September 10, 2010

Challenge

 Inductivist notes a striking change from General Social Survey data:

To some extent, this reflects a real change: recent Mexican immigrants tend to be more Indian (darker and relatively shorter) than Mexican immigrants of generations past, who tended to come from northern Mexico. But, mostly, it reflects a change in incentives and prestige in American society. 

In turn, I think this partly explains the remarkable lack of high individual accomplishment by Mexican Americans over the last couple of decades. Consider the country club sports, tennis and golf, in which three Mexican-American all-time greats emerged in the 1940s through 1970s, Pancho Gonzales, Lee Trevino, and Nancy Lopez, but none since then despite vast increases in numbers.

It would appear that contrary to contemporary thinking, Mexican-Americans performed better relative to their numbers when they felt challenged to prove themselves than in recent decades when society has bent over backwards to make all young minorities feel "comfortable" about themselves. In general, and in particular for Mexican Americans, a lack of challenge leads to complacency.

63 comments:

Dennis Dale said...

I know that as late as the Seventies they weren't listing "Hispanic" or an equivalent; I remember a girl getting all militant in middle school when she was told to "just mark white" on a form.
We reasonably expect the trend we see, but I wonder if it doesn't also reflect this sort of thing.

ATBOTL said...

This chart will be right when it gets down to under 2%.

Anonymous said...

The 3 you listed aren't Mestizos are they? Most Mestizos don't look like they can compete at a high level in sports. Lorena Ochoa looks pretty white to me.

Anonymous said...

Brilliant post Steve. Watch this Youtube video on genetic testing of Jessica Alba and watch her face fall when the results are announced.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJW0GPHRW38

Fits in completely with your notion of relative prestige.

Kylie said...

Steve Sailer said..." In general, and in particular for Mexican Americans, a lack of challenge leads to complacency."

That's what you'd expect from any group of people who find they can be lauded (and funded) simply for being, not for doing.

Anonymous said...

"Country club sports"? Seriously? You think its such a big deal that Mexicans haven't "distinguished" themselves in the pastimes of WASPy rich snobs? Do you have any idea how insanely white you are?

Simon in UK said...

Hmm, I think the typical Mexican-American is happy to identify as non-white officially for the goodies, but is equally happy to watch 'white' Hollywood movies (as you have noted) and to identify with the protagonists in a way African-Americans don't. I don't think most Mexicans think they're a different race from Charlie Sheen or Cameron Diaz. Thinking you're an Aztec seems more the province of elite Mexicans and race activists.

Anonymous said...

""Country club sports"? Seriously? You think its such a big deal that Mexicans haven't "distinguished" themselves in the pastimes of WASPy rich snobs? Do you have any idea how insanely white you are?"

Do you have any idea how insanely whiney you are?

It's called anecdotal evidence, jack@ss. You can take other examples and find the same pattern: better performance in other fields for minorities, relative to their numbers, back in the "bad old days" of racism when actual standards were still applied.

Steve Sailer said...

Trevino and Lopez were pretty standard looking mestizos for their generation -- maybe half to 3/4 European. Gonzales, who was tall and extremely athletic, looked about 7/8ths European. But he was a poor kid from East LA -- spent a year in Juvy Hall for burglary. Trevino was dirt poor. Lopez was middle class -- her dad taught her golf.

Anonymous said...

What it really shows, Steve, is that Mexicans, by-and-large, are rejecting Whites, for whatever reason, and setting themselves up as an opposition bloc.
Mexicans realise that 'whiteness' has no advantage and whites are losing their hold on the USA.
Who wants to associate with a waning power?

The Truth Squad said...

"Trevino and Lopez were pretty standard looking mestizos for their generation -- maybe half to 3/4 European. Gonzales, who was tall and extremely athletic, looked about 7/8ths European. But he was a poor kid from East LA -- spent a year in Juvy Hall for burglary. Trevino was dirt poor. Lopez was middle class -- her dad taught her golf."

Ritchie Valens also looked mestizo.

Truth is this: most people in Mexico are mestizo.

That is a fact.

Even the so-called "whites" of Mexico have a bit (like 1/4 to 1/8) of Indian blood.

Mexico never had a "one drop" rule for whiteness, and the constant revolutions meant that hard charging mestizos or even full blooded Indians would move up the ranks every so often and marry light skinned Mexican girls.

That is why race is a much more elastic concept in Mexico (and also much of South America).

Very few people, aside from immigrant families, can claim to be "pure" European.

Anonymous said...

Didn't Steve Sailer once point out that 50 million white Americans are slightly black? I wonder how black those white Americans are, on average. I think we may get to a point in the future, where most white Americans can no longer claim to be of pure European blood either.

Anonymous said...

You can take other examples and find the same pattern: better performance in other fields for minorities, relative to their numbers, back in the "bad old days" of racism when actual standards were still applied.

The answer then, is a wholehearted embrace of meritocratic standards. Not traditional standards, i.e. be a WASP or be expected to shine my shoes.

Anonymous said...

It's funny.

When Mexicans or blacks complain about racism, we are quick to dismiss such claims as illegitimate in some sense.

But, what about Lawrence Auster who accuses Pat Buchanan of anti-semitism?

Auster is actually pretty whiney.

Peter A said...

To some extent, this reflects a real change:...But, mostly, it reflects a change in incentives and prestige in American society.

I don't think so Steve. I think it reflects a real change. Just think back about the sort of Mexican faces one would typically see in the early 70s and the kind of Mexican you see now. We used to get Mexican immigrants from Northern Mexico - who typically are mestizo or mostly European. For the last 10-20 years most of the immigrants have been full blooded Native Americans from places like Chiapas. I certainly don't consider them "white" in any way.

Anonymous said...

"Watch this Youtube video on genetic testing of Jessica Alba and watch her face fall when the results are announced. "

Too funny. Of course, on a stroll through Home Depot or Chuck-E-Cheese's you can see how being 25% or more Mexican Indian might be a handicap in show business.

Funny how jokes about the Missing Link have disappeared from TV and society in the Age of Diversity.

ironrailsironweights said...

Hmm, I think the typical Mexican-American is happy to identify as non-white officially for the goodies

It's not actually necessary. Just being of Mexican descent is sufficient to qualify for affirmative action benefits regardless of specific race.

Peter

Anonymous said...

Why would you self-identify as a loser?

White=privileged, feminine, wimpy, fat.

N0n-white=hot, masculine, ass kicker, trim, hardworking.

Anonymous said...

Brilliant post Steve. Watch this Youtube video on genetic testing of Jessica Alba and watch her face fall when the results are announced.

Great video. I saw something similar with Professor Gates on PBS when he did a DNA test on Eva Longoria. She seemed disappointed to be 70% white.

Anonymous said...

"What it really shows, Steve, is that Mexicans, by-and-large, are rejecting Whites, for whatever reason, and setting themselves up as an opposition bloc.
Mexicans realize that 'whiteness' has no advantage and whites are losing their hold on the USA.
Who wants to associate with a waning power?"

Whites still seem to be running Mexico and most other Latin American countries. My prediction is that Amerindians will thoroughly mix with poor low IQ whites, essentially making the white working class disappear into a sea of brown. Remaining whites will solidify their position of influence in upper management and in the skilled trades. (In Oakland, CA, if you call a random electrician or plumber, a white guy still shows up -- more often than not he graduated from some local college like Berkeley or SFSU.

Rohan Swee said...

The youtube video of Miss Alba was very funny - the funny being in

1) the fact that anybody whose brain hasn't been addled by PC could easily correctly estimate the she was around "87% European", just by looking at her, and

2) the way she was pleading for reassurance from Lopez that Spain didn't count as "European".

I remember being told by older male relatives that suggesting to their Cuban or Puerto Rican friends that they weren't white was a good way to get yourself beaten to a pulp.

Mac said...

"Brilliant post Steve. Watch this Youtube video on genetic testing of Jessica Alba and watch her face fall when the results are announced.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJW0GPHRW38

Fits in completely with your notion of relative prestige"


You know, I remember 10-12 years ago when Dark Angel was going a young Jessica Alba was interviewed by Maxim. The interviewer asked her about her ethnicity or heritage and she replied (I'm paraphrasing), "Well, my mom is this or that, my dad is Mexican/Latino something something, but I've always thought of myself as just an American."

She didn't deny her ancestry, but she didn't dwell on it. I don't follow her career but nowadays she seems to have come out swinging for Team Raza.

Sigh

stari_momak said...

That George Lopez, DNA stuff is pretty interesting, 'Anonymous'. Can you imagine a white talk show host doing something like that?

It is also interesting how uniformly *bad* it is to discover white ancestry. I do have my doubts as to the accuracy of the tests or their interpretation. Larry David 37% 'native American' -- get out!

Wanderer said...

Mexicans realise that 'whiteness' has no advantage and whites are losing their hold on the USA. Who wants to associate with a waning power?

I'd call the attention of all to the youtube posted earlier: Jessica Alba's DNA test. There is no better exemplification of the truth of the anon comment quoted here, than the banter and the attitudes on clear display by all in that video.

That video goes to show just how much the cockamamie line of "Institutional Racism [by whites against nonwhites]" is wrong. The exact opposite is true. Whiteness is something to be ashamed of, mocked, and looked down upon in our culture. That has been aggressively true for at least a decade now. (Before that it was less flagrant and more subtle). I'd call that "institutional"!

Udolpho.com said...

I am inclined to think the reason for the shift in identification is mostly the type of Mexican that has been pouring over the border. Less upper class Euro, more fat, squat, and dumb as a rock (and fiercely proud of it) Mestizo. See them all over the place in Dallas. And their culture is already 99.999% of what you saw in Idiocracy. Get used to them, they are going to increasingly define your society.

Dutch Boy said...

She did't get the name "Alba" for nothing!

Justthisguy said...

I can claim to be pure European. With the exception of one English great-grandmother who came over on a steamship (ugh!) in the nineteenth century, I am entirely descended from British Protestants who were here before the Revolution. No Micks or Krauts in my ancestry, as far as I know.

Anonymous said...

I'm shocked that you could mention Pancho Gonzales (Big Pancho) without mentioning Pancho Segura (Little Pancho). When I was a kid I thought that Mexicans were natural tennis players just as Russian women were natural shot putters. Boy was I wrong.

The crazy quasi linguistic and/or ethnic term "Hispanic" continues to confuse. The majority of illegal aliens who you see here in Oakland are not Hispanics at all. They are Mayans for whom Spanish is a second or third language. I took Spanish in high school so am I an Hispanic too?

No one is allowed anymore to call the indigenous peoples of the Americas Indians. It is indeed confusing when we now have so many Indians from India. And in an effort to associate themselves with a people who actually have had some civilizational accomplishments, African Americans started to claim that Indians were really just like them - "people of color".

Jose Carreras of the "Three Tenors" was born in Spain but didn't learn Spanish until he was six when his family moved to Mexico. He first spoke Catalan. Of all the claims on "Hispanic" identity actually being from Spain seems to be the least strong.

Most people seem to mean Indian when they say Hispanic. It's not my fault if that makes so little sense.

Albertosaurus

Kylie said...

Anonymous said..."'Country club sports'? Seriously? You think its such a big deal that Mexicans haven't 'distinguished' themselves in the pastimes of WASPy rich snobs? Do you have any idea how insanely white you are?"

Steve asks us to consider a field in which several Mexican-Americans of earlier generations distinguished themselves and his example is a good one. Even I, who don't follow sports, recognized their names.

Let me repeat: he asked us to consider an example because it's well-known how well they did. Not because he thought it only right and proper that these dark-skinned non-WASPs take up the pastimes of WASPy white snobs and thought it wrong that later generations have not followed suit. He was not making a moral judgment, he didn't even used that tired phrase, "failing to assimilate". And I doubt he gives a damn who plays what sport as long as they play it well.

Do you have any idea how insanely white you come across? Reading not for content or in context but in the hopes of catching some white guy failing your litmus test for racism so you can pounce on him.

I'm betting you're youngish (certainly under 40, probably under ), raised in a nearly all white environment and oh yes, colij-educated.

If you wanted to do penance for your whiteness, move to Detroit and start collective farming.

kurt9 said...

I have noticed that the Mexicans in Mexico look more "white" than the recent immigrants here in the U.S.

The CIA has Mexico's fertility rate at 2.2, just above replacement and falling fast and Guatemala's fertility rate at 4.0, the highest in the Western Hemisphere. Mexico is 70% white/mestizo and 30% native American (Southern Mexico and Yucatan). Since the Native American Mexicans are probably the same as the Guatemalans, it is likely they have similar fertility rates. If so, simply calculation shows that white/mestizo fertility rate has to be around 1.6 at the most, which is apparent in my recent trips to Mexico.

This would explain why the "hispanic" immigration fertility rate, at 3.0, is higher than that of Mexico as a whole.

Anonymous said...

In an era where Jessica Alba can proclaim with a straight face that she is a person of color you just know something wacky is going on...

Anonymous said...

There were never that many whites in Mexico to begin with, and the ones that came were mostly men. Supposedly at one point there were more Africans brought there than the number of Europeans who were a part of the country. Mexicans are basically Indians with some having varying amounts of admixture.

Rohan Swee said...

justthisguy: I can claim to be pure European. With the exception of one English great-grandmother who came over on a steamship (ugh!) in the nineteenth century, I am entirely descended from British Protestants who were here before the Revolution. No Micks or Krauts in my ancestry, as far as I know.

Miss Alba will be relieved to know that. If Ireland and Germany don't count as European, than Spaniards can probably score a "get out of white" pass, too.

(Just for the record, it is possible to have krauts and micks stinkin' up the family tree, who were here pre-revolution. I do.)

The Truth Squad said...

"Mexicans are basically Indians with some having varying amounts of admixture."

This is not technically true.

I saw a paper that estimated the percentage of white (Euro) and Indian ancestry of the average Mexican based on thousands of DNA samples taken throughout Mexico.

The results where about 50/50 white/Indian for the average Mexican.

Like I said before, Mexico is a mestizo nation.

A better term for Mexicans other than he word "Hispanic" (since that seems to bother so many on this site), would be mestizo. Or to just classify them as "mixed race."

Also, to everyone who says only pure Indians come the US now: you are wrong.

These people are mestizos.

The number of "pure" Indians is actually lower than what is officially reported in the CIA World Factbook (just like the number of "pure" whites is lower than what is reported there as well), and DNA samples from throughout the country have proven this.

Rohan Swee said...

kylie: If you wanted to do penance for your whiteness, move to Detroit and start collective farming.

Somewhere out there, the hour's young Mao is noting that down under "things to do with SWPLs who want internal exilin', come the revolution".

Wanderer said...

Another surreal thing about the Alba video:

She claimed her result would "probably" be "more Native-American [than anything else]" {see 1:10-1:25 in video}. Yet her mother is of French-Canadian and Danish descent. Plus, she recognizes some paternal ancestors are known to be from Spain.

So: There is no way she could be "more Native-American" than European. Yet she stated she "probably" would be.

Is that what Orwell meant by "doublethink"?

stari_momak said...

Zero European 'blood', quiche Maya speaking Mexicans cross the border and become 'Latinos'. Rudolph Giuliani or Joe Gazzardi are 'Anglos'. Go figure.

Re: Carreras, it is more than likely that Spanish was second language for Gaspar Portola and Junipero Serra -- both Catalans. The absence of any distinctly Catalan place names in Cali is somewhat surprising, the only one I know of is a Montserrat in North Eastern San Diego county.

Meanwhile, down in Bolivia...

Morales dice que es su obligaciĆ³n "erradicar a los racistas" que posean medios de comunicaciĆ³n

ricpic said...

What single event, more than any other, forced the assimilation of earlier waves of immigrants? The Immigration Act of 1924, which cut legal immigration to a trickle. Would Italian immigrants have had any incentive to think of and turn themselves into Americans if there had been a continuing stream of new Italian immigrants and ever expanding Italian neighborhoods in which they could live their entire lives in but not of America?

Mark Wethman said...

Kurt9:

Southern Mexico does has a higher tfr than northern Mexico, but it's not drastically higher.

As of 2000, Yucatan, which is the most indigenous state in Mexico (60%) has a tfr or 2.21. Oaxaca, Quinta Roo, Chiapas and Campeche (the states with the highest percentage of native Americans in descending order after Yucatan) are at 2.92, 2.4, 2.94 and 2.26, respectively.

The highest tfr in Mexico is Guerrero at 3.03. The lowest tfr is Mexico City at 1.8, followed by a couple of states at 2.12.

http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/completingfertility/RevisedTUIRAN-PARTIDApaper.PDF

Mark Wethman said...

Kurt9:

Southern Mexico does has a higher tfr than northern Mexico, but it's not drastically higher.

As of 2000, Yucatan, which is the most indigenous state in Mexico (60%) has a tfr or 2.21. Oaxaca, Quinta Roo, Chiapas and Campeche (the states with the highest percentage of native Americans in descending order after Yucatan) are at 2.92, 2.4, 2.94 and 2.26, respectively.

The highest tfr in Mexico is Guerrero at 3.03. The lowest tfr is Mexico City at 1.8, followed by a couple of states at 2.12.

http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/completingfertility/RevisedTUIRAN-PARTIDApaper.PDF

Anonymous said...

Another surreal thing about the Alba video:

She claimed her result would "probably" be "more Native-American [than anything else]" {see 1:10-1:25 in video}. Yet her mother is of French-Canadian and Danish descent. Plus, she recognizes some paternal ancestors are known to be from Spain.

So: There is no way she could be "more Native-American" than European. Yet she stated she "probably" would be.

Is that what Orwell meant by "doublethink"?


Absolutely. This sort of lunacy is common.

Someone recently told me (a white person naturally, no-one else believes this nonsense) that because of racial mixing, Im just more likely to be related to some random African than a random white guy walking past me in the street. Therefore I must share more ancestors with random black guy than I do with random white guy.

Yet I look white, and I can drive over to my parents and see them and you know what? Yep, they look white too and although my grandparents are all gone now I distinctly remember them all being white too.

So Im supposed to share significant ancestry with an African but look white, therefore one or both my parents must have had even greater African ancestry than me and since they dont appear to be black there must be an even greater level of African ancestry at the grandparent level.

And Ive got pictures of my great grandparents, they dont appear to black either.

So where is this large degree of Arican ancestry supposed to have come from? You dont need any knowledge of DNA, just a bit of family history to see this melting pot crap is just that.

stari_momak said...

I can't believe I researched this, but I did...anyways, maybe Jessica Alba should get cut some slack as she was Mau-Mau'ed a few years ago.

http://www.popcrunch.com/jessica-alba-hates-mexicans-doesnt-want-to-be-called-latina/

Of course she did the full contrition, and 'has hired a "professor of Hispanic studies"' to teach her and her spawn Spanish. So we go from the grandfather wanting to assimilate to the grandaughter wanting to be Mexican.

Anonymous said...

Regarding Jessica Alba, she did an interview a few years ago talking about how had a typical all-American childhood and didn't feel very Hispanic. She also talked about how her grandfather refused to allow his children to speak Spanish and how at some wards show, she took her father as her date and George Lopex came up to them and introduced himself in Spanish, and dad snapped at him "I don't speak Mexican."


Well, the press both Latin and mainstream jumped all over her, and she suddenlt became very Hispanic, saying she wanted to learn Spanish so she could talk to her grandfather in his native language (yeah, the same guy who insisted his kids speak only English) and how she wanted a brown baby. And yes, when she and very (only slightly) black husband eventually had a baby it turned out very pink and light-haried.

TGGP said...

Wanderer, I think thinking is not here strong-suit.

David said...

>I remember being told by older male relatives that suggesting to their Cuban or Puerto Rican friends that they weren't white was a good way to get yourself beaten to a pulp.<

Ha! This has flipped 180. Nowadays suggesting that such people *are* white seems to be a good way to get yourself beaten to a pulp.

Whiteness is now very unpopular among people with even just a drop of non-white in their arteries.

Is what perturbed Alba learning that she can't say, with Tonto, "What you me 'we,' white man?" (For those unfamiliar with the joke, just Bing that phrase.)

An Unmarried Man said...

Wanderer said...
...
Is that what Orwell meant by "doublethink"?...

No it just means she a dumbshit bimbo. Those come in all colors.

I think it's very amusing that I come from some pretty mestizo-looking people on my dad's side (Central Mexico) whereas my mom's side hails from Monterey which is bit more "European." I look very Mexican yet act and speak more "white" than many Mexican acquaintances who look much more Anglo than I do.

Mitch said...

To some extent, this reflects a real change: recent Mexican immigrants tend to be more Indian (darker and relatively shorter) than Mexican immigrants of generations past, who tended to come from northern Mexico. But, mostly, it reflects a change in incentives and prestige in American society.


I'd flip that. I've taught at two heavily Hispanic schools, taught low income Hispanic students test prep, and (as I know you have) simply lived in California for a long time. I can't think of any Hispanics who could pass for white. I dispute that it mostly reflects a change of incentives and prestige, and is almost entirely genetic/racial in origin. The vast majority of Hispanics in California these days are not white in any sense of the word.

They might be readier to acknowledge it than in years past, but they aren't pretending to be Hispanic when they could "pass" for white.

Steve Sailer said...

"Someone recently told me (a white person naturally, no-one else believes this nonsense) that because of racial mixing, Im just more likely to be related to some random African than a random white guy walking past me in the street."

I see that exact assertion all the time on the Internet.

It was like when DeCode Genetics announced in 2007 that James D. Watson was one-fourth nonwhite in total and one-sixth black. It was a big news story for a few days. But Watson had published his autobiography a couple of months before, and it was full of pictures and detailed biographical information about his parents, grandparents, uncles, great-grandparents, and so forth. His maternal grandparents were born in Ireland and Scotland, so they're out. His father's brother had been chairman of the physics department at Yale in 1940. Was was Watson's uncle really 1/3rd black and nobody noticed for 70 years? Wouldn't there be a PBS special about him?

Now, after I drew their attention to all this, DeCode Genetics today says about Watson, in effect, "Never mind ..." But, as far as I can tell, I was the only person on the Internet to question the plausibility of their assertion.

I don't think many people today understand the basic genetic arithmetic of genealogy. It's extremely simple, but people just don't get it. They don't understand that if you say Watson is 1/4th nonwhite and if you can rule out his mother's side of his family as being zero nonwhite, that means his father and all his full siblings _had_ to be half nonwhite, which you might think somebody at Yale would have noticed in 1940. But, no, it's all one drop thinking. Nobody can do genealogical arithmetic in their head.

Anonymous said...

What single event, more than any other, forced the assimilation of earlier waves of immigrants? The Immigration Act of 1924, which cut legal immigration to a trickle. Would Italian immigrants have had any incentive to think of and turn themselves into Americans if there had been a continuing stream of new Italian immigrants and ever expanding Italian neighborhoods in which they could live their entire lives in but not of America?

True limiting immigration helped facilitate assimilation. However, consider this. First, only 5 million Italians came to the US from 1609 to 1958. During the same period almost 7 million Germans came. Thus we have more illegal aliens alive today than all the Germans and Italians who ever came to America in over 300 years. So the Italians and Germans weren't around in big enough numbers to form their own nations.

Second, learning English back then served another purpose in addition to assimilating. Germans, Italians, Poles, Greeks and others had to learn English just so they could communicate with each other let alone blend into the mainstream American population.

Today, we have large communities of Mexicans, Salvadorans, Guatemalans, Dominicans, etc. who already have a common language, Spanish. Therefore, there is less incentive to learn English because folks in these new communities can probably spend their whole lives living and doing business with one another without needing to learn another language.

Anonymous said...

Much of this talk about what the DNA tests supposedly show is counterintuitive. My lying eyes show James Watson to be about as white as a person gets. Also that many Mexican citizens, living in large swaths of their country, are as Indian as can be. A lot of the results from these so-called tests appear to be balderdash.

Cicero said...

"I don't think many people today understand the basic genetic arithmetic of genealogy. It's extremely simple, but people just don't get it. They don't understand that if you say Watson is 1/4th nonwhite and if you can rule out his mother's side of his family as being zero nonwhite, that means his father and all his full siblings _had_ to be half nonwhite, which you might think somebody at Yale would have noticed in 1940. But, no, it's all one drop thinking. Nobody can do genealogical arithmetic in their head."

On that note, I'd like to bring up the curious case of two former presidents of Brazil, reputed to be the most mixed nation in the Americas.

The first example is Jose Sarney. Sarney came from a relatively poor, rural, farming family that had lived in Brazil since colonial times. Plus they were from the Northeast, the region that recieved the largest amount of African slaves and very little European immigration after independence. Surely Sarney must have some African ancestry? Well, when he took a DNA test a few years back, his autosomal results came out at 99.9% European and 0.1%African, which is for all intents and purposes statistical noise. Sarney himself did not know of any African ancestors in his family, and it seems the test supported that. But you can take a look for yourself.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Brazil.JoseSarney.01.jpg

The other example is that of Fernando Henrique Cardoso, a man who claims to be part African through a great-great-grandmother. The thing is that Cardoso's family was quite prominent in Brazil going back to colonial times, and their geneology well mapped, and yet this ancestor has to my knowledge never been properly identified, least of all by Cardoso. Some people found it hard to believe that Cardoso had any such ancestry, and claimed he was trying to appeal to the actual Afro-Brazilian population through a cheap political ploy. And even if it is true does it manner from a practical perspective? Let's look at a photo:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Brazil.FernandoHenriqueCardoso.01.jpg

What I take away from it is that while genetics are very important, culture, self-perception, and even phenotype have a more practical bearing on everyday life when it comes to how we handle race.

Truth said...

"It was like when DeCode Genetics announced in 2007 that James D. Watson was one-fourth nonwhite in total and one-sixth black...."

So, I take it this means that Jessica Alba's DNA test was legit, but Watson's was, what, a mistake? a liberal Zionist trick?

Dutch Boy said...

Justthisguy said...

I can claim to be pure European. With the exception of one English great-grandmother who came over on a steamship (ugh!) in the nineteenth century, I am entirely descended from British Protestants who were here before the Revolution. No Micks or Krauts in my ancestry, as far as I know.

FYI: the fact that your ancestors have been in America for a long time makes you less likely than a Mick or Kraut to be all European(America having a large non-white population for a long time and Europe almost none until lately).

John said...

The results where about 50/50 white/Indian for the average Mexican.

Like I said before, Mexico is a mestizo nation.


I highly doubt there is or will be much European blood entering the gene pool of Mexico, whereas it's likely that some will come from more Indio Central and South America, so, while still Mestizo, the percentage of Euro blood will likely be shrinking in Mexico.

As to our recent immigrants, they are far more Indio than the Mexicans I grew up with in the 60s and 70s in Southern California. I recently lived in Miami and I can tell you that the sometimes hundreds of Illegal day laborers that were at the local Home Depot on any given morning had little apparent Euro blood. I'd estimate they were 80 to 90% Native American, most being very dark, and standing between 5' and 5'6.

Though they might despise and resent whites, deep down, Mestizos know that whites create functional societies and their genetic kin do not. It's why they all come here and practically none leave here for there, protestations about 'whiteness' being lame notwithstanding. They know the real score, even the ones who have made it, like Alba and Lopez.

Svigor said...

‘Machete’ Review: Dull, Convoluted, Racist and Anti-American

Check out the comments (#6).

Heh, just what the hell is your deal, Rotgut? Multiple personality disorder, or what?

Svigor said...

Well, the press both Latin and mainstream jumped all over her, and she suddenlt became very Hispanic, saying she wanted to learn Spanish so she could talk to her grandfather in his native language (yeah, the same guy who insisted his kids speak only English) and how she wanted a brown baby. And yes, when she and very (only slightly) black husband eventually had a baby it turned out very pink and light-haried.

A Hollywood career means lying. Or acting off-set, if you want to be nice about it.

Trivial example, I just watched a bit of an extra from the first season of ALIAS and Jennifer Garner was clearly lying (a flat-out lie from a poor liar to anyone who knows the basics of body language) when she said she'd love to do another underwater scene (she did a scene where her character drives a car off a pier); it was obvious it scared the crap out of her or was in some other way unpleasant and she'd hate to have to do it again.

If they're being recorded, they're acting.

Svigor said...

Steve, it seems that someone at Taki's site has corrected the spelling in the URL of your Inglourious Basterds review and now most of the links I see are broken.

Svigor said...

Whoops, sorry, Rotgut's comment is #6 on the second page.

Anonymous said...

Truth - So, I take it this means that Jessica Alba's DNA test was legit, but Watson's was, what, a mistake? a liberal Zionist trick?

Could be.

Sh might actually be 100% euro.

Mark Caplan said...

I too was surprised not to see '50s tennis great Pancho Segura mentioned...until I learned he was from Ecuador.

Anonymous said...

That Alba video was revealing. Oprah Winfrey thought she was more Indian then black? You ever look at yourself in a mirror Oprah? As for Alba anyone with half a brain can look at here and see she is mostly White. Just don't believe your lying eyes folks.

Anonymous said...

Decode Genetics did indeed screw up on that Watson analysis. As is well known within the field, the 454 reads had an excess of heterozygous calls and gave a spurious overestimate of African ancestry based on putatively higher levels of variation. That's why decode never published.

Anonymous said...

There are more Mexicans moving into the area here, a state with a large American Indian population. I can't tell the difference between the Mexicans and the Indians until they open their mouths. I'd guess there's a lot of indigeous blood in the Mexican immigrants.