September 8, 2010

Making an effort

Gizmodo has an article analyzing 526,000 profiles on the dating site OKcupid in terms of most racially distinctive common phrases (not the most common phrases, but the most different). The white guy list starts off, in order of distinctiveness by race:
tom clancy, van halen, golfing, harley davidson, ghostbusters, phish, the big lebowski, soundgarden, brew, boating, nofx, groundhog day, hockey, jeep, blazing saddles, the red sox, the dropkick murphys, megadeth, grilling, ccr, robert heinlein, boats, skiing, zappa, nascar

White women start off:
the red sox, jodi picoult, boating, nascar

Guys, do you notice something here? Girls are at least pretending to like stuff you might like, such as the Red Sox and Nascar. They're making an effort

Not all guys are this stubborn. For example, here's the top of the Latino male list:
merengue, bachata, colombian, hispanic, latino, dominican, stationed, peruvian, reggaeton, familia, cuban, musica, salsa, soccer, amigos, peru, boxing, automotive, baseball, hola, marines, mma, hip hop, ufc *

The first two on the lists are dances. Latino guys know that Latina girls like to dance, so they claim to like to dance, too.

It's really not that complicated, but an awful lot of white guys treat making any sort of effort to be able to fake an interest in anything girls might want to talk about as a sure way to get cooties.

* By the way, it's interesting that "Mexican" doesn't show up on the Latino list. Is that because "Mexican food" shows up on other people's profiles, so "Mexican" is not racially distinctive enough. Or is "Mexican" kind of the unimpressive default for Latinos, and everybody who can claim to be something else wants to specify they aren't Mexican?
 

93 comments:

Anonymous said...

Anecdotally I noticed a similar difference in Match.com profiles. Both males and females (at least white ones) say "I love to travel", women will say "I like sports" whereas men seem to say "I want a woman who likes sports." In other words, women claim they like something guys like, while men don't make the effort.

Roger Chailelt said...

"You're a Mexican, aren't you?"

"I'm an American."

Or so I said to a young "Latina" barmaid a few years ago.

Of course I knew she was Mexican.

I was looking right at her, and could see the strong epicanthic folds in her eyes.

In the next breath she proceeded to tell me she was transferring to the University of Texas at Austin from a junior college. She wanted to become a "professor."

Wonder if she had to pay for her education as an "American"?

not a hacker said...

the question that'll never be answered is whether the guys who say they like swing-dancing actually do. The best line from the entire Seinfeld series was when Jerry's date said, "you don't go dancing that much?" to which Jerry replied, "No, because it's so stupid."

elvisd said...

Slow day, Steve? Getting a little deep in the minutiae here.

Anonymous said...

This is because what women like is irredeemably stupid and/or offensive. Nascar may be boring to watch for a girl, but think of its opposite- Sex and the City. That's not boring, it's gutter filth, and also one of the most popular womens' tv shows around. Can you really just pretend to like that, or even the people that like that. Cooties are real Steve.

TD said...

Kind of fascinating that "Justin Timberlake" is a phrase that distinguishes (female) blacks from whites.

I mean, I knew the guy had a hood pass, but I figured he had a healthy suburban one too.

Who's the last white R&B singer (note: not talking hip-hop/Eminem) to make such an impact in the black community? Hall & Oates? Michael McDonald? I know Robin Thicke has a big following among the sistas, but he's still a fringe celebrity.

SFG said...

Be careful of regional bias...OKC started in Boston by Harvard students, and the Red Sox are NOT the most popular team in America. If they're that high it still suggests market penetration is greatest in New England. Where are the Yankees?

John said...

Is it any mystery why guys don't make the "effort"? Any guy presenting himself as an aficionado of romantic comedies or long walks on the beach at sunset immediately positions himself as a doofus who is trying too hard. Despite what they may say, most women want their men to be men.

RR said...

It has been my experience that Latin men really do like merengue, bachata and salsa. Especially merengue and bachata, being that they are pelvis-grinding dances. I can understand that.

Anonymous said...

White women actually like Nascar, man. At least, the "wrong kind" of white person.

RandyB said...

Even though they're not listed here, most singles profiles claim to like "walks on the beach;" so why doesn't everyone just go walk on the beach and not bother with Match.com?

Anonymous said...

The latinos are making a mistake. Girls do not want a guy who is interested in what they are interested in - otherwise they would date gay men. girls want a man.

mutecypher said...

Another way of looking at it is that men are being honest and women are being less so.

Or that men say "this is who I am" and women say "this is what I'm willing to try to accommodate."

Isn't cynicism at least as enlightening as irony?

Anonymous said...

"blazing saddles" made me lol

Camlost said...

On Match.com the black males always mug for the camera with their shirts off, and pose like hip hoppers. There's zero sense of modesty or decorum.

I'm also surprised that "playa" wasn't one of the major terms that blacks use.

Severn said...

Come on, I see lots of guys saying stuff like "I like long walks on moonlit beaches, and candle-lit dinners". Both sexes lie a little in the pursuit of a mate.

Anonymous said...

How bout this one:

I'll go shopping with you in exchange for sex.

Honest and win/win? Should be a hit no?

Jokah Macpherson said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

yeah - what is with every other girl listing 'red sox' in these profiles? it's so tiresome. and the whole traveling thing. i know why women say they love to travel. they are empty. their morality is as situational and fickle as their emotions. that's why women are much more likely to fuck someone they meet during vacation.

Anonymous said...

Well I sure better go anonymous to make this comment :-) :

In my experience, not very many women really are interested in that many things remote from their personal lives in the same way that a lot of guys are (although certainly not all guys). Compare men's magazines--full of articles about all kinds of stuff in the world--with women's magazines--full of articles about how to make yourself more attractive to men.

So my question is: do women really WANT a guy who is super interested in "the same stuff I'm interested in"? I don't know that they do.

And thus, when you look at dating websites, are guys really failing to make an effort that would be regarded by females in any positive way?

To answer this, we would need to run an experiment: take identical male profiles and add to them some gestures of interest in feminine things. My bet is that these profiles would get no extra interest from females and maybe less (even if it was done artfully enough that it didn't make the heterosexuality of the guys seem questionable).

Eric said...

Guys, do you notice something here? Girls are at least pretending to like stuff you might like, such as the Red Sox and Nascar. They're making an effort.

I guess it depends on what you're after. If it's just sex, sure, tell her whatever she wants to hear. But if you're looking for something a bit more serious, aren't you better off finding someone with similar interests? I mean, that girl who loves to dance might start to wonder what she's doing with someone who never takes her dancing.

bleach said...

Malcolm Gladwell is lighting up the Asian charts.

Davout said...

Isn't it most often women who are always bothering men to be honest? It appears white men have listened to them. The law of unintended consequences strikes yet again.

Anonymous said...

Women don't want men who are interested in the things women are interested in.

Knitting would be a plus only if the rest of your description said you were a special forces instructor who hunted javelinas with his bear hands.

Also, the feminization and homosexualization of our society makes white men scared to let loose at all, lest they give the wrong impression. Mexican men are more patriarchal, so they can afford to appeal.

Wanderer said...

mutecypher said it best above.

Anonymous said...

i know why women say they love to travel. they are empty. their morality is as situational and fickle as their emotions. that's why women are much more likely to fuck someone they meet during vacation.

According to some Roissy-esque blog I read some time back, "I love to travel" is woman-code for "I'm a slut."

Bob said...

On dating websites I think about 25% or so women mention liking pro sports or mention a particular team. Yet has anyone ever heard of a heterosexual woman paying for tickets to a pro sport to go by herself or with female friends? Ever? How about playing fantasy sports online?

I know several women who played college sports on top teams, and even they have never mentioned liking pro sports.

I just read this "I am a fairly masculine woman from a blue collar family where the men are superfans so I will humor your superfandom because I'm used to it."

Svigor said...

Isn't it most often women who are always bothering men to be honest? It appears white men have listened to them. The law of unintended consequences strikes yet again.

Nobody's mentioned homosexuality; if you're black women will let you get away with a purple suit. If you're white, not so much.

Bob said...

Speaking of online dating, I have had huge success. Ignore "game" Roissy, kino, and all that other BS unless you really want to date a girl dumb enough to fall for such BS.

Here is what you do:

1. Make a nice profile that is short and has photos taken of you outdoors approved by your cutest friend.

2. Aim for girls you actually would like to date. Take the time to write them a 3-4 sentence message that ends with a question. Or go with a single short question if you can think of something pithy. Look them up on facebook and friend them.

3. Here is the key for the first or second date: invite the girl to a restaurant with a bar near the entrance that is walking distance to your place. Sorry if you live in suburbia or mom's house and lack this, I can't help you with that.

4. Get there early, sit at the BAR and order a light appetizer and two gender-neutral drinks like rum and cokes or whiskey sours. Start with yours.

5. Get the booze in her as fast as possible. Set a good example. This makes actual meaningful conversations and emotional connections much easier. Protip: if she is stalling on the last couple sips, finish her drink for her and order another one for both of you.

6. Hold her hand after the first drink, kiss her closed mouth on the lips after the second.

7. Walk back to your place with her and try for sex.

8. For the next date, say "I had so much fun let's go back there." Repeat until the sex actually happens.

9. If a girl seems very conservative make date #1 a scenic walk around your neighborhood, ending with a drink and a kiss. The early evening bar date described above should instead be the second date.

Kevin K said...

Sometimes Steve speaks as if only nerds read this website. I wonder why that is?

stari_momak said...

"Malcolm Gladwell is lighting up the Asian charts."

LOL

Anonymous said...

"But if you're looking for something a bit more serious, aren't you better off finding someone with similar interests?"

You're missing the point. Women don't have any interests. Kids, gossip, insincerity, relationships, backstabbing, trying to make others jealous: should those really be called interests? If you let a woman know through non-verbal cues that you expect her to have real interests, she will immediately pretend to have them. If you actually fall for that ruse, she will end up respecting you less for it.

stari_momak said...

Asian girls are really interested in Hispanic (white) 'body poppers'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH0iQ1FVFRU

LBD said...

Oh, Anonymous! "The latinos are making a mistake. Girls do not want a guy who is interested in what they are interested in - otherwise they would date gay men. girls want a man." You could not be more wrong. In Latin American culture, dancing is seen as masculine and most guys not only like it but do it well. It's one of the few things I miss about hanging out with South Americans. It's a genuine cultural difference. In Latin American circles, a guy who DOESN'T dance is seen as a bit "light in the loafers" :)

My hubby is very nearly perfect, but like most non-latinos is not a dancer at all, he feels very awkward even when we MUST dance (for example, at a wedding).

Andrew said...

I guess whites and NAM's are about equally interested in "steve sailer," so it doesn't show up in either list!

Anonymous said...

I could never understand why men in general despise 'Sex and the City'. I'm a white heterosexual male who doesn't live in New York. If you like lighthearted, witty banter, just watch any episode from Season 2 to 4. Except for the bits which involve Samantha, as she is just a foolish clown put in the show for comic relief.

Anonymous said...

Pretending to give a shit what girls like is beta, especially because they can always tell you're faking it just to get into their panties.

Kylie said...

Anonymous said..."Well I sure better go anonymous to make this comment :-) :

In my experience, not very many women really are interested in that many things remote from their personal lives in the same way that a lot of guys are (although certainly not all guys)."

That's been my experience, too, and I am a woman. There are a handful of women whose company and conversation I enjoy. But so many women so often seem to need to make everything personal. For example, if they enjoy a movie, it's usually a romcom and usually because they like the sets and costumes or because they can identify with the female lead's romantic or family problems. You can't discuss camera angles or underlying themes or character actors with them. For the most part, they just don't care except about what they can relate to personally. I find the boredom excruciating.

Whiskey said...

Steve, your error is in thinking like a man. Women don't search dating sites for a guy who is "compatible." They search for a guy who is HOT. I.E., Alpha Male dominance and attractiveness.

Now, there are deal-breakers. But say, if Charlie Sheen was on OKCupid, posted he liked say, Death-Metal, that's not the deal breaker it would be for say, Jim the Accountant at Fluor.

Most important are photos (visual evidence of hotness), height/age, job, some smart saying that indicates aloof a-hole status. All else is just meaningless noise for the most part.

Davout said...

I notice a lot of women like to eat but not cook. Asian and PI women mention it toward the bottom.

Thank you feminism.

jody said...

i have never even heard of jodi picoult. had to google that name. must be a big deal to women and yet i am utterly oblivious.

heck i have even heard of that book "skinny bitch". but jodi picoult? not a single human has mentioned that name around me, nor have i ever encountered it on the web.

Anonymous said...

Bob, you detail a list of things to do to get a women to have sex with you without you directly saying, 'do you want to have sex?'
That's called game. You're style might be different from Roissys, but it's the same objective.

To pay the devil his due, honesty is nice, but try the do-you-want-to-have-sex line. It doesn't work so well. (Maybe it works for famous guys).

Steve, in kind of a retro move, seems to be advocating pretence without the brutal honesty that the PUA crowd brings. Given that he's a long term married older (no dis btw) dude, I'll excuse him for not getting it.

BTW, telling a chic your into Twilight probably won't do you any good. Talk about literature that she thinks she's supposed to like but doesn't actually, i.e. highfalutin stuff with just enough women in while still being believable. Think, 'Oh, I read Pride and Predjudice. I have to say, I did like it...' Again, don't be telling women how much Bridget Jones moved you. FAIL, FAIL. FAIL.

The Game said...

"Women don't want men who are interested in the things women are interested in.
Knitting would be a plus only if the rest of your description said you were a special forces instructor who hunted javelinas with his bear hands."

Young American women are interested in KNITTING??!?!? Since when?


"Also, the feminization and homosexualization of our society makes white men scared to let loose at all, lest they give the wrong impression. Mexican men are more patriarchal, so they can afford to appeal."


Something that goes overlooked in the PUA-MRAsphere: American men are appealling to Asian and Eastern European women precisely BECAUSE they are NOT patriarchal.

So, the most desirable women on the plant find you desirable because you are not like their own men.

So all the MRAs who cry that Feminism has made them "pussies" - thank your lucky stars!!!

Feminism has done you a FAVOR by making you an attractive alternative to Asian and EE women, in comparison with their brutish men (EE) and patriarchal cultures (Asia).

If you were brutish and/or patriarchal, they wouldn't want you.

In other news, famous Pick Up Artist, Mystery, had this movie released about him last Valentine's Day:

http://www.letthegamebegin.com/

Note the "advisory warning" at the bottom. Something they didn't need to worry about because NOBODY KNEW THE FILM EVEN EXISTED.

LOL!

Pick up, indeed.

Anonymous said...

Women don't like "jerks." They like guys who seem like natural leaders, who are passionate about things, and who have something going on in their lives. Guys who are just jerks may get women - they get white trash women who can't tell the difference between a leader and a jerk. Guys who are nice all the time are just losers and dorks.

Ray Sawhill said...

My thoughts run along the same lines Steve's do:

http://www.formspring.me/RaySawhill/q/734090373

Eileen said...

Steve said: "Latino guys know that Latina girls like to dance, so they claim to like to dance, too."

In agreement with LBD here -- most Latino guys actually like to dance -- and they can dance.

You guys who are against dancing (and I'm talking about social dancing here) are really missing out. I mean, where else can you spend an evening getting to hold and move with -- and lead! (i.e. be a man!) -- scores of women during the course of a few hours. Up close and personal! Think of it as lots of test drives in a row! ;-)

Eileen said...

The Game said: "Young American women are interested in KNITTING??!?!? Since when?"

Since for about the last 5 years or so. Knitting (and other crafts) is HUGE. Check out ravelry.com (you gotta register) or craftzine.com or craftster.org -- or the hundreds of blogs now devoted to the subject. (Disclaimer: I knit!)

Eileen said...

Anonymous said: "You're missing the point. Women don't have any interests."

That might be true on the whole, but don't forget that there are some women out here who do have interests. And, if you want to get yourself one of these fine, albeit rare, catches (i.e. if you wanna have someone you can actually have a conversation with when you're old and gray), don't play "games".

SFG said...

"Young American women are interested in KNITTING??!?!? Since when?"
No, no, it's in now because it's so retro. I was passing through the Harvard Bookstore in Cambridge (not actually owned by the great un-American institution but rather the most SWPL place on the planet) and they had a book of 'Naughty Knits'. I shan't go into any more detail. There are radical knitting circles. It's really rather amusing.

"1. Make a nice profile that is short and has photos taken of you outdoors approved by your cutest friend."
DHV--I am outdoorsy
"2. Aim for girls you actually would like to date. Take the time to write them a 3-4 sentence message that ends with a question. Or go with a single short question if you can think of something pithy. Look them up on facebook and friend them."
creating mystery
"3. Here is the key for the first or second date: invite the girl to a restaurant with a bar near the entrance that is walking distance to your place. Sorry if you live in suburbia or mom's house and lack this, I can't help you with that."

"4. Get there early, sit at the BAR and order a light appetizer and two gender-neutral drinks like rum and cokes or whiskey sours. Start with yours."

"5. Get the booze in her as fast as possible. Set a good example. This makes actual meaningful conversations and emotional connections much easier. Protip: if she is stalling on the last couple sips, finish her drink for her and order another one for both of you."

"6. Hold her hand after the first drink, kiss her closed mouth on the lips after the second."
kino, escalation
"7. Walk back to your place with her and try for sex."
moving locations
8. For the next date, say "I had so much fun let's go back there." Repeat until the sex actually happens.

9. If a girl seems very conservative make date #1 a scenic walk around your neighborhood, ending with a drink and a kiss. The early evening bar date described above should instead be the second date."

You've done quite a few standard game things in there. I'm no PUA but the stuff seems to work for the people who try it.

As for the rest of it--well, women are accommodating, and men are arrogant. This surprises anyone? Women have never been after submissive men. But everyone's totally overlooking the regional factor. Why the Red Sox?

Anonymous said...

This seems like a fairly mean-spirited little blog post. But you raise an interesting question. How do countries in Central and South America rank by I.Q. overall? My guess would be Argentina is first, and I bet you can guess why.

Any way to find out?

Anonymous said...

SFG, where do you live? The next time your local MLB team plays the Red Sox (or the Yankees for that matter), watch the game and see how many fans are wearing their colors.

The Red Sox hardly ever play an away game, no matter the town they're in!

Brutus

SFG said...

People from Boston will continue to be Red Sox fans even after moving elsewhere; people tend to root for their childhood teams. I'd be the last to deny New England's passionate commitment to their team, I'm just saying if 'red sox' is one of women's top things, we are dealing with a New England population, and that may not be generalizable.

SFG said...

"The Red Sox hardly ever play an away game, no matter the town they're in!"

That's because we are a mobile country and there are former Bostonians everywhere. But some guy who's lived in Alabama all his life isn't going to give a damn about beating the Yankees, he's going to care about Auburn and Alabama.

I stand by my statement that if the ladies love the Red Sox, we have a New England site, and not generalizable. Nothing wrong with New England, it leads the country in just about everything good, but it's not typical.

Half Sigma said...

"On dating websites I think about 25% or so women mention liking pro sports or mention a particular team. Yet has anyone ever heard of a heterosexual woman paying for tickets to a pro sport to go by herself or with female friends? Ever? "

I agree, this disgusts me. If you go to an actual baseball game, I agree that you rarely see any women who are only there with there girlfriends who don't look butch. If you're a guy, going to a game is the quintessential activity you can do with a guy friend without giving off any gay vibe.

But with respect to people who say women don't like to do anything, I disagree, they really do like to travel, but I can't figure out WHY they like traveling so much.

Ray Sawhill said...

I co-sign Eileen's comments.

I also marvel at the conviction of many guys here (and elsewhere) that A Real Guy Can't Possibly Be Interested In Activities That Girls Enjoy. Really? Yoga? Dancing? Music? Art? Acting? Foreign movies? Books? Food and cooking? Those have all been real interests of mine, and all of them have been great ways to meet and connect with women. I ain't lying.

And how about Sierra Club hikes? One male friend tells me he got many dates via the Sierra Club. Or charitable activities? A woman friend who volunteers assures me that helping at soup kitchens and such would be a terrific way for guys to meet gals.

But the assumption here by many seems to be that a guy who says that he cares about anything other than X Boxes and sports would be lying. (Of course, any Real Woman would turn to mush in the face of the harshness and abruptness of a Real Man Who Doesn't Lie ...)

But maybe something really has changed in the relationship between the sexes. Young men and young women seem at complete odds, or to exist in near-completely different dimensions, these days. Why?

Wasn't it Agnostic who made the great point that, in an era when everyone is catered to and target marketed to death (boys have their X Boxes, girls have their Sex in the City), galz and guyz have nothing in common other than a desire to get laid and (maybe) have families?

Self-pleasure is prevailing over mutual pleasure, something like that.

Tempered Optimist said...

Glass half empty: it's always depressing to read your comments when your posts relate to men/women. Because the woman-haters come out with a vengeance. The guys who read your blog really dislike women, Steve. This is depressing.

Glass half full: they aren't anti-Semitic, despite the best efforts of raving madmen like Svigor and Mangan. They worship the Coen Brothers.

Kylie said...

Anonymous said..."The latinos are making a mistake. Girls do not want a guy who is interested in what they are interested in - otherwise they would date gay men. girls want a man."

I don't think the Latinos are the ones making a mistake here. Check this out:

Tango Argentina.

There's a reason it has over 8 million views and it's not just because the woman is showing a lot of leg.

Jeannie said...

"That's been my experience, too, and I am a woman."

I know what you mean, Kylie. Most women are not interested in intellectual or artistic pursuits, or abstract subjects, only personal ones. Those who are often assume other women are not, and keep their interests to themselves or go into competitive mode ("I'm more serious about____ than you'll ever be.")

But then when we are obviously deep into some interest that doesn't involve a man, that's suspect, too. We're not "real women" to either men or other women.

Dahlia said...

I wonder if this was Americans only. My sister has been dating a German for awhile now and she's been complaining that the very things that attracted him to her: nice, more formal clothing style; graciousness; etc., are giving way due to acculturation to American norms. Before, he was the anti-frathouse man, now he posts pictures of himself drinking and partying on facebook.
If my sister dumps him, which is likely, there is a line behind her of women who are willing to put up with it. And men aren't as discriminating when it comes to race as women, hence, maybe why he can behave worse here than in Germany.

The Game said...

Re: knitting and crafts. Crafts like jewelry making and scrapbooking I knew about. I had no idea that young women were getting into knitting though.

That should please the menfolk, eh?

If most White American men don't like to dance and have no rhythm, that reflects badly on us. Probably one of the reasons why Black men are so popular among young, hot women these days.

This must be a generatational thing because my grandfather and great-uncles love to dance the old dances of the 1940s and 50s with their wives.

Kylie said...

RandyB said..."Even though they're not listed here, most singles profiles claim to like 'walks on the beach;' so why doesn't everyone just go walk on the beach and not bother with Match.com?"

That would certainly be more practical than sitting alone by the fireside, waiting for the evening to turn into a long romantic one.

Anonymous said...

Eileen said...

"That might be true on the whole, but don't forget that there are some women out here who do have interests. And, if you want to get yourself one of these fine, albeit rare, catches (i.e. if you wanna have someone you can actually have a conversation with when you're old and gray), don't play "games".

I will say the following for the benefit of any nerds who might be reading this blog:

Do not believe what Eileen said. The women she called "fine, albeit rare catches" do not exist. I've looked for them for you. You can take that info to the bank. Women with whom one can have exciting conversation on abstract subjects do not exist. One simply needs to accept that fact and move on. The earlier you do that, the better off you'll be.

A very annoying feminine trait is to always claim to be whatever is being praised within one's hearing. If someone here lamented the scarcity of women interested in satanism, or of two-headed women, a few female commenters would have immediately popped up defending womankind from these accusations. Several of them would have claimed to have tmultiple heads. I am only slightly exaggerating.

I've seen this in real life. The women who end up defending womankind from accusations of superficiality invariably turn out to be just as superficial as all the others. It's not a bell curve, it's a straight line, or at least something very closely approximating one.

The Game said...

"My sister has been dating a German for awhile now and she's been complaining that the very things that attracted him to her: nice, more formal clothing style; graciousness; etc., are giving way due to acculturation to American norms. Before, he was the anti-frathouse man, now he posts pictures of himself drinking and partying on facebook."

American "culture" sucks.

Truth said...

"I also marvel at the conviction of many guys here (and elsewhere) that A Real Guy Can't Possibly Be Interested In Activities That Girls Enjoy. Really? Yoga? Dancing? Music? Art? Acting? Foreign movies? Books? Food and cooking? Those have all been real interests of mine..."

Dude, when SWPL.com starts hiring guys for testimonials they're going to send a limo for you.

Anonymous said...

My six foot two, sports playing good ol' boy brother knits. It's something he likes to do with his hands while he watches baseball and drinks beer at the end of the day. He's made several nice hats for my kids. Oh, and it also introduced him to tons of lovely young women and got him laid a lot more than the bitter, angry losers who love to vent their hatred for women whenever a gender-based topic comes up around here.

Really, it's not that difficult to develop an interest or two that might make you interesting for women to talk to instead of babbling about Call of Duty or something. Make a freakin' effort, guys.

Tempered Optimist said...

Ray,

"But maybe something really has changed in the relationship between the sexes. Young men and young women seem at complete odds, or to exist in near-completely different dimensions, these days. Why? "

That's young WHITE men and women. Check out the Latino and Black likes/dislikes. They have a few major things in common: family and religion. That's pretty big stuff, don't you think?

It's young white men who are in this culturally-mandated "I hate girls" time warp. Did you see the movie THE HANGOVER? I never saw a more witless piece of woman-hating garbage in my life. It was white boy humor all the way.

Kylie said...

Oh, goody. I just got an unsolicited offer to join AARP.

I guess there's no point now in asking if anyone here likes piƱa coladas or taking walks in the rain.

Eileen said...

Anonymous said: "Do not believe what Eileen said. The women she called "fine, albeit rare catches" do not exist. I've looked for them for you. You can take that info to the bank. Women with whom one can have exciting conversation on abstract subjects do not exist. One simply needs to accept that fact and move on. The earlier you do that, the better off you'll be."

That's funny -- when I, and a handful of other women who just posted here as well, are right on the other side of the internet tubes here ready and willing and interested in having abstract conversations.

I have them regularly, as a matter of fact. Not with any girlfriends I know 'cause, like I said, I agree that thinking women with abstract interests are few and far between. I have such conversations with my husband or male family members/friends.

Just 'cause you haven't met one of us rarities doesn't mean we don't exist (am I right, ladies?). (Or maybe they just didn't want to talk to you 'cause you came off like an *ss.)

Curvy said...

"I will say the following for the benefit of any nerds who might be reading this blog:

Do not believe what Eileen said. The women she called "fine, albeit rare catches" do not exist. I've looked for them for you."

Hm.

Consider: An IQ 2 standard deviations to the right is probably necessary for anyone to be deeply interested in intellectual pursuits.
That's eliminating 98% of the population (men AND women) right there, leaving only 2%, composed of both men and women. So 1% women --except the further to the right on the Bell Curve, the more skewed to men, so it's probably more like 1.5%men and only .5% women are capable of relishing anything more cerebral than celebrity gossip.

Yeah, you're going to have to look hard to find that fine, rare, specimen, but to say we don't exist?
Preposterous. Why, there's some of us here at isteve.


Might as well say YOU don't exist; after all, you are only 1/300 millionth of the American population. If we charted the incidence of YOU on a curve, it would be, for all intents and purposes, a flat line.

You're just bitter because you've been running "game" on sluts in clubs.

You've been fishing for trout in a herring barrel-- which, by rights, ought to cause us to question your intelligence.

SFG said...

"I know what you mean, Kylie. Most women are not interested in intellectual or artistic pursuits, or abstract subjects, only personal ones. Those who are often assume other women are not, and keep their interests to themselves or go into competitive mode ("I'm more serious about____ than you'll ever be.")"

It is pretty funny. I knew one lady who had majored in math at Harvard and complained about being stuck with two former classmates who talked about shopping and clothes all the time...

I always suspected half the reason it took so long for the feminists to go after the STEM fields is that a lot of the few women in those fields _simply don't like other women very much_ and saw no reason to encourage them to come in...

And no, I didn't get her. She married another Harvard math grad. He does some high tech thing with radio waves I don't understand. ;)

Svigor said...

Steve, your error is in thinking like a man. Women don't search dating sites for a guy who is "compatible." They search for a guy who is HOT.

Rotgut's come full circle. Now he's saying women generally look for pretty men and men generally look for compatible women.

Svigor said...

they aren't anti-Semitic, despite the best efforts of raving madmen like Svigor and Mangan. They worship the Coen Brothers.

The funny thing is, if I just swapped in "WASP" for "Jew" in my comments, I could pass for a run-of-the-mill liberal. :)

BamaGirl said...

"Do not believe what Eileen said. The women she called "fine, albeit rare catches" do not exist. I've looked for them for you. You can take that info to the bank. Women with whom one can have exciting conversation on abstract subjects do not exist. One simply needs to accept that fact and move on. The earlier you do that, the better off you'll be."

Funny that only the bitter and dejected hold these sort of opinions. Just sayin'

BamaGirl said...

"Women don't like "jerks." They like guys who seem like natural leaders, who are passionate about things, and who have something going on in their lives. Guys who are just jerks may get women - they get white trash women who can't tell the difference between a leader and a jerk. Guys who are nice all the time are just losers and dorks."

I agree wholeheartedly. Plus many of the so-called "nice guys" who frequently complain about women "only dating jerks" are some of the most passive-aggressive, cynical, and whiny guys around. Hardly adjectives one would associate with the term "nice." Its the same thing with women. The ones who constantly reiterate what a "great catch" they are and how guys are "missing out" are usually the most annoying and negative harpies. Most passably attractive/pleasant people without personality deficiencies and an accurate perception of their own worth don't find it terribly difficult to get involved with the opposite sex romantically. I will probably be crucified for saying this, but it is true 95 percent of the time.

James Kabala said...

I've done very little traveling myself, but there was a time when it was taken for granted that cultivated people of either sex (who could afford it) would enjoy trips to London, Paris, Rome, etc. without being "fickle" or "empty." Romance-related threads on this blog seem to bring out people with very little knowledge of what the world was like before their own lives.

josh said...

Was I the only one giggling that Latinas mentioned "100 years of Solitude"?? This merengue crap is gold! Gold Jerry! Can white people learn this stuff? I mean are there any laws against it? A great way to meet hot chicks! Also:funny that the blacks both said"God fearin'"! LOL! God fearing!!:0

David said...

"Mexican" has become as "offensive" as "colored."

Considering our immigration problems, Schopenhauer's maxim may apply here: When a name for the same thing keeps changing in order to avoid giving offense, the offense is not really "in the name of the thing, but in the thing named."

>Getting a little deep in the minutiae here.<

Attracting girls, and breeding in general, doesn't seem like minutiae to everyone.

Anonymous said...

>'girls are at least pretending to like stuff you like. . . they're making an effort.'

jodi pichoult as an interest? She does books about mothers with Asbergy kids. That's not making an effort. That's poking fun at nerdy Steveosphere types.

The Game said...

""I also marvel at the conviction of many guys here (and elsewhere) that A Real Guy Can't Possibly Be Interested In Activities That Girls Enjoy. Really? Yoga? Dancing? Music? Art? Acting? Foreign movies? Books? Food and cooking? Those have all been real interests of mine..."

The Truth: ''Dude, when SWPL.com starts hiring guys for testimonials they're going to send a limo for you. ''

NOT!

1. Most current American mainstream, and Indie for that matter, films are crap.

2. If you don't read books, you're dumb.

3. You gotta eat so if you want to be healthy that means you have to cook too.

4. Yoga is and has always been a male dominated field in it's country/culture of origin.

Curvy: ''So 1% women --except the further to the right on the Bell Curve, the more skewed to men, so it's probably more like 1.5%men and only .5% women are capable of relishing anything more cerebral than celebrity gossip."

I don't buy this for a second. Travel the world a bit, there are plenty of middling IQ ordinary folk who are not obsessed with celebrity gossip, either their country's or America's.

This are places with of course, CULTURE.

Americans are not an example sample of or for the rest of the world.

B Lode said...

Plus many of the so-called "nice guys" who frequently complain about women "only dating jerks" are some of the most passive-aggressive, cynical, and whiny guys around

It's interesting that the guy who most famously celebrates the "fact" that women are only interested in dating jerks also comes off as cynical and whiny. But Roissy apparently has a lot of people convinced he's not an enormous complainer. (He's ... umm ... non-complaining when he writes about herbs! That's right. He's doing something other than complaining! Really...!"

So much for "lies perishing". But no one else cares so why should I?

Curvaceous Carbon-based Life Form said...

"I don't buy this for a second. Travel the world a bit, there are plenty of middling IQ ordinary folk who are not obsessed with celebrity gossip, either their country's or America's."

No, no. I didn't mean all middling-IQ folk are obsessed with celebrity gossip specifically. I meant that most middling-IQ people are, today, only interested in topics about as intellectually challenging as celebrity gossip.

People who are incapable of mastering Algebra II in high school are, today, tending to mature into people who would rather donate a kidney without anesthesia than read a novel -- excepting, of course, if it's about vampires who sparkle.

So, back to the Anon annoyed at women who defend women: Bud, listen, by insisting we don't exist, you're discouraging all the male nerds from even *attempting* the search for that elusive, magical creature, the Nerdette.

If Mr. Nerd doesn't come find her, but goes off boffing the Pretty Sillies, while Nerdette sits home alone, watching old Star Trek reruns, then no more little nerds.

And without a resupply of baby nerds to grow up to be engineers, technological, advanced Western civilization collapses.

Please, stop it. You are hastening the advent of the Idiocracy.

ben tillman said...

You've been fishing for trout in a herring barrel-- which, by rights, ought to cause us to question your intelligence.

Indeed, who would choose trout over herring?

ben tillman said...

"Mexican" has become as "offensive" as "colored."

Not in these parts.

Anonymous said...

Curvaceous Carbon-based Life Form said...

If Mr. Nerd doesn't come find her, but goes off boffing the Pretty Sillies, while Nerdette sits home alone, watching old Star Trek reruns, then no more little nerds.

And without a resupply of baby nerds to grow up to be engineers, technological, advanced Western civilization collapses.


Male nerds would take 'pretty sillies' over a 'nerdette' any day, even if it entailed the end of civilization. Luckily for you, hot girls don't even acknowledge the existence of geeks, so they're forced to settle with said nerdettes.

nsam said...

Intelligent women who enjoy abstract conversations (and more physical interactions) do exist... the point that they are few in number is not relevant.. more importantly they tend to be very available as they don't seem to be much in demand (by either men or women). As an intellectual male, I highly recommend these creatures for male readers in the steve-o-sphere, if nothing, but as a refreshing distraction from the objects if desire at the roissy-sphere. Given their rarity, its much easier to deify them.

The Game said...

Put on your dancing shoes boys!

Science proves it signal "good genes" to the ladies:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11223473

Hold on their White boys, that doesn't include ALL types of dancing. You will have to take lessons from you-know-who!

SFG said...

"Male nerds would take 'pretty sillies' over a 'nerdette' any day, even if it entailed the end of civilization. Luckily for you, hot girls don't even acknowledge the existence of geeks, so they're forced to settle with said nerdettes."

I don't know if this is true generally, but speak for yourself, dude. :)

"As an intellectual male, I highly recommend these creatures for male readers in the steve-o-sphere, if nothing, but as a refreshing distraction from the objects if desire at the roissy-sphere. Given their rarity, its much easier to deify them."

Eh, be careful. Maybe it's just because I live in the NE, but women's interests being what they are, they tend to run into the humanities departments and get brainwashed by the feminazis. You have been warned.

I don't know if there are lots of right-wing brainy women in the South who like to read big books while staying at home and homeschooling their kids three grades past grade level, but I somehow doubt it. Not that this would be a bad thing if it existed. ;)

Anonymous said...

This is to John

In other words, what you just said, is that Men can be sexist and not care about women...period. Women have to always like, pretend to like, what men want. And men never ever ever have to make any effort whatsoever. Yoko Ono was right, "woman is the ...of the world." Women always have to make the effort, men dont. Cause that would be acting "Not straight." A real man--ignores women, doesnt make the effort to know them, respect them, treat them as an equal, etc.
And treating women as equals = make an effort to understand them and try to make effort to like what they do.
No,...why would women ever ever want a man to act considerate respectful etc toward them? Might as well just bash 'em up whenever they get outta line.
I gotcha. I see what you're saying, John. You spoke well for yourself.
Lets get to it. Wanna know why some minorities are doing well with women these days? Cause they FIGURED IT OUT. Make an effort to understand what women like. TRY. Not that hard. If they can fake it, so can we. (well, most of us could if we tried)
And you wonder why they get more dates, women, etc on average.

The Game said...

"Male nerds would take 'pretty sillies' over a 'nerdette' any day, even if it entailed the end of civilization. Luckily for you, hot girls don't even acknowledge the existence of geeks, so they're forced to settle with said nerdettes. "

I can't agree with this. All the nerds I know totally loathe the attitudes and stupidity of the "beautiful people". They can't stand to even be around them.

Of course, this isn't to say there are no good-looking nerds out there - there are plenty, even if they lack "style".

Most of the nerds I know are average and above looking. I don't think I've ever met a really "ugly" nerd.

Davout said...

@ Game

"Put on your dancing shoes boys!

Science proves it signal "good genes" to the ladies..."


Seems to me that the female perception of 'good genes' doesn't include intelligence because the non-dancers have higher IQs than the dancers.

The Game said...

Davout, you can blame it on evolution.

And check this out while you're at it!


The only group of regular guys on the planet who can profit from their sexuality just as much as women do.

Who are they?

Take a wild guess...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtU3m2M1Ivs

I don't blame them. I'd be doing it to if I was that "gifted" LOL!

BamaGirl said...

"Seems to me that the female perception of 'good genes' doesn't include intelligence because the non-dancers have higher IQs than the dancers."

Plenty of intelligent people can dance, I've never heard of a dancing-IQ correlation. One can be intelligent and have non-nerdy interests...

Davout said...

@ game,

lol, good on those guys if they can profit from dancing!

@ bamagirl,

I was making a projection (which could be wrong) based on the fact that whites have higher IQs than blacks and hispanics. Anecdotally, what I know of my friends is broadly in line with my projection.

Even if plenty of dancers have high IQs, it does not disprove the contention that the majority of non-dancers have higher IQs than dancers.

I don't have a problem with those who are naturally gifted dancing per se. What I do have a problem with is dancing being foisted upon guys who are not naturally gifted. These men are not going to have fun and that does not bode well for a date.

FYI I haven't seen very many white women who are good dancers either.