March 22, 2014

Gessen in Slate: "Bombing Moscow does not seem to be an option"

Masha Gessen, former head of the U.S. government's Radio Liberty office in Moscow, writes in Slate:
Crimea Is Putin’s Revenge 
On March 24, 1999, the U.S. bombed Kosovo. Putin has been planning his payback ever since.
On March 24, 1999, Russian Prime Minister Yevgeny Primakov was on his way to Washington when he got word that NATO had begun bombing Kosovo. He ordered his plane turned around. A few hours later, he landed in a Moscow that was reeling from the insult of not being consulted. Russians had only a vague idea of what Kosovo was but a very strong concept of Serbia being a land of fellow Eastern Orthodox Slavs and of Yugoslavia being a rightful part of Moscow's sphere of influence.

There was that incident involving Serbia in 1914.
Not being consulted—or even, apparently, warned—sent the very clear message that the U.S. had decided it now presided over a unipolar world. There was no longer even the pretense of recognizing Russia's fading-superpower status: President Bill Clinton had chosen not to wait the few hours it would have taken for Primakov to land in Washington, allowing him to save face by at least pretending to have been in on the conversation. 
From this point on, Russian President Boris Yeltsin's administration, already weak and embattled, would be unable to justify its friendly, perennially de-escalating posture toward the West. Anti-American feelings ran so high you would have thought the U.S. were bombing Russia.

Kind of like how Americans didn't much appreciate England being bombed in 1940 or Australia being bombed in 1941.
... The mood I found in Belgrade matched Moscow's perfectly. The country was mobilizing in support of its nationalist leader, Slobodan Milosevic. The few groups and people who continued to oppose him grew more marginalized and embattled by the day. They also grew increasingly paranoid, which paralyzed them. A daily concert in the center of town was literally drumming up support for the war effort, which had acquired the proud status of a defense effort—against the Americans, no less. ... 

This bizarre outburst of anti-Americanism apparently being related to Americans bombing their country for 78 days.
... In August, Yeltsin anointed as his successor, a virtual unknown named Vladimir Putin. Within a few weeks, Putin became spectacularly popular by launching a new war in Chechnya. Politicians formerly known as liberals praised the Russian army for its performance there; one said it was “regaining its dignity.” He did not mention Kosovo, but he was referring to the general sense of humiliation that had stayed with Russians since the spring. 
In December 1999, Putin became acting president, and the following March, he was elected to the office. Over the course of the following 14 years, he nurtured in the Russian public a sense of nostalgia for the Soviet Union and especially for the fear it inspired in the rest of the world. In 2008, Russia invaded the former Soviet republic of Georgia and effectively annexed part of its territory. And now it has done the same with Ukraine. This time Putin mentioned Kosovo. Indeed, in his speech to parliament on Tuesday, he made it very clear that by annexing Crimea he had avenged Russia for what had happened with Kosovo. 
“It was our Western partners who created the precedent; they did it themselves, with their own hands, as it were, in a situation that was totally analogous to the Crimean situation, by recognizing Kosovo's secession from Serbia as legitimate,” said Putin. ... 
This raises three questions. First, if Putin thinks he is paying the West back for Kosovo, why has he waited so long to strike? Second, what could the United States have done differently to avoid setting off this long and frightening chain reaction? And finally, what can the United States do now? 
In retrospect, the long wait makes perfect sense. Once Putin held power in Russia, he never planned to cede it, so he had all the time in the world. Two of Putin's key character traits are vengefulness and opportunism. He relishes his grudges and finds motivation in them: He has enjoyed holding the bombing of Yugoslavia against the United States all these years—and knowing he would strike back some day. ...
Could the United States and its allies have undertaken anything other than military intervention to resolve the Kosovo crisis? In fact, they did. After the bombing campaign, which strengthened support for Milosevic and weakened his opponents, the U.S. poured cash into rebuilding the Serbian opposition. The funding was contingent on the disparate opposition groups agreeing to work together and attending regular coordination meetings held in Budapest, Hungary, and run by people whom participants understood to represent the State Department.

That's pretty interesting. The Wikipedia article on the subject doesn't mention anything about American involvement in the overthrow of Milosevic, but I presume Ms. Gessen knows of what she speaks.
The plan for the anti-Milosevic revolution was worked out in these meetings down to the smallest detail, including where the leaders of each of the 18 participating political organizations would be if mass protests broke out in Belgrade. They did, in October 2000, and Milosevic didn't seem to know what hit him. 

In other words, the U.S. government hit him.
Could a plan like that have been carried out without the NATO bombing campaign? Could Milosevic have been removed sooner without the bombing? I think so. On the other hand, would he have succeeded in killing and displacing many more people in Kosovo before being deposed, if it hadn't been for the NATO intervention? This is an impossible question to answer. What we do know is that Yugoslavia's wars were very much one man's wars,

They were?

Granted, I remember back when Milosevic was the New Hitler of the hour. But fighting over the breakup of Yugoslavia had been predicted in the West long before anybody had heard of Milosevic -- for example, in British general John Hackman's 1978 bestseller The Third World War, WWIII starts with a fight in breakaway Yugoslav Slovenia in 1985 that both the Soviets and the U.S. Marines intervene in.
and it was the removal of that man from power, not the bombing, that finally ended them. Russia's wars are, similarly, Putin's wars. 
It is also impossible to know whether Putin would have happened to Russia if it had not been for the bombing of Yugoslavia. I believe he would not have. But now that he has been in power for more than 14 years and is planning to stay forever, what should the United States do? Bombing Moscow does not seem to be an option.

Keep that in mind: "Bombing Moscow does not seem to be an option." Airstrikes on Moscow can't be part of America's Plan A. It's just not an option. At present. And nuking Russia down to melted glass isn't even part of Plan B. Yet. (However, it should be noted, just for the record, that it's still only the beginning of Spring so that leaves plenty of time to invade Russia and conquer Moscow before winter sets in. It's March 22, not June 22.)
But helping the Russian opposition in the same committed, involved, and even meddling manner as the U.S. once helped the Serbian opposition should be. Putin already believes the U.S. State Department is backing the few protest activists left in Moscow—and is punishing the activists for it.

In other words, nudge nudge, wink wink, the U.S. State Department is backing the few protest activists left in Moscow. Gessen and Putin seem to be on the same page when it comes to their understanding of How These Things Work (they're just not on the same side).

Look, I don't really know anything about these Color Revolutions. But I do have decent reading comprehension. And this former U.S. government official, who seems to be omnipresent in the U.S. media, is, when read carefully, being fairly blatant.

On the other hand, I presume Gessen is not financially disinterested. She's been on the U.S. government payroll before, so it's in her bank account's interest to advocate more U.S. taxpayer spending on a Color Revolution in Moscow. But the concept of "disinterestedness" is now considered too boring to remember.
There are many differences between Putin today and Milosevic 15 years ago, all of which boil down to the fact that Putin is a lot stronger and harder to remove—all the more reason for the U.S. to put its best minds to work on helping Russians accomplish just this. It may be our only chance of righting the course of history. 

In other words, pay Masha Gessen to wage World War G.
Masha Gessen is a Russian-American journalist who is the author of Words Will Break Cement: The Passion of Pussy Riot and co-editor of Gay Propaganda: Russian Love Stories.
   
Personally, I find the idea of risking A Land War in Europe by trying to destabilize Russia unappealing, but that just shows that I'm a wacko extremist, unlike the highly respectable Ms. Gessen.
      

222 comments:

1 – 200 of 222   Newer›   Newest»
Orthodox said...

Suggestion for Mr. Putin. Fund Southern Nationalists and support the secession of American states.

reiner Tor said...

Fund Southern Nationalists and support the secession of American states.

I was previously afraid of Russians funding Mexicans and Mexican secessionists and their equivalents elsewhere. But now that I keep thinking about it, what keeps the US ticking, especially the US military ticking, is white redneck guys. If somehow they could organize them against the system, they would be a formidable force to reckon with - at the very least making US ability to wage wars on behalf of the multi-kulti elite questionable.

Anonymous said...

There is a genuine opposition to Putin, nationalists like Navalny. This will undoubtedly undermine them and the nationalists aren't the opposition I imagine they have in mind. Khardovsky, Berezovsky, Kasporov, the riot people are reviled.

AMac said...

Steve, this is one of the scarier articles you've written.

In an earlier post, you quoted the wise and foreboding words of Czarist minister Sergei Witte from 1914.

What a contrast to the reckless bombast of US Government apparatchiks Masha and Vickie.

Anonymous said...

Suggestion for Mr. Putin. Fund Southern Nationalists and support the secession of American states.

They have to gain a little credibility first.For example,by taking political control of a state.

SFG said...

"Fund Southern Nationalists and support the secession of American states."

Cute. Putin's not dumb (at all). He wants to build Russia up, and starting a nuclear war with the USA is not the way to do that. He's been carefully, carefully plotting and probing to see how much he can get away with, and I think he's done pretty well. (I'd give him a B+, which I'm sure he will be thrilled about. ;) )

Gessen...do you have any suggestions for persons of partial Semitic ancestry who are really, really annoyed at their relatives? It's not as if AIPAC is going to listen to one guy with no money.

Scheissherr said...

"I was previously afraid of Russians funding Mexicans and Mexican secessionists and their equivalents elsewhere. But now that I keep thinking about it, what keeps the US ticking, especially the US military ticking, is white redneck guys. If somehow they could organize them against the system, they would be a formidable force to reckon with - at the very least making US ability to wage wars on behalf of the multi-kulti elite questionable."

True about the military, though the blue states aren't as useless as conservatives like to claim-- they're net contributors to the national treasury, for example. Hollywood and Silicon Valley make a lot of dough for the country, and our stupid movies are, ironically, one of the things around the world people actually enjoy. You'd also lose MIT, Cal Tech, and a lot of our best technical minds.

Also, the last thing you ever want to see is the USA split in two. Once we're no longer a hyperpower we'll have plenty of outside powers funding one side or the other and messing around in our politics. You have no idea how lucky we are in terms of strategic position--the neocons can waste a few trillions in an idiot war, but there's nobody who can really challenge the territorial integrity of the continental 48. Once you have a CSA and a USA, though, we can have the EU, Russia, and China playing one off against the other.

Anonymous said...

"And nuking Russia down to melted glass isn't even part of Plan B. Yet."

"Masha Gessen is a Russian-American journalist who is the author of Words Will Break Cement: The Passion of Pussy Riot and co-editor of Gay Propaganda: Russian Love Stories."

If you've read Dante, you'd know it was fitting that the end of humanity would come at the hands of the Sodomites.

reiner Tor said...

Once we're no longer a hyperpower we'll have plenty of outside powers funding one side or the other and messing around in our politics.

So instead of a monopoly for AIPAC you would have a free market for lobby groups?

Steve Sailer said...

"Also, the last thing you ever want to see is the USA split in two. Once we're no longer a hyperpower we'll have plenty of outside powers funding one side or the other and messing around in our politics. You have no idea how lucky we are in terms of strategic position--the neocons can waste a few trillions in an idiot war, but there's nobody who can really challenge the territorial integrity of the continental 48. Once you have a CSA and a USA, though, we can have the EU, Russia, and China playing one off against the other."

That's the subtext of the Gettysburg Address.

reiner Tor said...

@SFG

Putin's not dumb (at all). He wants to build Russia up, and starting a nuclear war with the USA

But it was not about starting a nuclear war. It was about financing Southern Nationalist movements inside the US. How would that be an act of war, when funding P. Riot is not considered an act of war? Or maybe Putin could cut a deal, the West not financing PR and Putin not financing SN... or something like that.

Anonymous said...

Suggestion for Mr. Putin. Fund Southern Nationalists and support the secession of American states.

The spoils of a Russia/China victory in World War G would be Alaska to Russia and Hawaiian independence with a Chinese naval base at Pearl. Those are good places to start lobbying, Mr. Putin.

Anonymous said...

But it was not about starting a nuclear war. It was about financing Southern Nationalist movements inside the US.

If we are into blue-sky thinking here, why not Russia/China funding North American secessionist movements along ethnic/cultural lines? Reconfigure North America into English, French and Spanish states along the pre-1763 colonial model. Parts of the US and Canada would form a Greater Mexico and Greater Quebec.

Chicago said...

The gay activist James Kirchick of a few threads ago was also employed by Radio Liberty as well as this Gessen freako. That place must have become a gay hangout of sorts. It's the US government along with the media that's pushing the gay agenda. It comes from the top down; it isn't a grass roots movement at all. The vast majority of people don't care to persecute anyone but aren't on board with the whole agenda pushed by the gay fascists.

Anonymous said...

"Two of Putin's key character traits are vengefulness and opportunism."

Methinks the Ashkenazi doth project too much.

Titus Didius Tacitus said...

reiner Tor: "Or maybe Putin could cut a deal, the West not financing PR and Putin not financing SN... or something like that."

Russia already had a deal: to allow Germany to reunify, with the proviso that there could be no eastward expansion of NATO.

There have been many other deals, including the EU-brokered agreement of the 21st of February in Ukraine.

These deals end the same way.

Anonymous said...

RE: Putin supporting Southern Nationalists,

A worse than useless gesture. Southern nationalism is deader than dead in the USA. The only people who advocate it are non-entities.

RE: Putin supporting Mexican Irredentists,

Somewhat more plausible. Mexico, after all, is right next door. However, the overwhelming bulk of the Mexican-American population shows no interest in it. One supposes that, deep down, they realize that their standard of living would take a substantial hit.For that matter, look at Puerto Rico. Even they don't want to be independent.

RE: Putin supporting Black Nationalists,

Again, the Black community has little stomach for such schemes. They can look at the dire example of Detroit.....

doombuggy said...

Steve, this is one of the scarier articles you've written.

Yes. Quite disturbing to hire (elect etc.) people to run your country and find out that they are vandalizing the place.

Anonymous said...

The plan for the anti-Milosevic revolution was worked out in these meetings down to the smallest detail, including where the leaders of each of the 18 participating political organizations would be if mass protests broke out in Belgrade.

So are we really to believe this fellow Yarosh just showed up out of nowhere and became the key shock troop leader of the Ukrainian revolution based on 23 years of writing letters begging for checks to the Ukrainian diaspora?

We are to believe there was no plan in Ukraine with the $5 billion that was spent and the government that was named over the phone a month before the overthrow?

Anonymous said...

Eugene Girin is angry because bombing Lvov is not an option, while Masha Gessen and all the other Jewish pundits in America are frustrated because bombing Moscow is not an option.

But a compromise is so simple! America should bomb both Lvov and Moscow, crush both Putin and "the brown revolution".

5371 said...

It was only because Milosevic had surrendered Kosovo that the US could overthrow him. Even Gessen is probably not too stupid to understand that.

mansizedtarget said...

This chick is a Jewish dyke. It's ridiculous they put her in charge of the US radio in Moscow considering existing Russian prejudices and conspiracy thinking and, frankly, why do we even still have such a station? It would be like putting Mumia abu Jamal in charge of an anti-conservative radio station designed to persuade conservatives! She's a Putin hater and lib and I read her book about Putin. He frankly comes across as a little more vain and greedy than I otherwise thought (and I found her accounts of that believable), but, as in this column, his beefs and gripes are predictable and legitimate.

Of all the stupid things neocons say, this idea that "THEY only understand power" when applied to Arabs, Russians, and pretty much everyone they don't like is incredibly stupid. It's obvious one of the main driving forces in history is humiliation and the desire for pride, and that letting people save face does a lot to prevent the nursing of nationalist grudges.

Our foreign policy is run by bellicose people who do not care a fig for those in the foxhole and don't care about peace and don't care about white Christian people.

Anonymous said...

Did Sailer provide Gaddafi with SSFL, or Sailer Strategy for Libya?

Cozy up to Zio-neocons and he will gain world security.

It sure worked brilliantly.

Anonymous said...

There are many differences between Putin today and Milosevic 15 years ago, all of which boil down to the fact that Putin is a lot stronger and harder to remove—all the more reason for the U.S. to put its best minds to work on helping Russians accomplish just this. It may be our only chance of righting the course of history.

It seems like these folks never consider that the Russians might be looking at the US the same way, and wondering what can be done to effect regime change there by supporting American regime dissidents like all of us here?

Over the course of my politically aware life since 1988, I have become much more pessimistic about American politics. Its not just that there is now so little hope of anyone against the Washington consensus ever coming to power (Reagan in 1980 was such a person, but he was quickly wrapped up and put under control by the permanent regime/deep state), its that American politics is now blatantly dynastic. Democrats are rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of Hillary Clinton in 2016, and Republicans talk openly of a third Bush presidency. The jokes about Chelsea and George P. Bush running in 2028 are actually slightly serious.

Each election does nothing but bring back the same group of clowns to power in the parts of the administration that really count - Defense, State, NSA, CIA, Executive Office - the rest of the power structure is cynically manipulated to create policies financially beneficial to the business interests of the American oligarchs, (er ... Forbes 400 Billionaires) who backed the winning candidate.

With the passing years since 1992 it is becoming more and more difficult to remember what a free America was like, without political correctness and speech codes, discrimination laws, omnipresent militarized police forces, spying eyes in the sky on every corner, autistic electronics addiction, lawyers and lawsuits everywhere, and the innundation of mass immigration. When we had a real free press where some journalists actually investigated goings on and got published in mainstream sources where the people might read all about it.

Some of the explorations my dad and I used to do on weekends (visiting and exploring rail yards and the airport, oil refineries, port cranes and other now "secure" sites) if I tried to pull the same thing today would land me in jail and my kids in child protective services.

We now live in a Police-Security State run by the omnipresent "Cathedral" that makes sure we all know what we are supposed to think and do, and where you can and will be fired for thinking, saying, or doing the wrong thing at work. Its enough to make you wish Putin would victoriously invade the world, just to shake things up a little.

Anonymous said...

looks like ayn rand.

and nuland looks like pauline kael.

same personalities.

Tom-in-VA said...

I found the Wikipedia pages for Otpor! (the Serbian resistance movement) and CANVAS, the group they later founded, to be very useful in understanding Putin's motives.

Rifleman said...

Masha Gessen is a Jewish lesbian journalist who is the author of...

Fixed it.

Hunsdon said...

I am so glad that our foreign policy in regards to Russia is being so thoroughly influenced by gay* Ashkenazi Jews.

* while recognizing that, as our host puts it, lesbians aren't gay.

Hunsdon said...

Steve: If there was any justice in the world, the term would be "sailerization" or "sailering" and not "fisking." You have a real skill at eviscerating (there's that word again!) an argument in very few words.

Rifleman said...

And now for the visual... ...you were warned.

Hunsdon said...

Gessen wrote: There are many differences between Putin today and Milosevic 15 years ago, all of which boil down to the fact that Putin is a lot stronger and harder to remove—all the more reason for the U.S. to put its best minds to work on helping Russians accomplish just this.

Hunsdon said: One of those differences is control over the second largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world---all the more reason for the U.S. to avoid inflammatory rhetoric.

I'd hate to see the world end in nuclear fire over "some damn fool thing in the Crimean peninsula."

Hunsdon said...

SFG said: Gessen...do you have any suggestions for persons of partial Semitic ancestry who are really, really annoyed at their relatives?

Hunsdon said: Write, argue, convince. Discuss. At the risk of perpetuating a vicious anti-Semitic canard, rumor has it that Jews have great gifts of gab.

I think it would be beneficial, nay, tremendously beneficial, to hear other Jewish voices saying, "Not in my name, Masha."

Anonymous said...

Suggestion for Mr. Putin. Fund Southern Nationalists and support the secession of American states.

Better suggestion for Putin.

How about he fund Jesse Jackson and La Raza to go after Silicon Valley so they hire more blacks and Mestizos as computer geniuses. Like, 39 percent of their workforce should be Mestizo.

Then he can just sit back and watch the fun.

Anonymous said...

To judge a man, judge him by his enemies. Who are the most rabid, frocious and determined enemies of Putin who attack, attack and attack him every day in every possible way? - Why it's 'The Economist' magazine, it's the BBC, it's The New York Post etc. As 'The Economist' and the BBC seem to be the alpha attack dogs in the never-ending Putin baiting , (in their case it should be never ending masturbating), you can be damned sure that the real power behind the hatred is the British government working in cahoots with top dicks at the US State Dept.
Some little voice somewhere tells me it's the way Putin kicked out BP from the disadvantageous Oligarch/Yeltsin/Looter?CityofLondon BP-TNK deal that seems to be behind the racor. As Mark Felt said "follow the money" - THAT wise saw willnever, ever let you down and methinks a little of nasty little plutocrats were burnt by Putin - and they have never, ever forgiven him since so through their hired whores ie 'The Economist' and the BBC, they've been bad-mouthing him ever since. Never get between an Englishman and a money-making opportunity - if so, hell-fire and damnation are sure to be on there way.
Since the advent of that useless, worthless, gutless, round-faced, round headed tomfool, Gorbachev, the Ango-Saxons have got used to the idea that the Russkies are little more than lap-dog whores to be bullied, humiliated, kicked around, cheated, swindled, looted and made fools out of. After mega-klutz, walking, talking, breathing, shitting catastrophe Gorbachev came an even bigger, more useless bastard, Yeltsin.
Boris Yeltsin - a man who always reminded me of a pimp/brothel keeper who whored out his ageing mom for a few bucks plus a bottle of whisky - such was the man's character, caliber and morality. Not just immoral and evil but galactically stupid to boot. What a man! What a leader! What a pile of shit! - nowhere in god's green earth, not even amongst the cannibals of the Congo would you find such a creature. No wonder the Germans were always contemptuous of the Russians.
Now, the Anglo-Saxons being used to having dick-smoking hired bum-boys as Russky leaders grew too arrogant and to full of themselves - they started to overplay their hand and began to think that Russian leaders were natural bum-boys as a matter of course. In a word they started to over-play their hand. To them, that a man who actually had a sense of pride in Russia would actual become leader was unthinkable, so used were they to having catamites who went straight into full bum-boy ass-in-the-air lordosis whenever the words ' western investment will dry up' were uttered, (the only thing that did 'dry-up' were the catamites rear passages).
in their typical public(private) school/ Texas beef-fed arrogance, the Anglo-Saxons thought and still think that if they snap their fingers, Russia will come to heel.
But, alas, they've actually meat a man with a backbone.

Steve Sailer said...

London hasn't exactly run out of billionaires during the Putin Era.

Currently, Russians put up with Putin's cronies enriching themselves because the pie as a whole has been expanding, so the average Russian is a lot better off than during the Yeltsin era. But there will eventually be a downturn and the pie will shrink. Putin's popularity in Russia will come crashing down at that point.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpBOlO-CCgQ

Defining feature of SWPL.

Men grow-trim beards to appear even more effeminate.

Anonymous said...

Pretty much everything I've read by Gessen filters Russia through either a Jewish lens or a gay lens and in some of those cases, her command of basic verifiable facts leaves something to be desired. On a related note, has anyone ever done a thorough analysis what percentage of talking heads and so-called experts on Russia are Jews from the former Soviet Union? It seems high, even by the lofty standards of the Chosen. At one point, that was understandable, because between the first wave of Jackson-Vanek immigrants and the fall of the Soviet Union, pretty much the only people people in the west with any Soviet experience were Jews. But in 2014, it just seems a little odd, given how many ethnic Russians (including numerous academics) are living in the west, and don't have any particular axe to grind with the Russian people. I actually once stumbled across a video on youtube, and it was Julia Ioffe and Andrei Schleifer being interviewed about Russia. Yes, Andrei freakin' Schleifer!

I mean, wouldn't you find it a little odd if the only media experts on Sri Lanka were Sri Lankan Tamils?

Anonymous said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masha_Gessen#Personal_life
"Gessen has two children: a boy Vova and a girl Yolka; both are US citizens. Vova was born in 1997 in Russia and was adopted by her from an orphanage in Kaliningrad. Yolka was born to her in the US in 2001. In 2004 she was married in the US to Svetlana Generalova, a Russian citizen who was also involved in the LGBT movement in Moscow.[3][12] She is however opposed to the existence of marriage at all, and advocates for the fundamental change of the institution of marriage, including her three children being legally able to have five parents. [13]"

[13] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJrmBocx0o4
Lesbian Speaks Openly About Eradicating Marriage
"Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there — because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie. The institution of marriage is going to change and it should change, and again I don't think it should exist."

-meh

Anonymous said...

I think Putin has already fired up his useful idiots.

There's not much chance that Europe will become independent of Russian gas and oil in any useful time frame.

Dave Pinsen said...

Maybe James Blunt can serenade Gessen.

Anonymous said...

"Gessen and Putin seem to be on the same page when it comes to their understanding of How These Things Work (they're just not on the same side)."

Steve, Gessen and you are not on the same page when it comes to understanding the nature of the Cold War. Believe me, she's right on the facts. The USSR represented the conservative, traditionalist side in it. That's Ms. Gessen rooted for the West to win. That's why she describes Putin as a throwback to the bad old (i.e. Soviet) days, that's why she and those like her say that Putin wants to turn back the clock.

Anonymous said...

But there will eventually be a downturn and the pie will shrink. Putin's popularity in Russia will come crashing down at that point.

Meanwhile, in the good ol' USA, the pie has been shrinking for citizens, so they had to import lots of impoverished people to give the impression that the pie is still growing for some people.

Anonymous said...

"Two of Putin's key character traits are vengefulness and opportunism. He relishes his grudges and finds motivation in them..."

Obvious projection. Tens of millions of Russians were incensed when Putin released the murderous thief Khodorkovsky early. He had since turned up at the Maidan. I WISH Putin hated Russia's enemies as much as they hate Russia.

Anonymous said...

I just read "Deathride-Hitler vs Stalin:The Easter Front,1941-1945". By John Mosier. It's excellent. I'm sure That the Army has been so degraded by queer ism/feminism that I might be uniquely qualified to lead our forces East. The taking of Moscow is my primary target, along with the Donets Basin and the isolation of St Petersburg. Volgograd can wait.

5371 said...

But there will eventually be a downturn and the pie will shrink. Putin's popularity in Russia will come crashing down at that point.

Yes, Russians are renowned for changing their government at even the slightest little hint of hardship, economic or otherwise.

Anonymous said...

"Once you have a CSA and a USA, though, we can have the EU, Russia, and China playing one off against the other."

The powers that be in the US are already doing all the internal playing off that's physically possible. Racialism for everyone but whites, the importation of Asian elites and blue collar Mestizos, etc.

Anonymous said...

But it was not about starting a nuclear war. It was about financing Southern Nationalist movements inside the US. How would that be an act of war, when funding P. Riot is not considered an act of war?

Have you guys run out of sane topics of conversation?

Anonymous said...

"But it was not about starting a nuclear war. It was about financing Southern Nationalist movements inside the US. How would that be an act of war, when funding P. Riot is not considered an act of war? Or maybe Putin could cut a deal, the West not financing PR and Putin not financing SN... or something like that."

It would not be possible to uphold such a deal. People like Gessen live to spew the stuff they spew. They wouldn't be able to stop themselves even if they thought that stopping was in their interests. This stuff fulfills an emotional need of theirs. Rationalizations for it come after the fact.

Anonymous said...

You'll notice all the anti-Russian, Putin haters can never argue facts with people like Steve. Its all snark, and "you and Putin must be Gay lovers" nonsense.

Most of our public discourse from the Left and interventionists these days seems to consist of Snark, smears, Straw-man arguments, pointing and shrieking "you can't say that, and of course name-calling. Pretty sad.

Anonymous said...

Steve,
As I've said before Russian prosperity is more or less a function of Chinese prosperity. So long as China keeps on expanding at around 8% per annum - and tens of thousands of Chinese daily become new car owners for the first time, Russia should do fine.
The monster that the globalists created in China - mainly by gutting western industry and throwing tens of millions of westerners out of work and into the poorhouse - has come back to bite the globalists on the ass in the most unexpected way.
Of course, the globalists care not one whit about the pauperization of western (former) workers but there is a bitter swet irony that it is the former communist powers turned capitalist who have put the neocons in a tizzy.


Anonymous said...

This time Putin mentioned Kosovo. Indeed, in his speech to parliament on Tuesday, he made it very clear that by annexing Crimea he had avenged Russia for what had happened with Kosovo.

Memo to Vlad: invading a neighboring Slavic country hardly counts as revenge. The Americans bombed a country in the Slavosphere and forced it to part with its territory. Revenge would be, for example: bombing London to force the UK into giving up the Falklands to Argentina (or Gibraltar to Spain.)

Anonymous said...

Gessen in Slate: "Bombing Moscow does not seem to be an option"

What she means is: I would like someone to bomb Moscow but no one in DC takes a dyke seriously.

Anonymous said...

Democrats are rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of Hillary Clinton in 2016, and Republicans talk openly of a third Bush presidency. The jokes about Chelsea and George P. Bush running in 2028 are actually slightly serious.

In a future version of English, "Clinton" and "Bush" will become titles of the supreme leadership, like "Caesar" did in the Roman Empire.

"George Hillary XV, Supreme Bush and Clinton of the Free World, President and Vice-President of the United States the Americas, Chief Justice of the Supreme, World and International Courts of Justice, Editor-in-Chief of the Seven Leading Media Properties..."

Anonymous said...

"Currently, Russians put up with Putin's cronies enriching themselves because the pie as a whole has been expanding..."

Steve, it's not just that. Putin militarily crushed Chechen terrorists, bloodlessly recovered the Crimea, stopped and reversed the centrifugal forces that acted on Russia in the Gorbachev/Yeltsin years, increased the birth rate by paying women to have more children, pushed back against sexual deviancy, etc. From the Russian perspective, he's been doing good on many different fronts.

I'm not an economist, but how could the economic pie expand without a decrease in thievery? Under Yeltsin all the oil would have been stolen.

Russia's debt to GDP ratio is 0.12 or thereabouts. Would thieves voluntarily forego an opportunity to finance their thieving with money borrowed by taxpayers? The ungotten-into debt is like an untouched piece of cheese lying on the kitchen floor. The rats are scared to come out.

Do you think that the international financial system wouldn't love to lend Russia some money? Only one party is hurt by national debt - the progeny of the average taxpayer. Bankers and short-term oriented elites within the country benefit from debt. I think that any time you see a country that isn't using all the credit that's available to it, any time you see untouched cheese on the kitchen floor, you can conclude that the country's decision makers care about the progeny of the average taxpayer, that they have scared away the rats and aren't rats themselves.

Anonymous said...

"In other words, pay Masha Gessen to wage World War G."

It's not about money with Gessen and those like her. It's primal, tribal stuff. She'd be doing this for free.

FirkinRidiculous said...

Maybe we don't need to go back as far as 1999:

On the night of November 22, 2004, then-Russian president - now premier - Vladimir Putin watched the television news in his dacha near Moscow. People who were with Putin that night report his anger and disbelief at the unfolding "Orange" revolution in Ukraine. "They lied to me," Putin said bitterly of the United States. "I'll never trust them again." The Russians still can't fathom why the West threw over a potential strategic alliance for Ukraine. They underestimate the stupidity of the West.

A prescient article from 2008

Mahatma Ghandi said...

Or Sei Lankan Jews for that matter.

Mahatma Ghandi said...

All those "Englishmen" ahem. Yes. Like General Edward Spears (née Spiers)

Factories in the newly minted Czechoslovakia and Poland. Curiously he served as British-French Liason officer in both ww1 and ww2 and he was a bullish supporter of Churchill and critic of Chamberlain.

Most will never have heard of the colorful man.

Jerry said...

"Russia already had a deal: to allow Germany to reunify, with the proviso that there could be no eastward expansion of NATO."

--Russia had no standing whatsoever in respect to the sovereign decisions of the German people, east and west, and thus there was no such deal. In 1990 the Soviet Russian empire ended, and with it ended its influence over the countries it controlled. What is shocking to me is:

1. there is neither guilt nor shame for the Russians at what they have done with East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Croatia, etc...

2. there is apparently no recognition for some on the right such as Pat Buchanan or Steve Sailer that such shame or guilt should be expected.

I hate what America has become as much as any commenter here, but there is no moral equivalence between America and Russia, either historically or at the present time. To miss this point is to be blind with the peculiar and maddening insularity of mere Americans. The calculus that "my enemy's enemy is my friend" is not enough here. The Israelis are not sympatico, but the Muslims really are crazy idiots. American society is chaos, but the Japanese really are robotic perverts, etc. etc.

Of course I've been to Pakistan, Iran, Syria... I've lived in Japan...

I'd suffer not to have this blog for three months but it'd be worth it if Mr. Sailer were to use that time to take a trip around the world. There might be some good blogging from the road, too.

Eric Rasmusen said...

You might enjoy the second question on my game theory PhD class midterm, which is about the Crimea:

http://www.rasmusen.org/g751/tests/2014-test2answers.doc

The bottom line: Putin knows what he's doing.

Anonymous said...

OT but related - one day you really should do a post about just how ridden with homosexuals the NY/Washington/Hollywood axis is.

Male homosexuals, I mean. Lesbians like Gessen are really sort of the useful idiots in a way. The true power is male homosexuals.

Their ultimate goal, well let's just say I don't want to sound too off the wall, so use your imaginations.

I'm praying that one day someone writes an undercover account about just how f*cking impossible gay men are to work with. Steve slags on lesbians a lot but in my experience, they are no where near as difficult to work with as gay men. Impossible sons of bitches, vicious, mean and bitter to a queen.

And they get their way.

Milton's Paradise said...

The country is ripe for a Cromwell or a Tudor.

Possibly even a reverse Lincoln.

Walther Model said...

Putin has probably knocked the edge off the roughness of Russian nationalism.


It's not Putin we ought to worry about. It's the next guy. Especially if we humiliate and isolate Putin.

We are awakening an angry bear.

sykes.1 said...

The real problem is that we have a ruling class that is delusional to the point of actual psychosis (McClain, Biden), ignorant of nearly everything, especially European history and arrogant beyond all sufferance. They actually do not understand the Russian position on the Crimea and don't know how the Crimea became part of the Ukraine. They also think they can treat Putin like a naughty school boy and send him to the Vice Principal's office for a spanking.

It's one thing to bitch-slap Serbia or Libya but another to try it on a major power. When we used economic sanctions to force Japan out of China, we got Pearl Harbor and the Pacific war. Push Putin hard enough and you'll get WW III with nukes.

Sheila said...

Excellent comments all. As was already said, this is one of your scarier articles. That the former nation known as the USA is run by Jews and gays and blacks with axes to grind is, rationally, almost incomprehensible. I recognize Putin is no great shining knight, but he doesn't hate his country and he does have a backbone and a certain sense of decorum. That I should totally sympathize with foreign grievances against this country strikes me, at odd moments, as vaguely amusing. What motivates me is not amusement, however. Rage, loathing, despair . . . take your pick.

Emmanuel Todd said...

The Russian population is plummeting every year. They are not so concerned about the fake way the west calculates GDP by flooding the country with migrant workers. Sure, they do have an influx of migrants but not nearly enough.

The Russians are very nearly autark. They have more raw resources than the Europeans and Americans can dream about. They are going to do just fine. Just like a frozen Australia.

Sean said...

Even if an economic downturn led to Putin being replaced by a totally democratic and gay celebrating government, loved by loud Jewish feminists, it would make no difference. States are compelled by the structure of the international system to act as Russia has done. In 2008 Bush told the Russians that he wanted Georgia and Ukraine to join NATO.

Wilhelmine Germany was, more or less, democratic and the Kaiser's closest advisors Eulenburg and Ballin were gay and Jewish respectively. Germany went to war in 1914, because Germany's relative power was weakening.

Democracies go to war for the same reason as any other state. The US overthrew Guatemala's democratically elected government and then backed a regime based on mass murder of its own population headed by Rios Montt.

Khodorkovsky was running a little Murder Inc. to deal with pesky people such as former employees who knew too much ( a couple disappeared after being kidnapped in front of their children) and rivals who sued him (car bomb). Or maybe he didn't notice all the killings such as the local mayor who was murdered a month after camping outside Khodorkovsky's company offices to publicly demand Khodorkovsky's company pay taxes.

HA said...

"Currently, Russians put up with Putin's cronies enriching themselves..."

And boy, they sure do seem to do a good job of enriching themselves. And yet, neither the Zio-Neo-con troll nor the Anglophone/homo-axis troll have yet to explain how the Jews that are pulling the strings in Washington are any more dastardly than the Jews who head up Russia’s economy (and, in a little while, whatever part of Ukrainian industry Putin manages to strip away). Is it because the Russian variant have been brought "under control" by Putin, as we are so often told? That seems a tenuous argument at best, given that we all know that the oligarchs’ associates (ahem) will be around long after Mr. President-for-Life, or whichever clown follows after him, are rotting in their graves. I would think the anti-Zio/Neo-con theorists would be the very last people to believe that once a Russian Jew is brought under control in any relationship, he forever stays under control, and nevermore wreaks any mischief or twists that relationship to his own ends.

Admittedly, consistency is not the anti-Semites’ strong suit, so maybe they never think that far ahead. (I guess there’s no better way to foil the eternal Jew than to practice short-term thinking, given that everyone knows Jews are incapable of that.) I’m likewise confused with the repeated urging to "do the opposite of whatever the Zio-Neo-cons want..." Is reverse psychology some kind of Kryptonite for Jews, or something that they are unable to see through, or manipulate to their advantage?

Observer said...

mansizedtarget: "Our foreign policy is run by bellicose people who do not care a fig for those in the foxhole and don't care about peace and don't care about white Christian people"

I agree, which is why it's long past time for white Christian people to start boycotting the military. When they stop joining up, I'll know something has seriously changed.

Anonymous said...

"Our foreign policy is run by bellicose people who do not care a fig for those in the foxhole and don't care about peace and don't care about white Christian people."

At this point, maybe the US needs to be ripped up. If that happens,
I'm not going to lift a finger to help this nation.

Mr. Anon said...

Masha Gessen wants to turn normal decent civilization upside down and set the world on fire because she is resentful at having been born an ugly dyke.

That may sound like a harsh assessment, but we should be honest about these things - the political program of a lot of people is rooted in their own mental and emotional disfigurements.

Anonymous said...

"Bombing Moscow does not seem to be an option."

I don't know if neocons are insane of just so vile they seem insane to an average person.

.

"Two of Putin's key character traits are vengefulness and opportunism. He relishes his grudges and finds motivation in them: He has enjoyed holding the bombing of Yugoslavia against the United States all these years—and knowing he would strike back some day. .."

Projection.

.

"Suggestion for Mr. Putin. Fund Southern Nationalists and support the secession of American states."

There are always divisions within any society and it doesn't take much cash to fund a few full time activists to stir things up as the neocons have proved by spreading chaos in so many countries in the last 20 years.

It's ironic that the Bolsheviks used to wage war in this stealth, subversion way and now the grand-children of the Bolsheviks are doing it to Russia.

.

"the Anglo-Saxons"

lol

It is surprising though to see the usually anti-American pro-EU faction (BBC) line up so completely with the globalist faction (Economist) ...

or actually not surprising at all.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

With the passing years since 1992 it is becoming more and more difficult to remember what a free America was like, without political correctness and speech codes, discrimination laws, omnipresent militarized police forces, spying eyes in the sky on every corner, autistic electronics addiction, lawyers and lawsuits everywhere, and the innundation of mass immigration. When we had a real free press where some journalists actually investigated goings on and got published in mainstream sources where the people might read all about it.

Some of the explorations my dad and I used to do on weekends (visiting and exploring rail yards and the airport, oil refineries, port cranes and other now "secure" sites) if I tried to pull the same thing today would land me in jail and my kids in child protective services.

We now live in a Police-Security State run by the omnipresent "Cathedral" that makes sure we all know what we are supposed to think and do, and where you can and will be fired for thinking, saying, or doing the wrong thing at work. Its enough to make you wish Putin would victoriously invade the world, just to shake things up a little."

All true. Sad to say, but this country is becoming shit.

Anonymous said...

"Steve, this is one of the scarier articles you've written."

Rightly so as well. They have no brakes and its quite possible they'll push this past the wire.

If I was the Russians or the Chinese I'd be keeping my air defense on alert for any stray airliners with a particularly deadly payload.

Anonymous said...

But there will eventually be a downturn and the pie will shrink. Putin's popularity in Russia will come crashing down at that point.

That happens here. Even popular US presidents who win second terms usually see their popularity fall before they've completed their eight years. Frankly, if Putin's popularity did not fall, I'd be worried. For that is the sign of a people that aren't ready for a democratic form of government. If Russians supported Putin no matter what, they'd be about as ready for democracy as blacks whose support for democrats will always exceed 85% come rain, snow or shine.

Anonymous said...

There's not much chance that Europe will become independent of Russian gas and oil in any useful time frame.

There is even less chance that the US will actually have gas to export to replace Russia, since we are a net importer of gas from Mexico and Canada. American production roughly equals Russian production, but Russia has around 1/3 available for export.

Anonymous said...

"Never get between an Englishman and a money-making opportunity ... the Anglo-Saxons"

I think your attitudes are about 75 years out of date. The City of London has changed just as Wall Street has. If Albion's perfidious, it's certainly not for the benefit of the English, who are now a minority in their capital city.

"Something quite remarkable happened in London in the first decade of the new millennium. The number of white British people in the capital fell by 620,000 - equivalent to the entire population of Glasgow moving out."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904


Anonymous said...

"the neocons can waste a few trillions in an idiot war, but there's nobody who can really challenge the territorial integrity of the continental 48. Once you have a CSA and a USA, though, we can have the EU, Russia, and China playing one off against the other." - said neocons were able to waste said trillions precisely because of that split. The American people are already being played off against each other.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't take Putin's help to get LNG shut down. that is simply not happening. If Europe were serious about alternative energy, I'd suggest coal.

ATBOTL said...

The neocons were fanatically in favor of bombing Christians to help Muslims take control of parts of Europe. Remember Bill Kristol's "crush Serb skulls" line?

Imagine what the Gessens of this world would say and do if the US bombed Israel over their treatment of the Palestinians.

I don't advocate such a thing, but it would fascinating to see the reaction.

Foaming at the mouth would not even begin to describe it. We would see openly genocidal rhetoric directed against any ethnic/religious group that the Gessens thought was complicit. Terrorist attacks on the US by zionist groups would be likely as well.

Never forget the crushing skulls line. It should be brought up every time Kristol's name is mentioned.

jody said...

"Also, the last thing you ever want to see is the USA split in two."

i'd welcome it today. right now.

"Once we're no longer a hyperpower we'll have plenty of outside powers funding one side or the other and messing around in our politics"

wrong. the conservatives states of america, or whatever they call themselves, won't tolerate that inside their borders.

if foreign intelligence agencies infiltrate the liberal states of america, or whatever they call themselves, it's not a big deal. the CSA expects this. heck, we're already there now, aren't we? isn't that one of the reasons to seperate? clearly, foreign interests HAVE already infiltrated the united states central government (as well as some state governments) and are steering the nation towards their aims instead of the average guy's interests.

"That's the subtext of the Gettysburg Address."

no longer relevant however. like ricardo's theory of competitive advantage, once you change the assumed variables enough, it not longer describes how things work.

Anonymous said...

"Never get between an Englishman and a money-making opportunity - if so, hell-fire and damnation are sure to be on there way.
Since the advent of that useless, worthless, gutless, round-faced, round headed tomfool, Gorbachev, the Ango-Saxons have got used to the idea that the Russkies are little more than lap-dog whores to be bullied, humiliated, kicked around, cheated, swindled, looted and made fools out of."

Clearly, Gessen is one of those dastardly WASP ultra-Calvinists!

Sequester Grundleplith said...

"The Passion of Pussy Riot" is the greatest porn movie never made.

Hunsdon said...

Gessen asked: Second, what could the United States have done differently to avoid setting off this long and frightening chain reaction?

Hunsdon said: The U.S. could have showed magnanimity in victory, not spent the last twentyfive years poking the bear, treated the "looting of Russia" as a serious matter, not bombed Serbia for 78 days, not torn up international law regarding Kosovo, and abided by the promises made to Gorbachev not to expand NATO to the East.

Crazy talk, I know.

Whiskey said...

Steve, how can you fight a war without a military?

The US has functionally, only a fraction of the military it had during Kosovo, and even less of what it had just a few years ago.

Our nuclear arsenal is basically dismantled and no longer functional, given the aging of key components and warheads (nuclear decay) and lack of testing.

Gessen and the rest believe their own BS -- that Pussy Rioters can beat military strength. Putin is acting NOW because the West is weak and disarmed and helpless. Nothing more. The idea that Putin, a man renowned for his cold-bloodness, harbors revenge fantasies over Kosovo is as rich as thinking he's a vampire. He's a Russian Imperialist autocrat, so he'll take whatever is on the table.

Putin is NOT a nationalist. He's suppressed nationalism up to this point, viewing it rightly as the only threat to his rule. Pussy Rioters get press like naked Femen idiots pulling "look at me!" attention stunts, but the Nationalists in Russia arguing for a smaller but more Russian state are the only real threats because they are the only real alternative to Russian-flavored Imperialism.

Putin is bad for Russia because his imperialism will result in Russian people being drowned in ultra-high Birthrate Central Asian Muslims who have special priveleges over Russians as part of the Imperial Dream. So far he's riding high in a frenzy of Imperialism but when Moscow is awash in half of Central Asia (where would you live? Kazakstan or Moscow?) things will be uglier.

Hunsdon said...

Anonydroid at 7:57 PM said: I mean, wouldn't you find it a little odd if the only media experts on Sri Lanka were Sri Lankan Tamils?

Hunsdon said: YES! It's like having Irish-Americans being the only media experts on England.

Hunsdon said...

Anonydroid at 9:35 AM said: Most of our public discourse from the Left and interventionists these days seems to consist of Snark, smears, Straw-man arguments, pointing and shrieking "you can't say that, and of course name-calling. Pretty sad.

Hunsdon said: We have become a fundamentally unserious people.

Hunsdon said...

Anonydroid at 9:50 AM said: In a future version of English, "Clinton" and "Bush" will become titles of the supreme leadership, like "Caesar" did in the Roman Empire.

Hunsdon said: And like the Caesers, quality will probably decline further. (How's that for scary?)

Hunsdon said...

Anonydroid at 10:33 said: It's not about money with Gessen and those like her. It's primal, tribal stuff. She'd be doing this for free.

Hunsdon said: Doing good while doing well!

Anonymous said...

Such views are surely not held uniformly across Ukraine, but among ethnic Russians, and in the heart of the former Soviet Union, a palpable anti-American sentiment is discernible -- and it is, to some extent, the product of determined efforts by Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin apparatus he controls.

Putin Stokes and Taps Russian Resentment of America and the West

Yeah, Americans are the innocent victims of that dastardly Putin. It has nothing to do with anything else.

Hunsdon said...

FirkinRidiculous referenced the 2008 article by Spengler, and quoted: "They lied to me," Putin said bitterly of the United States. "I'll never trust them again."

Hunsdon said: Damn fine link, sir.

Whiskey said...

Anon -- BP has been raked over by Obama big time, causing about 40 billion worth of asset fire sales to pay off Obama's people. And the BBC, Economist, and others LOVE Obama. The more he treats them like dirt, the more they grovel. Because ... this may shock you ... Obama is Black. And those worshiping the PC/Multiculti post-Christian cult of universality of mankind can't wait to abase themselves before a Black leader to show how much they really, really believe.

Christianity without Christ is one of the worst things the West ever came up with. And universality of mankind is the constant utopian disease afflicting high IQ peoples.

Anonymous said...

Neocons financing western decadent hedonism in other countries: Alright!

Russia financing US separatist groups who want no part of the NYC-DC-LA cultural axis: WHOA WHOA WHOA crazy talk!

Hasbara must be pulling some serious O/T lately.

Hunsdon said...

Jerry said: What is shocking to me is:
1. there is neither guilt nor shame for the Russians at what they have done with East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Croatia, etc...
2. there is apparently no recognition for some on the right such as Pat Buchanan or Steve Sailer that such shame or guilt should be expected.

Hunsdon said: Have the Poles sufficiently beaten their breast about what they did in Ukraine in the 17th century? Have the Magyars sufficiently atoned for occupying Hungary? Do the Croats mourn for Operation Storm? Do the English show shame and guilt for an Empire on which the sun never set? Do the Spanish? Do we, as Americans, show sufficient remorse for stealing a whole continent?

And, "of course," Jerry, I've been to Russia, Ukraine, what used to be Russian Turkestan, even parts of Western Europe!

Hunsdon said...

Walther Model said:
We are awakening an angry bear.

Hunsdon asked: What's the first rule of holes, again?

reiner Tor said...

@Steve:

But there will eventually be a downturn and the pie will shrink. Putin's popularity in Russia will come crashing down at that point.

There already was a downturn in around 2009, and Putin's popularity came down somewhat, but the oligarchs were suffering even more badly. The richest person in Russia at the time, Oleg Deripaska, is now something like 15th on the list, and not (or not only) because others have gotten richer. At the time I read that the Russian state bailed out some of the hardest hit oligarchs, but actually was picking up assets from them at knock-down prices. The Russian state refinanced some loans and took assets (at the then very low values) as collateral, so that it could pick up those assets when the oligarchs couldn't pay.

You might have seen how Putin tossed around Deripaska like an officer does to a private in the Russian Army, giving him a pen to sign something, and then even asking back the pen when the humiliated oligarch came back.

I'm not sure what will happen next time, but the oligarchs might not survive intact the next downturn either. At any rate, not all of them.

Jon said...

"The Russian population is plummeting every year."

No, it isn't. Russia has had positive population growth for several years now, and last year it had the first natural increase (more births than deaths) since 1991.

Russia's fertility rate, while still below replacement, is now higher than the EU and Canada, and if trends continue will soon be higher than whites in the USA.

reiner Tor said...

@sykes.1

It's one thing to bitch-slap Serbia or Libya but another to try it on a major power. When we used economic sanctions to force Japan out of China, we got Pearl Harbor and the Pacific war. Push Putin hard enough and you'll get WW III with nukes.

It sounds frightening, to say the least. Especially because it's so plausible.

Hunsdon said...

HA said: Admittedly, consistency is not the anti-Semites’ strong suit, so maybe they never think that far ahead.

Hunsdon said: You have cracked my code, HA! This whole thing, for me: the renewal of a Cold War I thought dead and buried, the prospect of the world ending in nuclear fire, it's only interesting to me because I can indulge in my anti-Semitism!

Whiskey said...

Steve, last comment and I'm done --

The idea that we would have War is a non-starter. All Obama is willing to do is a few sanctions on high profile individuals. The FT has article after article about sanctions. And how "a 21st Century solution to a 19th Century problem" is the "right thing to do."

The UK has no real military, about 40,000 in the Army, and a shell of an RAF and Royal Navy. Which the latter has fewer ships than the Belgian Coastguard. The US Navy has fewer ships than before WWI, and has cut the size of the Army in half. Obama has killed missile defense, new weapons systems, the F-22 Raptor, and put off the F-35 planned purchases. He has killed the Thunderbolt tank-killer, which destroyed Saddam's tank army, and cut Army helicopter fleet numbers.

You can't have a war without a military. The US, and Western Europe, and Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Japan are basically disarmed and helpless. So far that has worked out as potential enemies are weak and dispersed.

Putin is just taking advantage. Today the Ukraine. Tomorrow -- what? Finland? He and his people are talking about it. The Baltics? Yes his people are talking about the same thing. Poland? Yes the same logic applies, plenty of Russian-speakers there.

Since the US being a variant of Mexico and Haiti has no ability or will to project power (a Black President means basically, Haitian levels of military force) -- nations and elites who don't want to be nothing but prisoners with their assets seized for Putin and his buddies, have only one choice.

That is nuking up like crazy, as fast as possible. Good for the Nuclear Carry Out shop run by Kim Jong Un. Or Pakistan. Possibly Iran. Probably also some Israeli and French scientists and engineers seeking lucrative short-term employment in Poland, the Czech Republic, Finland, and possibly Sweden and Norway.

My biggest beef with Putin is that he's an old-style Multicultural imperialist. His vision of a Restored Russian Empire is so strong he'll happily swamp Russia with Central Asian Muslims to keep things going. He could have been a great man by articulating a coherent vision of related European nationalism -- each nation for its own historic peoples, not grabbing off chunks to be looted, and allied against a hostile Third World seeking to move there and run the place.

Instead he chose to be a supersized John Gotti.

Anonymous said...

I think you should do a novelization of World War G.

Dave Pinsen said...

"--Russia had no standing whatsoever in respect to the sovereign decisions of the German people, east and west, and thus there was no such deal."

Russia had hundreds of thousands of troops in East Germany. IIRC, the Germans paid them to leave.

Anonymous said...

Someone has said:

""Two of Putin's key character traits are vengefulness and opportunism."

Methinks the Ashkenazi doth project too much."

Simple, short and brilliant.

Anonymous said...

Here are your policy options:

Kristol's neocon policy: "Crush Serb skulls"

Gessen's liberal policy: "Crush Russian skulls"

Girin's paleocon policy: "Crush Galician skulls"

General Michael Rose said...

I never connected the Jewish voices for war on Serbia at the time. In retrospect it's obvious. But, to be fair the Muslims were on the same side.

reiner Tor said...

@ATBOTL:

Do you have any source for the "crush Serbian skulls" statement? I would be happy to bring it up any time William Kristol (or neocons in general) are brought up, but only if I could back up my claim so that it wouldn't backfire.

Anonymous said...

"Have you guys run out of sane topics of conversation?"

Yeah. Neocons are trying to start WWIII for realz.

.

"The Russians still can't fathom why the West threw over a potential strategic alliance for Ukraine. They underestimate the stupidity of the West."

"People like Gessen live to spew the stuff they spew. They wouldn't be able to stop themselves even if they thought that stopping was in their interests. This stuff fulfills an emotional need of theirs."

Agree. It's not so much a conspiracy as a psychological disorder.

.

"The powers that be in the US are already doing all the internal playing off that's physically possible. Racialism for everyone but whites, the importation of Asian elites and blue collar Mestizos, etc."

That's the weak spot then.

AmericanGoy said...

Here's a very good article in Der Spiegel (don't worry, it's in English) about the guarantees and the wheeling and dealing made between the West (read - TPTB) and Russia regarding NATO's expansion into the East.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html

Anonymous said...

Admittedly, consistency is not the anti-Semites’ strong suit

Well we are learning fast my hasbarat friend, really though its comical to see you write that. Neo-connery is a shambles of lies, manipulation, double standards - all of that.

Anonymous said...

If US elites were concerned about divisive ethnic politics they wouldnt be importing millions of Mexicans, Asians and Africans now would they.

Putin doesnt need to lift a finger as the US and west destroy themselves.

Anonymous said...

--Russia had no standing whatsoever in respect to the sovereign decisions of the German people, east and west, and thus there was no such deal. In 1990 the Soviet Russian empire ended, and with it ended its influence over the countries it controlled.

In matters of realpolitik it really, really doesn't pay to go all legalistic. And in any case, the allies of the Second World War had standing in questions involving their former zones of occupation, seeing that neither Germany was fully sovereign either legally or practically.

Anonymous said...

http://scroll.in/article/why-preventing-cheating-in-indias-board-exams-is-a-national-security-crisis?id=658509

David said...

"However, it should be noted, just for the record, that it's still only the beginning of Spring so that leaves plenty of time to invade Russia and conquer Moscow before winter sets in."

Steve, don't give these maniacs ideas.

Anonymous said...

http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/5412/full

Putin is new kaiser. russes are huns.

Anonymous said...

One analogy for Galicians trying to Galicinize all of the Ukraine would be Quebec trying to Frenchify all of Canada with Russian and Chinese financial and military support. Religiously, linguistically and in terms of loyalties during WWII Galicia is the thing that doesn't belong in the Rus picture. Linguistically at least Quebec is an outlier in North America. Russia recovering the Crimea would be like the US freeing half of BC from hypothetical French clutches.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and Quebec's backwardness relative to the rest of Canada fits the analogy too.

Henry Canaday said...

Ed Rowny says, “Putin’s a thief,” but wants sanctions, wariness and a strong defense, not war or over-clever games to remove the Russian leader.

Ed Rowny, remember him? Well, he's alive and discussed his latest book at the Kosciuszko Foundation today.

Rowny remembers a bit of the 20th Century. He toured Europe after his junior year in college and dropped in on the 1936 Berlin Olympics, which persuaded him that he would probably be revisiting Europe soon, in uniform.

Which he did. By the time of Korea, he was on General MacArthur’s staff, one of three officers who planned the Inchon Landing. He remembers the arguments and MacArthur’s comments on the cautious Joint Chiefs of Staff, who initially opposed the landings.

By Viet Nam, Rowny was a brigadier general and getting in his own argument with the Joint Chiefs. He persuaded them that helicopters should be armed to attack adversaries, not just serve for troop transport and medical evacuation. Sounds a bit obvious today, but apparently it was not in the early 1960s.

By 1979, Rowny was a lieutenant general, a rank which he resigned to testify against President Carter’s nuclear arms agreement with the Soviets. That made him Reagan’s top nuclear negotiator and advisor during a long campaign that turned out rather well for us.

Yes, he remembers all of this, plus a lot more, like how he got Paderewski’s corpse back to Poland after 50 years, in detail and with anecdotes. And if you ask politely, he will pull his harmonica out of this pocket and play a few tunes for you.

He’s only 97, but the guy has learned some things. I’m sticking with Rowny.

Anonymous said...

"I never connected the Jewish voices for war on Serbia at the time."

Richard Holbrooke, who played a large part in that war, was ethnically Jewish.

Anonymous said...

Patterns:

White conservatives are hospitable towards Jews, but Jews are hostile towards white conservatives.

Putin's Russia is respectful towards Israel and Jews, but Jews are contemptuous toward Putin and Russia.

We don't see Putin aiding Palestinians against Israel, but Jews use homos and Ukrainians against Russia.

Anonymous said...

"People like Gessen live to spew the stuff they spew. They wouldn't be able to stop themselves even if they thought that stopping was in their interests. This stuff fulfills an emotional need of theirs."

Agree. It's not so much a conspiracy as a psychological disorder.


As Jayman constantly reminds us, all behavioral traits are heritable:

http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/all-human-behavioral-traits-are-heritable/


Anonymous said...

Admittedly, consistency is not the anti-Semites’ strong suit.

That's funny, because to hear you lot talk, being consistently opposed to Jewish influence is the "anti-Semite's" primary identifying characteristic.

Anonymous said...

The best strategy is for white conservatives and Russians to unite as a world force.

Unfortunately, both adhere to Sailer's "pay protection money to the Zio-neocons" strategy so that maybe 'right-wing' Jews will persuade Liberal Jews to go easier on white cons and Russia.

Yeah, Netanhayu and Russian Jews are really working hard to persuade globalist Liberal Jews to be nicer to Russia.

Yeah, neocons sure did a commendable job in persuading Liberal Jews to be nicer to white conservatives.

Funny how Putin/Russia and white American cons, instead of forging an alliance, try so hard to win the approval of the very people who mean them the most harm.

Jews gave us Obama and 'gay marriage'. Yet, we must praise and serve them?

Anonymous said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_holidays

They got cooler holidays.

We got MLK day and 'gay' day.

Anonymous said...

"Putin is just taking advantage. Today the Ukraine. Tomorrow -- what? Finland?... "

Great stuff Whiskey. It is theoretically possible Putin might invade any country.

As far as the US having no military... Well, you seem to have a lot of time on your hands. Get you and your buds to suit up. The rest of us are tired with armchair generals. (Bush/Cheney, I am looking at you!)

Can we get War Nerd in a room with these guys? I'd pay for that.

Anonymous said...

White conservatives are hospitable towards Jews, but Jews are hostile towards white conservatives.

They even made Orthodox Jewish paleocon Paul Gottfried an honorary Gentile and ruined his academic career. Just ask Paul if you don't believe me.

Anonymous said...

http://weaselzippers.us/180351-kenya-legalizes-polygamy-without-consent-of-wife/

"marriage equality" African style

Anonymous said...

http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/5412/full

Putin is new kaiser. russes are huns.


That's of course the major neocon rag in Britain.


Hunsdon said...

@AmericanGoy, re: BBC Documentary.

Georgain "NSA": We have conclusive proof that the Russians invaded! We just, umm, misfiled it. For a month. And didn't mention it, for a month, until we found it.

Hunsdon said...

Anonydroid at 6:22 PM said: Unfortunately, both adhere to Sailer's "pay protection money to the Zio-neocons" strategy . . . .

Hunsdon asked: Do you have any proof of this Sailer strategy you keep mocking? Can you show us a quote from our host that supports this? Or is it some miasmic fever dream you came up with?

Anonymous said...

"Unfortunately, both adhere to Sailer's "pay protection money to the Zio-neocons" strategy . . "

"Do you have any proof of this Sailer strategy you keep mocking?"

ttp://takimag.com/article/an_israel_russia_alliance_steve_sailer/print#axzz2wkMcVgUI

Surreal stuff. I laughed so hard. I'm still laughing.

The Black Hand said...

Holbrooke, it sounded so damned Anglo.
I was only 19 or so at the time.
Clark's " no room for homogenous European nations" was a chilling signal in retrospect.

Immigrant from former USSR said...

I did not have a chance to read all the comments.
However, authoress "Masha Gessen" gave at least one particular point wrong.
*
US did _not_ bomb Kosovo. It bombed other parts of Serbia, including capital city Belgrad.

Anonymous said...

"This chick is a Jewish dyke. It's ridiculous they put her in charge of the US radio in Moscow considering existing Russian prejudices and conspiracy thinking..."

Have you forgotten who's POTUS? He owes certain groups big time...and on top of it, he doesn't really give a damn is my best hunch.

Abe Fauxman said...

Richard Holbrooke, who played a large part in that war, was ethnically Jewish.

Mr. Sailer, why do you allow vicious anti-Semitic canards about Jews being warmongers, on your extremist militant blog?

You can not ignore it was Catholic Episcopalian Madeleine Albright who pushed through the bombing of Yugoslavia.

Today, she is still fondly remembered by Serbs.

Anonymous said...

"They got cooler holidays."

It's interesting you mentioned this because today the new Ukrainian government got rid of Victory Day (May 9th), which commemorated the victory of USSR over Germany. They want to replace it with "a day of mourning for the victims of Soviet occupation". I guess German occupation doesn't need commemorating anymore. Those guys were just a bunch of tourists passing through.

Non-Banderite Ukrainians, almost all of whose families lost someone during the German invasion and the struggle to end it, will see that as another gesture of contempt.

Anonymous said...

Putin is bad for Russia because his imperialism will result in Russian people being drowned in ultra-high Birthrate Central Asian Muslims who have special priveleges over Russians as part of the Imperial Dream.

And what do you think is happening to Euros in the USA? The American imperialism that you have pushed, and continue to do so, is having the effect you described.

On several blogs recently you have voiced your disapproval of Obama on Putin. What is he supposed to do, risk a devastating war? And what is the point of waging such a war when the scenario you outline for Russian imperialism is actually happening to Americans now?

If you really were the patriot you claim, you'd emulate Buchanan. Instead your loyalties lie with a nation not your own, and thus, what happens to America is of little concern.

Ben Elton said...

Apparently they are now confiscating firearms in Ukraine. I do not see how any self respecting conservative in the US can line up behind the globalized McKrainians.

Anonymous said...

OK, I just read up a bit on it. They haven't gotten rid of Victory Day yet. They're planning to though. Their minister of culture (how come they're still using Soviet titles?) is working on a bill that would ban it. They want to introduce it in their legislature "as soon as possible". They want to commemorate Bandera on the day he pretended to proclaim Ukrainian independence in 1941 (the Germans were really in charge) because his birthday inconveniently fell on January 1st.

It just occurred to me that Galicians have not only usurped the name of a Spanish province, but that their national hero also used the Spanish word for flag as his surname. And their third-largest town is called Ivano-Frankivsk in honor of a writer named Ivan Franko!

These are all honest-to-goodness coincidences by the way. Which makes them all the weirder.

Ben Elton said...

If it walks like a Canard and quacks like a Canard

Anonymous said...

He has enjoyed holding the bombing of Yugoslavia against the United States all these years—and knowing he would strike back some day.

Putin sounds like the sort who hold this grudge against America, "you wouldn't let us into your country clubs, so we are going to let everyone into your country".

Anonymous said...

OK, Franco was from Galicia. And he was a fascist, like his contemporary Bandera, and I'm assuming that he loved the Spanish flag (bandera).

Anonymous said...

"Do you have any proof of this Sailer strategy you keep mocking?"

I think it should be called Sailer's Paulie strategy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPtjyqgZAUk

Remember the restaurant owner in GOODFELLAS? Gangster Tommy wouldn't leave him alone. So, for protection, he pandered to Paulie the gangster for protection from Tommy.
How did that turn out?

I grew up with Jews since grammar school. I still have Jewish contacts. The Liberal ones are love baiting 'white guilt' and 'Christian guilt'.
The 'rightwing' Jews think the GOP should fully embrace 'gay marriage' and open borders and stop being so 'racist'. The 'right-wing' Jews barely tolerate the McCains and Palins of the world and ONLY because they're are reliable running dogs of Zionism.

But mention people like Sailer and Putin to these 'right-wing' Jews, and they seethe with venom.

I think Sailer knows better consciously, but subconsciously, he came of age when it was fashionable for cons to be Judeophilic. So, just like Job clung to God no matter how badly he got whupped, something in Sailer clings to the hope that if we don't lose faith in Jews, it will turn out alright.

This is irrational religious-thinking. We're gonna end up like the horse in Animal Farm.

We're gonna end up like the general in Burnt by the Sun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_97mo12YGo

Time to wake up.

Know the nature of the enemy.

Richwine, Sobran, Sailer, Putin, etc etc.

All got the same treatment.

Anonymous said...

Last comment on this, I swear:

It turns out that Stepan Bandera was born in what's now the Ivano-Frankivsk oblast of Ukraine, about a dozen miles from Ivano-Frankivsk itself. However, Ivano-Frankivsk was only named in honor of Galician nationalist writer Ivan Franko in 1962, after Bandera's death, by the Moskali (Muscovites) whom Bandera hated so much. Which is kind of ironic.

I'm going to guess that the Galician-born Francisco Franco WOULD have heard about the Galician nationalist Stepan Bandera ("flag" to Franco), but unfortunately neither Bandera nor Franko would have known that Bandera hailed from the immediate vicinity of Ivano-Frankivsk.

Anonymous said...

"Putin is bad for Russia because his imperialism will result in Russian people being drowned in ultra-high Birthrate Central Asian Muslims who have special priveleges over Russians as part of the Imperial Dream."

Putin wants alliances and business relations with Central Asia and China. He doesn't want merger with them.

Anonymous said...

Seems lesbians are not such good mothers after all.

Anonymous said...

Masha Gessen's exile in America is actually a win for Russia.

As bad as plotting an all-out war against her native country is for Russians, it's still probably better than the kind of Marxist campaign against civilization she'd be participating had she stayed over there.

Anonymous said...

http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/03/defeating-fascism-before-its-too-late/

Always blame fascists.

Anonymous said...

The CNN comments thread is dominated by people who really seem to want a fight with Russia. Are these views typical in the US?

Anonymous said...

It's interesting you mentioned this because today the new Ukrainian government got rid of Victory Day (May 9th), which commemorated the victory of USSR over Germany. They want to replace it with "a day of mourning for the victims of Soviet occupation".

This Jewish-NS coalition govt can't last long. Especially when 99.99% of the money and other resources come from the side of US/EU/Oligarchs.

MC said...

Is Pussy Riot on the State Dept. payroll?

reiner Tor said...

They haven't gotten rid of Victory Day yet. They're planning to though. Their minister of culture (how come they're still using Soviet titles?) is working on a bill that would ban it. They want to introduce it in their legislature "as soon as possible". They want to commemorate Bandera on the day he pretended to proclaim Ukrainian independence in 1941 (the Germans were really in charge) because his birthday inconveniently fell on January 1st.

Gotta admit, I now have some sympathy for these Ukrainians. What I'd really like to get out of this West-Russia conflict is Russians supporting White Nationalism in the West, and neocons supporting Banderism and Russian nationalism (of the "smaller Russia, but more Russian" type) in exchange. Of course the worst outcome (Putin supporting Mexicans and even more multi-kulti, and neocons supporting P. Riot) is way more likely.

reiner Tor said...

You can't have a war without a military. The US, and Western Europe, and Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Japan are basically disarmed and helpless.

The Russian military is also the smallest in decades, and although their capabilities have recovered some since the late 1990s, they are still dismal. The old equipment inherited from the USSR keeps rotting, and new purchases are proceeding slowly and are very expensive.

Until we can see a real war (I hope not), we can't tell for sure, but American equipment is probably much better, at least for a short campaign. Russian equipment seems to need less maintenance and is working better under less than ideal conditions, but in the first few weeks (when the bulk of the losses would happen) they would be worse, and that's what would matter.

Also, Russian training levels are below that of the Americans. American and British pilots are still around 180 or sometimes even 200 flying hours per year, whereas Russian pilots are in the neighborhood of maybe 120. Their army is still resisting change, some years ago commissioned officers were as much as a third of the total number of personnel, I think now they managed to decrease it a lot.

Jerry said...

Jerry said: What is shocking to me is:
1. there is neither guilt nor shame for the Russians at what they have done with East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Croatia, etc...
2. there is apparently no recognition for some on the right such as Pat Buchanan or Steve Sailer that such shame or guilt should be expected.

"Hunsdon said: Have the Poles sufficiently beaten their breast about what they did in Ukraine in the 17th century? Have the Magyars sufficiently atoned for occupying Hungary? Do the Croats mourn for Operation Storm? Do the English show shame and guilt for an Empire on which the sun never set? Do the Spanish? Do we, as Americans, show sufficient remorse for stealing a whole continent?"

--There is a slight difference between what your distant predecessors did and what you as a society have done ten or twenty years ago. Comparing like to like, Germany and Japan have acknowledged and attempted to atone, as have post-dictatorship countries such as Spain or Chile (even while Pinochet and Franco may have done more good than harm). I am not sure what the Poles did in Ukraine in the 17th century besides the fact that it was then part of Poland. Magyars have been in Hungary for a thousand years (and a lot of that time under Islamic and then Austrian rule). Many Indians, including high officials and academics, acknowledge that colonial rule had been a net positive for India (e.g., unifying the country for the first time).

Nazi symbols are outlawed and beyond the pale in Germany. The hammer and sickle, tokens of an equally murderous and evil regime, are a not uncommon sight in Russia. Lenin and even Stalin continue to have public admirers. This sight inspires a disdain and a contempt that are stronger than one's sympathy for Russia's (often self-inflicted) historical suffering.

Crimea rightfully belongs to Russia, but to make a virtue of the way Putin's been going about getting it back is either ignorant or twisted and masochistic.

Anonymous said...

Abe, but of course the Albright's had to convert. You need to be Catholic to get a position in State. It's like the South Boston Fire Department down there.

Gilbert P

reiner Tor said...

Comparing like to like, Germany and Japan have acknowledged and attempted to atone

Germany will basically cease to exist if they don't stop this self-flagellation. I really hope they will stop this totally harmful culture of the holocaust they have.

The Japanese said sorry, and then went about their business. Most Japanese don't quite consider it shameful or feel the slightest amount of guilt over what they did back before 1945.

There is also a huge difference that Germans and Japanese were forced out of the countries they occupied, and were then thoroughly defeated. The scale of the German defeat is unprecedented in the modern history of Europe, they barely had a government and military high command when they finally capitulated - in other words, they quite literally fought to the last man and last bullet. On the other hand, the Russians themselves gave up their empire.

If someone gives up such a huge empire of his own volition, then I guess one of the understandings of the case is that they won't have to say sorry. Many countries also cannot complain too much. Hungary and Slovakia participated in Barbarossa and later campaigns totally unprovoked (sure, there was not much of a choice with the Germans dominating Europe, but then we can go complaining to the Germans), Romanians lost some territories in 1940, most of which they gained at the expense of Mother Russia back in 1918 when Russians were in disarray - well, there must be a payback time. And then Romania sent a lot of troops against the Soviets, and they also wanted to grab further lands from them. No surprise the Soviets came back. The Czechs were liberated by the Soviets - yes, they were then occupied in 1968, but I think the outcome was still much better for the Czechs than anything they would have had had the Germans won. Poland also attacked Soviet Russia in 1920, payback time also applies to them. And in the end they were still much better off than had the Germans won. The only nations that were attacked and occupied by the Soviets unprovoked are the Baltic peoples (including the Finns).

Hunsdon said...

Jerry, thanks for engaging!

Jerry said: There is a slight difference between what your distant predecessors did and what you as a society have done ten or twenty years ago.

Hunsdon said: By that standard the only people the Russians should be apologizing to are the Chechens. Ten or twenty years ago the Russians were withdrawing from Eastern Europe.

Jerry said: I am not sure what the Poles did in Ukraine in the 17th century besides the fact that it was then part of Poland.

Hunsdon said: I can assure you that it was heavy-handed colonization at least equivalent to what the Russians did with the Warsaw Pact.

Jerry: Nazi symbols are outlawed and beyond the pale in Germany.

Hunsdon: Interesting use of beyond the pale. Also, did you notice the "walking wheel" symbols prominently displayed by the Maidan rioters on their shields? Of ancient Slavic origin, but mighty close to the hakenkreuz.

And the Japanese remain mighty touchy about issues in China. The Rape of Nanking is pretty much a taboo subject----as far as I can tell.

Jerry: Crimea rightfully belongs to Russia, but to make a virtue of the way Putin's been going about getting it back is either ignorant or twisted and masochistic.

Hunsdon: I've noticed a real truncation of the story, as if everything before March 8th doesn't matter. Remember, the US decided to fund and organize regime change in Ukraine, and Putin is reacting to that.

If Putin, and Russia, had suddenly decided, during a time of peace, that "hey today's a good day to be revanchist, " I'd be in opposition as well. But that's not really the way it was played out.

And, admittedly, it's not as if the Soviet Union just decided, "Hey, let's seize Eastern Europe" one fine day, either. There was that whole "Wehrmacht" thing involved.

Anonymous said...

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/03/23/2nd-attempt-three-made-war-paul-craig-roberts/


http://youtu.be/1n03a7cLf0M

John said...


What we do know is that Yugoslavia's wars were very much one man's wars,


They were?


Well, an argument has been made.
Not that I see much of a connection between Milosevic and Putin. Even if there were, I think the key guy is Obama. I think he finds foreign affairs, foreigners themselves, basically boring, and will lose such interest in the Crimea and the Ukraine as he ever had.

Ralphie said...

On small bully boys and their golem enforcers.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2l6RnWM2tU

Anonymous said...

o/t (sort of)

http://www.brecorder.com/top-news/1-front-top-news/163923-us-could-free-israeli-spy-to-save-peace-talks-report.html

"JERUSALEM: The United States could free Jonathan Pollard, serving a life term for spying for Israel, as a way of saving deadlocked peace talks with the Palestinians, Israeli radio reported Sunday.

Citing Western diplomatic sources, the public broadcaster said officials in US President Barack Obama's administration had not ruled out freeing Pollard in exchange for a green light from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for releases of Israeli Arabs convicted of "terrorist acts"."

hanktheheretic said...

"The CNN comments thread is dominated by people who really seem to want a fight with Russia. Are these views typical in the US?"

Personally, my day to day encounters with fellow (white, college educated and young) Americans has given me the impression that they possess a distinct apathy to the whole deal. No gung-ho types about bombing the homophobic slavs, but a still alarming indifference if their representative government decides to meddle, kill, and nearly send the world into conflagration. To them, I suppose, no draft=I don't care, now let me watch my Downton Abbey.

"Nazi symbols are outlawed and beyond the pale in Germany. The hammer and sickle, tokens of an equally murderous and evil regime, are a not uncommon sight in Russia. Lenin and even Stalin continue to have public admirers. This sight inspires a disdain and a contempt that are stronger than one's sympathy for Russia's (often self-inflicted) historical suffering."

Well, it is just one of those perks you get from winning the war.

Anyways Russia, like most countries, pick and choose their histories depending on what narrative the elites like best. They love them some "great patriotic war" but I doubt their schools teach much about the collectivization that occurred only 10 years prior.

For us Yanks, I've always got the impression that our current favorite histories for mass teaching were: 1. WW2, 2. Civil War. 3. Civil Rights, in no particular order.

All of these histories can be easily taught in a way to fit today's anti-racist and philo-semitic master narrative, so its no surprise.

hanktheheretic said...

"The CNN comments thread is dominated by people who really seem to want a fight with Russia. Are these views typical in the US?"

Personally, my day to day encounters with fellow (white, college educated and young) Americans has given me the impression that they possess a distinct apathy to the whole deal. No gung-ho types about bombing the homophobic slavs, but a still alarming indifference if their representative government decides to meddle, kill, and nearly send the world into conflagration. To them, I suppose, no draft=I don't care, now let me watch my Downton Abbey.

"Nazi symbols are outlawed and beyond the pale in Germany. The hammer and sickle, tokens of an equally murderous and evil regime, are a not uncommon sight in Russia. Lenin and even Stalin continue to have public admirers. This sight inspires a disdain and a contempt that are stronger than one's sympathy for Russia's (often self-inflicted) historical suffering."

Well, it is just one of those perks you get from winning the war.

Anyways Russia, like most countries, pick and choose their histories depending on what narrative the elites like best. They love them some "great patriotic war" but I doubt their schools teach much about the collectivization that occurred only 10 years prior.

For us Yanks, I've always got the impression that our current favorite histories for mass teaching were: 1. WW2, 2. Civil War. 3. Civil Rights, in no particular order.

All of these histories can be easily taught in a way to fit today's anti-racist and philo-semitic master narrative, so its no surprise.

Mr. Anon said...

"Jerry said: What is shocking to me is:

1. there is neither guilt nor shame for the Russians at what they have done with East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Croatia, etc..."

At least the russians didn't try to engage in race-replacement in Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Hungary. It is quite likely, several years down the road, that the soviet occupation of those countries will prove to have been less damaging to their national character and ethnic make-up than did their membership in the EU.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

If you really were the patriot you claim, you'd emulate Buchanan."

"Whiskey" can't even spell "Buchanan".

Anonymous said...

"This Jewish-NS coalition govt can't last long."

There will be an election in the Ukraine on May 20th. Russian speakers in the southeast will not vote for Banderites. To them that's just other guys' nationalism. And the other guys hate them. Some of the Russian speakers would rather vote for rejoining Russia, others for autonomous status within the Ukraine. But they will not be allowed to vote for either of those things. Both the neocon puppet and the Banderite parts of the ruling coalition hate Russia. They don't want it to grow or to acquire a friendly autonomous republic within the Ukraine. So candidates advocating things that the southeastern half of the country really wants will not be allowed to run by the current regime.

Instead the southeast will be presented with two choices: 1) Banderites 2) the tools of the oligarchs and the neocons (Yatsenyuk, Klitschko, Timoshenko or some combination of them). Unfortunately southeasterners will vote for the tools. The center of the country will probably mostly vote for the tools as well. With only western Ukraine in their corner Banderites will lose. Once firmly in power, the tools will clamp down on Banderites. This will be bloody.

Banderites will probably go underground and start blowing things up in the IRA/ETA fashion. The main difference between Britain and Spain of the 1980s and the Ukraine of the next 5 to 10 years is that the Ukraine will have a much worse economy. It's already looted out to the max. So Banderites would probably have more support from the civilian population in Galicia than IRA and ETA guys did in their respective areas all those years ago. At the same time southeastern Russian speakers will continue to agitate for autonomy or rejoining Russia.

I guess the ultimate outcome depends on how bad the economy will get.

Anonymous said...

Until we can see a real war (I hope not), we can't tell for sure, but American equipment is probably much better, at least for a short campaign. Russian equipment seems to need less maintenance and is working better under less than ideal conditions, but in the first few weeks (when the bulk of the losses would happen) they would be worse, and that's what would matter.

And, of course, Diversity Über Alles.

HA said...

"being consistently opposed to Jewish influence is the "anti-Semite's" primary identifying characteristic."


That, and seeing how many permutations of Zio/Neo-Con/banking-mafia can be crammed into a single post. But that’s not what I was getting at. The inconsistency comes from not realizing that they’re again playing into the Jews’ hands (to put it in their terms). Even as the anti-Semites insist that everything bad that happened in the last century in Russia (and of course, elsewhere) was the work of Jews, Jews, Jews, a quarter-Jew, and Jews, (I think there’s also a possibly-Jewish Georgian in there, too, it’s hard to keep track), we’re now supposed to believe that siding with Russia is a good thing, even though the Jews there seem just as and empowered as they ever were, and given the long-term, will stay that way long after Putin is gone.

I totally get the dislike of Nuland’s and Gessaen’s games. I share that dislike. What I don’t see is why supporting another round of Jew/oligarch mischief (again, putting it in their terms), is suddenly a moral imperative. "Enemy-of-my-enemy" is an old strategy, but (as Steve himself has frequently pointed out) is fraught with catastrophe. You can denounce the neocons and their meddling propaganda without falling for the equally ridiculous knee-slappers that paid Putin-stooges are tossing about regarding Russia as a bulwark of family values, or their curious blind spot regarding what support for Russia means and meant vis-à-vis countries like Poland, Hungary, and yes, Ukraine.

Anonymous said...

"there is neither guilt nor shame for the Russians at what they have done with East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Croatia, etc..."

USSR would never have held them if Nazi Germany didn't attack USSR first. Accident of history. After USSR took them, they kept them as buffer against NATO.

Anonymous said...

"The CNN comments thread is dominated by people who really seem to want a fight with Russia. Are these views typical in the US?"

USA is now you-ass-gay.

Anonymous said...

No, it isn't. Russia has had positive population growth for several years now, and last year it had the first natural increase (more births than deaths) since 1991.

How much of this growth is ethnic Russians and how much is Muslim minorities? The cynical answer is that it's mostly minorities, but is that true?

Anonymous said...

In a future version of English, "Clinton" and "Bush" will become titles of the supreme leadership, like "Caesar" did in the Roman Empire.

And in a thousand years or so, a Chinese Edward Gibbon will write the history of the West's decline and fall.

David said...

No one ever mentions Caspian Sea oil. Why?

Clearly the US and EU want to drink that milkshake as demand for oil grows and available supply effectively dwindles.

Any large powers in the way have to be subordinated. No use parsing the Insane Clown Posse front that the West is leading with as an intimidation tactic (though the usual suspects are deeply committed to it).

It's about the oil. The latest unpleasantness is part of a long-term strategy for resource (energy) access.

Anyway, that's my hypothesis.

It certainly is instructive to deplore Pussy Riot, but let's keep our eyes on the ball, so to speak.

Anonymous said...

"The CNN comments thread is dominated by people who really seem to want a fight with Russia. Are these views typical in the US?"

No.

Hunsdon said...

So we have Masha Gessen---an aspirant to inner party membership, if not a member of the inner party---openly advocating for regime change in Moscow through subtle means, since "(b)ombing Moscow does not seem to be an option."

Of course, in the West we have freedom of speech, but what are the optics on this'n?

If Putin is already steamed at America, what message is this sending?

American negotiation has, in the last few years, had a certain Roman characte: more diktat than negotiation. Do we all remember Syria, and how the US and Assad would sit down and negotiate how Assad would leave power? (That's not really negotiation, now is it?)

Hubris really should be one of the cardinal sins.

Svigor said...

Words Will Break Cement

Gessen is an ANTI-SEMITE!!! fueling ANTI-SEMITIC!!! stereotypes.

ATBOTL said...

"Do you have any source for the "crush Serbian skulls" statement? I would be happy to bring it up any time William Kristol (or neocons in general) are brought up, but only if I could back up my claim so that it wouldn't backfire."

It was in a NYT editorial page column. I remember reading it while eating breakfast and being shocked at open, violent, genocidal racism being expressed towards white Christian people. Normally, neocons are more subtle.

I tried to find the article, but only came up with people quoting it from memory and some discussion of the fact that it seems to have gone down the memory hole. During the debate in the run up to the attack, Kristol and others were explicitly linking Serbians to "racists" in America and any other manifestation of white consciousness. The argument was that we should crush those Serb racists the same way we should crush people in America who object to open borders or AIPAC controlling foreign policy. This was happening on the heels of the Pat Buchanan lead insurgency in the GOP, the militia movement, Ruby Ridge and general populist discontent among grass roots conservatives. I still don't understand how the GOPe/Conservatism Inc. was able to make all that stuff go way for a decade. It seemed to start with the obsessive Clinton hatred, focusing on the man rather than the policies, then mindless cheerleading for Bush.

I will look harder to dig up the original article when I have time.

"The CNN comments thread is dominated by people who really seem to want a fight with Russia. Are these views typical in the US?"


No. No one watches CNN anymore.


"Russia's fertility rate, while still below replacement, is now higher than the EU and Canada, and if trends continue will soon be higher than whites in the USA."


It already is. The white birth rate has plummeted since 2008 and is now at levels lower than many European countries.

"I never connected the Jewish voices for war on Serbia at the time. In retrospect it's obvious. But, to be fair the Muslims were on the same side."

At the time, it was very, very noticeable. Most of the political and media figures who were strongly pushing for war on the Serbs were Jewish. Serbs were being compared to Nazis, Confederates, militias and the KKK in America etc. it was all very reminiscent of things we've seen since.

The difference was that the internet had not grown to the point where ordinary people could easily access non-establishment sources of information.

Hunsdon said...

Why are the US and Russia enemies?

When I was a child, the reason the US and the Soviet Union were enemies was fairly simple: it was an ideological thing. The US was capitalist, the Soviet Union was communist, and godless communist at that, and godless communist expansionist at that. We were for Liberty, they were for Order.

In 1750, England was a constitutional monarchy, with the unfettered right of kings fettered by the Magna Carta and the memory of Cromwell. France was, by way of comparison, an absolute monarchy or a monarchy with elements of aristocracy. Fifty years on, their situations had reversed: France was the "liberal" state, England the "conservative."

Their enmity continued, without regard for the change in circumstances. Of course, a thousand years of hatred will do that to you. Residual Norman claims to France had thrown a kink into Anglo-French relations; all those wars, all those great battles.

By way of comparison, US-Russian antagonism is really of a quite short duration. The Soviet Union reigned for a long man's lifetime (Lazar Kaganovich outlived the state he so diligently served), and for a goodly piece of that time, there was no real antagonism between the Soviet Union and America.

America doesn't really remember the intervention at the end of WW1 (although the Russians do), and direct antagonism with the Soviet Union didn't really arise until after the end of WWII. Even then we managed to avoid a hot war, the kind of fighting and killing that tends to cement your really good hatreds.

Russia is no longer the atheistic godless expansionist communist monolith we were taught to fear for so long. By many measures, we have indeed swapped places. Russia now has Orthodox priests taking airborne training, so Russian soldiers can carry the Word of God with them when they are forward deployed.

So why the hatred?

It's not as if we have some ancient ethnic grudge against the Russians, like that between the English and the French.

Right?

Anonymous said...

Completely off topic, but I think this story has many elements that are the focus of this blog in an easily digestible and interesting form. I recently attended the Illinois High School basketball state championships. I was surprised when the 1A (basically the class for small schools often from small towns) semifinal I was watching featured a team with a multitude of huge players from central Africa. The team is Mooseheart, and after the game I went to the internet and learned about the issue.

These issues surrounding the Mooseheart basketball team include HBD, sports, immigration; all the iSteve issues in an engaging form (sports, not IQ or economics etc.).

Anyway here is link to a youtube video that does a good job of introducing one to the issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJTc-tcZjKg

The dunk at 3:00 was one of the most amazing athletic plays I have seen and is worth the viewing. The guy behind me asked, "Did I just see that?"

Bill Buckner (not the real Bill Buckner)

Anonymous said...

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/what-jobs-have-the-most-psychopaths/

One of the defining characteristics of a psychopath is that he lies without remorse or conscience.

This explains why the media are as they are.

But another kind of psychopath speaks the truth or with honesty without considerations of repercussions. Lying is natural as part of the evolutionary strategy of survival.

Thus, normal people lie but only when they have to, and they also feel guilt for having lied.

In contrast, many psychopaths lie but feel no guilt. They only care about gaining advantages.

But some psychopaths don't speak honestly even when they shouldn't(at least in respect to one's career prospects).

Maybe the mass media are filled with psychopaths who speak dishonestly without remorse, and much of the blogosphere is filled with psychopaths who speak honestly without thought of consequences.

This isn't to say Sailer is a psychopath but consider how far he could have gone in mass media had he not spoken honestly about blacks letting good times roll.
But the part of his brains that should have been sending warning signals obviously wasn't working.

Since the mass media prefer psychopathic commitment to lies than psychopathic commitment to truth, maybe that explains why we are where we are.

Svigor said...

Russia already had a deal: to allow Germany to reunify, with the proviso that there could be no eastward expansion of NATO.

There have been many other deals, including the EU-brokered agreement of the 21st of February in Ukraine.

These deals end the same way.


Sorry, still not buying the "gentleman's agreement" thing. Nobody's that naive, especially not the Russians. If they wanted a real agreement, they'd have put it in writing. If all they could get was a "gentlemen's agreement," it means they couldn't secure a real agreement.

Of all the stupid things neocons say, this idea that "THEY only understand power" when applied to Arabs, Russians, and pretty much everyone they don't like is incredibly stupid.

Jews never really got that Freud memo about projection. The only thing THEY understand is power.

looks like ayn rand.

and nuland looks like pauline kael.

same personalities.


When you're playing from such a small (genetic) deck, you're bound to see the same cards more frequently.

On a related note, has anyone ever done a thorough analysis what percentage of talking heads and so-called experts on Russia are Jews from the former Soviet Union? It seems high, even by the lofty standards of the Chosen.

Nope. My thorough analysis has arrived at the point of saying (correctly) "here comes the Jew" when the media introduce a "Russia expert," but before they say any names.


1. there is neither guilt nor shame for the Russians at what they have done with East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Croatia, etc...

2. there is apparently no recognition for some on the right such as Pat Buchanan or Steve Sailer that such shame or guilt should be expected.


They probably figure, hey, the NYT and the NY bankers and the Jews never apologized for Communist misdeeds, so why should they?

The CNN comments thread is dominated by people who really seem to want a fight with Russia. Are these views typical in the US?

There are a lot of Americans too dumb to notice the directions in which their remaining hate is allowed to be channeled.

Anonymous said...

But helping the Russian opposition in the same committed, involved, and even meddling manner as the U.S. once helped the Serbian opposition should be.


I wonder how she'd react if Russia meddled in the internal affairs of the US in that fashion?

Anonymous said...

There is a slight difference between what your distant predecessors did and what you as a society have done ten or twenty years ago.


And what is it you think that Russia did to Poland, Hungary, East Germany etc ten or twenty years ago? Twenty years ago would be 1994, if you're having trouble remembering.


Crimea rightfully belongs to Russia, but to make a virtue of the way Putin's been going about getting it back is either ignorant or twisted and masochistic.


They got it back via an election. You have some problem with elections?

Dave Pinsen said...

Eli Lake responds to allegations of a cabal restarting the Cold War.

Anonymous said...

Afghanistan respects Crimea's right to self-determination – Karzai

"Afghan President Hamid Karzai told a US congressional delegation that he respects the decision of the people of Crimea to reunite with Russia."

Other countries listed in the article as supporting the right to self-determination of the people of Crimea are Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Syria, Venezuela, and North Korea. Why isn't China on the list? Because it doesn't want Tibet and the Uighurs to get any ideas. China did abstain during a vote to condemn Russia in the Security Council though.

In Europe Front National has supported Russia, as has Austria's Freedom Party:

"Heinz-Christian Strache, leader of Austria’s far-right Freedom Party, which opinion polls suggest may top the European poll in his country, has been most open in siding with Putin. “The EU and United States should respect the result of the Crimea referendum,” he said of the vote organized under Russian occupation. “The sanctions that have been announced in the meantime are a farce.”

Strache said he had met Putin in Vienna and “found him to be a highly correct and interesting statesman.”


By the way, Putin is fluent in German while Obama thinks that Austrians speak Austrian.

"Le Pen’s Dutch political partner, Geert Wilders of the anti-EU Freedom Party, distanced himself from Russian military actions, while saying that the EU had made the first mistake and was wrong to engage in confrontation with Moscow."

Not surprising.

The U.K. Independence Party, which wants to pull Britain out of the EU, has mostly been content to attack European diplomacy without supporting Putin.

Udolpho.com said...

Great piece, Steve. Slate puts out a lot of risible garbage but this one ties together a lot of recurrent themes in elite thinking. As I've written elsewhere, this is a very Athens empire moment for us. I'm certain the 21st century will provide the answer as to how we will be humbled.

Son of Brock Landers said...

Masha gessen is the lesbian who said gay marriage wad not about gays but about destroying traditional marriage. That doesnt get a lot of press but this does

Anonymous said...

"Orthodox said...
Suggestion for Mr. Putin. Fund Southern Nationalists and support the secession of American states."

Or, better yet, fund both the Democrat and Republican nominees in 2016, whoever they might be

Anonymous said...

What else I've learned from Slate: It's really none of your business if your girlfriend was born a dude: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dear_prudence/2014/03/dear_prudence_my_ex_didn_t_tell_me_she_was_transgender_until_i_confronted.html

reiner Tor said...

Sorry, still not buying the "gentleman's agreement" thing. Nobody's that naive, especially not the Russians. If they wanted a real agreement, they'd have put it in writing. If all they could get was a "gentlemen's agreement," it means they couldn't secure a real agreement.

The agreement with the Ukrainian opposition was put in writing. The Russians didn't sign it, though, but the three EU foreign ministers and the Ukrainian opposition leaders, as well as Yanukovich, all have. Nobody cared for that agreement afterwards. I think that is quite a proof that an agreement you make with an EU foreign minister is worth less than toilet paper.

Jack De Rippa Gen. said...

What a simpleton.

The Russians have to fight in contested spaces. Probably against forces equipped lavishly if clandestinely by the US.

reiner Tor said...

Maybe the mass media are filled with psychopaths who speak dishonestly without remorse, and much of the blogosphere is filled with psychopaths who speak honestly without thought of consequences.

What makes you think bloggers (and Steve Sailer in particular) are psychopathic? Most people who say the truth are non-psychopathic. Especially if a non-psychopath finds a cause (like educating the public, or White Nationalism, or saving Western Civilization, or whatever), he will not hesitate to make sacrifices to promote what he believes to be the truth. Your idea sounds silly to me, especially since our blogger here definitely does not come across as a psychopath.

Anonymous said...

By the way, Putin is fluent in German while Obama thinks that Austrians speak Austrian.

That comparison is racisssss!

At least he's presentable.

Anonymous said...

I dunno...

I think bombing Moscow should be on the top of our "to do" list.

WWII proved modern war was good for eradicating 50 million people off the planet. Imagine if that hadn't happened, what the world would be like today. 50 million people in the 1940's having children. Their children having children. We'd be in quite a social pickle by now. Desperation for resources we now take for granted would be the theme of the day for most.

War is the greenest choice a society can make. To save our planet, war is the most efficient collective solution.

Once this becomes apparent to the editors of Slate, I'm hoping they'll stop being so coy about WWIII, and help our politicians rally the nukes, and get the big ball rolling.

Anonymous said...

Masha gessen is the lesbian who said gay marriage wad not about gays but about destroying traditional marriage. That doesnt get a lot of press but this does

When that youtube recording of her saying that came out, most discussions I saw dismissed it due to people asking, "who the heck is Masha Gessen?" People felt she was a nobody and her view was being used as if she were mainstream.

However, after seeing that she works for Uncle Sam, writes pieces in Slate and is quoted in the NY Times, I'd say that her views on marriage should now carry more weight. As such I agree that it should generate a lot more press.

Anonymous said...

Russia now has Orthodox priests taking airborne training, so Russian soldiers can carry the Word of God with them when they are forward deployed.

That's not an exaggeration. Check out this Russian Orthodox air-mobile Church.

Anonymous said...

"Masha gessen is the lesbian who said gay marriage wad not about gays but about destroying traditional marriage."

Ayn Rand had no use for marriage either.

Anonymous said...

"Why are the US and Russia enemies?"

We worship Jews and homos. They don't. So, they are 'godless'

Anonymous said...

"But some psychopaths don't speak honestly even when they shouldn't(at least in respect to one's career prospects)."


But some psychopaths speak honestly even when they shouldn't(at least in respect to one's career prospects).




Dave Pinsen said...

The US Army has had airborne priests for years.

Dave Pinsen said...

Ayn Rand was married to Frank O'Connor.

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