July 8, 2010

The rise of China and India: Is it good for the Jews?

My noodling below on global grand strategy for a year 2100 in which China and India contend for world dominance suggested that the Jewish community could play a key role in tipping the advantage toward one or the other. A reader kindly points out that the implications for the global Jewish community of the rise of China and India relative to America is a topic already on the mind of influential Jewish leaders, sensibly enough. From a very interesting article:
"Questions of survival"
By Shmuel Rosner
Haaretz [A leading Israeli newspaper]
June 26, 2006

WASHINGTON - The following disparity tells us more about human nature than about the future of the Jewish world: The executive branch - the heads of the large Jewish organizations, on the whole - are optimistic and believe Judaism has a glowing future, while the intellectuals and thinkers are much more pessimistic and insist on mentioning the pitfalls and obstacles the coming years hold in store. ...

Two groups of Jews gathered together last weekend at Wye Plantation, Maryland for a long discussion on the situation of the Jewish people. The first group, which met Wednesday and Thursday, consisted of the heads of 15 Jewish organizations such as the Presidents' Conference, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the Anti-Defamation League, the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations, the American Jewish Committee and others. In the second group were the "thinkers," as the organizers termed them: Natan Sharansky from Israel, Charles Krauthammer from The Washington Post, former Canadian justice minister Irwin Cotler, former Jewish Agency head Sallai Meridor and many others.

The Institute for Policy Planning of the Jewish People had organized this gathering. It had a somewhat ambitious aim - a strategic debate about the future of the Jewish people. ...


Their conclusions, in brief: The future is unclear. And in greater detail: There are many risks, and it is time to roll up our sleeves. The institute and its heads - Dennis Ross, Prof. Yehezkel Dror, Avi Gil, Avinoam Bar-Yosef - are already doing their homework.



One of the papers that was prepared in advance and presented to the participants in the conferences was that written by Dr. Shalom Wald. He chose 14 well-known historians, from Thucydides to Gibbon, Spangler, Toynbee and Kennedy, and examined their theories concerning the circumstances in which civilizations flourish or collapse. Then he tried to examine how these theories can be applied to the context of the Jewish people.



Several of his conclusions provoked disagreement. For example: "Getting all Jews into the same shape and country, even if it is Israel, as recently advocated by an Israeli [writer, A.B. Yehoshua - S.R.] is not the best survival strategy." Some of the Israeli participants did not like that idea. Granting official legitimacy to the Diaspora would be a mistake, Meridor said, according to some of those who participated. That would be the end of Zionism as we know it.



The fear expressed that "a real decline of the West, particularly the United States, would have dramatic consequences for the Jewish people," also led to controversy. Brandeis University president Jehuda Reinharz agreed that this type of decline can be expected "in the coming two decades" - but Stuart Eisenstadt was less emphatic about it. He believes the United States will remain the leading power. In all events, it was agreed the Jews "should strengthen cultural links with non-Western civilizations, particularly China and also India," powers that are on the ascent. This is not a question of preference or closeness; it is a question of survival, of readiness for the future. How should this be done? That will have to be the topic of discussion in the next gatherings already being planned.
[Emphasis mine.]


Abraham Foxman of the ADL says he came to the conference full of skepticism but left satisfied at its conclusion. ... It is the first time the heads of Jewish organizations have sat down round the same table and sought ways to cooperate, pushing aside the competition, suspicions and sometimes even latent hostility....



However, on the substance of the agreement to "work together" there are various opinions. Some of the participants believe it was agreed that a mechanism would be set up for "joint work in the future" while others told Haaretz that "not too much came out of it." Nevertheless, they managed to define aims and goals. First and foremost - investing in education for the young generation. The philanthropist Michael Steinhardt put great emphasis on this point, as well as on "lowering the price of Jewish life" in America. This means lowering the price of access to synagogues, Jewish schools, cultural centers and other activities.



Last year the institute held similar strategic conferences, but with slightly different participants. Then, too, in general, agreement was reached on more than a few topics. For example, that it was necessary to draw those on the fringes of Jewish civilization inward. This year, at the opening of the meeting, Bar-Yosef, the institute's director, presented a general report on the situation of the Jewish people. One sentence from that survey can sum up the results of that agreement better than any other - "The Jewish people: worldwide zero growth."



The better-known historians mentioned in Wald's review, particularly the earlier ones, also agreed for the most part that "the Jews will survive as a people and civilization." But there was nevertheless one who dissented - Oswald Spangler. What kept the Jews together as a people, he stated, was "magic consensus" but, he added, this is vanishing with the years. The Jews of the Western world have assimilated into general Western culture and will disappear with it. The Jews will disappear from a historical perspective; that is inevitable, he said.



There were several interesting arguments. One was over whether the Jews of America have to worry about the social welfare of the Jews of Israel. The Americans said yes - "All Jews are responsible for one another." The Israelis said no way; leave the social problems in Israel for us to deal with. Yisrael Maimon, the government representative, proposed a partnership with the Americans in technology, education, "brain investments." But the improvement of the lot of the poor, he said, must be left to the Israeli government.



Prof. Dror also stressed the importance of investing in improving the situation of education in Israel. One of the central aims he presented was "to develop Israel into a learning-knowledge society." Those present discussed the level of the universities in Israel and some of them even proposed the level of at least one of these institutions be raised sufficiently to attract students from abroad in higher numbers.



...
The Jewish schools in America are currently undergoing renewed popularity. An almost 30 percent growth in the number of those registering - but those, as Bar-Yosef pointed out, are "mostly those who are already affiliated." The schools have to become a center of attraction for others as well.


74 comments:

Anonymous said...

Short answer is no.
Nobody is as productive and as gullible and malleable as Anglos.

greenrivervalleyman said...

With the rise of China and (potentially) India there will be no one global hegemon but a collection of competing alliances, much like in the 18th Century. At best China may become the single greatest power according to certain measures, yet with 400-500 million people as well as ideal access to both the Pacific and Atlantic, the U.S. will hardly be a push-over by 2100 either. At worst it will require the alliance of 1 major power (India, Russia, the European Union) to successfully counter China.

Instead of fantasizing about what the mythical Jewish central command thinks of all of this (and does it occur to people that of the 50 odd Jews among the top 100 public figures, many cancel each other out?- "My Friedman neutralizes your Krugman! Oy!") what about the effect of a rising China on the exploding U.S. Hispanic population? In its quest for more resources China will eventually come courting to Latin America, with the big question being how will these countries turn. Will they tilt towards China b/c of lingering "Yanqui" resentment, or side with the U.S. on pure balance of power considerations? This is the $1 billion question, since as the home countries go so likely will our "vibrant" new fellow Americans.

IHTG said...

Haaretz is not a "leading Israeli newspaper".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_Israel

Whiskey said...

What Jews? Spengler was right, Jews like Shakers will disappear. Why? Because they don't reproduce much, and when they do they marry non-Jews, their kids being non-Jewish in identity and practice.

Israel of course is doomed, being a "one bomb" state as Iran points out, and unwilling to strike first. The UAE Foreign minister recently begged Israel or the US to bomb Iran, saying it would cost less and be more humane for the region, doubting any containment and deterrence can work with a nuclear Iran considering how it behaves now.

The Gulf Arabs are scared witless over Iran, the UAE Foreign Minister noted the extensive trade with Iran by the UAE and still argued for bombing Iran.

As for China and/or India being a rising power, don't make me laugh.

China will have a LOT of old people and hardly any young people, with a drastically declining birth rate, officially 20 million men without wives in 30 years time (unofficially multiply by four or so), massive Uighur and Tibetan and Hui separatist movements, the Muslim ones supported by Pakistan and Turkey. India has its own Muslim separatist movement, along with Maoist insurgencies in tribal areas where the resources are, and vast income disparities.

Arguing for China and/or India as a world beating power is like arguing for Italy to be the same in 1890, projecting thirty years out.

Whiskey said...

Let me add that a rising power has to have the following attributes:

1. A uniformly well educated and well off working-middle class, with disposable income (i.e. domestic consumption).

2. Rule of law and domestic stability to encourage private domestic development.

3. Technological expertise and the ability to leverage a highly trained/skilled workforce.

Examples would include Japan, Germany during 1890-1935, the US during 1870-1960, Britain during 1800-1880. If anything China and India resemble the Soviet Union -- massive population and resources, mostly unskilled. China is already the scene of strikes across the industrial heartland causing factories to move farther west in search of cheap labor.

China has been unable despite 15 years of trying to stimulate domestic demand or a middle class, it is built entirely on cheap labor and India is even worse.

Talk of them being world-beaters is akin to flipping that house in 2004.

Anonymous said...

I'm trying to imagine the response from Abe Foxman and the ADL if a bunch of white guys got together in a similar fashion to discuss how to save their race ....

agnostic said...

That boldfaced part is creepy. Wonder if they'll offer their unique knowledge of Western society's power structure and their general cunning to the ascending powers... and then do likewise for us after they've gained the trust of the rising powers.

I smell a Maltese man boiling in a cauldron.

Anonymous said...

At best China may become the single greatest power according to certain measures, yet with 400-500 million people as well as ideal access to both the Pacific and Atlantic, the U.S. will hardly be a push-over by 2100 either



There won't be a US by 2100.

ATBOTL said...

Of course all these same people and their constituents are virulently hostile to whites thinking about our future as a people.

I fail to see how influential Jews cancel each other out. They may disagree about some things, but they all agree on "is it good for the Jews?" and most of them have a very similar idea of what that entails -- unlimited immigration into white countries and the suppression of white identity and culture.

Furthermore, the "Jewish central command" that the article is about is not mythical, unless you think the reporter just made this meeting all up. Jews really do have big meetings where their leader from all over the world get together and plan racial group strategy. That's something whites need to emulate.

Anonymous said...

Spengler was right, Jews like Shakers will disappear. Why? Because they don't reproduce much, and when they do they marry non-Jews, their kids being non-Jewish in identity and practice.



Non-Jewish like you, Whiskey?

IHTG said...

You know, it IS possible that Whiskey is actually a Jew.

But the USA is full of philosemitic Zionist Christians - is it so unbelievable that just one of them is a Steve-o-sphere/HBD-sphere junkie?

Anonymous said...

"In all events, it was agreed the Jews "should strengthen cultural links with non-Western civilizations, particularly China and also India," powers that are on the ascent. "

I have bad news for the Jews. The Chinese and Indians don't feel the least bit guilty about the Holocaust. And they don't need Jewish mega-billionaires to show them how to make movies or run financial institutions.

Moreover, nearly all the Indians and Chinese with advanced degrees and money I know distrust their Jewish colleagues. So the Chosen People, if they do persist in spite of assimilation, might be SOL. Maybe they should start figuring out a way to strengthen and preserve the West, now, with the considerable power and influence they have developed here, instead of scheming to elect Obama and turn America into a brown majority Latinized backwater.

Of course, US Jews could go back to living as poor peasants, again. Maybe the local Mestizo gangs won't attack their villages, stealing their money and food as the cossacks once did. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

Anonymous said...

There won't be a US by 2100.

But given her extinction-level fertility rates, neither will there be a China - at least not as we knew her.

[BTW, there will still be Red State Christians in 2100 - the question is whether any of y'all HBD nihilists will bother to make any babies so as to be able to join us then.]

Anonymous said...

Whiskey says, "What Jews? Spengler was right, Jews like Shakers will disappear. Why? Because they don't reproduce much, and when they do they marry non-Jews, their kids being non-Jewish in identity and practice."

Stop denying facts and spreading misinformation, Whiskey.

"Israel’s Future is Young: Jewish Birthrate Up, Muslim Rate Down"
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133460

"Demographic Revolution: Jewish, Arab Growth Equal in Jerusalem"
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137466

"Demographic Trend in Israel’s Favor"
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/137790

Anonymous said...

But the USA is full of philosemitic Zionist Christians - is it so unbelievable that just one of them is a Steve-o-sphere/HBD-sphere junkie?

I doubt they read much except for the Bible.

Anonymous said...

China is already courting Latin America. Indeed, her appetite for raw materials is the primary reason Chile is doing so well. But, I doubt this will ever turn into any meaningful domination by China. Interestingly, well-educated, well-to-do Latin Americans tend to view the US positively. They are very aware of racial differences, and talk about them openly. Yet none of them are aware of the devastation demographic change has wrought upon America. In their view, they still think America is top dog, and will be for some time. China just seems a place to make money, nothing more.

Shawn said...

White Protestants in America have more combined wealth than Jews in America, even though Jews are far more overrepresented on of Forbes.

Same goes for the punditry. There are many more White Protestants who are pundits even though they do not make the Big List.

And of course White Protestants form a larger voting block than Jews.

Jews win on ethnocentrism however.

But the conclusion, as I see it, is: White Protestants are the most powerful single group in America.

Tony T. said...

The question should be: Is Steve Sailer good for the Jews? I think we all know the answer to that one?

Svigor said...

I'm trying to imagine the response from Abe Foxman and the ADL if a bunch of white guys got together in a similar fashion to discuss how to save their race

[sarc/naivete on]Well, apparently, as long as we don't do it in a basement in secret, it's a-okay![sarc/naivete off]

worf said...

Whiskey

@ nextbigfuture there was a post about how the gender imbalance isn't as severe a problem as many think.

In terms of fertility I think the CCP might try and reverse the one-child policy as it has done in Shanghai and certain other districts.

The lack of consumption is slowly changing. The technological base is already being formed. You seriously underestimate the Chinese. If anything it'll be the disparity in incomes and development between the coast and the heartland that might cause problem, but again the CCP isn't filled with idiots who haven't considered these issues.

Svigor said...

I have bad news for the Jews. The Chinese and Indians don't feel the least bit guilty about the Holocaust. And they don't need Jewish mega-billionaires to show them how to make movies or run financial institutions.

Er, whites didn't feel guilty about the Holocaust at first, either. And they don't need Jews to show them how to make movies or run financial institutions, either.

The distinction you're looking for is appearance; Jews look enough like whites to pass. The same doesn't hold for Chinese or Indians. If Jews looked like Indonesians they would've had a much harder job exploiting our weaknesses.

But the USA is full of philosemitic Zionist Christians - is it so unbelievable that just one of them is a Steve-o-sphere/HBD-sphere junkie?

It's not just his philo-semitism, it's his personality (authoritarian, incurious, obsessed, dishonest, hyperbolic) plus his particular interests. But yeah, it's possible he's "Scotch-Irish."

Anonymous said...

What I find creepy is that Krauthammer was there, and then he returns to comment on Fox News as if his primary interests are those of the United States and not of Jews first and Israel second...

jody said...

OT, but isn't it time to talk about whether or not obama and holder are even good at being lawyers? they suck at everything else required for their current jobs, but in reviewing the language in their last several cases, i see that maybe these guys actually aren't even average lawyers. they look like below average lawyers. this would support obama's performance history - a history of accomplishing nothing.

the justice department's case against arizona contains what appears to be not only a weak argument, but an argument which jan brewer and her supporters anticipated exactly. they specifically phrased the language in their state law to clearly defeat the exact challenge which holder is mounting over the supremacy clause and the US government "taking the field" in immigration enforcement. the arizona law does not interfere with the US government at all. indeed, it is almost the exact same law with the exact same language. again, by design, on purpose, specifically to defeat holder's line of attack. the arizona law also does not establish a competing immigration enforcement agency, as suspects are simply turned over directly to the US government, so yet another legal attack is defeated. the best possible argument holder can make is that the arizona law will interfere with the US government's efforts to enforce immigration, by "overwhelming" the do-nothing US government. but they already aren't doing anything, and have billions of dollars at their disposal, so they can't be overwhelmed.

what judge is going to agree that the mighty and powerful US government could be "overwhelmed" by arizona state troopers detaining a couple illegal aliens every day, and grant the injunction which obama and holder so desperately seek?

holder did not even bother pursuing a civil rights attack, and left all that language out of the justice department suit.

i anticipate a similarly weak case against the NCAA, should holder and obama elect to attack them as well.

Mike Courtman said...

The idea that China won't be powerful because it's got some minor ethnic problems is laughable. China's big issue is obviously resources. It's got limited land, limited water, and little oil. This a major reason why its so determined to follow population control programmes.

Furthermore, thanks to nuclear armed Russia, India, France and America, it can't take just take over countries like western powers did in the 19th Century.

Neither the less, it's shear industrial might will ensure it will probably be the world's leading superpower.

Number Two will likely be a new Orthodox Empire in Eastern Europe or Russia - nukes, a relatively smart population, friendly to non-liberal intellectuals, lots of resources and with western European and Jewish exiles it will also have the leadership.

The U.S will be battling for third with India unless it's able to do finally do something about its southern border and stops selling off its resource base to Asians and Europeans.

Anonymous said...

I'm trying to imagine the response from Abe Foxman and the ADL if a bunch of white guys got together in a similar fashion to discuss how to save their race ....



There's no need to imagine, this actually happened. The ADL took great umbrage.


Other talks covered a range of topics, from an "insider" look at Mexicans to a proposal advocating for a white "racial state." Most speakers' comments focused on an alleged siege being waged against whites around the world and the poor prospects for survival of the white race, which they claimed did not bode well for America or the world.


Nothing like that wonderful Jewish conference then!

I don't know about IQ, but Jews hypocrisy score is right off the charts.

kurt9 said...

What I never understood was why it took Israel so long to become the kind of technology manufacturing export economy that successful East Asian economies have become. This is something they have done only in the past 10 years or so. This has been clearly a successful strategy since the early 80's. Yet Israel as a whole has been remarkably reticent about following this model. The generally high IQ and competence of the Jewish people clearly suggests that such an economic strategy makes sense. Yet, for whatever reason, they insisted in pushing their kids into low-value added industries such as agriculture and the like. This strikes me as silly.

It also makes logical sense for Israel to make relations and trade with everybody, like China and India. This is how Singapore became a successful city-state. Singapore, Hong Kong, and Israel are not too dissimilar in both population size and human capital. Thus, it make sense for Israel to copy the high-value added economic model pioneered by these two city-states and other East Asian countries.

Also, why consider Israel and the Diaspora as exclusive options? It makes sense from a risk management stand point to pursue both options.

You know, the Jewish people are considered to be smarter than most others. Yet, a lot of their choices and arguments do not seem to reflect this smartness.

lowly said...

Ja, the "umbrage" taken was against Amren, which coincidentally has following story up today:

Chinese outsourcer seeks U.S. workers with IQ of 125 and up

Bleum Inc. sets IQ threshold at 140 for its hires in China, however

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9178913/Chinese_outsourcer_seeks_U.S._workers_with_IQ_of_125_and_up

worf said...

"But the conclusion, as I see it, is: White Protestants are the most powerful single group in America."

The truth is that white protestants don't see themselves as members of a group but rather just as individuals, Americans if you will, whereas the politicized Jews do see themselves as a distinct group. Ethnic nepotism/collective solidarity on the part of the politicized Jewry more than compensates for their lack of numbers on any measure. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Anonymous said...

India and Israel are naturally aligned against expansionist Islamism. China, on the other hand, would like Iran to be the dominant power in West Asia. The loquacious, high IQ Indian American will align with the American Jews and ensure that America remains one with Israel, India and Japan.

The Australians have great infatuation with the Hans (the previous Prime Minister even knew Mandarin), and they are aggressively encouraging intermarriage to realize their Asian destiny. they have very sniffy relations with India and are unlikely to align.

The Anti-Gnostic said...

There won't be a US by 2100.

Correctamundo amigo. The drug cartels and Mexican army will divvy up the southwestern US, Hawaii will leave, Alaska will leave, and the rest of the States will split along their ethno-cultural fault lines.

Why is Whiskey gnashing his teeth over gender imbalance in China? They'll just grab the women they need from Taiwan, Korea, the Caucasus, etc. Who's going to stop them--the faculty of Spelman College?

The more pertinent question, "The Fall of the US: is it good for the Jews?" Probably not, as the Middle East erupts in a mushroom-cloud blaze of nihilistic glory and the diaspora swallow the lumps in their throats and start out-marrying as quickly as they can.

Anonymous said...

Ja, the "umbrage" taken was against Amren, which coincidentally has following story up today:

Chinese outsourcer seeks U.S. workers with IQ of 125 and up

Bleum Inc. sets IQ threshold at 140 for its hires in China, however

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9178913/Chinese_outsourcer_seeks_U.S._workers_with_IQ_of_125


From the article:

""China has a much larger talent pool than India does, and it has much less demand for that talent," said Rongley, who added that the number of new computer science graduates each year is about 300,000.

India dominates the offshore outsourcing industry, helped by the fact that it has a large English-speaking population. The largest Indian IT vendors have in excess of 100,000 employees.

The impact of China's larger talent pool may be evident in an international coding contest conducted annually by TopCoder Inc., a Glastonbury, Conn.-based software development service.

Last year, about 4,200 people took part in this coding competition, which includes events such as algorithm-writing contests. Of the 70 finalists, 20 were from China, 10 from Russia and two from the U.S. The top winner was Chinese. The contest is sponsored in part by the National Security Agency."


This is something that I've noticed for a long time. For all the hype that Indians get for IT and computer programming, they're just not very good. Like the article notes, the best programmers seem to be American/Euro whites, Russians, and Chinese. These groups routinely dominate competitions and Indians are conspicuously absent. I've long suspected that something political has been behind the massive influx of Indian IT workers over the past 2 decades.

Anonymous said...

Maybe the Jews should transplant a Hasidic colony from Brooklyn to the outskirts of Shanghai just in case.

Anonymous said...

That conference reminds me of those bad, made-for-TV science-fiction movies, where a race of alien parasites that just finished leeching off and exhausting the resources of some hapless planet is now searching for a new host.

Svigor said...

China's problem going forward, relative to historical western success, seems to be social trust and the like. Do they have the capacity for individualism (science/innovation), trust (low corruption, real biggie), etc? In short, can they be both individualist enough for science, and cooperative enough not to be the sort who dumps the whole "free candy" bowl into the purse? If not, they'll be big, but not as big as one would think by extrapolating western success onto their population & IQ. IQ fetishism glosses over the fact that China sat on a whole hell of a lot of potential for a hell of a long time. Leading is very different from following, and westerners have plucked all the low-hanging fruit. Personally I'm not troubled by a rising China. They just don't have any history of expansionism. They're not the pack of conquer-or-surrender monkeys whites are. Which kinda goes back to the HBD-is-more-than-IQ thing; NE Asians don't seem to have that "will to power" thing going on like whites do, that spark that makes (enough of) them want to understand and master everything. I'm far more worried about our own future. If we get our confidence back I think we can deal with the Chinese (in the good sense), no problem. If not, they'll politely colonize us like they will anyone who'll let them.

Svigor said...

If Jews were really so crucial to filmmaking, the Israeli film industry would look more like Mecca and less like Bartertown. So I'm done hearing about how they're somehow the active ingredient in filmmaking. After a short period of correction, the US film industry would probably improve in quality if all American Jews made Aliyah (requiring ethnically correct gatekeepers imposes a cost). It would undoubtedly improve in character.

Svigor said...

"But the conclusion, as I see it, is: White Protestants are the most powerful single group in America."

The truth is that white protestants don't see themselves as members of a group but rather just as individuals, Americans if you will, whereas the politicized Jews do see themselves as a distinct group. Ethnic nepotism/collective solidarity on the part of the politicized Jewry more than compensates for their lack of numbers on any measure. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.


Indeed. Calling whites the most powerful group in America is like saying Hulk Hogan is stronger than Pee Wee Herman when he's sedated and strapped to a table. So what? He's still screwed.

Anonymous said...

Han Chinese seem to me to be more direct competitors with jews than are Brahmin Indians. I think latin america could be a battleground for indians and chinese: neither have special natural advantage, and both match up phenotypically in their own way. It's significant to me that most east asians are interested in learning spanish over any other non-english, non-east asian language (including notably, over arabic or hindi). I think they recognize a phenotypical compatibility with a large bloc of latinos.

For jews, east asia is the only major ascendent power where I feel they remain uninfiltratable outsiders they're hurt by the political weakness of halfie asians and jewish convert asians in all east asian countries.

Hopefully Anonymous

http://www.hopeanon.typepad.com

Anonymous said...

Great stuff. I hope to see more from you about this topic of market-dominant minority competition in the US. Some thoughts (from a moderately racialist white perspective):

One of the interesting things about this conversation is what it assumes/implies about whites - that whites are essentially a low-IQ group (closer to blacks and Hispanics than to Jews, Indians, and NE Asians) that will play little role in making the important decisions in the future of America, a view which I (unfortunately) think is largely correct. There are already more Jews than whites at Harvard and Yale. Add in Asians/Indians and the future ruling class is already overwhelmingly non-white. Over time the white fraction of the elite Ivy League schools will probably dwindle to around the same size as the AA set-asides for blacks and Hispanics at these schools.

On top of this, whites have no institutions to promote their interests, so they cannot effectively coordinate and use what power they do have. Most intelligent whites are secular and it appears that any form of secular white nationalism will remain fringe for the foreseeable future. Christian whites have infrastructure, but they do not use it to advance their ethnic interests, and in general do not have the most talented whites and are doomed by dysgenic fertility in the long run. The only group of whites that has the brains and ethnic infrastructure to have any shot at significant future influence is the Mormons (who are in large part descendants of America's original New England elite), though at present they do not appear to be a serious contender for the top slot.

(continued below)

Anonymous said...

(continued from above)

Anyway, a situation in which Indians and Jews must compete with each other for dominance might actually be better for whites than the present situation in which there is pretty much unilateral Jewish domination of important societal institutions. Also, despite the Raj, Indians also have fewer historical grievances against whites than Jews do, and whites generally find Indians to be friendly and personable whereas Jews are often seen as "pushy" and abrasive. An Indian-dominated US might actually be much better for whites than a Jewish-dominated one.

Then again, a situation in which Indians and Jews essentially cooperate and share power against the majority would be a disaster for whites. Immigration rates would probably skyrocket, and very large numbers of whites would die in Middle Eastern wars against the combined enemies of Jews and Indians.

Overall the outlook for whites looks bleak. Whites will be a minority in America with very little social, economic, or cultural power and will have few if any institutions which they control. All real power will be in the hands of high-IQ minorities, and there will also be increasing competition from Hispanics for power within the lower ranks of society. History (i.e. Haiti, Zimbabwe, South Africa) suggests that a minority-white America will not be pleasant.

sdfasdfasdf said...

"This is not a question of preference or closeness; it is a question of survival, of readiness for the future."

Ha ha ha, hee hee hee, hoo hoo hoo, Jews really kill me.
SURVIVAL? Why? Is another Holocaust looming on the horizon? Are gentile Americans, Chinese, or Hindus planning to round up the Jews and ship them to concentration camps?

What a bunch of deceitful drama queens. Jews will SURVIVE like the rest of us. The real issue and question is DOMINANCE, as in 'What will happen to Jewish power elite dominance around the world thanks to US being the richest and most powerful country in which Jews are the most powerful group?'

Jews are not threatened by Asian-Indians for several reasons. Asian-Indians may compete with Jews in many professional fields, but even smart Asian-Indians don't have the IQ and ingenuity of Google Boys. Asian-Indians are just bright people Jews like to hire and work with. Hindus will not dominate Wall Street or start winning all the Nobel Prizes.

Also, India and US are both caste societies. US a caste society???!!! In a way, yes. Top caste: Jews and their wasp lapdogs. Second caste: upper middle class whites and Asians. Third caste: White Middle America. Fourth caste: Mexicans and blacks.
In a nation like Japan or China, the rich, middle, and poor are all one people.
In a nation like India and the US, each 'caste' tends to be racially marked. Though Indians are racially all mixed up, upper castes tend to be lighter skinned than lower castes. India is ruled by an 'alien' power elite with Aryan origin. Jews, who rule over the goyim population in the US, can, wink wink, understand and empathize with the Asian-Indian brahmin-merchant elites. Both Jewish and Asian-Indian elites are playing to the game of 'how to keep the potentially hostile masses under control.' In both cases, the elites used divide-and-rule among various different groups. It's no wonder Jews admire the British more than any other Europeans, for no people mastered this technique as much as the British imperialists. How did they rule India for so long? Divide-and-rule among regions, religions, localities.
Europeans had much less success ruling East Asia, where each nation was pretty much made up of one people. And Jews will have a harder time influencing a nation like China, one solid block of united patriotic people.

A powerful homogeneous goy nation is what Jews hate and fear most, which is why they are trying to turn US into an empire of 'diversity'. Putnam is right that diversity doesn't promote unity and cooperation, but that is what the Jews want. Jews don't want all the goy population to come together as one people. What if such people all eye the Jew with suspicion?

India is a mixed bag nation, and American Jews will be able to play various factions in India. Jews will never have to deal with or confront a powerful unified India. China is a different story.

If China becomes a superpower, there will never have been anything like it. A virtual empire made up of mostly the same people(and even non-Han Chinese mostly look pretty Asian.) Usually, homogeneous nations are small or limited in size. An empire is made up of diverse peoples. China is like a great empire made up of a single people. It will be difficult for Jews to push around or play divide-and-manipulate with these people.

Also, unlike WASPS, the Chinese cannot be picked on for their historical guilt and besides, Chinese don't give a shit about do-goody conscience. Chinese can't be tagged with anti-semitism, holocaust, or enslaving blacks. They were 'victimized' by Western imperialism, Japanese imperialism, and Chinese have learned the art of 'crying racism and victimhood' for their self-aggrandizement too. WASPS were powerful but had the achilles heel of historical guilt which Jews struck with their poison arrow. China is gonna be a guilt-free superpower.

Jimmy the Greek said...

Several predictions/observations:

* India as a country will never become a world power comparable with China due to many fundamental constraints.

* China will never allow non-Han foreigners control or unduely influence their government, policies, media, economy, etc. India may allow more foreign influence but limited to that which is not a threat to the state.

* Indian diaspora in the West have and will outperform Chinese per capita for the reasons noted.

* Chinese diaspora in the West will be more rapidly absorbed into the educated/elite of the West than the Indian diaspora. In contrast, Jewish diaspora will continue to absorbs the educated/elite of the West including Chinese and Indian diaspora.

* Jewish/Western elite men marry diaspora elite Chinese women far, far more than Indian women. When Indian diaspora elite men marry out, they usually marry non-elite blonde N.European looking women (eg cute nurses). Few Chinese men and much fewer Indian women marry out.

Sum:

No Threat: India itself and the Chinese diaspora (excl the embedded spies that all diaspora have)

Min Threat: Indian diaspora

Max Threat: China itself

Anonymous said...

I feel I must discount China's industrial power. It was built with a lot of help from greedy Western CEO's trying to offshore everything from the manufacture of silicon computer chips to toothbrushes. But this happened all so quickly. Are the Chinese really in control of all this?

Chinese factory managers are famous for corruption and quality fade -- e.g., pouring less than the absolute minimum of plastic in the molds resulting in heavily degraded products. My own personal experience is that 30% of all Chinese products sold at Home Depot and Target are defective and the majority are substandard. Can the Chinese really grow indefinitely under this kind of management? Patents for most stuff Chinese make are held by foreigners, and Chinese research, while increasing in volume, is still far behind the West in caliber. In a 15 year time span America could sail back into a dominant position as a world manufacturer. But not with blacks and other minorities plundering the economy through taxes and affirmative action quotas which cause widespread degradation of all services and industries. Call it the Obama effect.

Things like third world immigration to the US wouldn't be such a big deal if major industries weren't required to hire and promote immigrants and blacks to all levels. Nothing kills white creativity and initiative faster than seeing a less intelligent, far less competent non-white from a sub tropical climate promoted over them.

worf said...

"IQ fetishism glosses over the fact that China sat on a whole hell of a lot of potential for a hell of a long time. Leading is very different from following, and westerners have plucked all the low-hanging fruit. Personally I'm not troubled by a rising China. They just don't have any history of expansionism. They're not the pack of conquer-or-surrender monkeys whites are. Which kinda goes back to the HBD-is-more-than-IQ thing; NE Asians don't seem to have that "will to power" thing going on like whites do, that spark that makes (enough of) them want to understand and master everything. I'm far more worried about our own future. If we get our confidence back I think we can deal with the Chinese (in the good sense), no problem."

The difference here is the Chinese have had civilization for millenia. NorthWest European civilization is very young, about a few hundred years old at the most. Civilizations select for people that are conformers.

Europe only succeeded since it has historically consisted of tribal peoples for much of its history. In fact Cicero once remarked that the people of Britain were too stupid to be suitable slaves. When tribals gain civility, an ascendent empire is usually the result of the optimal combination of selection for intelligence along with the pre-existing aggressive nature of the people. Zheng He, instead of some European, could have been the first to start the long distance slave trade, and exploration of the 'new world'. Everything was in place except for any outward expansionist desire and the struggle for power by the Confucius court, another product of high civilization. Civilization given enough time weeds aggression out. Given my anecdotal experience with 'whites' (read northwest euro-descended) I would say there is not much if any imperial or expansionist vigour that would've probably been present only a few centuries ago. This decline predates Jewry, and is the inevitable consequence of civility IMHO. The tribals sometimes overrun the civilized.

On the other hand this sort of vigour isn't necessarily required for a world with a globalized economy.

I wouldn't rule out Chinese expansionism just yet.

worf said...

"China sat on a whole hell of a lot of potential for a hell of a long time. Leading is very different from following, and westerners have plucked all the low-hanging fruit. Personally I'm not troubled by a rising China. They just don't have any history of expansionism. They're not the pack of conquer-or-surrender monkeys whites are. Which kinda goes back to the HBD-is-more-than-IQ thing; NE Asians don't seem to have that "will to power" thing going on like whites do, that spark that makes (enough of) them want to understand and master everything. I'm far more worried about our own future. If we get our confidence back I think we can deal with the Chinese"

The difference here is the Chinese have had civilization for millenia. NorthWest European civilization is very young, about a few hundred years old at the most. Civilizations select for people that are conformers.

Europe only succeeded since it has historically consisted of tribal peoples for much of its history. In fact Cicero once remarked that the people of Britain were too stupid to be suitable slaves. When tribals gain civility, an ascendent empire is usually the result of the optimal combination of selection for intelligence along with the pre-existing aggressive nature of the people. Zheng He, instead of some European, could have been the first to start the long distance slave trade, and exploration of the 'new world'. Everything was in place except for any outward expansionist desire and the struggle for power by the Confucius court, another product of high civilization. Civilization given enough time weeds aggression out. Given my anecdotal experience with 'whites' (read northwest euro-descended) I would say there is not much if any imperial or expansionist vigour that would've probably been present only a few centuries ago. This decline predates Jewry, and is the inevitable consequence of civility IMHO. The tribals sometimes overrun the civilized.

On the other hand this sort of vigour isn't necessarily required for a world with a globalized economy.

I wouldn't rule out Chinese expansionism just yet.

worf said...

Svigor for more of where I'm coming from check out 'Historical Dynamics:
Why States Rise and Fall' by Peter Turchin.
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7690.html

worf said...

kurt9: "Yet, for whatever reason, they insisted in pushing their kids into low-value added industries such as agriculture and the like. This strikes me as silly."

The head prefers to have its own body, regardless of how inferior a body might seem in comparison to the head. Singapore isn't an ethnic state, and Hong Kong is an offshoot of China, the body is safe and sound.

"You know, the Jewish people are considered to be smarter than most others. Yet, a lot of their choices and arguments do not seem to reflect this smartness."

Smart people don't necessarily make for smart decisions, especially in retrospect. The best laid plans of men and mice go awry. ;)

worf said...

"For all the hype that Indians get for IT and computer programming, they're just not very good. Like the article notes, the best programmers seem to be American/Euro whites, Russians, and Chinese. These groups routinely dominate competitions and Indians are conspicuously absent. I've long suspected that something political has been behind the massive influx of Indian IT workers over the past 2 decades."

The article has the answer... the pool in China is much larger. Despite all the hot air blown, the Indian middle class is puny given its population.

There need not be a political motivation, simple short term business interest (depress or maintaining wages) is sufficient.

CJ said...

But there was nevertheless one who dissented - Oswald Spangler.

Why is Spengler's name spelled Spangler? This is a serious question. Are there any German-speakers out there who could explain?

asdadfasdfaf said...

Jews are a mixed blessing. One reason why China won't become a leading superpower is it has no Jews. There are lots of smart Chinese, but Chinese intelligence isn't same as Jewish inteligence. We have the Jews, so we'll be at the forefront of macro-innovations in science, technology, etc.
Jews would be a great blessing if most of them were conservativs, but alas they are not. So, even as the Jews give us so much, they push social and political policies which may well be the undoing of America, or at least white America. (The Jew giveth, the Jew taketh away.) Without a solid white majority dedicated to rule of law, politics of fairness and conscience, it's hard to tell what will happen to large parts of the US.

We have the great Jews, China does not. We have the great geniuses... but we also have the radical nuts. In many cases, both in the single person. Oppenheimer, the father of the atomic bomb. Also a communist sympathizer.
Google Boys, great innovators and entrepreneurs. Also super Obama supporters. Jews are the joker in the international poker game.

Without Jews, the West might have been stabler. But it also would have been much less dynamic and interesting. Anglo-American meritocracy and fair play enabled Jews to do great things in the US that they were unable to do elsewhere. On the other hand, Jewish power has gotten utterly obnoxious, self-righteous, morally narcissistic, and arrogant in the US.

Jews are one people you just love and hate at the same time. I often feel,"what a great great people.. and a bunch of a--holes!!"

Same with blacks in other areas. Thanks to blacks, US dominates the world in many sports events and pop music. The whole world is crazy about and envious of America having so many talented blacks. But there's the little problem of all those blacks in Detroit, Oakland, Philadelphia, and all over the South wreaking all sorts of havoc.

It's no wonder that as different as they are, Jews and blacks have a kind of mutual respect for one another. They are both the odd-people-out for both good and bad reasons.

dsfadfasfasdf said...

"I feel I must discount China's industrial power. It was built with a lot of help from greedy Western CEO's trying to offshore everything from the manufacture of silicon computer chips to toothbrushes. But this happened all so quickly. Are the Chinese really in control of all this?"

I agree with you halfway, but could Western companies have exported their factories to just any poor country and attained the same results?
China was the favorite target not only because of low wages but the work ethic of its workers.
Yes, there are tons of corruption in China, but it's no worse than other parts of the developing world. For every rotten official and manager, there are many capable ones who earn the respect and even the trust of foreign companies.
Also, Chinese are capable of learning, adapting, and changing. No one in the 1980s predicted China would come so far so fast. This doesn't mean the next 20 or 30 yrs will be just as astounding for China, but at least the possibility is there IF the Chinese decide to do the right things.
Right now, I would bet 60/40 against Chinese doing what must be done. Unlike Singapore or Taiwan, China is too big, too populous, too crazy to be managed by a bunch of technocrats. But, I don't see a collapse either. And even if there were great crises, Chinese have a lot of historical practice and stoicism in surviving them. If the Chinese survived the 19th and 20th century through all the upheavals, famines, civil wars, world wars, communism, etc, they can survive anything.

I fear Americans have grown too soft.

If China is politically paralyzed by too much greed and self-interest from top to bottom, American whites are paralyzed by selflessness, and too many blacks and browns are paralyzed by dependency.
Whites, who should have and direct the moral and political authority in the US, feel only shame and self-loathing.

Anonymous said...

We have the Jews, so we'll be at the forefront of macro-innovations in science, technology, etc.

All the major "macro-innovations in science, technology, etc." were advanced by White gentiles, not Jews:

http://mangans.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-did-we-ever-get-along-without.html

Anonymous said...

"The whole world is crazy and envious of America for having so many talentd blacks".

Yeah, right.

Anonymous said...

"For all the hype that Indians get for IT and computer programming, they're just not very good. Like the article notes, the best programmers seem to be American/Euro whites, Russians, and Chinese. These groups routinely dominate competitions and Indians are conspicuously absent. I've long suspected that something political has been behind the massive influx of Indian IT workers over the past 2 decades."

For all the mad props given to the Chinese for kicking ass when it comes to contests, this somehow doesn't translate into much of an advantage when it comes to research.

For Computer Science, if you look at the most rarefied levels, the Chinese seem vastly underrepresented vis-a-vis Indians:

1. ACM doctoral disseration award winners/finalists (http://awards.acm.org/doctoral_dissertation/)

2. Godel prize winners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godel_Prize)

3. Turing award winners (Whites all the way, other than one Chinese and one Indian)

4. FOCS/STOC papers (http://theory.stanford.edu/focs2010/accepted.html)

5. Nevanlinna Prize winners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevanlinna_Prize)

Of course, coding is a different ball game from CS research, but looking at the Top Coder data point to "prove" lack of Indian CS/IT talent ignores many other data points that indicate the contrary.

P.S. Interestingly enough, while East Asians dominate the US Math Olympiad teams, they do relatively poorly when it comes to undergraduate Math research, too. Case in point: The Frank and Brennie Morgan Prize for Outstanding Research in Mathematics by an Undergraduate Student

http://www.ams.org/profession/prizes-awards/ams-prizes/morgan-prize

Anonymous said...

One reason why China won't become a leading superpower is it has no Jews.




That's absurd. You'd be hard pressed to come up with more than one superpower in all of history where Jews played a prominent role. The British Empire did all right for itself for centuries with no Jewish input.

Anonymous said...

@worf

Most of the IT worker are mid-level drones and in the niche they fill, English fluency is more important than coding skills
Anything more than competent coding skills is not needed

Anonymous said...

I feel I must discount China's industrial power. It was built with a lot of help from greedy Western CEO's trying to offshore everything from the manufacture of silicon computer chips to toothbrushes. But this happened all so quickly. Are the Chinese really in control of all this?

China WILL become a high tech country. It is inevitable. All the proof you need of this is Taiwan. Taiwanese industry has very quietly risen, to the point where a lot of its technology is just as good as Japan's now. This is especially evident in the field of computer hardware. Here are just some of the companies I can think of that are world leaders:

Gigabyte Technology and Asus - Rivals that dominate motherboards

G.Skill - Maker of RAM. I would say that they are now the #1 preferred brand among gaming enthusiasts

D-Link - Makes networking products like routers, considered one of the leaders in this field along with Linksys

Cooler Master and Lian Li - Computer case makers. Cooler Master has recently surpassed Antec as being the most preferred brand among gamers

Acer - Now the #2 PC maker in the world, second only to Hewlett Packard

On top of that, there are loads of leading North American computer hardware companies that were founded by Taiwanese/Chinese immigrants:

Nvidia and ATI - Arch rivals that own the video card industry

Kingston Technology - Maker of RAM, considered one of the leaders along with others like G.Skill and Corsair. Also starting to make solid state drives

Antec - Makes computer cases and the best power supplies along with Corsair

Linksys - Leader in networking hardware along with D-Link

EVGA - Considered to make the most premium motherboards, but at a much higher cost than Gigabyte and ASUS products

Heck, practically the only part of your computer that DOESN'T involve the Chinese is the CPU. Intel and AMD have that locked down.

Also, RIP Wang Computers. An Wang (the inventor of magnetic core memory) built up this company, which was at one point on the same level as IBM. But he handed the reigns over to his son, who promptly ran the company into the ground. Regression to the mean + nepotism can be a very sad thing.

Anonymous said...

Moreover, nearly all the Indians and Chinese with advanced degrees and money I know distrust their Jewish colleagues
i have noticed this too - they are pretty upfront about it .

sdfsadfasdf said...

We have the Jews, so we'll be at the forefront of macro-innovations in science, technology, etc.

All the major "macro-innovations in science, technology, etc." were advanced by White gentiles, not Jews:

http://mangans.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-did-we-ever-get-along-without.html


Right, Einstein was a gentile.

Anonymous said...

It’s not a matter of Americans having gotten too soft as much as Americans being victims of their own success. As Steve says, Pacific Palisades is the end of the line. There seems to be a lot of desire to be from somewhere else and get in to Pacific Palisades (or its equivalent), and not a lot of desire to be from America and move to Guangdong Province, or Gujarat, or Tel Aviv.

I’m not in agreement with the acceptance here of fat, dumb Whitey sitting around waiting to be taken over. Convenient fantasy though it may be, America didn’t appear magically, nor does it simply exist independently of the European descendants who built it up and created the combination of freedoms and enterprise we have today. Look at the signatures to the Declaration of Independence. No one is allowed to go there, though, because if white people made the country the magnet that it has become, then maybe they are something more than doddering and irrelevant place keepers, to be replaced at will by the much more industrious and deserving Indians/ Chinese/ Mexicans/ any other group with messianic designs on our country.

Adsas whatever, you read too many opinion articles. I don’t feel any shame or self-loathing, and I’d be willing to bet that most white people don’t, either.

Anonymous said...

Jews were treated well in China during WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_China#World_War_II


Hell, Olmert's father grew up in China.

Svigor said...

"One reason why China won't become a leading superpower is it has no Jews."

That's absurd. You'd be hard pressed to come up with more than one superpower in all of history where Jews played a prominent role. The British Empire did all right for itself for centuries with no Jewish input.


Israel should be the super-mega-ultrapower.

The dominant forces of the last half-millennium have been European. Jews look enough like Europeans to pass, and went where the money was. Now their radical boosters get to claim they were responsible for all the success.

So absurd. Why isn't Israel a film Mecca? Er, let's find something else to talk about!

Svigor said...

Worf, thanks for the replies.

Svigor said...

Adsas whatever, you read too many opinion articles. I don’t feel any shame or self-loathing, and I’d be willing to bet that most white people don’t, either.

White guilt means whites think whites are guilty, not that they are themselves guilty. It's designed to erode and prevent white racial cohesion and loyalty. When a white hears about all the dirty stuff whites get up to (which must be true cuz their teevees told them), they preen because the one thing they know for sure is they never think such thoughts or do such deeds. Then there are the status-mongering whites who use their purity to leverage their status upward. Though I suppose the poor saps who have the occasional rebellious thought do feel guilt on cue.

It's also a substitute for original sin. For some, simply accepting Jesus (denouncing raycissum) is enough; for others, only a lifetime of works can atone, not for any act, but for being born in sin.

Hmm, I guess my theory of white guilt isn't very tight, that stuff is all over the map.

Anonymous said...

@Anon - The loquacious, high IQ Indian American will align with the American Jews

---

USINPAC and Hindu American Foundation have several jewish mentors and advisors and work closely with AIPAC

Anonymous said...

"Right, Einstein was a gentile."

Well, but Henri Poincare certainly was hot on the trail of relativity at the time Einstein published in 1905 and may have beaten Einstein to the punch but didn't get credit.


Henri Poincaré : A decisive contribution to Special Relativity

quote:

In his book “La science et l’hypothèse” (1902), Poincaré devoted a full chapter to the relativity principle: “There is no absolute uniform motion, no physical experience can therefore detect any inertial motion (no force felt), there is no absolute time, saying that two events have the same duration is conventional, as well as saying they are simultaneous is purely conventional as they occur in different places.

http://www.everythingimportant.org/relativity/Poincare.htm

Anonymous said...

At a fundamental level, islam and xtianity attempt to replace judaism and the continued existence of unconverted jews is an affront to followers of islam and xtianity and led to persecution of jews

Whereas Hindus, Buddhists and Confucians are not threated religiously by the jews

Anonymous said...

the continued existence of unconverted jews is an affront to followers of islam and xtianity and led to persecution of jews



Ah, the tales Jews pass down from generation to generation.

Neither the Nazis not the communists were motivated by religion when they persecuted Jews.

Anonymous said...

Interesting how smart guys talk about China as an unconquerable homogeneous and patriotic nation. A century ago China was controlled by the Manchu. Every single queue in the head of a Han chinese you see in the movies is a proof of conquest by an usurper elite. In America, the long array of "racism" "holocaust" "pc" "afirmative action" and the like are the equivalent to the Han chinese queue.

The process of conquest by usurper elite is as old as time. Qing China is a good proof of that.

Anonymous said...

"At a fundamental level, islam and xtianity attempt to replace judaism and the continued existence of unconverted jews is an affront to followers of islam and xtianity and led to persecution of jews"

Actually it is the other way round. The fact that Jews could convert to Islam or Christianity threatened the existence of Jews as a separate people or religion. Not such problems with Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, Shinto and Confucianism though Buddhism could have been dangerous too.

The Wobbly Guy said...

Interesting how smart guys talk about China as an unconquerable homogeneous and patriotic nation. A century ago China was controlled by the Manchu. Every single queue in the head of a Han chinese you see in the movies is a proof of conquest by an usurper elite. In America, the long array of "racism" "holocaust" "pc" "afirmative action" and the like are the equivalent to the Han chinese queue.

And then the conquerors get absorbed. Happened throughout chinese history too.

And that was actually more than two centuries ago. By 1900, the ruling Manchu elite were hardly distinguishable from the Han.

So in some sense, China IS unconquerable. You may rule OVER them, but sooner or later the demographics win out and you just get absorbed.

corvinus said...

"At a fundamental level, islam and xtianity attempt to replace judaism and the continued existence of unconverted jews is an affront to followers of islam and xtianity and led to persecution of jews"

Actually it is the other way round. The fact that Jews could convert to Islam or Christianity threatened the existence of Jews as a separate people or religion. Not such problems with Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, Shinto and Confucianism though Buddhism could have been dangerous too.


Agreed... generally, Jews seem to take conversion of their people to Christianity or Islam very hard. I also wonder what the effect was of absorbing a certain fraction of the Jewish gene pool on European IQ.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

"Right, Einstein was a gentile."

Well, but Henri Poincare certainly was hot on the trail of relativity at the time Einstein published in 1905 and may have beaten Einstein to the punch but didn't get credit."

The work of Hendrik Lorentz and George Fitzgerald also predated Einstein's work. They derived the Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction as a means of explaining the Michaelson-Morley experiment and also salvaging the concept of the Aether. The genius of Einstein's special theory of relativity was that it just did away with the concept of the Aether altogether.

What made Einstein great is that it would have taken three or four extrordinarily brilliant physicists to have done all the things that he did. But had he never lived, those things would have eventually been done. No scientist is indispensible to the progress of science.

Anonymous said...

@Corvinus - Agreed... generally, Jews seem to take conversion of their people to Christianity or Islam very hard.
--

Jews do seem to tolerate buddhist jews and thousands of jews dabble with Hindu gurus and buddhist lamas and dont face heat from their families

Hindus and Sikhs react similarly to conversion to islam or christianity, which is why Nikki Haley and Bobby Jindal are disliked by a sizable minority of the Indian diaspora

In India, conversion to islam among both lower and upper castes leads to outcasting
and among upper castes, conversion to christianity lead to outcasting

Anonymous said...

Hilbert, Poincare, and Lorentz invented special relativity.



Is Einstein was so central curious he never received a Nobel Prize for it.