April 5, 2014

UKIP winning hearts and minds of Brits

A major global political trend is the rise of immigration restrictionism wherever it is allowed to participate in an even footing in the national debate. For example, in Britain the fourth party United Kingdom Independence Party's Nigel Farage has been allowed to hold two televised debates with the deputy prime minister Nick Clegg, leader of the third party Liberal Democrats. Here are some video highlights.

From The Guardian:
Even Lib Dem voters thought Farage won the debate against Clegg 
Guardian/ICM poll finds 69% of viewers giving victory to the Ukip frontman, while just 31% think that Liberal Democrat leader won 
Nick Clegg suffered a resounding defeat in Wednesday's televised Europe debate with Nigel Farage, according to an instant Guardian/ICM poll. Of viewers giving a verdict, 69% said Ukip's frontman had won, with just 31% giving victory to the Liberal Democrat leader. 
Viewers also judged, by 49% to 39%, that Nigel Farage came across as having the "more appealing personality". By an emphatic 64% to 30% margin viewers thought he had the better arguments. 
Farage was judged the victor with ICM across all age groups and regions, and even among viewers who had been Lib Dem voters in 2010 – only 41% of those who had backed Clegg in the last election thought he came out on top, as against 59% who thought Farage did. 
Whereas only 7% of viewers say they are now more likely to vote Lib Dem in next month's Euro election, 38% say the same of Ukip.
     

71 comments:

Udolpho.com said...

It was a trouncing. The full debates are worth watching. Clegg comes off as a typical oily politician making empty assurances and insisting that--beat--he cares.

The tide appears to be turning on an establishment, elitist ruling party that has repeated the same platitudes over and over to an increasingly disbelieving and angry audience.

reiner Tor said...

Even if immigration is stopped fully, it needs to be reversed. I'm not sure if that was possible, but maybe there's some hope that if the pendulum starts to swing, it might swing a great deal.

Anonymous said...

I found it odd that clegg could name two Indian chiefs.

Bert said...

Forget Nick Clegg, I want to see Farage debate Miliband.

Anonymous said...

If anyone can become English, can any piece of territory around the world become England?

Are national and territorial ideas independent of their material basis and origins or are they meaningless when entirely cut off from their material roots?

Anonymous said...

Clegg may have been beaten less by his opponent than by reality in the streets that is difficult to dismiss to anyone with eyes.

Anonymous said...

Clegg was unbeleivably bad playing the "pink card" four times and Farage ignored him each time.

Anonymous said...

I suspect that Farage will soon jump off a building in London or something.

Anonymous said...

I find it funny how Clegg kept going on about WWG ("Turning the clock back to the 1960's") when it was Enoch Powell who cosponsored the first gay rights legislation in Britain in 1965.

German_reader said...

Just watched those clips...Clegg really comes across as rather despicable, a typical representative of Britain's worthless metropolitan elite. And pretty stupid too, with his silly moralizing about Assad ("the worst dictator in the world", and all it takes to end the civil war in Syria is a phone call from Putin - really?). Interesting also how he tries to paint Farage as a conspiracy crank and can only come up with references to American culture (Obama no real American, moon landings etc.) that are totally irrelevant to Britain. But then there doesn't seem to be much authentically British about Clegg anyway.
Really wish UKIP the best of luck and hope they'll be doing well in the European elections.

Auntie Analogue said...


Where is our American Nigel Farage?

(...crickets....)

Glaivester said...

UKIP is okay - but if I were British I'd be leaning toward BNP and folks like Nick Griffin.

Glaivester said...

I should point out that I do not share the anti-Israeli point of view that he expresses in the video, but the rest is spot-on (and even the anti-Israel part is okay if it is just to show how anti-European propaganda would sound if directed against Israel instead of European countries).

Anonymous said...

@German_reader:
What would be examples of british conspiracy theories?

Bert said...

Oh yeah, Clegg mentioning Assad was gloriously stupid. He seems oblivious to the fact that Britons overwhelmingly oppose doing ANYTHING in Syria.

Bert said...

"UKIP is okay - but if I were British I'd be leaning toward BNP and folks like Nick Griffin."

Nick Griffin is a moron who would rather make attention-grabbing outrageous statements than actually build a movement that could do something positive. The BNP in general had their chance and they'd rather act like buffoons. I'm tired to seeing folks defend them.

Dan said...

Clegg isn't really English.

Farage only slightly More So.

Anonymous said...

The English deserve all the immigration they are getting for poking their noses into all parts of the world during the 18th and 19th centuries, invading and killing people, looting their wealth, and setting up dysfunctional oligarchic institutions. As those formerly colonized countries recover economically, the tide of emigration/immigration will eventually turn.

German_reader said...

@Glaivester

"but if I were British I'd be leaning toward BNP and folks like Nick Griffin."

Nick Griffin and the BNP are too toxic, there's always been a whiff of neo-nazism about them and their attempts at changing their image aren't very convincing. Not saying Griffin's been wrong about everything (he spoke out about Pakistani grooming gangs when everyone else ignored the issue) but you can't really build a successful political movement with people who have barely concealed sympathies for Nazism. Such people are doing the left's work and just playing into the hands of the antifa-crowd.

jaakkeli said...

I don't think Farage is truly breaching any establishment taboos. He dutifully follows all established limits of discourse on immigration so it's all about "Romanians and Bulgarians" when we all know what the real issue is. Farage will never, ever risk his clean image by going further.

The UKIP is mainly about the EU and that's not a taboo at all. The UK has just had it shoved out of politics by the two party system when both parties went with the EU. Plenty of anti-EU parties have won elections in other countries without anyone noticing and it's only the unthinkable sin of specifically talking about African, Middle Eastern and South Asian/gypsy immigration that makes the establishment jump.

As much as I've loved his speeches against unelected uncharismatic eurocrats they're easy and safe targets and I don't foresee Farage actually stretching that boundary of PC.

Anonymous said...

The English deserve all the immigration they are getting for poking their noses into all parts of the world during the 18th and 19th centuries, invading and killing people, looting their wealth, and setting up dysfunctional oligarchic institutions. As those formerly colonized countries recover economically, the tide of emigration/immigration will eventually turn.

What about the 17th century?

Also, what about the Spanish? Surely they deserve a similar judgement?

Anonymous said...

Isn't it bizarre how some of the progressive set in Europe seems so thoroughly Americanized? "German reader" is spot on-it was the first "WTF" moment I had watching when Clegg went veering off onto Democratic Party soundbites. Pussy Riot seems like something straight out of Portland or Austin.

A commenter over at Dreher's columan at TAC pointed out how the French can really sense this. His example was the huge turnout against all that gender/critical theory stuff being pushed on the school system there: "The French are getting their first taste of American-style identity politics and they don't like it one bit."

countenance said...

I wouldn't call Farage an ethnonationalist. To me, he's just a little more conservative than a typical American conservative Republican in the U.S. House.

The reason UKIP will do way better in MEP elections this year than in UK parliamentary elections this year is because MEP elections use a modified proportional representation system called D'Hondt, while the domestic elections are first past the post. With proportional systems, voting for a non-major party isn't a wasted vote, therefore, people who are so inclined will do so. Once next year comes, they'll mostly fall in line with one of the UK's 2.5 major parties, because FPTP disincentivized voting for non-major parties.

Anonymous said...

Farage is better than nothing, and a lot better than the Conservatives. Even if they don't win election, as a credible second or third party they legitimize a lot of the anti-immigration sentiment. They give it airtime. It will only increase the feelings and political action against immigration.

Also note the internet poll results of who won the debate - currently 92.6% for Farage.

German_reader said...

"What would be examples of british conspiracy theories?"

Don't know (I'm not British myself after all though I have family connections to Britain), maybe the British establishment and the US cooperating with the IRA to kill Airey Neave (I think Enoch Powell claimed something along those lines)? Or from more recent times, New Labour deliberately engineering mass immigration to "rub the right's nose in diversity" (but then it's not really a conspiracy theory if it's actually true, is it?).
Anyway, the main point is that there seems to be very little of traditional Britishness in any meaningful sense about Clegg. His family background is largely continental European, when asked about what defines Britain he comes up with meaningless cliches like "talking about the weather" (something Somalis and Pakistanis can probably aspire too without too many problems) and his points of reference as shown in the debate with Farage come from US liberal demonology (evil tea partiers questioning Obama's citizienship, as if this had any relevance for the UK). The man is a cosmopolitan globalist through and through.

Anonymous said...

What would be examples of british conspiracy theories?

Griffin controlled by MI5 and(less often) the same for Farage.

Silver said...

"The English deserve all the immigration they are getting for poking their noses into all parts of the world during the 18th and 19th centuries, invading and killing people, looting their wealth, and setting up dysfunctional oligarchic institutions."

In other words immigration really is every bit as bad as immigration restrictionists say it is. The only difference is that you believe immigration being bad is a very good thing. So nice of you to come clean.

"As those formerly colonized countries recover economically, the tide of emigration/immigration will eventually turn."

Yes, as Africa "recovers" its former economic glory, lolz. What planet do you lunatics live on?

Miguel S. said...

They were pretty even for the first 20 minutes or so. Then Farage pulled ahead, and by the end it was obvious to everyone that he'd won. He won because Clegg tried to make Farage the issue instead of arguing his case.

The most important moment was when Farage explained that immigration is not primarily an economic issue. The question (to paraphrase Peter Brimelow) is: why do pro-immigration politicians want to turn Britain into Bulgaria? I want to see an American politician stating the obvious too.

SFG said...

"I don't think Farage is truly breaching any establishment taboos. He dutifully follows all established limits of discourse on immigration so it's all about "Romanians and Bulgarians" when we all know what the real issue is. Farage will never, ever risk his clean image by going further.

The UKIP is mainly about the EU and that's not a taboo at all. The UK has just had it shoved out of politics by the two party system when both parties went with the EU. Plenty of anti-EU parties have won elections in other countries without anyone noticing and it's only the unthinkable sin of specifically talking about African, Middle Eastern and South Asian/gypsy immigration that makes the establishment jump.

As much as I've loved his speeches against unelected uncharismatic eurocrats they're easy and safe targets and I don't foresee Farage actually stretching that boundary of PC."

It's an interesting question. Do you see Farage's approach as likely to be more effective than Griffin's?

Glaivester: if you're pro-Israel for some reason, England's not a major supporter anyway, so I wouldn't worry. Besides, I think the Brits need to clean up their own house before worrying about other countries. To be quite frank, I doubt another Holocaust is in the offing--and the Muslims are more likely to start it than the Brits.

Smartest thing, IMHO, would be to slam shut the gates and do their level best to turn everyone they can't deport into Englishmen. It actually worked pretty well over here until 1950 or so.

Bert said...

Bulgaria is a poor country, but it has a very rich history and a strong Christian faith. Britain turning into Bulgaria would frankly be an improvement.

Anonymous said...

OT (Belongs in the Ivy League Admissions thread, but that's now dead).

Black Sailer fan here.

1500+ SAT, 750+ on 4 SAT II Subject Tests (Math IIc, Writing, Chemistry, Biology), 4 5's and 5 4's on various AP tests, 3.9 GPA (unweighted).

Applied to every ivy but Brown (oh, the irony), was accepted to all. Discussing this with other similarly qualified black students (we all found each other, and quickly), across-the-board acceptances weren't uncommon.

irishman said...

The best British conspiracy theory I'm aware of is that Harold Wilson(Labour prime minister in 60s and 70s) was a KGB agent. Not beyond the farthest reaches of possibility.

Wilson spawned all kinds of conspriacy theories. His conspiracy theories even have their own wikipedia page.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Wilson_conspiracy_theories

ben tillman said...

The English deserve all the immigration they are getting for poking their noses into all parts of the world during the 18th and 19th centuries, invading and killing people, looting their wealth, and setting up dysfunctional oligarchic institutions.

"The English" did not no such thing; their rulers did. And those rulers weren't very English. Victoria's mother was German-born; her husband was her first cousin also from Germany. Key imperialist figures included Jews like Disraeli (prime minister)and Reuters (communications) and Oppenheimer and Sassoon (merchants whose interests the empire served).

Anonymous said...

To that ignorant poster who said that "the English deserve all the immigration they are getting" as some kind of historical punishment (and btw, thanks for inadvertently admitting that it is a bad thing for them), who can Europe go to for some payback for the introduction of the Black Death in the 14th century? It was brought in from Asia and may have wiped out a third to a half of the continent.

Anonymous said...

"The English deserve all the immigration for their invasions in the 18th century"...

But at least those people tried to fight back. So why can't the English today have the exact same right?

Opium Tea and Sugar said...

Exactly who do you think directed the British Empire?

See David Sassoon, see Benjamin Disraeli...see who paid Oliver Cromwell too.

Opium Tea and Sugar said...

Really he should be debating Cameron.

Clegg is just a Human Shield

Anonymous said...

Another Banker jumps which could be a prelude to Farage.

Hunsdon said...

Our host has talked about how "the English aren't cool"---and indeed, I suffer from a mild form of this myself, taking more pride in my Celtic strands. I remember, as a youth, being somewhat shocked when what I'd thought was a solid Irish name (no, Hunsdon is only a nom du plume, I hate to admit) was solidly English in origin.

Several years ago Dennis Mangan posted this youtube clip, from a British cop show. The speaker was, of course, the villain---I'm not sure what his crimes were, but I'm sure they were heinous and directed against those who George H. W. Bush referred to as "our little brown ones" (or as Taft referred to as "our little brown brothers," whichever).

For a piece of agitprop, it had a certain (see, Takuan, I was listening!) boomerang quality, as it summed up, for me, a nearly palpable image of England, of an England now gone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9QtXiYFLYs

Robert the Wise said...

"Anonymous said...

The English deserve all the immigration they are getting for poking their noses into all parts of the world during the 18th and 19th centuries, invading and killing people, looting their wealth, and setting up dysfunctional oligarchic institutions. As those formerly colonized countries recover economically, the tide of emigration/immigration will eventually turn."



ANTI-BRITISH RESISTANCE LEADER (played by John Cleese): What have the Brits done for us?

INDIAN WIDOW: They kept me from being burned alive after my husband died by outlawing sutee.

RESISTANCE LEADER: Alright, aside from outlawing sutee, what have the Brits done for us?

INDIAN MAN: They destroyed the Thugee Cult and killed all the bandits so the roads are safe to travel.

RESISTANCE LEADER: Alright, but aside from outlawing sutee, killing bandits and Thugees, and making travel safe, what have the British done for us?

INDIAN ORPHAN: Created Christian charities and orphanages that took me in and took care of me.

RESISTANCE LEADER: Alright, but aside from outlawing sutee, killing bandits and Thugees, making travel safe, and introducing Christian charity into a Hindu country, what have the Brits done for us?

INDIAN MAN: Railroads, modern technology, clean water, modern medicine, and rule of law, and toilets.

RESISTANCE LEADER: Alright but aside from...

I think you get the picture.

And that's just what they did in India.

Where would you rather live, even today, India or the UK?


Hail Britannia, motherfucker!

Robert the Wise said...

" Miguel S. said...

They were pretty even for the first 20 minutes or so. Then Farage pulled ahead, and by the end it was obvious to everyone that he'd won. He won because Clegg tried to make Farage the issue instead of arguing his case."


Clegg has no case to argue, so all he can do is make personal attacks, just like American Leftists.

What could Clegg possibly say?

"I'm intentionally importing hostile foreigners in order to lower your wages to benefit my masters in the Ruling Class. Vote for me!"

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

C'mon nerds, don't over-think this. Of course Farage won. He's eloquent and charismatic, and has great style.

Svigor said...

If anyone can become English, can any piece of territory around the world become England?

Are national and territorial ideas independent of their material basis and origins or are they meaningless when entirely cut off from their material roots?


Nope. Meaning, leftists/globalists think land is more important, more sacred, than people, and nations are about land, not people.

The English deserve all the immigration they are getting for poking their noses into all parts of the world during the 18th and 19th centuries, invading and killing people, looting their wealth, and setting up dysfunctional oligarchic institutions. As those formerly colonized countries recover economically, the tide of emigration/immigration will eventually turn.

So, you admit that mass immigration of your kind and the rest are a disaster for us.

Thanks. I wish we could get all of our kind to agree to that. It'd be a short distance from there to agreeing that we don't deserve to be destroyed.

What about the 17th century?

Oh, please. By his logic the non-white world deserves annihilation long before the white world does. Mongoloids, for example, deserve genocide for what their ancestors did.

Anonymous said...

I watched the second of the TV debates, broadcast on the BBC and moderated by David Dimbleby.

What struck me most was the sheer aggression and rudeness of Nick Clegg - who had obviously been coached to deliberately 'go for the jugular' in an attempt to unsettle Mr. Farage. It was quite horrible to watch Nick Clegg's bad manners and low breeding coming out, and I cringed at the sheer nastiness and evil of the man. To his credit, Nigel Farage never once rose to the provocation, kept his cool and his head, and acted like the perfect gentleman throughout.

- The British political establishment is getting seriously rattled by UKIP and Nigel Farage, they know full well that UKIP are on th verge of something big - that their meassage accords on a deep level with the collective minds of the ethnically British public. Put simply, ethnic Brits don't want to be rendered as an ethnic minority in the land of their own ancestors, and most of them have finally awakened to the fact that if the political class has its way for just another couple of decades, this fate surely awaits them. Finally they have found a credible leader, (Nigel Farage), and a credible political movement, (UKIP unlike the BNP).

Of course, in the main, this the backlash against New Labour's policy of massive, unrestricted , uncontrolled immigration which was foisted upon Britain. That it was adeliberate, malign policy is in no doubt - just google up the 'Andrew Neather affair'.
New Labour did this partly to ensure permanent, perpetual political power - which no doubt will happen in the near future. In the meantime, British politics ahve been shaken up out of their stasis in a way not seen for a century. The Liberals and the Tories are likely to be the big losers.

Anonymous said...

Anoonymous 3:16,

Nick Clegg is 'Big Chief Shitting Bull".

Anonymous said...

On my last trip to the Uk, I was surprised at the immigrant population working in the hotel industry.

Seemed like there were a couple of Estonian desk clerks and there were Polish girls cleaning rooms in one of the hotels.

I realize that a lot of the issue is immigration from former former colonies.

But, A country could do a lot worse than immigration from the Baltics and former Warsaw Pact countries.

Simon in London said...

Yes, I think UKIP have now passed the credibility threshold fairly decisively, it would be very difficult now to put them back in the box.
That said, A UKIP chap was telling me the other day that UKIP still lacks the kind of grass roots presence they need for a real electoral breakthrough. The reason the BNP was successful for a good while, despite racial Fascism's limited appeal to the British electorate, was their consistent efforts at grass roots level. On a larger scale this is what the Tories and Labour have too - the Lib Dems only have it in fringe areas such as Cornwall and the Scottish Highlands, where they function as a kind of anti-Saxon party (Scotland's SNP draws more from Scots-dialect areas, anti-English Protestant Anglo-Saxons as in Abeerdeenshire).

UKIP people tend to be ex-Tory men in late middle age, middle to upper middle class. The Conservatives benefit from grass roots of lower middle class women willing to do leafleting, upper middle class women ready to serve as councillors, and aristocratic young men ambitious for a political career who give leadership and direction at local level.
UKIP needs to develop some form of grass roots to be competitive in Westminster elections. But they are very uncomfortable with working class support that often looks ethnonationalist, the 'racist' smear. And middle class women are bandwagoners who won't join them until they're already successful & established. Plus their whole ethos based around the national question seems hostile to establishment at local govt level, the necessary precursor to Parliamentary representation.

All that said, I wouldn't be too surprised to see one or two UKIP MPs in Westminster in 2015, which would be a huge boost to the party.

Simon in London said...

Hunsdon:
>>For a piece of agitprop, it had a certain (see, Takuan, I was listening!) boomerang quality, as it summed up, for me, a nearly palpable image of England, of an England now gone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9QtXiYFLYs<<

Thanks - been trying to relocate that for a while.

Simon in London said...

>> Hunsdon said...
Our host has talked about how "the English aren't cool"---and indeed, I suffer from a mild form of this myself, taking more pride in my Celtic strands. I remember, as a youth, being somewhat shocked when what I'd thought was a solid Irish name (no, Hunsdon is only a nom du plume, I hate to admit) was solidly English in origin.<<

Heh, I had the opposite. My father's family is solidly English, but I always assumed my Protestant Northern Irish mother's side would be mostly Scottish, & maybe English. Nope - from everything I can find they are entirely native to Ireland. Gave me a bit of a new perspective.

I'm proud of both sides, and it seems to me that people with Irish/Celtic blood are often more ready to advocate for the English than are the pureblood English themselves, who can be a bit too diffident & civilised to defend their own existence. Tommy Robinson was a good example.

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...

I suspect that Farage will soon jump off a building in London or something.

4/5/14, 3:47 PM"

Or the maniac with handgun, or the drunk driving car crash, or the sudden cancer.

Perhaps he would be wise not to be too effective.

Gordo

Shawn the Mouse of the Blogosphere said...

Remember how Ron Paul kept winning polls and then lost the election?

Anonymous said...

This back and forth about the British Empire is all nonsense.

The former British Empire wouldn't really be much better off if it were never colonised and Britain wouldn't necessarily be worse off.
The amount of violence, war and deaths under the British Empire compared to before is not significantly different.

Britain's wealth comes from its culture, ability and historical technological capacity. It has much to do with the sort of forces that produced Newton and Brunel and only a little if at all to do with those that made Clive and Mountbatten.

We all know this. It is only silly postcolonialists who believe in a "Year Zero" where before the British Empire there was some kind of native states that were even slightly on a par with Europe that don't. Why engage with them?

Anonymous said...

Farage is a good speaker with a wicked tongue.Watch him on the european stage lambasting his old mate "rumpy pumpy".
However,the establishment don't like him and certainly american politicians hate him because he is anti-wars and has a sneaking regard for Putin,who rightly or wrongly,at least sticks up for his own people,is vaguely more religious than the average person,by that I mean he allows
diversity of religion and is anti
feminism.
The problem with Farage is that he is a master of the one topic and we know nothing much about all his
views on other weighty topics.
He also comes across as a one man band and the so called philosophers of the day seem not to be impressed with him and he therefor does not command the kind of support he needs.However,we do have Mike Buchanan the MRA standing at the next election and he could use all the support you can give him.Is there anybody in the USA similar or are they all feminist to a man.

Luke Lea said...

Re: immigration restriction

Whether in Britain or the United States there is only one possible form of immigration restriction which cannot accused of being racist, sexist, anti-gay, or anything else bad: an across-the-board moratorium (pause, timout) on all further immigration from all countries until Britain (or US or any other Western society) can assimilate and integrate the millions of foreign born in their midst, the overwhelming majority of whom come from societies with no, or very weak, democratic traditions.

During this period -- which realistically will require at least two generations -- the more general question, hitherto completely ignored, needs to be explored, namely, is emigration to the West good for the development of relatively undeveloped societies and the people left behind.

Seize the moral high ground.

SFG said...

C'mon jock, don't underthink this. Farage won because the Brits are sick of the EU.

Anonymous said...

The most common British conspiracy theories concern the death of Princess Diana.

Rohan Swee said...

Clegg was unbeleivably bad playing the "pink card" four times and Farage ignored him each time.

Farage gives a good lesson here in "not taking the bait" - a critical part of debating discipline entirely absent in U.S. conservatives.

Anonymous said...

"The English deserve all the immigration they are getting for poking their noses into all parts of the world during the 18th and 19th centuries, invading and killing people, looting their wealth, and setting up dysfunctional oligarchic institutions. As those formerly colonized countries recover economically, the tide of emigration/immigration will eventually turn."

"What about the 17th century?" - My thoughts exactly: Had the British treated America the way they treated their colonies in the 19th century we wouldn't have rebelled against their rule.

General Cornwallis said...

Do you have any ancestors who were actually involved? Are you the progeny?

Also the Colonists were treated very nicely. The elite smugglers and merchants were treated well. The issue it seems was respecting the rights of injuns and Quebec Catholics.

If anything Parliament was pretty Fugging benign. The pretzel logic of the Baptist/Presbyterian bigots who drew up the constitution never ceases to amuse.

General Cornwallis said...

Battenberg, I think that's what you mean.

General Cornwallis said...

This is the suspicion about Farage. They are hostile to the Balts. Actual Balts. Not the Old Estonians.

Farage is more apt to bitch about Eastern Euro peasants than about blacks or Pakistanis. He says 90% of the right things but then misdirects the listener to think he's dog whistling. He's still talking in a way that gives him plausible deniability on race and migration.

Honestly, we could do a lot worse than have a bunch of migrants from the Baltic.

General Cornwallis said...

Thing is I really do love India.

That's what is odd about it. The British do genuinely adore exotic cultures. But I really don't want my Island overrun with Foreigns.

Sean said...

Clegg thought he was a silver tongued charmer after he did extremely well for himself and his party prior to the last election in debates with the Lab and Con party's leaders, who made a mistake in letting him participate on equal terms when they didn't have to.

Clegg made that same mistake himself with Farage.

Around London is where the rich hypercapitalist elite live, and also where the real estate speculation and its associated nexus are, that nexus is the only real source of economic growth in the UK. The Canadian recruited as head of the bank of England is a known specialist in pumping up the housing market. The housing market and service industry boom stems from the London hypercapitalist elite's wealth and consumption. No government can restrict immigration without lowering house prices.

London is the Helmand province of the UK. And a dangerous place for any representative of the country as a whole.The establishment will take UKIP down just like they took the BNP down (it was virtually bankrupted by legal cases). They are already saying that UKIP is a far right party. Fascist in other words.

UKIP is the Conservative party's SDLP (the paty founded by exLabour figures which split the Labour vote) in the 80's and was a very important factor in Thatcher's electoral success.)

We will get a Labour government and another round of Labour rubbing the right's nose in diversity via immigration.

Anonymous said...

The British Empire was in fact the Rothschild Empire:

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2012/08/free-to-cheat-jewish-emancipation-and-the-anglo-jewish-cousinhood-part-2/

Revilo Oviler noticed that many British aristocratic families married with jewish bankers and merchants by the end of the 19th century, David Cameron's family has this background:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_David_Cameron#Finance

Anonymous said...

One big difference between UKIP and the BNP is that the BNP are economically very left wing, with no problems with having a welfare state (for Brits) or high state spend (on Brits) whereas UKIP are much more libertarian/small state/low tax/free market.

Now you'd think that would make them more of a target for the far left "anti-fascists" than the BNP, not less of one. But they aren't. Most odd.

The possibilities that spring to mind are
1) the left are happy to watch UKIP shear away Tory support and give Labour a victory in 2015
2) that somehow a flat-tax party doesn't present such a problem to whoever's pulling the "anti-fascist" strings.

I think the answer might be a bit of both, but if the desired end-game is an elite of wealthy, intelligent, well-connected people ruling an atomised polity of competing interest groups - well, the UK is almost there, demographically. They only need to wait for those babies to grow up. After that, abolish the welfare state and "job's a good 'un" as we say over here.

Sean said...

STEVE, you might have looked a bit more closely the above that that references Revilo Oliver, who I mentioned (for his height) in a comment you did not pass. this comment. Your own posts hit the right note on this stuff.

Hunsdon said...

Simon in London said: I'm proud of both sides, and it seems to me that people with Irish/Celtic blood are often more ready to advocate for the English than are the pureblood English themselves, who can be a bit too diffident & civilised to defend their own existence. Tommy Robinson was a good example.

Hunsdon said: George Macdonald Fraser wrote something similar. He also noticed that in Scotland he was regarded as English, and in England as a Scot.

My family is English, Scottish, Irish and German, and if I didn't think the English were cool when I was younger, I am very proud of all the strains now. (And it has nothing to do with "Cool Britannia" of course!)

About that youtube clip: it was a lot easier to find this time than it was about eighteen months ago, the last time I tracked it down.

reiner Tor said...

Farage explained that immigration is not primarily an economic issue

That is great!

The first time a more or less mainstream politician talking on TV making this very very important point.

Cogswell said...

What's interesting (though not surprising) about the Left in Britain is that neither leftwing party - Lib Dems or Labour - has chosen a leader who identifies with or even much respects English/British culture. Labour leader Milband is the son of Eastern European Jews whose immigrant, Communist father was quite derisive of the native English. Clegg has implied he holds a fairly condescending view of native Brits. His grandfather was an Englishman who married a Russian. In turn, his father married a Dutchwoman, and Clegg's own wife is Spanish, while their children all have Spanish names (Alberto, Miguel, Antonio). These are the men who lead the British Left. Does anyone think their derisive, condescending views of their own countrymen and their culture won't include policies that are deliberately harmful to the British people's best interests?

Anonymous said...

Hunsdon, that is not an Englishman, that's a toff.

Anonymous said...

Speaking as a Brit:

It isn't the Eastern Europeans that we object to. They have mixed in very well, and if we had a labour shortage they'd be my immigrant labourers of choice.

The real issue has been our African and Pakistani immigrants. They commit way more crime per capita, and moan constantly that their failures are due to our racism. Which strangely doesn't seem to affect the Indians,Jews, Chinese or middle class Nigerians we have here.

One very true statement in the comments was that we don't want to be a minority in our own country. In the 14 years since I left London there has been a demographic swing, and it doesn't feel like it's in England anymore. I think this has been what has spooked the British people.