November 15, 2012

Hey, I know the answer to this question!

The NYT has various brain trusters puzzle their puzzlers over this question:
Throughout the presidential campaign, pundits zeroed in on Latino voters: why President Obama might lose them, how Mitt Romney could woo them, whether they would even vote this year. In the end, the turnout set records, and Latinos overwhelmingly favored Obama. What never changed was the tendency to discuss Latino voters as a bloc. But the talking heads on TV didn’t devote air time to “the Irish vote” or “Korean American turnout.” 
Why are some immigrants and their descendants considered simply “American,” while others are still thought of as “outsiders”? How does an immigrant group come to be thought of as native?

Hispanics are becoming an unmeltable ethnicity because Hispanics are legally classified by the Office of Management & Budget as entitled to affirmative action, while Irishmen are not. *

Of course, contrary to this question about why nobody talks about Korean American turnout, we do talk about "Asian turnout." A major reason is that Asians are entitled to some affirmative action benefits, but not to others. So they fall in between Latino immigrants and European immigrants in salience.

* Yes, I realize that raises all sorts of fascinating questions about the affirmative action eligibility of Charlie Sheen ** v. his brother Emilio Estevez. Fortunately, the Pew Hispanic Center can answer all your questions.

** Have you noticed how Charlie increasingly looks like the Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team logo?

36 comments:

Anonymous said...

But the talking heads on TV didn’t devote air time to “the Irish vote” or “Korean American turnout.”

Maybe the NYT brains trust needs a lesson in geography to figure out that the USA shares a border with Mexico. To get from Ireland or Korea to the USA requires crossing several thousand miles of ocean. This is why Hispanics are discussed as a group.

Aaron Gross said...

Your answer can't be right. First counter-example: There's no affirmative action for Muslim Americans, is there?

One talking point I see in the anti-Semitic comments is that Jews don't identify as white. I'm very skeptical of that (how would you even measure it?), but if it's true, then that's another counter-example. I'd go along more with the claim that Jews see themselves, and are seen by others, partly as outsiders and partly as insiders. So to that extent, they're definitely a counter-example.

To take your own example, Asian-Americans: the explanation "some government benefits but not others" won't do. On the whole, Asian-Americans are strongly harmed by affirmative action, probably more so than are whites. But Asian-Americans are still considered outsiders.

For what it's worth, I don't think there's one dominant explanation. I think there are several factors, some more applicable than others to various groups.

Anonymous said...

You do know that Charlie Sheen's real name is Carlos Estevez and that there is no difference between their ethnicity since they are full brothers?

Steve Sailer said...

"There's no affirmative action for Muslim Americans, is there?"

If Muslims are from Pakistan, India, or Bangladesh, they get affirmative action in government contracting and SBA loans.

If they are from Afghanistan, or points west, they are out of luck.

wren said...

I recently read about some guy who thinks he is a woman and changes in the girls' locker room at the college he attends. He is 43. Because high school girls also change in that locker room, and he, apparently, sits there with his dick hanging out, some of the coaches got upset. Then, he got upset that they were not tolerant of his rights, and tehn the college offered a sincere apology and would like him to continue to use the girls' locker room even though he is clearly just a middle aged man with all his middle age man parts hanging around.

That got me thinking though. Why aren't there transracial people who can apply for affirmative action, etc? If I feel like I am black but I was born into a white body, why can't I just be black? And get affirmative action?

Anonymous said...

"Charlie Sheen" is a stage name. The actual name of the actor in question is Carlos Estevez.

You'll be beating up on Scottish people because of "Jon Stewart" next.

Anonymous said...

The Sheen/Estevez clan is from Spain...and I had always assumed that "Penisulares" were not included as Latinos as they are defined here in the USA.

However, it appears that they are now considered Latino. Maybe because we beat Spain in a war?

Anonymous said...

Many immigrants used to Anglicize their names. Thus, Stein became Stone and etc.

It's time for all whites to Latinize their names.

Sailez.
Udolphez.
Gummez.
Luke Leaez.
Raimondo Sawhillo.

Anonymous said...

Time for iSteve to become iEsteban.

Sailez might even get federal subsidies.

Bilbao said...

Aaron Gross writes: "On the whole, Asian-Americans are strongly harmed by affirmative action, probably more so than are whites. On the whole, Asian-Americans are strongly harmed by affirmative action, probably more so than are whites.

This myth is repeated over and over in every corner, and it's BS. Asian-Americans are the biggest recipients of affirmative action benefits, per capita, and, in some areas, the biggest recipient overall.

It's about contracts and jobs, not college admissions. But it's in the Fine Print, and no one wants you to read it.

College admissions, like political battles in academia, are fought over so fiercely because there is so little at stake. But even there, Asian groups still receive benefits where they are underrepresented.

It's called 'disadvantaged minority" -- look it up.

Asians - and that includes US born as well as immigrants from India, Pakistan, China and Japan, and everywhere in between - are the biggest user of racial/ethnic preferences in awarding of Federal, State, Munincipal and Corporate contracts and sub-contracts. This is HUGE. They are also big time recipients of affirmative action preferences for government and corporate hiring.
And the last time the main stream media wrote about it was guess when ?????

September 9th, 1997

Auntie Analogue said...


"There's no affirmative action for Muslim Americans, is there?"

Does the U.S. Government hiring jihadis to guard the U.S. consulate in Benghazi count as Affirmative Action? After all, those jihadi hired guns got the jobs that normally go to U.S. Marines.

Anonymous said...

Charlie Sheen acts Hispanic though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_sheen#Substance_abuse_and_legal_issues

"On May 20, 1998, Sheen overdosed while using cocaine and was hospitalized. On August 11, 1998, Sheen, already on probation in California for a previous drug offense, had his probation extended for an extra year and entered a rehab clinic.[81][82] In a 2004 interview, Sheen admitted that the overdose was caused by his experimentation with injecting cocaine.[83]

On December 25, 2009, Sheen was arrested for assaulting his wife, Brooke Mueller in Aspen, Colorado. He was released the same day from jail after posting an $8,500 bond.[84][85] Sheen was charged with felony menacing, as well as third-degree assault and criminal mischief.[86] On August 2, 2010, Sheen, represented by Yale Galanter,[87] pleaded guilty to misdemeanor assault as part of a plea bargain that included dismissal of the other charges against him. Sheen was sentenced to 30 days in a drug rehab center, 30 days of probation, and 36 hours of anger management.[88]

On October 26, 2010, the police removed Sheen from his suite at the Plaza Hotel after he reportedly caused $7,000 in damage.[89] According to the NYPD, Sheen admitted to drinking and using cocaine the night of the incident.[89] He was released after entering a hospital for observation.[90]"

Anonymous said...

A few threads ago someone pointed out the plurality of the U.S. populace are of Central European descent, namely the Germanic subset around the Rhineland, but your typical ethnic spox likely can't tell Welsh from Walloons. I think it's probably past time to stop humoring the white/non-white binary when dealing with bad-faith community organizers. That's just, like, a social construct, man. Or as Stanley Ann Dunham sagely put it "They are NOT my people"

Anonymous said...

And the last time the main stream media wrote about it was guess when ?????

September 9th, 1997


Do you have a link?

Santander said...

Simple, pithy, understandable, emailable, graffitiable and effective. Spread the word.

There must be Comprehensive Affirmative Action Reform before any Comprehensive Immigration Reform (aka amnesty).

There must be a Total Immigration Moratorium until there is Comprehensive Affirmative Action Reform.

90 percent of immigrants are receiving and will continue to receive preferences over US born white Americans.

There must be Comprehensive Affirmative Action Reform before any Comprehensive Immigration Reform (aka amnesty).

There must be Comprehensive Affirmative Action Reform before any Comprehensive Immigration Reform (aka amnesty).

There must be Comprehensive Affirmative Action Reform before any Comprehensive Immigration Reform (aka amnesty).

Anonymous said...

Asians - and that includes US born as well as immigrants from India, Pakistan, China and Japan, and everywhere in between - are the biggest user of racial/ethnic preferences in awarding of Federal, State, Munincipal and Corporate contracts and sub-contracts. This is HUGE. They are also big time recipients of affirmative action preferences for government and corporate hiring.

I've worked in gov't contracting and never noticed many Asians. Maybe they're involved in smaller contractors that aren't as recognized. Do you have more info on this?

irishman said...

A useful way to undermine affirmative action would be to narrow the definition of who counts as white by using European as the label instead of caucasian or white. Israel is in Asia so Jews are out, so are Arabs like Mitch Daniels and John Sununu as well as Armenians. That out to free up a few spots for plain old white people.

Hey, if you can't beat the system, break it.

Anonymous said...

It shows how America has changed, since Charlie anglicized(or Irishicized) his name. Nowadays, he would never have changed it, and maybe soon enough people will be Latinicizing there surnames... who knowss??

Anonymous said...

"Charlie Sheen acts Hispanic though:"

All those acts are very Irish behaviorly. Hard to decipher which one is to blame.

Being of virtually the same genetic stock as Charlie, half Irish half Iberian. And misbehaving as he does,I always attributed it to my Irish side. Tho I could be wrong;...

Cail Corishev said...

People don't think of Hispanics as Americans because they (at least the large majority of them that make up this immovable voting block) don't think of themselves as Americans.

Duh.

Anonymous said...

irishman:"A useful way to undermine affirmative action would be to narrow the definition of who counts as white by using European as the label instead of caucasian or white. Israel is in Asia so Jews are out, so are Arabs like Mitch Daniels and John Sununu as well as Armenians. That out to free up a few spots for plain old white people.

Hey, if you can't beat the system, break it."

Would not work. The majority of American Jews are European in origin (Ashkenazi).

Anonymous said...

There IS affirmative action for Irishmen in Boston. It's called city government.

Anonymous said...

This is a bit of a red herring. Asians do not benefit from affirmative action. Where does this happen? If anything Asians get some token benefit that Sailor types obsess over because it helps fit their world view that every race is trying to game the white man.

The Irish already benefit from a form of affirmative action. It's called white privilege. No matter how much white people try to bury their collective heads in the sand and try to pretend the world is against them, it won't change the facts.

Paul Mendez said...

But the talking heads on TV didn’t devote air time to “the Irish vote” or “Korean American turnout.”

If there were talking heads on TV in 1840, I'll bet you they'd have been all over the Irish vote.

And in Northern Virginia, there was a little talk of the Korean American turnout -- GOP was trying to get some mileage out of Obama's "You didn't build that" with Korean small business owners.

Anonymous said...

The Sheen/Estevez clan is from Spain...and I had always assumed that "Penisulares" were not included as Latinos as they are defined here in the USA.

However, it appears that they are now considered Latino. Maybe because we beat Spain in a war?


In New York a distinction is made between an actual Spaniard and someone from Latin America.

...New York Executive Law Article 15-A, New York's "affirmative action" statute for minority-owned businesses, because the law does not include in its definition of "Hispanic" people of Spanish or Portuguese descent unless they also come from Latin America.

Anonymous said...

but your typical ethnic spox likely can't tell Welsh from Walloons

Or Wallachians
Or Anglos named Wallace

Anonymous said...

"One talking point I see in the anti-Semitic comments is that Jews don't identify as white. I'm very skeptical of that "

why not call it anti-white comments then? ruh-roh, I'm scots-irish!

JI said...

I didn't realize that Asians get some affirmative action benefits and not others. So basically, affirmative action benefits are directly proportional to how pathetic you are as a group. If you're black or native American (including Aztecs and Mayans), then wow, you are really super pathetic and you get it all, baby.

But if you're Asian, well sorry, but only some Asians are partially pathetic, so we'll only give you a portion of what those others get.

And if you're white, regardless of where your family came from, you're not at all pathetic so you nothing.

But what if you're a Mexican who's descended from the Spanish? You're definitely white, but does the US gov't give you pathetic glory status because you can check-mark the box labeled "Hispanic"?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said..."The Irish already benefit from a form of affirmative action. It's called white privilege. No matter how much white people try to bury their collective heads in the sand and try to pretend the world is against them, it won't change the facts."

You're a douche. The word "privilege" by necessity implies somebody is giving something to somebody. Whites have "privilege" in the US because that's who founded and build the country and built every bridge and every road and every building. And paid for it all. The privilege being received is by losers that showed up later and asked for stuff they had no hand in creating.

Otis McWrong said...

wren said..."I recently read about some guy who thinks he is a woman and changes in the girls' locker room at the college he attends. He is 43. Because high school girls also change in that locker room, and he, apparently, sits there with his dick hanging out...that got me thinking though. Why aren't there transracial people who can apply for affirmative action, etc? If I feel like I am black but I was born into a white body, why can't I just be black? And get affirmative action?"

Great quesion. But you'd never win because there are no rules. Or the rules are what the left says they are and they can be changed at any time, for any reason, with or without notice.

irishman said...

"irishman:"A useful way to undermine affirmative action would be to narrow the definition of who counts as white by using European as the label instead of caucasian or white. Israel is in Asia so Jews are out, so are Arabs like Mitch Daniels and John Sununu as well as Armenians. That out to free up a few spots for plain old white people.

Hey, if you can't beat the system, break it."

Would not work. The majority of American Jews are European in origin (Ashkenazi)."

But didn't you get the memo? Race is a mere social construction. Or so all the professors, many of whom happen to be Jewish, tell is. So construct it as something else.

Anonymous said...



Irishman:"But didn't you get the memo? Race is a mere social construction. Or so all the professors, many of whom happen to be Jewish, tell is. So construct it as something else."

O.K., give us a "construction" of race that works for your purposes.

Anonymous said...

"Hispanic" people of Portuguese descent

This is nonsense. Guess that is why it exists.

Rev. Right said...

Hispanics are becoming an unmeltable ethnicity because Hispanics are legally classified by the Office of Management & Budget as entitled to affirmative action, while Irishmen are not.

Excellent distillation of the way government designs and manages divisions in the populace.

The government incentivizes identification as Hispanic to block any tendencies toward assimilation and thus (as usual), gets more of what they pay for and less of what they don't.

Anonymous said...

Israel is in Asia so Jews are out

Most American Ashkenazi Jews can't directly trace any ancestors to Israel by genealogic methods. My historically informed conjecture is that the last ancestors of mine who resided there died nearly 2000 years ago.

Anonymous said...

The government incentivizes identification as Hispanic to block any tendencies toward assimilation

Mark Teixeira is a yankee and he seems to have assimilated well.