You know, I’m not nearly as good a pianist technically, as many of my rivals, because I am too lazy to practice. I just don’t like to. [Vladimir] Horowitz can do more than I can. He sits there and works. I like to enjoy life. I play clinkers all the time.” But, he says, “I play it better with the clinkers.”

HJ: And Horowitz hates his life, and for fifteen years hasn’t been able to play or even move.

OW: Rubinstein walked through life as though it was one big party.

HJ: And then ended it with this young girl. Didn’t he leave his wife after forty-five years when he was ninety to run off with a thirty-one-year-old woman?

OW: Like Casals. Who suddenly, at the age of eighty-seven or something, came up with a Lolita."



Big Bill said...

Reading Ambacti's comment, as a member of the American Nation I felt obligated to respond.

The Russians were invited in by the Ashkenazi elite who are largely secular and pretty much controlled all the Israeli institutions.

The Ashkenazi didn't care much about the proper Jewish breeding records at the time figuring that it could all be straightened out by reasonable people later. They were largely secular/atheist types like the Russians they were welcoming so it really didn't seem like that big a problem.

It was and continues to be a big problem. And the source of the problem is the Orthodox Jewish establishment. They control all Israeli Jewish family law.

A huge number of Russians were Jewish enough to get into Israel and fit in well with the secular Ashkenazi elite. Unfortunately they lack the proper Jewish breeding records and therefore are outside the race-pure Jewish breeding pool.

The Orthodox establishment refuses to convert the marginally Jewish Russians into official, breeding Jews. The Orthodox will only convert Russians if, after months and maybe years of studying Jewish scripture and law, the potential Russian convert honestly agrees to adhere to all the bizarre religious rules. By and large, the Russians won't. They want to live like all the other secular/atheist/freethinking Israeli Ashkenazi Jews.

But unless they convert and are added to the Jewish breeding books they cannot marry a Jew.

As a result, and due to Orthodox control of all Jewish family law and admission into Jewhood, the Russians without proper Jewish breeding records are forming a separate breeding pool within Israel itself. They are forming their own endogamous community. And that poses a major problem in Israel.

This leads to some truly weird situations. For example, an atheist Israeli Jewish guy, a guy who "knows" all the "Moses" and "tablets from God" stuff is hogwash, will nonetheless refuse to marry a Russian girl who believes the exact same if she is not on the Jewish breeding books as an official Jew. And since the only way she can become an official card-carrying Jew is by pretending to believe that stuff, there is no chance they will ever marry.

And why won't he go to a foreign country (like Malta, a common marital destination) and marry her there?

Because their children would not be official, card-carrying Jews. they offspring would themselves be tainted and cast out of the Jewish community (and wouldn't get all the bennies that Jews get in Israel).

It's like Jim Crow a hundred years ago. You may fall in love with a wonderful black girl and go to Mexico to marry her, but would you want all your descendants forevermore to be second class citizens?

But please do not misunderstand me. I do not sneer at thrm for their alleged "hypocrisy". They are not hypocrites. Far from it. It reflects the consistency of their fundamental moral values: the perpetuation and advancement of the Jewish Nation.

Jim Crow, racial/ethnic covenants on the land, anti-miscegenation laws and segregation are bad for the Jewish Nation living in Exile in the West. The same laws are good for the Jewish Nation in Israel.

As always, don't listen to what they SAY in America. Look at what they DO in Israel and follow that.

Border fences patrolled by soldiers and desert concentration camps for "illegal infiltrators" work to preserve Jewish supremacy in Israel. They will work in America as well.

Anonymous said...

There was a young a lady from Leningrad
who evidenced the crop of the blood she had:
one grew up in a shule
The other a school
And one placed a bomb in Bagadad

David said...

>I knew a lady from Leningrad

Who wanted to prove Jewish blood she had

But they said she wasn't Jewish

And her face turned rather bluish<


And when they called her a schwartze, she got *really* mad

Anonymous said...

Wonderful for the Israelis. Now if we could only pass a requirement for a DNA test of Whiteness for any immigrant wishing to settle in a white or already semi-white (e.g. California) country.

BTW, a fascinating blog of a Polish Catholic woman who married an Israeli, has children born there as lsraelis, but blogs as a Polish Catholic describing her experiences in the Jewish state: http://gojka.blog.onet.pl/. The name of her blog translates as "A goy woman in Israel" and she describes all kind of Jewish weirdness but is, on the whole, positive for Israel.
Tak Seiyo

IHTG said...

Big Bill, are you ever right?

Anonymous said...

A lively young lady from Len-

-ingrad flew to Gurion (Ben);

Yet a DNA test

Show no Jewish ancest-

-ry: it's just she liked circumcised men.

Anonymous said...

Corrected:

A lively young lady from Len-
-ingrad flew to Gurion (Ben);
Yet a DNA test
Showed no Jewish ancest-
-ry: it's just she liked circumcised men.

Silver said...

There was a young lass from the Pale,
With stories galore to regale,
That, as far as she knew,
She had been raised as a Jew,
Yet the DNA test she did fail.

Svigor said...

This seems not unreasonable.

You have a point. National Socialism's always gotten a bum rap.

These are the same people who devised and pushed (and continue to push) the ideologies that "race is a social construct" and "we're all the same,"

No they're not. First, they're Israeli Jews, not U.S. Jews. Both in Israel and the U.S. there are both realists and blank slatists in the Jewish community, although the blank slatists are arguably more influential here.


You're so right. Israeli Jews don't push blank-slatery and the delusion of equality in Israel; they wait until they're somewhere over the Atlantic before they do that. And you're definitely right about there being a Jewish janitor somewhere in America who opposes blank-slatery and the delusion of equality being pushed in America. And if the Germans who tried to blow up Hitler could see that janitor today, they might want to buy him a beer. I mean, I was just thinking the other day, how many Palestinians and Muslims there are who love Israel, even if those who are a bit more stern with Israel are arguably more influential, in some places.

At least in this case, even people who are plausibly Jewish are being asked for testing.

Kinda like the Nuremberg Laws, then. Like I said, bum rap.

Typical bs one expects from you people.

I've gotten to the point where I find it almost cute. "Aw, lookit the lil' fella who just won't learn."

I have never been to Israel and can't read Hebrew, so if anyone can correct my second hand observations please do so. Steve and his commenters generally know very little about Israel and Jews, and seem dead-set against moving away from the "Israel is an ethnically pure racist Ashkenazi super state" meme.

Maybe you just generally know very little about Steve's commentariat? I'm trying to think of the last time I heard the "'Israel is an ethnically pure racist Ashkenazi super state' meme." Or the first, for that matter. It's not the first time I've heard a Jew substitute in "Ashkenazi" for "Jew," or "Jew" for "Ashkenazi," when it serves his purposes, though

If this meme reaches the big leagues and elicits comment from the NYT, it will only bite the anti-immigration movement in the ass, as Israel may be trumpeted as a diverse and functioning 60% non-white state which the entire West should aspire to emulate.

Well, sure, American Jews will lie. They won't wait for it to reach the big leagues, either, whatever that's supposed to mean; I've heard Jews compare their equivalent of intra-European "diversity" to real, American inter-racial diversity many times. I'm sure they're right in their assumption that a more than trivial number of listeners are stupid enough to fall for it. They do the same thing with "intermarriage," asserting that Jews marrying Irish or Germans or Italians is somehow equivalent to Irish or Germans or Italians marrying blacks, yellows, and browns.

This right-wing Israeli satirical online news show which appears to be produced by Russians, Sephardis and a few right wing Ashkenazis satirizes the left wing Tel-Aviv Ashkenazi media and might give the iSteve commentariat a fresher perspective on Israeli issues.

Like I said, bum rap.

Anonymous said...

Mormons are not universalist either despite missionary work.

Neither are Muslims.

Svigor said...

Yes, because each and every Jew is responsible for the words and thoughts of every other Jew. And if there is any contradiction, it means that every last Jew is a hypocrite.

Right. When you're in a war - say, invading Germany in 1945 - you check everyone individually for their loyalties. And putting sympathy for the good guys on the other side of the front ahead of winning is definitely the best way forward. That's always been Israel's policy. Which is of course, the only reason American Jewry supports Israel so closely.

Look, the gist is this: American Jewry is fine being closely associated with Israel, on a group level. And Israel is busy acting a lot like Apartheid South Africa, but with the luxury of a majority. It's National Socialism lite, but with the luxury of a population that doesn't have to learn from scratch. Those same American Jews form the vanguard of the forces aligned against Euro-Americans having for themselves anything resembling what Jews have for themselves in Israel, even in the intellectual or spiritual senses.

If the overwhelming bulk of American Jews weren't okay with this, then there'd at least be an argument about it among Jews. There's no argument.

That's the reality, and nobody gives a damn about a few special Jewish snowflake counter-examples here and there who post anonymously on Steve's blog. I bet lots of perfectly innocent Good Germans got raped or killed by the Red Army.

Put another way: who gives a damn about your "each and every Jew" thing? Quit changing the subject.

So on Jews and Israel, I think some degree of nuance is in order.

I agree. Talk to the guys who say nothing is Jews' fault to see lack of nuance.

Yes it's bs all the way down. Constantly adjusting angles to see what will stick.

Indeed. I've argued in many venues, and it's amusing to think back on how the arguments change, depending on the audience, and how often they completely contradict one another; the sociopathic approach.

Or is that one of those deux meaning concepts that can be used either way, depending on the needs of the argument and the needs of the arguer?

Steve seems to have high hopes for Jews coming around to noblesse oblige. I don't. Jews have their qualities, but ranking highly in tolerance and unselfishness isn't among them. They're too ethnocentric, and so tend to reserve such things for one another.

Average Joe said...

But don't the Israelis want their country to be vibrant? How can they be vibrant without diversity?

Average Joe said...

A Soviet oficial said that he knew that the Soviet Union was over when the jews abandoned it for israel and the US

Does this Soviet official have a name?

Average Joe said...

First, they're Israeli Jews, not U.S. Jews

But have you noticed that the "U.S. Jews" tend to turn a blind eye to the things that Israeli Jews do, but would denounce those same things as Nazism if done by U.S. gentiles? Can you imagine the uproar if in 2012 Mitt Romney had called for DNA testing of immigrants to the United States?

Average Joe said...

My Irish grandmother reportedly had a wealth of invective regarding Jews, Hungarians, Germans, Italians, Mexicans, Cubans, etc. and that was typical.

So now you are claiming to be Irish instead of Scotch-Irish, Whiskey?

Average Joe said...

I am dating a Czech Jewish girl right now. She looks 100 per cent Slavic although she is Jewish (both parents are Jewish)

Shouldn't you be sending this to Penthouse?

Average Joe said...

I think this is another great example of Israel doing smart things that we Americans could learn from

The problem is that whenever we do the same things that the Israelis do, we get accused of being racists. For example, have you noticed that it is only racist when we build a border fence/wall?

Anonymous said...

Does this Soviet official have a name?

Kaganovich?

Anonymous said...

There are differences between Israel and South Africa. The Palestinians want to destroy the state and drive the Israeli Jews into the sea. The Palestinians were certainly not treated justly in the establishment of Israel and Jordan, but enough of them have held onto an uncompromising eliminationist program that negotiation has proven near futile. You don't want all of those Israelis in the U.S., the Europeans and Arabs don't want their respective former diasporas back, so you might as well consider Israel around for at least the intermediate term. The Israelis see it that way, and they are going to defend themselves from annihilation.

You also neglect to consider that the border fence and "concentration camp" in the desert are rearguard actions, the former to reduce proven risk of terrorist attacks and the latter to keep out illegal immigrants after illegal immigration of enormous scope has already occurred. Whole neighborhoods of Tel Aviv and environs are now populated by sub-Saharan Africans. Egypt has done little to keep them from crossing into Israel. For a minute country like that with a tenuous majority and hold on the land, that degree of illegal immigration is an immediate threat. Yet they have their own cheap labor lobby and politically correct doves who protest. From the viewpoint of some ordinary Israelis, Netanyahu dragged his heels in moving to confront the problem.

Lastly, younger non-Orthodox American Jews are less ethnocentric than their parents and grandparents. But they have also been indoctrinated to accept political correctness, rather as young white gentiles have. I expect that they will be less attached to Israel, or at least more critical of hardline Israeli government policy, once they come into their own. I also think that they will be more open to nobless oblige, although the beneficiaries will be politically correct.

Silver said...

Alternative version:

There was young girl from the Pale
Who for greener pastures set sail.
Said she sought milk and honey
- not to mention the money! -
But the DNA test she did fail.

Anonymous said...

Shouldn't you be sending this to Penthouse?

Sorry to disappoint you bro. You will have to make do with your existing collection for wanking purposes.

sabril said...

"Which is of course, the only reason American Jewry supports Israel so closely."

Yes, it has nothing to do with simply having a sense of connection, just like Irish Americans support Ireland and Italian-Americans support Italy and British-Americans support Britain.

"Look, the gist is this: American Jewry is fine being closely associated with Israel, on a group level."

How do you measure such association "on a group level"? Because there are a lot of American Jews who are indifferent to Israel.

" And Israel is busy acting a lot like Apartheid South Africa, but with the luxury of a majority."

Lol, more nonsense. Name three Israeli policies which are "like Apartheid South Africa."

"Those same American Jews form the vanguard of the forces aligned against Euro-Americans having for themselves anything resembling what Jews have for themselves in Israel, even in the intellectual or spiritual senses."

For starters, please name 3 prominent American Jews who are members of this "vanguard."



Silver said...

"Lol, more nonsense. Name three Israeli policies which are "like Apartheid South Africa."

I'll name one, the administration of Southwest Africa (today Namibia), upon which South Africa imposed its segregation policies. There is much in common with Israel's administration of the West Bank and its imposition of neo-segregationist policy on the local population. Although if you wanted to argue that Israel has treated that local population far more harshly than South Africa ever treated Namibian blacks I would concede the point.

sabril said...

"The problem is that whenever we do the same things that the Israelis do, we get accused of being racists"

Yes, Israel is never accused of racism. :rolleyes:

Silver said...

These are fun:

In order to prove she's a Jew
The girl knew at once what she'd do:
She'd shriek and she'd hiss...
But, alack, what was this?
A DNA test and her lies were seen through!

Anonymous said...

There are differences between Israel and South Africa.

Your post is very informative and instructive. It shows that no people, culture, nation or country ever stays still - the change in political attitudes is perpetual and the difficulty that arises is in preserving a country while all these destructive trends are at work. Your description of whole neighbourhoods in Tel Aviv being filled with "sub-saharan Africans" could have been said about any city in Europe, North America or Australia. And that is sad.

Please keep posting and do not let a few resentful comments from a minority on this site deter you. What is nice is a diversity of opinion (the one diversity that the left absolutely wants to destroy at all costs).

Anonymous said...

"I'll name one, the administration of Southwest Africa (today Namibia), upon which South Africa imposed its segregation policies. There is much in common with Israel's administration of the West Bank "

And what exactly is "in common"?

Svigor said...

"The problem is that whenever we do the same things that the Israelis do, we get accused of being racists"

Yes, Israel is never accused of racism. :rolleyes:


Bait and switch :rolleyes:

Jews don't get accused of being racists, even though they're warm and toasty in bed with their ethnic brothers, the Israelis, and their Apartheid scheme. Everyone's too busy accusing European peoples of racism on the off chance they might harbor secret desires to do for themselves what Jews do for themselves in Israel. With Jews leading the chorus.

There are differences between Israel and South Africa. The Palestinians want to destroy the state and drive the Israeli Jews into the sea.

The Israelis have done everything they can (get away with) to encourage that sentiment (giving fundie Muzzies a leg up over secular Muzzies, for example). I suppose if our press had been controlled by rightists and whitists during the snivel rights era, and we'd set loose a couple hundred Bull Connors onto blacks, and clamped down on them, we could be whinging about how blacks want to destroy us, and therefore no accomodation can be reached, bla bla bla.

The Palestinians were certainly not treated justly in the establishment of Israel and Jordan, but enough of them have held onto an uncompromising eliminationist program that negotiation has proven near futile. You don't want all of those Israelis in the U.S., the Europeans and Arabs don't want their respective former diasporas back, so you might as well consider Israel around for at least the intermediate term. The Israelis see it that way, and they are going to defend themselves from annihilation.

Oh, please. The Israelis can just withdraw, remove their illegal colonies, and leave the Palestinians to their own devices. Where's the need for negotiation?

Annihilation, my arse. The only things that can annihilate Israeli Jewry are the things American Jewry foist on us; democracy, tolerance, diversity, fraternity, equality, universal enfranchisement, etc. And I'm not talking violent annihilation, either; I'm talking the sort of annihilation that American Jewry pushes for us.

Svigor said...

You also neglect to consider that the border fence and "concentration camp" in the desert are rearguard actions, the former to reduce proven risk of terrorist attacks

We could set blacks up in Bantustans and drive the proven risk of terrorist attacks through the roof, too, if we really wanted to.

Whole neighborhoods of Tel Aviv and environs are now populated by sub-Saharan Africans.

Good. Until Israeli Jewry starts moving American Jewry to the right, I hope the entire territory of Israel is turned sub-Saharan African.

For a minute country like that with a tenuous majority and hold on the land, that degree of illegal immigration is an immediate threat.

Oh, please. Israel's got plenty more room for high-IQ immigrants from China and India. Enough to take over the entire gov't and high tech industry, and run it far more effectively, in fact. America's absorbing millions of immigrants from the third world, and the Jews here just keep pushing for more.

Lastly, younger non-Orthodox American Jews are less ethnocentric than their parents and grandparents. But they have also been indoctrinated to accept political correctness, rather as young white gentiles have. I expect that they will be less attached to Israel, or at least more critical of hardline Israeli government policy, once they come into their own. I also think that they will be more open to nobless oblige, although the beneficiaries will be politically correct.

I have no sympathy for you guys. You're always talking about the doom that's going to start, any day now. My people have been under the slo-mo steam roller for generations now.

How do you measure such association "on a group level"? Because there are a lot of American Jews who are indifferent to Israel.

See "organized Jewry." Where you think all those organized Jews come from? A bacon factory?

Lol, more nonsense. Name three Israeli policies which are "like Apartheid South Africa."

Lol, name three scenarios in which you think I'll name three things for you, before hell freezes over.

Svigor said...

Hey, how come Israel doesn't have to let in smart, hard-working Chinese and Indians? That's what Jews insist upon for America, but they ignore the issue for Israel. No Chins or Inds blowing up pizza parlors in Israel, so what gives?

Security's no excuse there. No "annihilation" bloody shirt-waving to be had there. Just racism.

Svigor said...

Please keep posting and do not let a few resentful comments from a minority on this site deter you. What is nice is a diversity of opinion (the one diversity that the left absolutely wants to destroy at all costs).

Seconded. I prefer working the heavy bag.

Silver said...

"And what exactly is "in common"?"

Give it up man. If you expect them to yield something, you too must yield something. And I'm not talking about Pallies here. It's just the way it is. If I thought about it for a thousand years I could think no differently.

Anonymous said...

Ever since the days of Reconstruction, there have been public and private efforts to bribe mulattoes and whites into pretending to be "black" and improve the Negro's racial resume. Now those blackmail efforts (affirmative action, race-based scholarships, etc.) have added Hispanics.

sabril said...

"Jews don't get accused of being racists"

So you are denying that Israel is regularly and prominently accused of racism? Seriously?

"Lol, name three scenarios in which you think I'll name three things for you, before hell freezes over."

No thanks . . . . I did not seriously expect you to actually back up your claim. So much easier to just assert conclusions.

"Give it up man. If you expect them to yield something, you too must yield something"

I'm more than happy to back up my claims. If I asserted that the policies of Country X are similar to the policies of Country Y, I would normally, upon request, give specific concrete examples.

But that's because my conclusions are primarily based on facts and logic -- not emotion.

Really?!?! said...

JUDAISM IS NOT A RACE, IT IS A RELIGION!! BUDDHISM, CHRISTIANITY, ISLAM, HINDU, SHINTO, PAGAN, ETC., ALL RELIGIONS!!! NOT RACES!! I have apparently stumbled upon an anti-Semitic website that has comments from people who are completely talking out of their asses. Par for the course. You all probably use Fox News for all of your information.

Anonymous said...

"JUDAISM IS NOT A RACE"

True, but it's a religion of which most members (almost all members, in fact) share substantial common ancestry, much more so than the other groups you mention. In the case of Ashkenazi Jews, much, much more.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Ambacti said...

>>Slavs are probably not the best genetic stock to contribute to a nation


>There are these and those kinds of Slavs.


Also, Klitschkos are Jews.

>>such as a diminutive Anthony Weiner like Ashkenazi patrolling side by side with a massive Vitali Klitschko clone.