April 13, 2013

Mark Zuckerberg's cheap labor lobby

Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg has put together an immigration pressure group entitled fwd.us. A week ago Politico recounted Zuckerberg aide Joe Green's memo:
Under a section called “our tactical assets,” the prospectus lists three reasons why “people in tech” can be organized into “one of the most powerful political forces.” 
“1: We control massive distribution channels, both as companies and individuals. We saw the tip of the iceberg with SOPA/PIPA. 
“2: “Our voice carries a lot of weight because we are broadly popular with Americans. 
“3. We have individuals with a lot of money. If deployed properly this can have huge influence in the current campaign finance environment.”

This week, Zuckerberg op-edizes in the Washington Post:
Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg: Immigration and the knowledge economy

By Mark Zuckerberg, Published: April 10 
Mark Zuckerberg is founder and chief executive of Facebook and co-founder of Fwd.us. 
Earlier this year I started teaching a class on entrepreneurship at an after-school program in my community. The middle-school students put together business plans, made their products and even got an opportunity to sell them. 
One day I asked my students what they thought about going to college. One of my top aspiring entrepreneurs told me he wasn’t sure that he’d be able to go to college because he’s undocumented. His family is from Mexico, and they moved here when he was a baby. Many students in my community are in the same situation; they moved to the United States so early in their lives that they have no memories of living anywhere else. 
These students are smart and hardworking, and they should be part of our future. 
This is, after all, the American story. My great-grandparents came through Ellis Island. My grandfathers were a mailman and a police officer. My parents are doctors. I started a company. None of this could have happened without a welcoming immigration policy, a great education system and the world’s leading scientific community that created the Internet. 
Today’s students should have the same opportunities — but our current system blocks them. 
We have a strange immigration policy for a nation of immigrants. And it’s a policy unfit for today’s world. 
The economy of the last century was primarily based on natural resources, industrial machines and manual labor. Many of these resources were zero-sum and controlled by companies. If someone else had an oil field, then you did not. 
There were only so many oil fields, and only so much wealth could be created from them. 
Today’s economy is very different. It is based primarily on knowledge and ideas — resources that are renewable and available to everyone. Unlike oil fields, someone else knowing something doesn’t prevent you from knowing it, too.

It's not like the bad old days when some robber baron would get a monopoly and squeeze his workers. Thus, today, not just Facebook but also MySpace, Friendster, and Google + are all flourishing. What's good for Mark Zuckerberg is good for all Americans.
In fact, the more people who know something, the better educated and trained we all are, the more productive we become, and the better off everyone in our nation can be.
This can change everything. In a knowledge economy, the most important resources are the talented people we educate and attract to our country. A knowledge economy can scale further, create better jobs and provide a higher quality of living for everyone in our nation. ...
That’s why I am proud to announce FWD.us, a new organization founded by leaders of our nation’s technology community to focus on these issues and advocate a bipartisan policy agenda to build the knowledge economy the United States needs to ensure more jobs, innovation and investment. 
These leaders, who reflect the breadth and depth of Silicon Valley’s entrepreneurial culture, include Reid Hoffman, Eric Schmidt, Marissa Mayer, Drew Houston, Ron Conway, Chamath Palihapitiya, Joe Green, Jim Breyer, Matt Cohler, John Doerr, Paul Graham, Mary Meeker, Max Levchin, Aditya Agarwal and Ruchi Sanghvi. 

On the new fwd.us webpage entitled "Our Supporters," there are additional names of more tech heavyweights: Bryan Chesky, Chris Cox, Reed Hastings, Chad Hurley, Josh James, Max Levchin, Joe Lonsdale, Andrew Mason, Dave Morin, Elon Musk, Hadi Partovi, Alison Pincus, Mark Pincus, Keith Rabois, Hosain Rahman,  David Sacks, Eric Schmidt, Kevin Systrom, Padmasree Warrior, and Fred Wilson.

That's three dozen names.

Has anybody else noticed that not a single one of those surnames is Spanish?

Silicon Valley is so non-Hispanic that Zuckerberg couldn't even come up with some Conquistador-American to stick on his "Our Supporters" page.

Maybe he should make friends with Eduardo Saverin again?

How many people have noticed that there are virtually no Hispanic tech wizards in Silicon Valley?

The San Jose Mercury-News had to sue to extract the diversity data from big Silicon Valley firms. They found what merely eyeballing the endless business coverage of Silicon Valley ought to suggest: virtually no blacks or Hispanics make it big there.
Of the 5,907 top managers and officials in the Silicon Valley offices of the 10 large companies in 2005, 296 were black or Hispanic, a 20 percent decline from 2000, according to U.S. Department of Labor work-force data obtained by the Mercury News through a Freedom of Information request.

79 comments:

Robert Holmgren said...

Facebook could certainly open offices in Mexico and help improve their economy. But it's more fun to wreck ours instead.

Auntie Analogue said...


Mr.Zuckerberg proposes - he has the gall to propose - that we, the People, surrender our sovereignty to a transnational elite of his chosen smart set.

Well, Lah-Dee-Dah.

One feels unable to refrain from speculating if Mr. Zuckerberg will condescend to live among the hordes of the non-cognitive elite which his scheme would import?

The rot in our land is from the top down.

DoJ said...

Of independent interest is the lack of Asian-Americans, despite their overrepresentation in Silicon Valley.

Anonymous said...

Elon Musk... that's a shame. I really like what he's done with SpaceX and Tesla. It's inspirational that he has had a sense of noblesse oblige to use the money he made from Paypal to invest in space exploration technology, and also an electric car that would help to reduce reliance on fossil fuels (even if it is effectively running on coal in a lot of places instead of oil, it's still a good first step to not relying on carbon).

Agreeing to turn America into Mexico is not a great step to continue that sort of thing. There is a reason that none of his businesses were built in South Africa, for example, despite the fact that he was born there.

Anonymous said...

I wonder how much of Zuckerberg's feelings on this issue come from the fact that he has decided to mix his DNA with Chinese DNA for his procreation?

I guess one should remember that he's only 28 years old.

Anonymous said...

"Many of these resources were zero-sum and controlled by companies. If someone else had an oil field, then you did not. "

If goldman sachs has high-iq employees, microsoft does not.

"This is, after all, the American story. "

LOL

"mix his DNA with Chinese DNA"

chinese jews are new master class!

eah said...

Silicon Valley

How to comment? It's all so tiresome. Lived in the area for years; went to HS and college there. Beginning in the mid-1980s, worked for more than a few high tech companies. Finally left in 2000, and will never return. Does not look or feel like America anymore.

WSJ: Cupertino's Asian Population Surges

Population growth in the Bay Area slowed sharply over the past decade, according to 2010 census data released this month...The South Bay city best known as home of Apple Inc. saw a 64% surge in its Asian population over the decade to become a decisive majority of the city's roughly 58,000 residents. People in Cupertino who described their race as Asian rose to about 63% last year from about 44% in 2000, while the percentage of whites fell to about 29% from nearly 48%...And immigrants from India appear to be the fastest-growing group in recent years...Other Bay Area enclaves have gone through similar shifts. Fremont's Asian population also topped 50% for the first time.

Wikipedia: Mission San Jose High School in Fremont, CA

However, in recent years the performance of Mission's football teams has fallen. In 2002, the team was disbanded due to lack of interest,...

Imagine that: a large high school in the SFBA had to drop its football program (albeit temporarily) "due to lack of interest".

However: Sports at which Mission high-school typically excels at includes badminton...

But no amount of demographic change is ever enough. America must be completely obliterated.

Dave Pinsen said...

Norman Matloff, a UC-Davis computer science professor, has been calling b.s. on the tech industry's zeal for cheap labor for years. The other day, the reporters on Bloomberg West were talking about immigration as if the need for more immigrant labor was blindingly obvious to everyone.

I asked one of the anchors via Twitter why they don't invite Matloff to come on their show. Bloomberg West broadcasts out of San Francisco -- Matloff is Davis, he could drive right over. Haven't heard back.

BTW, re Fred Wilson: I disagree with him on immigration and most other political issues, but, to his credit, he welcomes a spirited debate on his blog, and sometimes (his recent post on gun control, for example) the highest rated comments are from readers who disagree with him. You should consider commenting there next time he blogs about immigration, Steve.

Anonymous said...

Mark Zuckerberg has some very odd views on basic economics.
Of course if 'someone else' owns an oilfield that means you don't own it and the profits of that oilfield flow to someone else. That's the whole bloody point, in a captalist society. The consumer buys the oil and offers something of himself (usually his labor) back in return. If that little exchange never happened nobody would go out and do any work and we'd all still be living as hunter/gatherers in caves.
Another point is that oilfields actually *create* wealth in the fact that a gallon of oil can heft, (if suitablly processed), a ton of bricks a planeful of nerds or a townshipful of sewage. It can aslo be fashioned into a legion of pornographic DVDs, never mind keeping your laptop running.
Compared to all that, how exactly does Mr. Zuckerberg's frivolous site actually create wealth (as his investors have found to their cost)? - I mean does looking at the vanity sites of a lot of overblown, pompous, self styled, micro-celebs actually scrub a single floor or wipe a single butt? I mean the untoucable class of Mexes that Mr. Zuckerberg is so anxious to import actually do all these things, no doubt, for Zuckerberg Jnr. - or that Alzheimer afflicted Zuckerberg elders, but then again without modern (oil) based detergents, life would have been *that* much more complicated.

Anonymous said...

- and what do Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk (gosh, just how apt is his surname in this stink-up), have in common?
- Just what a myth about Ellis Island and subsequent events form the dominant narrative.

Anonymous said...

OT:

Translate the following links from German and be amazed. It turns out that a Red Bull financed convicted doping doctor from East Germany has an American client. This client has a boyfriend who have lifted his game recently. In January he visited her in the town where the doping doctor is based :)

http://www.fr-online.de/sport/ratschlaege-vom-offiziellen-mitarbeiter,1472784,3401126.html

http://www.skionline.ch/index.php?section=news&cmd=details&newsid=16115

http://www.kleinezeitung.at/sport/schi/schialpin/2264595/uebergewicht-bei-vonn-oesv-entschuldigt-sich.story

http://sport.oe24.at/wintersport/Lindsey-Vonn-steigt-aus-Weltcup-aus/88543051

http://derstandard.at/1350258350123/Vonn-faehrt-Herren-Abfahrt-nur-mit-Garantie-auf-Start-bei-Damen

http://www.salzburg.com/nachrichten/salzburg/sport/sn/artikel/salzburg-geruechte-um-lindsey-vonn-und-tiger-woods-43444/

elvisd said...

I guess one should remember that he's only 28 years old.
Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot how the cut-off age for being a "youth" seems to get higher. Kind of like all those "youths" that the newspapers chronicle displaying a lack of responsibility and foresight as they ransack stores. Must be a change to media style handbooks.

Suburban_elk said...

He calls this place a "nation of immigrants".

Hanging at the coffee shop or riding the bus, and half the people are staring at their devices, not interested in the surroundings and other people, because half the other people are not interested in their surrounding or other people.

The "knowledge economy" - knowledge of what.

Suburban_elk said...

It is no surprise that Zuckerberg is advocating for a transnational class, who apparently know something out of the ordinary.

His contribution was a networking app that people are tiring of, he has a wifey girlfriend of dubious looks, and he writes a mediocre column with some tired phrases.

He has made a significant contribution to the borg and been well paid. But enough of him.

Knowledge has always been a premium; what is new is that Labor is less valued because this is not a country that values its people, it is an economy that does not. Sell it as a good thing with an exciting phrase, the Knowledge Economy, but the economy is an inadequate substitute for living space.

Claudia Z said...

Maybe Zuckerberg just believes that this is 'right' thing to do, morally speaking. Unless of course you don't believe such pure motives are possible. It's not all about the money is it?

Am I naive, or are you too cynical?

Anonymous said...

Awesome, let's legalize a cohort of ten million that is largely poor, welfare dependent, and uneducated so that Zuckerberg and his buddies can have a more reliable source of cheap Indian engineers for their companies and cheap Latin American landscapers and nannies for their gated communities.

Those of us outside the gates can enjoy the Vibrancy that the 9,900,000 others bring whenever a community is flooded by poor Mexicans.

Anonymous said...

Well, well, well.

What do we have here?

Whites, and Asians (particularly Japanese, followed by Chinese or certain Indians) dominate Silicon Valley and, gosh, the entire STEM industry now that I think of it.

Hmmmmmm....

Anonymous said...

Here is some more immigration nonsense.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/12/immigration_and_wages_the_case_of_software_engineers.html

Anonymous said...

And so many men in STEM too.

Hmmmmmmm...

Anonymous said...

The Mexicans are not only invisible in tech, where are they in the media? The movies?
Nowhere to be found.

And only in obvious places like California do they have an impact on politics.

But this isn't about them. Silicon Valley uses foreign labor to push down the wages of American engineers and/or give them an implicit threat that their job can be replaced by Indian immigrants who come to the U.S., learn the job on the go(often from the people they will be replacing) then do it, and finally come home.

These H1-B visas, that Bill Gates fought so hard for, are not for skilled immigrants who stay and contribute. It's a way to massively import a bunch of cheap labor - and none of it from Mexico! - to help the bottom line and give out rewards to the big shareholders on Wall St.

If you can pay 1/5th of the salary, even if the job gets done in a little sloppier way, what's to lose for you if you're loaded? And you can threaten the imports too: just as easily that I replaced that American engineer, I can replace you too with another Indian looking for scraps.

"Of independent interest is the lack of Asian-Americans, despite their overrepresentation in Silicon Valley."

Blame the Asian ghettoes in university. Look at the leadership of Google. Plenty of Indians. Not a single Asian. It's the same on Wall St.

Indians integrate. Asians gather in large groups (the infamous 'Asian horde') during university/college and increasingly after that. They are often starting up their businesses but increasinly rarely with a non-Asian. And in companies, they tend to only hang out with their own group, self-segregating.

Indians don't do that, hence they climb much higher.

Anonymous said...

(even if it is effectively running on coal in a lot of places instead of oil, it's still a good first step to not relying on carbon)

Let me see. Coal contains lots of carbon. Yup, good first step. Power losses in electricity means more carbon burned. Yup, good second step. Heavier vehicles means more carbon used in their production. Yup, good third step. More exotic materials used (lots of those batteries.) Yup, more polution.

I am convinced.

Anonymous said...

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/sen-malcolm-smith-100g-campaign-cash-trips-meals-travel-article-1.1267354

Another corrupt black politician taken down.

Steiner said...

Let's try this from the credit side of the ledger for a change. Of the fifteen tech leaders named by Zuckerberg, six (Hoffman, Schmidt, Mayer, Breyer, Cohler and Doerr) are German-American to judge by their surnames. Then there's the man himself, who looks and sounds like he is of impeccably German- or Austrian- Jewish descent.

Instead of emphasizing the poor showing of blacks and "Hispanics" in tech, let's talk up the Germanic side, which has the advantage of long-standing and extremely successful integration into American society. Who knows, maybe the WASPs will join in, and then there will be no stopping the Anglo-Germanic tide of opinion regarding the National Question! Stranger things have happened.

Lionel said...

Well, they do have the power. They proved it with gay marriage: the people with the most to lose from redefining marriage, straight women, are the strongest supporters of gay marriage. How did they do that?

So, they'll probably be able to get middle income Americans supporting amnesty that will cost trillions of tax dollars in welfare/medicaid/disability for the newly legalized.

Anonymous said...

One of my top aspiring entrepreneurs told me he wasn’t sure that he’d be able to go to college because he’s undocumented. His family is from Mexico, and they moved here when he was a baby. Many students in my community are in the same situation; they moved to the United States so early in their lives that they have no memories of living anywhere else.



He's lying through his teeth.

The best tip to give any aspiring entrepreneur is to be Jewish - lots of doors open to you that way.

Anonymous said...

http://blogs.laweekly.com/arts/2013/04/william_friedkin_exorcist.php

Anonymous said...

I wonder how much of Zuckerberg's feelings on this issue come from the fact that he has decided to mix his DNA with Chinese DNA for his procreation?

Where does the not-jewish-at-all-no-siree Rupert Murdoch stand on the border issue - with his new Chinese wife?

Chicago said...

Policy formulation via sob story is what we seem to be getting. Perhaps they'll come up with a version of the "Crying Indian" commercial to push the agenda along. Children evoke sympathy so they're likely to put them in the front row. We can probably expect to see some "Crying Illegal" commercials on television soon.

stephen said...

this is all about the fight for more H-1 visas. Canada just loosened the rules and start ups are threatening to move there because they can bring in as many Russians as they want...

Anonymous said...

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12866

Anonymous said...

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12864

Anonymous said...

My family used to drive up from LA to Silicon Valley to spend Christmas with relatives there during the late 70s - early 80s. Even back then when I was just a kid it struck me how white that area is.

anony-mouse said...

Maybe he's protecting his company from discrimination lawsuits from Hispanics-by showing how much he wants more Hispanics.

Anonymous said...

It's all just a way to say we're smart, we played our cards right and you suck.

BTW I was building a report spec for our programmers recently, idly thinking that if I brushed up on VB I could program it, too. Then I was reminded that our coders in Vietnam do that part.

Anonymous said...

I don't think Zuckerberg is in it for the cheap labor.

He's looking for SWPL sainthood, like Bill Gates.

JKB said...

So if knowledge is the key and can be equally owned by all without diminishing others, why aren't they big on MOOCs and breaking down the education cartel?

They have the tools and the talent to push knowledge to not only illegals but those who remain in their home countries.

So why push immigration rather than pushing to access to knowledge outside the confines of the country and a way to validate your actual knowledge other than attendance at a college, famous or otherwise?

Oh, one thing that would aid that enterprise, a good grasp of the English language and a willingness to embrace old white guy traditions that have historically transformed the world.

Now how many assimilated individuals of Hispanic origin might we discover if one was to get past Hispanic sounding names or features?

Careerist said...

Funny, I've been doing a similar bit of volunteering as Reb Zuckerberg.

One day I asked my students what they thought about going to college. One of my top aspiring engineers told me he wasn’t sure that it would be worth it for him to go to college. His family are working-class, white Americans.. He thinks that he will have to compete with floods of H1-B hires with falsified resumes to get a decent job. And even if he is lucky enough to score a job, he'll have to compete for one of the few management positions in order to ensure his career in science/technology isn't over at 40 when he's considered "too old". There are a lot of students in the same position.

They are smart and hardworking Americans. They should be part of our country's future...but I guess I need to check my "border privilege".

I asked him what he plans to do instead of pursuing a career in STEM and he told me he's thinking of using his brain to sit around, play vidya games, and post on bodybuilding/Allison Brie fan forums.

Anonymous said...

Republicans ought to pay Hispanics to extort silicon valley companies for not hiring enough hispanic workers. They could hire Jesse Jackson for lessons on the finer points of extorting money from big corporations.

Whitehall said...

I do wish that Mr. Sailer would truncate and summarize his long block quotes.

I enjoy Sailor's writing but his source material is so much PC pablum it is impossible to read.

Also, Muck's Tesla adventure was just rent-seeking as any reasonable technical analysis of the capabilities and market of battery-operated cars would have shown him.

Edison lost his shirt trying to design an electric car. Things haven't changed much since then.

Mr. Anon said...

"Today’s economy is very different. It is based primarily on knowledge and ideas"

Which is why it is failing. Economies need to be based on things. Actually, it isn't really based on "knowledge and ideas" anyway - it's based on entertainment and credit.

I see that Zuckerberg managed to slip in that "nation of immigrants" bullshit. I consider it to be a nation of anglo-saxon traditions.

FWD.us claims that they represent a group of people who are popular with the American people. Perhaps they won't be so popular if they persist with their claims that all your immigration policy are belong to us. Still, it could prove useful to us. The tech billionaires are a target that one is at least allowed to question, unlike certain other groups. Take every opportunity to remind people that these shameless oligarchs are, for the most part, not technical innovators - rather they are purveyors of video-games and other time-wasters, driving distractions, and a domestic intelligence gathering infrastructure. And they mean to undermine your country for their benefit.

While reading this post, I happened to be listening to King Crimson's "Epitaph", which proved to be most fitting:

"Knowledge is a deadly friend,
When no one sets the rules,
The fate of all mankind, I see,
Is in the hands of fools."

Anonymous said...

Zuckerberg is the best argument for competition. Too bad a fb substitute isn't ready to go. I'd enjoy watching the tens of millions who could be persuaded by words offered on fb itself abandon the sociopathic little prick.

Anonymous said...

Unlike.

What's ironic is facebook has strict guidelines in how you can 'friend' people. So, it penalizes you for trying to trying to 'friend' people, but it's for letting real strangers from all over the world come here in waves.

DPG said...

Why do we need immigration in a "knowledge economy"? Is there something about the Mexican border that prevents people from knowing things? I'm pretty sure companies have been outsourcing low-level tech jobs to India for years.

Anonymous said...

Indians Integrate?!?!?!

Been the Deloitte and Touche recently? The messageboards where the American workers were complaining were all taken down.

Indians get into managerial positions and then PURGE all the whites in the group and hire only Indians.

HerewardMW said...

Billionaires for Cheap Poolboys!

Matthew said...

What fraction of Facebook employees are Hispanic? What fraction of, oh, the top 50% of Facebook employees are Hispanic?

Zuck should take the lead on this one. California is maybe 4% Jewish, tops, and 38% Hispanic, and they aren't all undocumented. Most are eligible to be legally employed by Facebook. I'll bet $1,000 that Facebook has more Jewish than Hispanic employees,a nd I'd bet a year's salary that it has more Jewish employees than Hispanic employees in the top half of its pay scale.

Here's my challenge to Zuck: more Hispanics than Jews in your boardroom. More Hispanics than Jews among your executive team. More Hispanics than Jews among the top half of your employees. You can do it, Zuck. After all, these people are America's bright future. You certainly wouldn't want to deny yourself access to all their talent.

Matthew said...

Nothing about Mark Zuckerberg's business practices or his past suggests he's the sort of person you'd want to take life-or-death advice from on the future of your country.

Anonymous said...

"Elon Musk... that's a shame."

The Wikipedia quotes Musk, a South African, on the topic of serving his country:

"I don't have an issue with serving in the military per se, but serving in the South African army suppressing black people just didn't seem like a really good way to spend time"

So I'm not surprised.

Cail Corishev said...

Is there something about the Mexican border that prevents people from knowing things?

I keep asking that with regard to Catholicism and the desire for some bishops to import supposed devout Catholic Mexicans to fill their pews. Aren't there Catholic bishops, priests, and churches in Mexico? Don't they want their parishioners?

Remember when the fear was that NAFTA would allow Mexican companies (or American companies operating in Mexico) to undercut our prices by making stuff cheaper down there and importing it? If only.

Anonymous said...

Yes, the person who said that Indians integrate more than East Asians was wrong. Indians are more likely than East Asians to only hire their own. I've seen this happen many times with my own eyes. I'm not just repeating things that I've read on this. Secondly, Indians are less likely than East Asians to intermarry with whites.

Anonymous said...

Remember when the fear was that NAFTA would allow Mexican companies (or American companies operating in Mexico) to undercut our prices by making stuff cheaper down there and importing it? If only.

NAFTA was bad because it required American companies to physically locate facilities in Mexico to take advantage of the cheaper labor. Why on Earth should American companies have to do that when they have perfectly good facilities in the USA? Why not bring the cheap labor to the existing facilities? Now that is truly free trade.

Misophile said...

Somebody wanna pull a Book of Numbers and count the Chosen?

Glaivester said...

In a previous post, someone suggested that we should fight amnesty by donating to the campaigns of sympathetic Congressmen and Senators.

I have some more specific suggestions on my blog about to whom to give, how to give, and how to send a message as to why you support them.

Remember, this is the best way to lobby legislators who are outside of your state/district, and to show that your support actually means something.

Anonymous said...

"We are a nation of immigrants"..

This of course is just cultural marxism to undermine the historic American nation (and I would add Canada and Australia to that list too). People who have lived here for numerous generations are not "immigrants" and their 17th, 18th, or even 19th century ancestors were SETTLERS, not "immigrants". To even begin to compare their circumstances and experiences to an immigrant arriving today in an air-condiitoned plane and landing in a modern airport is just ludicrous. It is not even an oranges and apples comparison.

Anonymous said...

America can double-plus good itself by importing tens of millions of India's street & alley dwellers.
Not only by getting the warm fuzzies over helping the exceedingly disadvantaged, but who knows? Giving them all a free college education might develop some developers, too! We need to fill all those vacant homes somehow. C'mon America! The entire world is waiting!

Anonymous said...

"I wonder how much his views are dependent on the fact he has chosen Chinese DNA to procreate with".

Probably not nearly as important as the fact he is a Jew.

Anonymous said...

"Let me see. Coal contains lots of carbon. Yup, good first step."

If you expect one person to simultaneously make the grid carbon independent at the same time as building an electric car to help make viable a transport solution that is oil independent, I think your expectations are too high.

An electric car can just as easily run on electricity harvested from roof solar panels as from the grid. And even using coal, less CO2 is produced than with the equivalent gasoline powered car.

"Power losses in electricity means more carbon burned. Yup, good second step."

See above. And also consider that getting gasoline into a car, starting from crude oil over in Saudi Arabia has some costs associated with it too.

"Heavier vehicles means more carbon used in their production. Yup, good third step."

Possibly, though over the lifetime I would expect that the carbon from fuel consumed would dominate pollution produced.

"More exotic materials used (lots of those batteries.) Yup, more polution."

They are also recycled, because they are expensive and of a size that makes it economical to recycle them. I don't see this as a big issue.

Anonymous said...

"Yes, the person who said that Indians integrate more than East Asians was wrong."

say, wasn't that an Indian that zuckerberg stole the facebook idea from?

Anonymous said...

Indians don't do that, hence they climb much higher.

Maybe its a caste related thing? Other 'Indians' outside of one's family or caste arent people you are going to give a leg up to?

And once they reach some authority they unleash the forces of nepotism.

Anonymous said...

"Yes, the person who said that Indians integrate more than East Asians was wrong. Indians are more likely than East Asians to only hire their own. I've seen this happen many times with my own eyes. I'm not just repeating things that I've read on this. Secondly, Indians are less likely than East Asians to intermarry with whites."

That's in large part because Indians are 85% foreign born, which are much less likely to intermarry and intermingle. But Im talking 2nd generation Indian or people who have been here since their early teens or before that.

Those kinds of Indians do get promoted a lot more to the highest positions and do in turn hire whites. A good example from the tech world is Anandtech.com. Indian founder, almost entirely white in the staff. Can anyone say that the tech industry lacks Indians?

But sure, if you're an Indian immigrant who comes here and you weren't born here, your entire social circle is another bunch of foreign-born Indians then of course you'll hire mostly people from your own social circle. Just like Mark Zuckerberg did and hire tons of white people. With Sandberg leaving, there are not many Jews in the highest echelons at Facebook. And the only reason why she was hired was because his previous COO, a WASP, got too ambitious and wanted the top job. Had he been more loyal, he'd still be in his job.

As for intermarriage, almost 40% of U.S.-born Indian women intermarry and just about all of them to whites, this according to the 2010 census. But again, note that 85% of Indian-Americans are NOT U.S. born, so the demographic I'm talking about is much younger than the general Indian population.

Anonymous said...

wasn't that an Indian that zuckerberg stole the facebook idea from?

How likely is it, given the history of IT that an Indian originated the concept?

The apparent originators of the concept worked with an Indian gut but they and he have been largely airbrushed out of od=fficial Facebook history.

Whiskey said...

Steve -- this is all about Tech wanting a flood of H1-Bs without any modest limits as of now. Zuckerberg wants to import half of India and China's coders to work at those wages and prevent any other tech threats by well paid junior staffers who can figure out what he's doing wrong and fix it ... with their own company. That's why the other tech barons are onboard as well.

Stifle competition, get servile labor for life. What's not to like?

Whiskey said...

Steve, the FT had this weekend an article about Israel's richest man, a billionaire, moving to London. Like most of the super-rich he lives in a total bubble of people kissing his behind. Meanwhile he's hated in Israel and the sale of his potash concession to a foreign firm was vetoed by the government. Increasingly, populists in Israel are trying to rein in the Oligarchs there who are as much a problem as they are here.

Anon -- Murdoch is indeed not Jewish. And like most Oligarchs world-wide hates their own people and feels more fellowship with their increasingly inter-related Oligarchs and elites in other nations.

Look at Zuckerberg. How Jewish is he? Answer: none at all or he wouldn't have married a Chinese woman. His kids will be Chinese not Jewish. And Jewish out-marriage is exceedingly common, save in Israel. Traditional Americans like and identify with working/middle class Israelis because they are nationalist Whites who fight back. And they like the fighting back.

The future of Jews outside Israel is total absorption into the larger population ala Blacks in Mexico after Slavery was abolished. Intermarriage and lack of ethnocentric feeling in the most personal decisions: who you have kids with -- is no different from the obliterating "no standards" of the elite AND THE UPPER CLASS (the media, the universities, K-12, government day to day employees, etc.)

Went to the DMV the other day, Laguna Hills location. Not a single White guy working there. Not one.

Anonymous said...

"Indians are more likely than East Asians to only hire their own."

This is what I've seen in silicon valley.

The interesting thing is how many of the Indians hired come direct from India. No real need now for a stay at a US university.

Sometimes Indian managers put it this way, "It's really hard to hire people here, this company has got a real bad reputation, I don't know what to do." "Well, I guess you'll just have to figure out where you can find someone to hire, sounds like there's not much choice."

Anonymous said...

In an industry full of douchebags, Zuckerberg and Saverin might very well be the biggest douchebags of all. People may use "his" product, but why the hell would anyone listen to what Zuckerberg has to say?

Rather than listen to Zuckerberg on immigration, Americans should pay attention to what his former partner, Eduardo Saverin, actually did. He came here as a youth with his family from South America, allegedly because he was found on a target list of potential kidnapees for ransom (another vibrant Latin American tradition we should take note of). Saverin became a naturalized US citizen of his own free will, made billions off of Facebook, then hightailed it out of the country in order to avoid paying taxes on his wealth.

First generation immigrants and their children very often have no loyalties to the United States. They come here because it's a business deal. Unlike early American settlers, they take no risk in coming here - their incomes are allmost guaranteed to increase, in the Information Age they don't really leave anyone behind, and if they fail they have oodles of welfare programs to take advantage of.

Matthew said...

Steve, your next post should be on this: how does the right develop a language to advocate securing our borders that will win people over? What arguments can we use that sound compassionate, just, and convincing to someone who isn't already on our side?

Anonymous said...

"Probably not nearly as important as the fact he is a Jew."

Maybe not, but I have certainly noticed that some of the biggest immigration supporters, especially those in media, government and bureaucratic positions of power who are boosting this have foreign, usually Asian wives. Once people have mixed race children, they suddenly have a horse in the race. Consider that a white couple with children can probably live and do ok either way in a country with PC or mass deportations. Someone with mixed race kids will find the latter situation untenable.

As far as Jewish attitudes on immigration, you are right, as far as back in 2012, 57% are in favor of immigration, 32% are against. It's pretty sad. What's worse is that this is more popular among younger Jews.

http://publicreligion.org/research/2012/04/jewish-values-in-2012/

You have to download the report to see that.

Anonymous said...

"he future of Jews outside Israel is total absorption into the larger population ala Blacks in Mexico after Slavery was abolished."

Maybe the future of the reform or non-denom or whatever they call themselves. However, the orthodox and their exponential breeding habits should make a new batch of Jews in no time, I would think. If there is one thing that history tells us, it's that there will still be Jews.

Anonymous said...

"Increasingly, populists in Israel are trying to rein in the Oligarchs there who are as much a problem as they are here."

oi vey, the russian mafia running israel! and don't forget its link to harvard-wasp mafia!

Anonymous said...

Once people have mixed race children, they suddenly have a horse in the race.

I disagree. Since my kids, who are mixed race and have an Asian mother, I've grown to despise our immigration policy even more.

Anonymous said...

Yet again, any post with a whiff of militancy towards those wrecking our country gets snuffed by komment kontrol, but whiskey is free to deflect deflect deflect all he wants.

countenance said...

I am of the opinion that SV firms hid their diversity data not to cover up how few blacks and Hispanics there are, but to cover up how many Asians there are.

Zuckerberg writes:

In fact, the more people who know something, the better educated and trained we all are, the more productive we become, and the better off everyone in our nation can be.

I am not one penny richer nor one iota more productive for knowing about three-quarters of the things I know. That which I do know which I thought would make me productive and well off (financial accounting) has been taken from me with legal immigration and H-xB.

Anonymous said...

Hey, countenance, look on the bright side: At least our profession is smart enough to artificially create new need for its services. The libertarians in the tech industry were too naive and trusting to protect themselves in any way.

Anonymous said...

"I disagree. Since my kids, who are mixed race and have an Asian mother, I've grown to despise our immigration policy even more."

I guess there is the case of the Derb and now yourself, but from where I sit the majority in your position take on roles as the new Commissars of PC, especially hate speech enforcers and such.

Svigor said...

Yes, the person who said that Indians integrate more than East Asians was wrong. Indians are more likely than East Asians to only hire their own. I've seen this happen many times with my own eyes. I'm not just repeating things that I've read on this. Secondly, Indians are less likely than East Asians to intermarry with whites.

This seems entirely consistent with what I've seen from east Asians and south Asians. South Asians seem much more arrogant, extroverted, aggressive, and ethnocentric than east Asians.

Anon -- Murdoch is indeed not Jewish.

He's an honorary member of the tribe, like you (if you really weren't born Jewish, which I tend to doubt). Like that dude in Snatch. Hmmm, now what possible advantage could a media baron hope to gain...

Look at Zuckerberg. How Jewish is he? Answer: none at all or he wouldn't have married a Chinese woman. His kids will be Chinese not Jewish. And Jewish out-marriage is exceedingly common, save in Israel. Traditional Americans like and identify with working/middle class Israelis because they are nationalist Whites who fight back. And they like the fighting back.

You keep saying Jews outmarry at high rates, but then you say Jews who outmarry aren't Jewish at all. Which is it? Can't be both.

But essentially, it's a lie, anyway. First of all, nobody has stats for REAL Jewish "outmarriage," i.e., Jews marrying outside their race. Those numbers are apparently a state secret. Which they wouldn't be if they weren't an embarrassment to Jewry, I think.

Second, if you compare the actual rate of "outmarriage" for Jews to those of whites descended from western or central Europe, it's lower than for other whites, not higher. I.e., Jews marry Jews more often than Italians marry Italians, Irish marry Irish, etc. So like I said, it's essentially a lie.

Maybe the future of the reform or non-denom or whatever they call themselves. However, the orthodox and their exponential breeding habits should make a new batch of Jews in no time, I would think. If there is one thing that history tells us, it's that there will still be Jews.

Nope. Trust Whiskey the "Scots-Irish" guru of Jewish blamelessness. Not the lying eyes of 3,000 years of history.

Anonymous said...

One of the bigger arguments against more immigration to me is the attitude of people like Zuckerberg, who seem to consider themselves immigrants first and Americans second (or even further down the list). I don't think we're better off overall because such opportunistic people are here.

rob said...

Sailer,

Why does Whiskey get to shit on any and every thread?

Dave Pinsen said...

"I wonder how much of Zuckerberg's feelings on this issue come from the fact that he has decided to mix his DNA with Chinese DNA for his procreation?"

It's probably irrelevant. Norman Matloff, the UC-Davis computer science professor I mentioned above, who opposes the importation of cheap labor, happens to be married to a Chinese woman (and is fluent in Mandarin).

Anonymous said...

Henceforth to be known as the NAABP, or National Association for the Advancement of Billionaire People.