April 23, 2012

Which ethnic leaders have followers?

A continuing question here at iSteve is whether media-proclaimed ethnic leaders actually have many followers. For example, there is little evidence that that the well-funded "Latino leaders" who get quoted in English-language newspaper articles actually have many followers. A Pew survey asked Hispanics who the most important Hispanic leader is, and 74% said Don't Know or There Isn't One. The déformation professionnelle of these synthetic Hispanic hierarchs constantly cited in the Washington Post and the New York Times claiming that the vast numbers of voters who are their followers want, above all else, more immigration is that they have their jobs only because white people with money and power look at the Census data and figure they need to get on the good side of the coming tidal wave. Not surprisingly, these spokesmodels argue, in turn, for an even bigger tidal wave to make them even more employable in the ethnic leadership racket.

There actually are leaders who in the spring of 2006 turned out hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants to march through the streets of big cities: they turned out to be funny drive-time disk jockeys on Spanish-language radio stations. But the English-language press hasn't wanted to go there, for several obvious reasons. And there's little evidence that English-speaking Latinos even know whose these disk jockeys are. Plus, the funny DJs haven't been able to think of much of anything for their listeners to do as a follow-up. The May Day marches of 2006 featuring vast throngs waving Mexican flags were a political disaster that helped sink amnesty in 2006, and weren't repeated in 2007. 

And, in Florida, there are, most definitely, Cuban leaders, whom you don't want to cross, as Ozzie Guillen recently discovered. 

In contrast, African-Americans have lots of leaders who they really do seem to enjoy sort of following, at least as long as they are being entertaining. Rev. Jesse Jackson has lost a little off his fastball 44 years after he waved the bloody shirt, but, 25 years after Tawana Brawley, Rev. Al Sharpton can still bring the heat, as the Trayvon case shows. When the anti-Semitic Louis Farrakhan called for a Million Man March in 1995 and gave a speech about numerology, there was much snickering in the press about how the crowd wasn't anywhere close to a million. Then, however, people started looking at the pictures of the crowd Farrakhan had conjured up and ... holy moly, I don't know what a million men looks like, but that was a big crowd. 

Among the Marchers, for example, was Barack Obama, who took time to fly from Chicago to Washington for the October 16, 1995 event. His mother died of cancer three weeks later on November 7, 1995, unvisited by Obama. Dying mother or Minister Farrakhan: who is more important to an aspiring black politician?

Plus, there are lots of local black leaders, such as Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who do pretty well for themselves. For instance, U.S. Senator Barack Obama donated $52,770 to Wright's church in the 2005-07 tax years.

Moreover, black leaders have a credible weapon that other groups don't have: As Tom Wolfe pointed out over 40 years ago in Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers, they profit by playing the riot card, by claiming to be the only thing holding their followers back from burning down the cities again. That doesn't mean that "black leaders" actually can keep blacks from doing bad things. As Wolfe noted in 1970:
Every time there was a riot, whites would call on "Negro leaders" to try to cool it, only to find out that the Negro leaders didn't have any followers. They sent Martin Luther King into Chicago and the people ignored him. They sent Dick Gregory into Watts and the people hooted at him and threw beer cans. During the riot in Hunters Point, the mayor of San Francsco, John Shelley, went into Hunters Point with the only black member of the Board of Supervisors, and the brothers threw rocks at both of them. They sent in the middle-class black members of the Human Rights Commission, and the brothers laughed at them and called them Toms. Then they figured the leadership of the riot was "the gangs," so they went in the "ex-gang leaders" from groups like Youth for Service to make a "liaison with the key gang leaders." What they didn't know was that Hunters Point and a lot of ghettos were so disorganized, there weren't even any "key gangs," much less "key gang leaders," in there. That riot finally just burnt itself out after five days, that was all.

So, perhaps its most useful to think of "black leaders" as being more like "rock stars" than as powerful in the sense of getting followers to do things they don't want to do. In 1978, Ted Nugent could get 300,000 white people to show up in one spot and hold their lighters up, but Ted's personal dislike of drugs didn't seem to have much effect on them. Similarly, Rev. Al has had made many admirable criticisms over the years of the message of hip-hop to young black males, but you can't make much of a living doing that. Deep down, Rev. Al disapproves Trayvon Martin's Twitter handle, but where's the money in that?

In any case, the rock star concept is helpful in thinking about the various Ford Foundation-funded Latino leaders who are so frequently quoted in the national press: how high would you have to get to think of any of them as rock stars?

The most interesting, complicated, and (of course) least discussed case are Jewish leaders. Unlike with Mexicans, there is a lot of talent, a lot of organizational skill, and a lot of money available.

There are, of course, numerous overt Jewish leaders, such as Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League, whom you don't want to cross.

As we've seen with illegal immigration, where Jewish-Americans tend to agree more with their fellow American citizens than with their self-designated leaders, the bad habits of self-appointed Jewish leaders shouldn't be blindly imputed to their putative followers. The déformation professionnelle of Jewish leaders is particularly obvious. As Israel's quasi-governmental Jewish People Policy Institute recently noted:
“World Jewry today is at a historical zenith of absolute wealth creation. … one can say that Jewish wealth is higher than almost any other ethnic group worldwide.”

You may have noticed, however, that you haven't heard much about the JPPI, compared to, say, the SPLC. Realism doesn't sell. Fear and loathing are proven moneymakers, as the SPLC's quarter of a billion dollars in assets proves. To make a nice living in a Jewish organization, you don't need to appeal to the rationality of most American Jews, you just need to tap into the emotions of a few rich ones.

You'll notice that the SPLC is not an overtly Jewish organization. Theoretically, it is supposed to fight Souther Poverty, but it never seems to employ many blacks in important positions.

But, I want to talk here about an even more "informal sector" of Jewish leadership: the spontaneous billionaire Jewish avengers who sometimes suddenly spring up to ruin the the livelihoods of public figures pour l'encouragement des autres.

With about 35% of the Forbes 400 Jewish as of 2009, a Jewish leader can be his one and only own follower and still have a major impact.

For example, in 2003, center-left pundit Gregg Easterbrook wrote one sentence on his blog at Marty Peretz's New Republic implying that Jewish executives have a lot of power in the entertainment industry and should avoid making ultra-violent movies. Now, you might think that being pals with Marty Peretz would mean you are safe from accusations of anti-Semitism. Moreover, Easterbrook's big brother Frank Easterbrook is a heavyweight federal judge, currently the chief judge of the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals, so, I, personally, would hesitate before shoving around a member of the Easterbrook clan.

But, Easterbrook was immediately fired from his other job as a columnist for ESPN by Disney CEO Michael Eisner.

The general response was that Easterbrook had it coming. How dare he claim Jews are influential within the media? CNN anchorman Rick Sanchez suffered the same fate in 2010. (And here's how Sanchez's career was going a year later.)

As an influential 20th century Jewish thinker once pointed out, "With great power comes great responsibility."

Except when it doesn't.

This is not to say that there isn't much criticism of Jews by other Jews on an ad hoc basis, especially over Israel (especially motivated by the Likud-Republican Party connection), but, domestically, there are two things lacking:

A). The notion that there bad habits that Jews are prone to (e.g., insisting that the crucially important policy issue of immigration be viewed only through the lens of Ellis Island kitsch) is off limits even to Jewish critics. For example, if you read one centrist Jewish blogger for years like I have, it's not hard to imagine that he has an unarticulated thought that goes something like this: "People like me have a whole lot of power in 21st Century America, and we seem to be prone to certain bad habits, certain patterns of shortcomings, so I should be on the lookout for individual abuses by rich and powerful Jews, because nobody else seems to have noticed these patterns." But that's just my guess. I don't recall him ever publicly enunciating such an admirable concept. Presumably it would be incredibly dangerous to his career to say such a thing, despite being Jewish himself.

B). For gentiles, you can raise your estimate of the dangers by an order of magnitude.

81 comments:

Anonymous said...

Steve:

Why do you capitalize "Jews" but give Gentiles the ignominious "g"?

Jeffery said...

What does it mean that Nugent and other White rock stars could get 300,000 people out to a concert in 1978, but no White rock star could do that today?

The absolute numbers of Whites hasn't gone down that much, if any. But they no longer gather the way they used to for musical events. This looks like the destruction of a culture and of social cohesiveness among Whites.

Ari said...

It is the job of Jewish leaders to prevent Jewish people from assimilating with Americans.

Anonymous said...

To make a nice living in the Jewish organization, you don't need to appeal to the feelings of most American Jews, you just need to tap into the emotions of a few rich ones.



The peculiar thing is that the "few rich ones" - Jews who have have made billions in the US - are so paranoid and scared of the country they became billionaires in that they give megabux to the SPLC to keep on the lookout for the conspicuously non-existent anti-semitism.

That's counter-intuitive, but it's reality all the same.

Anonymous said...

I'd never thought of Ted Nugent as being The Last Great White Rock Star.

Can it really be true?

Steve Sailer said...

Kurt Cobain.

Marlowe said...

Brown power collapsed with the disappearance and presumed death of Oscar Zeta Acosta in the mid-70s. Like Clean for Gene Marty, judges didn't scare him. He set fire to one's lawn after disputing a highly technical matter of the law in court.

MC said...

Jeffrey Goldberg?

Marlowe said...

On the leadership gap between Chicanos and Blacks: could it come down to a matter of religious difference? Latins belong predominantly to the Catholic Church whereas Blacks overwhelmingly subscribe to some variety of Protestantism. Black leaders have usually emerged out of the churches. The Roman church has its own agenda not necessarily identical to that of its followers. It has tended to align itself with the oligarchy controlling a Latin country against the poor masses while claiming to offer them succor. Look at what happened to the liberation theologists of South America during the 80s who wanted to champion the cause of the poor against the oligarchy. The Vatican recalled those boys for severe instruction in the faith.

Oscar Zeta Acosta had served as a Baptist missionary in Panama during the early 60s before gaining a law degree in California. Divinity studies and Law form a powerful & dangerous combination especially when fueled by drugs on an industrial scale.

Some Oakland guy said...

I'd never thought of Ted Nugent as being The Last Great White Rock Star.

Can it really be true?


No, no. Eddie Vedder of Pearl Jam is still very much an extent rock star.

Bystander said...

Thought of 1 data point aside from the otherwise febrile tone above: recently ADL was playing D for Turkey on the issue of anti-Armenian pogroms of yore; sentiment of L.A. Jews, even Israelis, was in difference *sharply* and Mr. Leader then sheepishly backed down. (Kobe Bryant for some reason was also critiqued for his airline ad)

True fact: my phone spellchekk just suggested "gentile" for "febrile" above. Zounds

Anonymous said...

What shortcomings do you think Jews are prone too?
The firings above are on grounds of 'political correctness', i.e. Jews want to keep certain realities fig-leafed. They have that in common with other minorities groups who differ meaningfully from the norm.

Anonymous said...

"I'd never thought of Ted Nugent as being The Last Great White Rock Star."

He never was great to begin with.

Big Bill said...

It is sad, but the greater their power and wealth, the greater their paranoia. Bach in the 1960's, just 20 years after WWII, there was no holocaust industry, no holocaust denial hate crime laws, no blaming Goy America for not going to war with Hitler sooner. As each year goes by and Jews live in greater and greater peace in more and more safety, the holocaust and hate crime industries get ratcheted up more and more, until in Europe you can go to jail for selling old WWII memorabilia.

The only thing I can figure is that Jewish comfort equals Jewish assimilation, therefore the Jewish authorities must ramp up paranoia among young Jews to keep them from mongrelizing with the goyim.

My alternative notion is that Jews are all too aware of the "disparate impact" they have on Goy America, and must constantly ramp up to meet the growing threat. The increasingly marginalized goyim must be filled with increasing heaps of guilt to prevent a cataclysmic social explosion.

David Davenport said...

Marine Le Pen has followers.

The National Front got 20 per cent of the French Popular vote during the past week.

Maybe the anti-open borders counterrevolution will start in France.

--David Davenport

Henry Canaday said...

Recently at our Local Lefty Bookstore Stuart Eizenstat gave a talk that was described by his introducer as “a state of the union” for Jewish people. Eizenstat was partly concerned with the threats to Jews, in Israel from a nuclear-armed Iran and terrorism and in the U.S. from population stagnation and a careless loss of Jewish identity and tradition from too-easy assimilation and intermarriage.

But he first recited a summary of the extraordinary success of Jews in 2012, from Israeli power to the massive presence of American Jews in our scientific, intellectual and business life. This success, Eizenstat noted, was “in our DNA.”

If he meant that phrase metaphorically, as it is commonly used in a thousand mediocre business articles, he was being banal. But if he meant it literally, Eizenstat was being unusually candid. Eizenstat said nothing especially brilliant or original during his remarks, but he appeared intelligent and honest throughout.

Scott said...

The difference in opinion between Jewish leaders and the average Jewish-American has an obvious explanation.

Jewish leaders in general dohave a strong sense of responsibility (which, as you say, comes with great power). That sense of responsibility extends to their tribe (and to a lesser extent, Israel). You've astutely pointed out that the distinguishing nature of Jewish morality (in contradistinction to modern Western morality) is that Jews worry they aren't ethnocentric enough. Well, when they achieve great power (with which responsibility comes), they make up for that--and then some.

The average Jew, on the other hand, who has personal interests (e.g. the safety of his family) that overlap more with the interests of the average tax-paying American citizen, is somewhat less likely to support policies that maximize the long term power of his tribe as a whole if those policies do not also serve his personal interests.

(Of course Jews punch well above their weight in dictating policy not because of their numbers but because of their money and positions of influence, so what the average Jew wants or thinks has no bearing on reality. Average Jews certainly aren't uniting to "police" their higher-ups; 85% of them voted for Obama).

There are many examples of this phenomenon I just described right in front of our noses. A Jewish-American who just misses the cut to get into the Ivy Leagues will tend to curse the unjust policy, but the average Jewish billionaire will tend to support it, since as long as the Ivies remain 24% Jewish, and Jews count as Whites, more affirmative action means fewer white males to compete with. See here.

Anonymous said...

"The absolute numbers of Whites hasn't gone down that much, if any. But they no longer gather the way they used to for musical events. This looks like the destruction of a culture and of social cohesiveness among Whites."

Hmmm. But these mass gatherings were explicitly COUNTER cultural events; as much part of the problem as any other hippie, druggy and left-anarchistic activity.

Being a conservative means admitting, at some stage before your toes point to the sky, that those old squarejohns we used to laugh at were mostly right.

Gilbert Pinfold

Anonymous said...

If you're talking about white American rock stars you may be right. But rock is still fomenting in UK, Canada etc.

Steve, do you think that there are any younger black leaders coming up to replace Jesse and Al? Harold Ford Jr., for instance graduated from DC prep school St. Alban's (Al Gore's alma mater) and is married to a white woman. I don't think he is interested in defending the likes of the Dunbar Vilage thugs

Anonymous said...

"Dying mother or Minister Farrakhan: who is more important to an aspiring black politician?"

Has anyone else noticed that Obama, who called Mark Buehrle a couple years ago after he pitched a perfect game for the White Sox, has not done the same for Sox pitcher Philip Humber, who just did the same thing in even more impressive fashion? My theory: Obama's chief concern in calling Buehrle was to make sure that black outfielder DeWayne Wise, who made a spectacular catch to preserve the perfect game, got his due. Obama even told Buehrle in that inappropriately high-handed manner of his that he should buy Wise a steak dinner. With no dog in the fight in the Humber victory, Obama neglects to make the call, showing obvious inconsistency, and no one calls him on it.

Kylie said...

"His mother died of cancer three weeks later on November 7, 1995, unvisited by Obama. Dying mother or Minister Farrakhan: who is more important to an aspiring black politician?"

Shouldn't that be "dying white mother"? I bet Obama would have kept a vigil at the bedside of his hypothetical black mother as she lay dying. And we would have heard all about it, repeatedly.

Anonymous said...

Some stuff about how superior to us all Kenyans are

Anonymous said...

As an influential 20th Jewish thinker once pointed out, "With great power comes great responsibility."

Stan Lee is Scots-Irish?!?

Whiskey said...

In 1978 there were far more young White men. Who Nugent appealed to, and now there are far fewer. The Birth Dearth had consequences.

And Steve you're cherry-picking, Adelson the casino zillionaire is pretty right wing, and seems to run counter to the SPLC desire to create Mexico Norte. Meanwhile Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and Steve Jobs have been at least if not more harmful in terms of public policy and driving debate than say, Abe Foxman. Moreover, George Soros, ethnically Jewish, wishes Israel destroyed, and boasts about being a Jew hunter as a teen in Nazi-occupied Hungary.

There just are not that many Jews in leadership positions to drive policy to the left. You can't sell stuff to people who don't want what you're selling. Selling (if you've ever done it) means making people aware of what you have and not killing the sale among those inclined, as much as anything else.

Nice White ladies and men, various Foundations (like say ... the GATES Foundation!) and all the rest have a vested interest in a hard-left, Mexico Norte Nation. If you are looking for those tribunes, well John Stewart, Steve Colbert, and Conan O'Brien probably represent them best. Colbert and Stewart got a whole bunch of people to mock those "stupid squares" which is basically their reason for existence. The most powerful leaders are those of the "New Class" who tap the Gates/Soros/Buffett money.

Tony said...

That may be true about Jews but not about Israel. The leftist Jews are pretty anti Israel and pro Arab. 60 minutes last night as an example.

Anonymous said...

"It is the job of Jewish leaders to prevent Jewish people from assimilating with Americans."

They've done a bad job of that. Promoting integration over the ethnic status quo has done quite the number on them.

ATBOTL said...

It's not just appealing to rich Jews, but rich Jews who are heavily involved with politics, Israel and Jewish organizations. Such individuals are more ethnocentric.

Anonymous said...

Between the Jewish leadership in this country and the Christian leadership in this country,we're all on a sinking ship.
I think it's time in the West to throw out all the Bibles and Talmuds,and all the learned books based on these, and write a faith in our hearts that speaks of gratitude for the great gift of life,family,friends,nature,the animal kingdom,etc:A type of faith that can't be used by those in power to pit us all against one another in so many ways and play divide and conquer.Divide and conquer,divide and conquer; And every generation falls for it.
Between Judaism and Christianity, the West is in really bad shape.
The Old Testament is so digusting and mean-spirited--and our culture is based on it! Pretty amazing to me that this book became the defining book of the West.I thought the same as I read it for the first time as a child. There's nothing in it that speaks of true gratitude or natural,normal decency and respect for one another and the world we're born into.
My Catholic "leader" is a eunuch who lives in a palace bejeweled and robed in silk,and sometimes even ermine. The cone-shaped hats - for lack of the proper word- are so strange they seem to have been designed on another planet.lol
I'm supposed to take him seriously?
As a Catholic, there are quotes from the New Testament that I have taken to heart, but much in my Christian testament seems mean-spirited to me,as well. The Book of Revelation is downright putrid.
What a horrible vision to pass on to the children.
There has to be a more gracious and decent way to approach The Holy Creator and Lord and Giver of Life than Paul's letters and Talmudic injunctions and putting fear into our children's hearts;To make them afraid of their own natures and of the world they're born into.
I,for one,have pretty much stopped listening to all leadership. I only read up about them to figure out how they're lying to us so I can protect my heart and my spirit from them and their lies designed to goad me on to hate and distrust.Joe

bjdubbs said...

Can Jews be an elite if they don't serve in the military? I realize that's a cheap shot at the chickenhawks, but it's a serious question. Tom Ricks has a post in the WashPost advocating a draft, and he makes good points. A draft would change the whole concept of citizenship. Dual citizenship wouldn't be such a convenience any longer, especially if it meant junior would be fighting in some ME hellhole. What would the concept of amnesty even mean if the amnestied were working side-by-side with recent draftees? The injustice would be too obvious. Immigration, the draft and anti-American elites are all the same issue.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
As an influential 20th Jewish thinker once pointed out, "With great power comes great responsibility."

Stan Lee is Scots-Irish?!?

I always thought he was Armenian.

Anonymous said...

@ Jeffery

Maybe with the internet and technology in general, whites who can afford todays higher ticket prices have diversified, so its harder to find 300,000 of them in the same city/area who all like the same thing no matter who it is. I also don't think todays promoters are interested in having 300,000 people at an event.

Steve Sailer said...

Eizenstat is chairman of the Jewish People Planning Institute in Israel, as well as an Obama Administration official.

RUM said...

I am Welsh, yes sir-ee, 100% Welsh.

My only contribution to this blog will be to insist that no one, ever, under any circumstances, ever, for any reason, criticizes the Armenians.

Anonymous said...

Jews are the real leaders or directors of blacks, Mexicans, gays, and .. even even whites.

Anonymous said...

"Has anyone else noticed that Obama, who called Mark Buehrle a couple years ago after he pitched a perfect game for the White Sox, has not done the same for Sox pitcher Philip Humber, who just did the same thing in even more impressive fashion? My theory: Obama's chief concern in calling Buehrle was to make sure that black outfielder DeWayne Wise, who made a spectacular catch to preserve the perfect game, got his due. Obama even told Buehrle in that inappropriately high-handed manner of his that he should buy Wise a steak dinner. With no dog in the fight in the Humber victory, Obama neglects to make the call, showing obvious inconsistency, and no one calls him on it."

There's about a 2-3% chance you're right.....which is still a chance. Interesting theory.

Dan in DC

Aaron in Israel said...

This and the previous post (two years late, but whatever) are a big step towards reality: distinguishing between "the Jews" or "the blacks" or whatever, and their self-appointed leaders. You're avoiding the common mistakes on both sides, which are to say (1) that "the blacks" etc. say such-and-such, and to say (2) the "black leaders" etc. don't represent the people.

I've noticed for a while that on the anti-Semitic right, when elite gentiles support immigration, they're "elites"; when elite Jews support immigration, they're "Jews."

My own wish is to see socio-economic class considered every now and then in these ethnic polemics. For instance, instead of comparing blacks/Hispanics/Jews to white gentiles, try comparing them to white gentiles of the same socio-economic class and the same geographic area (urban, rural, etc.). For instance, how do Jews feel about immigration compared to gentiles with the same income and education level living in the same urban/rural/suburban type of area?

By the way, since we're going over old news, Richard Spencer also published data at altright showing that a large majority of Jewish-Americans say immigration should be reduced.

Anonymous said...

O/T: Black mob beats white man. Now in critical condition.

"As the attackers walked away, leaving Owen bleeding on the ground, Parker says one of them said "Now that's justice for Trayvon."

http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/man-beaten-mob-critical-condition-ar-3659891/

Anonymous said...

Catholics, again and again, point out Israel's attempts to steer Militant America for its purposes. Jews fight back with slurs like antisemitism and treason. Other Christians seem too concerned with proving their military chops to question what (who) they are fighting for. Are these people more afraid of sacrificing their careers than their lives? It's one thing to fight side by side with someone for a cause and another to fight as a proxy. When are these Catholics going to get in line and learn that their children's lives are a small price to pay for our most loyal ally.

Anonymous said...

The advantage of recession.

Anonymous said...

For First Time Since Depression, More Mexicans Leave U.S. Than Enter

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/for-first-time-since-depression-more-mexicans-leave-us-than-enter/2012/04/23/gIQApyiDdT_story.html

"A four-decade tidal wave of Mexican immigration to the United States has receded, causing a historic shift in migration patterns as more Mexicans now leave the United States for Mexico than the other way around, according to a report from the Pew Hispanic Center.

It is the first reversal in the trend since the Depression, and experts say that a declining Mexican birthrate and other factors may make it permanent.

“I think the massive boom in Mexican immigration is over and I don’t think it will ever return to the numbers we saw in the 1990s and 2000s,” said Douglas Massey, a professor of sociology and public affairs at Princeton University and co-director of the Mexican Migration Project, which has been gathering data on the subject for 30 years."

Anonymous said...

Looks like a race war has started

Maya said...

Jeffery said:
"What does it mean that Nugent and other White rock stars could get 300,000 people out to a concert in 1978, but no White rock star could do that today?

The absolute numbers of Whites hasn't gone down that much, if any. But they no longer gather the way they used to for musical events. This looks like the destruction of a culture and of social cohesiveness among Whites."

Jeffery, by the time I really got into music, the size of the audiences of the most popular white acts already failed to reflect the size of the white population. But i don't think it's because our culture was/is being destroyed. Quite the opposite.

While African Americans (I don't know how black people act in other countries) are extremely conformist and all tend to support the same few performers, white people tend to appreciate choice and artistry a lot more. Even in the 80s, technology made it possible for garage bands to produce cheap recordings which could be copied and circulated among their fans, gaining more fans. Now, with the internet, people have a lot of choice. And yes, white people are more likely to explore and have broader tastes, so we do listen to music from other cultures, but, in my experience, the majority of the music that young white people listen to is still produced by other young white people.

Also, I think a lot more white bands make it and reach fame and success nowadays, but super stardom is a lot less attainable. One reason, as i mentioned before, is choice, as in, I would listen to band A if it were the only one of its kind known to me, but given a choice, I prefer band G. BUT, it's also because now kids just listen to a lot more stuff than the kids from the 70s (I think). When I started my first non fast food job in college, and began to earn decent money, I'd go see a band that i really, really liked once or twice a month as they were touring through Ohio one after another. Then, after graduation, i spent 6 months back home in Chicago doing a paid corporate internship. I saved nothing because living in such a common spot for touring bands, my cousin and I would go see a show of some act we knew and were really excited about, at least, once a week. Today's bands simply can't ask for the same mass adulation and the same ticket prices when people love so many different bands at once. For many people it's not a matter of choosing A over B, but having to share one's disposable income and disposable time between A, B, C and through Z.

P.S. This wasn't done on purpose, and I didn't realize it at the time, but all the shows we've attended were of white artists/performers. And they were all famous and successful enough to support themselves with their craft, playing to audiences ranging from several hundreds to several thousands. Here are some of them, in case you're interested:
Breaking Benjamin, Death Cab For Cutie, Postal Service, Arcade Fire, Joy Formidable, Silver Sun Pickups, Placebo, Jack's Mannequin, Fleet Foxes, Flogging Molly, Arctic Monkeys, The Kills, Angels in Airways, Cold War Kids, Foster the People, The Academy Is, Gogol Bordello, Nine Inch Nails, Linkin Park, Sea Wolf, The Killers, Augustana, Muse, Modest Mouse, She Wants Revenge, Smile Empty Soul, Thursday, Depeche Mode, System of a Down, Cake, Explosions in the Sky, Klaxons, Kaiser Cheifs, The kooks, Kean, Fanfarlo, Porcupine Tree, White Stripes, Jason Mraz, Radiohead and a bunch of others.

Auntie Analogue said...

It seems to me that in this age of pervasive cyber media, having followers is not nearly as important as is having an audience. Having followers gets you nothing but preaching to the choir; having an audience spreads a message to far more people over far more space, including cyberspace.

Maya said...

Whiskey said...
"In 1978 there were far more young White men. Who Nugent appealed to, and now there are far fewer. The Birth Dearth had consequences."

I've heard this theory for the absence of a huge rock act before and it always seemed silly to me. Even with fewer white boys born in the 70s and 80s, do you think there was ever a shortage of those who dreamed of making it as a band? Come on! Perhaps you're hinting that there might be enough warm bodies to fill the void, but not enough to chance that one in a million talent, so my generation's music is lacking in quality compared to that of the 70s because i heard that a couple of times as well. If so, I'd simply have to disagree. Seventies had a lot of great stuff, but so did the 2000s, believe it or not. With hundreds of millions of people in Europe and North America, and tens of thousands of bands in existence at any given time, potent art is always being created somewhere. You just don't know about it because you are not interested in today's scene. What you hear on the radio while at the dentist's office doesn't reflect what the young people are into because radio stopped being the way to discover music a long time ago.

Drunk Idiot said...

Scott said...

"A Jewish-American who just misses the cut to get into the Ivy Leagues will tend to curse the unjust policy, but the average Jewish billionaire will tend to support it, since as long as the Ivies remain 24% Jewish, and Jews count as Whites, more affirmative action means fewer white males to compete with."

Vanderbilt instituted de facto affirmative action for Jews ten years ago because the school's administration determined that it didn't have enough enough cachet on the East Coast, or have enough wealthy Jewish alums/donors. What's interesting is that the administration was completely upfront about why they were going after Jewish students from the East Coast. Their goal was to get Jewish enrollment up to 15-20% of the student body. And they succeeded: Jewish enrollment at Vanderbilt went from 3% in 2002 to roughly 15% in 2008.

Vandy was just too much of a bastion for upper crust southern WASPs before it undertook its "northeastern strategy." But now it's finally getting to be more like the school it was modeled after in the first place -- Duke (often jokingly referred to by students as the "Southern University of New Jersey" for its heavily ethnic and NY/NJ/Philly-centric student body).

And there are lots of Vanderbilt wannabees out there now (including Tom Wolfe's little 'ol alma matter nestled up in them thurr Blue Ridge mountains).

Anonymous said...

I suspect that the rise of the internet is as much responsible for the lack of white rock stars today as anything. These days people can listen to the sort of music they like the best, rather than be limited to liking a subset of what gets played on the radio.

The end result is a collection of fragmented niches, none of which has real mass appeal.

Anonymous said...

Stanley Lieber

Anonymous said...

Kurt Cobain AND Axl Rose, Steve, the two biggest stars of the 90s. One killed himself and the other went the full Howard Hughes and may as well have killed himself.

However, if Cobain came back from the dead and reformed Nirvana, or if Axl got the original Guns 'N Roses back together, they'd easily fill whatever venue you wanted to name.

el dorado said...

"You just don't know about it because you are not interested in today's scene. What you hear on the radio while at the dentist's office doesn't reflect what the young people are into because radio stopped being the way to discover music a long time ago.

That's absolutely true. Top 40 has been replaced by all manner of other electronic forums. I don't keep up with what the teens listen to but I have discovered a plethora of other kinds of music the radio rarely to never would play, and these various kinds of music have millions of followers. In fact, there is far more interest in music than there used to be--I'm convinced. Rap just counts the lowest common denominator and keeps it up because The Powers That Be think it's what makes the black element feel culturally powerful and included and the non-blacks who like it feel ... well, I don't know what they feel. Cool I guess, whatever that is.
But definitely radio no longer introduces the most influential music among the young.

Charlotte said...

"My only contribution to this blog will be to insist that no one, ever, under any circumstances, ever, for any reason, criticizes the Armenians."

What's to criticize about a people who could carve elephants that fit into the eye of needle? (National Geographic, 19Somtime)

Evil Sandmich said...

You mean the mother for whom the study of peasant blacksmithing was more important than her son? Judging from her priorities and considerations I'd say that she got the treatment that she deserved.

Anyway, I always got the impression (from blacks) that black 'leaders' like Jackson and Sharpton are less leaders than they are con men who can find their way to the front of a mob. They're still "their guys", but I never got the impression that they garnered much more respect than a hustler at the end of the street.

Anonymous said...

Steve: Why do you capitalize "Jews" but give Gentiles the ignominious "g"?


Because one Jew is worth 20 gentiles. Steve knows this. Why don't you?

rob said...

The Pixies reunited a few years back. IIRC, they sold out big venues for every show.

pat said...

Another reason there are so many black leaders was also in Tom Wolfe's reporting. The federal government simply paid for them. No tricky sociology required.

In the early sixties the feds got the brilliant idea that the way to make inroads in the ghettos was through the gangs. They came up with a program to pay gang leaders. These criminals got regular federal government checks. They invented a fancy title for these guys - "community organizer".

These organizers were supposed to be, among other things, a means of distributing funds to their inner city followers. That didn't work out too well. They got the money all right but they seemed to be a trifle reluctant to distribute it.

One of the focuses of this program was Hunter's Point in San Francisco.

In the late sixties I became a social worker for the City and County of San Francisco. I was just about the only one in the department who was brave (stupid?) enough to actually do a home visit at Hunter's Point.

I also had a gang leader on my case load. There seemed to be an informal policy to transfer the dangerous ones to me. Most of the civil service social workers were of course women and the many of the men were prone to spontaneous weeping. At the time people who knew me found it hard to believe I was a social worker. Me too.

My gang leader was was a huge guy who was the leader of the Samoans. Tom Wolfe also wrote brilliantly about these Samoans. I visited them at their gang headquarters - even I was intimidated. Everyone in the room was over 300 pounds.

But their leader (whom I'll call TM) was a sad soul. He was constantly complaining that he couldn't get any of that wonderful federal community organizing money.

I tried to tell him that the feds had wised up, but he was inconsolable.


Albertosaurus

Anonymous said...

Rock became wussy and so turned off teenage boys who went on to play super-marines in video games. Nowadays the only rockers are SWPL indie rockers. Someone needs to bring back the tough/sexy to rock music after having been killed by the likes of REM.

poolside said...

Black "leaders" today are helped along by the presence of black media personalities like Roland Martin (CNN) and Toure (Time) -- who have large followings among African-Americans.

Whites may think they are idiots, but they push along the messages that Sharpton and Jackson want pushed, and they have a pretty big megaphone. Plus, they don't have the stigma that a Sharpton does.

It was those folks who fanned the flames of the Trayvon incident -- which they are happy to brag about.

no more tears said...

"His mother died of cancer three weeks later on November 7, 1995, unvisited by Obama. Dying mother or Minister Farrakhan: who is more important to an aspiring black politician?"

There's a remarkable lack of any recording of authentic interaction between B.O. and his supposed family. The photos we do have look cobbled together, almost like he was drawn in as a cartoon character.
Some of these conspiracy theories are starting to make more sense. His mother isn't really dead. In fact, he never had a mother at all. He was hatched by Malcolm X and Frank Marshall Davis. All makes perfect sense now.

Anonymous said...

>Has anyone else noticed that Obama, who called Mark Buehrle a couple years ago after he pitched a perfect game for the White Sox, has not done the same for Sox pitcher Philip Humber, who just did the same thing in even more impressive fashion?

Except Philip Humber's 'perfect game' isn't one. Galarraga's game was. Of course white people don't want to here that name ever again.

Philip Humber failed to strike out Brendan Ryan, the last hitter.

But Ryan, a white man, refused to run to the first base, giving Humber the perfect game.

I am sure if Ryan was not white the outcome would have been very different.

Steve Sailer said...

Welcome back, Albertosaurus.

Anonymous said...

"..his mother died of cancer three weeks later..unvisited by Obama.."

That's REALLY COLD. But that's your thanks Stanley, for marrying an essentially worthless black African man who abandoned you and your mulatto son who you then had to raise without his support. Looks like Obama really is his father's son. How different this foolish white girl's life might have been if she had just had some good racial sense.

Anonymous said...

I'll bet someone could make a killing as the 'leader' of bald people or fat people or short people or depressed people, etc. We need many more leaders.

Anonymous said...

"Here are some of them, in case you're interested:
Breaking Benjamin, Death Cab For Cutie, Postal Service, Arcade Fire, Joy Formidable, Silver Sun Pickups, Placebo, Jack's Mannequin, Fleet Foxes, Flogging Molly, Arctic Monkeys, The Kills, Angels in Airways, Cold War Kids, Foster the People, The Academy Is, Gogol Bordello, Nine Inch Nails, Linkin Park, Sea Wolf, The Killers, Augustana, Muse, Modest Mouse, She Wants Revenge, Smile Empty Soul, Thursday, Depeche Mode, System of a Down, Cake, Explosions in the Sky, Klaxons, Kaiser Cheifs, The kooks, Kean, Fanfarlo, Porcupine Tree, White Stripes, Jason Mraz, Radiohead and a bunch of others."

Radiohead sucks.

Anonymous said...

"Looks like a race war has started"

It's not a war when one side does all the attacking.

Leader of Sailer Blog Commentariat said...

WE DEMAND KOMMENT KONTROL STOP SHOOTING DOWN OUR COMMENTS WITH WHIM-CHESTER 73. THAT BE RACIST.

David said...

The mass murderer Brevik would fit this pattern; the MSM regards him as the leader of legions of KKK'ers, while in reality he may have a handful of co-conspirators but nothing more.

Oh, journalists and their wire services 'n' crackberry contacts! Keep phoning it in, fellas (and women).

TGGP said...

I host "Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers" here.

Maya said...

"Radiohead sucks"

You should enjoy whatever strikes your fancy, sir/madam.
However, Radiohead is a great example of a band that is composed of and listened to, almost exclusively, by white people, and that has a large enough following to ensure VERY lavish lifestyles for its members for over a decade now. All I'm trying to say is that the white music scene is bigger than ever, and the white music fans are numerous, involved and very passionate about the music they love. Though it's worth noting that they don't really think of it as "the white scene/music". I've waited by a venue's doors from morning on several occasions and been to quite a few festivals in my time, and I don't remember a single conversation that would touch on racial issues. The rare black kids were always just accepted without a second thought. It was easy because a black guy in a PLACEBO t-shirt who is trying to learn how to tune his shitty starter kit guitar while discussing Igby Goes Down, is very, VERY unlikely to think that everything is about his race.

Maya said...

"I'll bet someone could make a killing as the 'leader' of bald people or fat people or short people or depressed people, etc. We need many more leaders."

There are a bunch of Fat Pride leaders out there. There is Linda Bacon (for serious, I'm not trolling)- the founder of Health At Every Size (HAES) movement. Jennifer Portnick is a 240 lbs worth of a woman who didn't get hired as a jazzersize instructor and went on a crusade over it. She now teaches classes of her own design. Btw, you ever heard of chair airobics that you can do while sitting in a chair? Yeah, you should check it out.
Marilyn Wann is like the don (donna?) of the Fat Rights Movement. She is the writer of the book Fat!So? and has a website by the same name. She does all kinds of stuff on college campuses and events and to aide the civil rights of her community.

And, of course, NAAFA (National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance) has been around forever fighting discrimination in employment, dating and adoption and bias and discrimination against the fat Americans in the medical community. However, many within the community complain that, much like NAACP, NAAFA has grown complacent, elitist, and doesn't advocate effectively for the common fat folk. Anyway, if you are interested, there are still tickets available for the 2012 convention. They usually have a fashion show. Also, contact them for information about The Fat prom in your area.
http://www.naafaonline.com/dev2/

These people got laws against fat discrimination passed in several places.

I did a research project on this when I was being taught about how to teach the kids to not be anorexic... This is just scraping the surface, you understand. Please let me know if you want to know more.

Anonymous said...

Charlotte said...
"My only contribution to this blog will be to insist that no one, ever, under any circumstances, ever, for any reason, criticizes the Armenians."

What's to criticize about a people who could carve elephants that fit into the eye of needle? (National Geographic, 19Somtime)

I remember that issue, it was from 1978; perhaps someone can narrow down the month. It gives a new spin on "it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle."

As for myself, I respect the Armenians for being survivors; much like the Jews but much less pushy and more empathic.

Anonymous said...

Video of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman surfaces!!

Anonymous said...

Maya said:

These people got laws against fat discrimination passed in several places.

Fat discrimination? So that's why i can't get a date. I'm being discriminated against!

NOTA said...

I always assume the commonly named leaders of ethnic groups are chosen and promoted by media types who want to be able to point to something as the black perspective (hispanic perspective,Christian perspective, whatever) on some issue. That doesn't require any particular legitimacy on the part of the spokesmen.

Anonymous said...

are you talking about David FRum at the end? I like him. I think you were dead on when you thought he had a scheudeuele as to when to allow himself to touch immigration.

Anonymous said...

As a half jewish scot I agree. I would not be so quick to be all K-Mac claims. The "collective gamble" argument (i.e. importing population that don't care much for the jews-blacks, latinos) is not solid in my eyes.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

""As an influential 20th Jewish thinker once pointed out, "With great power comes great responsibility.""

Stan Lee is Scots-Irish?!?"

Many, if not most, of the classic comic-book heroes were created by jews. Superman, Batman, Spiderman, etc. can actually be viewed as jewish revenge fantasies.

Oh, I'm sorry, you thought that comic-books were somehow "our" culture (some culture!). No, they are someone elses. "Our" culture used to prize stories about the old west.

Hollywood doesn't make too many westerns anymore, do they?

Kylie said...

"I did a research project on this when I was being taught about how to teach the kids to not be anorexic... This is just scraping the surface, you understand. Please let me know if you want to know more."

Actually, I'd like to hop in the Wayback Machine and know less about this.

Apparently there is nothing about your once-noble profession that does not compromise your integrity, diminish your dignity, wither your self-respect and sap your patience.

No wonder my neighbor, a primary school teacher, took early retirement.

Anthony said...

Unlike with Mexicans, there is a lot of talent, a lot of organizational skill, and a lot of money available.

There is even an organization, one of many, called Congress of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations. But it's just one of many...

Maya said...

"Apparently there is nothing about your once-noble profession that does not compromise your integrity, diminish your dignity, wither your self-respect and sap your patience.

No wonder my neighbor, a primary school teacher, took early retirement."

Sooo... does that mean you wouldn't like to buy a self-esteem scale to help fund a fat acceptance pool party? It's just like a regular scale, but with words like "sassy", "gorgeous", "wonderful" and "sexy" taped over the numbers. Very empowering.

But seriously, I refuse to believe it's like this everywhere. My teaching license will be set in stone this coming year. After that, we're heading to the Pacific Northwest. I'm told that even the bad schools there are nowhere near the level of the schools in my current Southern, majority black city. My ultimate target are the good, well performing schools, of course, and I have my eye on the suburbs of Seattle. That district is expanding like crazy with all the tech talent moving in and having kids. I liked school as a kid. We read a lot of books and discussed them, went on long field trips, performed interesting science experiments that required ordering all kinds of weird supplies and going to real labs, made our own soap, entered writing contests and we actually learned instead of drilling for some stupid high stakes test because the vast majority of us already scored above proficient and found those standardized exams insultingly easy. And my school was not the best one in the area, by far. These types of people still exist, and they still have about as many kids as they did a decade ago. I plan to go where they are and have myself a fulfilling, low stress career.

And, yes, my MA in Teaching has been a frustrating, intellectually numbing and overall annoying experience. It's almost over. I'm almost done doing time. And once I move on, I'll be able to say in all honesty that I'd learned a lot in these several years. I didn't know any of THIS before. Now I do.

Kylie said...

'Sooo... does that mean you wouldn't like to buy a self-esteem scale to help fund a fat acceptance pool party?"

OK. Now you've got my attention. My guess is that the fatties have to wade into the pool one by one to avoid the really weird tsunami-like water displacement that would occur if they all hopped in simultaneously. Oh, the imagery.

"My ultimate target are the good, well performing schools, of course, and I have my eye on the suburbs of Seattle."

Right. Where you'll be teaching the children of the parents whose liberal beliefs enabled the growth of the dysfunctional "urban underclass" that you're so eager to escape.

Maya said...

"Right. Where you'll be teaching the children of the parents whose liberal beliefs enabled the growth of the dysfunctional "urban underclass" that you're so eager to escape."

So? Doctors treat all kinds of people, even those with different ideologies from their own. I'll get to teach primary school, foreign languages, middle school science, English or history, and watch the students learn. Sick people need to be treated, and children need to be guided through academic basics. You know, I'd gladly teach these kids of drug addicts, criminals and welfare frauds, if they'd only show up, sit down, shut up for a second and quit punching each other. When a child gains new skills, finds a new perspective or encounters something worth contemplating, it's a beautiful thing, no matter whose child it is. And we never know what will become of these young people. Don't be so quick to dismiss them just because you dislike their parents.

Besides, those Bellevue techies are a lot more realistic than it would appear at first glance, especially, those who are already parents. I've been a lot more vocal than before about why I dislike my current job, and who I believe to be at fault for the current overall test scores in America, and I find that most people old enough to drink are shockingly receptive and sympathetic. Seattle was no different when I visited friends there this past December. Random people I met at a hooka lounge, at a fire dance show and while snowboarding were willing to believe my experiences and were convinced that people are responsible for their actions and should be rewarded based on merit and effort. Btw, a few of my friends work in the video game industry all over Bellevue, and they swear that race and gender play absolutely no role in whom the company hires. It's basically a diverse group of whites and Asians, and guys vastly outnumber girls. A girlfriend of mine does book keeping and secretarial-type work at one of these computer game companies, and she says the vibe is very relaxed, friendly and not at all misogynistic. She says they interview women all the time, but the men get hired a lot more often because they are more qualified. They all seemed fine with that outcome, and they all seemed secure in the knowledge that they are not prejudice against anyone.

Of course, I'm sure that there is a fair chunk of the self-righteous, annoying folk in the area, just like everywhere else, and they might or might not express their boredom at some point by attacking Christmas trees and demanding more to be done to teach the children about the plight of someone or other. That's life, Kylie. I'll deal. At any rate, I'll get to do what I, more or less, like at work, and I'll gain plenty of time to do what I like after work. My new students will gain a passionate, caring teacher who'll have no desire to indoctrinate them with any sort of a political agenda. Win-win-win situation!

Kylie said...

"So? Doctors treat all kinds of people, even those with different ideologies from their own."

Yes, doctors treat all kinds of people. But here in the US, they're still allowed to practice Western medicine when they treat all those different kinds of people. My point is rather than teaching the Western canon, you'll be pushing the multi-culti agenda.

"Don't be so quick to dismiss them just because you dislike their parents."

I'm not. I was raised by a typical DWL myself.

"My new students will gain a passionate, caring teacher who'll have no desire to indoctrinate them with any sort of a political agenda."

It's not your desire to indoctrinate kids with a PC agenda that concerns me. I was under the impression that teachers are not the sole arbiters of what they are allowed to teach, that they are answerable to their administration, the local school board, the NEA, etc. Will you really be allowed to teach other than a PC curriculum? I would not have thought so. My neighbor took early retirement in part because if she stayed, she would have had no choice but to teach a multi-culti curriculum that she was opposed to--and this is in a relatively conservative, overwhelmingly white small town.

Good luck. Something tells me you're going to need it.