July 2, 2013

Tom Wolfe explains the Zimmerman case

One of my relatively few specific successes in the field of Awareness Raising over the last decade has been how much more cognizant a small fraction of the thinking public has become that Tom Wolfe's 1987 bestseller The Bonfire of the Vanities foreshadows many of the racial brouhahas that have consumed the press in the 26 years since. Judge Richard A. Posner's mid-1990s reassessment of Bonfire praised Wolfe's "prophetic insight (the sort of thing we attribute to Kafka)." Wolfe's phrase "Great White Defendant" is now up to 95,600 pages on Google.

With the current Bonfire-style trial of George Zimmerman in the Trayvon Martin shooting turning into an unsurprising train wreck, it's worth giving you excerpts of a key section from Bonfire (pp. 105-108) that provides the template for understanding much of what you see on the nightly news over the decades:

The language is NSFW.

Three Bronx assistant District Attorneys -- Ray Andriutti, Jimmy Caughey, and Larry Kramer (the indirect narrator) -- discuss elected head D.A. Abe Weiss's current obsession with the Moore case, in which an unemployed corporate executive in the nice Riverdale suburb of the Bronx shot his mother-in-law.
An assistant D.A. in Major Offenses has started calling Abe Weiss "Captain Ahab," and now they all did. Weiss was notorious in his obsession for publicity, even among a breed, the district attorney, that was publicity-mad by nature. ...
[Kramer:] "Why was Weiss interested?" 
[Caughey:] "Well, the guy's white, he's got some money, he lives in a big house in Riverdale. It looks at first like maybe he's gonna fake an accidental shooting." 
"Is that possible?" 
"Naw. Fucking guy's one a my boys. He's your basic Irish who made good, but he's still a Harp. He's drowning in remorse. You'd think he shot his own mother, he feels so fucking guilty. Right now he'd confess to anything. Bernie could sit him in front of the video camera and clean up every homicide in the Bronx for the past five years. Naw, it's a piece a shit, but it looked good at first."
Kramer and Andriutti contemplated this piece a shit without needing any amplification. Every assistant D.A. in the Bronx, from the youngest Italian just out of St. John's Law School to the oldest Irish bureau chief, who would be somebody like Bernie Fitzgibbon, who was forty-two, shared Captain Ahab's mania for the Great White Defendant. For a start, it was not pleasant to go through life telling yourself, "What I do for a living is, I pack blacks and Latins off to jail." Kramer had been raised as a liberal. In Jewish families like his, liberalism came with the Similac and the Mott's apple juice and the Instamatic and Daddy's grins in the evening. And even the Italians, like Ray Andriutti, and the Irish, like Jimmy Caughey, who were not exactly burdened with liberalism by their parents, couldn't help but be affected by the mental atmosphere of the law schools, where, for one thing, there were so many Jewish faculty members. By the time you finished law school in the New York area, it was, well ... impolite! ... on the ordinary social level ... to go around making jokes about the yoms. It wasn't that it was morally wrong ... It was that it was in bad taste. So it made the boys uneasy, this eternal prosecution of the blacks and Latins.
Not that they weren't guilty. One thing Kramer had learned within two weeks as an assistant D.A. in the Bronx was that 95 percent of the defendants who got as far as the indictment stage, perhaps 98 percent, were truly guilty. The caseload was so overwhelming, you didn't waste time trying to bring the marginal cases forward, unless the press was on your back. They hauled in guilt by the ton, the blue-and-orange vans out there on Walton Avenue. But the poor bastards behind the wire mesh barely deserved the term criminal if by criminal you had in mind the romantic notion of someone who has a goal and seeks to achieve it through some desperate way outside the law. No, they were simple-minded incompetents, most of them, and they did unbelievably stupid, vile things. 
Kramer looked at Andriutti and Caughey, sitting there with their mighty thighs akimbo. He felt superior to them. He was a graduate of the Columbia Law School, and they were both graduates of St. John's, widely known as the law school for the also-rans of college academic competition. And he was Jewish. Very early in life he had picked up the knowledge that the Italians and the Irish were animals. The Italians were pigs, and the Irish were mules or goats. He couldn't remember if his parents had actually used any such terms or not, but they got the idea across very clearly. To his parents, New York City -- New York? hell, the whole U.S., the whole world! -- was a drama called The Jews Confront the Goyim, and the goyim were animals. And so what was he doing here with these animals? A Jew in the Homicide Bureau was a rare thing. The Homicide Bureau was the elite corps of the District Attorney's Office, the D.A.'s Marines, because homicide was the most serious of all crimes. An assistant D.A. in Homicide had to be able to go out on the street to the crime scenes at all hours, night and day, and be a real commando and rub shoulders with the police and know how to confront defendants and witnesses and intimidate them when the time came, and these were likely to be the lowest, grimmest, scurviest defendants and witnesses in the history of criminal justice. For fifty years, at least, maybe longer, Homicide had been an Irish enclave, although recently the Italians had made their way into it. The Irish had given Homicide their stamp. The Irish were stone courageous. Even when it was insane not to, they never stepped back. Andriutti had been right, or half right. Kramer didn't want to be Italian, but he did want to be Irish, and so did Ray Andriutti, the dumb fuck. Yes, they were animals! The goyim were animals, and Kramer was proud to be among the animals, in the Homicide Bureau. ....
Here they were ... and here he was, and where was he going? What were these cases he was handling? Pieces of shit! Garbage collection ... Arthur Rivera. Arthur Rivera and another drug dealer get into an argument over an order of pizza at a social club and pull knives, and Arthur says, "Let's put the weapons down and fight man to man." And they do, whereupon Arthur pulls out a second knife and stabs the other fellow in the chest and kills him ... Jimmy Dollard. Jimmy Dollard and his closest pal, Otis Blakemore, and three other black guys are drinking and taking cocaine and playing a game called the dozens, in which the idea is to see how outrageously you can insult the other fellow, and Blakemore is doing an inspired number on Jimmy, and Jimmy pulls out a revolver and shoots him through the heart and then collapse on the table, sobbing and saying, "My man! My man Stan! I shot my man Stan!" ... And the case of Herbert 92X --
... The press couldn't even see these cases. It was just poor people killing poor people. To prosecute such cases was to be part of the garbage collection service, necessary and honorable, plodding and anonymous. 
Captain Ahab wasn't so ridiculous, after all. Press coverage! Ray and Jimmy could laugh all they wanted, but Weiss had made sure the entire city knew his name. Weiss had an election coming up, and the Bronx was 70 percent black and Latin, and he was going to make sure the name Abe Weiss was pumped out to them on every channel that existed. He might not do much else, but he was going to do that. 

77 comments:

Anonymous said...

Awesome and chilling for its decades-ahead of-its time-insight. Still think PoS would aptly define it.

On a lighter note (for a little levity) Today's US Women's Soccer Forward Alex Morgan's Birthday. She's from inland empire and graduated from Berkeley in 3yrs (the pretty one who looks like Princess Kate's identical twin) and the next Mia Hamm.

Happy Birthday, Alex! PoC = Plenty of Class.

Shouting Thomas said...

To his parents, New York City -- New York? hell, the whole U.S., the whole world! -- was a drama called The Jews Confront the Goyim, and the goyim were animals.

This is a fairly good explanation for the genesis of feminism in NYC.

A Working Class American said...

well, I am not sure how much that excerpt addresses or is relevant to the zimmerman trial, but I do agree that the book is relevant to this trial.

As a former lawyer, and considering that 5 of the 6 jurors are white, I seriously doubt a conviction. And yet almost the entire media is pretending that this is a trial that could possibly end in a guilty verdict. Maybe some of that pretense is based on maintaining reader/viewer interest in the trial. But undoubtedly some of the facade is based on journalists not wanting to appear racist. And also the media is afraid of losing face with the public, many of whom no doubt remember the media feeding frenzy of last year.

The most the media can realistically hope for is a hung jury.

DR said...

Nice casual/negligent anti-semitism: subtly, but deniably, insinuating that Zimmerman's prosecution is stemming from Jewish guilt or hostility to gentiles.

In reality the main prosecutors are Angela Corey (whose parents are Syrian Arab Christians), Bernie de la Rionda (Cuban) and John Guy (no heritage information available, but he's tall blonde and Nordic looking).

Don West, the lead defense attorney is by far the most plausibly Jewish of any of the attorneys.

Anonymous said...

OK, a hundred references later, you've finally made the sale.

I'm ordering Bonfire of the Vanities from Amazon right now.

Anonymous said...

I was familiar with Tom Wolfe's style, but I didn't know he was this candid about, um, explicating certain ethnic attitudes.

Anonymous said...

Nice casual/negligent anti-semitism: subtly, but deniably, insinuating that Zimmerman's prosecution is stemming from Jewish guilt or hostility to gentiles.

In reality the main prosecutors are Angela Corey (whose parents are Syrian Arab Christians), Bernie de la Rionda (Cuban) and John Guy (no heritage information available, but he's tall blonde and Nordic looking).


It's true. A Syrian Arab Christian/Cuban/Nordic cabal runs the media as well. That's why we have wall to wall coverage in the media of this PaS.

Steve Sailer said...

"I was familiar with Tom Wolfe's style, but I didn't know he was this candid about, um, explicating certain ethnic attitudes."

I imagine he's carefully noted how his in-laws think.

Dave Pinsen said...

I'm glad you posted that excerpt. If I picked up my copy of the book and looked it up myself, I'd probably get sucked in again and read the whole book again for the 4th time.

Two suggestions for additional excerpts:

1) The Herbert 92X part you linked to before.

2) The scene where the mayor's aide briefs him on the Protestant minister he's about to meet with.

"Nice casual/negligent anti-semitism: subtly, but deniably, insinuating that Zimmerman's prosecution is stemming from Jewish guilt or hostility to gentiles."

Wolfe knows Jews too well to be an anti-Semite. I think he's also married to one.

Anonymous said...

I imagine he's carefully noted how his in-laws think.

Right. I knew that he was married to a Jewish woman, but didn't think he'd be this forward about it. Most aren't. If anything, they tend to be a bit defensive.

Anonymous said...

Good stuff, but I hope Wolfe breaks his exclamation point key.

Anonymous said...

Right, because Jews have it oohhh sooo tough going in this country compared to living in middle east (excluding Israel) everything here is just soo tough. Goyim's are out to get them and throw them in the burner.

Aaron Gross said...

Um, the "prophetic insight" of Bonfire was all practically all anyone was talking about in the 1980s with the Tawana Brawley story. "Life imitates art" and all that. That was the big cliche, along with "prophetic insight."

A few years later some people even assumed the novel had been inspired by the Tawana Brawley case, when of course it was written before that.

Aaron Gross said...

Funniest comment on this whole thread: "Wolfe knows Jews too well to be an anti-Semite."

DR said...

"Wolfe knows Jews too well to be an anti-Semite. I think he's also married to one."

I'm not accusing Wolfe of being anti-semitic, I'm accusing Sailer of it. Wolfe's description in the book is wholly plausible and realistic in a literary sense. The description is certainly accurate for a good chunk of the New York Jewish lawyer population. There's nothing anti-semitic about merely observing the truth.

What smells funny to me is that in a novel that runs over 1000 pages that Sailer chooses the one excerpt that's about the Jewish sensibilities of the fictional prosecutor. The Zimmerman case has no Jewish prosecutor involved (or Irish or Italian for that matter).

If anything this excerpt has one of the least relevance to the Zimmerman case out of an entire tome which is almost completely relevant. Anyone could easily identify much more Zimmerman-relevant passages from Bonfire.

The only two conclusions is that either 1) Sailer is trying to deceptively, but deniably, push on his readers the notion that Zimmerman's prosecutors are Jewish when in fact they are not.

Or 2) Sailer himself failed to do the research, read a Wolfe excerpt that sounded cool and relevant, assuming in the back of his head that the prosecutors probably were like Bonfire's because so many other details match up.

Either way Steve doesn't come off looking good. Whereas Wolfe was illuminating the world for his readers (at least in the sense of writing realistic fiction), Sailer is deceiving his readers by implying plainly incorrect facts.

Anonymous said...

Funny how the movie was panned. IMDB is an interesting read. Bruce Willis apparently regrets it. Books can get away with far more than movies aimed at the little people. Political correctness is mainly for the great unwashed. No-one really expects the elites to hold onto such childish notions.

Steve Johnson said...

"The only two conclusions is that either 1) Sailer is trying to deceptively... push ... the notion that Zimmerman's prosecutors are Jewish when in fact they are not.

Or 2) Sailer himself failed to do the research..."

Or 3) That you're a paranoid loon (this is the generous interpretation - the unfriendly interpretation is that you're trying to get people to self-censor by making over-broad harmful accusations any time someone comes close talking about your ethnic group) and that Sailer excerpted the passage of the book that describes "the Great White Defendant"

... but excellent job confirming ethnic stereotypes by reacting in a paranoid and ethnocentric manner to a comment that pricked* up your ears simply because there were references to Jews in it.

* I'm now fully ready for you to accuse me of anti-semitism by using the word "pricked" - which is clearly** a dog whistle reference to the Merchant of Venice.

** It wasn't - you're still a paranoid loon.

Anonymous said...

"The Zimmerman case has no Jewish prosecutor involved (or Irish or Italian for that matter)."

You're missing the point. The whole Zimmerman thing was turned into an ANTI-WHITE sensation by Jewish-controlled media and Jewish-bought politicians. Surely you know that Obama is Jewish created and bought. So is Holder. What they they do and say about the affair?
And as the Wolfe excerpt says, even goy lawyers, prosecutors, and journalists are indoctrinated by JEWISH PROFESSORS. Thinkingly or unthinkingly, they end up doing the bidding of Jews. Look at that pathetic figure of a man called Charlie Rose.

So, never mind who the prosecutor is. Zimmerman was put on trial BECAUSE of all the media and political pressure, and don't tell me powerful Jews had no hand in it.

It's like most military officer fighting in the middle east are not Jews, but they are there because of America's AIPAC dominated policies. Your philosemitic canard is laughable.

Anonymous said...

Great White Defendant may be hard to find but Great White Puppets are all too common.

The sickening sight of Romney and Gingrich groveling before AIPAC.

Whiskey said...

You all are missing the point. Who holds power in the passage? The Hispanic and Black voters. That's who. Who push by their votes the desire for a Great White Defendant.

This is not a "Jewish thing" since the Italian and Irish investigators want the same thing -- press coverage and votes and positive publicity.

Black people (and Hispanics) really do run America. THEY not White elites really have the power.

Having just read some Mencius Moldbug, I DO tend to agree with him that you can see power clearly by who is allowed to do what. Not money, not great houses, but social power. Who is forced to grovel, and who stands tall and favored. In the Middle Ages, in even the 19th Century in England, it was not great merchants or bankers or even brave soldiers and knights who held power. It was the great lords, and above all the KING. Who made all others grovel, abase themselves, before him, and could do pretty much as he pleased. The Lords nearly as much so.

For Black people in general, there is only a slight functional difference between the deference shown them by society at large and that shown the King by his Lords and the Lords by great merchants in the Middle Ages. There are reasons for this -- mostly due to greater aggression and violence in a time when White violence is sharply curtailed -- along with machine politics and mass immigration, but that's the heart of it.

Why would anyone be surprised with a Black President we have another hunt for a Great White Defendant, even if the Whiteness has to be manufactured out of whole cloth? For the most part White people WANT to bow down to Black people, simply because Black people on average are FAR (orders of magnitude) more aggressive than Whites.

Whiskey said...

And there is nothing sickening about Romney and Gingrich going before AIPAC. Most White Americans don't think groveling before Muslims is a good idea, and the more Muslims attack us (and have since Nixon) the more we like anyone they hate.

That is the last little bit of fight left in White Protestant America, before the feminists, modern managerial state, and rich White elites and non-Whites castrate the vestiges. Treasure it. You'll miss it when its gone.

ben tillman said...

Don West, the lead defense attorney is by far the most plausibly Jewish of any of the attorneys.

He reminds me of one of Adrian Monk's psychiatrists.

Hunsdon said...

DR said: Nice casual/negligent anti-semitism: subtly, but deniably, insinuating that Zimmerman's prosecution is stemming from Jewish guilt or hostility to gentiles.

Hunsdon said: Should I make it clearer? I believe that Zimmerman's prosecution stems from Jewish hostility to gentiles. (Jews, in my opinion, do not especially distinguish themselves in the realm of guilt.)

I'm prepared to debate the point, if you'd like. Care to?

Whiskers said: And there is nothing sickening about Romney and Gingrich going before AIPAC. Most White Americans don't think groveling before Muslims is a good idea . . . .

Hunsdon said: If groveling before Muslims is a bad idea, how is groveling before AIPAC not a bad idea? Groveling is a bad idea.

Would you care, good Whiskers, to debate in detail whether American politicians grovel before AIPAC?

Anonymous said...

Jonas Salk. So when do you ever hear of anyone being describe as being of "Jewish Irish" ancestry? On Wikipedia you do.

"Jonas Salk was born in New York City on October 28, 1914. His parents, Daniel and Dora (Press) Salk, were from Jewish Irish immigrant families, and had not received extensive formal education. According to historian David Oshinsky, Salk grew up in the "Jewish immigrant culture" of New York. He had two younger brothers, Herman and Lee, a child psychologist.[5][6] The family moved from East Harlem to the Bronx, with some time spent in Queens."

Anonymous said...

Whiskey:"And there is nothing sickening about Romney and Gingrich going before AIPAC."

Of course the spectacle of American politicians groveling before a foreign power is sickening.What makes it all the more disgusting is that there is no alternative. Both parties kowtow to the desires of Israel.

Mr. Anon said...

"Whiskey said...

And there is nothing sickening about Romney and Gingrich going before AIPAC."

There most decidedly is. You may think there is nothing revolting about every - EVERY - serious candidate for President prostrating himself before one particular foreign lobby. But a lot of the rest of us do.

"Most White Americans don't think groveling before Muslims is a good idea,....."

George W. Bush literally held hands with the Saudi King, as if he was his best sweetheart. You don't think that is groveling?

"and the more Muslims attack us (and have since Nixon) the more we like anyone they hate."

You throw around this "we" a lot. You don't seem to be part of the same "we" that I am.

pat said...

Yesterday I noticed something interesting in the FBI table of violent crime by age and race.

Their table has unequal frequency groupings. So the ages of 17 and 18 are one grouping but the older ages are grouped in fours or more. So if you casually read that table it appears black male murders are most frequent in the mid twenties cohort. But that's an illusion. The most violent black male age is 17-18.

So you read a lot of people who refer to Trayvon Martin as a child or a teen. In fact as a 17 year old black male he was a member of the most deadly segment of the population.

BTW I'm reading Wolfe's latest novel right now. Yesterday I sent two others - 'A Man in Full' and 'I am Charlotte Simmonds' to an old girl friend who has moved to the South. Bonfire shook me up as no other work of fiction ever has.

Albertosaurus

pat said...

I got an email from someone named Zimmerman the other day. This woman also has registered for a DNA scan on 23andMe. She thinks I'm her fourth or fifth cousin.

George Zimmerman could be my kin!

I know I had an uncle my marriage named Zimmer. He's the one who had the pre-frontal lobotomy.

Albertosaurus

DR said...

You're missing the point. The whole Zimmerman thing was turned into an ANTI-WHITE sensation by Jewish-controlled media and Jewish-bought politicians... [nutbag conspiracy theories]

To see how ridiculous you sound: take your post and s/jew/lacrosse player/:

As in, surely you know the media and universities are controlled by lacrosse players! I'd estimate that 20% or more of NYT reporters played lacrosse (or rowed crew or some sort of other similar sport), whereas fewer than 2% of Americans ever even sit foot on a lacrosse field.

Clearly the major media is wholly bought and controlled by a cabal of lacrosse players, one that insidiously promotes the interest of lacrosse over sports like hockey, (which is highly underrepresented among American elites).

Furthermore did you know that high-ranking military officers play lacrosse much less than media elites! Lacrosse is barely even recognized at the military academies compared to the Ivies. Clearly Iraq is a conspiracy to get rid of these non-lacrosse playing rubes.


The analogy works because the intellectual elites are drawn from a distinct cross-section of the American population. You can easily pick from any number of characteristics and show that the elites differ from the masses. Jews are over-represented in the intellectual elite for HBD (higher verbal intelligence), geographic (higher coastal concentration where intellectual centers are located), and cultural reasons (a long history of working in journalism or academia).

But over-representation is not sufficient to demonstrate conspiracy. Otherwise we could equally posit a lacrosse players conspiracy, a recreation sailers conspiracy, a Vineyard Vines wearer conspiracy, or a hundred other farces.

The question is whether the higher Jewishness of the intellectual elites is an ancillary or salient characteristic. Your hypothesis posits that if history was re-written with no Jews having ever immigrated to the U.S. that the intellectual characteristic of the elite would be fundamentally different. Otherwise the Jewishness of the elites is no more salient to the issue than lacrosse is.

This belief is clearly absurd in light of the fact that nearly Jew-free Sweden is the most left-wing, pro-multicultural and politically correct country on the planet. If intellectual leftism is the responsibility of the Jews you have no way to explain why Sweden's intellectual elites are way more screwed up than America's. Unless you think there are a few secret Swedish Jews pulling the puppet strings for an entire country, in which case you're really nuts.

In fact among the Western world the most Jewish countries tend to be the least left-wing and multicultural: America, U.K., Canada, Australia, apartheid South Africa. In contrast continental Europe: Scandinavia, Germany, France, Benelux have embraced multi-cultural PC leftism with a gusto unseen in the former countries.

Anonymous said...

"In reality the main prosecutors are..."

The media - who wanted a Great White Defendent - wanted one so bad they got themselves a hispanic man on trial for his life because he looks close enough to White in just the right light.

Not including the other innocent people who'll die either way as a result of the media's anti-white crusade. If Zimmerman is convicted there'll be those who hesitate to use self-defence a second or two too late and if he's not convicted then the people who'll be killed in "revenge" - plus of course those who already have been.

.

Bonfire, great book both as a story and a piece of history.

Anonymous said...

"But over-representation is not sufficient to demonstrate conspiracy. Otherwise we could equally posit a lacrosse players conspiracy, a recreation sailers conspiracy, a Vineyard Vines wearer conspiracy, or a hundred other farces."

True, but Jews are over-represented at the top, in the elite positions that determine hiring, promotion, and agenda. So, even when Jews hire goyim, it's pushovers like Charlie Rose and Walter Russell Mead than people like Sailer. So, even most goyim in the media are little more than sockpuppets.

Also, never mind lacrosse players. Replace 'Jews' with Muslim-Americans, Chinese-Americans, or (gentile)Russian Americans. Suppose one of those groups had the power that Jews have in media, academia, Wall Street, government, courts, high tech, and etc.
You would certainly sound the alarm about their great power.

In America, most whites are not privileged, but Jews have screamed 'white privilege' to vilify whites.
Honeymoon with Jews is over. Too many people like Harold Meyerson and Jennifer Rubin can spew all the filth and venom and destroy lives and laugh about their power fiendishly.

Enough.

And if you deny that Derbyshire and Sailer have been blacklisted from MSM as the result of Jewish power, you're a liar.

I don't necessarily believe a Jewish 'conspiracy' is behind it all. After all, you don't need to conspire when you got so much power. You can just order it to be done. Conspiracy is usually the tool of outsiders or illegal actors. Since Jews control the laws and information, they now have the power to do even bad things legally.
They can say 'gay marriage' is real marriage, they can say 'illegal aliens' aren't illegal or alien but merely 'non-citizens' whom we must embrace.

Anonymous said...

"This belief is clearly absurd in light of the fact that nearly Jew-free Sweden is the most left-wing, pro-multicultural and politically correct country on the planet."

You forget that Sweden is part of the global order. They watch Hollywood movies, American TV shows. Many Jewish-American books have been translated into Swedish. Swedish academics have studied in America. And Swedish media are actually controlled by Jews, as is the case in Canada.
Sweden also follows trends in other European nations. Swedes have rarely been leaders in anything. They didn't invent multi-culturalism. They got it from others. Also, because ALL Nordics were made out to be Nazi-tainted by association, Swedes have gone out of their way to show that they are GOOD 'Aryans', even to the point of risking self-annihilation.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ

The crazy Jewish woman says Europe is going through a resurgence of anti-semitism because it hasn't learned to be multi-culti yet. But the biggest haters of Jews are among the new Muslim immigrants. She says Europe will not survive unless it embraces multi-culti, which is like saying Japan will not survive unless it takes in 10 million Nigerians.
I mean where do Jews get this stuff? They aren't stupid and can't believe what they're saying, so there has to be an ulterior motive.

Ohm btw, unless Israel takes in 2 million Pakistanis, it will not survive. Boy, aren't I wise and helpful toward Jews.

Anonymous said...

But over-representation is not sufficient to demonstrate conspiracy. Otherwise we could equally posit a lacrosse players conspiracy, a recreation sailers conspiracy, a Vineyard Vines wearer conspiracy, or a hundred other farces.

I don't think Steve is insinuating a "conspiracy", that is conscious deliberation.

A conspiracy isn't necessary. A general cultural attitude or characteristic that correlates with a particular population will result in certain effects without any conscious, deliberate conspiracy on the part of the members of the population.

Let's say you live in an Italian neighborhood. There's a higher than average number of pizzerias in the neighborhood because it's an Italian neighborhood. So you end up eating more pizza than you would otherwise. There was no conscious, deliberate conspiracy among the Italians to open more pizzerias than average and to feed you more pizza than you would normally eat.

Silver said...

Of course the spectacle of American politicians groveling before a foreign power is sickening.

Particularly the humiliating but obligatory ritual of visiting Jerusalem, donning the yarmulke and pledging your undying commitment to serving Jewish interests.

I wonder how many of them haven't daydreamed about using the opportunity to utter a deliciously scandalous - and totally career-ending - statement like "Mr. Netanyahu, tear down this wall!"

Hunsdon said...

Anonydroid at 11:56 AM said: A general cultural attitude or characteristic that correlates with a particular population will result in certain effects without any conscious, deliberate conspiracy on the part of the members of the population.

Hunsdon said: Dead on, sir. Dead on.

DR blathered: Your hypothesis posits that if history was re-written with no Jews having ever immigrated to the U.S. that the intellectual characteristic of the elite would be fundamentally different.

Hunsdon said: Wow, you're going to deny the poor Jews any agency? Any contribution? Absent Celler and the ADL, the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 would still have passed, in substantially the same form? The man spent all that time on it, and it was inevitable anyway? He could have been home golfing?

Absent Celler, the Gun Control Act of 1968 would still have been based on the 1938 German gun control law?

Absent Lenny Bruce, American comedy would still have veered towards the scatological and potty-mouthed?

The US would have inevitably purged the Arabists from State and adopted a policy sympathetic to Israel and hostile to the Arab world, even absent the Jews?

Poor helpless little Jews, swept along by the tides of history, rising to prominence but helpless to act on their beliefs! They simply do what anyone else would do in their place.

Anonymous said...

Bruce Willis apparently regrets it.

The Bonfire of the Vanities movie was rewritten to put Bruce Willis in it more because he was on the up and the producers wanted more box office appeal thus changing the story a lot and making it less appealing to the potential audience.

Anonymous said...

"Poor helpless little Jews, swept along by the tides of history, rising to prominence but helpless to act on their beliefs! They simply do what anyone else would do in their place."

According to neocons, we should fear the coming of sharia law in America than the power of AIPAC.

ben tillman said...

This belief is clearly absurd in light of the fact that nearly Jew-free Sweden is the most left-wing, pro-multicultural and politically correct country on the planet.

Fascinating, then, that the introduction of the ideology of multiculturalism to Sweden featured prominent and direct Jewish involvement.

In 1964, a Jewish-owned newspaper (Dagens Nyheter), the country's largest and most important paper, published "The Immigration Problem in Sweden" by a Jewish émigré from Poland (David Schwarz). A "debate" ensued, which was dominated by Dagens Nyheter and David Schwarz (who found it helpful to accuse his opponents of anti-Semitism). The Rightist Party was the first to embrace multiculturalism and its leader from 1961-1965 was Jewish (Gunnar Heckscher). By 1968, it had changed its name from the Rightist Party to the Moderate Party.

So you read a lot of people who refer to Trayvon Martin as a child or a teen. In fact as a 17 year old black male he was a member of the most deadly segment of the population.

Keep in mind that this is partly because a higher percentage of older Black men are incarcerated, but you're right.

Kekkonen said...

Actually Sweden went ideologically multiculti already in the 1970s almost all of their own, mostly due to the ethnic make-up of the labor immigrants and the nationalistic quest of Swedish elites to lead the most progressive, i.e. the "best", nation in the world. But yeah a Jew, David Schwarz, was heavily involved in the introduction of multiculturalism in Sweden. He did, however, make somewhat of an anti-immigration and nationalistic (Swedish) turn in his later years.

DR said...

So, even most goyim in the media are little more than sockpuppets.

Ted Turner, Rupert Murdoch, Steve Jobs, Carlos Slim, Kazuo Hirai, John Maline, and Jeff Bewkes are all Jewish sock puppets? Men like this are some of the most manly, independent and least controllable men on the face of the planet. The idea that they'd act as meek pushovers in their role of media moguls is laughable.

If the Jewish cabal's grip on the media was so powerful why is it that they allow the largest and most powerful media companies to be owned and headed by gentiles (and highly obstinate and rebellious gentiles at that)?

Also, because ALL Nordics were made out to be Nazi-tainted by association, Swedes have gone out of their way to show that they are GOOD 'Aryans', even to the point of risking self-annihilation.

So when countries with a lot of Jews do leftist things it's proves the power of the Jews. And when countries with hardly any Jews do leftist thing it also proves the power of the Jews.

This is why the Stormfront leaning section of this part of the blogosphere is ridiculous. Your ideas don't even rise to the level of hypothesis because you make no falsifiable claims. Literally any and all facts somehow bolster your claims.

Let's say you live in an Italian neighborhood...

I think this is a perfect analogy. But let's relate it back to what the Stormfront-leaning crowd contends: that all or nearly all of leftism and multiculturalism is due to Jewish influence.

In your analogy it'd be like noticing that there's an obesity epidemic. Then you also notice fat people tend to eat a lot of pizza. You put two and two together and you say "aha! Americans are fat, because of those damned Italians." (Furthermore you could add "look at how the Italians tend to be thinner and eat healthier than the typical Italian food served in America")

I point out that fat Americans eat a lot of other greasy, fatty non-Italian foods like cheeseburgers, doughnuts, chicken fingers, pie, etc. I contend that it's a demand, not a supply problem. Americans demand greasy, fatty foods. Italians are great cooks, so naturally a lot of the greasy, fatty food is Italian.

But even if no Italian ever set foot in America, we'd still end up being a nation of obese slobs. We'd just eat more of the non-Italian fatty food to make up for it.

Wow, you're going to deny the poor Jews any agency? Any contribution?

Jews are highly involved in leftist intellectual movements of the 20th century. This is a simple consequence of HBD.

Jews were highly important in the discover of quantum physics. Would you call quantum physics a Jewish theory. Do you feel like physics has been irreparably altered and manipulated by the Jews?

Of course not. It's simple to imagine an alternative history where the medieval Ashkenazim converts and assimilates into Christendom. Any influence of Jewry on European culture is non-existent in such a scenario. Does quantum physics cease to exist? Does it never get discovered?

No, the same trajectory occurs but with merely different names in the history books. The father of modern leftism in the United States is without a doubt FDR. He defined the modern American progressive state, of which the multicultural add-on was a mere inevitability.

No Jews, still means that the US elects FDR. Which means that we get the New Deal state, the rise of university power, the infiltration of Communists agents into the government, the U.N., Western de-colonialism, MLK, the 1960s, and the Cathedral. It all looks essentially the same with or without Jews.

Jews tend to be smart and crafty, so many took advantage of this sea change to earn power, status, fame and money. Just as many smart and crafty WASPs did the same. Just the same as many Jews and WASPs did not participate and earned their accolades in other endeavors.

But at the end of the day you're blaming the sickness on the symptoms not the cause.

DR said...

In 1964, a Jewish-owned newspaper (Dagens Nyheter), the country's largest and most important paper, published "The Immigration Problem in Sweden" by a Jewish émigré from Poland (David Schwarz).

Well of course if one Jew is involved in any manner then that goes to prove that it's a Jewish conspiracy.

It's perfectly reasonable to assume that one newspaper publisher was solely responsible for changing the ideological history of an entire country. That the Swedes would have never even considered multiculturalism and were aghast at the idea, until this one crafty charlatan poisoned virtually every mind in the country.

Also of course that is why neighboring, David Schwarz-free, Denmark and Norway never touched multiculturalism, and today they are 100% white countries.

played early yesterday said...

I was once the Great White Defendant, sort of.

It was 1998 in Berkeley. It was an unusual basketball game, with eight Asians, one blonde surfer-looking kid, and me, the 40-ish unclassifiable Jewish/ Lebanese/Moroccan/Italian guy.

The blonde kid gets upset when I block him off the boards, and fires the ball at my junk. I throw it back at him. So he walks up on me, with the universal bully's chin in the air. Now it's self-defense, right? - I cool him off with an open palm under the chin. Amazingly, he calls the cops and claims to have been choked. Even more amazing, the Asian kids back him up.

So I get arrested, and spend 12 hrs. in a cell with a drugged out native-american environmental activist whose troops have lashed themselves to a bunch of trees on the campus to protest expansion of the football stadium. He tells me Ronald Reagan is behind the stadium project.

Come time for trial, the young black prosecutor asks for a continuance, saying his witnesses are out of town for the summer. The judge asks me if I agree to waive time (speedy trial), and I refuse, demanding an immediate jury trial (knowing I'd get a few brothas who'd laugh at such a trivial dustup.) The prosecutor makes me an offer, says, "just plead to an infraction, $100." I refuse, the judge says, "well, we don't have a jury pool right now." Case dismissed.

I get in the elevator down and there's a latino guy in a suit. He says, "remember me?" I didn't. Turns out he's a public defender, and we'd played together in a similar game years before. Given the circumstances, I ask him, "was I OK?" He says, "you were kind of a jerk."

Anonymous said...

To DR said;

"..nearly Jew-free Sweden.."

In reality the largest and most influential newspaper in Sweden is owned by Jews. Jews were deeply involved in pushing the multi-cult, globalist agenda on the unknowing Scandinavians, as they have been on just about everyone else, except themselves in Israel, of course. Diluting the Swedish character of Sweden; that's the "thanks" they showed Sweden for men like Raoul Wallenberg. .

Anonymous said...

I think this is a perfect analogy. But let's relate it back to what the Stormfront-leaning crowd contends: that all or nearly all of leftism and multiculturalism is due to Jewish influence.

In your analogy it'd be like noticing that there's an obesity epidemic. Then you also notice fat people tend to eat a lot of pizza. You put two and two together and you say "aha! Americans are fat, because of those damned Italians." (Furthermore you could add "look at how the Italians tend to be thinner and eat healthier than the typical Italian food served in America")

I point out that fat Americans eat a lot of other greasy, fatty non-Italian foods like cheeseburgers, doughnuts, chicken fingers, pie, etc. I contend that it's a demand, not a supply problem. Americans demand greasy, fatty foods. Italians are great cooks, so naturally a lot of the greasy, fatty food is Italian.

But even if no Italian ever set foot in America, we'd still end up being a nation of obese slobs. We'd just eat more of the non-Italian fatty food to make up for it.


No, this isn't the right analogy. The right analogy would be that the Italians have a monopoly on food distribution and that pizza parlors dominate the food industry. Any neighborhood that decides to not have any pizza parlors or encourages its residents to eat less pizza because it causes obesity gets attacked by the Italians and accused of being "anti-Italic".

Anonymous said...

D.R.

We live in a mediacracy. The media control the bounds of debate and thereby control the range of possible outcomes. It's not direct day to day control but it controls the near future. There can be no real democracy unless the media is democratized.

but hat deflects from the main point which is

The media are relentlessly anti-white.
The media want a great White Defendent.
The media put Zimmerman on trial.
The media want him convicted.
The media are responsible for all the deaths that will flow from either outcome

Hunsdon said...

DR said: Jews are highly involved in leftist intellectual movements of the 20th century. This is a simple consequence of HBD.

Hunsdon said: So it's something genetic that makes Jews leftists? Something cultural that makes Jews leftists? Or simple intelligence that makes them leftists?

DR: Would you call quantum physics a Jewish theory.

Hunsdon: You conflate, sir, politics with science? The latter is an attempt to describe the world, the first an attempt to change the world. Do you see no difference between them?

Are you an iron laws of history man?

DR: Of course not. It's simple to imagine an alternative history where the medieval Ashkenazim converts and assimilates into Christendom. Any influence of Jewry on European culture is non-existent in such a scenario.

Hunsdon: Yes, the marranos, the donme, the conversos, they have had no influence on European culture. Tell me more, Daddy!

DR: He defined the modern American progressive state, of which the multicultural add-on was a mere inevitability.

Hunsdon: Ah, so you ARE a historical inevitability man, an iron laws of history man. Like, what was his name again? Marx? So a welfare state inevitably implies identity politics, deChristianization and mass immigration?

DR said: But let's relate it back to what the Stormfront-leaning crowd contends . . . .

Hunsdon translates: You mean we are Nazis, or, at least, so wish to be.

DR: But at the end of the day you're blaming the sickness on the symptoms not the cause.

Hunsdon said: Being leftist makes one a Jew? Or Jews are a symptom of leftism?

Come, sir, and step up your game. I thought Jews were supposed to possess some facility at this style of argument.

Anonymous said...

"Ted Turner, Rupert Murdoch, Steve Jobs, Carlos Slim, Kazuo Hirai, John Maline, and Jeff Bewkes are all Jewish sock puppets?"

Yup with the exception of Steve Jobs who was just kooky.

Anonymous said...

"So when countries with a lot of Jews do leftist things it's proves the power of the Jews. And when countries with hardly any Jews do leftist thing it also proves the power of the Jews."

Jews don't really act leftist. They only use leftism for Jewish power.

RS said...

> This belief is clearly absurd in light of the fact that nearly Jew-free Sweden is the most left-wing, pro-multicultural and politically correct country on the planet.

Yet apparently Jews do control a lot of their mass media.

Regardless, the population is 10 M, which makes them 1% of the European race. The world beyond Sweden is strongly determinative of what gets thought and believed in Sweden.

Golden Bear said...

I enjoy reading all of the Nazi-era like hand-wringing over the "demise" of White America. Too funny!

More to the point of the article, it appears most of you supporting the loser Zimmerman do so for one simple reason - he shot a Black youth. It doesn't matter to you that had you been Trayvon, you would have acted in precisely the same manner as Trayvon: Weird guy follows me as I go about my lawful business, weird guy attacks me in the rain out of the blue, I defend myself against weird guy, weird guy pulls out a handgun and kills me.

You will have your little racist hearts broken when Zimmerman is convicted. I will be here to gloat.

Mark said...

"...and John Guy (no heritage information available, but he's tall blonde and Nordic looking)."

Guy is an Anglo name. You Jews and blacks are always talking crap on European whites,but you couldn't tell a Norwegian from a Swede for a bag full of gold coins,or gold teeth,as the case may be.

"I'm not accusing Wolfe of being anti-semitic, I'm accusing Sailer of it. Wolfe's description in the book is wholly plausible and realistic in a literary sense. The description is certainly accurate for a good chunk of the New York Jewish lawyer population. There's nothing anti-semitic about merely observing the truth.

What smells funny to me is that in a novel that runs over 1000 pages that Sailer chooses the one excerpt that's about the Jewish sensibilities of the fictional prosecutor. The Zimmerman case has no Jewish prosecutor involved (or Irish or Italian for that matter)."

You dredle-baiting,kosher,adolescent swine. That passage refers to Irish as "mules" or "goats",my people have been referred to as animals in America since the Potato Famine. This country doesn't have that much of a history of anti-semitism,there haven't always been many Jews here,but since the beginning the Irish have been treated like scum. If anyone should be complaining,it's me. Nobody sent American shocktroops over to Erin to keep her free from British rule and they've been protecting your people's homeland for years.

But you don't hear me whining, "OH Steve, YOU'RE SO ANTI-IRISH!". All you Jews do is complain about crap.You need to find a hobby or be productive. My great-great-grandfather drug a plow by a leather strap through a field to feed his family. Maybe there is some truth to the "mule" comment, but at least he didn't complain about his life. Even though people treated him like crap, he was happy because he was free and he believed that Jesus Christ would reward him for being a good father.

I bet none of your Jew ancestors ever blistered his hands driving railroad spikes or digging crop rows,but they probably did just as much complaining as you.

DR said...

@Mark,

I'm 0% Jewish. I'm in fact part Irish Catholic and the rest old-stock WASP. But nice job projecting a bunch of (irrelevant) ad hominem.

You've given into the same identity politics that plague the modern West. Where everyone tries to out-compete each other about whose ancestors had it worse, and accuse other groups of "privilege." Except you're trying to play some bastardized right-wing version of a left-wing game, you'll never be relevant. Like trying to elect a protestant pope.

If you want to be a man, debate like a man. Argue about the facts. Don't whine like a bitch about your poor ole' grand-pappy.

DR said...

Regardless, the population is 10 M, which makes them 1% of the European race.

So Sweden with a tiny population of 10 million is merely beholden to what the rest of the West does. Yet somehow the same people would tell you that Israel with 2.3 million fewer people is somehow managint to control that same West?

Forget about Sweden, let's talk about China. The Chinese Communist Party is smart, paranoid, truly independent of any Western control, and has no qualms about being politically incorrect.

If Jewish power was really as insidious and controlling as your propose, then surely the CCP should recognize it. We may be brainwashed in the West, but the Chinese should not be. Why doesn't China ban Jews from entering the country? Or at least preferentially prefer gentile Westerners? Why does it actively court Jewish run companies like Disney, Oracle and Goldman Sachs into expanding Chinese operations and markets?

The CCP is clearly not afraid of Jewish insidiousness. You really think you've figured out some grand truth that the political sharks in the CCP haven't? The same can also easily be said of Putin's Russia, Singapore's PAP, Pinochet's Chile, Ian Smith's Rhodesia and the South Korean oligarchy.

All outside Western control, all highly politically astute, all not afraid to do dirty things to protect their own power. Yet none seem to be the least bit afraid of those evil Jews.

DR said...

So a welfare state inevitably implies identity politics, deChristianization and mass immigration?

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. This has nothing to do with iron laws of history, it's simply politically calculus. A welfare state creates the mechanism for political machines to buy patronage with state lucre.

Entering into such an arrangement requires a genuine underclass. Government cheese doesn't buy off too many doctors or engineers. Hence enterprising agents keep finding new groups to build political machines around. The more feral and less civilized the better. The welfare state, and its political classes, feed on human garbage.

In America the left started with midwestern farmers, then moved to ethnic whites, then to NAMs. Finally some political entrepreneurs started realizing there's a whole third world filled with billions of welfare-ready urchins, that can easily rival any homegrown American ghetto rat. And so in they come.

Welfare states are highly tuned machines to pump out human garbage. Even if by some miracle you seal off the borders forever and establish some sort of white nationalist paradise it doesn't matter. In a few generations the welfare state will create a homegrown, all white under-class. One that's just as bad any third world favela. In fact it pretty much already has.

The America of pre-1933, one that had genuine Constitutional limitations on Federal power could have quite possibly avoided multicultural decline. But once that welfare state got turned on, there's no going back. You immediately establish in-group constituencies that are fiercely loyal to the programs that keep on slushing their way. The only way out is a major political reset, otherwise the gradient of post-welfare state history is everywhere and always decline and self-destruction.

And that's why down home, WASPy, old-stock (anti-semitic) American-hero FDR, and his folksy constituency of homegrown, salt of the earth, apple-pie eating, midwestern farmers did more create our present day leftist clusterfuck than every Jew from Abraham to Einstein put together. It's FDR world, and jew and gentile alike, we're just living in it.

There's not some crafty Jewish coalition that pulled a fast one over on the good God-fearing Christian European people. The citizens of Western nations demanded the very governments that currently are the bane of out existence. Progressive leftism isn't some strange import from the orient. It's as American as apple pie. The fault lies not in our stars, but in ourselves.

Hunsdon said...

Golden Bear said: I enjoy reading all of the Nazi-era like hand-wringing over the "demise" of White America. Too funny!

Hunsdon said: Blah blah Nazis blah blah.

Golden Bear said: More to the point of the article, it appears most of you supporting the loser Zimmerman do so for one simple reason - he shot a Black youth.

Hunsdon said: That's right, GB. In the morning I get up and think, "Hey, maybe today I can shoot a Black youth." When I go to bed, I think, "Damn, not today. Ah, but tomorrow is another day!" (That's a "Gone With the Wind" reference I threw in JUST FOR YOU!)

DR said: If you want to be a man, debate like a man.

Hunsdon said: I'll just wait here while you answer my points. Or did you gloss over me? Come, sir, let us reason together.

Anonymous said...

Zimmerman attacked Trey'Vaughn? I thought it was the other way around ...

Tell me more!

Silver said...

I'm 0% Jewish. I'm in fact part Irish Catholic and the rest old-stock WASP. But nice job projecting a bunch of (irrelevant) ad hominem.

They always claim to be WASPs or Scots-Irish or the like when they pretend not to be Jewish on the net in my experience, never anything else.

The desperation they feel when the standard deflector strategy of "ANTISEMITE!!!" doesn't work eventually gives it away.

The citizens of Western nations demanded the very governments that currently are the bane of out existence. Progressive leftism isn't some strange import from the orient. It's as American as apple pie.

"Citizens," I see. You are shameless. And slimy.

Look, WHITE Americans vote overwhelmingly Republican so they are emphatically NOT choosing this path. As the electorate becomes increasingly non-white what whites want matters less and less - ie the fantasy of white "demise" in the eyes of people like Golden Bear.

DR said...

@Hundson

Come, sir, let us reason together.

Fair enough.

So it's something genetic that makes Jews leftists? Something cultural that makes Jews leftists? Or simple intelligence that makes them leftists?

Let's cut to the core of the disagreement. Do you think this is a fair summary of the central proposition that you support: "Modern progressive leftism is almost wholly a Jewish product"

First to clarify semantics. As for what constitutes modern progressive leftism, I don't think we're in fundamental disagreement. What constitutes a "Jewish product"? Heavy Jewish involvement is not sufficient. To draw back on the example of quantum physics it would still be developed in some alternative Jew-free world (heretofore "Goyimstan"), so quantum physics is not a "Jewish theory." In contrast matzah ball soup does constitute a genuinely Jewish food since it would not exist in Goyimstan. I think we can agree on this basic distinction.

If your claim is true Goyimstan should have virtually no trace of anything that resembles modern-day or historical leftism. Once phrased this way the entire proposition is prima facie absurd. See my earlier response to you: the father of American progressivism is undoubtedly FDR, and Goyimstan is still a world where the New Deal state exists. (And coming full circle the New Deal portends the inevitability of Trayvon-esque circuses. NAMs make fantastic welfare state clients. (Again, see my earlier post for the basic political calculus that dictates this)).

And that's it. That's all I have to show to invalidate your claim. Does that mean that the exact nature and tenets of progressive leftism in Goyimstan look identical? No of course not. Jewish achievement means that the developments of the 20th century in any aspect would look highly different without them. No doubt Goyimstan would have discovered the principles of quantum physics in a different order as well. Maybe even Copenhagen wouldn't be the default interpretation without that damned Niels Bohr.

An even easier analogy is search engines. We know that the search engine landscape of Goyimstan looks radically different (no Sergei and Larry for starters), but they still have search engines (even if they are probably crappier). You wouldn't conclude that search engines are inherently Jewish.

In short a jew free world is a world we have search engines, progressivism, but no matzah ball soup. Only one of these things earns the distinction of being a genuinely "jewish product."

Anonymous said...

To draw back on the example of quantum physics it would still be developed in some alternative Jew-free world (heretofore "Goyimstan"), so quantum physics is not a "Jewish theory."

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Jews developed quantum physics. The founding work of quantum physics was done by gentiles.

Anonymous said...

See my earlier response to you: the father of American progressivism is undoubtedly FDR

Progressivism predates FDR. But in any case, I'm not even sure you want to argue this, since in his day FDR was accused of being heavily under the influence of Jews, having many Jewish advisors, etc. Which was true, despite his purported "anti-Semitism".

Robin Buscato said...

Mr. Sailor, Wolfe is genius at dissecting - and predicting - cultural writhings. Have you read Hooking Up? Thanks for reminding us about how prescient Bonfire of the Vanities is!

Anonymous said...

It's always nice to read intelligent take-downs of the paranoid Jews-control-the-world crowd here. That said, it's not clear to me that there was anything maliciously anti-Jewish about Steve's original post.

Silver says: "They always claim to be WASPs or Scots-Irish or the like when they pretend not to be Jewish on the net in my experience, never anything else."

Well, I'm of pretty much pure German stock and I think y'all are crazy too. I'm not Jewish, but since you seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you must be, you can tally me up as a Jew pretending to be an ethnic German on your scorecard.

Svigor said...

So you read a lot of people who refer to Trayvon Martin as a child or a teen. In fact as a 17 year old black male he was a member of the most deadly segment of the population.

That's what I keep telling people; Tray-tray came from the America's leading murder demographic. 17-year-old blacks bumping one another off is commonplace.

Svigor said...

But over-representation is not sufficient to demonstrate conspiracy. Otherwise we could equally posit a lacrosse players conspiracy, a recreation sailers conspiracy, a Vineyard Vines wearer conspiracy, or a hundred other farces.

Jews are not over-represented in the elite anti-immigration or nationalist circles. They're not over-represented among the voices advocating for white ethnic interests. They're not over-represented among advocates for separatism or secession, or against centralized power. They're under-represented in all of these areas.

This belief is clearly absurd in light of the fact that nearly Jew-free Sweden is the most left-wing, pro-multicultural and politically correct country on the planet. If intellectual leftism is the responsibility of the Jews you have no way to explain why Sweden's intellectual elites are way more screwed up than America's. Unless you think there are a few secret Swedish Jews pulling the puppet strings for an entire country, in which case you're really nuts.

You guys always bring this up, but I don't think you think it through first. Sweden has fewer Jews in power than the US does, yes. Sweden also has far fewer immigrants and non-Swedes in their country. I don't really care about leftist or multicultural politics, or political correctness, if it doesn't result in hordes of aliens in my country.

The take-home point seems to be that fewer Jews means fewer aliens, no?

In fact among the Western world the most Jewish countries tend to be the least left-wing and multicultural: America, U.K., Canada, Australia, apartheid South Africa. In contrast continental Europe: Scandinavia, Germany, France, Benelux have embraced multi-cultural PC leftism with a gusto unseen in the former countries.

Again, you're making my point for me: America, UK, and South Africa are careening toward demographic ruin far faster than Scandinavia or Germany (I don't really know about France, since head-counting there is illegal).

Svigor said...

I think this is a perfect analogy. But let's relate it back to what the Stormfront-leaning crowd contends: that all or nearly all of leftism and multiculturalism is due to Jewish influence.

I'll just speak for myself, and what I posit: that Jewish influence leads to higher alien populations. I think the facts bear this out. America, UK are both English-speaking (and thus most impacted by America's Jewish-influenced, English-language indoctrination), and both leading the charge over the demographic cliff (South Africa's actually much closer to hitting bottom but I'll leave them out for various reasons). Germany, Scandinavia, etc., despite being more leftist than America or UK, are far more demographically secure. I don't see how these are comparisons that help your case. On the contrary, I think they support my position.

And again, Jewish talent alone doesn't explain things. Jewish talent seems to find a pretty specific, and consistent, set of outlets and causes.

But at the end of the day you're blaming the sickness on the symptoms not the cause.

At the end of the day you're trying to shoehorn in a false dichotomy. I'm not saying "the Anglo-Saxons had no part in it, it was all the Jews." I'm saying that Jews have been instrumental, a necessary, if not sufficient, condition. And that without their influence, things could have gone another way. In fact, it's very plausible that the demographic battle for America would not have been lost had Jews not been in the fight. It's almost certain it would have been won if they'd been on the other side.

The same can also easily be said of Putin's Russia

Putin just said a few days ago that the first Soviet was 85% Jews.

And that's why down home, WASPy, old-stock (anti-semitic) American-hero FDR, and his folksy constituency of homegrown, salt of the earth, apple-pie eating, midwestern farmers did more create our present day leftist clusterfuck than every Jew from Abraham to Einstein put together.

Right. It's crazy talk to say one Jew did anything, but perfectly reasonable to say that one "goy" did more harm than all the Jews put together.

The fault lies not in our stars, but in ourselves.

Well, here's one instance of head-counting. The consequences are pretty apparent:

http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1509/
http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1510/

Let's cut to the core of the disagreement. Do you think this is a fair summary of the central proposition that you support: "Modern progressive leftism is almost wholly a Jewish product"

No. Jewish influence, Jewish presence, are bad for white "gentile" civilizations and societies. That's the proposition I support. I didn't bother reading the rest of your comment, because I generously assumed it all followed on logically from your false premise.

Hunsdon said...

DR: You seem to be playing fast and loose with your arguments. You say that a welfare state inevitably leads to identity politics and mass immigration, but then deny any link to iron laws of history. At the same time, you assert that closing the borders (and creating a ‘white nationalist paradise’) would inevitably lead to a white underclass “as bad as any Third World favela.” (Thus denying HBD.) You assert that Jews have no agency, but are (for reasons of HBD) vastly overrepresented in modern progressive leftism.

If I did not have your assurances as to your Anglo-Celtic ancestry, I might suspect you suffer from shtetl madness.

DR: Jewish achievement means that the developments of the 20th century in any aspect would look highly different without them.

Hunsdon: But we’d still be in the same place we are now? We’d have the Frankfort school (but it would be highly different), we’d have feminism (but it would look highly different), we’d have immigration (but it would be highly different), we’d have civil rights (but they would be highly different) and we’d have Hollywood . . . but it, too, would be highly different. So everything would be the same, only highly different! (And, as you assert, probably crappier.)

Either you’re mixing your blarney with your poteen, or it’s shtetl madness.

Oh, and we might not have matzo ball soup, but we’d still have tortilla soup.

Anonymous said...

Svigor says: "Well, here's one instance of head-counting. The consequences are pretty apparent:

http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1509/
http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1510/"

These data doesn't let us distinguish between your hypothesis that Jewishness causes these stances from the hypothesis (alluded to earlier by DR) that attributes correlated with Jewishness (geographic location, intelligence, education, wealth, etc., etc.) causes these stances. Do you have data on how these factors correlate with immigration voting patterns?

"Jewish influence, Jewish presence, are bad for white "gentile" civilizations and societies. That's the proposition I support."

That's pretty much an unfalsifiable proposition. That Jews tend to support mass immigration is a testable proposition, but this statement leaves open how to balance the alleged bad effects (e.g., greater third-world immigration) with possible good effects (e.g., more advancements in science and technology).

Anonymous said...

"So you read a lot of people who refer to Trayvon Martin as a child or a teen. In fact as a 17 year old black male he was a member of the most deadly segment of the population."

'Teens'seem to be committing lots of violence in the news.

Anonymous said...

Hunsdon says: "At the same time, you assert that closing the borders (and creating a ‘white nationalist paradise’) would inevitably lead to a white underclass “as bad as any Third World favela.” (Thus denying HBD.)"

Hunsdon, this assertion does not deny HBD. First, welfare state policies can lead to differences in people's mating behavior and thus to differences in the quality of children produced (e.g., women can have more children from "bad boys" secure that the state will take care of them); so the subsequent cultural decline can have partly genetic origins. Second, it's perfectly consistent to think that genetics has a greater influence (or that culture has less) in one area than another. It seems to me quite plausible that intelligence and ability are more constrained by genetics and behavior is less constrained, so that members of a high-IQ population (Jews) would be likely to rise to the top levels of society, while at the same time the amount of crime, immorality, etc. in a society is much more malleable and can decline even without a huge genetic change.

Hail said...

The Jewish mayor's narration in 'Bonfire' includes the following --

[He is at once (a) angry that Black malcontents are heckling his speech; (b) frustrated with the Black hecklers because "who have been your friends all these years The Jews!"; and (c) annoyed that Whites will enjoy watching him go down in flames.]
________________________________
[Addressing White Gentiles] "Cattle! Birdbrains! Rosebuds! Goyim! You don't even know, do you? Do you really think this is your city any longer? Open your eyes! The greatest city of the twentieth century! Do you think money will keep it yours?

Come down from your swell co-ops, you general partners and merger lawyers! It’s the Third World down there!"

________________________________
Census 2010 finds "an equal number of Blacks/Hispanics as Whites in the USA's nine 5-million+ 'megalopolises' — NYC, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Philadelphia, Houston, Washington, Miami, Atlanta. Combined, these megalopolises are home to 33.4 million Blacks/Hispanics and 33.5 million Whites. Among young megalopolis-dwellers, Whites are certainly already a minority." [Source] -- Note that this is for metropolitan areas, not just the core cities.

In 2010, 167 million people lived in U.S> metro areas of over one-million inhabitants; 90 million were White Non-Hispanics, 77 million ere Nonwhites.

Subtracting Jews and other marginal-Whites (who wouldn't generally call themselves "White-Americans" but may in some cases be counted as White), you'd have a White-American minority. All the talk of 2050, 2044, whatever it is...it's already here in the Metropolitan-USA, of course. Tom Wolfe saw it even in the '60s, from some of his essays I've read. By the '80s, his vision of the near-future was fleshed-out. "It's not your city any longer", indeed.

Call him Tom "The Prophet" Wolfe.

Anonymous said...

"It's always nice to read intelligent take-downs of the paranoid Jews-control-the-world crowd here."

There's no take-down, intelligent or otherwise. There's just a mass of screeching noise which anyone with previous experience knows means one thing or two things the second of which is the person involved is psychologically incapable of actual debate.

The way to deal with them is to not debate at all but simply repeat an incontrovertible fact that leads to them melting down. For example,

It's a simple fact that the media is overwhelmingly dominated by Jewish pundits who are full-on for immigration and diversity for America but want the exact opposite when it applies to Israel.

This alone proves beyond a reasonable doubt that they are ethno-nationalists not liberals and they see this as an ethnic conflict.

Svigor said...

DR: Jewish achievement means that the developments of the 20th century in any aspect would look highly different without them.

Hunsdon's right to highlight this. All the bad stuff Jews were involved in, well, it would have happened anyway; Jews were in no way responsible. All the good stuff Jews were involved in, well, it never would have happened without them; Jews were wholly and solely responsible.

The other flavor of this is to simply ignore or rule out anything and everything bad with Jewish fingerprints on it, and then turn around and trumpet anything and everything good with Jewish fingerprints on it.

Basic accounting involves black ink and red ink, positive numbers and negative ones.

Another of my basic positions is that in the final tally, Jews are well into the red in my ethnic ledger. This is especially so when we consider that they have light bulbs in Japan; none of Edison's co-ethnics required.

Silver said...

It's always nice to read intelligent take-downs of the paranoid Jews-control-the-world crowd here.

Nice try.

Okay, have it your way.

Jews have NO power in America. Jews exert NO political influence. Jews have NO cultural clout. Jews NEVER organize around Jewish ethnic interests. And there are NO social penalties whatsoever attached to pondering out loud whether these assertions may be false.

Okey dokey.

Silver said...

It's a simple fact that the media is overwhelmingly dominated by Jewish pundits who are full-on for immigration and diversity for America but want the exact opposite when it applies to Israel.

It goes further than that. They are also for total ethnic dissolution of European groups but are strangely committed to Jewish continuity.

I don't get it. Why are they holding back? They are a Light unto the Nations. If it's a good idea they should go first - "Israel First."

Anonymous said...

East-Asians are actually shockingly fond of theories of how Jews control the west and thus the world (for now...). Mein Kampf is often prominently displayed on the carts of book sellers next to Chinas biggest universities, a jews control finance book was recently a bestseller. But China is probably the country in the world that is most independent of the west, so while they believe in Jewish power they don't think it's their problem. They might dislike the fact that America is the world's most powerful country, they don't care if Jews or whites control America.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/06/judaism-race

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/china-anti-semitic-conspiracy-theories-and-wall-street/

When Oirish Ois are Smoiling said...

And the über-honest DR spake unto the people, saying:

I'm 0% Jewish. I'm in fact part Irish Catholic and the rest old-stock WASP. But nice job projecting a bunch of (irrelevant) ad hominem.

Yes. And Stephen Jay "Top o' the Mornin'" Gould was an objective scientist and expert statistician.

But over-representation is not sufficient to demonstrate conspiracy. Otherwise we could equally posit a lacrosse players conspiracy, a recreation sailers conspiracy, a Vineyard Vines wearer conspiracy, or a hundred other farces.

Hear, hear! Remember what Susan "Dublin Dame" Sontag said:

"Hockey-players are the cancer of human history."

This belief is clearly absurd in light of the fact that nearly Jew-free Sweden is the most left-wing, pro-multicultural and politically correct country on the planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Lerner_Spectre

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 7/5/13, 2:03 AM is applying Stormfront logic, i.e. anyone who doesn't hate Jews must be Jewish himself.